by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Feinwerkbau Sport
This report covers:
• The finish
• Break-in begun
• Trigger-pull
• Velocity
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• Breech locks tight as a bank vault!
• Evaluation so far
• What’s next?
The response to the first part of this report was huge! Even in places where this blog is rarely mentioned, they had a lot to say about the new Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle. Apparently, this has become the new air rifle some people love to hate!
I say that jokingly, because there are a lot of supporters for the new rifle. But there’s also a large camp of people saying how much the airgun should REALLY cost, based on this, that and the other thing. However, in a free-enterprise marketplace, the manufacturer gets to choose the price, not the government or popular opinion. But the other side of that coin is that if enough rifles don’t sell, something may happen to the price or to the gun.
I’m not going to concern myself with that, except that, at this price, I do expect top quality. I’ll concentrate on the rifle that’s before me.
The finish
Several people asked about the level of finish on the metal. I told them it is in the Weihrauch class, which is good but not great. The metal is finished to a satin sheen and in some places it’s matte. I took a detailed photo of the spring tube, the breech block and the barrel that show 3 levels of finish. Please don’t obsess over this closeup. It’s only included to give you an idea of what I am talking about.
It’s difficult to evaluate the finish without having the gun in hand, but what you’re seeing is a spring tube that’s got a sheen, a matte baseblock and a barrel with some sheen.
Break-in has begun
The rifle is getting smoother to cock, and the barrel is moving smoother through its arc. I measured the cocking effort again, and it remains at 33 lbs., and now I don’t think that’s going to drop. But the powerplant does cock smoother already.
The buzzing is also reducing just a little. Again, I don’t think it will vanish entirely, but with some pellets it’s noticeably diminished.
Trigger-pull
The 2-stage trigger requires just over 1lb. to go through stage 1, and stage 2 breaks at exactly 2 lbs.! I was surprised at how light it is, because it feels just as positive as it can be. Usually when a gun fires at less than 3 lbs., something is wrong or else the gun has a target trigger. This is a sporting trigger, but it’s a very nice one. The differences between sporting and target triggers are many, but briefly the sporting trigger is more straightforward and less adjustable than the target trigger. The target trigger can usually be adjusted to stop moving the instant the rifle fires, but a sporting trigger cannot.
Velocity
And, now, we come to the part everybody has been waiting for — velocity. I’ll begin with our standard candle, the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain dome. And, yes, I used the ones in the cardboard box.
Premier Lites averaged 874 f.p.s. in the rifle I’m testing. So, Feinwerkbau’s advertising is right on the money! The spread went from a low of 854 f.p.s. to a high of 882 f.p.s., which is 28 f.p.s. While that’s a little high, the rifle is brand new. At the average velocity, this pellet produces 13.4 foot-pounds of muzzle energy, which is 18.17 joules. Again, right on the money!
Air Arms Falcon pellets
The next pellet I tried was the Falcon dome from Air Arms. This 7.33-grain pellet is made for Air Arms by JSB, but on dies that are owned by Air Arms. No JSB pellet is exactly the same. In the Sport rifle, Falcons averaged 932 f.p.s. with a spread from 926 to 935 f.p.s. That’s just 9 f.p.s., which is pretty good for a brand new spring-piston gun.
At the average velocity, the Falcon produced 14.14 foot-pounds of energy, which is 19.17 joules. That’s above the Feinwerkbau claim of 18 joules. If this pellet proves accurate in this rifle, it’ll be a good one.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets
For the last pellet, I tried the 10.65-grain H&N Baracuda Match. This is a heavyweight dome that has a reputation for accuracy in lots of airguns. In the Sport, they averaged 706 f.p.s., with a spread from 691 to 716 f.p.s. That’s a 25 f.p.s. spread, which is on the high side.
I also noted that the rifle vibrated more when this pellet was shot. I don’t think this is a good pellet for the Sport’s powerplant based just on how it feels when shot.
At the average velocity, Baracuda Match pellets produced 11.79 foot-pounds of energy, which is 15.99 joules. That’s low, considering what the other 2 pellets did.
Breech locks tight as a bank vault!
Another question some readers asked was if the Sport’s breech locks light, because the vintage FWB 124 has a ball-bearing breech that some think doesn’t lock tight enough. The breech on the Sport locks so tight that you have to slap the muzzle to open it. And when it closes, it sounds like a bank vault. The secret is the shape of the detent that engages the lock. It’s very flat on top and, as a result, it takes a lot of force to open the barrel, but a slanted underside to the chisel makes closing easier.
The detent that locks the breech has a flat face on top that keeps the breech closed and a sharper angle below that allows the barrel to close easier.
Evaluation so far
Today’s test reminds me of the days before Chinese breakbarrels were so common, and most airguns were being made in Germany and the United Kingdom. This rifle has quality I have not see since I tested the Walther LGV Challenger.
The trigger is beautiful and needs no adjustment. The rifle holds and feels right . The sights appear to be precise. The breech is tightly locked. If I were going to keep the rifle, I would certainly tear it apart and tune it to get rid of the vibration. At the same time, I would lubricate the powerplant and barrel with the best low-friction lubricants I could find.
What’s next?
Next, I plan to test the rifle for accuracy at 10 meters using the open sights. I’ll use the results of that test for a 25-yard test with open sights again. After that, I will mount a scope and see where that takes us. This is stacking up to be a big test, and I will keep it moving right along for you.
Boy you sure got with part 2 real quick.
Yep this has become a popular gun to talk about already.
Loss of power with H&N Baracuda match is due to head size most likely? Would larger Baracudas eliminate possibility of blowby causing the loss in velocity?/product/h-n-baracuda-match-177-cal-10-65-grains-round-nose-500ct?p=978
Could you confirm you used the 4.52 version out of these three?
/compare/P/838/978/839
Val,
I used H&N Baracuda Match with a head size of 4.50mm. Head size doesn’t determine the blowby, usually. The skirt traps all the air and the head just rides the rifling. Or at least that has been my experience.
B.B.
Ok, that makes sense. Thank you. I have no idea where I got this into my head and that European barrels like smaller headsizes more than American made barrels. It could have been as it relates to 10-meter guns… So the blowby is not a concern, but tilting maybe playing a role… Thanks!
Mine really likes H&N FTT 4.51 head best then AA 8.44 pellets next. She is not very pellet picky. I can slap the barrel without breaking it and hear the spring. 🙂
Hello BB and Fellow Airgunners
Thanks for such a prompt part 2 of the Feinwerkbau Sport test and evaluation. Firstly, may I say I like the velocity numbers you are getting. Some people were claiming the gun to be too slow, however if any company knew what velocity will produce the greatest accuracy, it will be Feinwerkbau (getting easier to spell too). I also think it’s great to see the premium German air gun makers beginning to throw their hat into the ring. If all goes well for this Feinwerkbau, we may see more premium makers vying for a piece of the action. The more the merrier I say as this would only be a boon to our sport. These companies have the kind of deep pockets for research and development we can only speculate about. However, this R+D results in competitive experience that can be measured at the worlds premium competitions . It has been said that competition improves the breed, and competition between companies should bring prices down too. Of coarse, all this is speculative conjecture on my part. Lets find out how this gun performs against the air guns that are available today. I’m looking forward with anticipation to the 10 and 25 meter accuracy tests. I realize you must get more then a few requests to shoot certain pellets, but may I humbly suggest trying JSB Exact 8.44 grain 4.52 pellets? These, and the H+N FTT’s work wonders in most of my guns. Of coarse whichever pellet you use, I suspect we are going to see some darn fine groups.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
I started a list wit this pellet types. If I have them I will test them.
Gonna shoot 5-shot groups and look for one-hole groups. Only those that make the cut go on to 10 shots.
Gotta lotta testing ahead of me.
B.B.
Tom,
I’m sure you have Hobbies on that list, and I would like to see the velocities with that pellet, too. It’s not that I necessarily expect them to group well, but if a lead pellet can come close to 1000 fps., a sacred number to some, perhaps that will quell some of the criticism.
Of course accuracy is everything, and we will find out shortly after you find out. But I dare say that the next time Feinwerkbau makes an inaccurate air rifle will be the first time.
As for price, if this rifle is at least 85% as good as my San Anselmo-era, plastic-triggered FWB 124, then at $900 it is under-priced. A TX200 MK III might cost less, but my brand-new TX MK III is ever-so slightly less smooth and ever-so slightly less accurate than my (admittedly probably tuned) FWB 124.
If (IF) this rifle is inaccurate, well then. But Feinwerkbau can price it whatever they choose to, and consumers can choose to buy or not to buy it at that price. That is the “free” part of “free market.” Those who insist that all airguns be under $199 should go out and buy a Gamo.
Michael
Let me second this recommendation. The best pellets in my original FWB 124 and TX 200 are the JSB 8.4’s and H&N FTT (4.51mm head size). These would be worth getting if you don’t have them.
Titus,
I completely agree with you on the velocity issue. These days it is easy to build a 1000, 1100, or 1200 FPS gun but the higher velocity, the narrower the pellet selection. At this power level the FWB Sport should handle a wide range of pellets well.
I am hoping the FWB will be very accurate – this will be an interesting series.
Paul in Liberty County
I an glad to see that it has some decent power and is getting a little better in the buzz/vibration category, but still feel that for the price it should be better tuned from the factory. The trigger and barrel lock seem to be right where they need to be for the quality this gun promotes. Now we just have to see how it does in the accuracy review. In any case it is not my cup of tea in the styling dept or anywhere near what I would pay for a gun that needs more work to be acceptable to me.
Buldawg
Just to illustrate the different strokes thing, I think this rifle’s styling is awesome. The new Diana line makes my knees weak. What Crosman is putting out I would not give a plugged nickel for, even if the quality was on par with this.
RR
I am glad that you and others like the styling on this gun as it is what makes anything produced sell is that we have choices in what we like and don’t like. I am just the opposite in that I am not one who like a lot of bling or as is the case with this rifle all the engraving/fish scaling on it. If it does not make it perform better then it is not needed and I will not pay extra for it.
I like the plain Jane look in things so that the extra money spent on design and development can be used to make the item work or perform at its best. Its not that I would not want to own this sporter or a Diana, but I am just not willing to pay for something that does not improve the function or performance of it so the flashy stock and all would have to go and then the price could be much lower.
I have several crosman guns that while they may not look as good as you think this FWB does they do and will outperform it and that is what matters to me. So to each his own and that is what makes the world go round.
I have always been like that and am to old to change now, but do agree that this gun is made very good but the fact that it is so noisy when shot just turned me off from right off the start because a 900 dollar gun regardless of currency exchange rates or any other factor should not exhibit those poor qualities right out of the box.
buldawg
If it can beat what my blaze is one doing, its a ten. I got a dime size 5 shot group, one outside of one hole, at 17yds the first shots with a scope on it. Couldn’t properly test what the breech job had done for it with open sights, but it sure wasn’t doing that. The next groups were fast for sighting in but the second was a 10 shot six in one hole, last was the same with the total in a quarter but 6 in one hole. It was raining and some pellets got dirty, if I were looking for an excuse, lol. But the first group was the best I’ve shot with a springer.
RDNA
Yea my one spring gun and 2 nitro guns out perform this gun in the power department right of the bat and my 40 buck crosman rebrand firepower gun put 7.9 CPs in a dime size hole at 40 yards all day long. in my backyard range of 15 yards it will put hole on top of hole with ease so this FWB has a whole lot more to prove to me that makes it worth any where near 900 dollars.
I just don’t see it being worth that kind of money, but then I am a cheap old geezer any way so if I was going to spend that kind of money for a air gun it would be for a 357 or 45 call big bore that makes some serious power.
So it looks like your barrel chambering has not hurt your accuracy at all and I believe it may have helped it some with the group you are getting, that sound like it is shooting very well just wish you had a chrony to now what if any difference it made on fps.
Buldawg
Yes, need a chrony bad. Gonna get a bunch more pellets to test, 4 for 3 tins hopefully tomorrow.
RDNA
Yea I just ordered another hawke scope and mounts myself to go on either my firepower/ venom nitro gun or another 2240 hipac I have coming. It may go on my 22 cal nitro gun I have not really decided yet.
It will have to wait till after Saturday though as the AAFTA Nationals are going to be here 20 miles away this weekend and I will be there watching the pros shoot it out on a very challenging field target coarse along with 2 to 3 inches of rain due here overnight and thru tomorrow which will make for some interesting techniques and ingenuity on the shooters part to contend with our slippery red clay and dirt ground surfaces that is laid out along a ridge shooting down into a hollow and up the other side with some targets up in trees. The stations are on uneven and root lined ground with a odd angles and obstacles to have to shoot around and will be especially interesting to see what the shooters that usually shoot from a seated position do to keep their britches dry. If it rains like they say it is supposed to it will be very muddy and slippery for sure.
I will post some highlights here a on Saturday evening along with some pics if I can remember how to link them thru photo bucket
I still have to get all my break barrels sighted in as I have been under the weather most of the week and just have not had a chance to get it done, but the scopes are mounted on all of them for now but that could change also.
Will give an update on Saturday.
Buldawg.
That sounds exciting, can’t wait to hear how it goes, hopefully its dry but it will certainly make things challenging if not.
RDNA
It is supposed to start raining late tonight and thru tomorrow and then clear by Friday afternoon or evening and turn from mid 80s on Friday to mid 40s into Saturday AM with a high of 65 and sunny on Saturday. The problem is our red clay does not dry quickly and if the rain quits after sundown on Friday and the temps drop to the 40s the Saturday will be very muddy and slippery miserable conditions to shoot in and deal with so it should indeed be interesting.
I am very interested in seeing the style and type of guns all the different shooters will be using. I know the last time I spoke to the club pres. he said they had already had confirmations of shooter coming from Puerto Rico and Venezuela to compete so I can hardly wait.
buldawg
Wow, I’ll have to keep an eye out for results afterwards, must ne an important event to draw international crowd.
RDNA
Yea I believe it is the finals for the top shooters in the country or maybe even the world, not really sure yet.
I will know more tomorrow, it is still raining some here and all that’s is going on today is the pistol matches and I am more interested in the rifle competitions and those are tomorrow and Sunday.
I will give an update tomorrow evening and Sunday.
Buldawg
RDNA
Check out this link for more info on the nationals and video of range.
Buldawg
Yeah, my blood-pressure has been running 140’s/95 or so for a week now. I’ve been having to take extra meds in the morning to try to get it down and that’s been keeping me on the couch laying down trying to prevent another stroke.
Nice that the competition is so close to you I’d be interested in knowing what you learn.
Later
Reb
Reb
I don’t know what your normal pressure is but the numbers you gave above are right about where mine is all the time only the lower number is generally down around the 80s, but the high number for me is 140 to 150 all the time and I take 2 blood pressure meds a day. if it get down to 120 or less I don’t feel good at all. So mine staying around 140 over 80 is right where I feel good even though it is on the high side of what is considered safe.
I am still not feeling real good but did manage to get my 2 new nitro guns sighted today in the back yard and am going to the nationals tomorrow not matter how I feel and will stay as long as I can. I am going to try to get some pics and info to share. Go to this link for some more info and some video of the field target site and range, just click on the video link at the top of page.
I will give an update tomorrow.
buldawg
Don’t let that diastolic(lower number) get any higher or you’ll be staggering & limping around like me! I cut out all table salt and sodas about 10 years ago, now I’m working on smoking and canned goods. The docs want mine no higher than 135/75. I’ve got an appointment on the 8th and I’m pretty sure I’ll be going on more aggressive meds after that. If I can just hold out that long without having another one.The money thing is really bugging me as well as the nerve damage from all those uh-oh’s & oh-no’s! Both pain and stress are major factors.
Reb
That’s just it if my pressure is down where most docs want it to be I am very lethargic and fatigued, My heart doc is ok with it being in the upper ranges as long as I have no chest pain. I have never used salt on any food other than what is in it already and don’t drink soda, I am a milk and water man only with a beer here and there in that I mean 2 or 3 a month so that’s is not a issue and have started eating better. Luckily all my heart problems were caught before they actually caused any attacks or strokes, but I was a week away from dropping over dead when I had my first heart cath as it was my widowmaker ( LAD ) that was 75 and 85% blocked.
Did you get chance to check out link I sent to the field target range.
Buldawg
BB
As someone wiser than me once said, “you can’t believe everything spraypainted on the overpass.” That is a much more eloquent way of expressing my sentiment of “there is very little fine literature scribbled on the walls of public restrooms.”
It is hard to know what motivates these people to squeal as loudly as they do.
Do you remember when the Walther LGV was released? Some new owner took theirs apart and posted a photo of the compression chamber on a forum, along with a description of how rough the machining was. Skip the judge and the jury, we have an execution to go to! (The criticism was fierce, to put it mildly) Less than two years later, and now a man can’t even swing his dead cat without hitting someone crowing about how the LGV is the best springer ever made.
To further describe this phenomenon, a poster on a forum was bestowing his knowledge about Crosman and their quality. Do you know where this is going? Anyway, the gist was that Crosman’s barrel quality is…uh…caca? And that purchasing any Crosman with a .22 cal barrel is …um…a ‘caca shoot.’ (He had quite a way with words.) I think it was less than a month later, the same person had received his Marauder pistol, and without a hint of irony he stated it was the best airgun he had ever owned.
The chances of me buying the new FWB are about the same as me winning the lottery, but at the same time I don’t feel any need to whine that a fine German spring airgun maker has provided us airgunners with another high end product to choose from.
To put it in the parlance of our times, “haters gonna hate.” Yet, the squealers have already softened their bleating.
Ain’t it funny how it turns into that everytime a gun is released that has some heritage to it.
Do you think it will ever happen again?
And what are they doing beating it up on the Yellow again. What in the world will ever come of this non sense. Tht, Tht, Tht and here we go again!
SL,
As usual, you have managed to sum up what I am saying succinctly. And you have quite a way with words.
I know Edith will be happy to read your comments. She always likes them. I especially liked the one about skipping the trial for the execution.
Yes, I did forget all the hubbub over the LGV as it was launched. Well, that one turned out okay, so let’s see what this one does.
B.B.
SL,
I love the way you talk!
Edith
Ok there is something I noticed this report.
The stock is flat on the bottom.
The synthetic stock Marauders are like that and I guess the wood stock 2nd gen. Marauders also. I don’t got a wood version and can’t remember if the synthetic and wood stock is shaped the same.
That flat surface on the bottom of the stock definitely helps the Marauder to bench rest better especially if you are resting on a flat surface. My Marauder is way more stable than my other guns with the conventional round bottom on the stock and I even seem to be able to hold the gun better if I’m shooting off hand. So I say that’s a plus for the FWB sport.
And man those Falcons are killer little pellets. Everything you have been testing them in is showing a very minimum amount of spread on the velocity. If that don’t add up to accuracy I don’t know what does. And I just made a order and I wanted to get some to try and forgot all about them.
Those are some great velocities out of this thing. They are right where my CFX was. If you cannot produce a group at 25 yards with this thing that will hide under your dime, I will be surprised. I agree with Titus that Exacts and FTTs will likely do real well in this thing.
BB, Doesn’t this rifle call for Silver Jets?
Derrick,
I will add them.
B.B.
These used to be my primary pellet in the 70’s & 80’s. I don’t think they’re even made any more, and if not, I wouldn’t bother testing them. People who buy this rifle will want recommendations for readily available pellets.
Feinwerk,
I actually tested vintage Silver Jets against modern premium pellets here:
/blog/2010/09/a-shrine-built-for-a-feinwerkbau-124-part-8/
B.B.
I think I still have several unused boxes of silver jets and silver bears that I haven’t had the heart to throw away.
Hope you know I was kidding about the Silver Jets. I’m quite aware that pellets have gotten better since 1989…
Or 1972. I remember them in the ARH catalog that I had when I was a kid.
I believe I also remember the Eun Jin design was in that catalog but it was under a different name.
If I remember correctly, the silver jets were outperformed by several other pellets in the last fwb 124 accuracy test that B.B. completed. Think it was an fwb 124 a guy in roanoke loaned B.B. to tune.
Be interesting to see how silver jets perform in the new fwb sport but the search for silver jet pellets is already at a fever pitch.
kevin
Heh heh… I have some old boxes of silver aces too. The jets and aces were tops back then. Even got some in .20 for the ol’ R1.
B.B.,
We’re blessed. We live in an era when there are many quality air rifles, readily available and at different price points with different features. The same is true for pellets, scopes and accessories, too. We’re fortunate to add the new FWB to that list.
RB
RB,
That’s a good way to look at it.
B.B.
Tom, first of all, let me thank you for the great review you did on the Walther LGV Ultra. I have bought a number of air rifles/pistols based on these reviews with total satisfaction. I purchased the Ultra in 22.cal. I will tell you this. Your review of that rifle was dead on. Next to my Santa Rosa R7 with a Vortek kit, tuned by Tom Gore. (the same rifle he used to develop the kit) the LGV is without a doubt the nicest air rifle I have ever shot. I cannot say enough about it.
The LGV also had to wade through the Judge Roy Bean Court system.(Let’ give him a fair trial and then Hang em). Well, they never did hang the LGV. So I knew the amount of hate for the FWB when it was first announced, meant that this was going to be a fine air rifle. Kudos to the air-gunners that refused to listen to the garbage and went forward with purchasing the rifle. Obviously they were smarter than the average bear.
Once again, thank you for your review of the LGV. You reported, I listened, I am a very happy camper. I own one very fine German engineered Springer.
Dave,
Thank you for that feedback. That is why I write like I do — so people will know what they are getting.
I still have my LGV Challenger and I still enjoy it, as well.
B.B.
ANybody know WHY the last 2 newly produced spring rifles are break barrels (Walther LGM and this FWB) and not under-levers or side-cockers?
Almost 90% of all springers are break barrels. They cost less, have less parts and generally work very well. By the way, an underlever version of Walther’s LGV exists, it is the model LGU.
Mel,
Thanks, so basically the a break barrel air rifles have the lowest production cost of the three, and thus the profit margins can be bigger.
I would not say it in such a negative way. From a technical point of view, break barrel airguns have a lot going for: The barrel double acts as cocking lever, and automatically opens the breech when operated. Underlevers and side lever springers need more parts, and don’t offer real advantages unless you enter really high class FT airguns, or want to mount a very long scope.
What a delightful discusstion…My eyes glance at the stunning TX200 which now seems available at a throw away price……..Just wish it were like, say 2 pounds lighter..Lol ! Is this new air rifle on the price ploy of a Rolex watch..high price establishes quality ?
Pete
…
Hello B.B.,
I went to the gun emporium shopping for pellets, but instead brought home a .22 BSA Ultra Multishot. I was expecting it to be rated to put out at least 12-ft/lbs of energy or perhaps a maximum of 16-ft/lbs with its short sub-12-inch barrel, but the BSA label on the cardboard box reads 376 ms! Converted to feet per second, that is 1233.59 fps—which translates to 40 ft/lbs with an 11.9 grain Hobby pellet. It seems too good to be true. Or is 40 ft/lbs possible from a 12-inch barreled PCP?
Regards,
Ron
Ron,
Be interesting to see what the chronograph thinks.
B.B.
Here are the facts.
At $900, it offers:
–non-figured Beech wood
–ambi configuation
–machine checkering, as opposed to the hand-cut on the old Deluxes
–the same pitiful excuse for a scope stop
–no more power than my two old 124s
–certainly, no more accuracy than my two old 124s, which are dead-nuts
–weird ‘ears’ on the breech block that aren’t going away if you scope it (as most will, despite the pitiful excuse for a scope stop)
— non-interchangeable ft. sight element
— no front or rear swivel , a step backward from the old Dlx.
— and a ‘meh’, nothing-new-here powerplant that BUZZES
All at $900 (NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS).
These are just the FACTS. When did the recognition of objective reality became hate, or wanting the thing to fail? There were high expectations, because of the long wait, because its $900, because its a F-E-I-N-W-E-R-K-B-A-U. And all of the FACTS contraindicate the possibility of those expectations being met. And clear-eyed folks are (quite naturally) dissapointed so far because the FACTS point toward these expectations having no possibility of being met.
The real question is why folks are going out of their way to make excuses and bend over backward to cut FWB slack on this marginal effort. Who are these appeasing Neville Chamberlains?
At 900$ ist offers
– a beautiful stock, the nicest recently made non-custom airgun stock I know of
– ambi configuration, which is a good thing (I’m left handed, my girlfriend is right handed…we both wanna shoot!)
– machine checkering, because in 2014 you won’t find any Eurpean gunmaker who will hand cut this checkering for less then several hundred €s
– No problems with scope stop at the given power level
– No more power than your 124, or a 170$ magnum springer, because there is no need for it
– Dead-nut accuracy, as you stated…what do you want? Deader nutterer accuracy?
– really good iron sights that are not just made to be replaced by a scope. Yes, this rifle is meant to be used with iron sights, as the stock implies, too.
– A front sight that can alsways be removed and replaced with target sights, or whatever you want
– No front or rear swivel, as no modern airgun has
– A nothing-new-here powerplant, because springers didn’t change much in the past 40 years. And yes, BBs gun buzzes, which can also happen with a Weihrauch.
All at 900$, which very few people will spend on an airgun. So what?
Neville!!! So good to see you again!
Your post reproves my point — (thanks!) — that there are apologists who will defend this thing regardless.
You may be OK with marginal-for-price value. Good on you. Most aren’t. Smart on them.
You know, a look at the Pyramydair webpage reveals about 175 spring-powered airguns to choose from. And almost all of them are tailored to give you the most power & accuracy for the lowest amount of money. The airguns got rid of whistles & bells such as intricate woodwork, all-metal rear sights etc. Instead, manufacturers try as hard as they can to put as many useful (or perceivedly useful) features into the airguns, while leaving little place for aesthetics. I, for my part, would have been disappointed to see another soul-less plastic-stock 245$ springer + scope combo. Cmon, we got enough of those.
You know, a 10$ Mora knife is everything you need for a camping trip. But Isn’t it nice to know that there are knifemakers who create beautifully forged knives, and find a small audience to them to for 300$?
I remember when a poster was boasting about the 460 about 5 years ago when then the cost was almost $600.00. Yet it had a Beech Stock, machine checkering. He also had problems with the latch, the lever and finally had to remove the front sight because he could not stand the looks of it. He is of the magnititis crowd that feels any rifle that is not magmum level is a inferior air rifle. His jealousy of the new FWB is also vivid on the the forum.
Mel, you mentioned that you have had plenty of experience with forums to understand what goes on. A lot of the bashing of the FWB comes from somewhere else other than the gun. I really believe jealousy is a appropriate word. I certainly do not believe that FWB has to apologize to anyone for this fine rifle. No one needs to defend the FWB. The quality speaks for itself and so does the name. I doubt there is any air rifle in history that is perfect nor do I believe there ever will be.
Oh! Ya got me!!!
–Except I never, ever ‘boasted’ about my 460…
…never had a problem with the latch or lever (although the ft. sight WAS ugly, and DID get replaced)….
…and it cost me all of $350 (you do know that 1/3RD THE PRICE makes beech and machine checkering more aceptable – right?).
–Hardly subject to magnumitis. Of my 17 springers, I own exactly two “magnums”.
–And you’re confusing “jealousy” with “not being an Apple-style Sycophant Fanboy”.
So. Other than getting ALL your facts wrong — Dead On, Binky!
I get Mel’s entrenchment — he actually spent 9 Benji’s on one of these pieces of damp toast.
Why you insist on defending this pound puppy is harder to glean.
Steve/Mel,
It’s hard to tell if you two are trading friendly barbs or if this is an unfriendly exchange. We want everyone on this blog to be given an equal chance to voice their opinion without someone else suggesting that those who disagree with them are incapable of making good decisions or telling them that their reasons/feelings are invalid (or making unfriendly/unsavory comments).
Edith
Steve,
I don’t own an FWB Sport. In fact, my only spring rifle is a Slavia 631, which is a delightful plain-Jane rifle that would probalby sell in the 200-250$ range if it was available in the USA nowadays, and fits my budget much better than a 900$ rifle 😀
But please understand that not everybody out there always needs to get the best value for his money. There are things like Porsche cars and Swiss watches and Swarovski binoculars. The people who buy these products are not dumb, they are just willing to spend more money on a product than necessary, to get something we can consider a high-end or maybe a luxury product.
For ~$600, I obtained a moderate size tube of hard rubber, glazed with uroushi lacquer (a lacquer made from the same compound that causes a rash by poison ivy/etc.). It has an 18K gold nib.
Yes — I’m talking about a PEN.
And for $600 I got something that required me to put a bead of clear nail polish around where the brass threaded part came out of the section (the part with the nib that you put your fingers on) because ink was back flowing and seeping out onto my fingers.
With the nail polish in place, I now have the opposite problem — the section tends to run dry with a reservoir full of ink…
So, while I don’t get enough use from airguns to justify $900 for this one TO ME… Someone who admires such might consider it a fair price.
Your both dead on, one likes it one dislikes it, both for the exact same reasons. That alone means this gun will sell, some will eventually cave to try it just for all the debate, and love it, and some love it and will pay for it then to feel like SteveinMN does now. I think we’ll be hearing about this one down the line like the lgv now.
Mel,
Yes, a Weihrauch also buzz but it is a few hundred dollar less. The HW77 also has excellent sights and I bet it is easier to shot accurately than this FWB break-barrel, if not more accurate.
My HW50s does not buzz even a little bit.
Steve..You nailed it..! Good for you !
Pete
You and Mel are BOTH exactly right, and completely opposite in your perspective. That’s why there’s so much BUZZ, about the gun, pun intended, but I do agree your right that your perspective shouldn’t be called preemptive hate, that’s just the nature of debating two extremes in thought.
SteveInMN,
Didn’t B.B. once said that to build up a reputation of quality takes a long time, and once you have it, you can destroy that reputation fairly quickly. FWB is already doing this, even before this breakbarrel air rifle, go look at the craftsmanship of their current P700 and compare it to the old P70 or 603, 602.
SteveinMN, you nailed it. Indeed. May i add, this pricing is a joke.
Pete
BB
I own a FWB 300s and it is absolutely the best airgun I have ever shot! I have a photo of the new Sport as my wallpaper and I drool over it whenever I use my pc! I have the bad feeling that I will go into the massive expense of procuring one.
Of course I have the common gripe about the buzzing and price. I am sure the accuracy will be spot on. While I doubt we can do anything significant about the price, I think Pyramyd AIR can do something about the buzzing by offering a tune option – like the 10 for 10?
They might be able to tune the new Sport — the question is — will yours need it as much as mine?
I would first buy the gun and break it in befor making a decision like that.
B.B.
BB
That was me. I forgot to enter my name.
I always prefer one postage. Buying a gun then posting to a tuner always dampens my enthusiasm about a purchase. More movement increases the chances for damage.
Ton,
I do understand your concerns. Let me finish the test and also read what others are saying about the rifle. Something might emerge from all of this.
B.B.
B.B.,
The other day you said you respond well to begging. Well, I am desperately begging you to add the JSB 8.44 grain pellets to this rifles test. I have had such excellent results with this pellet in my LGV, R9 and TX200 and I believe we would see the same results with this gun.
Since you have done the velocity test it’s ok if you skip that for now for the FWB Sporter but please add this pellet to the accuracy test. I believe you’ll be very surprised and pleased.
Thank you.
G&G
G&G,
When you read about me responding to begging, I was saying that I would test the JSB 8.4-grain pellets.
B.B.
Fascinating. Where has the blog been mentioned where it is not ordinarily since the blog is very far-reaching? Disturbing to hear that the buzz might never go away on its own. If it were to smooth out over time as was mentioned, that would still be pushing it for a high-quality rifle, but a perpetual buzz is really not okay. Interesting about the detente. The locking pin on my IZH 61 seems to be getting loose after 100,000 shots. Do locking mechanisms wear out over time?
B.B., no fair with Jerry Miculek as a speed shooter. I guess there really is no beating him. With 8 shots in 1 second, he barely noses out our Beretta shooter with 19 shots in 2.82 seconds. AND Miculek does it with a revolver with his 10 pound trigger. Extraordinary. And that is some great footage of Ed McGivern.
Matt61
Squashed spring, broken spring, rounded catch or gunk not letting it extend out all the way. Maybe how it could wear out.
In the few marketing courses I took before switching from business to engineering, the accepted strategy for a new product was to price it as high as traffic would bear – get the people who had to have the product first before anyone else and were willing to spend big bucks for the privilege and distinction of owning a sought after product. When the initial sales spurt slowed down and the distinction of owning a rare item dissipated, you as the manufacturer, started marketing to the middle market or mainstream stores (read chain stores) who would buy in bulk and obtain a more favorable wholesale price. They would pass that savings on to the general public.
Will that happen with this FWB? Perhaps but only time will tell. It sure is shaping up to be a super rifle and one that one day, at least as far as I’m concerned, will be worth collecting.
Fred DPRoNJ
B.B.
That’s strange and purely coincidental on my part. I had absolutely no recollection of that. But it makes me happy.
G&G
B.B.,
Sorry, my last comment should have been posted as a response to your comment to me.
G&G
It would not surprise me if the issue of the “Buzz” is taken care of as production goes on. A new product can have some “Bugs” at first.
Mike
Mike
Getting rid of the buzz is what the research and development departments job 1 is all about, I do understand that some of the first production run can slip thru without all the required steps in assembly being completed as the engineers designed the line to run, but also in the first production run the random test samples should be increased to every second or third gun to be hand tested before being shipped for sale. So the fact that this gun that BB received does buzz so much either means that it was one of the untested guns from the first production run, there is no quality control testing of the first production run or this was determined in research and development to not be a significant issue to require any further testing or investment in time or man power to correct. Which to me clearly suggest that the company believes that the issue will resolve itself in a short enough time frame as to not deter future buyers from spending there hard earned money on a gun that out of the box does not seem to be up to the majority of the targeted audiences believed standard associated with the FWB name.
I know first hand from working in research and development for Harley-Davidson motorcycle company that each and every one of the motorcycles that they sell are tested in a dynamometer roller test booth that a live person is actually sitting on the bike and riding it thru all the gears and operating all the controls for three to four miles to insure that everything is working as it was designed to and if it does not pass its test it is pushed into the hospital area for a technician to repair whatever is not operating properly and then be retested until it is able to pass this road test inspection.
So if this type of testing is not being done on every gun that FWB manufactures before leaving the factory then they are resting on their laurels and known reputation to get this gun to the hands of would be buyers without proper testing being done and in such doing their company and more importantly the consumers a very big disservice in releasing this product into the market place prematurely.
It is this reason that I will not even consider spending my money on a product that in my opinion is not ready to be sold to the public at this time.
buldawg
The fact this gun is garnering so much passion speaks volumes. I believe Feinwerbau has developed an almost mythic name, and people are expecting the myth to perform. I have never owned a Feinwerbau, and I’m not sure I want to spend $900.00 on a spring piston gun of any brand name. Lets let BB finish the testing and evaluation before coming to conclusions.
Ciao
Titus
Titus Groan,
Spend $900 on a FWB 601 or 602 (603 if you can buy one for $900); you will not be sorry and that mythic FWB name is still in those air rifles.
B.B,
Speaking of pellets. How are they made, but casting or machining?
Pretty sure they are stamped from a die.
Gunfun
Check out this link for more info on the nationals and video of the range and sight in area.
Buldawg
buldawg
Nice place. I really like the field target course.
Did the rain come and go and dry up any?
Gunfun
Yep rain has come and gone and it getting cold out, but is supposed to be in the low 50 in the AM and up to the low 70s by noon, so it should be a perfect day and I will be there at 9 am when the sighting starts and then the rifle matches begin at about 10 am and go till 5 pm. then they are having more matches on Sunday also so I think they had a much bigger turn out than expected.
I just hope I can hold out for all day Saturday and maybe some of Sunday I am going to do the best I can and bring plenty of water and snacks because there are no concessions there that I know of , they may have brought some in which would be nice.
I will give you all a full account of the action tomorrow evening.
Buldawg
buldawg
I know you mentioned the clay is a problem when it gets wet. That’s why I was wondering about the rain.
Hopefully it will be dry enough to get around. But maybe a little wet to throw in that extra little challenge like you were saying.
Gunfun
it turned out to be not all that bad and I had a great time but got wore out so that I could not go back Sunday. Check your email as I sent full account and bunch of pics also.
Buldawg
buldawg
I checked out the pictures.
It looks like it was a good time.
Did you ask how much money they have tied up in them guns.
And I see they had the side wheels taped and some even had the elevation turret taped.
Any of them reveal a manic pellet that they liked?
Suppose to be ” magic ” pellet.
Gunfun
I was just wondering if you got all the pics, I tried to send them all in one email but it was to bug so I had to break them up and I think it was in 5 or 6 emails with like 35 pics total so I just thought I would ask if you got that many pics.
I am wondering what gun would be best for there now I know I can’t use my hatsan because it is to high of FPE. its down to the hipac or a springer or down the road my 60c with a 177 barrel on it. I am just going to try the hipac you sent me and my 177 nitro springer at first and see how they doo, but first I got to build a gun and equipment tote to make it easier to move from lane to lane.
The friend Loren I met that I followed thru the coarse and was telling me a lot of the in and out for shooting in the matches gave me a bipod free to use and said he has an old 1400 and a benji pumper that he tried to build and messed up the valve in it and said if I want them I can come and get them so I am going to get with him and see what they are like and may be able to salvage them into nice little plinkers or at least have spare parts for my 1400.
I am also thinking about mounting a scope on my 1400 and trying it out because I can vary the power for the distance I am shooting at. juast a thought.
got to get to bed now because I got whole lot of paper work to get done for disability to hopefully get approved and get some benefits started.
Buldawg
GUnfun
No I did not ask how much money some of them had tied up ion their guns but I assure you it is in the 4 figures and up. Yea in the open class you can adjust your windage and elevation as well as focus so that is why you see the big plastic wheels on the turrets with fine markings and they had to use it a lot Saturday afternoon as it was windy and gusty up in to the 25 mph at times most that I talked to were using JSB 8.44s or H&N trophys in the 8,4 gr range also there was not a lot using anything over 10gr.
I know one of the Atlanta airgunners had about 6 grand in his steyr and a March scope.
I just wished I had known that there was going to be an auction and the end of shooting on Saturday as they auctioned off some nice guns and the 177 wood stock Mrod went for 350.00, the hw 97 went for 460.00 and a 54 with a beautiful walnut stock that Tyler from PA said was one of a kind went for only 450.00.
I just wished I had more money as all the sales were cash only. I would have went back today but my legs were cramping so bad from all the walking up and down the hills that all I could do today was lay on the couch and watch tv. I wish you could have been there as it was way cool. I told you about most of the guys having a either a ty-wrap or small rod sticking about 5 inches off the side of the barrels with a string or small feather to give them a wind direction and speed indicator which I thought was very cool and ingenious.
Buldawg
buldawg
Yep I have seen the tape used before.
We did that by our flying stations with the RC airplanes. But the problem with that is the wind could be different at different distances.
My dad always told me to watch the leaves on the trees or the grass blowing the whole distance of the shot.
And it looks like most of the shots were in the woods. So no open ground where the wind could play a problem. Well maybe there was some stations that were more open than others. Either way that’s the stuff that makes a person a better shooter.
buldawg
I did get all the pictures.
Joe,
Pellets are swaged. That’s a process in which lead is forced into a die by mechanical pressure. I have written about it here:
/blog/2013/08/swaged-bullets-part-2/
B.B.
BB
Are you sure about all pellets being made that way.
I thought the Crosman pellets are made from a piece of lead that is in a coil and bigger than the pellet diameter. They feed the lead through the die as it stamps.
Maybe I’m wrong but I know I saw something of the sort on TV a while back. It didn’t show a lot of the process but I did catch something of what I described. My machine shop eye’s pick up on that stuff you know. 🙂
But again maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s one of them trade secrets that ain’t suppose to get exsposed.
GF1,
I have watched Crosman pellets being made several times at the factory. They start with lead wire which is cut into short sections called preforms. They are then fed into a large plate, called a die, where immense force squeezes them into shape. That is called swaging.
B.B.
BB
Ok that’s exactly what I’m talking about. I just wasn’t calling it swaging.
The power and trigger info you provided are promising. I’m encouraged Tom, but as one of the critics on the guns price; I can only hope the cost goes down eventually.
Russ,
I hope it does, too. I can’t afford one any more than anyone else. I would like to own one if it proves as accurate as I suspect it is, but I can’t be spending this kind of money.
B.B.
With all of the airguns capable of delivering supersonic pellets I have wondered about stability of pellets that are designed to fly accurately at subsonic speeds.
I know that spinning projectiles can go unstable and tumble but I assumed – wrongly – that they would rotate on axis as long as they were properly balanced and not deformed.
Last night I came across a video ( Weihrauch HW100 T Accuracy Review – Ted’s HoldOver ) that showed pellets wobbling and corkscrewing in flight!!! That the pellets were grouping well at one range seems to be very misleading – a couple of yards forward or back would put the group of impacts in a different location on the spiral. Effectively, relative to the line-of-sight and considering the radius of the spiral, the impact area would be substantially larger than the group size.
It would be interesting to see videos of our favorite pellets in flight.
Feinwerkbau might have designed the Sport’s 850-875 fps to hit a sweet spot for “standard” pellets.
… just my thoughts
Vana2
I get that a lot of people don’t get it and that’s a good thing, this is not a mass market item.
While most people now just glance at a cell phone, a wrist watch is still a fine example. A $40.00 Timex will keep you on track to your destination, but an $800.00 Movado ensures people will wait for you to arrive. Yes, they both tell time and the Movado is more accurate but not 20 more times like the price may suggest. A gold nugget Rolex on the other hand is conspicuous consumption, which this is not. (Padrino, voglio dire no disrespet da questo esempio)
These comparisons could go on forever, ie: a Bic and a Montblanc, a Ford and a Volvo…
The real question is not if it is worthy of the price but the name, and for me also if it beats its age old nemesis the R1.
I trust that the B.B. will let us know.
Hi B.B. As 3 years has passed since your review, I thought that I would provide brief feedback on the 19 Joule Sport that I purchased and tested in the latter part of 2017.
In my opinion the Sport is an outstanding air gun. It is by far the best break barrel air rifle on the market today with no other break barrel coming close to it in respect to build quality and accuracy. The firing cycle is very smooth with no spring “twang” whatsoever.
The Sport really is in a league of its own.
Cheers. Rick.
Rick,
Thanks for the update. I’m glad there is a good version of this rifle.
B.B.