by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
FWB Sport
This report covers:
• Is this a 124?
• What the new rifle has
• Trigger overview
• Open sights: Done the right way!
• Scope dovetail needs a special mount
• Shooting behavior
• Evaluation so far
Let’s take our first look at a rifle many airgunners have eagerly awaited — the Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle. I remember back in the 1990s when the FWB 124 was coming to the end of its production run. It seemed like dealers couldn’t give them away. But after they’d been off the market for just 5 years, many shooters were whining that they just missed buying the best airgun ever made.
They said things like, “If Feinwerkbau would start making the 124, again, I would be willing to pay as much as $500 for one.” Well, they’re making a breakbarrel once more; and, although it isn’t a 124 reincarnated, it does resemble the vintage gun more than a little. Only the price isn’t $500 — it’s $900. That’s what happens when time passes and reality sets in.
So, will the mantra now become, “I would never pay $900 for a breakbarrel springer!”? I don’t know how I feel about that. We will just have to wait and see. What I can do is tell you all about the new Feinwerkbau Sport as we discover it together, and maybe then we can all make up our minds about this new airgun.
The serial number of the rifle I’m testing is 12400043. I don’t think that’s is a coincidence. I believe the serial number incorporates the old 124 model number and therefore started at 12400001. If I’m right, then this is rifle number 43 off the assembly line.
Is this a 124?
The new rifle is not a 124 in the strictest sense of the term — not even an updated one. But I do see a strong family resemblance. Maybe that’s due more to the pedigree of FWB than to any actual 124 DNA.
The test rifle is a .177, and I don’t see any indication of other calibers on the horizon. Not to worry; because with this powerplant, .177 is where you want to be. There are 2 power levels being built — a 7.5-Joule German one and an 18-Joule U.S.-spec. version. In U.S. terms, that’s 5.5 and 13.25 foot-pounds, respectively. So we can expect this new rifle to launch a 7.9-grain Crosman Premier pellet at around 850-875 f.p.s. That would make it ideal for sports like field target and small game hunting.
What the new rifle has
The new Sport has a thinner, trimmer profile and feel than a 124. The forearm, especially, is slimmer and less blocky than the 124 forearm. The new rifle’s pistol grip is very steep, which gives your hand something to pull back on. And the area behind the grip where the meat of your hand fits is scalloped deeply for comfort. The early 124 had a Wündhammer palm swell on the right side of the pistol grip for many years, making those 124s favor right-handed shooters. But the new rifle has identical scallops on both sides of the grip, making this rifle ambidextrous. The automatic safety extends straight out the back of the spring tube, and a low cheekpiece rolls over to both sides of the butt in a Monte Carlo hump, completing the ambidextrous styling.
Fish-scale checkering is rough and grippy. This kind of custom touch used to cost a lot of money.
The beech stock is stained a different color than any other air rifle stock I have seen. And maybe it isn’t just the stain; because although this stock is beech, I can see some real gain in the wood. It just looks different.
Both the pistol grip and the forearm have a rough fish-scale checkering that really grips you back. There’s no finish in these areas, and they’re as dry and grippy as you could hope for. Back in the 1970s, when this sort of thing was done by hand, it cost 500 Deutsche Marks for a job like this. I realize this is done by machine today, but the result is just as nice.
Feinwerkbau decided to shape the butt in the Bavarian style, and I must say that it looks classy on this rifle. The Bavarian style means that the cheekpiece, while raised, is still close to the butt, and the Monte Carlo comb slopes at the rear. The lines of the cheekpiece are sharp and add to the sleek styling of the rifle.
The butt has a thin rubber pad at the back to keep the rifle from slipping against your shoulder or when you stand it in the corner. The stock screws have Torx heads (star bits). Once, again, it’s time to break out those strange tools that I never use.
The rifle weighs just over 8 lbs. and is 44.84 inches long overall. The pull is slightly over 13.5 inches, but it feels longer to me. The barrel cocks with 33 lbs. of effort on my bathroom scale, and it might lose a pound of that as it breaks in. At present, the rifle feels stiff and new, as it should.
Trigger overview
The trigger was a weak spot on the 124, but not on the new Sport. The new trigger is 2-stage and has an adjustment for the length of stage one. I’ll save the release weight for Part 2, but I can tell you that it’s both light and glass-crisp, as you would expect from a rifle this expensive.
The triggerguard is the only piece of plastic on the rifle. FWB took a LOT of heat when they made the 124 with a plastic trigger blade, though it made no difference in performance; and I think they’ve learned their lesson. I’m sure someone will find a reason to complain about this triggerguard, but to my eye it looks good.
Open sights: Done the right way!
The sights on a 124 were pretty good and Feinwerkbau has not rested on their laurels. These are even better. The 124 rear sight had some plastic in it, but this new Sport rear sight is all metal. There isn’t one fiberoptic tube to be found on the rifle!
The rear sight has crisp detents on both the elevation and windage adjustment wheels. I know I’ll have to scope the rifle for a complete test, but I’m looking forward to trying these conventional open sights that are the best set I’ve seen in years.
Feinwerkbau spent some money getting the rear sight right!
The front sight is a fixed post with a hood. There are no inserts, nor can any be installed in this sight. FWB has made the sight easily removable for those who want to scope their airgun.
Scope dovetail needs a special mount
One thing they kept is their proprietary grooved scope stop. It takes a special crosspin on the base of one of your rings (or one pin for a one-piece mount). Regular scope mounts won’t work on this rifle, but Pyramyd AIR has 3 to choose from: 1-piece high mount, 1-piece medium mount and 2-piece medium mount.
The scope mounts need a crosspin in their base to intersect one of these five slots.
Shooting behavior
The Sport is buzzy when fired. It may smooth out a little as it breaks in, but I think most of the buzz is there to stay. If this were my rifle, I would tune it to eliminate that buzz — which has to be caused by some tolerances that are larger than needed.
Evaluation so far
I think this is an interesting air rifle. I hope that it delivers Feinwerkbau’s legendary accuracy.
I like the size, shape and feel of the rifle. I think it’s going to break-in to be a real fine air rifle. But at the price, it faces stiff competition.
I look forward to your further reports on this one sir! Thank you! Wish they would have made them tuned from the box. Have fun!
I have waited with bated breath for this Feinwerkbau to arrive at your test bench. Feinwerkbau has a long and rich history of producing world beating, innovating target rifles, and now they have revived their sporting spring piston break barrel for what I hope will become an extended run. Because Feinwerkbau has been a leader in innovation, would it be too much of a stretch for a look “under the hood”. I would love to see how it compares to the Walther LGV line, introduced with much fanfare a couple of years ago. In fact, I wonder if the new Walther is one reason we are seeing this new Feiwerkbau. I’m looking forward to what I hope will be one of your lengthy, 6 or 7 part tests.
Ciao
Titus
I too would love to have him go under the hood, but I doubt he will do such unless he decides to add it to his stable. If he does that, we know it is a winner. 😉
Titus,
Don’t forget — Walther also has a new underlever springer we have yet to see.
B.B.
If the Walther underlever is as good as the Walther LGV Challenger and LGV Challenger Ultra I own, I want one!
Mine will arrive at my house Wednesday. I can hardly wait. 🙂 My only problem is the new mounts. 🙁 I will just have to shoot open sights for a week or two.
I was referring to my new FWB Sport.
Jesse
Good for you. If you don’t mind I like to know what you think about yours.
BB does some heavy duty reporting on these guns but I think its good to hear from somebody that owns one. Its a little different when you put out the money and you have to live with the choice and its not going to get sent back after your done testing. Or will it?
I will be mine, got it from Brand X and they do not do well on returns. I will have to live with it. 🙂
Jesse
I do have this feeling you will be happy and it won’t have to go anywhere. 🙂
Yes, my big question is whether this rifle has the legendary Feinwerkbau price. I see that it doesn’t although it’s an expensive rifle. Having buzz at this price is disturbing. You would think that makers of elite guns could just relax their standards and price a bit to produce a rifle that everyone would be grateful for. But I don’t know if that’s the case. Could it be that the ones who are good at making elite rifles are only good at elite rifles? While Anschutz sporting rifles are good quality, I don’t think they are particularly remarkable in their niche. I, suspect, without owning one that you get the German complication without the performance. Maybe designing value rifles is a separate expertise of its own.
Matt61
My R11 was harsh, had a buzz, and the trigger was not what I expected from such an expensive rifle. 1500 shots the harshness went away, and the trigger broke in real nice, 2000 shots and the buzz is almost all gone. One can not judge a rifle on just a few shots, it takes time before you can say what a rifle can really do. This is just my opinion. 🙂
Good Morning, I’m up early today. It looks nice as it should. Now we will see how it shoots thanks to BB. I have a 124 that my dad bought back in the day. Pyramyd resealed it for me last year and it’s shooting great. I shoot it about four days a week. No fiberoptic sights, great! But, $900.00 for a beech stock….really? It will have to go some to beat the TX.
Mike
BB,
OK, here we go. I have waited for this review since we heard about it from the Shot Show. I am in the market for a nice sproinger. As you said, this one has some very stiff competition. For the price tag on this thing, I can get a TX200 MKIII with a beautiful walnut stock. I strongly suspect I can call Diana and do the same with a 34 or such. I may also be able to do that with Weihrauch.
I know you are going to drag this out for a bit and not tell us much about accuracy and such, but let us talk about material build quality, fit and finish. I have my hands on two FWB300s at the moment and I know you have one also. Does the steel in this Sport compare to that of the 300? Does the fit and finish of the steel also compare? How is the fit between the steel and the wood?
I think you know what I am trying to get at. Is this air rifle top shelf? When all is said and done, I will likely have only two, MAYBE three sproinger rifles in my “collection”. One of them will be my 1906 BSA. A FWB300S is in the running for another spot, but I would like a little more power than it delivers.
I guess I will know whether this is worth my serious consideration when you send it back or not.
RR,
I am still considering this rifle on the fit and finish. Since it’s an FWB it seems likely that it is perfect. It certainly seems to be very good.
The bluing is not highly polished like on the 124 or 300. So that has changed. But the breech locks as tight as any I have seen, and I have seen some good ones.
I will keep your questions in mind as I evaluate the rifle.
B.B.
Isn’t feinwerkbau under the flag of umarex in the US? How does that go with this gun as far as country of origin and whose factories and what not? I know, I missed the stupid question day, but please humor me if you can.
RDNA,
No, FWB used to be sold exclusively in the U.S. through Beeman. However, Pyramyd AIR is now the importer. FWB is made in Germany. Always has been…and I hope it always will be.
Edith
RDNA,
FWB is imported into the U.S. by Pyramyd AIR.
Umarex has no connection.
B.B.
Hey, I warned you it was a stupid question, lol, must f been the pyramyd catalogue I had seen and for some reason I thought umarex. Thanks T&E
Can you uncock it like my old 124? I use mine for hunting and if i loose my shot i want to uncock. Also is it quiet when cocked like the 124. My rws 38 makes a loud click and scares the squrrels away.
DJ Mack,
There is an automatic safety, so uncocking seems to be a problem. I wondered about that, too because the owner’s manual warns against doing it.
I will see.
B.B.
DJ Mack,
The rifle does make noise when cocked, but it isn’t that loud. But the breech is very tight and makes a clicking noise when opened and a louder one when closed. I’m guessing that would be objectionable.
B.B.
My original 124 also has the automatic safety as do all my rws rifles. First park the butt on your hip or thigh as if you are cocking the gun. You can easily break the barrel back open just to the point that the cocking lever engages the internal mechanism, apply light pressure, then push off the safety and pull the trigger. You have to be prepared to hold the full cocking force as the trigger releases the piston. If you’re experienced and have decent strength, there is very little jerk and it’s easy to accomplish.
This also works with under levers and side levers but with those you also have to push in on the anti-beartrap release button after pulling the trigger to allow the lever to return to the home position while decompressing the spring.
I can see why the manual doesn’t recommend it because of the potential energy release but similar hazards exist if you lose your grip during cocking.
I bought my 124 from Robert Law’s ARH in 1978 for $172.50.
Adjusted for inflation, that’s $629.29 today. The checkering was hand-cut, and I’m supposing there were many hand ops that are machine ops today. So today’s gun, with all the labor saving machine ops, should actually be LESS expensive than $629.29.
Of course, the new one does BUZZ. I guess that’s worth something….(Seriously, FWB — I have to open a new $900 springer to fix the BUZZ?!?!?)
So. So far… How. Disappointing. All. Around.
I think at $999 Minus the 20% rebate, I would shop for a used 124., perhaps.Thank you for the report, B.B.
Pete
Tom, sure wish you would have let the rifle break in some before doing a review. There are many that do not want this rifle to be a success. I appreciate your honest review, and hopefully you get to put a significant amount of pellets through it before part 2.
Dave,
Part 2 is the velocity test, as usual. I won’t be putting a lot of pellets through the gun before that test, but if I see that it need a second velocity test, I will do it as I have in the past.
I expect and want this FWB rifle to be a good one.
B.B.
B.B.,
Like everyone else, I’ve been waiting for this report, and look forward to reading more, but I am disappointed your rifle buzzes. I hoped this would be the world’s finest spring rifle, despite its unusually shaped beech stock and trigger guard.
RB
B.B.
So far nobody has complained about the lack of power for the price ??? For shame !!!!!
Looks sleek enough not to feel like a 4×4 with a cement block tied to it. Does it feel good to shoulder up and hold ?
About the buzz…. just a bit of hum, or is it gruesome ? (need a Vortek kit ????)
twotalon
TT,
Lack of power??? This thing is right where you want it to be!
The buzz in more than a hum. Vortek probably won’t make a kit, but it should be easy enough to tune.
B.B.
B.B.
The lack of power thing was a bit of sarcasm . I am surprised that nobody has complained yet that for this much money, you should have enough power to kill a wild pig at 500 yards without aiming .
Mid 800s with a medium weight pellet sounds intelligent enough for me. R9 territory.
twotalon
I expect more power than that, at least at Diana 34 / HW95 levels and walnut. I will dare to say that na HW95 with a V-Mach V-Glide kit would kick butt.
Luso
My R9 with a Vortek PG2 is running close to 900 with FTT . Slowly speeding up, but shooting great. The kit was for getting rid of the buzz.
That’s good enough for me.
twotalon
Yes, the mantra has now become, “I would never pay $900 for a breakbarrel springer!”
Since they’ve never shot one but now B.B. has they will add, “and it’s buzzes too.”
Suspect they will also complain about the style and material of the trigger guard.
Plenty of reasons to justify not buying the new FWB Sporter. This is good news for those of us that want to try one and didn’t get a chance before Pyramyd AIR sold out.
kevin
Go get ’em, Kev.
Boy, we are already talking about kits. Vortek or JM !!! NOT FAIR.
Not fair, on an ” evaluation so far ” and two lines on ” shooting behavior”
I would rather wait for part 2..than draw any conclusions.
BBS,
Well said!
B.B.
There are those who just can’t leave well enough alone.
It does sound like it could use a little grease though. Maybe BB will pull it out of the stock and take a little peak inside and see.
I think your right, a lube tune does a lot more then some realize, also all the parts are settling into their beds and could definitely be vibrating until they soften up, wouldn’t call that buzz a deal breaker at all, especially if the V test shows some good consistent numbers….
Velocity and cocking effort issues can be easily
addressed in the future.
The internal design was not engineered to deliver
good velocity verses a low cocking effort. However
from what I have seen that’s easily addressed and not an issue
unless ” the cost” is a factor.
The fix for that is simple.
Why it was not designed that way, I have no idea!
Well, BB, I will chime in even though I am seriously unlikely to spend $900 on any pellet gun this year.
First of all, I would be disappointed if my expensive (I’m being subtle) pellet rifle buzzed. Wow, yeah. And even though it doesn’t matter as much to me…I’m curious why they would put a plastic trigger guard on when they know it bothers so many people. Again, for $900…why do it? It’s an heirloom. Why spoil it?
On the other hand, I very much like the looks of the rifle. Most importantly, I love the open sites. I pray for this rifles success that other gun makers emulate their sites and banish those ridiculous fiber optic sites to the dust bin. I hate them and it’s difficult to buy anything without them.
Anyway, thanks for the test.
Rob
BB,
How come the PA website doesn’t have a link to this story on it? Took a minute to find your morning report, if I wasn’t persistent, might have missed it.
As always, great report and well worth a read.
Jim
Jim,
They link when the report is completed — not at the beginning.
B.B.
I wish I had bought one back then” $900 seems steep but 20 years from now” $1,800 will
seem like a bargain.
I wonder if there is ever a mix up and a USA customer gets the German low power version
instead of the US export one?Will the company exchange it? I read that Germany recently
raised their power limits,If so that would be unusual for a European country to do.
Does anyone remember Air rifle Headquarters? they pushed this model before Beemans
was in business.They really pushed .177 over .22,I guess it was because there were more
guns in .177,At that time they had a still picture of the 55N hitting a can at 750 fps which
was a lot back then.Velocity and target shooting were the main theme to push .177 and
it worked.Im glad the .22 is back”
NNJM,
Receiving the wrong power level happens very rarely. In all my years with Pyramyd AIR, I recall such an instance, but none of the guns were ever shipped to customers. The tech department discovered it before any guns were sent. I’ve never heard of the wrong power level being sent to a customer.
Edith
Addendum–I can speak only for Pyramyd AIR. Don’t know about other retailers. Edith
I do like the look of this rifle and think they got the power right on the money, that said the reason I like this power level is because you can usually get a good firing behavior and less buzz with lower cocking effort than with the super magnums. The one weakness I always thought my 124 had was the very long piston stroke that seems to make it more sensitive to hold. I know this is not an FWB problem as the R9 can be very touchy too but it does appear in the photo that this rifle has the same long stroke piston. I will be very curious to see how this rifle performs in the offhand accuracy tests. As far as the buzz goes, it is a little disappointing but it may just be a dry mainspring left that way to get the max power from the gun. A little spring tar may loose you a few ft/sec but quiet it down.
Sam,
The Sport has a much shorter cocking stroke than the 124. There is a photo on the Pyramyd AIR product page that shows the limit of the barrel when broken.
B.B.
Everyone, including myself, has been wincing at the price tag on this air rifle. Maybe we should put it into perspective.
There are quite a few here that will drop a grand on a Mattelomatic. For a finely crafted skeet gun, some will drop a lot more than that. Do you guys see where I am going.
Why do we, and once again I include myself, think a quality air rifle should cost around one hundred dollars? Probably because in the deep recesses of what little minds we have, we still think of them as toys instead of as rifles and pistols that use air instead of gunpowder as the propellant.
Even though I still think the price tag is a bit high for this particular air rifle and I am sure part of that cost is the name printed on the side of the stock, I have not ruled this one out yet. It will have to impress me though. I had a Gamo CFX that I had put a new trigger on that was capable of producing a ten shot group at 25 yards that could literally hide under BB’s dime. We will see what it can do.
Hi BB
I am really looking forward to this review! Curious on how this rifle differs from my 124.
I was real excited when I first heard rumors about the Sport – was hoping that it was a “modern” 124 with a gas-spring. I am surprised that they stayed with a coil-spring design and that the cocking force is so high – it is only 19 pounds on the 124 which makes it real pleasant to shoot for those extended sessions.
The Sport still looks interesting but I think that Feinwerkbau would do well if they sold 124/126 rifles at a $500-$600 price point. I have had many offers in that price range for mine.
Earlier this year I was looking for a FWB 300S for 10 meter target shooting, never found one. With the Sport being offered, I contacted Feinwerkbau to see if they might re-release a 300S and I was told they had no intension of doing so. Too bad for that – think that there is a market for non-PCP target rifles.
I just mounted a Hawke Optics 4-16×44 AO Varmint Rifle Scope on the FWB 124 and am evaluating it for FT use. Can any 124 owners recommend a pellet that they are having good results with? Appreciate any input!
Vana2
Hi, Vana. There are quite a few FWB 300S, plus a 150 and a 603, for sale on the airguns.net classifieds right this moment.
-Jan
Hi Jan,
Thanks for the link! I browse there often but there is a bit of a problem getting guns shipped to Canada.
I found a FWB 603 locally and am very happy with it! I would still like a 300S but I have blown the gun budget for this year.
Concentrating on getting the 124 ready for FT use.
Vana2
Ahh, the international arms shipment problem. The Customs folks must prevent the scourge of Kwik-E-Mart hold-ups using Olympic rifles.
The FWB 603 sounds brilliant. I’m still kicking myself for missing a chance to shoot one at the Field Target match last month. Fella had one all ready to play with after the match, but I got all busy jaw-flapping and score-tabulating, and ran out of time! Have fun with yours!
-Jan
Would not have described it in that way but I have to agree – Yes the FWB 603 IS brilliant! Makes me smile every time I pick it up. A real pleasure to shoot and a perfect match for my FWB 100 SSP pistol.
I mounted a TF90 red-dot on it for some casual snipping. Plan on making a lighter thumb-hole sport style stock for it this winter.
Vana2
My 124 likes JSB 8.4’s and H&N ftt with 4.51mm head size.
Thanks Feinwerk!
I like the rifle. I have always wanted a FWB throughout time but they always seemed like they were more than what I could spend.
The work on the stock is nice to look at, and the shape also. And you can tell the quality is there by BB’s quality pictures. I like the rear sight also even though my eyes don’t like to work with the open sights. And I like their scope mount design.
But I have to throw in some criticism. The buzz, I don’t like when a spring gun buzz’s at all. Maybe it will get better with time but I doubt it. And the price seems to be a bit steep but most of the FWB’s are on the high end of the money scale.
And I’m going to dare to compare. I now only have two spring guns. I have had others and nitro piston guns. But for price and performance and quality my .177 cal. HW50s Is a nice gun. I like it better than my .177 cal. Diana 54 Air King. The HW50s is light, easy to hold, smooth to cock, no vibrations buzzing or thunks when it shoots and is 399 dollars. And I forgot the most important thing about a air gun. The 54 and 50s are accurate.
I’m sure the quality and reputation is there in the new FWB sport. But is it priced the way it is because of the name? How much better is the quality and design of it verses a Diana or Wierauch? Not sarcastically said. I really would like to know.
GF1,
During lunch, I mentioned to Tom that everything FWB does is pricey. They have the finest equipment, finest technicians, finest development department, etc., because they concentrate on making guns to win in the Olympics. That means everything is made for extreme precision.
I think you could say the same thing for Ferrari if they made a minivan for the average person. All the people they employ and all the machinery they use is made for a certain type of vehicle. They’re going to make an average minivan with those same people, on the same machines and pretty much with the same materials. So, a Ferrari minivan will cost many times what a Chrysler minivan will cost. Will it be worth it? I guess the marketplace will have to decide. Same goes for the FWB Sport. But I will say that the FWB name is quite persuasive, which is why Pyramyd Air’s inventory sold out so fast.
Edith
I take offense! I drive a minivan! And prefer springers! I would love to see more high end springers though, ones that can perform at the power and accuracy levels of pcp, I mainly airgun for hunting and otherwise plink and don’t care if its a grizzly for that, but for hunting Id like to see the pin point 80ft/lbs of airforce etc.. in the simple design of a breakbarrel… that’d be worth a grand for me.
I know it would take 80 lbs to cock, that’s were the work needs to be put in to overcome that limitation. Researching a way around that is where the price will be decided I guess.
RDNA,
You’d need a cocking aid. I’m thinking it would be along the lines of the cocking assist marketed for crossbows.
Edith
I see what your saying, a crank up gun. Have to be a hefty front end of the compression tube, and god forbid you use too light a pellet or dryfire…
P.P.S., I know 80 ftlbs is way overkill, I guess Im just saying that the pcps CAN get that much and cover a quarter at 50-75- even 100 yds, so a spring gun that gets anywhere past the normal power ceiling without shaking itself apart.
RDNA,
I’ve been driving minivans for decades and remain unoffended 🙂
I think 80 ft-lbs. from a springer is an unreasonable expectation.
Edith
What about 50 managed ftlbs? I think the max now is around 30? Maybe a .25 out there with a little more, but there not very manageable.
RDNA,
I’m far from being an expert, but I think 50 is also a stretch.
Edith
Im sure somebody’s made a super springer, ridiculous spring made cockable by a ridiculously long barrel….?
RDNA
You know that FX sales their smooth twist barrel blanks. I don’t know how long they are.
It sounds like you want a 50fpe springer real bad. Maybe you can make a .25 cal. version out of a gun and throw in a bigger spring. Maybe the smooth twist would be the trick to make it work.
There’s only one way to find out. You gonna try?
Haha, you know it, and with a good barrel like that it might be as accurate as In looking for. The problem is I don’t have a lathe or cncs, though things have to be designed before they can be made(though not always, especially in AG modding) So I will try and find a mechanism that can make 80 lbs feel like 30 cocking, and it can’t be a crossbow crank, has to maintain traditional springer specs.
RDNA
But remember who can use a Bridgeport or lathe whenever needed. 😉
RDNA
All you have to do is find a spring that will shoot a 43 grn .25 cal. Eun Jin pellet at 725 fps and you got your 50 fpe springer.
RDNA,
Have you read this:
/blog/2008/10/steel-dreams-part-2-building-a-more-powerful-spring-piston-gun/
That is why I don’t get too excited about a more powerful spring piston airgun.
B.B.
BB
That’s what I was getting at. Its more than just throwing a barrel on and putting in a bigger spring. I asked that question down below. What size spring would it take. The next question was going to be about the piston. Then I was going to ask what would be used to make the leaver-age to cock it.
Its a do-able thing. But just shooting the gun a couple times would probably kill you. And I imagine it would be heavy to carry around.
This is a spot on observation in my opinion.
Feinwerkbau never built anything to a price point. FWB never knew the meaning of inexpensive.
Why should they market it that way now.
kevin
Edith
I agree with what you said about FWB.
I would think that Wierauch and Diana would have a similar reputation. Or am I wrong?
GF1,
Weihrauch & Diana don’t make guns that are used in the Olympics. They’re looking for precision, but not the same level. Also, I think FWB believes in precision at any cost. I’m guessing Steyr, Anschütz and the other makers of Olypmic guns have the same attitude: Accuracy at any cost.
Edith
Edith
I have always though of FWB, Wiehrauch, and Diana as the big 3 and I should include Beeman also I guess.
I wasn’t thinking in terms of the Olympics I was thinking in the terms of those manufacturer’s trying to be the best.
When I was a kid and I heard those names it was like thinking of a exotic European air gun. I really never thought about categorizing as one being better than the other.
GF1,
I believe all the German companies try their best because they have immense pride of ownership and look at their products as an extension of themselves. In other words, “I helped produce this gun. It’s a reflection of my work, my knowledge, by ability, my carefulness and my industriousness.” Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone thought that way about their job or company?
Edith
Edith
I wonder how many companies and employees are left that have that thought process.
I know you know how hard it is to get a good reputation.
I just hope that they continue to provide. I hope they don’t think they have that reputation and think they are it. That’s the biggest way to get bit.
Gunfun and Edith
There are still some of us left out there that take what they do very seriously and have a great deal of pride in what we do.
I know when I was at Harley I did the best I could because it is just like Edith says it is an extension of who we are, but I don’t see 900 dollars of quality in that FWB sport if it buzzes as bad as Bb said in his review. To me that means that there is a huge lacking in the pride that is associated with the name FWB.
I know for 900 bucks it had better not make any noise other than what is normal for a springer. I got that 40 buck spring gun off gun broker that from the first shot was smooth and quiet and is a tack driver at 40 yards with 940 fps on 7.9gr CPs.
if the FGWB sport cannot top that then it is most definitely not worth 900 in my book.
Buldawg
Edith
I agree with what you in part about the quality and workmanship, equipment, research and development and all the fancy technology as being good. But that by no means signifies that something as good or better cannot be built for far less and with less pricey equipment. My case in point is referring to what Carroll Shelby did back in 1964, 65, 66 ,67 when he took a very low priced British two seat sports car and put a Ford V8 into it and went racing against the exotic high dollar sports cars of Italy and the rest of Europe in the 24 hours of Lemans and placed in the top 10 or less in 64, and 65. then in 1966 he came back with the same little car with a bigger 427 ford side oiler in it and won the 24 hours of lemans with a car that was well below half the cost of any other Ferrari, Maserati or other exotic European sports cars. Also a polish immigrant in the late fifties and early sixties by the name of Max Buchowski with no engineering degree at all built a car from junkyard parts and went racing in California against the same exotic European sports cars at Sonoma and Laguna Seca racetracks and beat the Europeans at their own game and both cars are part of our American history. In the Shelby SC 500 Cobra and the junkyard dog, better known as Old Yellow which was built in an od garage with chalk lines drawn out on the floor to lay out the metal for the frame and suspension attachment points and then built from part he bought at junk yards for cheap.
So a lot of the cost of the FWB and Ferrari’s , Maserati’s and all the other exotics is for the name and not so much for the quality anymore in these days. thing are just not made as good as they used to be when people really cared what they did for a living.
Buldawg
The Ferrari analogy doesn’t hold up, unless you are referring to a longitudinal comparison of Ferrari’s mini-van pricing over 35 years. It was the same Elite FWB making virtually the same gun 35 years ago — and mostly by hand, then. Price adjusted, at MOST this thing should be $629. Same as a modern TX200. No excuses, they are trolling for Deutchmarks in their wallet, that’s it.
Steve,
But they no longer use Deutsche Marks. They now use Euros, which are more valuable than U.S, dollars. So everything they now build costs us more to buy.
Also, they are still paying the heavy tax for reuniting the two Germanys — another inflationary expense.
Germany has become a very expensive place for an American to visit or to buy from.
B.B.
And this explains how HW is able to pump out similar, non-groundbreaking breakbarrels for half the cost how?
Are HW and FWB in different Germanies?
Steve,
I don’t know what HW charges for just a barrel versus FWB, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn you are right. FWB rifles barrel on the vertical axis (with the barrel standing straight up), to minimize the effects of gravity during the process. I don’t believe that is a common practice, but it demonstrates their unfaltering quest for the best quality. I only say that to underscore that they do things their way and not in the conventional style, unless that style is the best. I don’t think they watch other companies very closely, unless they get beat in a match.
B.B.
Just curious, does supply and demand have anything to do with the price of this rifle? It does not appear to have much availability at present.Could this a marketing ploy to see how well the rifle is accepted here in the US? Maybe only a limited # of rifles made? I have no doubt that the FWB will be top notch quality. But it will also be judged by price, regardless of being fair or not.
Gunfun1, now I remember. A tail dragger is just what the name says. What’s an avidavit? As a novice, I called the airport to ask about this and never got a response, and I called the local police. The person who answered didn’t know anything about rc and didn’t think there was a problem. But after some experience I see that this really is an unacceptable danger.
RifledDNA, thanks for the affirmation of Hot Fuzz, but you won’t believe what happened. There I was slipping the dvd into my computer and sitting back to enjoy, and what do I see but that the dvd is of the movie’s soundtrack only. I looked at the dvd cover and in fine print that’s what it says. Unbelievable. Who would buy the soundtrack for a farcical movie? If there’s a genre lower than comic music, I don’t know what it is. Music can evoke all sorts of powerful emotions, but I’ve never heard of funny music. Maybe as an accompaniment to humor but not the main event. Now, I have to return the dvd and await the arrival of the actual movie!
But I put the time to good use. I’m enjoying the contrast I get with my new white light shining on my target in a darkened room. This is way better than the light in the old place that I used for years. In addition, I hauled 400 pounds of sand for my bunkers to protect my reloading materials. I imagine a cube of sandbags within a cardboard box about 2.5 feet on a side. I will put the reloading materials in a hollow space inside and cover the whole with a waterproof, fireproof tarpaulin. What can go wrong? I haven’t done a blast calculation but I would think that 400 pounds of sand will buy you a lot of safety. It is surprising how quickly the sand goes for something like this. I am thinking of two additional bunkers for over a half ton of sand.
Matt61
Matt61
That was a mispell from my phone. I corrected myself in the reply below the other day.
It was suppose to say I’m surprised you didn’t get a visit. Referring to flying RC airplanes by a airport. My phone comes up with the strangest words.
Brought it down here, doesn’t sound so difficult you put it like that. I wonder if breakbarrel pumper could do it, like a self contained pcp, not just a low volume pumper.3 high capacity pumps for one shot from a little tank
RDNA
Now it sounds like your talking about a pump gun not a springer. I do think a pump gun of some sort could do it.
I want to know about a springer. Not a nitro piston gun either. What weight spring do you think it would need to make 50 fpe with the 43 grn pellet going 725 fps. ?
I recently tuned my FX .22 Independence with max hammer spring compression (physical travel limit of adjuster screw) and reservoir pressure of 220 bar. It shoots the barracuda match 21.3’s at 940 fps/40 fpe and requires 5 pumps. JSB 18.1’s go 990 fps. Barracuda hunters come out at 980 fps and expand to .30 in game. Wow what an impact pop! Accuracy is still excellent, especially with the barracuda match 5.53mm heads.
A springer at this level would jump so hard as to be unmanageable.
Feinwerk
Here is a comment I just left BB up above when RDNA brought the question up.
“BB
That’s what I was getting at. Its more than just throwing a barrel on and putting in a bigger spring. I asked that question down below. What size spring would it take. The next question was going to be about the piston. Then I was going to ask what would be used to make the leaverage to cock it.
Its a do-able thing. But just shooting the gun a couple times would probably kill you. And I imagine it would be heavy to carry around.”
Gunfun
That is because our Chinese phone s don’t speak English very well and are trying to get us to convert.
Buldawg
buldawg
Maybe are smart phones are smarter than we think.
See it should of been our instead of are.
Gunfun
Yea they are preparing us for the new language we will need to know when china call in their debt from us.
Buldawg
buldawg
Let’s hope not.
Gunfun
You and me both. I hope that its not the case, but it looks worse every day also.
Buldawg
Mandarin or Cantonese
{Same written glyphs, but practically totally different spoken}
Baron Wulfraed
Which ever goes better with the good old southern drawl would be my choice.
Buldawg
You’re in trouble then… I believe both of them are tonal languages — the same syllable means something different when spoken at low or high pitch (I believe there are four pitch levels!)
Baron Wulfraed
I most definitely would be in trouble then and would not be able to assimilate into the population very well at all but then I never have worried that much about fitting in and would rather be myself despite its pluses or minuses. I truly hope it does never get to the point that our great country has lost its pride and fortitude that has got us through the so many desperate times in the past. I for one will stand and fight till my dying breath, but I just do not know if our youth of today has the same understanding of what is at stake and truly what it will take to keep our country proud and free in the future.
Buldawg
This was sent in by Jos. I answer it here because I want to get the broadest coverage.
Hi Tom.
Im thinking about buying another airgun.
Ill be using it primarily for 10 15 meter target practice.
Maybe a small amount of pest control at 15 meter.
Im thinking about the weihrauch hw30s as a first choice.
Second choice would be the hw50s.
What are youre thoughts?
What would be your advice?
Thanks.
Greets jos
Hi Tom, where do you rate the blue quality at?, in the picture it does not look as nice as a TX200 or possibly an R9- HW.. that could be lighting though..
Also is the barrel lock up tight ? it looks like a ball, RWS and HW’s lock up tight, but my past 124’s do not and I cant use as heavy a break as I like on a rifle.. It seems the barrels want to drop, even with an accidental slap or fast movement..
I like that they wenbt metal on the sight and the styling is good with me.. plastic on the guard so is it on my 300RT o well- LOL..
This came in to my personal address, but it’s a question I want to answer here.
Hi Tom.
Im thinking about buying another airgun.
Ill be using it primarily for 10 15 meter target practice.
Maybe a small amount of pest control at 15 meter.
Im thinking about the weihrauch hw30s as a first choice.
Second choice would be the hw50s.
What are youre thoughts?
What would be your advice?
Thanks.
Greets jos
Jos,
For what you want to do, I agree the HW30S is a better choice. You don’t need the extra velocity the 50S gives, and it really doesn’t do anything the 30S doesn’t also do. Both have the Rekord trigger, and the 30S is easier to cock, so why not go with it?
B.B.
The HW30s is my next choice for a springer. They were out of stock the last time I checked.
Okay, thanks for the answer.
I already have the R1, the R9 (hw85) and the feinwerkbau 300s custom. Im looking for a light cocking mild powered springer witch is as accurate as my other airrifles.
I want a SMOOTH shooter.
Thanks
Jos
Jos,
Yes. I think the 30S is the right gun for you.
B.B.
Well what’s the answer?
So now it pops up after I rrply
Hmm, so it takes 33lbs to cock as opposed to the FWB124s 18lbs. yet it gets only 50fps more (875 versus 825).And it still needs to be tuned ! And it weighs a pound more then the 124! So the only thing slightly better is the slim stock fell and the adjustable lighter trigger.I think Im better off with the originla classic and probably save a few hundred dollars . I could put that toweards a good tune. Shame on FWB for not being thorough in a new redesigned sporter.It just goes to prove that its still hard to beat the old classics like FWb 124s or even the old Racine Sheridans!!!
CV,
Welcome to the blog!
The FWB 124 does not cock with 18 lbs. of force. That is what it was ADVERTISED to cock at! When I tested them, they actually cocked at between 23 and 26 lbs. of force, and that was because they had that objectionable long stroke piston that made them so hold sensitive.
Let’s first finish the test of the new Sport rifle before we make any decisions about it.
B.B.
My two FWB 124s with”that objectionable long stroke piston” are no more hold sensitive than any other springer in my safe, and less than most.
Hi Tom, where do you rate the blue quality at?, in the picture it does not look as nice as a TX200 or possibly an R9- HW.. that could be lighting though..
Also is the barrel lock up tight ? it looks like a ball, RWS and HW’s lock up tight, but my past 124′s do not and I cant use as heavy a break as I like on a rifle.. It seems the barrels want to drop, even with an accidental slap or fast movement..
I like that they went with metal on the sight and the styling is good with me.. plastic on the guard so is it on my 300RT o well- LOL
Airrifle@,
The bluing on the Sport is similar in quality (finish and shininess) to a Weihrauch. It is way lesws shiny than a TX200 Mark III.
Yes the breech locks very tight. It has a powerful chisel detent. Only the Walther LGV locks this tight, and it has a lock.
B.B.
My other comments appear to have been eaten by the machine so I’ll try again. I think the price point is a marketing thing that is to appeal to a certain type, perhaps those prone to conspicuous consumption and to take advantage of the FWB brand. It made me a little irritable at first, but on reflection,I’ll just welcome it as another choice. I strongly doubt it is 2+X better than an R9, 3+X better than a DD34,etc., in terms function and incremental value, but it is not aimed at the value conscious consumer. So, I doubt it’s a choice I’ll make, but I will focus my irritation on makers who do target the cost conscious consumer yet continue to neglect real improvements that could be made at reasonable cost in favour of useless featues desirable to a fairly ignorant market…
BG_Farmer,
I looked for your previous comments in the spam folder, but they weren’t there. Not sure what happened to them, but I do know that things vaporize for no reason.
Edith
Edith, no problem! I just didn’t want more of my inane comments corrupting the blog w/o explanation why!
B.B.
Back from France 🙂
The rifle looks nice. And as it is FWB it must, without doubt, shoot nice. The only thing that leaves me puzzled is why did they still choose breakbarrel over underlever/sidelever? Breakbarrel is inherently prone to losing accuracy with time (ok, FWB knows how to make this time ages, but still) and not quite good for scope use. Perhaps they tried to uphold a tradition.
duskwight
Duskwight,
I don’t know. I think an accurate breakbarrel with conventional sights might go well now. They are up against the Walther LGV, so let’s see what the Sport can do.
B.B.
OK, Sorry B.B. Im a little quick on the draw.Still 25lbs coking as opposed to 33lbs plus one pound weight more for very little increase in power.Im glad to hear that they address the little ball detente with a stronger chisel style. I still dont get why they insisted on those tranverse stop grooves,though. Forces you to use special ring mounts. I sure hope you wil take that puppy apart to reveal the insides!! If we get a few more improvements it could turn that pendulum back over. So this cocking lever is still a once piece long stroker as opposed to the articulate jointed styles -correct?
CV,
This isn’t my rifle to play with. After I am done testing it it goes back tp Pyramyd AIR. So taking it apart is out for me.
B.B.
To all,
So far, the last 2 newly designed and produced spring rifles are break barrels (Walther LGM and this FWB). Why break barrel and not under-levers or side-cockers? Is it because break barrels are cheaper to produce or what?
B.B. I think the stock shape and grain look nice, something new and slightly different. I’m also glad they went ambi as I am a lefty and find it difficult sometimes to shoot right handed only stocks or the dreaded ” can be used by lefty’s as well”. I agree with Edith on why it costs so much but understand others opinions because that is a big chunk of change. I’ll wait to see you shoot it before any final judgements but if it shoots and feels nice the money is part of the game.
With a break barrel springer air rifle, the artillery hold and a straight pull back on the trigger (with follow thru) is going to be important. For this reason, I generally do not like a pistol grip at all, much less a steep one. The pistol grip tends to force your trigger hand up (assuming you are indeed gripping the grip) relative to your forearm. This lengthens the distance the palm of your trigger finger has to reach in order to avoid pulling sideways. Hence, one has to sacrifice the grip in order to move the trigger finger forward…and what’s the use of a grip styled stock in that case? On a weapon which is not, or is less, hold sensitive, this is not an issue. Maybe the superior trigger will render my perceived problem nonexistent. Whadyathink?
I put a self adhesive rubber button on the rear wrist of the grip to make a repeatable position for my thumb and just pinch the trigger using my thumb and curled forefinger without wrapping any other fingers around the grip.
This minimizes pulling the gun off target during the firing cycle. Also works with pcps that have smaller but definite recoil.
Feinwerk
I remember you talking about that in the past. After you talked about it I made sure I started placing my thumb in the same spot on my guns with convectional stocks. I didn’t use the rubber pad but I’m now in the habit of placing my thumb in the same spot. It did help that’s for sure.
The stocks with the pistol grips kind of forces you to place your thumb in a certain spot every time. Well some of them anyway. But yes that is a good tip.
Matt61–Funny music, I can give you some examples- Mozart wrote a musical joke, Haydn the surprise symphony. Closer to our time, the music of Spike Jones. Ed
This FWB sure is getting a lot of attention. Some of the biggest discussions I’ve seen in awhile on the yellow forum, and all of the talk here, and we are still waiting to hear how it shoots. With Part Two of this report, hopefully tomorrow the 30th, plus at least two reports on the yellow forum tomorrow as well, it is going to get even bigger in no time at all. The biggest point, appears to be the price. Apparently a lot people want this air rifle without that price, and they are getting upset over it. The fun starts soon…
900 bucks, buzzy action and fugly as heck. Why anyone would buy this over a TX or HW that are many hundreds cheaper is beyond me. Oh and if I have to tune a 900.00 gun, then im looking elsewhere….
Hey B.B.,
I am one of those that have been waiting on this gun with great anticipation. So far I like everything I see. I’m not sure what to think about the buzz. Since my primary intention is to use the rifle for bench rest shooting unless the buzz proves to be distracting I don’t expect it to be a problem. I focus so hard on follow through that I am not likely to pay the buzz much attention unless it’s horrible. Beyond that I believe the buzz will be easily dealt with. I think the FPS is perfect for my intended use. As far as price, for me that is going to be a function of accuracy. If this rifle is as accurate as I expect it to be price will not be an issue. To sum up, there is way too much to discover about the gun to draw any significant conclusions yet. I pray that it lives up to all of my expectations. Nothing would thrill me more than to find out we now have the new best springer available. That’s what I want. My current stock of good springers are the Beeman R9, Weihrauch HW30S, A.A. TX200 and Walther LGV Master Ultra. I truly hope this new FWB blows them all away.
G&G
It won’t. The new FWB is a very well made airgun, but its stock, sights, weight & size etc. makes it a better rifle for hunting and offhand shooting than for benchrest work.. It may hold up against a Tx200, but will certainly not “blow it away” in terms of accuracy.
G&G,
That’s the spirit!
B.B.
Wow! Did they ever price this thing for a certain demographic. Way outta the realm of possibility for the average consumer. It’s gonna be hard to feel like you got your money’s worth.For this reason, I foresee a lotta complaints.
Sorry,I had to say something. I’m not a hater but if that’s what happens, they asked for it.
Rerb
I am with you for 900 bucks for a spring gun it had better beat the old 124 by a huge margin and it still would be out of my range.
The 124 that I built for a friend was an middle range of ease of cocking and butter smooth when firing with out much jump or recoil and it averaged 800 FPS on a fresh tune so with time I would expect it to gain 40 or 50 FPS.
I am still waiting for him to sell it to me and ask whenever I talk to him.
buldawg
My Dad’s buddy has a Hummer he’s restoring that he’ll take a G for.
Reb
I don’t want no hummer and could not afford to drive it out of my front yard because you have to own a gas station to drive one of those.
Buldawg
A Harley hummer,not a GM!
reb
Ok that’s is definitely different but I can’t ride what I have now so I don’t need another one. Also I have a evo hardtail that I bought when working at the bike salvage shop with a delkron case and S&S cylinders and Edelbrock heads that I have not even had time to get up and running so no more projects that roll for me for awhile until I can ride again.
But he has a piece of history there for sure.
Buldawg
I had the honor of playing a few spots on Bluegrass shows while these guys were too. awesome show!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXG2HDfOQ4
I just just posted a video of part of one of their shows. Hopefully it will be allowed later.I was playing games in the gameroom next to their show when one of the guys wiped out during their pursuit chase and swelled his head up like a watermelon. about 2 months later he came back wearing a Halo.It’s hard to find video of their show as it was $1 admission to watch the California Hell riders perform their show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqXG2HDfOQ4
I finally just sent it to your e-mail.
Reb
Saw it but have not got chance to check it out and am going to do so now and will reply to your email.
Buldawg
Finally..after all the 175$ supermagnum springers and heavy “much accuracy for the buck” Field Target springers…a great sporter airgun. Yes, it is very expensive – but then, a Shelby Mustang is also expensive. Just have a look at the iron sights and the beautiful stock. Yes, you don’d need either if you slap on a scope anyway. Yes, a TX2000 gives you probably a bit more accuracy at a lower price level. But there are some people who want a sleek, stylish, great-looking and great-feeling sporter airgun, and have the money to buy this little jewel. In 50 years, this gun will still attract the shooters at airgun shows, when all the Gamos and Stoegers and Hatsans are already in the dust bin.
I won’t buy the rifle – it is too expensive for me – but I appreciate the fact that such great-looking and well made pellet rifles are made, and also that a manufacturer is not only trying to put as much accuracy and power for the lowest possible cost into an airgun, but sees that there is more to a gun than just plain performance.
Mel,
That is a good comparison.
B.B.
First I would like to thank Tom for referring me to the TX200MK3 as my first air rifle 2 years ago (I am a spring chicken at 55). 🙂 It was what he said it was, and I did get her tuned. 40,000 shots and it only needed new breech seals. That being said my FWB Sport will arrive tomorrow. I am very excited, but will not get to caress her until Friday. I am hopeful I will be able to make favorable comparisons with the master’s results.
Me
I have to disagree with you on the fact that all lower priced guns will be in the trash in 50 years. Gamos I will agree that they are not worth a quarter of what they want for them, I cannot comment on Stoegers other than the 22lr luger lookalike that I own that is a Stoeger and is 25+ years old, although it is made by the actual firearm company and not a rebranded airgun that we see so many of these days. I do own a 45 year old Crosman 1400 that will outperform that 900 dollar sporter and looks just as sexy now as it did in 1968 when I bought it brand new. It was pulled out of a closet after 20 years about a year ago and oiled up and shot just as good as the day I got it. I did put a fresh kit in it just because I could and wanted to but it by no means needed it and I think I paid 80 bucks for it so just because that sporter is made by a german company and cost 900 dollars does not mean that it will be any better of a gun in 50 years than any other one as it is all in how it is taken care of in its lifetime.
I just do not see 900 dollars worth of air gun or real gun in that new sporter and even if I could afford the 900 for one I would not buy it as I don’t think it is worth any where near that amount.
Yes a Shelby mustang is expensive, but once again you are paying for the name more so than for the true performance of the car as anyone can build a mustang to perform just as well for less than the Shelby.
I guess it is as they say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder because I do not see the beauty of this gun as others do to me it is just another overpriced gun relying on their name to warrant the high Price. Now the old 124s that they made back in the 70s are a different story, but I don’t see 900 in this gun now.
But then I am an old fart stuck in the 70s also so what do I know about the new fads and just feel that the quality and pride in anything made now is not there like it was back then.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
The new FWB airgun is exactly about what you talk about: It is made with pride and utmost quality in mind…made just like they used to make airguns. Believe my, I handled one. And if you compare the 900$ with the average income, you’ll see that airguns used to cost that much back in the days. Just the all-metal sight and the fish scale cut on the grip is something you won’t see anywhere else.
And yes, the price tag makes it a no-go for most shooters, including myself. But you know, Pyramydair already has about 170 different spring-piston airguns to choose from. I don’t need another synthetic stock 1000 fps 200$ springer. There’s enough of those on the market.
Nowadays, most people consider four factors when they buy an airgun. These are – 1) good accuracy in tests 2) good trigger 3) good power 4) low price. This makes sense, as these factors are important for the results. However, it also led to a stringent rationalisation in the airgun development. Iron sights are neglected or omitted, the stocks of modern airguns would make the good old gunmakers cringe. Too many people forget that a rifle must fit the shooter like a piece of clothing, and also the fact that they are supposed to have fun with the gun – that’s why we go out and shoot!
As for Stoeger: The company used to be a highly regarded Italian armsmaker. Nowadays, their brand name ist used to market severel well-known chinese airguns which are put in a new stock and equipped with some plastic thingies to look better.
Me
I have not handled a new FWB myself so I cannot comment on it feel, but I myself do not care for all the fish scale flashy bling and only care about how it performs. I do like that it is all wood and metal but just don’t see 900 dollars worth of it on that gun.
I am also the type of person that will look for the best price on something as I have to watch every penny. I have to agree that there are way to many spring guns out there that are all mostly made by three or four companies and rebranded for sale by a multitude of companies. Most everything we buy in this country anymore is made in china in some form or way that is what I mean by products not having the quality in them like they did back in the 60s and 70s.
I have a 40 dollar rebranded crosman spring gun that shoots like it is a 900 dollar gun so that is some of why I think that this FWB is way overpriced for what it is. I will wait till we see how it performs to give a final opinion on it but at the price it is also out of my bracket.
Like I said I am an old fart that like the plain Jane approach to items and would much rather buy an ugly duckling that can swim circles around a swan than have the best looking swan on the block if it cannot keep up with the ugly duckling. Looks are not that important to me as long as it performs as it is designed to , but then I am not the average Joe either and have always had older ugly looking cars and bikes that would flat out run off and leave the new flashy stuff without even breathing hard.
So that’s is why we have so many to choose from so we all can be happy.
Buldawg
buldawg
Speaking of choices. Did you decide on the Marauder or the Hawke scopes?
Gunfun
That would be a Hawke scope for me thank you. I just need the scope more than I do the Mrod right now and for 340 bucks I would rather pay another hundred and buy one that has not been molested by someone else. The scope is more in my budget right now so that’s is what I will get and work on the funds for an Mrod down the road because I have enough guns to get all tuned and sighted right now to add another to my plate at this time.
Buldawg
buldawg
I kinda thought you would say the Hawke scope.
You do have a few toys now don’t you. 🙂
Gunfun
I do have a few toys and just can’t justify buying another gun until I get the one I have all working to my satisfaction. You know what I mean and how anal I can get so I have to finish the projects I have right now before I get more to take my time up.
I have decided on my plan for the hipacs. I am going to get a couple1/8 pipe thread half bungs to have welded on the front of the cylinder after I cut the foster fitting off so it leaves a 3/16 inch hole in the front of the tube for the check valve of a regular thread in foster fitting to sit against while filling and allow it to be pushed back into the foster when pressure is released after filling. The bungs are 1.19 at McMaster Carr and are designed for being welded on for that exact purpose and are rated at 6000 psi. Then measure the o-rings in the kit and get a few that are slightly larger in diameter of the cross section of the ones from the kit also from MCmaster Carr to have a selection to use to keep the sections sealed as the O-rings are 3 to 4 buck per 100 and that way I hopefully can keep from having to weld the sections together to fix the leaks and I will feel much safer with the foster fitting threading into a bung with 8 to 10 threads of engagement for security.
So that is my plan for the hipac and total cost for the additional parts should be less than 20 bucks including shipping as they are in Atlanta and they ship the same day as ordered and I get the part the next day.
I will keep you updated. have you ordered your HW30 yet so we can get our 20% back when it rains at the pyramid air cup.
buldawg
buldawg
Sounds like you got a plan.
No I didn’t order they are out of stock. And I’m like you I don’t really need another toy. What I should do is stock up on some pellets.
Gunfun
I am getting ready to order the scope and mounts. The PA site is suggesting high mounts and I think I can get away with medium mounts to keep the scope as low as possible but cannot find a dimension for the mediums so do you know right off if the mediums will work for the 44mm lens of the hawke or should I just get the highs and not take the chance. The hawke on my hatsan has high mounts on the weaver mounts base and has about a half inch above receiver but it has to clear the mag and I was putting this scope on my hipac or springer where it will not have to clear magazine.
What do you think/
buldawg
buldawg
I have short mounts on my Mrods because I don’t use the magazines. I got mediums on my Hatsan and 2240 with the steel breech.
The mediums on my 2240 with the Hawke scope when I had it on there had about a 1/8″ space between the objective and the Discovery barrel.
So if you don’t have a barrel that steps up to a bigger diameter on your 2240 you should be good with the medium rings.
Gunfun
That’s what I needed to know as I don’t have a larger barrel it just a shorter 18 inch disco barrel and my springers have dovetails except for the venom which is piccatinny rail so medium, should work and keep the scope as low as possible.
got to order before midnight
Thanks Buldawg
Gunfun
Got the scope and mounts ordered, but had to skip on the pellets as funds are low and it was a stretch to just get the scope and mounts. but I know the scope is worth it and I am going to sell the CV life rebranded scope that is just like the Leupold I got for 50 bucks and use that money to buy pellets after I sell some more stuff on ebay. Besides wally world carries the 10.5 CPs in the tin for ten bucks so it only about four bucks I save from PA and actually for 30 bucks at wally world I get 1500 pellets and the JSB 10.34 were out of stock so I will wait and get them with the CPs in the box later.
The CPs from wally world shoot real good in my springers so I will use them for now till I can try the boxed ones and see if they are rurally any better. Thanks again for getting back to me on the mounts quickly so I could get the order in by midnight and start our rain dancing for the 20% back.
Now I just have to get the 1/8 pipe bungs and O-rings ordered and can get my hipacs working without leaks I hope ( fingers crossed) and then get them all sighted in as I think I am going to leave the tunes on the hipacs alone for now till I do some sighting and see how much the POI changes with the pressure drops. I think using the bungs is a better idea than just drilling the tube and threading it for the fitting, plus I can do away with the spring and 2 nylon washer that hold the check valve in the fitting as the end of the tube will do that where the bung is welded on at which give a little more air volume as a plus also.
Buldawg
Gunfun
I missed the 20% deadline as it was 12 pm eastern and I did not get it ordered till after 12 pm eastern but before 12 pm central so that sucks.
Buldawg
buldawg
Yep that does. Why can’t we have just one time zone. You did use the 10% coupon code though didn’t you?
Gunfun
Yep I did use the 10% off coupon and also sent an email begging to let me be included in the 20% back if it rains deal as I really thought it ended at 12 pm central because isn’t Ohio in the central time zone or is it eastern. I thought Pa was in the central time zone, but I will see what they say and maybe they will feel sorry for me and let me in. if I can’t be included then it had better not rain, but that’s what I get for waiting till the last minute
Buldawg
Gunfun
So I hope it don’t rain on the 25 now because I was late on my order, no rain dancing for me BUMMER. I thought since they were central time that is when it ended not eastern
Buldawg
buldawg
What?!? You hope it don’t rain.
I bet a lot of people got orders in hoping it will.
You know what now that you said that I bet it does rain. 😉
Gunfun
I was just being sarcastic because I was late getting my order in and will lose out on the 205 back. I hope it does rain also for everyone else but just wished I had not waited so late to order.
Buldawg
buldawg
I hope you weren’t waiting for me to reply for those scope ring heights.
I was at work still and couldn’t reply.
Gunfun
It was already after midnight eastern time when I asked you about the mounts so it would have made no difference, I should not have waited till the last minute like I did so it is not any fault of yours as I knew you were at work and may not be able to reply instantly.
if you look at the time stamp on my question to you it was 12.43 Am eastern time so its all on me not you so no issue with you here and am actually glad you let me know that the medium mounts would be what I was wanting for the lowest scope height mounting
Buldawg.
buldawg
No I didn’t look at the time.
You should have your scope and rings by the weekend end then right?
Gunfun
I got the tracking number today and it shows delivery for Friday so yep I will have then this weekend, but remember it is the nationals this weekend here in Heflin so I will be occupied there most of the weekend. It is supposed to be raining most all of Friday so I will have to wait and see how that goes, but Saturday is supposed to be in the low 70s and sunny so I will be there on Saturday for sure.
Buldawg
buldawg
I forgot about the nationals.
Keep your eye’s open when you go. I will be waiting for some good stories.
Gunfun
I will definitely be paying attention and will try to get some pics also. I have never been to one so don’t really know what to expect. Like I said it is supposed to rain heavy Friday AM and be on out of here by noon so it will be interesting to see how the shooters deal with our good ole Alabama red clay that gets like ice when it rains.
The field target range is up on a ridge overlooking a hollow that the targets are placed down in and up the other side of the hollow with a couple up in the limbs of trees. The stations for shooting at the targets are on plain red clay and dirt surfaces of uneven and angled terrain with some roots and other irregularities to have to contend with. So adding in rain and slippery mud will make it very interesting indeed especially for those that are accustomed to shooting from the seated position, They will need a tarp or other water proof covering to keep from having wet britches on Friday any way and then they just Said it will be a low in the mid forties on Saturday morning with a high of mid sixties, so we will be going from a high of 85 tomorrow and Friday to mid 40s on Saturday AM up to mid 60s in the afternoon.
That should make for some very interesting competition indeed and I am anxious to see what type of equipment and ingenuity the pros have to make the shooting easier under the changing conditions that we will be having. It should be a great time and an opportunity to learn a whole lot for my future hunter class matches.
I will definitely give you a complete overview of the weekends happenings on Friday and Saturday evenings.
Buldawg.
.
buldawg
I luv everything you just explained about the course and conditions. I will definitely be waiting to hear what you have to say.
And that sounds exactly like our forecast starting tomorrow. Sounds like you will be getting it right after us.
But definitely interested in how it goes. See if you can find out about the scopes and guns in the hunter class. That’s the field target class I like.
Gunfun
Yep I think you are sending us the weather on Friday to make it interesting.
I will find out all I can about the hunter class, I do know that the scope magnification cannot be over 12 power or if it is it has to be set as close to 12 power as possible and is supposed to be limited to 20 FPE. The president of the local club owns the targets and that day when I went to check it out and got mixed up where the sighting range was versus the actual target range was he told me that I could shoot at the field targets with my hatsan even thought the lowest FPE it makes with the 12.65gr H&N hollow points is 35 FPE. I do not believe that would still be the case in actual competition shooting though as it would be a huge advantage to have 15 fpe over what is in the rule book and that is why I was wanting to use my 2240 hipac 177 for that class so I could get as close to 20 fpe as possible. My nitro 177 gun makes 16.46 with the 10.5 gr CPs so it would be a good gun to use also and with it in the synthetic stock of the Firepower it is light enough to be carried between stations.
I need to get me a shooting bag/box for all the stuff needed to shoot and carry between stations, using the break barrel would mean not having to carry a buddy bottle to top up with and also keep the fps/fpe more consistent over the hipac. Its just the hipac is about 2 LBs lighter than the nitro gun so it is a toss up as to which one will work the best. I do have my shooting stool and bipod so its just choosing a gun and the support equipment the particular gun needs to shoot with. decisions, decisions, decisions.
Buldawg
buldawg
Yep your right about the 12 power. That’s kind of why I’m staying with the 10 power Hawke scopes for just in case purposes if I ever do give the hunter field target a try.
But you know what my .25 Mrod has the 4.5-12 power 1/2 mildot scope on it. Same features as the 2.5-10power scopes we have.
So I will be waiting to see if you find some secrets there. 🙂
Gunfun
Does that extra difference between 10 and 12 power make a big difference in the magnification of the target at the closer ranges or is really only helpful out past 50 yards. Just wondering if it is worth the extra cost to get a little more power.
I have not mounted my 10×40 by 50mm aimsport scope on my AR yet so I don’t even know if 40 power will really help these tired old eyes see a target out at 100 yards or not or if its is just a waste of magnification power. I just have so many thing that need done along with every day chores and up keep on my house that I never seem to have the time anymore.
It does not help that I never know from one day to the next how my arthritis is going to behave and so far this week it is not really cooperating because I have felt like I have been hit buy a truck every morning and then they back up and hit me again after lunch time. I think it is the changing of the seasons and weather . It used to be my wife was the best weather forecaster I had because of her Fibromyalgia, but now I have a new respect for what she has dealt with for years as my arthritis is doing the same to me and we both can tell when the weather is changing.
I am going to be trying to pick up on any secrets that I can also this weekend so that I can have a better idea of what to expect in November when I start my first hunter class match.
I will let you know everything I can find out.
Buldawg
buldawg
It’s getting hard to get a place to post.
I’m going to reply all the way at the bottom.
If you only care how the rifle performs for its cost and don’t care about looks, the new FWB won’t be the gun of you choice. Mine neither, but I like the fact that there is finally a gun like that available.
Me
I cannot say I am glad or not as like you I cannot afford this gun nor would I pay 900 for a gun that needs work done to quiet a noise that should have been fixed before it ever left the factory.
The fact that FWB would sell a gun that makes that loud of a buzz as BB stated it does tells me they do not have their quality control up to the standard that the name implies and that is my main complaint about this being an FWB and made out to be such a high quality gun. It in my opinion has not been made to the standards that I would feel fitting of the FWB name and would be ashamed to say I had anything to do with designing or building it myself.
Buldawg
Buldawg76,
The reason the FWB cost so much is because buyers like you must cover the high cost of taxes and fee that FWB must paid the German govt’. In German, the business tax is higher and so is the cost of labor than even U.S. In addition, the Euro to USD exchange rate is not 1:1. I don’t even know if Germany charge an EXport tax also like some countries do. Isn’t socialism GREAT?
FYI – the sale tax in Germany is 19% and I think U.K. is the same. Again that is why the TX is up to $700 now.
I am German, and always chuckle when comparing US and EU prices. Want some examples?
Feinwerkbau Sport. USA: 900$, Germany: 500€
Crosman Recruit sccpe combo: USA 55$ Germany 140€ (!!)
Weihrauch Hw30S: USA 330$, Germany 170€
Baikal IZH 61: USA: 130$, Germany 100€
At this moment, 1 euro = US$1.26 so
e500= US$ 630
e140= US $176
e170 = US$240
and e100 is US$126
Just for giggles.
Fred DPRoNJ
Mel,
I lived in Germany for nearly 4 years and saw what you are showing us, firsthand. We Americans are very insulated from the rest of the world, unless we have travelled. We have a hard time seeing things any way but our own.
B.B.
Mel,
Thanks, and if such is the case, won’t people buy from Germany instead of Pyramdyair?
Joe
I never thought about the exchange rates and cost in Germany. My main concern and complaint is that for 900bucks or 200 bucks you should not get a gun that needs a tune or any other work done to it to quiet a buzz or vibration in it brand new.
That is why I sold a Gamo whisper that I bought new at a discount price from sportsmans guide that had a bad buzz and twang in it new and it retails for 170 to 200 bucks depending on where you buy it. I only paid 100 bucks for it but with the noise and vibrations it had there was no way I was going to keep it. I know there is no comparison between a Gamo and a FWB but for 900 dollars with the buzzing BB stated it had I don’t see much difference in quality or pride of craftsmanship between the two to warrant 700 bucks difference in price. The mere fact that FWB let that gun go to be sold to the public making that kind of noise tells me that their quality control is not any better than Gamos. That is where I make my stand about not being made with the quality and pride of the 70s era of FWB and the other fine German gun makers.
I bought a Firepower spring gun off gun broker about 2 months ago for 40 bucks brand new and found that it is a rebranded Crosman Quest/Vantafge etc. It shoots so smooth and noise free that it changed my mind about owning a spring gun and that is one reason I only spent 40 bucks to see what a spring gun was like and you could not pry this firepower out of my hands now that I have shot it and know what a good spring gun feels and should shoot like, so for 900 bucks it had better aim it self to get my attention and I don’t see any of that type of quality in the FWB that BB was given to test.
Buldawg
My experience with UK purchases (porcelain figurines) was that if I had the shop ship direct to the US they would deduct the VAT (which usually covered the cost of shipping).
Builawg,
Based on what I said above, YOU DON’T GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR, unless the products you are comparing are all made in the same country.
Joe
In my opinion these day you don’t get what you pay for regardless of where it is made or who it is made by because every company is trying to cut costs to the point that there can be no real quality in products today.
it is all about how much they can cut cost on and still make the public believe they are getting the same quality in the new product that they did in the old product.
I saw that first hand when working with Harley in a test facility as a mechanic in the durability fleet of bike , the engineers were instructed to make the parts as cheap as possible to make them last thru the 2 year warranty period and then they would fail. 20 years ago there was a standard in the engineering field that the failure/safety ratio for components of most anything made was at 4 to 1, meaning that the part was made 4 times as durable as required to be to do it intended purpose and in 2005to 06 the standard was slowly changed and lowered down to 1 to1 partly due in fact that the technology has allowed them to better control the processes of making the parts, but also so that the parts can be made much cheaper and made to last only as long as the warranty period requires them to work properly before a failure occurs that requires them to be repaired.
That is why I am an old skool person that will stick with my older toys that have a much better chance of lasting a lifetime than any new toy does due to simple unwillingness of companies today to spend the extra amount required to make quality products.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
I agreed with you about older toys or older airguns. I found that one German airgun company that still maintain their high standard, and that is Weihrauch. I own 6 of their air rifles. Two are PCP, the HW100 U.K. version and the HW100 FSB. The last one I purchased is from Pyramdy Air, a year ago.
Joe
Sorry I was not trying to argue or say that you were not agreeing with me and if that is what it seemed like the I apologize because that was not the intent.
I have never owned a Weihrauch so I cannot speak for their quality and have never lived in Germany either so as BB says yes we are very insulated from the rest of the world and that can blind us to prices and exchanges rates from one country to another.
I was just stating my opinion and feeling on why products today do not meet the same standards as the same older product in my opinion and that is mostly due to the fact that most companies are having to cut cost wherever possible just to survive and remain competitive and also that the public as a whole has been conditioned over time to accept the lesser quality products as being as good as the older ones by the society we live in now as a whole and by the marketing from the companies of today. I would wager to bet that companies spend as much if not more on marketing than on research and development today then 20 years ago and that accounts for the lack of quality control and production of the high standards that I was used to seeing in the older products that I still hold on to for there lasting durability.
Buldawg
Actually, I didnt mean to come off as a power monger at all. Im a hunter and I know without a doubt that 22cal is superior over 177 anyway.So with speeds over 750 thats plenty for such a small caliber. What I would love to see is Feinwerkkbau make a gun similar to the R7/R8 size with their quality built in. For me a big deal braker is not so much the price but the size and weight. No secret that heavier guns sit in the closet and small light ones are used the most. When I first saw the stock and general design I plain didnt like it to my taste as it seemed a hard line look. But with time going back over it that seemed to have taken a back seat in that I can get use to the look . I am an original owner of a Sharp Ace Hunter 22cal in which I paid $350 for it years back. Knowing that gun and if I didnt have one I would easily pay $900 for it now,so price isnt too much a deal breaker . But just over 8lbs–ugh! Add rings and a scope your at 9lbs.Hmm, if they offered a walnut version maybe it would bring that weight closer to 7lbs.
CV
What do you hunt?
Well ,it depends,but could be grey squirrels, pigeons, or starlings for the most part. I saw your earlier post and had both guns you talked about-the HW50s and the HW30s/R7. My HW50s was fully tuned and in 22cal though so it was a good thumper out to 35yds and as accurate as the R7. But it was stiffer to cock and fatter heavier gun so I ended up selling it. The R7 is as close to perfection you can find if the small amount of powwr isnt too low for you. For pests its good to about 25yds but you really have to place your shots on the tougher game if its in 177. To me that HW50s is the closest match in size and performance to the FWB 124/127 but with a better trigger and available parts and support. Both guns will do low 800s in 177cal and both will do low 600s in 22cal although the FWB has a slight margin for a little more performance.My FWB 127 actually gets 680fps with a 14.3 gr jsb. Fully Tuned with an Everest spring.
CV
Do you have any PCP guns yet.
And yep we got the starling’s by me. I do take care of them every once in a while. I mostly target and spinner shoot though anymore, well and plink also.
Shame they’re not making it in .22 caliber.
No. I just wont go PCP-period. Im a cranky old airgun nut that plain just likes the old classics. IF I need more range and hitting power I have rimfires for that. 50yds and under, safe in the yard,my Sheridan pumpers, SharpAce, and FWB 127 and R7 is plenty for now. I have to admit that Im slowly starting to like the looks of this FWB-its just taking me longer !(maybe the price-LOL). Now I do hope that white trigger isnt plastic-right? Also what kind of bolt is that thru the breech block-it looks like a roll pin of sorts?
CV
Hmm that’s interesting. I was going to say maybe you don’t know what your missing or maybe you do.
Have you had the chance to shoot a PCP yet?
And I don’t know if you know this. If you look at the end of my comment or the others for that fact there is a box that says reply. If you click on that it will send a email reply directly for the person you reply too. Like us talking back and forth.
If you reply at the bottom of the page it will just post in general.
So you may not get a reply back from someone if by chance you’re asking a question unless they happen to scroll through the comments.
Hey CV,
… a cranky old airgun nut that plain just likes the old classics. LOL!! Sounds like me!
I agree with you that at a certain point in the game if you need more range and hitting power to go to a powder-burner. I shoot some very nice long range groups using sub-sonic .22 rim-fire ammunition in my Browning T-bolt. The local crows know that getting closer than 100 yards can be detrimental to their health!
While I can see the attraction of supersonic pellet rifles my humble opinion is that pellets aren’t meant to go supersonic speeds. If you do push a pellet through the sound barrier it is only there briefly and going supersonic costs so much in accuracy that it is not practical to do so.
I am just (gingerly) testing the PCP waters, recently got a pre-used Hammerli AR20 Combo and a Hill pump – it is a heavy .177 cal FT gun and scope. I have to admit I am very impressed with the performance considering the little testing I have done so far – 10 shot one-hole groups at 25 yards and dime-sized groups at 50 yards are the norm. Great for long range plinking at small targets like empty shotgun shells.
Yeah the extra baggage associated with PCP takes some getting used to but you owe it to yourself to at least try one.
…just my 2 cents.
Cheers!
Vana2
Vana2
But at least your giving one a try. If you do ever get a Benjamin Marauder by chance you will be amazed at the tunability. (I think I just made that word up).
But you can tune them for the amount of shots you want/shot count or what fill pressure you want to use them at. Or you can even turn the power up and use a heavy grain pellet to keep the pellet at a usable velocity and get a lot more foot pounds of energy.
In other words you can have your cake and eat it too. Tune it down with a turn of a Allen wrench and you have a low FPE (foot pounds of energy) field target gun or turn the same Allen wrenches and have a gun that makes enough energy for hunting.
Plus they are a fairly light gun and smooth is beyond compare of any tuned spring gun. I shot spring guns, pump guns, nitro piston/gas ram guns and only the pump guns come close to performance of the pcp guns as far as smoothness goes.
My first pcp gun was the Benjamin Discovery when they came out. I have been hooked on PCP guns ever since and only recently have I started looking into some higher dollar spring guns.
But I think if people are into air guns I think they are missing out if they at least don’t try a pcp gun. Anyway just my opinion. But have fun shoot’n.
Hi Gunfun1,
I am actually doing research on the Benjamin Marauder (when my wife is not around) and just finished reading through BBs reports on it at lunch. Very interesting.
Being new to the PCP world I was amazed when the AR20 stacked pellet on pellet without effort (had to be the gun – wasn’t me doing it!) so now I am thinking that a PCP for hunting would be nice to have.
I have no idea what I would get – every time someone mentions a specific model I go charging off to check some reviews on it. I’d like to say that I am forming an idea about PCPs but I am still in a confused state from reading so much. Lots to learn, not going to be easy to make a choice.
I am wondering on how important having a regulated air source is relative to a rifles’ accuracy and shots-per-fill (important because I am using a hand-pump) and if it should be considered a “mandatory feature”.
Good shoot’n eh!
Vana2
Vana2
I’m thinking for some reason you are part of the success for the good group’s. The gun can’t do everything. 🙂
And there is a lot more involved with pcp’s than people think. The nice thing about the Marauders is they shoot fine right out of the box. But you have the option to tune as you get more advanced in how they do work.
And about the regulator. They will keep your shots more consistent in velocity for a more amount of shots per a given fill pressure. I asked BB about them in the past and one of the things that stuck in my mind is that’s another thing that can fail.
On of the things about the Marauder is there is a bunch of things that can be done or purchased for them.
It sounds like I’m trying to push the Marauder but I just know there is a lot that can be done with them. I have and had other PCP guns also. And they all have their plusses and minuses.
I think your doing a good thing though by checking them out and reading about the different ones. And I know that BB and others have answered a lot of my questions in the past. So this is a good place to be.
But got to go. I’m at work right now. Talk to you later.
Gunfun1,
Thanks for your comments.
Been reading… The AA 510 is a beauty, AF Condor is a beast, but all considered, a .22 caliber Marauder looks like it would be an excellent starting point for me. From what I can find out, the Marauder seems to be a good performer at a reasonable price with the potential for some fun tinkering/tweaking as well. Gotta like that!
Vana2
Vana2
Always so many decisions. I wish I could have them all. 🙂
HA HA ,no I didnt noctice the link !! No I never shot a pcp but you know that any pneumatic pumpers are really PCPs just that they carry the pump in a much nicer looking package than the stupid looking PCPs you see today. First PCP I saw was that Career 707. It looked like anover/under 3 barrel shotgun with the reciever lower than the barrel-So UGLY . I didnt care if it could hit an aspirin at 100 yds I wouldnt own it. All these bullpuppys and tripod plastic repeating shot airguns are not in my interest for airguns. I like challenging myself ,not making it easier with high tech . Its why I hunt with a longbow and wood arrows than a compound and rangefinder along with cameras.Even fishing I just wont use any sonar to locate a school. Takes the fun out of fishing . Im too traditional,I guess. My Sharp Ace will throw a 22cal 14.3gr pelllet at up to 850fps with match accuracy.Isnt that PCP enough? One shot at a time -no rush or need for second followups. You miss you miss -get over it concept.
CV
Read the comment I wrote above for Vana2.
And I bet you wouldn’t of liked the semi-auto FX Monsoon I had then. I don’t know if you seen them but they are a pcp and the action functions from air. Its not battery powered. It was .22 caliber and would shoot 18 grain JSB’s at close to 900fps as fast as you could pull the trigger or slow down and make clover leaf groups at 50 yards with its shrouded smooth twist barrel and get a bout 30 shots per fill.
I sold that gun to my brother in law that I have hunted and shot with since I was a kid. he said it reminds him of the .22 rimfire guns we use to shoot. But I will say this that was a mistake on my part selling it to him.
But I guess everybody has their own idea of what they like and if your having fun then that’s what counts.
Gunfun2, yes, I am having fun with my old timers. This summer I brought a Crosman MK I up to snuff a la LD style but instead of those god awful huge scopes on the pistol and keeping the barrel at near factor stock length I had a Millett adjustable rear sight and limited myself to just 25 yds or less shooting. Figured at 520fps thats the range it will be effective for small game. Its only single shot but when I drilled that squirrel thru the head at 25 yds it was worth any field tournament trophy in my book. My sheridans wont print dime sized groups at 50 yds but I get under an inch easy enough. Lets see ,I had one silver streak built in the late 50s all original seals still going 725fps at 10 pumps .Thats over 55 years ago. Do you think your PCPS will endure the same?
CV
Sounds like some fun shooting you have done.
And about the PCP lasting 55 years. I hope. But I don’t know if I will be around to find out. That would make me a 108 in 55 years.
Will you be around to tell. I guess I shouldn’t ask. That’s another unknown question. You know what I mean.
BB- actually the rifle in your in your pictures looks much better then what I just seen on another site, the blue and metal finish on that one was more Diana like or Turkish Webley like, not a near $1000.00 I wouyld like to see an AA-HW and Diana 34-36 next to it..
I have many HW rifles and older 124 that are much glossier then that and do not show so any where as much machining marks underneath the blueing…. They would have done better selling at an even higher price and providing a quality for at least collectors, cuz I don’t understand what market they targeted…. The price is way out there- no excuse please!!! no walnut no gloss on metal- it is what it is.. Not my dollars.. least not this time around.. They know how to make great guns, seems they are not trying this time around.. Keep the box-stickers and name.. I work hard for my dollars and am willing to spend them on quality.. I at least expect some value.. AR.
buldawg
Moved it down here.
We was talking about the Hawke scopes. I have had some big power scope’s in the past. And I have used them this way. And maybe other people do different.
And this is in relation to air gun’s. When I’m checking for range from let’s say 60 yards and in I turn the scope up on a higher power. It allows you to get a more precise focus with your side wheel parralax adjustment. And that means you will be able to repeat your range more precisely everytime. Then I turn the power back down to a power that I determined was a sharp clear picture for my eyes.
I shoot with both eyes open so 6 power works for me when I’m taking the shot.
So I guess with the question you asked about the difference between 10 power or 12 power to me I don’t notice much of a difference.
The thing is I know the distances my guns perform in and I try to practice at all the different distances in between. Which is from about 15 yards to 65 yards for me. What’s nice is when you can get more than one gun performing the same by pellet choice and tuning the velocities like with PCP guns. That makes things a whole lot nicer when you can pick up different guns and they perform pretty equal as far as poa and poi is concerned.
Again just the way I learned to shoot in close at air gun distances.
Gunfun
That’s something I have never been able to is to shoot with both eyes open. I had always had to wear glasses and my eyes were not the same in the prescription so it was hard to focus on the sights with both eyes open and now since 08 when I had cataract surgery I don’t need glasses except to read and see up close, but I still cannot focus thru a scope with both eyes open. it just seems the left eye is out of focus and makes my right eye unable to focus unless I close my left eye.
I believe they call that a dominant eye syndrome or something to that effect, but I have tried to do it since I had read a long time ago that you should shoot with both eyes open but have never been able to do so accurately. I guess my eyes just will not work together in that situation so I close my left eye and use only my right.
I have learned to adjust the scope settings like you do and it works good for me also. I was just wondering if there was a lot of difference in the extra 2 power magnification and I did not think there would be.
I used what you told me with my scopes on the guns I have sighted at 50 yards and then shoot in my backyard by turning down to 6 power and then just have to hold under by one mil dot to be dead on target at the 15 yards of my back yard.
I learned a trick on some fixed parallax scopes from Rick Eusler on an air gun web training courses in that you can adjust the parallax to focus for the range you will be shooting at mainly on some scopes. If the scope has a front lens cover that will screw off the front and the lens is threaded into the scope housing and has the 2 thin slots in the threaded portion of the scope lens that will allow you to turn the lens assy in the housing, you can turn it slowly while looking thru the scope at the distance you want to shoot at and when it is a clear sight picture just thread the cover back on and now it will be set for the distance you want the parallax to be. it can only adjust a small distance I believe. I tried it on the 3×9 by 32 centerpoint that came on my 22 cal nitro GP as it was not a clear picture in my back yard and it did have the cover that unscrews with an adjustable lens assy in the housing so I was able to turn the lens until the picture of my targets in the back yard are crystal clear now. The scope literature said it had a 25 yard parallax set at the factory , but I was able to turn the lens by hand easily to get it to focus at my 15 yard range very easily. I did not try to focus it out farther as that scope will probably end up on one of my g-kids guns that we use exclusively in the back yard. It was a neat trick that I did know could be done on scopes the have the front cover and lens assy that are able to be turned by hand, if the front cover does not thread off or threads off taking the lens assy with it then it cannot be done that way. But if it comes off like my centerpiont did then it is adjustable within a fair range of distances.
Buldawg
buldawg
Just got home from work. Had a hydraulic line break on a machine right at end of night. That was a nice mess to clean up. It was spraying so hard it was splashing off of a 15 foot ceiling.
But about the both eye open thing. I shoot right hand. I have worn glasses for about 23 years now.
I started off by open and closing my left eye while concentrating on a pin point spot on the target like a small hole from a pellet. You will find the harder you concentrate on that direct spot the better your brain gets at blocking out the other eye.
I can put the gun up to my shoulder now and not even think about closing the other eye. The more you force yourself to do it the better you will become. And for me it seems to make the sight picture brighter. And another benefit is my face is more relaxed. I tend to tense up my face and cheek muscles when I shoot with one eye. My oldest daughter caught me on that when I was shooting bow and arrow one day with her. She asked why I was making that funny face when I was shooting. She said when one eye was closed I would make the face but once I was focused on the target and both eyes open it looked like I was relaxed. She goes I watch you do the same thing when you shoot a gun. I said you make a face don’t you. She goes no dad watch I don’t. She didn’t and then I worked on that myself and it helped tremendously. So I say now its 97% both eyes open for me.
But anyway that’s my one eye story.
And I do know about adjusting the parallax on the fixed parallax scopes. But I don’t like that. Again just me. I like the Hawke sidewinder stuff. They do the job for me.
And like your were talking about how you had to hold under by a mildot. Was that with the .22 cal. guns? If you do the same with the flatter shooting .177 cal. you will find that you only need a half mild dot under till you start getting out to the 50 yard mark. And if you were using the .22 cal. gun and used a lighter pellet you would find it shooting flatter and start getting closer to the half mildot hold under like the .177 cal. pellet. When you start getting that flat trajectory by playing with the weight or velocity you will find that you can start getting your guns set up pretty close to the same. Believe me its nice when you start getting them dialed in like that. But it takes some playing around to get the combination right.
Gunfun
That sound like a fun end to a nights work and as long as you did not get a bath in it then it was not to bad.
I have tried just what you are saying since I got back into shooting air guns and it does not seem to work that way for me as the harder I concentrate with my right eye the blurrier the sight picture seems to get. I honestly cannot say if many years ago when growing up and hunting as a teenager and young adult whether I would close my left eye or not as that was quite a while ago. I will start to try and shoot with both eyes open as I know it is the correct way to do it but I cannot say that it will work, but maybe like you say if I work at it I can get accustomed to it.
I would not adjust the parallax on a high dollar scope either, but this center point is just a cheap scope and it was no good as it was for sighting in at the range of my backyard the way it was because it was out of focus no matter what power it was set at so at least now it is usable to shoot in my back yard.
The holding one mil dot over for my backyard was with my Firepower 177 gun that was sighted at zero for 40 yards and in my backyard is dead on at one mil dot above center with 7.9gr CPs so that is what I use in my back yard and it hits the POI every time. I did see on another of Rick Eusler video about what you are saying by tuning and sighting your guns to shoot in at a zero POI at say 20 yards and then again at zero at 40 yards so that any where in between those distances you can just hold on zero and hit in a I inch circle of the center of the bulls with the 20 and 40 yard distance being dead on at zero and it being slightly higher in between or as you state only having to hold one half mil dot over to hit dead zero. I an working at getting to that point with my guns but have just not had as much time and experience with all my guns yet to get it down pat. I never got this involved back when a teen or young adult to learn all this and was just more concerned that I was able to kill what I was aiming at and not worrying about all the little things that make us even better shooters like we are doing now.
But I am learning and practicing every chance I get and will work on the two eyes open thing and see if I can get it to work.
Buldawg
buldawg
Luckily nobody got a bath. And the guy running the machine was getting ready to turn off the hydraulics. So it could of been messier than it was. Or it would of been bad in the morning when they turned it on.
But yep I know what you mean about trying different things related to shooting style. The main is find what’s comfortable to you.
And I was like you when I was a kid. Ishot open sight, used whatever ammo I could get my hands on and was happy to be able to shoot. You know as well as I do how it when hot rodding something. The more you do it the more you find out there are things to learn.
And what you described about Rick Eusler with his zeroing and the 20 to 40 yard distances and only having to worry about a half mildot is pretty much what I’m talking about. It also works out the same 1/2 mildot under if you shoot up in a tree or down in a valley. Talk to you later.
Gunfun
I just ordered the two 1/8 pipe bungs and some different size O-rings from MCmaster Carr to get my hipacs fixed and it came to 18 bucks so once I get the fosters cut off and the bungs welded on it will be a go to get them fixed and durable for a long haul of fun shooting.
Buldawg
buldawg
You will have to send me pictures of how that all turns out.
Gunfun
Yep I will send you pics when I get them done and working correctly.
Buldawg
Just got mine serial no 1240045