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CO2 2014 SHOT Show: Part 3

2014 SHOT Show: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Mea Culpa!
You know, Babe Ruth was the home run king of his era. But he was also the strikeout king. Sometimes when you swing for the fence, you get fanned by the pitcher. I’ve done that a couple of times in recent reports.

The AirForce Escape SS has a 12-inch barrel. I said it was an 18-inch barrel, but several of you clever guys spotted why that could not be. And, while I was starting to redden from embarrassment in the AirForce booth, John McCaslin also took the opportunity to inform me that what I wrote about the Escape valve is also incorrect. It isn’t different than the TalonP valve — it is identical. So, gather a crowd and paint me red…I goofed!

The Escape has a 24-inch barrel, the Escape Ultra Light has an 18-inch barrel and the Escape SS has a 12-inch barrel. All 3 rifles come in either .22 or .25 calibers and no others.

The $100 PCP
I’m happy to report that Crosman is taking the $100 PCP project seriously. They will look into the possibility of making such an air rifle, but that doesn’t mean they have made any decisions to proceed. A lot of things must be taken into consideration beyond the fact that it might be possible. Don’t any of you start a clock on this! I’ll continue to test the rifle I have, and we’ll leave it at that.

Mike Mellick (Mike in Iowa) did come to Las Vegas, and we had a meeting. He showed me 2 examples of the rifles he’s currently selling, and we talked about my testing one for a feature article in Shotgun News. I plan to present the entire $100 PCP project in that article, which I think will be in the July 2014 color issue.

Okay. On to the new stuff.

Leapers is going to introduce an upgraded line of optics later this year that they’ll call the T8 line. They’re trying to offer optics as clear and sharp as those currently being sold for tactical use by Law Enforcement. They want to give $2000 worth of value for something in the $200 price range.

The first scope will be a 1-8X that fits the tactical scenario very well. If you’re in the CQB team, you run your scope on 1X and have a wide field of view and rapid acquisition. If you’re in the overwatch team, you’re running 3-4X and cover the door-breakers. The snipers sit on the high ground at 8X, watching everything.

I looked through a prototype scope, and it was clear as a bell, but the development is not quite finished. After it’s announced later this year, they’ll move ahead on a 2-16X scope to compliment the first one.

Leapers T8 scope
Leapers T8 scope line will offer upgraded optics.

I saw many products at Leapers this year, but the one that surprised me the most was the little peep sight they developed for a number of firearms. It’s so small, yet it adjusts in both directions. I asked if it could be made for airguns because then people wouldn’t have to root out the sides of their wood stocks to make room for the elevation slide — not that I’ve ever done that!

Leapers small peep sight
This peep sight is made to fit Weaver bases, but imagine what you could do with this on an airgun!

Air Arms
I saw the new field target rifle being offered by Air Arms. The FTP 900 is a purpose-built target rifle suited to knocking down those pesky steel targets. Short for Field Target Professional, the FTP replaces the EV2, their longtime field target competition rifle. It’s loaded with features. But to sum it up, this rifle is adjustable! It’s completely ergonomic, so it can be adjusted to fit the shooter like a glove. If $2,500 seems a lot to pay for an air rifle — just try winning the World’s with something less!

Air Arms FTP 900 precharged pneumatic air rifle
Air Arms FTP 900 is the newest field target rifle in the Air Arms line.

From the Czech Republic came the KalibrGun company with a range of precharged pneumatics. According to their spokeswoman, the specs are fluid, but they did show a bullpup called the Colibri, assumedly after the world’s smallest (2.7mm) firearm. It’s a tiny thing they’ll offer in .177, .22 and .25…but they were somewhat vague on the velocities as apparently some things are still in flux. Besides being a bullpup, it’s also semiautomatic! Unfortunately, it takes a 300 bar (4,350 psi) fill according to their literature (the sales rep told us that 250 bar is recommended), so I don’t know what the U.S. reception will be.

KalibrGun Colibri bullpup repeater airgun
The KalibrGun Colibri is a semiautomatic bullpup.

BSA & Gamo
BSA is located in the Gamo booth, and they keep secrets about their products better than the National Security Agency! I did photograph the BSA Buccaneer SE for you. It appears to be a precharged carbine and I’m sure that someone in the world knows something about it, but they weren’t in the booth at this show either time I visited. Perhaps the intelligence community will discover something about this airgun at some time this year. If they do and I learn of it, I’ll be happy to share it with you.

Years ago, when BSA was a UK company, the airguns they made were well-designed and had remarkably accurate barrels. Let’s hope some of that tradition has carried over to the newest crop of guns!

BSA Buccaneer air rifle
The BSA Buccaneer SE is a pretty little PCP carbine. It looks like it can shoot!

As far as the Gamo guns go, I couldn’t make out what was new and what wasn’t. A lot of them were on display, but the confusing plethora of names lead me to abandon the quest. When Pyramyd AIR gets some in this year, I’ll test some of them for you.

Crosman got a healthy exposure in the first report due to the Nitro Piston 2. But I didn’t get the full tour until the third day of the show. Let’s start with the AK BB gun that everybody was talking about before the show. It’s called the Comrade AK and is a semiautomatic BB gun that gets 150 shots per 12-gram CO2 cartridge. Yes, that was the number I was given for a 400+ f.p.s. BB gun!

Crosman Comrade AK air rifle
The Comrade AK BB gun is semiautomatic and gets 150 shots per CO2 cartridge, according to Crosman.

I was also shown the new 760 that has been redesigned for greater velocity and easier pumping effort. They lengthened the pump handle to lighten the load and strengthened the pump rod and pump cup to make the mechanism more efficient.

There are also a couple airsoft guns I’m really excited about. One is an automatic electric pistol that fires both semi- and full-auto. There aren’t many full-auto handguns in the world, so I’ll let you decide which one this looks like. I hope to test one for you soon.

Crosman GFAP13 CO2 BB pistol
The GFAP13 BB gun is semiautomatic and gets 140 shots per CO2 cartridge, according to Crosman.

There’s also a Chicago Typewriter (Tommy Gun) that’s a fun AEG. It has an 800-round BB drum that winds on the outside — just like the real thing! I want to test one of these as well.

Finally, I saw a very neat looking CenterPoint dot sight that has a laser built in. So, it’s both a dot sight and a laser sight! I don’t think I’ve tested one of those before! This one is a high-quality holographic unit.

Crosman dot sight
CenterPoint dot sight features both red and green dots, as well as a red laser!

Well, this is the last day of the 2014 SHOT Show. If I see anything new today, I’ll stick in one of the reports next week.

119 thoughts on “2014 SHOT Show: Part 3”

  1. Hi BB,

    Did you by a chance see a new AA S510 Ultimate Sporter?
    If not, will you be able to ask them when this model be available in US/Canada?
    And if it will be available in FAC…?


    • Ariel,

      I will go to look for it this morning. And I’ll ask about the plans for Canadian distribution.

      I do know that Air Venturi is trying to get Air Arms to make a sporting version of the S510 that can retail at a lower price.


  2. Greetings Fellow Airgunners
    Part three and the final day of Shot Show 2014. I’m almost sad to see it all end. Today’s offerings are no less amazing then the past two. As of this writing, I notice there are over 100 comments to yesterdays blog on Shot Show. This is the most comments for a single days blog I have seen in the 5 years I have been reading this blog. It looks as though there is a lot of interest in airguns for 2014. We may look back on this year as being the beginning of a new airgun renaissance. One can only hope.

  3. B.B.

    Kalibr is actually Russian and made in Czech Republic 😉
    They chose the name just because it sounds similar to the name of the business and starts with “C” letter, Colibri is their rather new product. Their other product is Cricket PCP platform – also starts with “C” and it’s one of the most widely used PCP guns here.
    Kalibr guns have built themselves quite a reputation, being precise, reliable, and well-built. As for specs – I can look for them if you like. I’ve seen them hitting targets in 200+ m in open air in .25.
    Fill pressure of 300 bar is within reach of Hill Mk.3 fill pump (I myself use it to fill my guns, op. pressure 275 atm with pressure regulator down to 110 atm). I use it for the sake of number of shots from a limited volume reservoir, I believe Kalibr uses 300 bar for the same reason.


    • Duskwight is right the KalibrGun Cricket bullpup (and rifle) is one of the highest selling PCPs of 2013 on most of the major AG forums and if the Colibri is anything like its big brothers in terms of accuracy it will sell like hotcakes. I originally bought their Cricket bullpup in .25 and quickly sold my other PCPs to fund another Cricket bullpup in .22 and am eagerly waiting for their .357 version and the release of the Colibri. For a long time I was under the assumption/tutelage that a diablo pellet is most stable in flight at speeds under 900fps but the Cricket .25 comes spitting JSB Kings at 950fps and 60 shots with a 250 bar fill and is a tack driver. I bought my first Cricket from Steve Smith at Wild West Airguns and the level of customer service and support from them is amazing!

    • The Kalibr Colibri has created lots of excitement over the past 6 months here in the USA. Colibri translated means Hummingbird.

      The Colibri is a little airgun at 29″ OAL but surprisingly heavy at 6.4 pounds. The specs for the Kalibr Cricket and Colibri are the same for a fill pressure of 300 bar but the best fill for the Cricket is 240-250 bar. Hope it’s the same for the Colibri but we’ll see. It’s unclear if the Colibri is regulated like the Cricket is regulated.

      Estimated price for the Colibri introduction into the USA is $1100-$1200USD. Seems low to me especially if the Colibri is regulated but we’ll see.


    • Ah, but what did they base the name on?

      A hummingbird? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colibri_%28hummingbird%29

      Cigarette lighters? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colibri_Group

      In 1974, for the James Bond film ‘The Man with the Golden Gun’, Colibri supplied the golden gun, which was constructed from a Molectric 88 lighter, cufflinks, cigarette case and fountain pen.

      Or, as mentioned, a small pistol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_mm_Kolibri (which was, itself, named after the hummingbird) (Wow… a centerfire cartridge of ~.11 caliber… That’s not even a mouse-gun…)

      I sure hope no one was so delusional as to have named it after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

  4. Man O man BB you were busy doing this report.

    I’m overloaded with I want this time.

    I’m going to have to start selling some of the stuff I don’t want anymore. Or force myself to start working the over time again. Wait a minute tax time is coming up. Maybe the tax man will be good to me this year.

    I cant wait to take a look thru one of the Leapers T8 scopes. And if it is that clear the price is right. Yep I want one.

    Then the KalibrGun Colibri. I haven’t shot a bullpup. But this sure would be the one I would like to try. Any time the words semi-automatic and pcp are used together to describe a gun it gets me excited. As long as no batteries required. (Does the Colibri use air or is it mechanically operated to cycle the action?) Yep I want one if its not battery powered.

    Luv the pistol. And I can live with a automatic Tommy gun being battery powered. Both guns sound like they could be alot of fun shredding cans. Yep I want them both.

    And do you know how many bb’s the magazine or reservoir holds in the Comrade AK rifle. Yep I want one of these too.

    And on the CenterPoint dot sight I really like the idea that they combined the laser and dot sight together. That is a very good way to use both at the same time to teach some one to shoot. You can watch the laser while they are lining up their shot. Then you can see if the gun twitches when they fire and also see if they follow through after their shot if the laser is still on the POI. I hope they make it so it will mount to the different style rails. Probably want a few of these.

    The FTP 900 has just way more adjustment options than what I need. But that’s what them Field Target Pro people like. It does make for a unique looking gun though. Nope not for me.

    And I can’t tell if the BSA has a shrouded barrel or not. If it does I could like it.

    • GF1,

      I have had trouble with my posting and could not get back to you on this.

      Do not use a .177 Disco barrel for your TSS kit. The LW barrel sold by AF and PA is one of the best air rifle barrels in the world. If you simply cannot stand to have a LW barrel, hunt around for an HW barrel. It is the other best air rifle barrel in the world.

      • RR
        I’m a big fan of the LW barrels. That’s usually the first thing I look at when I by a airgun is who made the barrel. If its LW then I look at the rest of the gun.

        But here’s the problem AirForce doesn’t have the barrel I’m looking for. This may sound crazy but I want the longest barrel I can get in .177 cal. If its 30″ long or longer so be it.

        I’m probably doing this a little different than most people but that is going to be my long range barrel. I think most people probably like the bigger cal. pellets for the long range stuff. But I want to do it different this time around. And I’m not talking 50 to 75 yards. I want a good flat shooting gun that can get out to 150 yards or even farther if I feel like testing myself.

        Yep I want to use a .177 cal. heavy grain pellet with a lot of velocity. But back to the barrel. If you have a suggestion of were I can get that long of a barrel that I can do some machine work on Please tell me.

        • I am afraid you are not going to be able to shoot long range with any kind of accuracy with .177. I am speaking from experience. I bought my TSS used. It was equipped with a 25″ .177 HW barrel and a high flow valve. It hurled 16 grain Eun Jins downrange at 1140 FPS. The problem was you could not hit anything with it. By putting an o ring behind the top hat I was able to drop these down to 800 FPS and get 1″ – 2″ groups at 50 yards, but everything else was still going supersonic.

          If you are going to want to shoot long range with an air rifle you are going to have to go big bore. Most who use the AF frame go with .257 and cast their bullets. You will also need a custom valve and hammer and a new spring.

          Their used to be a guy who cast custom slugs that would work in the .25 LW barrels and some guys were able to get 1 MOA out to about 300 yards with them, but their AF rifles were hopped up some and he no longer makes these.

          .177 is good out to about 25 yards. By that I mean 1 MOA groups. At 50 yards, those groups are likely to be opened up to 2 MOA or bigger. .22 can give you 1 MOA at 50 yards. BB has shown us that in his tests of the Talon SS. The winner of the Extreme Benchrest this year was shooting .30 JSBs at 75 yards.

          If you want to enter the Pepsi Can Challenge, you are going to have to go custom big bore. The present PCC record holder is 614 yards with a .257 Scandalous.

          • Thanks RR and BB

            I think from what you both told me I will probably then go with the .25 cal. LW AirForce barrel.

            I don’t know if you remember in the past that I was interested in the swaging bullet articles.
            This is why. The long range shooting. With the .25 cal. LW Airforce barrel I can just buy it and slip it in. Then I wont have to worry about doing machine work on the barrel I try to find. And I can still make pellets or buy what is available.

            Oh and I don’t want to set no records. I would just like to be able to have a option of stretching out the gun on some long distance practicing from time to time.

            • Because the LW barrels are choked, you will not be able to use cast or swaged bullets in it unless you cut off the choke section, re-crown it, and cut a lead-in in the chamber end. Before you go to .25, get a 24″ .22 barrel and play with it for awhile. You will find it will keep you very happy for quite some time. In the meantime, dig real deep around in the Talon Airgun Forum. You will find a lot of very useful information. Yes, you will have to filter out a lot of mud, but it will be worth it.

              • RR
                Im happy with the info I get here.

                And I think I will leave the swaging and casting out of the equation.

                Maybe the .22 cal. 24″ AirForce barrel is the ticket then. Definatly more pellet choices in .22 cal. thats for sure.

                • Something to always keep in mind is production lags desire, not only in air rifles, but throughout. There is a very nice selection of high quality pellets in .22, but not as much in .25 and only one or two choices in .30 and up. I have seen the top pellet manufactures in the last year or so increase their offerings in .25 as they saw the demand increase. Soon you will see an increase in the offerings in larger calibers. This is why I said go with the .22 now and let the manufacturers catch up some.

                  This past Spring I sent an email to AF for John McCaslin with a suggestion for a new model he could introduce this year that would not require he interrupt present production. I suggested he take the Talon P and bring out a carbine version. Many do just that with their Talon Ps. Now we have the Escape. He has yet to add the 22 CI tank as I suggested, but as more customers do such I am sure AF eventually will.

        • GF1,

          Maybe I can save you some time. Mac wanted the same thing, and so I built him a special .177 Condor with a 25-inch Lothar Walther barrel (when I still worked at AirForce). What he found was it was great out to 75 yards with 17-grain pellets, but he could have done the same thing with a 24-inch barrel, too. He never tested it beyond about 80 yards, at which distance he was able to hit an American quarter.

          It is my belief that 24 inches is about maximum for the .177 caliber. Beyond that, the compressed air doesn’t flow fast enough to be of benefit. In .22 a slightly longer barrel is more effective. As the caliber increases, the length of the barrel can increase, too.


  5. Oh good Lord, my bleary, just out of bed eyes. That semi/full auto AEG pistol had me take a very quick second glance, as on first glance the G didn’t quite look like a G and the F looked a little like an R. Still, it’s made my morning.

    Air Arms is still sending out back orders for their FTP 900 in the UK for it’s proven to be very popular as it seems to live up to it’s hype, but their main seller will always be the s400 PCP platform in it’s many guises. A Crosman 760 with more velocity sounds interesting, i might even get one when they finally come out, i am rather fond of multi pumps after all.

    Someone could start or improve their home industry with a peep sight for air rifles along with a matching front sight, that is if Leapers don’t actually don’t do it them selves. I pick up a lot of old 70,s springer’s with missing open sights and it would make an interesting option to buying spare original sights, i have an old Relum underlever with a sort of peep sight set up and that, for me, is a lot more accurate than traditional open sights.

    Though i’m not really impressed with the look of the AK BB gun, i am impressed with the shot count off one 12 gram cartridge. They really do appeared to have pushed the boundaries this year at Crosman, and i bet there’s more to come with new models. Top report yet again B. B. Thank you.


    Best regards, Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe.

  6. B.B.,
    You must be feeling like a kid in a candy store. Glad to see that Crosman is having a look at the $100 PCP.
    Question: If we were to increase the length of the barrel can we increase the velocity while keeping the fill pressure at 800 psi???


    • Pete,

      I will answer your question very specifically. Yes, a longer barrel will increase the velocity of a PCP at any pressure, including 800 psi. But don’t look for Crosman to make that gun. To get performance at 800 psi, the valve has to have an extremely long dwell time. I’m not sure a conventional valve can be made to work that way.

      In the 1700s, makers used a valve that was opened by a cammed pair of levers that swung through a long arc. That’s what gave them the dwell time. They weren’t trying for that — it just fit what they were able to do with the technology of the time. But today it is too costly to make a valve like that.


      • Maybe it’s time to borrow from various military firearms…

        A port near the muzzle which feeds air back to a piston that /closes/ the valve.

        Boy, I wish I had the skills to prototype that for a patent (obviously not the aspect of porting gases to activate a firearm bolt, but for an air gun… that may be new). Something new for Duskwight to do?

        • It sounds like you are talking about 2 different things.

          The first statement I think you are talking about reverting the air pressure to help propel the pellet.

          Then the second statement if I understand you correctly has been done by FX.
          The FX Monsoon cycles the bolt with the air pressure in the shroud. The Fx Revolution uses a muzzle brake type design with a air pressure tube the cycles the bolt.

          If that is what your talking about.

          • I was responding to the “long dwell time” aspect… Current airgun valves “pop”, opening from the striker, and then closing when some combination of internal spring and pressure counters the impulse from the striker.

            To get more/longer open time I’m suggesting a valve that doesn’t really close on its own. The striker knocks the valve open, and it stays open until some external force toggles it closed. That external force would be bleed air from near the muzzle fed back to button/lever of some sort (this design would also need some manual closing ability too, in case the back push failed to close the valve — and the user has to push it before all the air in the tank rushes out… which may also imply a flow regulator, maybe pressure regulator too).

            You’d want it adjusted so that the bleed air closes the valve before the pellet leaves the barrel, allowing some pressure decrease to quiet the muzzle blast.

            • Ok that is what I thought you were talking about.

              That is why I thought the electronic valve that is operated by a a computer would work great for different types of guns. You know like what the Benjamin Rogue uses. That way you could program the duration the valve stays open. That is what they do with the fuel and nitrous solenoids on Drag cars. Maybe the computer controlled valves could work also with what your talking about.

                  • Gunfun 1,

                    The CDT, MVT and MCT were the evolution of electronic airguns that Daystate built. I don’t remember what the letters stand for. I think MCT is Map Compensating Technology?

                    These guns contain electronic sensors and control the valve with a selonoid that gives great shot count and consistency. I had a .22 cakliber MCT for awhile. Two power settings. On low that gun gave around 200 shots at 28fpe and on high 120 shots around 35fpe with a single digit spread in velocity. Other guys said they got around 38fpe on the high setting but mine never did. Trigger was around 5-6 ounces but because it’s an electronic trigger it felt like clicking a mouse connected to a computer. No feedback.


                  • Many things. In a nutshell the electronics were simplified. The CDT and MVT had too many electronic gizmos/offerings. 17 or so power settings, on board chronograph etc. the early versions had bad battery packs that leaked, etc.

                    The MCT did away with the onboard chronograph and had only two power settings. High and low. Nonetheless, my gun had to be sent back and the circuit board was replaced (luckily free of charge since it had a three year warranty).

                    I don’t say these things very often but stay away from the Daystate CDT and MVT and for that matter their gran prix.


  7. I want that AK BB gun! At first I tought it looked too small but seeing it in someone hands it looks nice, I want it.

    If that Kolibri was sold in Canada under our 500fps limit I’d want one too, imagine the shot count! It looks very good.

    I’d like to attend the SHOT show one day, It must be like walking thru candy land.


  8. BB,
    I think you and Edith need to take a week off to recuperate after the SHOT Show. Did you happen to see Les Stroud, aka Survivorman, at the Camilus booth? I saw in a You Tube video that he was there promoting his line of knives.

    David Enoch

    • David,

      The SHOT Show is broke out with celebrities and personalities. I haven’t looked for any of them, but they are all over the place. The biggest attraction is the gang from Duck Dynasty, of course.

      So, no, I haven’t seen him, but then I didn’t go to the Camilius booth. Just getting to the places I have been has taken all my time. I have walked right by the booths of gunmakers that I wanted to see. There just isn’t enough time to do everything.


      • BB,
        Are like companies grouped together at SHOT or are they just all mixed up? If you have the experiences I usually do I find the neatest stuff in unlikely places. It’s a shame the show isn’t long enough to get to see everything. Thanks for passing neat stuff up to get us the airgun reports we crave.

        David Enoch

        • David,

          They are not only scattered around, everyone has signs that reach to the ceiling, so you cannot see very far jn the room. But the major booths cost six figures to rent, so these guys fight for the same space every year. I have memorized the layout of the Sand Convention Center that has hosted the show for many years, so I don’t get as lost as I used to.

          On the last day I go walking among to lesser known booths and the brand-new dealers. I often find good things, as happened on Friday. So watch Monday’s blog for a final show update, along with the regular report.


  9. In speaking to a well-known online firearms retailer, Umarex GM made this statement: “We produce a high-end product in Germany,” says general manager Olaf Beisheim. “We’re not interested in making cheap products in Asia.”
    Just checked, every Umarex product I own is made in Asia. I like that the airgun industry is getting notice, I don’t like being lied to.
    If you happen to see Olaf slap some honesty into him.

  10. OK. I have seen a few things this year that I really want. I love my AK47 so I really want that AK bb gun for my collection. I see it as a tool to give me some practice when I can’t fire the real deal. Naturally I have the new airforce model locked onto my radar as well, Also liking on that centerpoint dot sight, but a bit on the fence with that too. The Air Arms is a beautiful gun but no doubt priced well above what I can afford. So I now have 1 airgun and one airgun build to get into. I’ll likely get a talon and then accessorize since all the pieces are already available. Then it will be like several guns in one.

  11. The Leapers T8 should be worth watching. Until now, the wall has been at about 3.5-4x range of magnification for usable clarity on both extremes of its range (3-9x, 4-12x, 4-16x 8-32x, etc). Any more than that and the image becomes muddy and basically useless at the extremes of its range unless a lot of money is spent on more optical elements and design. The T8 boasts an 8x range! Double! If Leapers can pull this off cheaply, it’ll be the greatest thing since peanut butter!


  12. Last word about the gas ram in HW90. A article about Theoben Evolution( in American Classifieds),clearly states that The owners of the English company got the idea while fixing his Suzuki motor cycle etc..Theoben patent his gas ram in 1982. And goes on about the other air guns including HW90 that they made. Weihrauch shows the HW90 after that date more like 1990. But today date I got email confirmation Hans Hermann Weihrauch wrote that the HW90 is made by us and is still available. Maybe I should have been more specific with my question

  13. BB
    First I like to say thanks for all the help you and everyone else gave me on my RWS 350 magnum. I’ve corrected the bent barrel issue and scope issues . The rifle shoots fine and no problems with my scope. Since then I bought a Benjamin Trail NP XP in .22 cal changed the trigger and its another good powerful gun but I still want more! I’m planning on switching to PCP looking very hard at the FX Royale500 .25 any feedback on this gun good ,bad ?

    • Stan,

      Since no one has answered you let me share what I’ve read. I’ve never owned an FX Royale 500. I did own an FX Royale 400, FX Cyclone and still own an FX Ranchero.

      Minor changes were made to the FX Royale 400 platform to introduce the FX 500. 500cc bottle being added and the option to install a regulator were the big changes. The FX 500 created a buzz for a short time but those cheers for the FX 500 have been replaced by the Kalibr Cricket.

      One of the reasons is that the FX 500 is a bottle gun and the Kalibr Cricket is a tube gun. Aesthetics.

      If you compare the FX 500 to the Kalibr Cricket RIFLE (not bullpup. an apple to apple comparison) you will find that the guns are equally accurate, the Cricket Rifle is shorter, the Cricket Rifle is lighter, shot count in .25 caliber is similar IF YOU PAY FOR THE REGULATOR TO BE INSTALLED IN THE FX 500 (regulator is standard in the cricket). Both guns are easy to work on. Finish on the FX is slightly better than the Cricket. Aesthetics. Significant difference in price. Cricket is cheaper.


    • Stan,

      One more thing.

      The FX 500 barrel is a smooth twist (ST barrel). My FX 400 barrel was a smooth twist. Lots of guys, with more experience than me, praise the ST barrels. They clean them regularly. I cleaned mine regularly and still couldn’t keep it from throwing the occasional flyer.


        • I know what you’re saying. Once upon a time I had this condescending attitude not just about full auto but also air soft.

          Years ago we had a blog regular that had the handle Dr. G. He had boys that he introduced to pellet guns via air soft.

          I had a girl. I introduced her to accurate pellet guns via air soft and the fully automatic air soft rifles that did this were recommendations from Dr. G.

          Thanks Dr. G wherever you are.


  14. Crosman should make a silent deal with Air Arms to make a TX 200 copy to keep the cost down AA could give the model less expensive polishing and bluing, also commit to 2500 copy to keep the boys across the pond business. I don’t what to sound like a broken record, why they don’t bring back the original all metal receiver 760 back and the M1 Carbine bb rifle you know the one that cock by pushing in even if they raised the price just under $100 that would keep the Crosman factory business since they wouldn’t need to out source this work.

    • Why would they go through the trouble to change procedures around on the 760.

      I’m sure by now the procedure to manufacture the 760 is so refined after all the years that it has been built it has already paid for itself for a few more years to come.

      • Crosman needs to wise up ,all the dealers at the air gun shows know that the old metal 760 are worthwhile to grab and reseal and resell no one bothers with the cheap plastic receiver 760
        Crosman needs stop being to be penny wise and dollar fullish

        • If they weren’t making any money they wouldn’t be making it with a plastic receiver.
          Everyone wants a IZH-60 with the metal receiver too but now they’re made of plastic but people still buy them because they’re great affordable guns.
          The 760 is a great learning tool and a great first gun and sells very well even with the plastic receiver.

          If they could make more money with the metal receiver they would make them. They’re not making 760 with a plstic receiver just to piss people off, they make what will be the most profitable.


          • I know how you feel I have Crosman products :
            anniversary 2100
            two 140 both calibers
            1400 ,22
            m4 177
            Benjamin SE 392
            white spacer 392
            Mac1 Dan
            Sheridan rocker safety
            Silver Streak Dan
            two Dans push down safety
            Crosman quest
            Benjamin Legacy
            Marlin bb gun
            Benjamin Marauder 25
            So why disappoint loyal costumers like me …

            • Maybe they should make 2 versions of the 760? The plastic receiver for the kids and the first rifle buyers and a metal one for the nostalgic, loyal customers like you?

              Personaly I don’t like multi pump guns, I tried, I bought a 760, a 1322, a 1377, a 397, a HB22, 2289 and probably one or two others I forgot about. Metal receiver or not I wouldn’t buy another 760 so count me out for that one.

              The 100$ PCP on the other hand… now THAT I could get into!


                • Now what I find really weird is Crosman seems to be making the majority of CO2 powerlets available to consumers who don’t buy in bulk (I haven’t seen many other brands in stores) but they only made 2 CO2 rifles, 3 now with the new AK they just announced and only a handfull of CO2 handguns… why aren’t they making more? It seems to me that the more CO2 products they make the more they sell powerlets, no?


        • Chris here is something your missing.

          Crosman and including Benjamin have a wide variety of guns they make. They have the lower end guns that make it easier for somebody to get into the hobby of shooting all the way up to their higher end guns that they produce also which are made with metal and other materials.

          And one thing is I don’t know why Crosman is making the guns the way they are. But I’m going to have to say that they are seeing a bigger picture than what you or me can see. That would be like somebody having a Disco and comparing it to a Marauder that they don’t have. How can we know why the 760 is made with plastic and the Marauder with metal.

          And along with the big picture maybe a gross income of sales report from the airgun manufacturers and compare and see what kind of money is coming in. See who is making the most in sales.

          And If you work at a company designing stuff. Believe me the process from what you design to what ends up being put into production sees many hands before it is a yes or a no. I’m sure already know all of this already. But the only thing we can do is ask and wait and see.

            • It is a shame about the Sheridan but I guess for now they still have the Bejamin pump guns. Thank goodness they still have the Benji pump guns. The pump guns are dwindling away now days.

              Here is something to think about. I believe the 100 dollar pcp will go down in history as the modern day replacement of the 760. And again Time Will Tell.

    • Chris,

      Pyramyd AIR has suggested the same thing! But asking Air Arms to produce a lesser-finished airgun is like asking Rolls-Royce to use leatherette on the seats to lower the price. I’m not saying it will never happen, but it’s a stretch.


  15. I’m happy to report that Crosman is taking the $100 PCP project seriously. They will look into the possibility of making such an air rifle, but that doesn’t mean they have made any decisions to proceed. A lot of things must be taken into consideration beyond the fact that it might be possible. Don’t any of you start a clock on this! I’ll continue to test the rifle I have, and we’ll leave it at that.

    Hopefully the cantilevered air pump will appear first…

    • Y’all need to quit this idea,I don’t think the final product of $100 pcp will be a good idea Think of air guns like Tatoo’s
      ” A Good Tatoo Ain’t Cheap And A Cheap Tatoo Ain’t Good”

      • You’re stuck with a cheap tattoo for life. The 100$ can be an introduction to better stuff.
        Think about cheap cars. You can get a better car obviously but you can still use it to get from point A to point B.
        I think a 100$ PCP would be to get the ball rolling into the PCP world, a plinking gun. It won’t have a wood stock or nice polished bluing steel but it will have zero recoil and will be useable for many shots before needing a refill. A gun you won’t be affraid to bang or carry outside and probably a gun that will become a huge modding plateform (especially if it’s made by Crosman and uses the 22XX/17XX breech and trigger group/grips) you’ll be able to get a repeater, a better stock, a longer or shorter barrel etc.


        • I know what you mean. But like the newbie who buys his first break barrel they think that that low cost gun that advertises 1200fps for the same price range as others that he is getting a better deal cause its more fps only to be highly disappointed when he cant hit anything. He will not take a chance on a $400-$500 gun that states 930 fps (HW95) unless they read our blog here.

          • I don’t agree with that. I think most if not all of us started with cheap rifles. Not many people start with a AA TX200, a Weihrauch HW97 or Evanix. We start with modest the most famous of all airguns, the Daisy RedRyder or a Crosman Phantom, a Relums or worst cheap Chinese knock off that are sold in the back of trailers or in Harbor Freight type stores without a box or any other types of packaging and we evolve into fine springers, CO2 and PCPs with beautiful wood stocks and shiny bluing.


            • The Daisy Red Ryder is a fine example I own;
              1993 Red Ryder
              Buzz Barton Red Ryder
              2011 metal lever Red Ryder
              70Th anniversary Red Ryder
              2013 Christmas Dream
              2010 Buck I cherry picked that one with extraordinary wood stock
              I bought those for my 8year old son
              My point is its still made as the first one ever Daisy didn’t water down quality for $22.
              All I’m saying is the 760 was better quality than now for the same price point.
              Buying something with good quality will make a good companion to TX200

  16. They both have the same 12″ barrel but the frame is longer on the Escape SS.

    So the 12″ barrel in the Escape SS will be quieter because the barrel will be shrouded in side the frame.

    The Talon P frame is shorter so the 12″ barrel comes right to the end cap. It will be a louder gun.

    The Escape SS is basically a Talon SS frame with the benefit of the Talon P valve and tank from what I can see.

    Somebody correct me if I’m wrong please.

  17. Thank you for the show coverage, B.B! So many of us rely on YOU for our first (and often only) look at an airgun before we part with our very precious play dollars. I live sixty miles from a city, and no one within nine hundred miles stocks “real” airguns and pellets. So most people like me have to order sight unseen. Your hard work makes that much less of a gamble. So if your day seems extra hard, it is because you’re carrying a pretty big community so we can look over your shoulders. Thanks again.


  18. BB

    Does the featuring of the Colibri in this blog mean that Pyramyd AIR plans on carrying the Kalibrgun brand? I certainly hope so. They seem to be setting the forums afire with enthusiasm, and possibly the airgun world in general. As I understand it, the Kalibrguns feature barrels made by CZ. Judging by the accuracy many are getting, the CZ barrels are every bit as good (or better) than barrels made by LW or HW. Czech-mate! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry for that outburst.

    I propose that you post an article from The Airgun Letter for Monday’s blog. You have been working overtime the past few days. And traveling many miles to boot. This can really wear down a man (and woman.) Even one as handsome and strapping as yourself! I like the blogs on the old stuff. Seriously, take a day off to rest and play with the cats.

    • twotalon,

      Have never heard of any “glitches” in the AA S500/S510 actions. They’re the same actions that are the AA S400/S410 guns with a side lever. The side lever is very smooth. Butter smooth. I still own my AA S410 rifle. Don’t know if the twin tube version has a different action. Never owned one, never shot one.

      I owned an AA S410 carbine and had the classic tube installed for higher shot count (the carbine tube is the smallest). Even with the classic tube installed it had a pathetic shot count so I sold it. The difference in weight and length between the carbine and rifle are insignificant so would encourage you to look long and hard at the rifle if you decide to go that direction.


    • tt,

      One last thought. Consider buying the AA S510 and get a single shot tray. You’ll have the best of both worlds and insure higher resale that way. The aftermarket RC magazines for these guns work flawlessly so consider that as well.


      • Kevin….

        What kind of shot count are we talking about, assuming full power ? Specs look roughly like the Talon for power.
        Also what kind of curve does it get ? Reasonable self regulation or is the curve not all that great looking ?


        • twotalon,

          Don’t have my notebook here. It’s at my cabin. As I remember, on full power, the carbine was 20 shots, carbine with classic tube was 30 shots and my rifle is 40-45 shots. Of course you can push the shot count with hold over. As to the power curve I think it’s around 20-25fps spread. No affect on accuracy. I’ve kept the AA S410 rifle because it has such a good barrel, the thumbhole stock fits me well (adjustable butt pad is included from the factory on the AA thumbhole stocks) and I’ve got the trigger adjusted just the way I like them.


            • tt,

              Unless you’re getting an outrageous deal on a used carbine buy the rifle. The differences in length and weight are negligible. I have a picture of my carbine next to my rifle that shows the minimal differences. Send me an email and I’ll send you those pics. Double the shot count for minimal differences is a big deal for resale/value in the long term even if it isn’t a big deal to you short term.

              My email. Klentz4. At. Comcast.net


  19. Nice to hear about Mike Mellick. My IZH61 that he tuned and fitted with a new spring is still doing great. I’ll be interested to hear of tests of his rifles.

    Does law enforcement get better scopes than everyone else sort of the way that restaurants get better food than supermarkets where the public shops? If you’re going with 1X magnification, why go with a scope at all? Trying to orient through a scope like that seems to be more trouble than any open sights.

    That holographic sight at the end has money written all over it. Don’t the EoTech holographic sights run about double the Aimpoints, red dot sights?

    For B.B., former commander of a military armory and anyone else who is interested, here is an historical question. In early battles of the Pacific War such as John Ford’s footage of the Japanese attack on Midway Island, one can see American Marines and soldiers firing at Japanese aircraft with a gigantic water cooled machine gun. The question is what kind of gun is this? It looks like the Browning 1917 water cooled heavy machine gun. But that was chambered for 30.06. The caliber would appear to be .50 BMG, but the M2 does not have a water jacket like this. Anyone know what kind of gun that is?


    • If you’re going with 1X magnification, why go with a scope at all? Trying to orient through a scope like that seems to be more trouble than any open sights.

      Properly set up, even a 1X optic (even a cheap Daisy red-dot, also found labeled as either Celestron or Orion as a telescope finder), means only ONE focal plane — typically near infinity. Any open/iron sights results in three focal planes: target, front, rear (close fitting peep/aperture rear sights reduce the planes by one as if you can see the front sight you are centered on the rear).

      While you young whippersnappers may be able to shift focus rapidly, I’m at the point where my reading glasses let me focus between 10-15 inches, the left lens of my regular pair focuses around 18-24 inches (computer monitor distance), and the right lens is set for “infinity” (this ignores my 6 diopter prism [per eye] and astigmatism adjustments). I’m wondering how well I’ll do in the CCW class next month as my shooting glasses have a four+ year old prescription insert set for distance — but the pistol is iron sights (well, the front is plastic — hope I tightened it down well when I swapped the factory installed height for the next shortest — to raise point of impact).

      • That’s a good point. Much as I admire the peep sight on the M1 Garand, I do wonder how fast it would be to acquire that small ring when the enemy is bearing down.

        As a related point, I wonder if the shooting skill of soldiers gets significantly higher in extended combat duty. Most people can only afford to go to a range intermittently. If, on the other hand, you have unlimited ammo, lots of practice, and high motivation, it stands to reason that you would get pretty good.


  20. I just went over yesterdays comments and see that a lot of us want the M1 Carbine(spring gun cock by pulling the barrel into receiver) back , Id even settle for plastic wood grain stock but the receiver has to be metal. I hope Crosman sees this .

  21. BB,In all these comments no one has addressed the error you made.Maybe they all(like myself) think it’s no big deal.But I don’t want you feeling red faced.Everyone who was perfect has left this earth.We all appreciate how hard you work,how much you’ve taught us,and how you try to steer us the right or best way.The responsibility you take upon yourself to bring us the truth is more important to you than your embarrassment.To me you just keep growing taller.Thank You so much.

    Edith,The saying goes”Behind every big man is a big woman”.I know that you like airguns and work in that field.But you are also a wife and so many of them only barely tolerate their husbands interest in the guns.But you walk beside BB even as you stand behind him in what he is doing and we all benefit from that immensely.A special Thank You to you also.

    It’s been a special 3 days with the two of you and we are all pretty excited and I think it will carry us for a while in this new year.We have a lot to talk about,and much to discover.-Tin Can Man-

  22. Hi all
    sorry if I am posting something you already know. I did not read thru them all. What caught my attention was the person you talked with that sold pistols that posted groups at 100 yards and rifles at .30 groups at 100 yards. I contacted the the booth owner and he gave me a link for the man building those guns.
    here is the site. http://accuracyx.com/

    I am too busy today to follow up but it is on the table for anyone with an interest.


  23. Sorry that was the Pardini booth. A nice guy, Alexander gave me the link referred to in my last post. I usually read stuff in middle of night when I have more time, cheers.

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