Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo
Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo

This report covers:

• What is it?
• The rifle
• Trigger and safety
• What to make of this airgun

Today, we’ll start looking at the Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo. I have to admit, this is a rather radical departure for me. I’m not fond of black rifles of any kind, yet there’s something about this one that draws me in. This rifle is made for kids! At least that’s what the styling, name and box graphics seem to convey.

What is it?
The rifle is a stylistic black rifle (based on the M16 platform). It’s stylistic because no black rifle has a hole in the forearm like this one. And the barrel leaves the upper handguard differently than an M16 barrel. And the sights are different. And so on. But the object is to appeal to those who like the black rifle look, and I think they did that.

This is a multi-pump pneumatic rifle that shoots lead pellets in a single-shot mode or steel BBs from a reservoir as a repeater. In that respect, it has much in common with a Daisy 880. The steel barrel is rifled, and the rifle operates with anywhere from 2 to 10 pumps. The advertised top velocity is 675 f.p.s. with steel BBs, but I’ll check that for you, of course. Before anyone asks me — yes, I’ll test this rifle with .177 round lead balls! The bore is large enough that there’s no danger of jamming, so why not?

The rifle
The rifle has a lot of plastic on the outside, as you would expect in this price range, but the barrel’s sheathed in a rolled sheet steel jacket. The underlever for pumping is the reason the hole’s in the forearm.

The underlever is held in place by a spring-loaded detent. It’s tight against the rifle until you really pull down like you mean it.

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo pump extended

The hole in the forearm is the handle for the underlever. Pull down hard to release it.

The butt appears to be adjustable, but it isn’t. It’s a one-piece molded plastic part. And the buttplate is solid with no trap doors for storage.

The sights are both fiberoptic, and they appear to be pretty bright. The rear sight adjusts for both windage and elevation. Though this came as a combo with a scope included, these sights are nice enough that I will first test them before I mount the scope.

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo rear sight
The rear sight slides up the ramp for elevation. A spring-loaded button that can’t be seen here locks it in place. The notch is held on by a screw and slides from side to side when it’s loosened.

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo front sight
The front sight is a fiberoptic bead on a tall ramp.

This rifle weighs 4.41 lbs. The overall length is 39.37 inchesm and the length of pull is close enough to 14.5 inches that I’ll call it that. So, it’s a lightweight rifle that still fits an adult. In fact, young shooters may find the buttstock a bit too long. Since it’s hollow plastic, there’s no easy way to shorten it.

This rifle has a bolt action. The bolt handle, which withdraws the bolt for loading and also cocks the rifle, is located on the right side of the receiver. That’s the only thing on the gun that’s not entirely ambidextrous. The bolt features a cover that slides with it to close the loading trough to dirt.

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo bolt
The bolt handle is on the right side of the receiver. The bolt has a sliding cover to keep the action clean!

I did notice that the few pellets I loaded just to see how the gun works were difficult to load. The loading port is a little narrow, and I lose control of the pellet before it reaches the loading trough. Ninety percent of the time, the pellets flipped around backwards on me during loading. I’ll look at that more closely during the velocity test in Part 2.

This combo also comes with a 4X15 scope and 2-piece mounts. Naturally, I’ll be testing it for accuracy with the scope as well as with the open sights.

Trigger and safety
The trigger is two stages with a heavy second stage that I’ll measure for you in Part 2. The safety is a strange one. It’s a combination sliding switch located under the front of the triggerguard, and an extension that intrudes into the triggerguard area when the safety is on. Push forward on the extension, and you can take the safety off. To put it on, you have to use the sliding switch. When the safety’s off and the rifle’s ready to fire, a red flag appears in a window on the left front of the triggerguard.

The beauty of this safety is that it can be applied and taken off by the trigger finger alone. It’s stiff when new, but it’s already wearing-in on the test rifle. Best of all, this is a 100 percent manual safety! You’re in charge of it — not a committee of corporate lawyers in the front office!

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo safety
The safety is a sliding switch located under the front of the triggerguard. Slide it back to make the rifle safe. Notice the door in the upper left of this picture. That’s where the steel BBs go, and the reservoir holds up to 50 of them.

What to make of this airgun
Okay, Black Ops is a new brand to me. What do I think of the Junior Sniper rifle so far? Well, the dimensions are too large for a youth rifle, so this airgun is meant for at least young adults. If you like black rifle styling, this one may appeal to you.

I still need to test both power and accuracy; but if the gun tests out, you’re getting a lot of airgun for the price. We shall see.

234 thoughts on “Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo: Part 1

  1. Interesting looking rifle!
    Your comment about the loading port has me a bit worried – not looking good.
    I already have enough problems with loading .177 pellets in some of my springers (where there is no problem with accessing the barrel)…


    • The loading port has me concerned also. I have the Daisy 880 and it almost impossible for me to load pellets in it. Works fine for BBs though. I have a screwy looking break barrel pellet rifle. Some of you may remember it. It is the Marksman 1790. Years ago I lost the rear sight off it, just recently put a scope on it and that thing is a fun plinker. Easy to cock and certainly will do the number on coke cans. So I will not judge this gun till BB runs his full tests. Black plastic is a turn off, but as a new air gunner sure have a bunch of black plastic pistols. Just wrote a review on a Webley Alecto that has not been accepted yet. Black plastic and lots of bucks for me, but it looks like the overall value will be there. Have fun 🙂


      • I had a buddy that bought a brand new Marksman in 2000 to enjoy plinking and target shooting alongside me and my Slavia 618. My first shot with it nailed a shootnsee paster from 30 yds. I loved both of those guns and have my eye out for one all the time. My dad pulled a maksman and a RedRyder outta one of his rental properties both in 2 pieces I promptly inserted a 4″ decking screw to check it and will be working on getting it from him until it happens. I wound up with the RedRyder
        Hope it’s as accurate as the 2 that introduced me to it!
        Sometimes plastic guns are accurate.
        Reb


  2. Since the cheek piece, buttpad and LOP aren’t adjustable I can’t understand the stock design. It’s not functional and it’s hideous.

    If the airgun consumers that like black guns are driving the market and they embrace a gun that looks like this I’ll be sitting in the back of the bus.

    Happy Friday.

    Kevin



  3. I wondered if Id ever see the black ops name come through these halls, the box store has had a huge super black gun sniper(barrett) looking breakbarrel for some time, and I like J. above, wonder if this company has a recognized parent company or if its just a noobie in the market, I figured it must to get straight onto the wally shelves. The break barrel I’ve seen looks like an airsoft gun, which blackops has been for a long time putting airport on the box store shelves, but could’ve toned it down a bit and gone for a more mature demographic, especially with a claimed 1200 fps on the breakbarrel, and still kept with the tacticool… overblown zombie apocalypse sniper rifles won’t stand the sands of real airgunning time.


  4. If when I was handed that when I was 11years old instead of the Diana 23 I did get, I’d have been twice as excited, however, 37 years on, would I have still been a keen airgunner?
    I doubt it.
    Ditto the Red Ryder and any number of tinplate Americana, where are those people now?….firing full bore firearms I would guess on the most part……and still remembering airguns as toy like tat.
    It’s a shame Diana don’t import their junior guns into the states


    • Dom
      It’s still pretty much that way here in my part of east coast US. A Marlin 22lr. model 60 $160 is competition for any adult air gun. But a $24 Daisy Red Ryder for a youth no problem.


      • I’m always intrigued as to what cultural differences have made airgunning an established sport here and an emerging one here.
        It’s not purely recent firearms restrictions because there were very few until the 70’s.
        But going back to say 1950 a farmer would have a 12 bore side by side and a BSA or Webley air rifle….rather than a 22lr.
        I’m guessing it’s down to a combination of factors
        1) Overall wealth, airguns have always been cheap to use, even when a 22lr may have been as cheap to buy
        2) The game we shoot is small
        3) The proportion of the population at war was always vastly higher than the US (and, boy, we liked a good war) perhaps those guys had seen a gut full of centre fire on returning.
        4) Space, we all live cheek by jowel here, even if I could have an M16, I can’t think of many places I could shoot it without killing a dog walker or hiker
        5) Proximity and exposure to a greater variety of European airguns
        6) Poaching…a national pastime during the wars and austere rationing 50’s
        People did do gallery shooting, a lot of it in pubs…where the patrons often had to crouch as they went to the bar.
        There has always been centre fire clubs and afficionado’s just not to the level as over the pond


        • Based on a few friends I have in the USA, airguns are seen there as just toys for kids, and any serious adult shooter would have a real firearm. Very few “visionaries” see airsoft and airgun replicas as a means for training. In fact some have this same feeling about .22 LR guns. I think the US is the only place on earth where a .22LR is “just a trainer”!
          Here in Brazil, given the significant restrictions we have for firearms in general (I have a few, but the paperwork is insane!), adult shooters are going for serious airguns as a means to keep their sport. Some of them were less than excited about airguns in general until they meet other shooters in the gun club, and share information and knowledge, and them discover how great the sport can be. Some will never look back to firearms!
          Now, tomorrow, I will have the immense pleasure of introducing a new youngster to shooting. I was contacted by a father whose kid is probably a gamer and is interested in guns. He wants his kid to start by having “the right start”, in his own words. Now, can you guys think of any better place to start a kid in the shooting sports than airguns? And, by showing all the great stuff that the top-of-the-line airguns represent, don’t you think there is a great chance that this kid will grow up as a serious airgunner?
          All it takes, in my opinion, is someone to educate them…
          (By the way, Thanks, Tom & Edith for doing just that for us!)



            • You can find mostly Hatsans and Gamos around here, but there a few Brazilian manufacturers as well, CBC (Magtech) and Rossi in special. The cost is waaaaaay higher than US prices due to the heavy taxes we pay for firearms in general (and airguns fall in the same tax category).
              I used a Crosman M4-177 for the kid’s shooting this morning (my son’s rifle) and a FN-FAL airsoft.


        • Dom
          In the US gun manufactures out number airgun manufactures. And while 300 million people may know who Daisy and Crosman are, I can’t say the same for Daystate or Wiehrauch and other European airguns. Big box stores and sports stores are starting to expose adult airguns but costumers are all alone when choosing what gun to buy, the US needs more stores like the ones you have Dom in the UK like Sandwell Field Sports where the personnel are educated in airguns.


          • Umm, you got that right!!! You want imagine the number of people I’ve seen ( and been so glad to educate ) in the box store trying to pick out a first gun for every different reason, needing very different guns and staring blankly at the shelves full of numbers and little symbols that really don’t mean crap if you haven’t already been familiarized with the things they tell you. Some wanted to hunt, target, small pest, leave their elderly mother with a “shoot your eye out” deterrent pistole, everything, and of 2 persons for each of those types of shooting not one was aware of how any of them worked and that is great! There are a lot of brandy new airgunners! But we need to make sure they don’t get lost down the idiot creek of marketing and misinformation… TOM.. or somebody should make a nonprofit style pamphlet of the “how to pick an airgun” that also will out out the pyramyd name that can be left in a stack at the box stores, etc, and would do IMMENSE amounts of good.


    • I am right here! Own about a dozen Red Ryder’s! Love em! I am 48.
      About a half dozen friends love em too! We get together pretty often to punch paper at 5m in my basement, listen to music, and enjoy a few adult beverages.

      This particular rifle does not appeal to me but I am thankful there is a company that makes it. It’s nice to have a variety of air guns to choose from. it’s all about what makes it fun, and for some it’s just looks.


  5. Black ops junior sniper, and, if I’m not mistaken, the big brother the black ops tactical sniper. I’ve never held one or shot one but the name puts a very specific image into my head.

    This gun is designed to look tacticool. It’s not designed to appeal to any serious shooter. The target audience is the couch commando who never really goes outside but plays a lot of shooters. They walk past this gun in the local Wal-Mart, and visions start dancing in their heads of going Rambo on the local squirrel population. They buy it, take it home, and put exactly seven shots through it, get tired of pumping it, and retire it to the back of their closet, next to their tactical tanto sword they bought for 17.99 for when the zombies walk the earth. Two months later they hear a rat in the attic and think of the gun but since they can’t find the bbs they bought with it they forget about it again. 4 years later while cleaning out the closet they decide to give it to their 12 year old nephew, who is excited and then cries when mom finds it and throws it out because she doesn’t want him to shoot his eye out. Besides playing with guns, why that’s a set up to raising the next school shooter.
    Keeping that in mind, the thing is probably not designed to last, or to shoot very accurately.

    But who knows? Maybe this is the gun to sweep the 880 off the market.


    • Tim,

      Thatb was ther best explanation of the progression of a tacticool airgunner’s life as I have ever read! I laughed right along with you. Apparently I am not the only person who feels this way. I may be a dinosaur, but I am part of a herd.

      B.B.


      • I’m not a dinosaur just yet, and I like modern innovations in guns. I like EBRs (though I don’t actually have one yet), and I love pistol grips. A lot of that stuff is just practical, or so it seems to me. But I’m not sure why everything these days has to be “Tactical”, or “Black Ops”, or “Spec Ops”, or whatever. It’s gotten to the point that I tend to discount anything marketed that way as nothing but a gimmick, be it for my knives, guns, air guns, or whatever else.

        It’s unfortunate that so many companies seize on the fact that people will buy stuff with the right code words and run with it. I actually hope that this gun is something decent. Besides the couch commandos, there will be parents buying this for their kids because they know their kids will like this more than the crosman 760 sitting on the shelf next to it. I hope that this thing actually is a decent air gun that will keep a kid happy and maybe lead him into more and greater things instead of turning him off of guns/airguns forever. I’m just jaded now and see anything marketed this way as junk.

        But it’s like they say, Tactical is like boobs, you can sell anything with it. (Is that ok to say on here?)



        • Bert,

          What a good question! I am reviewing this airgun because my taste is not shared by everyone. It doesn’t matter if I like it or not. It only matters how it performs.

          I know some people feel they should only review the things they like and pan everything else, but I don’t operate that way. I will review them all and try to keep my feelings at bay.

          However, every once in awhile, I will express an opinion.

          Thanks for asking this. I think a lot of new readers probably wondered the same thing.

          B.B.


          • As part of the herd I have been an airgunner for a very long time.

            Bad experiences with the early Co2s has given me a strong aversion to plastic and pot-metal.
            I prefer traditional guns made of steel and wood but would just comment on “how it looks”…

            I have a Hammerli AR20 PCP that has “star-wars” styling complete with a plastic skeleton stock (call it “synthetic” if you like – it’s still plastic).

            It’s the ugliest rifle I own but man does it shoot!!! 10-shot half inch groups a 50 yards is no problem and three-eighths inch groups are common using JSB 8.44 right out of the tin. Can’t wait to try sorted and sized pellets in it this summer! With performance like that the AR20 has earned a wooden stock – working on it right now, going to see if I can fix the “ugly” part.

            Curious on how well this pumper performs!

            Keep the reports coming Tom – love them! Read every review and all the comments every day – there is always something of interest!

            Cheers!
            Vana2


            • Vana2,

              Wow! Half-inch 10-shot groups at 50 yards are nothing to sneeze at! They are the Holy Grail, as far as I’m concerned.

              I didn’t realize just how accurate that AR20 is. The styling really turned me off, but I might have to look at one now.

              B.B.


              • The AR20 remains one of the most accurate PCP’s out there, it’s a “proper” Hammerli too, not badge engineering
                It’s not a tactical styled gun per se, more ergonomic/target
                Well worth a review


          • I not a new reader but a new poster.

            I have a basic understanding of what you like from reading this blog and look to you as a source of knowledge and respect your expert experience in the shooting sports. I also see you as an ambassador of airguns. I understand why you review all types of guns and value your opinion on the performance of them, but are you stating or agreeing to an opinion about the “Type” of gun or ” Type” of person that would buy a gun like this. As a champion and advocate of air gunning as a whole, I see it improper to alienate anyone who shows interest in air gunning whether they are “serious” or not.

            And as someone else commented later that a person who would like a tactical military styled rifle is inbred and will end up going to a school and shoot kids is ludicrous. That kind of thinking is what gets guns of any type banned.
            I see liking tactical military styled rifles or “Tacticool” no different than liking replica bb pistols such as the peacemaker. It is all about what makes airguns fun for you. As far as I am concerned, no amount of Airgun snobbery is good for any level of our sport.



            • Let me answer this question because I think your going a little off base, the type of person we are talking here IS the columbine kids, they have made their own category, and yes there are lots of people that might like this gun, but the FACT Of the matter id that it was made FOR that demographic, that’s just honest truth. I appreciate all styles and when it comes to this stuff its naive to say it wasn’t made for the same stereotype as slimjim to skareboatding teenagers or anything else, its the way it is. Nobody thinks the gun is going to grow a school shooter, just like slimjims won’t make you skateboard, but if you eat a slimjim do you feel like skatebiarding? Not everyone. Nothing is for everyone but there are target demographics that harbor stereotypes.


            • And welcome to posting, it is fun to jump in on controversial convo, hope you keep posting! I did almost the same thing, got in a topic and thought something was being negatively portrayed and said so, said anyone supporting was the downfall of the sport, I’ve since changed my understanding and now think its appropriate that our airguns are differentiated from violence weapons.


            • Bart, let me respond to that. I don’t think that a certain type of gun creates school shooters. I’ll agree with Rifled DNA that certain types of guns, the “military looking” guns, do tend to appeal to the sort of people who do that sort of thing. They also appeal to a lot of other people. I’m not demonizing the “military style assault weapons”.

              My comment, actually, was a stab at the parents who are afraid to let their kids have anything that looks like a gun because they think that it’s going to make their children violent.

              I had no intention of mocking the people who buy guns that look like this, or this gun specifically. I was making light of the people that this gun seems to be marketed toward, and those people are not air gun people, and that’s the point I was trying to make. They seem to be marketing this toward people who really won’t ever shoot the thing.

              All of that being said, if the review are true, if they really have made these guns that accurate, I might choose to over look the insanely ugly stock and get one, probably the gas spring piston model, since I could use a good magnum spring piston in .177. Maybe if this test goes really well Tom could think about reviewing the big brother at some point in the future.

              So before you go after Tom for agreeing with my comment, realize that I’m not attacking the people who buy this gun, but rather the marketing tactics and the people to whom this gun is targeted. If this really is a good gun, I’d be much more happy to see them work to make the gun appeal more to people who actually will shoot it.


            • Well, it seems to be doing it again. I posted on thing, and it doesn’t show up, I post another, it shows up. I know I posted the first on though, because if I try to repost, it says it’s a duplicate. Hope I’m not doing anything wrong here.

              Bob M, I’m not trying to be an airgun snob here. It’s an inexpensive gun, nothing wrong with that. I like my 40 dollar Daisy 880 just fine.

              Some of us are put off by the name and the way the gun is designed. Things like the pump handle, they are sacrificing shootability in an effort to make it look cooler. (though with the hole through the “magazine” I think it looks ridiculous) That being said, I’m not trying to be a snob about it. We are just having some light hearted fun at the expense of the company, not other shooters.



              • Tim it wasn’t just about you. My casual observation of this and other blogs lead me to believe there is a certain amount of unjustified prejudice here. Perhaps most blog posters are of the same ilk and take pride in their accomplishments and have a tendency treat certain things as insignificant and therefore open to ridicule, instead of being more open minded.

                I had a longer post agreeing with you for the most part about the reasoning behind the existence of this rifle, good, bad or otherwise but it just jumped off my computer? Made mention of sarcasm and heirloom quality but it was too much too recreate.
                However I did mention the fact that perhaps not filling in the addition question to prevent spam actually puts it in spam ?


          • B.B.,

            Like I said the other day, “You are like the Consumer Reports of airguns”. Fair and unbiased reports that are backed up by testing and facts. Opinions, when offered, are backed up with comparisons and experience with other products.

            In reality,…. I think that would be a very tough thing for most of us to do, me included.


          • BB.,

            I thought one of the reasons you test guns you don’t like is because Pyramyd Air requested it. Note I didn’t say required it which I don’t think they can do, only requested.

            G&G


            • G&G,

              Quite the contrary. I ask for the guns I test and sometimes they tell me that some of the ones I ask for aren’t good sellers. I am reviewing this one because I see it on the shelves in the local box store and I want to know how it stacks up.

              Pyramyd Air sometimes does ask me to test certain airguns, but usually I do the picking.

              B.B.


          • We never know when a new rifle will shine in your reviews or if it will disappoints us. I think you are absolutely right in testing airguns even if your personally would not add it to your collection. If you did, preconceived notions would dictate what to write about, and we might eventually never learn something new.




      • B.B.
        “Tacticool”, I love it! Count me as part of the dinosaur herd, this gun holds absolutely no appeal. I get the M4-177, it looks kinda like the real thing, you can put a decent scope on it if you want and the clip makes it easy to load. If this gun can actually shoot the .125″ groups at ten meters claimed in the description I may change my mind I’m passing on this one.

        David


    • I actually own and have shot about 500 shots through adult sniper rifle. It is the most accurate by far of my 3 breakbarrels. By the way, just a normal airgunner who really enjoys the hobby and doesn’t believe in zombies.



        • Long trigger pull .cocking effort is not to bad about 30-35lbs.it has a fair amount of recoil, but the bipod really helps with accuracy.you have to get a better scope to get best accuracy.


      • Thanks for the information. Again, I wasn’t trying to attack anyone who bought one of these guns. Just a light hearted jab at the target demographics. If they really are consistently producing barrels that are that accurate, I will seriously consider one in the future, ugly stock and stupid tacticool setup or not.



    • I guess as an emerging sport, you are referring to here in the US? It may be to a point in some parts, but where I live it is dying out as has paint ball. It is something for the kids to play with until they get real guns. Also, some parents are waking up to the fact that maybe toy guns are not such a great gift for little Johnny to be playing with.

      That is also how it was with airguns, but now the grownups are starting to take a long, hard look at them again. I was not allowed to have a BB gun as a kid because my Dad had a BB gun as a kid. I did have a .22 rifle though.


      • Pardon me, you are referring to airguns, not just airsoft.

        Where I live, what few grownups who do consider airguns think Gamo makes top shelf air rifles, thanks to the big box stores. When I discuss with them about true top shelf air rifles, they remark with a stereotypical hillbilly drawl, “I can buy a Bushwhacker AR47T fro that!”


        • It’s a big world…I would like to think there’s room for all of our tastes.
          Sorry RidgeRunner, but I find this really counterproductive to the shooting sports.
          The people who think:
          “I hunt…I see no reason to own a handgun”
          “I hunt…who needs a black rifle”
          “I only see the point of jewel like precision air rifles…there’s no need for Gamo crap”
          As people have mentioned…let them take away our Bushwackers and they will go after your bolt action Savage next.


          • No need to apologize. I too support their right to have whatever they desire and can afford.

            I do wish some of them had a few more limbs on their family tree though.


        • RidgeRunner,

          That has been my experience as well. I once tried to talk to two guys about the accuracy of most Gamos not being the best frequently because of the velocity. They were looking at one of the cheapest Gamos (can’t remember the model). On of them said he owned the rifle already and that it was extremely accurate. I just said ok and walked away feeling bad for him that he might never experience true accuracy. I didn’t ask but maybe he considers 2″ groups at 25 yards accurate. Of course, maybe he did have the one in a million cheap Gamo that shoots great, but I doubt it.

          G&G


          • G&G,

            It could also depend on your point of reference. When most of your shooting has been done with a Mattelomatic at a man size silhouette target, that might seem accurate.

            A while back I bought a Ruger Air Hawk from a guy at a yard sale who was telling me how accurate it was. He even threw in the Daisy pointed pellets he was using. I bought it because the price was right. No, it was not the one in a million Ruger Air Hawk.



  6. When I clicked on the P.A. sight my jaw about dropped at the 60$ price. What will you get for that? Read down and P.A. said they got 1/8″ groups at 10 meters. I would say that is pretty good unless it is a misprint.

    It will be interesting to see B.B. put it through it’s paces. I’m sure that this IS quite a departure compared to the normal test subjects.




  7. That’s 0.125 inch groups…guess I just jumped on the skeptic’s bandwagon with everyone else! That alone would be reason to test this gun. Twotalon made me LOL–1 to 8 inches!



  8. From the photo, your preliminary description, and the price, this looks and
    sounds similar to the Umarex APX, although potentially more accurate and on a more adult scale.The rest of your report should be interesting


    • I think it looks a lot less 880-ish than the APX. My Brother likes the 880 and I’m trying to find an airgun in it’s price and power range to steer him toward. This bolt appears to offer a lot more leverage for cocking. I agree this should be an interesting review.

      Reb


  9. Checking Shotgun News, which has perhaps 30% (or more..) AR type advertisements in Display type alone ,we now have a generation who think an AR means a rifle. Not a Remington 7400, Browning B.A.R ( the sporting rifle.)
    Ruger 77, Win.70,, Remington 700, Ruger Mini-14. A rifle is an AR pattern. These plastic toys murdered many thousands of our guys in VietNam. Indeed, Paper and animals are not packing.
    Pete
    “Old Town” Orcutt, California


  10. B.B.,

    I read your 15-part series on the FWB 124. Thank you for writing it.

    What mounts do you recommend I try for my San Rafael FWB Sport? During your testing, you installed a BKL 260 .007 Droop Mount on your rifle. Sportsmatch cross pin mounts seem like another good choice. I don’t know if my FWB 124 has barrel droop. Seems like a choice between knowing the mount is properly anchored (Sportsmatch) or allowance for barrel droop.

    Appreciate your help,

    RB


    • RB,

      Most of the 124s I have shot have had some droop. That number comes to over 30 rifles by now. I like the idea of a mount with a crosspin, but I think you will need to shim under the rear of the scope at the minimum. As you read, the BKL mount was ideal for the rifle I tested.

      As for proper anchoring, the long-stroke 124 was the early poster-child for breaking scopes and for moving the mounts! It may not seem like it today, but that scope really needs to be cinched down tight on this one.

      B.B.


    • RB
      Easy way to tell if any break barrel has droop is to prop up your rifle and put a small level on the spring tube, when bubble is level gently move and place level on barrel without moving gun, if barrel has droop the level will tell. In most cases the droop is not enough to run out of adjustment on scope, only if droop that is obvious can be seen just by eye while holding the gun up to shoulder and look along tube and past barrel and notice the barrel off axis and pointing down and in some cases pointing up like most Turkish break barrels.



      • Chris in Ct
        I missed this post for some reason.

        That is a good quick simple idea you have there. Maybe this will make it even easier.

        Once you get your gun level with the bubble level. Just place another bubble level on the barrel.

        That way you can reference both levels at the same time. That little trick of yours could be good to show if a break barrel does repeat its lock up also.

        I like it. 🙂


        • Should say when you get your guns spring tube level like you said above. Then place another level so you don’t have to slide the one. Then you can see both for reference.


        • Gunfun1
          You can also check to see if piston seal doing it job, buy placing your index finger on air transfer port while Carefully holding barrel open and slightly pulling down on barrel and letting it go back up making sure barrel or stock don’t get away from you, you will feel a little compressed air blow finger off. Again be careful not to pinch finger..


          • Chris in Ct
            You just brought something up that I was going to say something about and it keeps slipping by me.

            All true about the barrel not locking up tight and feeling air between the barrel and the transfer port. But first things first. A good seal at the breech. And then of course to check the lick up with your level trick. By the way we have precision bubble levels that work like a protractor and wilk tell the degrees that a surface us at.

            Here’s the thing I have thought about. What happens if you get them tight seating pellets on a break barrel gun. And by chance the pellet skirt gets shaved off. I the shaved of piece has to be somewhere when the barrel closes. And then the pellet is basically messed up.

            That’s got to throw accuracy off for that pellet when its shot. I don’t like to use them but maybe a pellet seated would be kind of a mandatory tool for a break barrel. That could eliminate that problem of not being loaded in the barrel far enough.

            Just a thought. 🙂



            • Gunfun1
              I think a pellet pen aka pellet seat-er is a handy tool for tight breaches or hard alloy pellets. I use mostly soft lead myself like Beeman/HN/JSB/AirArm, I will shoot Crosman premiers from time to time. I’ve had skirts clipped/shaved off accidentally from pellets that were to lose in breach and didn’t pay attention how I closed barrel you know you got to point barrel down.



              • Chris in Ct
                And remember the original conversation was about detecting barrel droop.

                That’s why I brought up the point about pellet seating.

                If the pellet is not seated flush in the barrel because its tight pushing in the barrel the skirt may get clipped off and the shavings will keep the barrel from closing true. And it could also allow the barrel to not close and seal the barrel to transfer port if the pellet is sticking out even with the seal.



  11. I will tell you what I got the big brother to this gun the break barrel black ops sniper gun and it is very powerful and accurate. the stock looks like it would cost 100 bucks totally adjustable. I hope this one is as accurate


    • Mr Meener,

      Which version do you own (gas piston or springer)? The 44 lbs cocking is a bit of a turn off but other wise “big brother” looks interesting.

      David


      • Dave I bought it when it first came out so it is a spring version would have liked the gas version. do not worry about the cocking force it has a long barrel plus like a 7 inch muzzle break plenty of leverage. it shoots almost 1000 fps with CPHP.
        it comes with 2 bipod legs that go on a weaver rail they are worth 40 bucks. I tapped the muzzle break and put and AR front site on it and a AR rear site on the receiver and get AR practice with it. it has a 31 inch site radius. it is hard to believe they can sell this gun for 150 it is a big heavy powerful gun that can be fired off the bipod. with the irons or the scope it is great practice for PB rifles.



          • I have never cocked a NP rifle. I do not know how to measure the stroke but it when you are cocking it and the barrel is at 90 degrees to the bottom of the gun it goes 8 inches past 90. I tapped a weaver rail to the muzzle break and put an AR site on it and a AR rear site on the receiver. great practice and it shoots a variety of pellets well


  12. This thing does look pretty silly.

    I am not, personally, a fan of the assault rifle look on airguns. For one thing, I don’t like the unpleasant association of the shooting sports with war (or massacres or whatever). Also, they are neither military equipment nor machine guns and shouldn’t look like something they are not.

    If it shoots well, maybe there’s a market for it, but I also have doubts that it’ll turn teens who like tacticool badass-looking stuff into airgunners 🙂


  13. Once again thanks to all for your answers. The 1 piece V. 2 piece scope mount discussion was very interesting and once agin I’ve picked up what I consider to be a very valuable piece of information that I doubt would be found in many other places. This is a cross post from yesterday’s topic

    BTW does anyone know if the CT Airgun show is finished or not?

    Thanks guys!! Kevin in CT


    • Kevin in CT
      The lodge that the show was held in was up for sale/sold, and last year show was canceled. The man in charge was Kevin Hull of CT Airguns (860) 649-7599.


  14. If this gun has the accuracy claimed, I wonder how many of these guns will be able to repeat it. In other words, at a price like that, it would seem to me that consistency between individual guns would be very hard to maintain.

    This gun’s closest competitor in looks and price is the Crosman M4-77. The M4-77 is simply a repackaged 760, but does have the advantage of an adjustable stock. The M4-77 has the forestock has a pumping handle, which makes it more comfortable to pump than either a 760 or a Daisy 880. The 880 gives me a blistered finger from pumping it, and the 760 is rather hard to pump because of its short pump handle.

    All four of these guns sell in the same price range and can use either bb’s or pellets. Two are styled like military arms, the other two like sporting arms. All are within $10 or each other.

    Crosman and Daisy have the brand reputation, but that may not mean anything to a first-time buyer. In a way, our own hobby rests on the performance of entry-level guns. If they do not perform to expectation, they can turn a newcomer off to the whole hobby. A buyer of bargain big-box guns may never get exposed to the better products. If buyers of GAMOs are left thinking these are the best available (and they may well be, at a big box store) they will be missing out on the really good stuff.

    I shoot both airguns and powder-burners. Lately, I have noticed a price overlap between moderately-priced springers and entry-level airguns. Shooting airguns is a different experience than shooting powder burners. Even when comparing them with .22LR, the pellet guns are not only much cheaper to feed, but ammunition is a great deal easier to find. I wish I could find a “4 for the price of 3” deal on .22LR! Around here, .22LR is 8.5-9 cents a round. .22 Winchester Magnum is 30 cents a round. My point is learning to shoot a rifle well requires a lot of practice, and the cheaper the ammunition, the more one can practice. .22 LR is pretty difficult to find, harder to find than the .22 Mags.

    Les


    • I meant to say, there is a price overlap between moderately-priced springers and entry-level priced powderburners.

      This presents the buyer with a choice between them for the same money.

      Les


    • Desertdweller
      Did you try the Wal mart app or just google 22lr ammo Wal mart. All the Wal marts in my area today got Winchester 333 value pack and Remington golden bullet 225 value pack that’s .05 cents per round.


      • Chris,

        That is not the case here. The nearest Wal-Mart is 50 miles away, and is chronically out of .22LR.
        They receive ammunition on Wednesdays, usually get either no .22LR or less than 300 rounds, and sell out almost immediately. If they do happen to have some, customers are limited because the limited supply is rationed.

        Our local gun store gets its ammunition on Thursdays. Typically either gets no .22LR or a most a few hundred rounds, which again sells out immediately..

        Our nearest Cabela’s is 60 miles away (in the opposite direction of Wal-Mart). They lack .22LR, but will sell you 100 rounds if you buy a new gun at the same time.

        By using all three sources, I was able to buy 1,000 rounds after two months of trying. My ammunition supply is a mix of different manufacturers and bullet designs. It is a case of buying whatever you can get.

        I wonder why a chain like Wal-Mart with national distribution cannot get its act together on this. I think there is a tremendous demand for .22 ammo out here. Just about every household has at least one firearm, and the most common one is a .22. Even people with a variety of higher-powered firearms have a .22 in the mix, just like many airgun enthusiasts have at least one Red Ryder, no matter what else they have.

        Les


        • Im not surprised, with umarex making almost every style gun in a 22lr replica you can basically train for any gun with the cheaper ammo or just have the cool guns that you couldn’t afford in full caliber and shoot a hundred times more per dollar.to boot.


        • Les
          I think we all know its not the ammo manufacturers or Wal marts fault. Its the people who buy all the ammo, we just gonna have to wait out till they run out of money or decide 10.000 rounds is enough to sit on.


          • From what I’ve been able to determine, the ammo manufacturers are working at capacity to produce .22LR. Apparently, increasing production capacity for rim fire ammunition is a great deal more expensive than tooling up to produce center fire ammunition.

            Because of this, before a manufacturer installs tooling for rim fire, they need to be convinced that demand for this ammo will remain at a high level to assure a profit and recover the cost of expanding production.

            From a shooter’s perspective out here, the demand is huge and far outstrips the supply. Running out of money isn’t a problem when the most you can hope to buy at a time is 200 rounds or less. 10,000 rounds is enough to sit on, for sure, but accumulating that much at this rate would take over two years and no shooting.

            Chris, is the market saturated in Connecticut? If that is the case, the problem lies in neither the shooters or the manufacturers, but in the distribution chain.

            Les


            • Lex,

              I buy my bricks from Midway and have bought 6 bricks of 500 rounds each in the past 3 months. You just have to get on their notification list and then act quickly when the opportunity is presented.

              I own 4 times as much .22 rimfire ammo as I did before the shortages began. Of course the days of $10 bricks are gone forever, but I have paid as little as $26/brick. Don’t ask me the most I have paid, because I bought some target ammo.

              The shortage has translated into a huge price increase. But with pellets selling at $18/500, you knew that was going to happen.

              B.B.


              • BB,

                That same brick would cost $42 here, if one could be found. I am unfamiliar with Midway.
                I’ll Google them and see what the deal is.

                The shortage is across the board: big box stores, small box stores, hardware stores, gun stores, farm and ranch stores. No one can get enough. That’s why I think the problem lies in the distribution network.

                .22LR is the only size sometimes available. One store had .22 CB caps. I didn’t buy those, doubt that they would even feed properly. I have plenty of real pellet guns already.

                Air rifle school begins tomorrow night. Both my grand daughters will be starting with a fresh tin of RWS R10 match pellets. My grandson is smitten with the powder-burning side.

                Les


                • Les,

                  Honestly, Midway USA is the place to buy 22 ammo. What you do is attempt to purchase every kind they offer and they will bring up a screen that will notify you when some comes in. You have to act in minutes when that happens or it is all sold out.

                  I have missed about 50 offers for the 10-12 I’ve scored on.

                  B.B.



    • J.LEE,

      There is some truth in that. But, you know what?,….I think we got a pretty darn good bunch here.

      All of the regulars here have helped me out a great deal in my short time on this blog. ( My first by the way). I suppose that it’s only human nature as personalities are revealed and opinions expressed. And,.. I might add, it would seem that we have a pretty “mature” bunch as well. Throughout my life, I have always found myself seeking the advice and opinions of those that have already “been there, done that”. Did I always listen? Of course not. Should I have? Yes.

      Be it the youth that does listen and learn more often than not,..He or she will be light years ahead of their peers.


      • Chris, USA
        I had a shop teacher that always would say did you get all of that after he would rattle off a big statement of what he wanted done. I never knew how to answer. Then he would say show me.

        He would tell us at least once in the week that he got the most out of teaching when we would teach him something new.

        He was one of the best teachers I ever had.


    • I only have a jungle in my backyard if the lawnmower won’t start.

      It wouldn’t do any good anyway. No shooting allowed in this town. A kid got busted for shooting a toy bow and arrow set ($200 fine).

      I have a doghouse in my backyard that the dog refuses to go into. It is ten yards from my kitchen window, facing it. I have been sorely tempted to put a target in the doghouse and shoot at it from inside the kitchen.
      Not sure if it would be legal or not, but my wife won’t let me try.

      Les


  15. B.B,
    Wow! It seems the population on the blog here has exploded in the mere month or so I’ve been trying to get myself fixed. Any guess as to how many active new readers?

    Reb


  16. Good Friday
    My goodness, today’s blog has opened up some interesting, and controversial threads of conversation. There is always a plate full of “food for thought” offered in Edith’s, and BB’s airgun diner.
    As far as this Black Ops Junior airgun is concerned, it doesn’t offer much that would endear it to me like any Weihrauch, Diana, Air Arms, etc. All the airguns currently in my possession I would consider worthy of being passed down to my grandchildren when the time comes. Evan if this Black Ops Junior shows it can shoot .175 in groups at 10 meters, I would place it in a category I call “here today, gone tomorrow”. And if this airgun is still offered for sale in a year, I will be very surprised indeed. For example, a few people were singing the praises of Weihrauch’s HW35 a couple of days ago in the comments section. The quality of workmanship, unique barrel locking mechanism, and Record trigger, are just a few reasons why I think my HW35 still holds a niche alongside the TX200, LGU, and a host of top notch shooters made today. The HW35 of the 50’s is virtually the same gun I purchased new in Canada 4 years ago. It’s an airgun anyone would feel proud to put in their will, for future generations to enjoy. I’m trying my best not to sound elitist, but can anyone honestly say this Black Ops Junior would be an airgun they would be proud to own, let alone pass down?
    Ciao
    Titus


    • TG
      Definitely no heirloom. Maybe a trunk gun. Reminds me some years back when down south for the weekend funeral, was bored in hotel room. I went to Wal mart and bought the Remington Air Master 77 pump gun looked cool being chrome an all. Had fun shooting dragon flys and hot beer cans at pond back of hotel. Left it with my wife kin. I’m sure BB will tell us what this pumper is best at.


  17. Although I will never purchase this gun I still like this kind of review more than the real high end airguns.
    Its amazing haw pellets can flip around end for end when loading as you mentioned.


  18. Edith, Tom, looks like I managed to insult a fair number of people with my comment. Mostly, it seems, due to a lack of understanding about what I meant. I’m on my phone at work right now, but when I get home I’ll do my best to respond to those offended and clear things up.

    To be clear to those who misunderstood, I didn’t mean any offense to anyone who bought this gun. I also did not imply that people who like ar style guns are going to turn into school shooters.


    • If you read my comment above about target demographics harboring stereotypes, you didn’t say anything wrong, but we now know school shooting is on the black list of topics, kind of a given 😉 life goes on.


  19. This was posted by Bob M. and got eliminated by the spam filter.

    Sounds like a lot of you are not aware of the influence war games, played on PlayStation and X Box have on people these days. Warning ….you may get hooked if you try them.
    Really think some of you guys need to lighten up and stop looking like Air Gun snobs… It’s a ‘Fun sport’ and variety is the spice of life. Is this an Air Gun blog or a place for analysts and engineers to e mail ?

    BB, thank you for unbiased reports.

    I own a 4WD 3000GT VR4 but I don’t go off roading with it, I use my Jeep and I would not use this pump rifle to hunt or enter a target shooting competition. I own one. I would use my FX Independence, EVANIX AR6, Ruger Magnum or RWS 350. This is an economical fun gun for cans and yard targets for todays young people not an object to be criticized by air gun perfectionists and Psychologists. Pick on the best of the best to achieve perfection.
    BB delivers everything you need to make an informed decision for purchasing it or not and this blog is after all part of an air gun sales company….a little respect here.

    Now this blog is one outstanding place for air gun aficionados. Unlimited information available from experts who gladly share their knowledge and I am truly grateful to those people for taking the time out to help other air gunners, but don’t hijack it from simple enthusiasts….Please.

    Personally I like all types of guns, including real steel. I tinker and modify some but in general if I want better performance for a given use…I simply buy a better gun.
    I don’t hunt anything other than yard pests living in the country now. I never had the opportunity, growing up in NYC and then doing 20 in the Navy. Target shooting is my thing and I’m really not disappointed much if I miss….Just fun. I do take home protection seriously.

    I really do enjoy reading this blog and have for years, very informative, however the derogative stuff is getting annoying and I believe if you don’t do something to correct a problem…. You are part of it…

    Hope you all have a fine Air Gun day !!


    • Eliminated by spam filter…. sometimes when I post it pops up right away, other times it seems like hours later my post still isn’t there. Is that the issue, am I using the wrong words and the spam filter is killing my post?


    • Bob M
      Thank you for your perspective, and comments concerning this Black Ops airgun. Although I stand by my reasons, and decision for not purchasing this rifle, you do bring up a few excellent points that I will try to be more mindful of in future comments. You are correct when you claim this airgun to be a cheap plinker, and will find a home with those airgunners among us not willing or able to afford the higher end airguns. At $60 BB may indeed show it to be an excellent deal as a first airgun or casual plinker. Let me add that for $120.00 more, here in Canada, we can purchase a quality built Diana 240 Classic in .177, or .22cal made with steel, and wood. A year ago I counselled a friend’s 19 year old son to purchase one of these over those offered at a local box store. Six months later, two of his friends also purchased the Diana 240 Classic. A lifetime of shooting fun can be had for under $200.00 evan today, without any sacrifice in quality. These boys hadn’t known there are dedicated on-line stores that specialize in selling a low cost quality name brand pellet gun and not just the high end models. A similar inexpensive, quality airgun sold in America, would be the Bronco. If our sport is to grow in a healthy manner, we must be mindful to not exclude anyone based on his/her choice of airgun. I’m glad your comment made it through the spam filter.
      Ciao
      Titus


      • Titus,

        I think the key to introducing new shooters to the sport is to equip them with a good quality, reliable gun.
        This does not need to be an expensive gun, just one that is well-built and reasonably accurate.

        My first gun was a Daisy Model 95. This was a replacement for the Red Ryder after the RR was considered by Daisy to be obsolete. It had a plastic stock, and no logo, but otherwise was a Red Ryder.
        Eventually, Daisy wised up and put the RR back in production. I don’t know what that Model 95 sold for back then, but I’d bet it wasn’t much over $10.

        This gun never disappointed me as a ten year old kid. It taught me how to hit what I was aiming at. My friends all had Daisys as well.

        My point is that a first gun does not have to be expensive or sophisticated. I literally wore out my 95, and probably would have rebuilt it if I had realized that was possible.

        We need a modern replacement for this gun for adults. When the Broncos are gone, what will replace them?

        Les


  20. Hi everybody…

    could you give me a few tips on bluing? I would like to try bluing rusty airgun parts. I know that a possible DIY solution is to heat the metal and then drop it into cold oil. Another method is to boil it in vinegar.

    Are these good methods? Is it possible to get a result similar to a factory-blued Diana or Weihrauch barrel? I have tried the Klever “Schnellbrünierung” liquid but it looks pretty uneven when applied to a larger area.

    How much heat can an airgun barrel handle before it is damaged? Will it mess with the inside of the barrel if oil or chemicals cause it to be blued on the inside?

    I have googled but haven’t really found an answer, so some pointers would be great.

    Kind regards,
    Stephan


    • Stephan,

      The answer is a system called Blue Wonder. I have written about it in the past.

      /blog/2009/11/blue-wonder-cold-blue-part-2/

      I also have another cold blue project coming up in the near future. I will announce it next week.

      B.B.


      • The next time I strip my Airmaster’s bluing I’ll have some at least on order. The Birchwood Casey compound that I used is almost completely gone in under a year. It was very disheartening when I realized I’d have to redo it annually.
        Thanks again B.B.!



  21. BB,

    do you still have the guns you treated with Blue Wonder? How has the coating held up since?

    Still wondering about the DIY hot bluing methods, though. If they work, they might actually be less of a chore than applying coat after coat of cold bluing. So… any chance of damaging a barrel with heat or from getting the inside blued? Has anyone tried this?

    Then, there’s still the option of asking a gunsmith or metal workshop if they would blue things for you. Shouldn’t be the hardest thing for them to do if they already have a bluing bath running.


    • CptKlotz,

      I still have some of them and I know where they all are. Blue Wonder holds up as well as a hot blue job. It’s remarkable!

      Ironically, I was introduced to it in Nuernberg, at IWA in 2006. But the man who makes it lives in my home state of Texas.

      Small world.

      B.B.


  22. B.B.,

    HELP!

    Last night I went to the BFTA scope set up page that Vana2 had recommended. I proceeded to do optical centering procedure as described. ( Gun well supported, scopes caps loosened). Sure enough, there was an “arc” of the reticle bulls eye when the scope was rotated. I adjusted elevation mostly and with some windage until there was no more arc and the reticle bull rotated in place. Great! Reset zero on turret knobs, tighten scope ring caps and done.

    Next I decided to check the turret centering as Gunfunn1 described. I ran the elevation to the bottom and then counted the full turns out plus the final # of clicks. 535 clicks total, 1/2 way back, reset zero and done. Great!

    Next I adjusted the windage. (The first thing I noticed was that it only to 8 clicks to bottom the windage.) I then adjusted the windage back to 0 and then 2 full turns out plus 2 clicks. 154 clicks total, 1/2 way back, reset 0 and done. Great!

    So this morning I shot and the pellet hit 9 1/2″ to the right! Elevation was pretty good, within a 1/2″.

    I adjusted windage in and got to within 3 1/2″. ( At this point I that the windage knob was tighter that normal). A closer look at the windage knob revealed a tilt. Looking down on the scope from the top of the gun, the front side is higher than the rear side by .038″ or a little more than a 1/32″. It appears the “guts” of the windage turret are messed up in some way. Besides being tighter, there is hardly any adjustment at all. The locking ring is also stiffer. Clearly its on a bind.

    The scope is a UTG 3~12X44 A.O. ez-tap ( PY-A-4319 ). If I loosen the cap to reset 0, the cap will come up and get loose but will not come clear off. There is a “plug” of some kind on the side of the cap itself. The fixed zero ring also has 2 very small screws as well.

    The elevation knob works fine. The same care was given to the elevation and windage knob during any adjustments. {I am super bummed to say the least.} Any help would be appreciated. I fear though that I may have ruined a 150$ scope. 🙁

    Thanks, Chris

    P.S. I have to go out shopping today so it will be around 12~2 before I can check back.


    • Chris USA,

      First, return the scope for a replacement if you can.

      Next, forget centering the scope. Nobody who is a winner does that anymore. It’s an old technique that really isn’t required.

      We centered scopes in the 1990s so the pellet would not stray left and right as the vertical elevation knob was adjusted during a field target match. But we found out that more careful scope mounting and using better airguns solved that problem. So top shooters stopped doing it one by one. But there are still people who didn’t get the memo and continue to center the reticle today.

      B.B.


    • Chris, USA
      BB explained exactly why I talked about centering the turrets.

      If your scope reticle is adjusted a big amount away from the turret center it will show the scope is not mounted correct.

      If you take a mirror and and look through the scope the reticle will not be centered to the scope. In your case I will tell you 100% that your scope rings are not parallel to the barrel in windage.

      That’s what scope centering will show.

      I made something a long time ago that will show what I’m talking about. And with the scope turret centering I dont do this no more with the scope device I made

      I made two collars with a hole through the middle that mount in the scope rings. They had a hole through the center of them so I could put a rod through the hole. It was a slip fit. Then I would put a magnetic base with a dail indicator on the end of the rod. Now I touch th indicator tip to the top of the barrel and set the dial at zero.

      Then if you move the indicator forward and backwards and then rotate the indicator 90 degrees one way or the other and again move the indicator forward and backwards. If you can stay around 7 or 8 thousands to zero your scope will be optically centered.

      If you center your turrets that will show how far away from center you are.

      All this is used to see how true your scope is mounted. You tell me with the type of shooting you will do if all that matters.

      And also if your having trouble with your scope turret being cocked or whatever happen when you adjusted your turrets to the stop piont. It should not matter. You should be able to do that for the rest of your life and beyond. That is a faulty scope you have.


      • Gunfunn1,

        Thanks for the reply. The mount I used was a 1 piece mount, PY-A-827. I remember reading how B.B. would swap rings around in different ways, even shim mounts, and shim between scope and clamps. I figured a 1 piece would help out with some of that error.

        I mounted everything very carefully and tightened all screws in a progressive and criss-cross method. The tool you made makes sense. It would be nice to have something like that. I have access to quite a lot of things at work. I’ll look around and see what I can come up with. My tube is a 30mm. A 1″ would be easier to get stuff for.

        The link you posted was one that you had posted before and in fact saved it to favorites. The BFTA site that Vana2 recommended had the mirror trick but said the method I used was preferred.

        I will be ordering a 2 piece ring set up with the exchange. Perhaps if needed, the 2 piece mounts will give me more adjustment options. The TX dove tail seems awfully delicate with minimal contact. But, it has been used for a long time so it must be more than adequate.


        • Chris, USA
          I don’t think I would be worried about the dovetails on the TX. I’m wondering if the one piece mount you got has something wrong with it. Which you would think that the one piece mount should eliminate the mounting problems. But then again I guess strange things could happen. Man and machines aren’t perfect.

          Make sure you let me know what comes about when you mount the new scope.

          And I guess you done got that scope being sent back. And I dint think you said you have another air gun. But here’s something I do if I have something going on with a scope or gun. Is don’t take the scope out of the ring saddles and then try mounting it on another gun and see if it shoots about the same point of impact as your other gun and don’t re-zero the scope. If it shoots about the same that means there is probably something going on with the mount.

          Also some times if I’m having a problem like your having I will take the mount and scope off the gun and loosen the screws that hold the scope in the saddle of the rings. Remount the scope mount on your gun then tighten the saddle rings back down and shoot the gun without adjusting your zero and see if your point of impact changes from where you originally zeroed at. if so the scope mount was probably not mounted correct.

          Let me know what you think.


          • Gunfunn1,

            Yeah, it’s on it’s way back tommorrow after work. As for the scope mount, I don’t think I could have done better. It shot fine since new. The windage turret did not hold up. The elevation and windage were handled with the same delicate care and the elevation acts fine. And no, I do not have another air rifle to test on but that is a good idea.



  23. Well guys, I ordered the TX200. 22 cal in walnut along with the packaged scope & mount, hopefully it will arrive Tuesday 🙂

    Is it possible or allowed to post a picture along with your comments?

    Thanks, Kevin in CT



  24. K in Ct. Congratulations! that is exciting. The TX will probably be my next purchase, and the walnut stocks are beautiful. I have been playing with a new Marauder for the past year and having a great time with it. When I ordered it the beach stock version was out of stock, the delivery date got postponed and I got impatient and ordered the syn. version. It is not a pretty gun, it even seemed a bit cheesy at first. I got used to it quickly after beginning to shoot it. In the future I’ll try to excercise a bit more patience. Have fun!
    Mark T.


    • Thanks Mark, I would have most likely purchased a Marauder myself but I already have a Logun S16 and an Airforce Talon pistol (man that Talon is loud!!) along with the carbon fiber tank so I figured it was time for a nice springer 🙂


      • Kevin
        and a very nice springer it is! Wow , a carbon fiber tank. I sprung for a 100 cu ft HP tank. It is filled to 3440psi, and a lot cheaper than the C/F tanks I’ve seen. It is pretty heavy, glad I don’t need to carry it very far. Sure beats my hand pump! Only took me about a week of hand pumping to decide to order the tank. The quiet guns are needed here at my home, I have some close neighbors that I want to keep friendly and happy. The Marauder and someday the TX are great for that.


        • I got the CF tank because I’m lucky to have a Fire Department close by that is willing to fill it for me. My wife starts shopping for toys around August, when we have enough to fill our spare room we bring them to the FD for the Christmas toy drive. The guys there are just blown away and I believe it goes a long way to getting the air bottles filled 🙂 On another note, I always remember having great Christmas’s when I was a kid and it pains my wife & myself to think that some children would not get anything at all if it wasn’t for the various charities.


          • Kevin, Good for you! If those of us with plenty share with those who don’t, we will create a better world. I don’t believe in enabling people to exist in a permanent state of living off of hand outs, but I sure believe in giving folks a hand up, and the kids certainly can’t control their financial condition. I was not familiar with your Logan S16 so I did a little research on it. Sounds quite interesting. Good power, accuracy, shot count per fill, and quiet. Sounds like a great system!


            • Mark, we are totally on the same page as far as the handouts go, I used to get mad when I’d see carloads of kids coming in from the neighboring city to go Trick or Treating in my neighborhood but then I realized that the parents wanted them to have a safe place to go and to experience Halloween like so many other more fortunate kids do. I remember feeling ashamed of myself for that and I always make sure to hand out extra stuff to them when they come around now.


  25. BB wrote:

    “Ironically, I was introduced to it in Nuernberg, at IWA in 2006. But the man who makes it lives in my home state of Texas. ”

    Even more ironically, the stuff doesn’t seem to be sold in Germany at the moment. Or it has a different name. Or I haven’t looked hard enough 🙂


    • CptKlotz,

      No, it’s still being sold, but I guess they don’t have any European distributors. It is the kind of product Frankonia Jagd should carry — not because Germans use cold blue, but because it works so well and produces such a superior result.

      B.B.


  26. Frankonia only has the Klever stuff (Klever is the company that makes Ballistol).

    There are, of course, alternatives. I just don’t know if they’re good 🙂

    Anyway, thanks for your help! Let me know if you need help with something German…


  27. BB,

    I’d love to see what that gun has under its tactical plastic hood…does it use the innards of a Daisy 880? To me, it looks like an all-new gun, not another variation of the usual Crosman / Daisy suspects. And this makes this gun interesting, despite its not-so appealing styling.


  28. B.B. and others,

    Off topic, but I would appreciate your opinion. I believe I read somewhere that 11mm. dovetails can vary in width to something like 9~14 mm. Since all scope mounts have a “fixed side” and a “clamp side”, would that not be a potentiol windage set up problem? A 9mm. would put the scope more to the right and a 14mm. would put more left of center, (with the fixed on the left), would it not?

    Thank you, Chris



      • BB

        You need to think about what your saying.

        The ring is centered to the fixed side of the mounts dove tail hard or fixed side of the mount.

        What is that hard side of the scope made to be center of.

        If the hard side of the scope mount that attaches to the dove tail is made for the smaller dovetail when you put that same mount on a wider dovetail the scope will be moved more to one side because the groove on the gun is wider.

        Sorry BB but Chris is 100% right. The scope will shift to one side depending on what dovetail width it was designed for. If its used on other width dovetails it will still bolt up and clamp but it will shift the scope more to one side.

        The only way it would be acceptable is if they designed the centerline of the rings to accept a certian amount of side to side tolerance that would allow your scope to fall into a certain side to side locacation.


        • Gunnfunn1,

          Thanks for that “back up”. It would seem that we have a point. While I am certainly not trying to butt heads with B.B., I do not see any other way to look at it.

          The fully adjustable scope rings are interesting, be it pretty high cost though. Plus, just more stuff to possibly come loose. I re-read your dial indicator method several times, but am having a hard time picturing it in action. I have access to one. I am still trying to find a tube or rod to start this. Maybe conduit or pipe with a close o.d.. See my reply to Mark T. below.


  29. B.B.,

    Please forgive me,…But the (pinch point on the fixed side) and the (ring center) are at a FIXED distance apart. That will never change. So if you mount a ring on a 9.5 mm. rail, the ring center will be at a “X” fixed point. Mount that same ring on a 13.5mm rail, (a 4mm. width difference), then the fixed side would be “dragged” 2mm. to one side,..would it not?

    Maybe windage adjustments would take care of that, but with recent “events”, I have to wonder. You know that 3/8″ and 11mm. are not the same,(.375/.4331). So if you get a clamp that claims “fits 9.5~13.5mm. dovetails” or “3/8″ to 11mm.” dovetails, the fixed edge of the clamp, regardless of dovetail size, dictates were that were that scope ring center will end up.

    While it would seem that a mounting fit “range” might be a good thing, the downside seems to be an inherant windage issue. Do I got it wrong? It seems like simple math to me.

    Thank you, Chris


    • Chris, I have been concerned about the exact situation you just described. My most recent scope purchase I ordered the BKL mounts. They appear to flex on both sides and should keep the scope centered. It is fairly likely that the other mounts are close enough to center that the windage adjustment makes up for up to 2MM of error. They are a bit pricier but I like this idea better.



        • Chris, USA
          I replied down here about the collar and the rod to check the scope mount centering.

          Maybe this will help. Think of a piece of notebook paper with lines. Take a ink pen and and darken one line halfway across the paper starting from the left of the paper. Then do the same to the line right below it but go from the left side of the paper all the way to the right. The top line would be that rod or the center of your scope mounted in the rings. The bottom line would be the top of the barrel.

          If you measure between the lines in different places down the two lines you should get the same reading. If not that is showing the back ring or front ring could be higher or lower then the other or the barrel could have the droop that everybody talks about or even the barrel could have rise. So that part of test shows if your barrel is parallel to the scope center line for up and down.

          Now for side to side that we are discussing. And this I will explain with the indicator. If we look at the gun and rod from standing over the gun. The rod will be above the barrel. Now I attach the dial indicator to the rod that is in the scope ring collars. So now I take and touch the indicator tip to the top of the barrel and put the dial on zero. Now I rotate to the left and write that measurement down. Now I rotate to the right 180 degrees opposite and write that measurement down. Then move about a inch forward and do the same recording your measurements. And you can go another inch forward and record the readings if you want.

          What that part of the test will show is if the back ring and forward ring will be shifted more to one side of the barrel then the other which would be the mount locating of the hard side of the scope mount. And also the readings we recorded as we moved a inch at a time farther down the barrel will show if the back ring and forward ring are opposite of each other. For example the back ring could be to the left and the front ring could be to the right or vise versa plus be off to one side because of the hard side of the mount.. That will also make your guns (poi) or point of impact change.

          Some people correct all those alignment problems with the scope rings inserts or shims. Some people don’t worry about correcting. The only reason I came up with the collars and rod mounted in the rings was because it was a point in my time learning about scopes and I wanted to know for sure if I had the rings mounted true. Up and down I don’t worry about so much now days. But if I do notice that my scope is close to the up adjustment maybe because its a lower velocity gun I will but a shim under the rear scope ring. Now if I mount a scope after I centered the side to side turret and I see its off aways from center and getting close to bottoming out the adjustment then I will correct with a shim on the back ring also off to one side. I try to get the turret back closer to zero after adding the shims. The side to side will show the POI shifting more and more to one side as distances increase or decrees that you shoot at. And that I don’t like. I don’t want to hold no windage into my shot at different distances because the scope ain’t true side to side. Now elevation that is normal to have to put hold into your shot at different distances. So people wont see a scope mounting problem on elevation other than if the turret is aways from center.

          And I have used the BKL split mounts that center themselves which they are pretty good. And I found that the AirForce 2 piece rings to be pretty good. They still have the one hard side of the ring mount but it seems they have their tolerances figured out a little better. I hope I explained better.


  30. Gunfunn1,

    Thanks for that detailed reply. The rise or droop I got.

    On the windage shift however, I’m still a bit confused. Like you, I (do not) want to adjust for windage at different distances,…just hold over or under, however I decide to set it up.

    First, I have used dial indicators, mag. bases and a host of related accys.. With the indicator tip on the top of the barrel, dial zeroed,….it would seem that the indicator tip would only swing (up and right and up and left,..if the rod is rotated.) This would allow the indicator stem to lenghten with each swing either way. At some point the indicator stem would extend enough and slide off the side of the barrel. If I am understanding you correctly, you are twisting the rod and NOT rotating the indicator base on the rod for this test.

    What would make much more sense is if the (indiactor was positioned on the side of the barrel) and then (the rod pulled back and forward.) This would indicate barrel/rod being un-parralell. It would only need done on one side as the opposite side would only give opposite readings if there was an issue. Of course, the rod would need to be pushed and pulled without rotating it at all. That would be the trick.


    • Chris, USA
      Yes you need to zero on the side not the top and slide the magnet and indicator forward and back. That will give you your front ring position to your rear ring position.

      To check the side to side location of the mount to the barrel the gun has to be layed on its side and zerod on the high point of the rod then you have to move the gun barrel over to the indicator tip and take a reading on the high point of the side of the barrel. Then you need to lay the gun on the other side and zero on the high spot of the rod then move the gun barrel under the indicator and find the high spot of the barrel.

      The indicator is no way attached to the rod or barrel for the side to side check. You have to lay the gun action on the indicator base or flat piece of steel. You can put a level on the breech or barrel or use parralkels or 1-2-3 blocks if needed. I do it at work all the time. I guess I thought you nknew the different type of ways to position or set up the gun to measure.

      I can set the gun action up in the hard vise at work that is on the Bridgeport. We use a deal that spins in the collet that’s called a edge finder. I can find the edge of the barrel and zero out the x and y axis on the Bridgeport table and and even touch of to the side of the scope then edge find the side of the barrel. But the main thing is I have to sweep the side of the barrel with a indicator in the collet to make make sure the barrel is parralel to the the vises hard jaw. The the indicator or need to be ran down the distance of the top of the barrel to make sure it’s level.

      I was trying to kind of simplify my answer but couldn’t explain correct. Im hopping that I didn’t confuse things more. And please don’t take me wrong. I’m not trying to be a jerk I’m trying to explain. And think pictures would do the explanation justice. Maybe I will set two rods up in the Bridgeport and simulate what I do.



        • Chris, USA
          Time for me to sleep.

          But I did take some pictures that shows more of what I’m talking about. But its not a actual gun barrel or scope and rings its two sets of rods on the Bridgeport in the vise and also two drills using a indicator stand and base that simulate the barrel and scope or measuring in relation to what we been talking about.

          I will post them on photo bucket if you want unless I can figure out how directly from my phone.

          Anyway ok will see how it goes tomorrow.


  31. Gunnfun1,

    Yeah, I am confused. We have a bridgeport mill at work and center finders and blocks and everything else but taking anything related to guns to work would be out of the question. The method I thought that you were talking about could be done at home on top of the kitchen counter, with gun rested in holder.

    It would seem that the same thing could be done with a rod that is the same o.d. as the scope tube, firmly clamped in the rings. The rod front end would be halfway from the front ring to the muzzle end of the barrel. Then set up a dial indicator “as needed” and,.. by moving the indictor AND base forward and backward (on the rod),..any taper could be indicated. Of course, the indicator reading would vary depending on what point of the barrel diameter you are on, but the MAX. low reading at the front and the MAX. low reading towards the breech would be the 2 measurements that you would want. The method would be the same for top and side.

    This I can do. While different than what you seem to be describing, it seems that it would give you the same results. That would be the most I can do with what I have available.


    • Chris, USA
      That’s exactly what I mean. And really if we want to know all these measurements we could actually take them off the 1″ or 30 mm scope tube in front of or behind the front and back scope ring. That would give the truest measurements.

      And I guess I’m a lucky person. The owner of the company shoots and hunts air gun and firearms as well as his son and other people at work. We have been to his house and they have been to my house to shoot. At our old shop before we moved to this one it was a building on the edge of woods. We were able to bring air guns to work and shoot before and after work along with lunchtime if we wanted.

      When I started back in the early 80’s we had government contracts and made everything from 20,25and 30 mm projectiles along with the m430 grenades. We made parts for the laser guided bombs and some gun and jet fighter plane parts. We even made flight simulators at one time. Oh and I have done work modifying my bosses first generation .25 cal. Marauder while on the clock. There are 3 of us that are basically work together to make and repair stuff and them two guys work on days and I work 2nd shift. You wouldn’t believe all the little projects I end up with. Matter of fact the owner let me bring my first gen. Mrod I had in to mill out the wood stock that had double resivoirs that Lloyd Sikes from Air gun made for me. So yep I’m lucky that I got the job I got. 30 something years of lucky fore sure. I don’t know how often you hear this but yes I like my job. 🙂


  32. Gunfunn1,

    Glad we are on finally on the same page! Hope to see some pictures just to be sure. I appreciate all of your time and effort! I got a 3/4″ rod and bushings that fit it, but the bushing O.D. is too small for a good ring fit. Plus since the the scope is out at the moment, I have no tube o.d. to measure. I believe the o.d. should be 30mm.. I may just order a rod from McMaster Carr if I can not get something turned down at work and skip the bushing thing or get bushings that will fit the rod. The rod I got looks like hot rolled and would prefer cold rolled for the smoother finish. I assume an average person can order from them and just not a buisness.

    Bye for now, got to pay some bills, pack lunch, etc., and check out the latest article.


    • Chris, USA
      We are on the same page and I will try to post some pictures.

      I think the easiest way would be just leave the scope mounted as is and dont even worry about the rod. Just measure off the scope tube itself. That way you know exactly what the scope is mounted like.

      I will post the pictures here since we been talking here. And my computer has been giving me trouble. I think its getting tired.


  33. Gunfunn1,

    I do not see how I could do that with the scope mounted. The rings take up nearly all of the 30mm. tube in front of and behind the turrets. They are 13/16″ wide with 4 screws each. The one piece mount I got set the rings very close to the bells on both ends, but not on the bell tapers. Plus this would reverse the whole process and extend the dial indcator set up to some ridiculous length. You got me confused on doing the scope on the gun.

    Speaking of the 1 piece mount, ( look up PY-A-827), I wanted to take an up close at how well the male dovetails fit the female one on the gun. What I saw first was that the fixed one on the mount did not have a “crisp” point but rather slightly flattened. The ones on the gun are so fine that I think a sharply pointed one would be better.

    Looking at the bar on the clamp side of the mount, if you look closely at the photo, you will see that the clamp point is longer than the then the one on the top of the bar. Mine was mounted this way. What is of interest is that the bar is simetrical in all ways. It can be flipped over. Both points are noticeably sharper on the bar side, though the taller bottom one appears to be the one that is intended to be used.

    What is odd is that with the bar removed and layed end to end with the fixed side,..the bottom dovetail sit higher than the one on the fixed side. The top point matches the fixed one better, though I do not suppose it was designed to be used as the clamping point.

    Bottom line here is that someone could unknowingly flip this bar over and change the mounting dynamics. The top point would act as a pivot or fulcrum. I ordered 2 piece mounts, (PY-A-791). They are made the same as you can see. I see that some rings are one piece, without the removeable piece. Do you have an opinion on either type? Also, with the dovetails on the TX, do your mounts have sharp points or are they blunted? Obviously a sharp point would seat fully in the dovetail while a blunted one would not.

    And yes, you are lucky to work where you do. 🙂


  34. Chris, USA
    Here’s them pictures. I just used drills positioned one on top of the other. The short one is the scope and the long one is the barrel. One picture is the edge finder with it kicked out as if you touched off to the edge of something and its on the red tool box. The pictures with the dial indicator and edge finder on the Bridgeport I move the table the vise is bolted on to get the readings on the digital readout. The dial indicator says zero on picture and the other picture of the dial indicator shows .014” same if you look at the digital readout when the edge finder is used. the last pictures show as if you lay the gum on a base.

    when I use the Bridge port I can use the x and y digital readout to remember my home or zero location. So I can move the table in any position and still know where I took my original reading from. Also with the vertical spindle that is holding the indicator or edge finder. So I always know where my measurement originated from.

    And you know some of the clamps on the scope mounts can be rotated for different size dovetails. The soft side that the bolt tightens on to. And your scope rings are that wide on your rings? We got indicator tips that are only .015” diameter so we can go down in small holes with or in between 2 steps. And BB has talked about how the makers of the scope rings and manufactures of the guns can’t agree on the dove tail clamping design.

    And I have thought about buying me some equipment over the years but the owner always tells me don’t worry about it that I can use anything there as long as its on my time and the equipment isn’t needed at that time for work purposes.

    But here’s the pictures. I did it as a slide show so I hope that works out.

    http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/gcars/slideshow/


    • Gunfunn1,

      Thank you for the time and effort you put into the pictures. I will look them over more at a later date. I do not have access to the mill at work, but you did say my counter top method work as well, so well see. Scope should be here tomorrow.

      I brought home a McMaster Carr catalog so I can see what I can come up with. I love that catalog. It looks like a person could build darn near anything with the stuff in it.

      Thanks again, we’ll end it here and catch up to you on future blogs. Chris


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