Benjamin Marauder pistol – Part 4

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


With the 30mm Compact Centerpoint scope mounted, the Benjamin Marauder is set up for hunting small game.

This is the test I promised at the end of Part 3 of the .22-caliber Benjamin Marauder air pistol report back in December. You’ll remember that I didn’t think the scope I used for accuracy testing in Part 3 was doing all it could for the gun. I said I would try it again with the 30mm Centerpoint scope Crosman had sent with the gun, once I had a set of rings to mount it.

If you’re just learning about the Benjamin Marauder pistol for the first time with this report, you need to know that this pistol has taken the airgun world by storm. Just as the Benjamin Marauder rifle holds its own with European PCPs costing two to three times as much, the Marauder pistol does the same when compared to the high-priced PCPs coming from the same European companies. It’s a red-hot seller that offers unprecedented power and accuracy at an affordable price.

It has a choked Crosman barrel that stands equal to tubes from Anschütz and Lothar Walther. The reputation hasn’t been built yet, but the performance is undeniable. The trigger is very sweet and fully adjustable, and of course the pistol is shrouded. When fired, it sounds like a Daisy Red Ryder instead of the 15 foot-pound hunting airgun that it is.

I wasn’t satisfied that I’d seen all the accuracy the pistol had to offer in the last accuracy test, so this additional test was added to give us a second look. What I learned this time was remarkable and worthy of note, but I’ll get to that later.

For this test, I mounted Centerpoint’s 3-12×44 Power Class scope with mil-dot reticle and sidewheel AO in a set of two-piece Centerpoint 30mm high rings that Crosman provided. The high rings raised the scope up so high that I had to rest my chin on the comb of the detachable shoulder stock to see a clear image. If this were my pistol I would attach about an inch of firm foam padding to the top of the shoulder stock comb to bring my eye comfortably up to the right height.

This scope is sufficiently clear and bright enough that it enhanced the sight picture rather than detracting like the last scope did. Although the reticle lines are not thin, I was able to see the intersection of both the horizontal and vertical lines clearly inside the 10-ring of the bull, so aiming was more precise than it had been during the test in Part 3.

Which pellet to use?
Normally, when testing the accuracy of any airgun, I select four to six different pellets that I think will work, given the power and potential accuracy of the test gun. Then, we’ll see how they actually do on the range. Picking pellets for accuracy testing is fairly straightforward and based on the past performance of those pellets in similar guns. But not this time. I tried five different types of .22 caliber pellets, in addition to two other pellets that were used in Part 3 (Beeman Kodiaks were reused in this test because they did so well the first time around). However, nothing I tried wanted to group — except the Kodiaks. Kodiaks grouped so well that the pistol is an undeniable tackdriver. But, I’m getting ahead of myself.

Unfortunately, I didn’t pick Kodiaks from the start to sight-in the new scope, therefore I stumbled around with two other pellets for quite a while before realizing what was happening. They were RWS Superdomes and 15.9-grain JSB Exact domes. Both gave mediocre groups of about one inch at 25 yards in the test pistol, which made sighting-in very difficult. Then, I just gave up and defaulted to the Kodiaks that had done so well in the last accuracy test I delivered in Part 3. That’s when the gun started to perform.

In fact, the first “group” of Kodiaks was just for kicks to see where 8 pellets would land. Eight instead of 10, because that’s how many the magazine holds.


The first group of Kodiaks at 25 yards was this one. Eight pellets went into this 0.405-inch group. Though shot just for fun, it turned out to be the best group of the test.

After that, I shot group after group, and they were all similar. After several tight groups had built up my confidence in the gun, I was reminded of my old Hakim rifle that used to lob them into a similar round group at 10 meters. I would get so mesmerized by how accurate that rifle was that I couldn’t stop shooting. The sight of each new tight group when I went downrange to change targets was a turn-on. In the case of the Marauder pistol, I could watch through the scope as shot after shot went into the same ragged hole, only not at 10 meters but 25 yards. Thinking about my old Hakim also reminded me that the most accurate pellet in that rifle was the RWS Superpoint, which is now called the Superpoint Extra.

So, I got a tin of those and tried them in the pistol. Wrong! The groups opened up to almost one inch once more. So I wondered whether the heavy 18.1-grain JSB Exact Jumbos would perform more like the Kodiaks. After all, they are within a couple grains of the Kodiak’s weight and they are made by JSB. But I might as well have been shooting a shotgun, for all the good they did. No, this pistol wants to shoot Beeman Kodiaks, and nothing else!


I know this photo looks fishy, like I’m hiding a pellet hole under the coin, but I’m not. It’s just difficult to position a dime next to a target on a scanner. This group of eight Kodiaks measures 0.529 inches between centers. The top and bottom holes have closed, making the group appear smaller than it really is. This group is about the average size of all the Kodiak groups I fired.

Then, I had a thought. What about those new copperplated Kodiaks? Would they do just as well as the regular Kodiaks? If I didn’t try them, someone would bring it to my attention. I didn’t think the copperplated ones would perform the same as pure lead Kodiaks, but the only way to know for sure is to shoot them. I loaded a magazine and gave them a try. Much to my surprise, they did just as good as the all-lead Kodiaks.


Eight Kodiak copperplated pellets went into this group, which measures 0.458 inches c-t-c. Remarkable performance!

Summary
That’s my report on the Marauder pistol. Some will read it and grouse about the pistol not doing well with a wide range of pellets, but the black powder cartridge shooter in me says that as long as there’s one bullet or pellet that shines, the gun is alright. Once I find that one best pellet, I never mess with the others anyway. In the test pistol, Beeman Kodiak pellets are the clear winner. I would continue to try other pellets from time to time, but Kodiaks would remain my standard ammo until displaced by something even better.

The Benjamin Marauder pistol is every bit as stunning as the Marauder rifle, by reason of accuracy, power, trigger and quiet operation. As long as you use the shoulder stock that comes with the gun and as long as you mount a good-quality scope, this pistol is a real shooter. If you’re looking for a stealthy hunting air pistol, give this one serious consideration.

143 Responses to “Benjamin Marauder pistol – Part 4”

  • Joe B in Marin Says:

    Beautiful little carbine. I’ve had two so far and loved each of them. First was on my SSP-250, now one as part of my 2250. So light and easily carried. And accurate for so little bucks.

    Wonder when I’m going to fall for my first PCP. : )

    B.B., when you say, “I would attach about an inch of firm foam padding to the top of the shoulder stock comb to bring my eye comfortably up to the right height”, what material would you use? I used to use a small, multi-folded towel rubber banded to the stock of my 2250, but of course it kept falling off. And how would you attach it? Just curious. Can’t shoot outdoors near these high-end apartments here in Marin…the neighbors would go self-righteously ballistic. Have to wait until we return to Maui this spring before I do any more serious airguning. For now, it’s inside shooting with quiet airsoft guns.

    • Loren Says:

      Joe B.
      For your foam stock pad go to your hardware store and get a piece of black pipe insulation foam. It allready has a split line slip it over the top bar on your crosman stock and fasten it with zip ties.
      Loren

      • Brian in Idaho Says:

        Ya, what Loren said… I have also used that foam with the 1″ inside diameter to cover a 36″ wood dowel (clothes hanger dowel for a closet) and it makes for a great gun rack in the garage to lean the toys against.

      • DB Says:

        Velcro straps for binding power cords work better than zip ties and look nicer.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Joe B,

      I like the stiff foam used by upholsterers. But I have used shop rags held on with duct tape, so my standards aren’t that high.

      B.B.

    • twotalon Says:

      Something that might work….
      There used to be some stuff you could use on bows that you wrap around the hand grip and squeeze it to leave an impression of your hand. Something like modeling clay that you heat up to make it soft so you can form it.

      twotalon

    • Matt61 Says:

      Blackhawk has a very nice cheek piece that straps on with velcro for about $25. There are three foam pads that you can remove to get the right thickness. Removing one gives me the exact right height for my Savage 10FP, and I have no complaints about the stock which people like to make fun of. The cheekpad looks very cool and tactical too.

      Matt61

  • DaveUK Says:

    BB:
    Three Air guns this week that make me want to go Mmmmm.
    The Rogue,The new Talon Pistol and the Marauder pistol.
    All PCP’s.
    Why does the grass always seem greener on the other(Dark)side?
    DaveUK

    • pcp4me Says:

      DaveUK,

      Do you know where I can find information and pictures of the Talon pistol?

      thanks

      • J-F Says:

        pcp4me,
        I posted the link to the Talon Pistol earlier this week, it’s on the airforce website, under the “new for 2011″ page you can find right here : http://www.airforceairguns.com/Articles.asp?ID=252

        Here is what they say about this new pistol :
        The TalonP sets a new standard in air pistol power levels. Designed to deliver over 50ft. lbs. of energy with a .25 caliber
        hunting pellet, this pistol is for the serious hunter wanting a compact, yet powerful hunting tool.

        They are also coming out with different length of .25 caliber barrels.

        J-F

        • DaveUK Says:

          J-F:
          Cheers for reposting the link to the TalonP.
          pcp4me:
          Aint she a stunner?
          Definitely got a bit of ‘Star Wars’ laser blaster going on.
          DaveUK

          • pcp4me Says:

            DaveUK,

            Looks like a winner. Just a few questions on it. Maybe someone knows. Is that an air tank sticking out the back or just an adapter for one? Also it looks to be permanently attached to the gun?

            Sure would love to know specifications on it. Particularly shots per fill.

            • Edith Gaylord Says:

              DaveUK,

              It’s a small air tank. We have it already listed on Pyramyd Air’s site, but it hasn’t been activated yet (awaiting pricing) & therefore not visible when doing a search. I have a slightly larger image of it, and you can see that it attaches just like any other AirForce tank.

              Edith

  • Mr B. Says:

    Morning B.B.,

    Thanks for revisiting the Marauder Pistol for us. Way too many new guns that I’ve got to have–this one, the AirForce .25 rifle, and Rogue. I wonder why some guns are so very pellet sensitive? Has anyone ever figured that one out?

    Bruce

    • twotalon Says:

      A lot of possibilities for pellet sensitive, Mr. B.

      Magazine deforms pellet.
      Transfer port snags pellet.
      Back edge of bore snags pellet.
      Snag in the bore in a groove or along the side of a rifling land that snags some pellets but not others.
      Barrel vibration patterns.
      Imperfect crown that affects some pellets more than others.
      Pellet fits bad.

      Probably a hundred more reasons, either singularly or in combinations.

      twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Bruce,

      I sure haven’t figured it out. It seems to defy all reason, yet I witnessed it firsthand.

      B.B.

    • twotalon Says:

      Mr. B

      To help you visualize just some of the possible problems…gross exaggeration of scale helps make it easier to understand.
      Draw a lengthwise cross section of a rifle barrel at the muzzle with a 1″ bore. Add in a rifling land on the top and bottom. Make them 1/4″ high. Now give it a crown at a long tapered angle as if it were done with a tapered reamer.

      Now you can imagine a pellet with it’s two narrow contact surfaces slowly passing out your wildly exaggerated muzzle.
      Look at where both the head and skirt will be at any point in time as the pellet tries to leave.
      Any lack of symmetry in contact will try to push the pellet out of line. First the head, then the skirt.
      You can have an uneven pressure applied (against the bore) as the pellet breaks free. Then you have an uneven leakage of pressure around the pellet that will push it out of line.

      Ever shoot pellets into a trash can full of water so you can look at them? Lets look at one that had a very tight fit and was bitten hard by the rifling. There will be extrusion at the trailing edge of both the head and skirt. Sometimes the skirt has never touched the bottom of the grooves. Sometimes it has, but not symmetricly.

      Apply these deformities and variability in bore contact to your exaggerated muzzle.
      Then you can imagine other damage caused during loading or at some other point in the barrel.
      Imagine pellets that fit differently and may or may not catch a snag.
      You can add in a snag at the crown at any point and imagine the effects as the pellet tries to get loose.

      Don’t try to figure if the velocity and twist rate for the pellet is right or not. We are only looking at the mechanics of getting the pellet loose.

      You could also draw the muzzle with a grossly cockeyed crown and imagine what that would do.

      twotalon

  • g. austin Says:

    What is the overall length of the pistol from muzzle to cocking bolt? and then from muzzle to carbine stock butt.

    Great review and I agree about pellets. Find the one it likes and then buy 2K rounds and never look back.

  • Chuck Says:

    Finally a report on a gun I can actually shoot. And an excellent gun at that! You finally got away from those “wrong handed” contraptions. :-) :-) :-) I hope that’s enough left-handed smiley faces to show I’m just needling and mean no harm or disrespect.

    This is a pistol to own. Even though it seems strange to buy a pistol but end up with a carbine. Best of both worlds, I suppose? Except I get the feel from your closing paragraph it’s not as good a pistol as it is a carbine? Now, I wish I could have bought this .22 pistol and then got the rifle in .177. My decision to get the .22 rifle seemed like a good idea at the time but more than once that decision has come up and bitten me in the hybrid horse.

    I notice PA doesn’t show the stock or the de-gassing tool by clicking on “accessories” for the pistol. Shouldn’t they be listed there? One might buy more accessories if one knew what was available. Ever go to the womens department with your wife? There is huge money to be made in accessories.

    -Chuck

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Chuck,

      There is no degassing tool that I know of for the Marauder pistol. It has the hole for one, but the owner’s manual doesn’t address it. It says to dry-fire the excess air out.

      B.B.

    • Alan in MI Says:

      Chuck,

      I’m curious why you regret getting the Marauder rifle in .22 instead of .177? Too much power? Field Target use?

      Just curious as I figure out my next steps . . . .

      Alan in MI

      • Chuck Says:

        Alan in MI,
        About my Marauder: Maybe regret is too strong a word. If I had known the pistol was only offered in .22 I’d have gotten the M rifle in .177 because as .22 it is very accurate. From what I’m hearing recently I must have gotten one of the early ones that were still accurate.

        I would like to have used it in the 10m airgunarena (AGA) competition, at least. AGA is restricted right now to .177. Seems most competition is in .177. Anyway, I got it in .22 because I didn’t have a .22, up to that time, and I thought it would be a good idea to get one if I ever became interested in hunting.

        If the Pistol was offered in .177 right now I’d buy it hoping it was as accurate as the .22. As is, I have an excellent .22 rifle (Ms M) and an accurate .177 (Talon SS). The detractor for me for the Talon is the air bottle for a stock. It seems uncomfortable for me. Doesn’t fit my shoulder.

        One of my projects is to investigate making a wire stock that will fit over the bottle, making a better fit. I think I’d like one of those hook end stocks but am not sure it would be legal for 10m competition. Like I say, that’s in the future. Otherwise I’m very satisfied with Mr T, on air, in .177 and Ms M on air in .22 for plinking and I’d love to have a Ms M’ette pistol but …

        -Chuck

    • Mr B. Says:

      Chuck,

      How about converting your gun, Ms M, to .177? If it’s like the Discovery, all you’ll need is the barrel, bolt, and o-ring. If I’m wrong, someone here will let us know.

      Bruce

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Chuck,

      I’ve listed the degassing tool as an accessory for the Marauder pistol. It’s possible the manual doesn’t list it as a useful accessory because the reservoir is so small that they don’t think most people will use/need it.

      However, I’ll check with the Crosman people on whether or not the degasser can be used for the pistol. Since there’s a hole for it, people who own the degassing tool already will probably stick it in that hole & use it!

      The shoulder stock comes with the gun. I’ve asked Pyramyd Air’s photo department to create a composite photo with the stock next to the gun on the product page to show that it comes with the package. It IS shown on the gun on the zoomed images page:

      http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/zoomed_model.pl?model_id=2367

      Plus, the description states that it comes with the shoulder stock extension. I’ve put that info in a more prominent place in the bulleted list.

      Edith

      • Edith Gaylord Says:

        One more thing. The manual says this:

        “If the pressure in the gun cannot be relieved using the dry firing process it may indicate a valve lock condition and require use of the degassing tool # PCPDT4 available at http://www.crosman.com , or contact Crosman Customer Service at 1-800-724-7486.”

        So, it appears that you CAN use the degassing tool. My earlier statement that the reservoir is so small that most people won’t want/need/use a degasser is probably the reason it wasn’t included in the package.

        Edith

        • Edith Gaylord Says:

          I just heard from Crosman, and they said the Marauder pistol CAN use the degasser, but it was not included to help keep the cost of gun lower.

          One important thing they brought up…while the other Crosman/Benjamin PCP guns are listed as dual-fuel, the Marauder pistol is not. Crosman did not design this pistol to work with CO2, and they didn’t test it with CO2.

          Edith

      • Chuck Says:

        Edith,
        Thank you for not calling me a dufuss. Wow! How did I miss both references to the stock being included? I just assumed it was an option and wasn’t going to let reality influence me. I can only blame it on my present environment (and beer, yay, we found some American beer here).
        -Chuck

  • Frank B Says:

    Kevin…..I was offline all day yesterday.I hope you get that Whiscombe,you will really enjoy it.I wonder which two calibers?? That will teach me to miss a day,won’t it?

    • Mr B. Says:

      Frnak B,

      You missed by e-mail to you this morning.

      Bruce

      • Frank B Says:

        Mr.B,that one is indeed drool worthy! But,alas…..I will not compete with Kevin over it.I have a Whiscombe and a friend named Kevin,I will do whatever I can to keep it that way!

        • kevin Says:

          Frank B,

          Thanks for the kind words.

          kevin

        • Mr B. Says:

          Frank B,

          I hope I didn’t put my foot in my mouth with my comment. When I read that post this morning I thought of you and was laughing about you and all your comments in the past about eating those R something or other noodles when you stretched your acquisition budget to the breaking point.

          Bruce

          • Frank B Says:

            NEVER underestimate my ability to repurpose funds…..any money I have can be used on the right airgun!! Yes,I end up eating alot of Ramen noodles with this philosophy.I wouldn’t think twice about that Whiscombe…..they’re THAT good.

  • derrick Says:

    BB,
    Nice shooting! Agree completely with only needing one accurate pellet–of course it’s helpful if the pellet happens to be useful for the task at hand, too. Probably not much use if your new pet 10-meter rifle only likes Super Point Extras. It’s hard to argue when the pellet is a Kodiak/Barracuda and the gun is for hunting or silhouette. Yet, I continue to see many posts from guys sending hunting/field target guns (Marauders mostly) off for spa treatment. Some even dropping $120+ on new barrels just to get them to shoot a particular JSB pellet–never mind that the gun already shot Premiers into tiny little holes.

    Can you kindly ask Crosman to design a new stock for this gun? This plastic stock is beyond cheesy for a gun at this price and performance level. It begs for an update when we start talking about pipe insulation and zip ties. For that matter, offer it as an accessory for all the 22XX guns that are out there, too.

    An adjustable height cheek piece and buttplate would be a good start.

    derrick

    • Brian in Idaho Says:

      I second that motion for an updated and upgraded stock for the 22XX guns from Crosman or …an alert entrepeneur?

      With all the tactile-plastic compounds available, this is surely a no-brainer for Crosman?

    • Alan in MI Says:

      On the better looking stock – would the Crosman “Wood Sholder Stock and Forearm” model 2400-100 for the 2250 fit? I’ve always wondered if it would fit my 1322, but since already have the 1399 I wouldn’t spend the money anyways . . .

      If it fits it would be a perfect screw on replacement for the 1399.

      Alan in MI

  • pcp4me Says:

    BB,

    I’m a bit disappointed to see it only shoot the kodiaks well. But I am with you about if it shoots one really well it is a keeper!

    I have a similar experience with my Sumatra .177 carbine. Only it does not like Kodiaks. however it loves Kodiak Hollow Points and shoots them the best, just edging out the crosman boxed premiers. This gun seems to like pellets that weigh in at about 10.5 gr best. The kodiak hollow points are 10.38 gr I think. I have not tested eun jin 16.1 gr pellets at any long range as I only have a few of them and am waiting till I can test them at 50 yards. With about a foot of snow on the ground here that will be a while.

    All the above testing was done at highest power levels possible. On lower power levels the gun doesn’t seem to care what pellet is used. They all shoot well.

    So maybe other pellets will shoot well in the P-rod if the power levels are adjusted. Easy to do with the Sumatra as you simply start at highest power and lower it one click at a time while testing groups to determine the best setting for that pellet.

    • Fred PRoNJ Says:

      PCP4Me,

      sometimes that’s the way these things work out. My R-9 likes JSB’s, Falcons and the Beeman/JSP copper coated .20 cal pellets. However, my Crosman Nitro shoots like a scatter gun with every pellet but H & N Barracudas. The Nitro does twice the group size at the R-9 and HW 50S.

      Maybe I should talk to Vince abour re-crowning the barrel?

      Fred PRoNJ

  • J-F Says:

    Man does that thing seems nice. I sure wish I could buy one.
    I’m REALLY happy this is the last report about it, I don’t want to ever hear or see it again, what a torture.
    This is just the perfect gun for me, I like the style (even the cheesy, cheap looking stock) the repeater, the shroud, the PCP, the take down carbine.

    There’s someone on a Canadian forum that’s supposed to be making a nice airgun based on the 22XX series maybe it’ll scratch a bit of the marauder pistol itch I have when it becomes available (IF it becomes available).

    J-F

  • J-F Says:

    This was posted this morning on the Crosman website. It’s a nice interview with Lloyd the great :D
    have a look at it.

    http://www.crosman.com/blogs/croswords/?p=1421

    • Fred PRoNJ Says:

      thanks, JF for posting this URL. I left a comment that we’re all very proud that one of the posters on this blog is behind this great new rifle.Hope I wasn’t out of line. Lloyd,thanks for coming up with this unique product which I’m sure was fairly simple compared to what you do for a living?

      Fred PRoNJ

  • HK Says:

    Looks………purposeful…………
    HK

  • kevin Says:

    Lloyd,

    Just watched your SHOT Show interview with the Rogue being held next to you. Well done. Since you’re at the SHOT Show I don’t know if you’ve had time to follow the enormous amount of buzz your new gun has created on the blogs. Haven’t seen anything like it since Crosman’s introduction of the marauder rifle. You should be proud.

    It was a pleasure meeting you at Roanoke and hope we meet up again soon.

    kevin

    • Lloyd Says:

      Hi BB and all,
      Thanks — and I guess it’s pretty obvious from the interview (which was unexpected and unrehearsed) that I’m an engineer, not a movie star! When I first showed BB what I had in Roanoke in October, 2008, he must have seen me and my contraption wrapped in an old bedspread and thought, “Uh-oh, whack job incoming” — but he was the one with the vision to bring it to Crosman, and that’s what led us all here.

      BTW, I will post more about the show next week,but right now we’re in northern California relaxing and enjoying some great food and scenery. I’ve spent almost every night for four years in the garage tinkering, and my wife insisted she was finally gonna get a vacation out of this thing, dammit!
      Lloyd

      • Brian in Idaho Says:

        Lloyd, hope you enjoyed SHOT and are enjoying Nor-Cal even more.

        As you may know by now, the Yellow Forum and a 1/2 dozen other airgun forums are all buzzing about the Rogue concept gun. And, as might be expected, this gives the Crosman-haters and other naysayers their (latest) opportunity to vent, rant and otherwise barf all over the web.

        Fortunately, here, and on many other sites, there are just as many positive and even congratulatory postings and comments. Similarly, for Jim Chapman and Jim Shockey to both be excited about this gun is a feat unto itself! For me, I’m just delighted to see an airgun hobbyist/engineer like yourself influence and baseline the development of a new airgun as you have done. By the visual appearance of the gun (alone) I can see that it has huge potential for a wide variety of calibers and performance characteristics, shot counts, etc. Even the old .25 ACP bullet comes to mind as an option or possibility assuming that Crosman could keep all barrel sizes the same with only a caliber change, then the concentric receiver and other “shootin” parts could work all over the caliber universe?

        Anyway, as they would say in the UK, …good on you mate!

        • Lloyd Says:

          Brian,
          Yup, human nature. No matter what cal was chosen, 1/4 think its ok, 1/4 want it smaller, 1/4 want it bigger, and 1/4 think its wrong at any size. The technology is adaptable enough to satisfy the other two quarters who can be satisfied. Appearance is totally subjective, but you have to start somewhere. A lot of people just don’t like to be jarred out of their comfort zone, but I bet not too many of them still drive cars with carburetors.
          Lloyd

      • pcp4me Says:

        Lloyd,

        If your wife put up with you tinkering every night for the last 4 years, she DESERVES a vacation AND a new fur coat or diamond ring.

        Just think, do that and she will probably let you tinker for another 8 years without question.

  • Conor Says:

    So, I think I’ve narrowed my B-day wish list down, to the Benjamin Trail NP XL .22. A quick question though, what’s the difference (besides the bull-barrel) between the Benjamin Trail NP XL and the Benjamin Super Streak? Could a person take a coyote out at 15 yds with .22 Trail at a head shot?

    Thanks,
    Conor

    • Fred PRoNJ Says:

      Conor, it appears that the Super Streak is discontinued per PA’s website but that doesn’t mean you can’t buy it somewhere else. The big difference is that the Trail has the nitrogen charged gas strut for a power plant versus a spring for the Super Streak. Both are for hunting and both are fairly powerful. The Trail should be quieter, the recoil should be milder and Crosman brags that you can leave the Trail cocked for hours without worrying about weakening it but I wouldn’t worry about that with a spring piston rifle either. Having no experience with the Super Streak, that’s all I can offer.

      Fred PRoNJ

    • Brian in Idaho Says:

      Conor Fred has good advice and comments for you on the differences (many) between the two guns.

      Your question about “taking out a coyote” has more components to consider than just .22 caliber and a head shot. Generally speaking, a higher velocity, spring powered air rifle using a heavy .22 pellet is just fine for very small game such as squirrels but, a coyote is a much larger animal and I personally would not shoot one with anything less than a firearm varmint gun. I have shot coyotes that weighed nearly 40 pounds and would not have done so with an air rifle as you have outlined. In fact, I shoot a “.20 Practical” round which is a .223 case, necked down to receive a .20 ca spitzer bullet and LOTs of gunpowder inside the case. The coyote in question “flew” about 10 feet from where he was hit based on the shocking power of that bullet at 50 yards.

    • pcp4me Says:

      Conner,

      Neither would be my personal choice. Instead I would want a .25 gun which develops at least 65 fpe and to me that still is puny for coyotes. Better yet is a big bore which packs about 200 fpe.

      Better still imho is a center fire round with performance in the neighborhood of a .204 Ruger or better.

      So in summation, I would NOT hunt coyotes with an airgun. If I had to for some reason, I would go with a big bore with at least 200 fpe.

      A coyote is a tough animal and deserves the respect of using a gun which will get clean one shot kills every time.

      I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is my 2 cents!

    • twotalon Says:

      You could get lucky if you hit the right place at the right angle. Everything would have to be perfect.
      Would be a good idea to forget about it.
      Adult groundhogs can be tough with an airgun too. Pellets bounce off their skull if you don’t hit them just right.

      Squirrels, rabbits, and smaller pests (along with pest birds) are more suitable for most airguns. If you want to do a good job on anything bigger you should consider laying on a lot more power…in spite of the Gamo commercials.

      twotalon

      • pcp4me Says:

        twotalon,

        Ground hogs are not predators or aggressive so there is little chance that a wounded one will charge and chew a hunk out of your leg.

        Coyotes are aggressive, but are more afraid of you than you are of them. Their first instinct when hurt is to run away from the source. And even if they did charge you, it is unlikely you would suffer fatal wounds unless they had rabies!

        So while I would use a powerful air gun on ground hogs, coons, and possums, I would not for coyotes. A forty pound coyote chewing on your leg has gotta hurt!

        • Alan in MI Says:

          I will add that reason you want to put a predator down fast (aside from ethics) is that if they are only wounded, they can’t hunt effectively. This drives them to easier food sources like garbage, increasing the chance of a bad interaction with some poor innocent person. You don’t want to be the cause of that.

          Alan in MI

          • Conor Says:

            Alan, If I did decide to shoot a coyote(for some reason or another), we have two 4-wheelers with which we would track down the coyote in if we only wounded him. And besides, if we needed to kill a coyote because we got some complaints from our seasonal hired workers(they pick the apples, hand prune the grapes….) we, (my brother and I) would have two cycles, him with his Benjamin 392 and me with the Benjamin Trail NP XL .22, and my RWS 34p .22, I think he would go down there.

            Conor

            • Chuck Says:

              Well, Conor,
              Sounds like you’ve made up your mind about shooting a coyote. Too bad. I think we’ve tried to caution you politely against doing that. Personally, I don’t think either you or your brother will be good enough shots to kill a coyote on the first or even second shot. What you’ll do is hit it in the side wounding it and possibly making it sick and dangerous enough to hurt someone else some other day. I have a feeling you are not allowed to own a firearm so therefore you’re resorting to a air rifle. Please rethink this issue and get a good firearm to do the job.
              -Chuck

              • Conor Says:

                Chuck,

                I think you misunderstood me, I said, “IF” we had to shoot a coyote… because it was hanging around our hired workers we would shoot it. As far as firearms go, I don’t own one, but if we needed one to shoot the coyote, my grandpa’s house is less than a mile away and he has several he would lend me without giving it a second thought.

                I don’t plan on shooting a coyote anytime soon, but if we have to, we will.

                Sorry for any misunderstanding.
                Conor

                p.s. I don’t mean to stir up any tension, but my brother and I would be able to hit the coyote in the head if he was running 40 yds away! We both like long-range shooting and frequently shoot pellet tins at 40-110 yds.

                • Chuck Says:

                  Conor,
                  OK, you’ve put my mind at ease a bit. Not trying to create ill will but also not trying to promote risky air gun adventures. Thanks for keeping it in perspective and not coming back with a flame. I’m not an animal hugger, per se, but I also don’t believe in causing them unnecessary pain. Sounds like you have a cool place to run around in.
                  -Chuck

                • Edith Gaylord Says:

                  Conor,

                  Shooting a target at 40 yards…yeah, you could probably do it. How about shooting a moving target? How much practice do you have doing that? How many times have you practiced shooting a moving target the size of a yote and succeeded with proper/deadly pellet placement?

                  I believe you’ve underestimated your prey. Shooting a moving target when its moves are PREDICTABLE is hard enough. You’d be shooting at a moving target that’s in pain & whose moves are not necessarily predictable.

                  Hard to believe that your backup plan after wounding the yote is to go a mile down the road to your grandpa’s place, get a gun, go back a mile and expect to see the yote exactly where you left him so you can take him out. Even yotes have survival instincts.

                  I don’t believe your expectations are realistic. And I don’t think your guns are sufficient to do the job. If your grandpa has firearms and, as you claim, has no issue with you using them, then I suggest you ask him to give you one on permanent loan and do the right thing. It is neither humane nor kind to shoot any quarry with a gun that is considered by most here to be marginal at best.

                  It would be a good idea for you to practice shooting yote-size paper targets and also find inanimate moving targets to get a realistic grip on what it takes to successfully do this.

                  At this point, you say “if” you have to take out a yote. I’m hoping it never happens…for the sake of the animal.

                  Edith

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Conor,

      Years ago, Tom told me this:

      If you shoot a predator or an aggressive species/animal, you better have more than enough firepower to do the job. Because, if you don’t and the critter is only injured, you either need to be really fast at loading/shooting a second shot or be a very fast runner…’cause you’ve just rung the dinner bell.

      Edith

      • Conor Says:

        Ok, I kinda get the impression that hunting coyotes with the Benjamin Trail NP XL isn’t a very good idea! ;-)

        I was just wondering if it would kill it in like a situation when on our farm a coyote is ripping up a pheasant. It would be mostly for rabbits, squirrels, birds, ect. anyways.

        Thanks,
        Conor

        • Brian in Idaho Says:

          Your a good man Conor,

          “I kinda get the impression…” that’s a funny line!

        • rikib Says:

          I’m not sure, but wouldn’t a 410 take down a coyote. Mind you it is against all my beliefs (killing coyotes or wolves), I’m a lifetime member of “Defenders Of Wildlife”. If you feel you need to do so try and do it in a humane way. Here in SWGA you can purchase a 410 at Wal-Mart, don’t know what your laws are.

          rikib

          • twotalon Says:

            A slug in the boiler room.

            twotalon

          • Brian in Idaho Says:

            Your organization website is interesting.

            Problem in most of Idaho (with wolves) is the many years of federal protection and free ranging across and back from Canada has sent the population skyrocketing, while their protected status also made them bolder around livestock and man.

            As one rancher up in Couer d’Alene noted. “the first few weeks, you put up with one or two dead sheep or lambs, then it get’s up to six and seven, after a few months, you have lost thirty or forty and these (wolves) are smart animals that learn where their dinner plate is filled. I love those animals (the wolves) but, they had to be thinned out”

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        A few years ago I was in Spitsbergen in the far Norwegian arctic. When you land they give you a brochure on dos and don’ts. The law requires you to carry a rifle if you leave the settlements. If you come upon a polar bear [not drinking Coca-Cola], you should try to startle it into running away (a couple of shots in the air). If that fails, and the bear charges, you are advised to make sure you have 3 more rounds in the magazine: two to try to stop the bear, and one for yourself if you cannot.

        Fairly good advice for defense against any large, aggressive carnivore. Not at all clear that with adrenaline pumping your practice range scores on coyote-sized targets have much application to the real situation.

        • Herb Says:

          Re: Hunting Polar bear with a Gamo

          Sounds like a good possibility for a Darwin Award …

          • J-F Says:

            I’m not sure about the keeping one pellet for yourself either LOL
            Pete already told us this great story and of course he’s not talking about an airgun rifle here.

            JF

        • Matt61 Says:

          I’ve been debating furiously with myself about what is the top land predator in the world. I had thought polar bears which are among the largest and strongest of all bears; highly intelligent (comparable to a human three year old by some estimates); and much more aggressive than other species. There was one video of a huge scarred polar bear herding a smaller female off by herself to guarantee himself exclusive rights to her. Now that’s mean! And you should see the videos of polar bears leaping up in the air and diving head first into seal breathing holes. But hold on. There is the Siberian tiger which can be up to 900 pounds of muscle. The tiger is highly athletic and able to run up to 50mph which is quite a bit faster than any bear. Its fangs are longer than the polar bear’s and its claws, because they retract, are much sharper. The tiger is so strong it can easily haul a carcass that 13 men cannot budge. I suppose a human out of ammo would be toast in the face of either one. They are both so powerful that they would rather avoid than mess with each other. But as for the theoretical title of top land predator, I have pretty much worn myself out without coming to a conclusion.

          Matt61

          • Chuck Says:

            Matt61,
            Since your parameters are mammal, land, predator, it appears that the African lion is responsible for the most human deaths per year whereas Polar Bear attacks are deadly but rare.

            The most dangerous creature is the mosquito which kills millions of people a year around the world.

            -Chuck

  • Matt61 Says:

    Nice shooting. It’s always nice to see good results for the Marauder design. I can’t get into this gun as a pistol but I can as a carbine. There is a niche for me for the super-accurate carbines. Generally, you trade off accuracy for handiness, but sometimes you can have both. One of my dream guns would be the Ruger 10/22 light target/varmint which looks exactly like a stock 10/22 but shoots like a race gun. The other is…the Arsenal AK 47 which has been tested at 1 MOA. There is even a California legal model!?!

    Matt61

    • Mike Says:

      The 10/22 shouldn’t be hard to set up. There are good aftermarket barrels that will fit the factory stock. Buy a Wolff spring kit to clean up the trigger. Also, try a number of different brands of .22 ammo and find one that “Shoots like a Race Gun”. One will. Maybe even with the stock barrel. As to the Arsenal AK, it’s a great gun but don’t count on 1 MOA groups with one. It will most likely be 2 or 3 MOA at best out of the box. The AK is known for reliability and “Good Enough” accuracy. That is not a bad thing at all.

      Mike

      • Matt61 Says:

        Mike, no doubt you’re right about modifying a 10/22 as many could easily do. But the appeal of the Target/Light Varmint for me is that it comes all ready to go. This is a specific variant that is pricing now at a little over $300.

        As for the AK, I’ve heard that it makes the trade-off of accuracy for reliability. But whether the low accuracy is intrinsic to the design as implied I’m not sure of. There are lots of references to the loose tolerances of AKs–another factor in the low accuracy. But tolerances are a feature of the manufacture not the design. In fact, Clint Fowler, my M1 gunsmith, told me that one part of his discovery about accurizing M1s was realizing that he did not need badly fitted parts since his rifles were not for combat but competition. So, he refits all the parts of his rifles–reshaping them as necessary I suppose–and that makes a big difference. What if someone did the same for the AK? In fact, what if a tiny fraction of the attention and expense that have been lavished on the AR-15 design over decades were turned towards the AK for us to examine instead of the products of crude workshops that turn out guns for guerrilla fighters? (And Lloyd’s onboard computer too!) Enter the Bulgarian armorers of the Arsenal company. They have reportedly been trained at the Tula Arsenal in Russia that turns out AKs. And they specialize in rebuilding AKs to higher specs. One part of their product line are rebuilt Saigas from Russia which are already at a higher standard than regular AKs. Moreover, it seems to me that in addition to all this, a simple and reliable action would tend to help rather than hurt accuracy.

        Imagine the possibilities. :-) The uber reliable gun turns out to have very good accuracy as well. There are promising indicators elsewhere. I’ve heard the Sig 556 described as a super-accurate AK design and the Israelis have had similar 1 MOA type results with their Galils. I don’t expect AKs to ever equal the AR with its lack of a piston, but it seems like anything less than 1 MOA is essentially irrelevant for a combat rifle. The new Arsenal AKs also look pretty cool tricked out in their new black synthetic furniture. I think this would make for a great story of gun design if these developments came to pass.

        Matt61

        • Mike Says:

          You are right. The AK can be made to be more accurate. The ones I have shot just won’t do anywhere close to 1 MOA (Including the Arsenal) out of the box……..right now. Custom work is another thing altogether. As you noted the design can be accurate. Another system that uses the AK piston is the Korean Dawoo. This one also uses standard AR magazines. Mikhail knew a thing or two about rifles!

          Mike

          • Matt61 Says:

            Mike, so you’ve actually shot an Arsenal AK which is more than I’ve done. Well, it sounds like they are ramping up their improvements. And needless to say, the 1 MOA claims assume a scope, and the improvements in optics are a story all by themselves. I’ll be watching developments. I have a soft spot for this gun because it’s Russian and because it uses a lot of the Garand design. :-)

            Matt61

            • Mike Says:

              Indeed. Also, the AK safety is a copy from the Remington Model 8 semi-auto. No need to reinvent the wheel when something works. If you ever really need a rifle, you will probably want an AK.

              Mike

              • Matt61 Says:

                Mike, another wrinkle in the accuracy question is the choice of caliber. I believe the 1 MOA claims apply only to the 5.56 which has low recoil and a flat trajectory. Not only does the 7.62 X 39 score worse in these categories, but there seems to be an issue of “tapered” ammunition which means something like a reshaping of the ammo for a looser fit in the bore to increase reliability. Not too many details about this, but it certainly sounds like it would affect accuracy. On the other hand, the 7.62 X 39 at least makes sense as an assault rifle cartridge by being hard-hitting within a limited distance and would be my choice for an Arsenal AK. I’m still not sure what the 5.56 is supposed to accomplish outside of being an adequate varmint round.

                Matt61

                • Mike Says:

                  Yes, the 7.62X39 is the “go to” round for the AK. As with the AK rifle, it works. Power level is in the realm of a 30-30 Winchester but somewhat less. The 5.56 NATO does have some advantages one of which would be better accuracy. Most countries have gone too it for better or worse for general issue. Even the Russians now use the 5.45X39 which is very similar. These rounds are lighter so you can carry more of them. Their velocity is higher so you get a flatter trajectory and a high level of shock when a target is hit. Less recoil makes it easy to shoot and easier to control on burst or full auto. Well, that’s some of it anyway.
                  As with all things, it’s a trade off. So, you pick what you think will probably work for your situation and go with it………if you have a choice. It was -20 F here this morning, if I had to be out in that with a rifle defending myself and others, I would choose the AK in 7.62X39. But I am REALLY glad that I don’t have to.

                  Mike

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Webley Tempest & Hurricane owners,

    Pyramyd Air has found a small supply of beautiful rosewood grips for these Webley air pistols in their warehouse. If you’d like to get these for your airgun, act now before they’re gone forever!

    Edith

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    The January podcast is up. Sorry it’s so late, but Tom’s voice comes & goes. It was partially there when he made this podcast, so you might want to crank up the volume!

    Edith

  • flobert Says:

    Man I’d love to have one of those. Without the buttstock on it, just in regular pistol configuration, and a set of Bomar sights. The shown configuration looks too rifle-y to get close to crows around here.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    The Crosman Rogue product page on Pyramyd Air’s site is live. The price has not been set by the mfr, so no price is available on our site.

    Edith

    • Matt61 Says:

      Wow, that rifle looks like something out of Star Wars. Did B.B. say it would be in the $800 range? It looks like a $3000 gun.

      Matt61

  • rikib Says:

    Passing along a thought/quote:

    “If you’re climbing the ladder of life, you go rung by rung, one step at a time. Don’t look too far up, set your goals high but take one step at a time. Sometimes you don’t think you’re progressing until you step back and see how high you’ve really gone.”
    Donny Osmond

    rikib :)

  • David H Says:

    Tom or Edith

    Do you know if there are any plans to offer the Marauder pistol in .177 in the future? 15 ft/lbs. in a .177 pistol would be pretty nice.

    David H

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      David H,

      We have no info on that. It could be that they’re bringing out just .22 now and seeing how the pistol is received before bringing out more calibers. Personally, I’d love to see it in .25 caliber!

      Edith

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      David,

      If that gun were to be rebarreled to .177 the power would drop to around 12-13 foot-pounds. As the caliber and pellet weight increases, pneumatics become more efficient.

      B.B.

    • KidAgain Says:

      … or 20+ in .25cal

  • twotalon Says:

    For those traped indoors in the cold weather and watching more TV commercials…
    I tried one of the new BK Stuffed Steakhouse sandwiches yesterday. Pretty good. Has a burn that sneaks up on you. Keeps burning for a while. Think it would have been better with bacon added.

    The Titan scored 5/5 on starlings yesterday afternoon in the cold and wind.

    twotalon

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      twotalon

      Everything is better with bacon added.

      • J-F Says:

        Bacon is a team player, it’s with everything and can be served with meals all day long.
        It’s good with eggs in the morning, in a beef or chicken burger or wrap for lunch and around a nice chicken breast or a big clam to be grilled it even goes with veggies on salad.
        You can cook it to be more chewie and use it as gum (ok maybe not as gum).
        They used to feature bacon porn in a mag I read (not porn as in explicit movies) they had bacon ice cream, bacon lollipops, bacon fudge etc. Google it. It’ll open your appetite, make you salivate and maybe gain a few pounds… And that’s before even eating it.

        Can’t believe the poor Jews and Muslims who can’t eat it, they’re really missing something. Maybe it’s the reason they are so angry and keep fighting each other…
        Bacon the great peacemaker. Eat bacon and peace will come to you.

        Poor pigs, you know they are very smart animals, apparently more than dogs… Too bad for them they tastes soooooo good.

        JF

        ps : you can tell I truly love the stuff huh

        • KidAgain Says:

          J-F,

          “Eat bacon and peace will come to you.” Gotta laugh there!

          ka

        • pete zimmerman Says:

          I’m not orthodox, but have friends/relatives who are. In fact, turkey bacon is a very good substitute for the real thing, and is leaner. I think it’s actually better on a BLT than pork bacon.

          • pete zimmerman Says:

            The turkey stuff really is good on a BLT. It’s a poor substitute anywhere else. Just personal opinion.

      • Matt61 Says:

        Ever heard of the trick of cooking your bacon and than scrambling your eggs in the grease? A myocardial infarction kit perhaps, but it does taste good.

        Matt61

    • DaveUK Says:

      I have been to Florida a few times and really got into ‘Denny’s diners’ breakfasts.
      They do the Bacon just right (For me anyhow) thin stripped and crispy,not too smoky.
      Well worth the trip.
      Nothing worse than a bit of bacon that looks like a Bull Mastiffs tongue lolling on your plate.
      DaveUK

      • twotalon Says:

        I like it on the thick side, evenly done, and a little chewy. Like cookies the same way. And fudge.

        twotalon

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        You mean what the Brits call “bacon”?

      • Slinging Lead Says:

        I like my bacon anyway I can get it. It’s good on a salad, or dipped in melted butter.

        I’ll even eat Canadian bacon, even though its not bacon at all, but thin strips of salty ham. Maybe J-F or CSD can weigh in about that. I somehow doubt they have “canadian bacon” in Canada. It would just be called bacon after all.

        You have to watch out when cooking it though. Sometimes it explodes violently, and can spatter you with grease, giving some rather nasty burns.

        I bet bacon is good with fudge brownies.

        • twotalon Says:

          Naaa.
          Not good with fudge.
          Pizza, burgers, salads, steaks (with mushrooms too and BBQ sauce), baked beans, meatloaf, breakfast, BLTs, and all by itself.
          But NOT with fudge or chocolate ice cream or cake. It just don’t fit right.

          twotalon

        • Matt61 Says:

          He he. The point about Canadian bacon in Canada reminds me of the question from my 6th grade social studies class: “How do we know that any coin dated B.C. is fake?”

          Matt61

  • Mike Says:

    I like it crispy……….just this side of burnt!

    It’s about “0″ F and snowing here today. So, I’m on the computer and hand loading ammo when I’m not.

    Mike

  • Mr B. Says:

    Hi folks,

    The following is a post from an old blog and I thought that you all can give bryan H. an answer.

    Thanks,
    Bruce

    There has been a lot of information about this rifle posted in the Internet. It seems like people are posting chrony results all over the place, and both the full power and lowered velocity versions are getting around 700 fps. Does the lower velocity titan GP advertise the same velocities on the box as the “full strength” version? I was wondering if this might be a typo on the manufacturer’s part. The ones at wal-mart say “Titan GP” but they also advertise 800 fps with lead and 950 with alloy. I thought that the full velocity version is supposed to be the titan “NP”. Also I was wondering if the lower velocity version was cheaper to produce, but maybe it’s made to tighter tolerances since it cost the same as the full power version? Maybe that’s which the low velocity and high velocity rifles produce the same muzzle energy??? Please help!! i am getting a rifle for myself and an identical one for my brother in law to hunt squirrels together, was going to just get some 2100 classics but for 50 bucks more i could get these and have a lot more power. I’m trying to get him addicted to air rifles so i can have a buddy to hunt with

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    I must tip my hat to Pyramyd Air. I had a rifle coming this week for which I had no appropriate sized pellets. I put in my order Tuesday morning, and the pellet order arrived shortly after noon on Thursday. This is regular FedEx ground shipping. FedEx is a hell of a lot better than UPS (OooPS) in my experience.

    I also ordered a Leapers UTG 3-12x44AO side wheel scope. Very nice.

  • Alan in MI Says:

    BB, Kevin, Victor, and all that chimed in about a week ago,

    If you recall, I had posted about needing to move from my tuned (the custom rebuild kind) Quest 800 to something with some more power and a LOT more accuracy. Thanks to all for your input.

    Well, after discussing it with my wife, we agreed on the wisdom of buying something appropriate off the Yellow. Opportunity presented itself, and I will soon be the receiving a Greg Davis tuned .22 Marauder. It is not adjustable (I don’t plan on messing with Greg’s settings!), but it is a good start, and I can always move up from there if needed in the future – hopefully that won’t be needed, as this is a good chunk less money than an AA S410 or FX . . . .

    But now I need to get a pump, and soon (the gun ships Monday). From all I’ve read, the Hill pump seems to be the best, but I would prefer to buy it from PA. So I was wondering if the Benjamin hand pump is up to the job, or if I should get something else. I’m a little worried about its durability, based on many of the comments on the PA site. I’m not planning on a tank (yet), and have no issue pumping as I am an avid exerciser and hockey player (I am in Michigan, after all) – the workout is a good thing – so I’m clearly looking for pump feedback.

    Any suggestions?

    Alan in MI

    • David H Says:

      Alan in MI

      I purchased a Benj. pump when I got my Marauder. My M-rod was been great, the pump not so much. It started acting up after only 2 months and PA sent me a new one. The second one did last longer with some coaxing on my part but finnally got unuseabe after about a year. At that point I didn’t want another Benj. pump so I ended up getting an FX pump; the 3-stage model. From what I read most people liked either the Hill or the FX units. I can’t tell you about it’s longevity yet, Ive only used it 5 or 6 times so far. My 2 cents.

      David H

    • twotalon Says:

      I have an FX and an Axsor. Both have seen a lot of use and still work (over years).

      twotalon

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Alan in MI

      I received the Benjamin pump with my wife’s Discovery. After 4 or 5 uses, it bit the dust. I sent it back to Crosman, and they had a new one back to me in a week no charge. I have filled my Marauder to 3000 psi a few dozen times, and have filled the Discovery probably 100 times with no issues. I do not use the slow and steady method because I am impatient, and the pump does not heat up.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Alan,

      I have defended the Benjamin pump for several years, but I cannot continue to do so. With all the reports of failures I read, there must be something wrong with them.

      I have never had a pump fail on me unless it was abused. One time a newbie opened the bleed valve with the pump standing on dusty ground and the pump failed immediately. It had operated perfectly for me for 12 years up to that point.

      I own three pumps, an original Axsor, an FX type two and a Hill. Both the Axsor and the FX are now dead, but the Hill soldiers on. It’s about seven years old, and I am the only person to ever use it.

      If you get a pump, learn how to care for them in operation (watch my video embedded in the pump article) and don’t let anyone else use it, borrow it or even touch it. The Hill is a rugged pump that should last a long time. Pump article is here:

      http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/hand-pump/

      I think I need to get a Benjamin pump and test it. When my hernia is better in a couple months I will do it.

      B.B.

  • twotalon Says:

    Finally ran my Talon up to full Condor yesterday morning. Dropped in the 24″ .22 barrel.

    Must have had it set up about right for the 18″ barrel, because the 24″ blew the crap out of my curve and shot count. A little adjustment got a good looking curve and a better shot count, but not nearly as long as I had before.

    twotalon

  • twotalon Says:

    Dangerous situation….
    I left my Titan GP cocked for several hours yesterday. Decided to fire it before I went to bed.
    I switched off the safety, pulled the trigger, and only got a click that I could feel and hear. Clearly the first sear had released, but not the main sear that hooks the piston.
    I pulled the trigger several times before it finally went off.

    I did not do any work on the end of the sear when I was working on the trigger. In fact it was the ONLY place of contact that DID NOT get polished. Moly lube only.

    I think that over time and under pressure, the piston may be biting into the sear and holding it.

    Sear too soft???

    twotalon

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Just a shot in the dark but, i think that your polishing heated the piece up enough that whatever minimal hardness treating it received in China if any, was undone. The trigger sounds like it is biting into the sear. You would have been better off polishing just the sear surfaces. That is the only area I polished on my 1377, the trigger and sear mating surfaces, and they both got a coat of moly grease. The trigger is lighter and smoother, but no chance of accidental discharge. It still requires a substantial (for me) effort.

      • twotalon Says:

        The trigger is not biting into anything. It rolls along the first sear smoothly.
        I never got the sears or trigger hot.

        twotalon

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    For those of you who have looked at the Rogue page on Pyramyd Air’s site, you’ll see that the price field says POR — Price on Request because Crosman has not come up with a price, yet.

    However, if you do a search for Rogue on our site, you’ll see an outrageous price of $8,000. We know it’s there. It’s a bug in the system. Here’s the process: Until a product has been priced, we put in an outrageous price so we don’t mistakenly sell it underpriced should someone mistakenly hit the ACTIVATE button. We hope to have this issue fixed soon.

    Fret not — the gun isn’t going to sell for anywhere close to $8K :-)

    Edith

  • airgunbob.blogspot.com Says:

    wow! crosman is really pushing the limit to the next level!!

    airgunbob.blogspot.com

  • pete zimmerman Says:

    Forgive a dumb question: normally we talk of air guns firing a “pellet,” but Crosman calls the ammo that the Rogue shoots a “bullet.” What’s the difference between a pellet and a bullet, both fired from an air gun?

    -pz

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Pete,

      It’s not a dumb question.

      A pellet refers to something normally fired in an airgun, not to mention a slang term for shotgun shot. A bullet refers to a firearm projectile.

      However, big bore airguns have shot bullets rather than pellets for hundreds of years. They are so powerful that the bullet is more appropriate to them.

      A bullet is solid rather than hollow. That would be the principal difference. And those pellet makers who make solid “pellets” soon learn why pellet guns are not suited to such ammunition. The airguns cannot fire bullets fast enough to stabilize them, and are therefore inaccurate.

      B.B.

  • Mr B. Says:

    twotalon,

    Thank you for your replies to my question about the whys of poor shot groups with some pellets very detailed and helpful.

    If I had to choose between shooting my Talon SS only in its stock form or only with its optional 24″ barrel I’d have to say, with tears in my eyes, with the optional 24″ barrel because it is more versatile.

    I’ve always wondered how well an air rifle would shoot with a 1 in 7, 9 or 10 twist rate epically with heavier pellets or possibly bullets.

    Bruce

    • twotalon Says:

      Mr B.

      There are certain problems with shooting at higher twist rates.

      First, a pellet is designed to be stabilized primarily by drag. Rotation provides some gyroscopic force, but is primarily used to keep presenting air flow over the pellet in a changing direction so that a defect in shape does not cause it to plane off in one direction. Much like shooting round balls ( which are never truly round ) in a muzzle loader or hunting arrows tipped with broadheads ( which are never truly straight on a shaft that is never truly straight). A tighter spiral path to the target is better than having it plane off in some unpredictable direction.

      So what does it take to attempt to spin stabilize a pellet or bullet for an airgun….if you ignore drag?
      Due to the weight distribution of a pellet, you would have to spin it very fast to get enough gyroscopic force to stabilize it. You might have to spin it so fast that it would cause the skirt to flare out .
      Then there is a problem with with imbalance. Pellets are swaged and hollow (to some extent). You can expect them to have some imperfection in symmetry that throws them out of balance. The faster you spin them, the more effect that an out of balance condition there will be. Think of a wheel that is out of balance…the faster you drive, the worse it shakes, right?

      Bullets..
      A solid bullet is intended to use gyroscopic force for stabilization. It has to because drag will not do anything for it. The size, shape, weight distribution along it’s length, and the velocity have an effect on how fast it must spin for best stability. Too slow a spin (understbilized) and too fast a spin (overstabilized ) both cause stability problems.
      So look at this in airguns…
      Airguns have a wide range of velocities. You would have to shoot a bullet within a relatively limited range of velocity to keep it working right. The right twist rate at the right velocity might work out O.K. , but airguns have velocities all over the place.
      Airguns operate at much lower pressures than powder burners. A bullet will not obturate to fit the bore. Just not enough g-forces on the bullet. You would need a bullet that has a VERY precise fit. Too loose…no good. Too tight…deformed on loading. Consider the inconsistencies involved in the manufacture of airgun barrels. Bore dimensions are all over the place.
      Bullets with ridges down the sides something like some of the muzzle loading bullets would make loading an oversize bullet fit a wider range of bore sizes without excessive seating force. They size to fit when you load them.

      Now, look at the extra weight of a bullet has over that of a pellet. You will get much lower velocities than you would have with the higher operating pressures of powder. You get slow.
      Higher resistance in friction due to contact area in the barrel can cause a lot of velocity variation when working with a low pressure curve.

      Big bores shoot bullets fairly well, but look at the size and weight of the bullet. It does not have to spin as fast as a smaller bullet. There is more surface area on the back for applying pressure, so small differences in barrel friction will not have so much effect on velocity as with smaller bullets. Small imperfections in the bullet which would destroy the accuracy in a pellet will be relatively insignificant due to the sheer size and weight of the bullet. A thumbnail scratch on a bullet won’t have any noticeable effect on a bullet, but a pellet? Throw it away.

      I have not even scratched the surface here. I don’t have a PHD in interior ballistics.

      You might be able to get the picture that if you could get everything just right with small bullets, they should work pretty well in just the right gun. Getting everything just right is the problem.

      So to boil it all down, pellets are best left with drag stabilization as the main component, while getting bullets (in small bores) to work right is going to be a SOB.

      twotalon

      • KidAgain Says:

        twotalon,

        Well said. Easily followed and not over explained. I’m impressed, as I really struggle with keeping subject and description flowing and you made it look easy.

        ka

        • twotalon Says:

          I was not even awake good yet. Usually when that happens, I look back over a post and see where i should have been clearer about a few things. Would be nice to be able to edit after a post is made.

          A PHD would say that I oversimplified and left a bunch of stuff out. Well..have you ever tried to read and understand anything about internal or external ballistics? Holy crap. It’s beyond me.
          And I don’t get paid to even guess about it.

          twotalon

  • Mr B. Says:

    twotalon,

    Very well said: Points clearly and understandably made. Thanks again for teaching this old dog some new tricks.

    Bruce

  • daveshoot Says:

    Back on the Marauder Pistol- I will add that #44 is capable of outstanding accuracy at 25 yards, and my very best pellet has been the Beeman FTS 14.3 grain.

    It HATED JSBs. It was just OK with CPHPs, hated Superdomes, and so on (went through 6 or more types myself). Answer: simple, buy more FTS.

    I have been absolutely delighted with the pistol. Long flat shot strings are very consistent from about 2600 to 1900, shooting in the 660-650 range. The trigger is marvelous. It has already taken pest CA ground squirrels and pocket gophers, with authority. This is a very good light carbine under a Hawke 2-7×32, which seems about perfect for it in carbine mode.

  • Manish Says:

    B.B.

    Please request Crosman folks to make a .177 cal version of this fantastic PCP.
    I will be the first from my country to buy it.
    We are not allowed to import .22 cal air rifles and pistols here.

    Manish
    Mumbai
    India

  • Lynx Says:

    I’ve encountered a problem with my Marauder Woods Walker, the pistol grip loosens somewhat over time. I finally fixed that: by dremeling out a small space in the valve body and sticking a piece of flat washer cut down to size and thread-tapped to the new screws that I put in (10-24 in size by the way) after tapping the hole for the front screw and dremeling out the back hole to fit and retapping the cap of the reservior tube. The fix required me to completely disassemble the Marauder, put the piece of flat washer in place as I reassembled it, and, WOW, does that make a difference to how the grip feels in relation to the body of the Marauder! I don’t recommend this fix unless your Marauder has this particular problem though, as you’ll likely have to replace the o-rings in the Valve body and the pressure gauge body, which I would recommend if you do disassemble the Marauder. The o-rings are 9/16I.D. (3/4O.D.) x 3/32 and can be replaced by using a 0584 o-ring from BrassCraft which are available from your local Lowes. I kind of wish that Crosman/Banjamin would fix that somehow, I also wish the they would use 10-24s for that particular position in the Marauder rather than the 8-32s that are used there.

  • Aochuba Says:

    Any chance Crosman will be bringing this pistol out in .177

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