by B.B. Pelletier
Before we start…heads up! Pyramyd Air has a shipping promotion going on. Instead of buying $100 to get free shipping, you have to buy only $50 in merchandise to get free ground shipping. This special promo is valid on Jan. 6-7, 2011, and is available only for addresses in the lower 48 states. You cannot combine coupons with the free shipping offer.
Photos and testing by Earl “Mac” McDonald
Mac’s little sheet metal Hy-Score 805 air rifle is quite the looker.
Remember that I’m accelerating this report, so today we’ll do both velocity and accuracy. This is really parts 2 and 3, combined. So, please don’t knock yourselves out looking for Part 3, because there isn’t going to be one.
Mac figured that this powerplant is weak enough that it’s only suitable for lighter-weight wadcutter pellets, so they were the only ones he tested. And, when he shoots for accuracy, it’ll be only at 10 yards. We’ll begin with H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets that weigh 7.56 grains.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
These lighter wadcutters averaged 402 f.p.s. with a total velocity spread of 15 f.p.s. The spread went from 391 to 406 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 2.72 foot-pounds.
RWS Meisterkugeln Pistol pellets
The lighter 7-grain RWS Meisterkugeln Pistol pellets averaged 372 f.p.s. with an extreme spread of 13 f.p.s. The range went from 366 to 379 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 2.15 foot-pounds.
RWS Hobby pellets
The funny thing is that with 7-grain RWS Hobby pellets, the velocity average jumped to 389 f.p.s. The spread was 22 f.p.s., ranging from 371 to 393 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy with this pellet was 2.35 foot-pounds.
RWS HyperMAX pellets
Mac found that RWS HyperMAX pellets were not suitable in this gun. Their velocity fell far below that of the much heavier Hobbys.
Mac reports that all pellets were loose in the bore, which he felt might affect their accuracy. That’s up next. He shot 5-shot groups outdoors at 10 yards using 10-meter rifle targets The temperature was around 28-deg. F, but the gun had loosened up during the velocity testing. Please revisit Part 1 to see how crude the sights are.
Finale Match Pistol pellets
Right off the bat, Mac shot the most accurate pellet of the test. To his surprise, H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets put five shots in a group that measured just 0.56″ at 10 yards. Not too shabby for a smoothbore toy-like gun!
Five shots in 0.56″ from a smoothbore at 10 yards! That’s some shooting!
Next, he tried the Hobbys. They didn’t do nearly as well, grouping five in one inch at the same 10 yards.
An inch at 10 yards is more like what you’d expect for a smoothbore at 10 yards. RWS Hobbys.
The last successful pellet he tested at 10 yards was the RWS Meisterkugeln. Though it doesn’t look all that different than the other two, it grouped five in 2.15 inches, due to what looks like a flier, though Mac did not call it.
Now the pellets begin to scatter. Five Meisterkugeln grouped in 2.15″ at 10 yards.
Well, this has certainly been a delightful look at an airgun many of you were not aware of before now. The whole thrust of this test was to see how accurate a smoothbore is, and I think we did that. In fact, we were surprised with how accurate it can be at close range.
We were also impressed by the build quality and the quality of the finish on what was considered almost a toy 40 years ago. This hobby of ours certainly contains a large universe of possibilities if guns like this can abound.
B.B.
A correction to your post. You said: “The funny thing is that with 7-grain RWS Hobby pellets, the velocity average jumped to 789 f.p.s. The spread was 22 f.p.s., ranging from 771 to 793 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy with this pellet was 2.35 foot-pounds.”
I think you meant to say that the velocity average jumped to 389 instead of 789.
Conor
Connor,
Good catch. I’ll correct it later today.
B.B.
Conor,
Fixed all of these. Thanks for alerting us.
Edith
I never would have noticed that. Sharp eyes 🙂
Mornin’ BB
I remember you saying that you would be reviewing the Tech Force TF79? I’m considering it for puchase and would like to know if the peep has enough range adjustment to zero at 25 – 30 yards. If you have already completed the testing without shooting at that range your best guess would be fine.
Thanks, David Holmes
BB
I forgot to tell you I’m looking at the .177 cal.
David Holmes
David,
I start the TF 79 in .177 tomorrow, and luckily it is the target model. So I will check out the peep adjustment for you.
B.B.
BB
Thanks, and looking forward to your report.
David H.
I’ve shot them and I believe it has a wide latitude of adjustment so I would say yes to 25 – 30 yds.
pcp4me
Do you recall if you shooting off of 12 gram cartridges or bulk? Also, your general impressions of the gun would be great.
Thanks, David H.
David H,
I shot it with both CO2 cartridges and bulk fill. I think I was getting at least 40 shots off two cartridges, but bulk fill was where it really shined. It has a gas release “key” and if you use that at beginning to allow some CO2 to escape and make the gun cold you can get a lot of CO2 (70-90 grams) into it and get over 100 shots with 90 grams of CO2.
This gun is absolutely the most accurate gun I ever owned. I loved it, but it had one bad fault. The seals from the factory were pos and did not usually last 500 rounds. I owned three and sent every one back because of this.
Now I have a solution. Soon as I get the money, Mike Mellik is going to tune one for me including much more durable seals. I already have the bulk fill stuff for it so he is going to do it for an insanely low price.
If you buy one, replace the seals with good ones, or have Mike or some other tuner do the work. Nice thing about Mike is he does not charge you if you buy the gun from him and his prices are sweet!
By all means, buy one. Even if you have to pay $199 with tuning it is still a freaking amazing gun! Other tuners charge that and it is worth it, but Mike would only charge you in the $169 to $189 range, depending what you want done.
Not bad for a smooth bore. The Crosman 760 may have been another possibility for smooth bore testing.
My old Benji pumper was smooth bore. The only pellets I could get were the old Crosman wadcutters. Not very accurate. Steel BBs were terrible. An old bag of lead shotgun BB shot worked very good. It loaded tight.
twotalon
TwoTalon,
I was going to suggest the 760 myself. I have found it to be surprisingly accurate, for being a smooth-bore. I actually didn’t know it was smooth-bore until much later.
Victor
B.B.
I’m briefly “back from the grave”.
So, I stumbled upon some interesting pellets from JSB.
They are called JSB Exact Monster, each one weighing .87 g (13.4 grains) in 4.52 (.177 cal)
I guess that’s another perfect subsonic pellet for .177 spring monsters like that Remington we discussed and high-power hunting PCPs. A guy from our forum tested them on his Kalibr Cricket and he reported +3Joule compared to Premiers Heavy on the same tune , with less than 20 mm groups @ 53 meters.
Well, I hope I’ll be completely back soon.
duskwight
duskwight,
Always good to hear from you. I haven’t seen those new heavy JSBs yet, but the name is the same as the .22-caliber pellets that weigh 18.1 grains. So we should see them here soon, I hope.
B.B.
duskwight,
Good to see you back.
Glad to hear someone has a gun that shoots the JSB Exact Jumbo Monster pellets accurately. I bought a tin of these in .22 caliber that weigh 25.4 grains. I’ve tried these in a S410, HW100, tarantula and a ranchero. Terrible accuracy at 50 yards and beyond. 10 shot groups were twice the size and in some cases 3 times the size of groups shot with their favorite pellets.
kevin
Kevin,
My Benjamin Katana will group five JSB Monsters around .8″ c-t-c at 50 yards. My old HW77 also shoots them well, but slowly (only 450 fps).
Paul in Liberty County
Paul,
Are these .177 or .22?
kevin
.22 I will test the .177 version, once they become available.
Paul in Liberty County
kevin
You should notice that pellets tested were in 4.5 mm caliber, named without using “Jumbo”, had a bit different shape etc. And he used them in a specially speed-tuned airrifle.
In your case poor performance may be a result of speed mismatch. As far as I remember, heavier pellets tend to be more sensitive to this in means of accuracy and .22 seem to have another picture of speed decrease, so, maybe they just lost stability too early. Did you change speed settings while testing?
duskwight
duskwight,
Thanks. I haven’t tried any in .177.
kevin
Morning B.B.,
Who’d have thunk that little gun would have grouped that well? Yes Conor had a good catch my coffee deprived brain missed it.
When will we see the accuracy report for the Marauder pistol? Thanks
Bruce
Bruce,
Crosman just sent the new scope mount to me yesterday. I hope to shoot it next week and maybe do the report then, too.
B.B,
Altho it’s now far in the past I recall being pleasantly surprised by pellet accuracy from my smoothbore Benjamin M-340.
Some pellets (which ones I no longer recall!;o() were surprisingly accurate out to 15 yards or a bit more—-certainly good enough for small game. Certainly superior to a Daisy (Turkish) 1000 and a Gamo ‘Big Cat’ that I’m currently futilely trying to accurize!
I’ll have to re-visit it come warmer weather to see how it likes RWS round balls.
B.B.:
While I still miss the Airgun Letter—both the print version & annuals & forum—-I still support your decision to end the forum. The way some posters treated Ethel was so far beyond good taste and reason that I frankly have no concept of how the 2 of you were able to tolerate it as long as you did!:o(
Cheers! Tom @ Buzzard Bluff
Tom @ Buzzard Bluff,
Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with the Gamo Big Cat. My brother bought one, and it shot pretty good from the box rested. But the horrible trigger hampered off hand accuracy. I bought and installed a CDT GRT III trigger for him and now it is super nice.
He can shoot about 2″ rested groups at 50 yards but I can get 3/4″ rested groups at 50 yards. When it came to shooting I have always been way ahead of him all my life, but when it came to fishing that boy kicked my fanny!
So basically I feel the Big Cat is very accurate. Putting the GRT III on the gun was all I did beside putting some moly on a q tip and spreading that all over the spring from the outside.
The Big Cat looks cheap, and sounds cheap when cocked or fired. But basically it is a great critter getter out to 50 yards for small and medium sized game with head shots.
Robert sent this question to the wrong address, so I am reposting it here.
I have a Tempest S/N 025207. Can you tell me the date of manufacture and was it made in the US or UK. Webley could not help me. Also what do you think it is worth. Thanks
Robert,
All Webley Tempest pistols were made in the UK. No Webley pistols were ever made in the U.S.
Can anyone help him on the manufacture date?
A Tempest in perfect condition will sell today for $100-125. With the box and all the papers, add $25.
B.B.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207644408
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=194021495
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=200077286
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=208128115
B.B.,
Thank you for this, and all posts really. All of us appreciate your insight and opinions around shooting and air gunnery in particular. The series on your Ballard is probably my favorite, your groups turned out spectacular well. I hope to see a follow up when you find your favorite load.
Now that I have you sufficiently buttered up, I need your advise on a recent purchase. Mailed from across the country with the muzzle hanging out of the box, a fairly beat up late eighties .22 cal Diana 52 showed up at my door after a surprise win(?) from gunbroker. The seller did not misrepresent the condition of the rifle, although they did advertise it as a .177! Not a really a problem, although I was going to try my hand at field target if everything worked out with this thing. After bending the anti-bear trap lever back into operation, the cocking and shot cycle was smoother than I expected, but the velocity just seemed off. I don’t have a chrony, so I compared penetration in modeling clay against my newish(still dieseling) R7. Both guns produced nearly identical penetration distance using boxed Crosman Premiers. With this information, can I assume the 52 is producing the same-ish energy as the R7, like 6 ft-lbs? The 52 seems to group well at ten meters, so I guess the crown survived USPS. Get to the question already! If you never had a spring gun apart before, would you build a spring compressor, buy a bunch of new guts, refinish the stock and bluing, take this thing apart only to pay someone to put it back together, or just cut my losses and buy a different gun? Thanks for your patience B.B., I appricate the wisdom you or anyone else wishes to offer!
-hm
If I may chime in…
First, your assumption of comparable power because of comparable penetration isn’t really valid. Assuming the R7 is .177, you have to remember that the cross section of the .22 is about 55% greater, so it’s going to take a fair bit more energy to bury the pellet in as far. You really need a chrony to see where things stand.
Second, there is a fair chance that it is shooting a bit slower than it should… old springs can certainly take more of a set as time goes on. And it might have a breech seal issue to boot. Main seals on Diana’s usually last pretty well.
Although I believe that .177 is preferred for FT, I believe a ’52 in .22 cal tends to be more valuable in the general marketplace. You might do well with your idea of selling and buying something else. Is this the one that sold for $110 about 3 weeks ago?
Anyway – I might be able to help you out a bit more. If you want, email me at vfblovesnancy@yahoo.com.
Vince,
Thank you for your reply. The cross section argument makes sense, I guess renting a chrony at the range is in my future. Yes, its the same gun you’re thinking of. I really appreciate offering up your email, that’s cool. I’m not really sure what I’m going to do with this thing yet, possibly trade fur something…
Will it blow a hole through a pine board ? it should.
twotalon
Hank,
I think you have the makings of a classic rifle here. The older Diana mainsprings are notoriously too hard and will break off an inch from either end. Sometimes both ends! That makes them cock very easily and shoot very smooth.
I think you should make a rudimentary spring compressor and replace the mainspring.
A .22 model 52 is far superior to a .177, so once again, I think you have lucked out.
B.B.
BB – since he’s interested in FT, do you think he’s better off selling the .22 and getting something in a .177? I don’t know how useful a .22 is for FT.
Vince,
Well, if field target is the overriding factor, then yes, sell the rifle. I was just complimenting him on a good buy.
But you can’t compete in FT with anything but a .177, and the RWS Diana sidelevers are wonderful FT rifles for the springer class.
B.B.
The BEST solution, of course… is keep the 52 and buy another gun for FT… and so on, and so on, and so on…
Edith…
Hear anything back from PA about those oversize FTS?
twotalon
Thanks for the reminder that I haven’t heard anything back, yet. I sent another email to them. Both you and Alan in MI sent info about these pellets.
Edith
Did Alan have the same s/n pellets that I do?
twotalon
I don’t remember.
Edith
Twotalon,
The S/N on the wider heads is 81297, and on the smaller heads is 82929. The wider ones match some 5.55 H&N FTTs that I have in performance and feel, as well as with my limeted micrometer.
Shed me and e-mail at amcd1709 at comcast.net if you want to discuss where I the H&Ns, since it is not PA – I would prefer PA, but they are rarely in stock.
Alan in MI
The oversize FTS (Beeman) that I have are s/n 02438.
I have only ordered FTS a couple times.
I am waiting for the H&N FTT 5.53 to come back in stock to give a try. Also waiting for the H&N FTT in 4.50 to be in stock again. Have plenty of pellets for now, so not in any big hurry. Not exactly great shooting weather outside.
I gave up on using a micrometer for measuring pellets. Too unreliable.
I went to a digital caliper. Preset the caliper, then lay the pellets flat and scoop them straight up. The head will fall through or it won’t. Three or four different presets may be required if you want to get it pretty close….going up .01mm at a time.
Using a caliper this way makes sure that the heads are measured at the widest point, and that the head does not get squeezed a little giving a false reading like you can get with a mike.
Some digitals can be pretty flaky. I got mine at a NAPA store. Did not cost all that much, but seems pretty consistent. I repeatedly checked it against a set of feeler guages, and it works pretty good. Can’t say if the next one off the shelf would have been worth a crap or not.
twotalon
The 5.55s work great for me in my tuned Quest – best accuracy and best power too.
I’ll try your suggestion on the micrometer. I do have a digital one, but it only dispays to 0.1 mm, but does show .001 inches, so I just use that.
I’m now delayed in shooting anyways, as the spring broke in my gun, and I need to rebuild my 1322. I’ve contacted the tuner of the Quest to find out what he used – I think it was a Maccari Tarantula – so I can order one and get it running again. I need to use the right kind as he made custom guides for it while it was apart.
I’m hoping to also use this situation to convince my wife – who hates guns of all kinds – to let me get a more accurate, quieter, and slightly more powerful gun, since the main purpose (from her perspective) of having it is as a critter getter for getting rid of the ones that tear up the property. I’d love to get an Air Arms 410/510, but will likely “settle” for a 0.22 Maurader due to the cost difference. Of course, I just love shooting, even at paper . . . .
Alan in MI
Would have gotten back sooner, but have been busy serving breakfast to the starlings. 13 of them found their meal to be a little too heavy.
twotalon
Yes……it begins. The year’s first Red Squirrel just was removed from my bird feeder. RWS 52 wt. JSB Diabolo Exact Heavy .177 Cal., DRT (Dead Right There).
Mike
Alan,
If you get a .22 Marauder you are not settling for less than the best. It may not be as shiny as the European rifles, but it will shoot right alongside them and it has a better trigger and quieter operation, in my opinion.
B.B.
Thanks for the input, BB. That helps a lot in the decision.
The “shiny European rifle” bit does not have any financially justifiable appeal to me (too much of an engineer, I guess), but I did think that there was a good bit of functional difference with the side lever, and accuracy wise too.
I guess the one thing that I would miss would be the easily adjustable power level. 95% of my shooting is paper at 20 yards, so it would be nice to set it up to shoot to POA on high power with a good PBR, and then practice on paper with low power at 20 yards, accepting the POI change. The Marauder’s adjustments seem great for tuning, but do seem to be intended to be set and then left alone. Probably not worth twice the price, everything else being equal.
Alan in MI
I was given a HS 805 by my uncle when I was 10 or 11 years old. I was just mesmerized by its dark beechwood( I think) stock and blued metal. Nothing like my Daisy Red Rider carbine. It would actually shoot hard enough to embed bb’s or pellets into soft pine. With 50 years younger eyes, I was more accurate with those smooth bore bb guns than I am today with my much more sophisticated air gun arsonal.
Regards,
Fred
would like to know procedure on the benjamin 30/30 loading airgun
thank you vin
Vinny,
Unfortunately the Benjamin 30/30 is an airgun I have no familiarity with.
Why don’t you post this question on the current blog, located here:
/blog//
I’m sure one of our many readers can help you, but only a few of them ever read these older reports.
B./B.