by B.B. Pelletier
Vince is an airgun fixit guru. He’s been on a roll lately and has sent me a number of great guest blogs about fixing airguns, taking junker guns and making them whole again, and making airgun parts.
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email us.
Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them), and they must use proper English. We’ll edit each submission, but we won’t work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.
by Vince
To B3 or not to B3…that, as they say, was the dilemma of the day.
You know, there’s a dark side to being a collector (sort of). I’m up to about 70 air rifles and have room for about 20 or so more, so I’m just sniffing around for stuff I don’t have. I came across a gentleman selling a box of guns, four in all–well, three-and-a-half, actually–for pretty cheap, and I had examples of NONE of them! Two were Shanghai-built Industry Brand B3 airguns, one was an unidentified Chinese sidelever and the last was the action part of a QB51.
I’ll cover the sidelever in another blog, but the B3 guns…What can be said about them that hasn’t already been said? Love ’em or hate ’em (and there’s no shortage of shooters that go both ways), it doesn’t change the fact that I DON’T HAVE ONE. Imagine a rich Mustang collector; he NEEDS to have a 1974 Mustang II Ghia with a 2.3L 4-cylinder and an automatic in his collection. It’s a horrid little car, but that doesn’t matter. There’s a spot for it.
But not two. So, I test-fired the B3s; one’s a .177, the other’s a .22. I ditched the .177. It was actually smoother and more accurate, it wasn’t missing its rear sight, and although velocity was low (no better than the .22, really), it was obviously the best one. I figured I could get $15 for it as opposed to $5 for the .22. I WAS RIGHT! Sold it in no time!
The .22 B3. At least I found a home for my $5 scope!
I’d recently been testing .22 pellets to find out what worked best in some of my lower-powered guns. When I was done, I figured “What the heck? I’ll see what the B3 likes — if anything!” I got exactly 2 shots off before the bad cocking cycle got to the point of “You try to cock me one more time, and you’ll regret the day you were born!”
Hence, my pickle.
I hate to let anything good go to waste. Since I seldom buy ANYTHING good, I rarely get the chance. But, that attitude sorta spills over into the not-so-good, the pretty bad and (not infrequently) the trash. And, so, I started wondering (for some strange reason), if I ought to even put five minutes into this thing. I mean, “time is money, money’s scarce and that ain’t funny!” I never made a habit of taking personal advice from The Kinks, so the B3 goes to the workbench.
The B3 action comes apart in the usual fashion, and the wonders of bottom-feeder Chinese engineering become immediately apparent.
The circles show the half-baked way in which the articulated cocking link is kept in place. No fancy rollers or bearings for the B3! We’ll make do with a plastic button and some perpendicular serrations on the link JUST TO MAKE SURE the button wears out fast! Ah, but they didn’t count on MOLY! I’ll foil their plans for premature wear!
Next, I took apart the trigger. Fortunately, it waited for me. Shanghai uses non-peened pins for the trigger blade pivot and stop, and sometimes everything falls out on its own accord when the action is taken out of the stock. When the gun is assembled, the close fit of the stock keeps them in place. Or, at least, in the same neighborhood.
The trigger.
For longtime readers of this blog, these parts might look just a tad familiar. Go waaaaayyyyyy back to B.B.’s review of the TS45. No, not the one he did in September 2009. You have to reach back to January 2007.
You’ll see the neat X-rays of the trigger. Very similar. If you want to try to smooth the trigger action, all you have to do is smooth the areas circled above. I hope that the hardening treatment at the factory went deeper than .0000001 inches. You could even play with the angles! Given that this is a sliding-cylinder gun that can de-tip your digits, I’m going to leave it be.
Next, out comes the pivot for the cocking lever: a simple screw that also contains the front sling swivel.
The whole cocking linkage assembly just lifts out. That leaves the trigger interlock exposed, which can be yanked after removing the one screw that holds it in.
Tune in tomorrow to see the rest of Vince’s disassembly and the reassembly!
I like any and all of Vince’s posts, most are long and interesting!!! 😉
Vince,
A line from The Kinks??!!
How fitting and funny!
kevin
I LOVE The Kinks. One of the most under-rated bands in my opinion. I never get tired of ‘Destroyer’.
Paranoia will destroy ya!
On the subject of cheap Chinese springers, my younger brother had a breakbarrel with the beautiful orange varnish that he got from a flea market. It was most accurate when you threw the whole gun rather than shoot pellets from it.
He was in his reprobate stage at the time, and got into some trouble with it. My mother did the sensible thing and chucked it out into the driveway, then she ran over it with her Chevy Blazer. Apparently Chevy Blazers are no match for cheap Chinese springers, because it emerged with its operation unscathed. It didn’t do the stock any favors however.
A classic design! One that goes back to the 1950s when the old Lion rifle was produced and which remained in production into the 60s, 70s and 80s, until it was joined by the various B3’s and and DB4s, slightly different designs. I well remember these as a kid in the 1970s shooting at fairground galleries.
The sliding breech design is of course very similar to various German guns, I think it was the Anschutz 300 that first introduced it there. Its ideal for mass produced guns like this though, the compression chamber is the only part that needs fine machining, even the receiver tube does not need to be a solid tube. Its just a rolled and welded sheet on the DB4.
However, do not assume that this is a copy. As I say, these is evidence for the Lion being produced back in the 50s and the Chinese may have come up with this on their own, perhaps Anschutz Weihrauch etc. copied them….. Its certainly not derived from the HW77.
There’s a limited amount one can do with these, but a challenge is always fun. In many ways the perfect way to learn how to work on a spring gun.
Actually, I have an old Chinese-built Sea Lion underleverin my collection. It bears a resemblence to the B3 but there’s not much commonality aside from the general layout. It’s also built better and it’s more accurate.
Ah the venerable B3. So many have been sold! Because they are all wood and steel and look like they are worth the $10 you have to pay for them. Oh wait, $20 to $30 you say. Nah. Just wait for some one who has one wants to get rid of it. Maybe $5 then.
I used to buy them for $5 – $10 and “tune” them a little and sell them for $20 – $25. They are after all pretty accurate if they don’t have issues.
But I soon quit that as it was not worth my time for the little money I made.
Not a collector. Don’t own any now and no need for one.
But still and interesting little gun which is not bad if you are totally broke and only have $30 to buy an air gun.
The Sea Lion and the Lion were different beasts. The Sea Lion is much more akin to the B3 and descedents, while the Lion is big and clunky with a ghastly woodedn stock. As a result few seem to have survived.
Vince !!!
I did not need to see that this early in the morning.
I have one of those orange Cummins Tool ‘rice rockets’ sitting a few feet from my HW. I always make sure of which way to not look before putting on my glasses….to prevent blindness.
Very ingenious ….a finger amputating device disguised as an airgun.
twotalon
Good morning Vince,
It’s nice to hear from you again! Your genius is your unparalleled ability to render an air gun’s quiddity in a single sentence or two. Thank you for your insight into the B3’s trigger’s potential to quickly becoming a tool for the local manicurist.
Do you also collect break barrel Chinese pistols?
Bruce
Vince
Mine does not have the plastic button in the stock for the cocking link to rub against.
Instead, the cocking link is forked instead of both sides mashed together, and rides on a steel pin in the ‘frame’…if you want to call it that.
twotalon
Vince
Colorful writing as usual. The factory that makes these must have “workers” making the B3 guns, and actual, trained machinists making the TF79 and QB78 guns? The difference in quality is night & day. Granted, one is a springer and the other Co2 but… as they say on the ESPN NFL show, C’MON MAN!!!
I’ve read quite a while ago that Industry actually farms out the ’78 series barrels. Don’t know how true that was, but given the fact that they now seem capable of churning out decent barrels on their AR1000’s (and others), I would be surprised if they’re still doing that.
I wonder if those Chinese have all their fingers?
Fred PRoNJ
Vince, is this one actually marked Shanghai or Industry? I don’t think they are the only makers of B3’s.
Still wondering — does it have the IB logo and/or say Shanghai? I can’t tell from the picture. The Cummins ones were coming from Snowpeak at one time, and I saw references to BAM and Norinco B3’s on the YF as well. By the way, you can harden the sear surfaces with Kasenit and a torch. I agree you don’t want to mess with the geometry much.
It’s marked ‘China’, as in ‘Made In’.
Maybe not Shanghai then — the finish and fit looks pretty poor for them, even at this price point. I believe there is a B3 variant marked (? you know the Industry Label) and Shanghai with a long (full-length of barrel) cocking lever that looks pretty nice — I think it was sold as the TF34 by Compasseco. I know it really doesn’t matter to most people, but it would be nice to understand where these things come from, not just dump all the trash into the Shanghai bin and the good (?) stuff into the BAM bucket. One of the neatest things on this blog was when BB did the TS45 and the guy whose father worked at the Taishan factory wrote in — just re-read that comment the other night looking for your mystery sidelever.
Vince:
A great article and if I may say,superb photo’s.
You have captured the quality workmanship a treat 🙂
This rifle is probably the most prolific air gun you will find sold in seaside town ‘Sports’ shops in Britain.
‘Kiss me quick’ hats and B3 air rifles.Everything looks better when you’re on holiday.
They weren’t gonna fool me though…till they dressed it up in an AK47 body.
SOLD!!
DaveUK
Vince,
Nice job. Love your style. Shanghai also makes boats, they’re called “Chinese Junks”. One day they decided to make air rifles, these are known as “piece of Chinese Junks”!
ka
$5.00 ??!! I must have a great B3, ’cause I paid 40 bucks for mine. lol
I was offered one of these at the local fleamarket (scoped) for $150!
No sale.
Les
Must’ve been a damned nice scope…
Vince,
Another fun article. You are hereby crowned Guest Blogger king.
I’m anxious to hear the latest from the SHOT Show. I’m particularly interested in the new airgun that Crosman will be unveiling. There have been thickly veiled hints from Crosman such as, “This new introduction will make the .25 cal Marauder envious”. Considering that I’ve shot an amazingly accurate .25 cal Marauder I can’t wait for the details.
kevin
Okay…THIS HAS TO STOP!!!
I succumbed and ordered a Umarex 1911 last Friday, which arrived this morning.
Nicer (IMO) than the Beretta I recently purchased and way more substantial feeling than the CP99 (which will become a birthday present…my oldest turns 10 on the 18th).
There is only on problem. In the 1/2 hour I’ve had it I have been overtaken by the desire for a ‘real’ (as in .45) 1911.
All of a sudden I see what the bru-ha-ha is about these guns.
So the question is…how much Mac & Cheese do I have to eat to make up the $1000 for a .45?
.45’s are great. Shoot someone’s competition gun shooting “full house” loads and you’ll understand. Or, just get a Sig in .40 and it’ll do that right out of the box.
CSD,
Take my advice and get a Taurus PT 1911. I has all sorts of problems with mine, but I solved each one and now I shoot the Taurus in preference to a $2,300 Wilson Combat CQB.
B.B.
Thanks B.B. I remembered that you mentioned a 1911 that you were happy with in one of your previous posts…I was going to try and find that tonight when I had more time.
By the way, how is the Arizona tradgedy being played up in the news down their, gunwise?
Here in Canada the cry has already gone up in the media how this proves guns should be completely banned.
CBSD,
I can’t imagine anyone thinking there are too many guns. Just imagine if a person with a CCL had a gun and could take down the crazed shooter at that mall.
Some time ago, I recall there was a situation (and I thought it was in Arizona) where a nutball had a gun and started shooting inside a fast food place (I thought it was McDonald’s). One of the patrons was a chiropractor, and she had a CCL and a gun in her purse. She took down the shooter and was thankful she had a gun and could save so many lives.
Edith
Now THERE’S a chiropractic adjustment you don’t often see…. 🙂
Edith,
That actually happened here in Texas.
B.B.
CSD,
Here is a link to the last part of that long report:
/blog/2009/7/b-b-trusts-his-taurus-pt1911-part-8making-lemonade/
B.B.
Rock Island Armory, Springfield Arms, Legacy Sports, and more and more and…
Get to a BIG store with lot’s of brands and look them all over. Also, be sure that magazines and other parts like grips are interchangeable across 1911 platforms.
The current crop of 1911’s is the best ever from almost all of the makers. Wilson & Kimber no longer hold (all) the cards in this game.
CSD,
Take BB’s advice about the Taurus! I was going to reply and tell you no need to spend $1000 just to get a good .45 what with the Taurus, but BB already did it.
And as BB said, a “real” competition grade gun will go $2000 on up to maybe $4000. And most people won’t be able to shoot it better than the Taurus PT 1911.
So save your self the extra money to use for ammo, and when you can compete and win in state or national matches, THEN buy your competition gun as you will know what you REALLY need then.
CBSD,
Welcome to the 1911 got to have it club! I Love mine! I bought reloading dies for .45ACP and cleaned cases all weekend for reloading. Going to use Father-in-laws press this weekend. Can’t wait!
ka
You expect that excellent $5 scope to last on a springer, any springer? I can’t get a scope to stay put on my Gamo Delta, which is NOT a powerful gun.
Vince,thank you for sharing so much of your experience and expertise with us.I admire your ability to
take on really challenging projects.Here is a pretty good question for you.If I have a couple Marksman
70’s with “Perfekt” trigger units,can I swap “Rekord” trigger units for them easily?
I believe it is, and I intend to try the ‘Perfekt/Rekord’ swap between an R10 and HW30 sometime. I suspect that the only catch is the safety – it would need another hole drilled in the tube, and at an angle (tricky to do).
Thanks for the answer.Interesting point:I have a Marksman 70 .22 with the safety lever on the left side,but my .177 has the same lever on the right side.
SlingingLead,there are no Sheridan Supergrades in my collection,unfortunately.I am trying not to buy
any more airguns right now…..I promised myself I would put some of my treasures back in circulation
and shoot the remainder as much as possible.Unlike Vince,I don’t have room for 20 more!I could easily spend a year studying the ones I have,a very enjoyable year at that.
Love your sense of humor, Vince…very droll. Thanks. I actually owned one of these once. Bought it at an ‘everything’ store in the N Calif mountains back in the ’90s. My first (and last) underlever. Fun to shoot but pretty much towards the end of my list of go-to airguns.
Wow…what a great morning.
As per my previous post my Umarex Colt arrived this morning.
Just got an email…the day out at the tank barns at Edmonton Garrison (which includes a ride in a Leopard tank for my boys and myself) is happening this Friday.
Really…does it get any better? 😉
That Umarex 1911 is a fine piece of work.
Next best air pistol to the S&W 586 that Umarex (Walther) makes!
Your gonna want the target adjustable sights next$$!
Looking for advice from those that have it.
I’ve been shooting a tuned Quest 800, and despite much work and practice, can only get it really only seems to be able to hold about 1.25″ at 20 yards benched indoors over 10 or more shots. I have had 5 shot groups as small as 1/2 inch, but it just can’t deliver the accuracy consistently. Honestly, I know I am probably not a great shot, but with the Quest I just can’t see a path to improvement – it would be great for just plinking, but that is not the primary purpose of the air gun: I have two pest problems that I use it for: groundhogs and red squirrels. I need a little more power for the ground hogs, and much better accuracy for both. And better accuracy for the holes in paper that I love to make will be great too!
I have been dreaming of a .22 Marauder, but now that I may be close to getting permission from my wife to acquire a new gun, I’m really starting to rethink the switch to PCP and all the costs that go with it – I have no problem with the cost of the gun, but almost doubling it for the pump and all is tough to swallow. This has me thinking of getting a used RWS 48 or 52 off the Yellow classifieds. That would let me try it to see if it fit the bill, and if not, re-sell it at some point to make the switch. I just don’t see me acquiring many more guns in the future, especially PCPs, so staying with springers may be the way to go.
Would the RWS 48/52 fit the bill, or am I wasting my time?
Alan in MI
Alan in MI
Feeling a little tormented today?
I don’t know much about the Quest 800 except, it is not exactly on par with a TX200 or other finer Euro guns right? What was the tune work done to the gun? Pro or DIY tune? Is it behaving better or worse since the tune? Are you using the same hold technique or have you changed that? Consistency is the goal as you have noted. I too can live with a larger spread or group, but consistently. I can’t live with .375 ctc groups followed by .975 ctc groups. Sounds like this is your frustration too?
Generally, you must repeat every nuance of the “benchrest” that got you the best groups. Same leather bag? Towel over leather bag? Forestock forward on bag? etc etc. This is the downside of springers, finding and then repeating the perfect hold and all of it’s components. This is what is making the Discos and M-Rods sell like crazy!
Yes, PCPs are a big investment. $500 min for the gun, $275 min for the SCBA tank & gear, etc etc. And for the very best stuff, $2500 is normal for all the gun and gear. But… the pay-off is supreme accuracy and more importantly, the shooters influence in the whole accuracy picture is reduced significantly. If you can manage your breathing and have enough upper body strength to hold the weapon, you can shoot one hole targets all day long (assuming a good scope and your good/corrected eyesight).
Thanks to all for the input. And I am tormented.
The tune was professional, with new delrin guides made. I know it sounds like trying to make a silk purse from a pigs ear, but the factory spring broke and buggered things up inside. It was either start over, or put a little more in it.
The firing cycle is awesome, and the velocity is very consistent, but I think the limitation is the barrel – not very consistent when I’ve pushed pellets through it.
I’ve tried every hold in the book, and taken copious notes on each to find the best. With the best hold it puts abut half the shots in a tight groups, but the other half – who knows (including my comment yesterday about ones where I think I flinched and it flies into the tight group). FYI, my longest shots are probably 30 yards, given my property (suburban neighborhood with large lots).
I do like the springer feel, which is why I was thinking about trying a better, more powerful one, but the hold sensitivity would be there. I guess the best answer is to jump to the best answer – the Marauder. But I’m still tormented . . . .
That leads me to another question – after shooting a PCP, is it OK for the gun to be pumped back up to a near full charge and stored, so that it is “shootable” when needed quickly in the future? I know they are stored with pressure in them, but is 3000 PSI OK, or should it be more like 2000?
Alan in MI
Yes, I have kept them fully and partially charged for long periods of time. Some degree of charge is actually preferable for storage. Whatever the max operating pressure is, it is ok to leave for extended periods in normal temps.
Having said that, I wouldn’t leave a PCP at 3000 psi in a car trunk in Phoenix in mid July.
Although I don’t own one, the Marauder is one of the best entry-level PCPs around, bar none. Also, you can build it to your liking (down the road) with all of the aftermarket mods, parts and toys that are showing up on the forums and the net.
Other upsides to PCPs: Any scope will work because you have no spring recoil (not that you want a Tasco 4x from Wallyworld at $18). Nearly any scope mounts will work (given some level of precision in the mounts) Pellet selection is (usually) a less fussy ritual due to consistency of the power-plant and lack of other variables like recoil, etc. PCPs are a natural platform for a good Bi-pod (springers are not) Depending on maker and stock type (wood density) most PCPs are lighter than their springer cousins, especially in pounds:fpe. .22 calibre is one of THE best selections in most PCP makes & models, not so in springers (swept volume and transfer port geometry doesn’t transfer well from .177 to .22 just by installing larger barrels, Gamo is notorious for this)
So, did you pay for 3 day shipping on that new Marauder or were you willing to wait a whole week!? Ha-ha.
Brian,
You forgot to mention how quiet the Marauder is, even in .22. If you’re a back yard shooter or a pest control rooter this is the only gun for you!
-Chuck
Hah! Did I say only gun? I think we know better.
-Chuck
Alan,
I always leave all my PCPs pressurized to the max. It’s a good maintenance trick.
B.B.
PS others may see it differently, but the few 48s and 52s I have shot have fairly heavy recoil. I wouldn’t see these as replacements for your 800 and accuracy issues.
If you are going to use it for pests, get a PCP, assuming you can’t use a .22LR (or better for the groundhogs). The hold-sensitivity is great for training, but why mess around with it for actual work? A .22 cal. Marauder sounds like a much better match for what you want to do, even .25 — don’t know about the groundhogs, even then; less than I like to hit them with :). Accuracy will be an aid to your task rather than an end in itself. You can always sell it and buy a springer if you don’t like the PCP.
Alan in MI, in my experience the Q800 is, for some reason, harder to shoot than the Gamo it’s copied from. I’ve had the same sort of trouble with consistency as you’re experiencing with oh, the 2 or 3 that I’ve had. Don’t know why.
Yes, the Diana sidelevers do recoil harder – BUT – they certainly are easier to shoot well. It’s a heavy gun, but relatively short and with a center of gravity that is closer to the shooter than on, say, the Diana 350 (which makes it balance well). So in that respect it’s not as difficult to handle as the weight might suggest.
I have a pair of Diana 52’s. One in .177 and the other is a .22. I like them both. The .177 is scoped and the .22 only has the factory open sights. The are heavy, they weigh more than my old Winchester Model 70 30-06. But they also shoot well. I often use the .177 for squirrel elimination. Head shots are not a problem at 15 yards shot off hand with a side support rest. I wear a glove on my support hand for this. There is a fair amount of recoil but I don’t mind this as it’s a lot less than firearms. The .22 is used “in the field” as it’s easy to transport in a case while in the vehicle with no scope in the way. Also, I just like to shoot open sights but have thought of adding a Red Dot sight, a small one. They aren’t the best guns for hunting if your are walking about looking for game. But, they work fine if you are in a more or less fixed position. For me, if I need more power than these, I’ll switch to firearms.
Mike
Alan,
“I just don’t see me acquiring many more guns in the future, especially PCPs, so staying with springers may be the way to go.”
Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, is it?
You are going to own lots of airguns and you will eventually come over to the “dark side.” When you do, and you find out all that you’ve been missing, you will lament the time that has passed when you could have been enjoying unparalleled accuracy.
Yes, get a 48/52, but never for an instant think of it as a substitute for a rifle that can group five shots inside your wedding ring at 40 yards.
B.B.
Alan: Then again, that wedding ring that BB noted may be only fit for target practice after the wife finds out you have that new, $2000 PCP rig hidden in the closet!
I have previously mentioned how much my wife hates guns of all kinds. Any more than a few – ones that she knows I’m getting ahead of time – and I’ll be heading to divorce court. That is something I want to avoid, so I’m not delusional in saying I’m only getting very few more airguns.
Alan in MI
BB pondering here…
I have heard very little about any new developments at Air Force, whether a new style/model or, it would seem more importantly, a multi-shot version of the Condor or Talon?
The AF guns are terrific but, multi-shot seems to be where most makers are headed or have already arrived? Will you let us know what you see/hear at SHOT Show?
Brian,
That’s a big reason why I go to the SHOT Show. I will be visiting the AirForce booth as one of my first stops.
B.B.
BB, Will you be attending the Vegas SHOT show?
ka
More accurately asked… Are you referring to the Vegas show?
KA,
Yes, I make every SHOT Show.
B.B.
Thought this was rather amusing in a way:
“Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?”
George Carlin
rikib 🙂
rikib
Good point. From my observations ‘freedom fighters’ do exactly that, fight freedom. If you want somebody to fight for freedom you have to look to the American, British or Australian militaries. Always pulling somebody else’s butt out of the fire.
Hey SL,
Thanks for the acknowledgment 🙂 . I’ve been off the blog/forum for awhile, seems it has changed quite a bit from what I have heard through the grapevine, not as jolly. I guess all things change, I’ll still try and post a quote or two health permitting. Try and bring a smile to someone’s face 🙂 !
rikib
rikib,
I guess you took the jolly with you when you left. Thanks for offering to bring it back. How ya doin?
-Chuck
Chuck,
Sorry, had to leave for awhile. I’ll try and be back to provide a smile 😉 to someone’s face with an off the wall quote.
rikib 🙂
And prize fighters???
And what about Foo Fighters?
ka
Vince,
Thanks for the blog. I have one of these B3’s with the same scope in the garage attic. If you show us how to make it fire only when the trigger is pulled, I think I’ll be obligated to waste/spend some more time on it. That would be quite helpful.
Nice job again,
Lloyd
Look at the pic of the trigger parts, where I circled in yellow. That’s where the problem is. The angles are wrong or something is badly worn. The ‘QF2’ cleaning/parts kit includes a replacement sear (the upper part) and spring, so I suspect that these are high wear items on the B3.
Vince,
Got it!
Thanks for the advice.
Lloyd
Alan in MI,
You’re in a very similar situation that I was several years ago when it came to airguns.
My primary motivation in buying A (one) airgun was pest elimination. I quickly learned that I also enjoyed shooting for accuracy occasionally and plinking with the gun. Cheap and fun hobby when the pests were not around.
I also quickly learned that I made a poor choice of an airgun since it wouldn’t perform all these tasks well and did poorly at some. I boarded the airgun information train and hoped to be headed to the destination of that one airgun that could do everything well. Many, many airguns later I still haven’t arrived at that destination but I’ll share some of my sights and experiences along this journey.
Your groundhog problem is a major sticking point to me in finding a “do all” gun DEPENDING upon range. If you can take these pests out at a range of 40 yards OR LESS I think there are several guns that can also perform the rest of your tasks well (red squirrels, plinking, accurate paper punching, etc.)
There are “magnum” springers that can take out your groundhogs. The tradeoff is that with magnum springer power comes hold sensitivity AND cocking effort. You sacrifice a fun gun to target shoot and plink with since it will wear you out in cocking effort and eventually recoil will get annoying. I don’t have a “do all” recommendation for a springer including the diana 48/52 (and I’ll throw in the 54). Can’t recommend the 48/52/54 since I think you’ll be disappointed in other departments of use.
I’ve read your comments twice and surmise that you already know a pcp is your solution but you’re fighting it because of tank/pump cost on top of the investment of the pcp itself. Understood. I fought it too. Eventually, I sold the other airguns I acquired (read multiple mistakes/disappointments) along with several other items that I had laying around and bought a pcp and a pump. The right pcp will absolutely knock your socks off for ease of accuracy and allow you to recoup most if not all of your investment when you decide to sell it (the money’s not gone if you buy the right pcp it’s just sitting in a fine airgun that will perform the job of pest elimination and give you hours of enjoyment as a bonus).
What’s the right pcp? I’m not going to sell you a certain gun since I don’t get paid a commission for doing so. Instead, I’ll offer insight. The Marauder is quiet, cheap, doesn’t have external power adjustment and potentially accurate. Many have had accuracy problems. Mostly .22 cal but some .25 cal. As a first pcp I would suggest an FX Cyclone or AA S410 rifle (not carbine). Both of these guns have a long history of being accurate out of the box, are relatively quiet, have external power adjustment features, are multi-shot and have great re-sale value.
I tout external power adjustment since this allows either the cyclone or s410 to be 10 guns in one. Want to plink? Dial them down and have R7 power. Want to shoot red squirrels? Dial it up and have R9 power. Want to shoot groundhogs? Dial it all the way up and load it with kodiak pellets.
My 2 cents.
kevin
Kevin,
As usual, your two cents are priceless . . . . thanks so much for taking the time to write it.
You hit my situation dead on. And all of my shots at groundhogs are well under 40 yards; mostly likely under 30 yards.
I love the S410/510 (not having actually ever held one), and am especially attracted to the external power adjustability. But I don’t think I can justify twice the price over the Marauder for that factor. As you say, it will hold its value, but lets recognize that I am never likely to sell it, since I doubt I’d ever have a need for anything more.
I guess I’ll just have to make a decision, and convince my wife to let me do it. That won’t be a quick process, so don’t expect a post soon about how I’ve gone and bought one 🙂
Thanks to all for the great input!
Alan in MI
Alan in MI,
I’m not here to sell you an S410 or cyclone.
It’s not just the power adjuster that commands twice the price for a AA S410ERB. The fit and finish of the stock are more than twice that of a marauder. In my hands the marauder feels like a 2 x 4. Cosmetics and functional fit aside, the real value is that the S410 and cyclone are historically accurate out of the box.
Your half price marauder could be accurate out of the box. Many aren’t though. If it isn’t crosman has been very good about replacing barrels and even guns. There were so many marauders that couldn’t shoot accurately that one tuner (greg davis) built a business around accuracy tuning marauders. He’s no longer taking new marauders in for tuning and his turnaround is about 9 months. He’s taken on another tuner (Roald) to help with the backlog.
In reading between your lines it seems you’re fed up with accuracy issues related to your quest 800 and seem ready for a gun that will shoot without fiddling. These are the primary reasons I recommended the s410 and cyclone and for me the primary reasons it’s worth twice the price. Research the used market and you’ll see that those buyers agree too.
Good luck in your quest (pun intended! LOL!)
kevin
Way off topic.
Kevin , there is certainly more than 2 cents of value in your advice.
Hope everyone is doing well. Personally I’ve had a rough start to the New Year. Here is my two cents worth:
When I called to wish my mother Happy New Year on the first, she did not pick up the phone.
However, I was not too concerned since we had just had her over for Christmas dinner Saturday and she was feeling great. Then on Wednesday my girls had gone over to help her with chores, and they reported that Grandma was in an exceptionally good mood. I thanked them for going without being asked.
It is not unusual that she sleeps through the phone ringing, as she tends to keep odd hours, but just to be sure my wife and I drove over. When I saw three newspapers outside door, my thoughts changed immediately. Knocking drew no response. Since one of my sisters had the spare key I looked for an unlocked window. I was inside in less than 3 minutes and found Mom on the floor in the bathroom, we called 911.
Looking around the apartment, my heart continued to sink. The cat’s food and water was completely gone. The answering machine had a message from Thursday afternoon – Mom missed her beauty shop appointment. Every week I go over on Thursday, but with Holiday and the girls having just gone over I did not. None of us had. I could not believe she had been on the floor for two and half days. But then it got worse. There was no trash in the kitchen waste can; the girls emptied it on Wednesday afternoon. The lamps were on in the living room. My wife grabbed the TV guide; mom circled the shows she wanted to watch and then crossed them off as she watched them. Nothing was crossed off past 9:00 PM on Wednesday.
The diagnosis was a massive stroke, the outlook was grim. The only comfort the doctor offered was that she had undoubtedly been unconscious the entire time. This is where the advice comes in. Mom had done a fair amount of estate planning, but did not have a living will. Everyone should do this. Never take for granted that you can do it later.
This past Sunday when I went to the hospital, I knew as soon as I walked in the palliative care room. I sent my wife running to get a nurse, but I knew. Sometime in the 10 minute window when my sister left and we arrived, Mom decided to leave for heaven.
I apologized again for not finding her sooner and told her I loved her.
Volvo,
Sorry to hear of your mom’s passing. I can relate. Just don’t beat yourself up for making mistakes over this… they’re not mistakes. This is the way of the end, sometimes it comes when it can and rarely when it ‘should’. You’ve done well for her and she’s thankfull, no doubt.
Your advise for having things in order and a living will is spot on, thanks for sharing and God bles you, brother.
ka
Volvo,
I’m sorry to hear of your loss. I understand why you feel bad about the way it happened — there’s no other way for a decent person to feel in the face of such a loss, but its not your fault. From what I know of you, she’s happy looking down on her progeny.
Volvo
My most sincere condolances to you and your family. You all will be in my prayers.
I am very sad to read this Volvo.Your mother raised a very good person.You have given her much to be proud of,including wonderful grandchildren.She will continue to watch over you all….and I’m certain
you will know it.Please be well Frank B
Volvo…
Sorry to hear that.
I have lost both parents now. It’s never easy, but you know it will happen sooner or later.
I wish you well.
twotalon
Volvo,
I am so sorry to hear that your mother has passed. Your grief is heaven’s joy…she’s gone home.
Knowing you only through this blog, I’ve come to the natural & obvious conclusion that your mother was a delightful woman who swept happiness into the lives of others, leaving a trail of joy and love behind her.
Edith
Volvo
My deepest sympathy for the tragic loss of your mum.
Please accept my prayers.
DaveUK
Volvo,
I am so sorry for what you have gone through. But know this, things happen this way and the person in your mom’s position is not aware of anything transpiring.
You now face a long period of grief that is impossible to avoid. I am so sorry for your loss, but I know that you know your mom is better off right now than the rest of us. Eventually we are all going to pass that way.
I second what Kid Again said about not beating yourself up. You did nothing wrong and your mom was proud of you and your sisters to the end.
May your heart be healed as soon as possible!
B.B.
Volvo,
I’m deeply saddened by this news.
Losing a parent is one of the toughest times in a mans life when he must grieve and also be strong for his family at the same time.
I’m sending you a prayer for strength and a private email.
kevin
Volvo,
My prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time. Our Lord will watch over you and your family and give each of you the strength to comfort one another.
Bruce
Volvo,
I am also sorry for your loss.
As difficult as the situation in finder her was, take some solace in the fact that she was able to live her life independently up till the end. I have too many friends whose parents are living, but unable to do hardly anything for themselves. Being independent caries these risks for all of us, not just our elderly parents.
You are in my prayers.
Alan in MI
Kevin,
What a great answer! You said all the things I was thinking, but could not put into words.
Thanks,
B.B.
Accidents happen.
Mr B.,
Interesting you should tie Chinese break barrel pistols to the cheap B3. They are pretty much similar in manufacture to the B3. All wood and metal and cheap!
I just sold a TF S2 and a TF 35 on the yellow. I was getting ready to pack them up to send them and asked the wife to help me carry two guns and all the packing materials upstairs. She asked what gun and I pointed to the TF 35 and said “That one.” She said “wait I thought you were selling both for $35?” That gun looks way to nice to sell for $35 alone.
My wife knows nothing at all about guns. But she already has it set in her mind that a wood and metal gun is “quality” versus the many plastic ones I have which she calls junk!
Anyone have or know about: /product/utg-4×32-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa-1-tube-3-8-rings?a=3015
Will the rings that come with it fit on a Crosman Raven(are they the skinnier rings or the wider Weaver rings?)
Conor
P.S. the rings in the link say 3/8″ what I need is a 11mm rings. Are they the same? Will the 3/8″ fit when I need 11mm?
Conor,
3/8″ = 9.5mm. 9.5mm is real close to 11mm. These rings will fit either an 11mm or a 3/8″ dovetail. Unless stated otherwise, all the 11mm or 3/8″ rings will fit either a 3/8″ or 11mm dovetail. Generally speaking, we use 3/8″ and 11mm interchangeably when it comes to dovetails.
Incidentally, the scope you’re referencing has a parallax setting of 35 yards. Just wanted to bring that to your attention. It’s a low-power scope with fixed magnification, so the parallax setting might not make a big difference for the distance you plan to shoot.
Edith
Conor,
Have you looked at the Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO Rifle Scope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1″ Tube?
I’m using a couple of them and they’re a good scope for the money with an AO down to 6 yards. I you can afford the difference in price, give it some serious consideration.
Bruce
Mr. B,
Yes I’ve seen it, although I’m looking for a scope for a Crosman Raven. That scope would be better on a longer and more powerful rifle.
Edith,
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
Thanks,
Conor
Anybody married? 🙂 🙂
“I am” is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that “I do” is the longest sentence?
George Carlin
rikib 🙂
I have a b3-1 that I have had for over 15 years, and it finally quit. When I go to cock the under leaver, it doesn’t engage anymore, it comes right back up to the position under the barrel. Is there a fix for this? Its my childhood pellet rifle and I would like to keep using it. Its a .177 Cal. Thanks for any input
Impossible to tell without more info. To complicate things, different rifles were sold under the B3 label.
Do the trigger parts look like the ones in this picture? If they do, you can get a spare sear and spring in the QF-2 cleaning/spare parts kit. That might do it.
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