Today reader Ian McKee, whose blog handle is 45Bravo, starts telling us about shooting some big bore air rifles. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, Ian
Big bore plinking: Part One
by Ian McKee
The .357 Texan by AirForce is a super long-distance plinker!
This report covers:
- The backstory
- The learning curve and the light bulb moment
- Loading
- The secret
- Shooting steel (my favorite!)
- Summary
This is the first of at least two parts, and this is the long version. I promise the others will be shorter, as the testing you are about to read has been going on for a few months with two AirForce Texans at the same time.
The backstory
As I have mentioned in a recent blog, for decades I was stuck in a rut shooting .177 and .22 caliber airguns. And I was blissfully happy doing so. Suddenly I found myself in possession of a .25 caliber JTS Airacuda Max. I liked the gun, but wasn’t too enthusiastic about the caliber.
I knew of the benefits of moving to the larger caliber such as more down range energy, plus a slightly larger frontal area to help transfer that energy to the target. And it has ability to buck the wind a little better than .22 at longer ranges. It took a little while, but I learned to embrace the .25 for certain applications.
Then I came into possession of a .357 caliber AirForce Texan. I bought a tin of .357 JSB pellets and figured I would step out of my comfort zone. On paper it shot okay — accurate enough for hunting at 50 yards or less. But it was nothing to write home about in the accuracy compartment from 50 yards to 100 yards — especially when compared to my .22 caliber airguns at those distances.
I found myself wondering what the hoopla was about the big bore guns except for hunting. It has to shoot better than this. I then decided to challenge myself to attempt to squeeze the best accuracy I could get from a USED AirForce Texan that I knew nothing about.
The learning curve and the light bulb moment
I recorded the setting of the power wheel, so I had a baseline performance to always return to when things didn’t go as planned. I tried several pellets and off the shelf slugs without knowing what I should be looking for in a projectile. I wasn’t worried about max power, I just wanted the best accuracy. After chronographing several different projectiles. I was getting velocity numbers all over the place and thought my Texan had a serious problem.
Loading
I then switched from pressing the projectile into the rifling as hard as possible, until the base of the projectile was as close to flush with the back of the barrel as it would go to inserting the slug until it was just seated, but could still be withdrawn with a fingernail. The velocity numbers stabilized and a light bulb came on in my head. This is just like reloading cartridges.
I realized that the diameter and weight of the projectile, the twist rate of the barrel and the velocities I was getting are all about the same as a .38 special handgun, so why not treat it as one?
I asked a friend of mine to cast some 125-grain pure lead semi-wadcutters using a Lee #90574 358-125-RF bullet mold he had on hand. You see, he shoots cowboy action competition as well as airguns. The projectiles as they come from the mold are .359 diameter, but after running through a sizing die they measure .358 (like a pellet sizer it makes all of the projectiles the same diameter.)
I tried some of them as cast at .359. They performed better than pellets and the off-the-shelf airgun ammo. But once I found the correct velocity setting the .358-sized projectiles started to shine.
I had started with max power velocity over 1000 fps, and was getting 6 inch groups at 100 yards. Once I dropped down into the 860-900 fps range the groups started to look promising, but still had a lot of fliers I could not account for.
The secret
I got to thinking of the barrel time of the projectile and the recoil generated by this rifle. So I switched from having the rifle resting directly on a sandbag, to the artillery hold with the back of my hand resting on the bag. Suddenly this became a whole new rifle.
After about a month or so of not being able to use an outdoor range that could handle the big bores, this last weekend a group of us got together. Shooting everything from springers and PCP’s to black powder muzzle loading rifles and revolvers. (A future blog on the muzzleloader is coming soon.) In the south we call it “run what you brung.”
Checking the zero of the .357 Texan, my first group was three shots almost touching at 50 yards. Then my fourth shot opened the group to 1.92 inches. Mulling this over I realized I had held on the wrong Mil-dot of my scope for the fourth shot.
It started off so well, then I used the wrong Mil-dot.
I moved to a different aim point on the target, and put five shots into 1.08 inches with four shots in .68 of an inch at 50 yards. Now we are cooking!
Much better, five shots in 1.08 inches at 50 yards.
Shooting steel (my favorite!)
Almost everyone was shooting steel targets ranging in size from 1-inch diameter to 6 inches and from 25 to 200 yards. The largest caliber air gun on the range other than the Texans was a .30 caliber Umarex Gauntlet. The Gauntlet could ring the steel with much greater authority than the .22 and .25 caliber airguns, but for sheer foot pounds on steel, it was no match for the .357. (Note: The Gauntlet .30 caliber generates about 100 foot pounds, and the .357 Texan generates over 200 foot pounds)
I was able to hit 2 inch x 4 inch steel targets from 25 yards to 125 yards with no problem. With hold overs I was able to connect with the 200 yard 6 inch steel plate twice.
Everyone had a chance to shoot the .357, and they all had a good time ringing and swinging the steel. That was something that the lesser calibers could not accomplish.
Summary
While I have found what I consider to be the favorite bullet for my .357 Texan at this point in time, I still want to explore other .38 caliber lead handgun projectiles in this rifle to see if any other sleepers are hiding in the weeds. I am particularly looking at projectiles you can cast at home to be self-sufficient or reduce the cost per projectile from retail — or bullets you can pick up at almost any outlet that carries reloading supplies.
I realize big bore airguns were designed for hunting, and are suggested to take game at reasonable distances. I want to explore the other side of the coin because it is not always hunting season, and shooting big bore airguns is FUN!
Come join the big bores, they aren’t just for hunting anymore!
Shoot safe, and have FUN!
Ian
“I realized that the diameter and weight of the projectile, the twist rate of the barrel and the velocities I was getting are all about the same as a .38 special handgun, so why not treat it as one?”
Ian,
As someone who has done a lot of loading of .38 SPL and .357 cartridges (for a 6″ S&W model 686), that was something to which I could totally relate…great lightbulb moment…I like it. 😉
Looking forward to the next part,
dave
Ian,
What about the cost of shooting a big bore?
Not a fan of the “new and improved” format. It is neither!!
-Yogi
If you are into reloading or fishing and cast your own bullets or fishing weights you are ahead of the game.
The cost of the lead can be free if you scrounge the lead and mold your own.
If not you can buy the necessary equipment and can recoup the cost in savings from not having to pay retail plus shipping for slugs.
That is going to be part of this series, reducing cost.
Slugs can be expensive, I have paid $63 for a hundred from one manufacturer just to write some of this research I am doing.
Ian
Yogi,
I do have to agree with you concerning the “new” format. It is truly horrible.
As for the cost of shooting a big bore, it will depend on the big bore. If you have a big bore that only fills to 3000 PSI, you can fill it with a hand pump. It is true that these things are air hogs and you do not get many shots, but when you pop these things off, you are far more capable of bringing down some pretty big targets that most sensible folks would not even think of popping with those itty bitty teenie weenie pellets.
Yes, you are going to want to fill these things with a compressor and/or tank. These will raise the initial cost considerably. I have searched around and seen some that are quite reasonably priced.
The airguns themselves are not the cheapest ones in the world, although the price of some will be most affordable this year. Do they have the quality? I do not know.
I was thinking I would get a .25 or .30, but maybe I should get a .357 for my next PCP! LGS has a Bulldog that’s been on the shelf for a while…..
I second Yogi on the “new and improved” format.
OP,
I shot the Bulldog when it first came out. Eh. There is a reason that has been on the shelf so long.
OhioPlinker,
“I was thinking I would get a .25 or .30, but maybe I should get a .357 for my next PCP!” Why?
Do you know why you would jump from probably .22 all the way to a .357 caliber?
If you want to plink at longer ranges the .308/7.65 is ballistically much better and typically cheaper. With the correct airgun and tune you can get 200+ FPE shooting 130 grain bullets (slugs) or a 155 grain spitzer and challenge Ton’s Record Shot: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2023/09/ton-jones-beats-billy-dixon-a-world-record/
if you want to hunt check your states or hunting location’s minimum caliber/energy/Mass regulations for various game.
Lastly the .308/7.65 has the most commercial bullet choice as well as the most choice of bullet molds.
Shootski
IT Department,
The new format confused me when I first saw it. It might look good on a cellphone screen but it comes out too elementary (?) with large fonts when I use my desktop/laptop.
Siraniko
from someone who reads the blog on a cell phone, i liked the old format better.
Ian,
Looks like a good intro why anybody would want to go into bigbore shooting. I’m just curious by what you meant in section Loading first sentence, “I then switched from pressing the projectile into the rifling as hard as possible, until the base of the projectile was as close to flush with the back of the barrel as it would go to inserting the slug until it was just seated, but could still be withdrawn with a fingernail.” So at first you pressed the projectile into the rifling then you switched to just seating the rear of the projectile flush to the end of the barrel?
Siraniko
When we load pellets in the barrels of an Airgun, we always put them in until the back of the slug or pellet seat flush with the rear of the barrel.
The Texan has a loading tray that the slug rests in, I just slide the slug forward until the front of the slug would just engages the rifling, enough to hold it in place,
Since I had no previous experience with the AirForce Texan, I was thinking we had to do that in the Texan.
But in asking some people that are very knowledgeable about the Texans, they all said “no, just seat it until it stops, you don’t have to force anything.”
In forcing the slugs into the rifling, I could not always get the slug to seat to the same depth.
So that was changing the overall length of my “cartridge” on every shot.
Which is something that will truly affect accuracy.
Hope this helps.
Ian
Ian,
Thanks for clarifying. Is paper patching applicable to slugs?
Siraniko
That I do not know.
I have never really considered it for an Airgun slug.
I have done it on black powder cartridges before.
Like I said, I am new to the big bore airgun scene.
Ian
Siraniko,
As a general rule Big Bore rifle/rifled pistol shooters do not paper or cloth patch their projectiles.
Bore size matching, however is critical for precision shooting.
Shootski
Thanks for the well-done report Ian. When are we going to see you try to beat the long distance record that that Ton video documented a while back? 😉
It is interesting that the hold you described (artillery?) made such a significant difference. I too have found that that technique (or something close to it) helped improve my accuracy. This shows that practicing and developing that technique isn’t necessarily just to improve one’s accuracy when shooting springer type air guns. It appears to be applicable to the other types as well.
Elmer, I doubt anytime soon.
I lack the skill, the luck and the funds to even attempt that feat.
1.1 miles, hitting an 18 x 18 inch target, with a sub sonic airgun.
Think about that.
The longest sniper shot (in a war zone) with a precision firearm I have found online is 2.2 miles.
He was able to hit a target at half that distance, with a Airgun that cost about 1/4 of the firearm, and with a projectile traveling less than 1/3 the velocity the firearm produced.
Ton has set a milestone, but like all records, someone already has their sights set on beating that…
Ian..
I’m not sure what you all mean by the new format. On my phone things look the same as yesterday, that is, really small text. That doesn’t reflow when I zoom. So for me, I would welcome a change.
Elmer
My humble opinion is consistency of hold is even more beneficial to shooting small groups than any type of hold. The artillery hold is one effective way to get a consistent hold but some guns are hard to minimize shaking while getting the sear to release using an artillery hold. Others with heavy recoil dare you to hold loosely.
Deck
Agreed, consistency and learning how to not impart any influence on the natural motion of the gun’s recoil are keys to better accuracy. How loosely it is held is part of it. But I think it is possible to have a good hold and still let it recoil without significant undue influence on that recoil motion.
“ But I think it is possible to have a good hold and still let it recoil without significant undue influence on that recoil motion.”
Yessir!
Deck
Elmer Fudd,
The “…natural motion of the gun’s recoil…” at some point in Big Bores becomes large enough that it needs to be constrained or it will become hazardous to the shooter. Each Big Bore airgun, the air charge ENERGY potential, and the projectile Mass determine that point.
Note that caliber in and of itself does not play into quantity of recoil directly.
shootski
Yes, I agree Shootski. It isn’t easy to communicate some things well enough so that everyone understands exactly what is meant. My (novice) mental picture of the technique that seems to work well for me goes as follows. Shooting off a sandbag with my offhand resting on the sandbag and the forearm of the gun on the palm of my offhand, I try to find a point on the forearm near the balance point of the gun that seems to work well and that I can consistently find and use. Once I have myself in position and the target in the sights, the safety is disengaged (if need be). I have both elbows supported on the table (use another sandbag if needed), both feet flat on the floor, and the butt of the stock in the same place on my shoulder. Fine tuning the aim includes adjusting any gun cant out by slightly shifting the position of the forearm as it rests on the palm of my offhand, letting gravity be the only force (other than perhaps some small amount of friction from my shoulder) holding the gun in place. Then place my finger on the trigger and squeeze straight back while maintaining the aim on the target. Sometimes, I will close the fingers and thumb of the offhand to very lightly grip the forearm while being careful not to add any force. The goal is to be as relaxed as possible when the trigger is pulled so that the recoil will not be adversely influenced by any forces that I might inadvertently applying at the moment it is fired. I think that restraining a strong recoil, as necessary, can happen by instinct after the moment the gun is fired. I try to focus on the above preparations until the moment the gun is fired. I think that follow-through (keeping the aim on target after the shot) should be easier if no adverse pressures are being applied at the moment the gun is fired. This seems to work for me. I am getting better and more consistent using these methods.
Decksniper,
“Others with heavy recoil dare you to hold loosely.”
TOTALLY! °^∅ ouch!
shootski
I too, don’t care for the latest change, horizontal scrolling is not as intuitive as vertical scrolling. The link is only the “Read More” black stripe. It was more intuitive when you could click the Title and/or the picture. It looks better on a cell phone but still the link is only the “Read More” black stripe.
Mike
BMWS
I just clicked on BB’s head shot and it brought me right here. Wasn’t really sure where “read more” was going to take me. Didn’t have to find out, tho.
Ed
Enjoyable read; while not a PCP big-bore, have enjoyed the shooting experience with the HW90 in .25 – wish there were more open space around here for this boomer to try out one of these air-boomers at distances that would do it justice. FM will put at least shooting one – even if not purchasing it – in his RMBL – Rubber Mulch Bucket List.
As for the new blog format…very interesting.
FM,
If you show up at the next NC Airgun Show, I will give you the opportunity to shoot a Texan LSS in .457.
Now you’re making it more difficult for FM NOT to show up but, appreciate that! And, who knows, might pick up another nice Maximus. 😉
Not if I get there first!
Ian,
I do so much wish to see/hear/read more of your personal adventures with the .357 Texan. I have a .457 Texan LSS with the CF tank and TX2 valve living here at RRHFWA. Golly gee whiz this thing sure uses a lot of air.
I have only played with it a little bit, but so far, I have found that at the lower power wheel settings I am getting inconsistent air usage. I am going to take it back up and see what it does with accuracy. I also have two different cast bullets/slugs to try out and will likely try a few others before all is said and done. I have been told by others that the .457 Texan likes around 350 grains. You are very likely onto something with treating that .357 Texan as a .38 Special.
My personal goal is to be able to keep the first two to three shots in a one inch circle at 100 yards. This honker will also be used primarily for plinking, but it would be nice to be able to slap one of these high tailers around here side the head if I need to. 😉
To Whom It May Concern:
I find your new format of the blogs appalling. I do realize that to justify their existence, the IT folks have to come up with something new all of the time, but this is a prime example of change is not necessarily good. As stated previously, the users of this site are in the habit of being able to click on the title and/or picture to go to the desired blog, not a little Read More tag. Now we have to guess where we wish to go.
You should probably back up a bit with the PAIR site some also, or at the very least give us a link to ammunition on your initial offering. As is I have to type such in the search. You people have a lot to learn. New is not necessarily better. More often it is just new.
That is fine if you are chasing after the newbies, but it is us “old geezers” who spend money on toys and stuff. What you folks have done to Pyramyd Air, making it into Pyramyd AIR is not appealing to the likes of me. I for one feel as though you are no longer interested in my business, as little as it may be. OK fine.
RR
I also have a .457 Texan SS it has a somewhat shorter barrel than yours.
I have about 400 plus rounds through the .357 so far.
I in the .457, my best accuracy so far is with 365gr hollow points. And yes it will either shoot three in an inch at 100, or just slightly over.
But that’s from a rest, and shooting a retail slug.
The second part of the Big Bore plinking will be the .457.
Ian.
Look forward to your muzzleloader series as well, Ian.
Ian,
That is awesome! I cannot wait to see the next section and the one about ML either!
Who makes the 365gr “slug”?
Mr. Hollowpoint makes the slugs.
I had this photo on my phone.
2 shots at 50 yards with the slug.
This was one of the first times I had taken the Texan out.
Ian.
Ian,
That is exactly what I am looking for. With that kind of grouping, I would not hesitate to shoot a deer. Of course, Mrs. RR would not let me do such unless we were truly hungry. 😉 That type of shot grouping would indeed make shooting this Texan LSS at one hundred yards plus fun.
The search for THE cast bullet continues!
RidgeRunner and potential airgun hunters,
It is a joy to know that kind of accuracy is going to give near surgical precision if you know your hunting fundamentals (i know you are up on them RR) but for folks thinking of hunting with airguns realize this: you need to know prey anatomy in 3D cold and have your knowledge of prey behaviors over time down cold.
My best advice to the new to airgun hunting is to have a clear understanding of the differences from both archery and firearm hunting methods before you ever take a shot at an animal.
Please ask questions here ON THIS BLOG and get to HUNTER EDUCATION classes telling the instructors of your use of an airgun before you sign up; if they are dismissive or hesitant in the least find another instructor.
shootski
45Bravo,
Nice! Mr. Hollowpoint casts some outstanding projectiles. I have bought his products for many years. His Spitzers are the royalty of long range.
shootski
Seconded! IT makes work when none is available. I view the blog on a phone. Young folks who live under a tower think adding graphics is always a good thing. For some of us it just slows things down. Not good!
It is their core belief that constant change justifies their existence. Very likely these IT folks once worked for Microsoft.
RIDGE: absolutely agree with you. Now . . . ‘noughsaid. Orv.
As a side note to all of the users of this blog, stay away from the airguns and hunting links near the bottom of the intro page. They split up BB’s blog without any rhyme or reason to them.
Glad I’m not the only one who was caught off guard by the new website change. I thought there was a broken link and had to double check my bookmark and then type the URL manually. Then, without a date on the blog listings, wasn’t sure what was the newest blog. I suggest adding dates and enlarging the target area to include the entire area of the blog description and not just use the “read more” area as the active area.
Perhaps in the future you can consider a Beta site to get more helpful incite as to what to change before releasing?
As to the blog, Ian – very interesting observations especially linking twist rate and speed and seating (was just reviewing re-loading tips in another publication) between firearms and air rifles. Looking forward to future articles on getting the most out of your Texan and PCP’s.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
Off topic Fred, but have you ever noticed how the most UN-democratic places seem to appropriate the “democratic” adjective to their national identifier?
I am sure that is one of the reasons Fred left NJ. Now we have a Democratic President.
RidgeRunner of the Demokratik Peeples Republik Of Virginia
Off-topic again and apologize for that but, for the bloggers and others who believe a pic is worth 1000 words, here is a possibly helpful tool. Disclaimer: FM has never used/owned one and can’t vouch for either it’s useability or quality. There is a lot of “hype” and hot air out there.
https://nano-zoom.com
FM, that thing looks pretty neat! 🙂
How did the noise levels compare between the Gauntlet and Texan? Is it possible to quiet big bore airguns?
R Scott,
“Is it possible to quiet big bore airguns?”
I shoot an Old School Dennis Quackenbush LA Outlaw in 1:10, .308 caliber. It shoots 110-150 grain bullets at above 1,000 to around 800 FPS for the heaviest. I use a Donny FL Emperor V3 and the 6″ expansion chamber to quiet it.
I have culled urban whitetail and dropped as many as three from a herd before the rest realize that they need to be gone. Most likely they realize something is wrong only by the DRT bodies hitting the ground. The urban night is noisier than the report of the DAQ.
shootski
I couldn’t really compare his gauntlet 30 against my 357 Texan because he was running $150 aftermarket suppressor on the end of his gauntlet and my 357 is not suppressed in anyway.
I can make three observations from having shot all three guns back to back.
My 457 Texan, SS with the internal sound suppression was not too far off of his 30 gauntlet noise wise.
With the exception, I was pushing a lot more air than he was but neither one of them actually required hearing protection.
Another observation is that gauntlet feels like it weighs twice what either of my Texans weigh.
And that gauntlet is so much harder to cock than either of the Texans.
But the gauntlet has its plus sides. It is a repeater, it is regulated, it fills to 4500 psi, and you have the option of adding your own noise reduction if you choose.
I can put my hands on a JTS 30 caliber and a gauntlet 30 caliber.
Maybe it’s time to do a comparison.
Ian
R Scott,
I have seen a picture of a silencer for a tank. It is bigger than the tank itself.
The “secret” to a silencer is to make the gas/air expend all of its energy within the silencer before it exits into the big, wide world. Baffles and such divert this stuff and give it something to expend some of that energy on.
Volume also gives space for the gas/air to expand into. That is how shrouding works to silence an airgun. The expanding air is diverted into the shroud to give it a place to expand before it exits.
Often, a combination of the two is used.
45Bravo,
Welcome to the Darkest corner of the Dark Side.
May the FORCE be with you always!
Joking aside it is very interesting to see you grow in your understanding of Big Bore airguns.
Watching with great interest in your adventures.
Thank you,
shootski
PS: it may just keep me from exiting this campfire bogs idiocy long enough for some From the Top Sanity imposition to make some improvements to the current New, NEW, format.
PPS: Martin Baker ARMING switch toggle cover OPEN! Switched to ARM…
Don’t eject yet, shootski. There are no great alternative landing zones out there. But then again, FFM (Fawlty Feldwebel Manuel) sees nothing, hears nothing, knows nothing!
FFM,
Thats the Sgt. Schultz defense (from Hogans Hero’s TV show)
Ian
Everyone,
Went to the ER yesterday. Was admitted to the hospital — AT HOME! Constant nurse contact via zoom and 3 paramedic visits per day for meds.
Have at least three hernias plus a golf-ball-sized kidney stone.
Ian McKee will be writing next weeks blogs except for Monday’s that I wrote.
Please don’t try to contact me — I am overwhelmed with supporters!
BB
Tom,
Get well soon. You are in my prayers. Three hernias? I guess an incisional, umbilical and inguinal hernia each.
Siraniko
Tom,
Get well soon. You are in my prayers. Three hernias? I guess an incisional, umbilical and inguinal hernia each.
Siraniko
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) [I note a longer user name],
I wondered how you were getting on and now I know. 🙁
So sorry to hear that you’re in such discomfort/distress. Hope the drugs continue to provide for some relief!
The good news is, since your home is now an extension to the main hospital emergency wing, there’ll surely be some financial implications, eh?!
If only hand-over had been under happier circumstances…
Tom,
Proverbs 3:5-6 – Trusting God’s Direction
“Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”
May the doctors that plan your course of treatment be clear in direction, the hands that provide your care skillful, and that all be guided by God’s will, Amen.
Gutte Verbesserung.
shootski
shootski,
That’s taped to my bedroom wall. I say it all the time.
There are blessings then there are blessings in disguise.
BB
B.B,
It is a great passage to hold to.
Psalm 23 has been mine; it has been my source of strength often.
shootski
OK PRAYER TEAM! LET’S GO!
On it. Will be in Church today, tomorrow (of course) and Monday. Will be lighting candles and offering prayers for speedy recovery.
To all
“OK PRAYER TEAM! LET’S GO!”
I second RR’s motion.
Deck
Count on FM’s. Last thing BB should be worrying about is blog entries but Ian will capably handle that task.
We are praying for you Tom.
Take care Tom! Get well soon!
Hope the treatment team will make sure to preserve Tom’s mobility – easy to lose in our latter years.
Tom you have my best wishes for you even though they come from thousands miles away. Blogs are really not important, people are.
Prayers for you Tom!! I had a feeling something was wrong with so many guest blogs the past few weeks.
Aside from that most important aspect, I agree the new layout/format is horrible!!!! I can’t stand change just for the sake of change to try justify someone’s job. It’s BS!!! If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it!
Ian, thanks for stepping up. I too enjoy shooting big bore, but mine is a .50 cal Seneca/Sam Yang Dragonclaw with a custom made silencer. It’s still too loud to shoot often but all kinds of fun when I can! I found a guy on eBay that I bought over 2000 rounds for it, slugs and roundball and they work really well for a lot less than I could buy anywhere else. Great guy.
Bob
Bob,
Guest blogs take me longer to edit. But I don’t have to test, so it evens out.
BB