by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
UTG Monopod v-rest and camera adapter.
This report covers:
• Bipods are very steady
• Sitting higher is easier on the back
• How I use the monopod
• It really works!
• The camera adapter
When I introduced the UTG Monopod v-rest and camera adapter before Christmas, I made some big claims about its stability. Claims like this monopod is steadier than most of the bipods on the market. Today, I’m prepared to back that up with explanations and pictures.
Bipods are very steady
Make no mistake — a bipod used correctly can be very steady — even benchrest steady. The problem is that they’re often not being used correctly, especially by field target shooters, which is what I want to talk about today.
Let’s go back 140 years ago to a time to when bipods were used by buffalo hunters. They didn’t really have what we know as bipods today — they simply crossed sticks and tied them together with rawhide straps. From that name, “sticks” is often applied to bipods. Shooting sticks still exist today and are very similar to what the buffalo hunters used. Strictly speaking, sticks are a type of bipod, but they’re not the only type.
Buffalo hunters shot from sitting or sometimes the prone position. They did so to keep the muzzles of their rifles as low as possible. That lets the muzzle blast roll across the earth in an indistinct boom rather than a sharp crack that’s easy to locate. Their rifles usually weighed 12-16 lbs., and the sticks were used both to steady the barrels and to support the great weight.
Once on a “stand” (a shooting position), they wanted to shoot as many buffaloes as their skinners could handle in one day. They found they could do this by shooting a herd from afar (300-500 yards) and by keeping their muzzles close to the ground to keep the sound muffled. On a good day, they shot 30-40 buffalo by 10 a.m. and their work was done. The skinners labored the rest of the day, while the hunters scouted new potential positions for the next day’s hunt.
At the peak of the buffalo hunting years (1871-1880), they would get $3.50 per average hide, and up to $50 for a hide with special extra-soft fur that they called a “velvet.” On October 7, 1876, J. Wright Mooar, one of the most famous buffalo hunters, shot a rare white buffalo whose hide is supposedly still owned by his descendants. There is no telling what price that would have been worth!
Okay, so sticks do work — as long as they’re kept short. But that’s not what some airgunners are doing. There are bipods (not just sticks, but actually bipods with mechanisms in them) on the market whose legs adjust out to 3 feet and more.That’s where they start to get shaky. Not all of them are shaky, but a fair number are. They adjust out too far for good stability. Not only are the legs shaky and bendy, but when the rifle’s rested the shooter gets into a forward-and-backward rocking motion that makes accuracy difficult.
This shooter is close to the ground. His bipod is extended no more than 18 inches, which is good for stability.
The legs of this shooter’s bipod are extended very far. It may be steady, but if the legs aren’t rigid in this position, the bipod won’t be. Also, it’s very difficult to control the “forward-and-back” rocking motion a setup like this invites. The shooter pictured here happens to be a wonderful shot, and his bipod works for him — but this would not be my choice.
Sitting higher is easier on the back
When I competed in field target, bipods were not allowed and you could only sit on a bum bag that was no higher than 6 inches. Times have changed and now the hunter class allows sitting on a backless stool of any height, plus the use of a support like a bipod. At the age of 67, I certainly need to use the stool, because getting up and down 20-30 times in a match would wear me out! I know there are others who feel the same as I do; so when I learned that stools and bipods were allowed, I thought about shooting in some matches again.
The stool is no problem. At the Pyramyd AIR Cup in Ohio last October, I sat on an empty plastic cat litter bucket that a lot of shooters seem to use. The height is 12-13 inches. And it’s perfect for me. It’s also very lightweight, so carrying it’s no problem.
And, I used the UTG Monopod. But, the way I used it was novel and different than anyone thinks. The way I use it, it’s actually steadier than a bipod!
How I use the monopod
I sit at nearly a 90-degree angle to the target. I’m right handed. When I sit down, the target is off my left shoulder. Don’t worry about the exact angle; sit so you are comfortable doing what I’m about to show you.
The first time I sit down, I have to adjust the length of the monopod to do what you’re about to see. After that, it never changes unless the terrain requires it.
After sitting, the first thing I do is anchor the monopod’s foot against the inside of my own right foot. I’ve done this on all kinds of terrain, both wet and dry, and have always been able to find a way to anchor the monopod this way.
First, I anchor the monopod foot against my own foot. In this picture, the target is to the right and I have to turn to my left to see it.
Once the monopod is anchored against my foot, I turn sideways to the left on my stool and rest the monopod leg against the inside of my left leg. This is a very important part of this method. When I do this, the monopod now becomes a very stable bipod! That’s the combination of its one leg and my leg, working together.
Here I’ve turned to the left, and now the monopod leg rests against the inside of my left leg. It’s much steadier this way, but we’re not done yet.
Once the monopod is against the inside of my left leg, I place the rifle in the v-rest on top of the pod. I place it with the stock back by the triggerguard. And this is where the magic happens.
When I lean into the rifle and monopod this way (pushing forward), they tighten up and stop swaying altogether! The rest becomes solid like a benchrest.
It may not be obvious, but I am leaning forward (to my left) into the rifle and monopod in this shot. Everything is now rock-solid! The TX200 is a natural air rifle for this since it’s insensitive to hold. You can even forget the rifle’s weight because the monopod is taking all of it!
It really works!
When I shot this way at the Pyramyd AIR Cup, I was able to print 5-shot groups that were 3/4 inch at 40-50 yards on the sight-in range. I felt like a crew-served weapon with this setup!
On day 2 of the field target match, when my squad partner, Pyramyd AIR saleswoman Ruth Kass, used the TX200 I was shooting instead of the Beeman R9 she had used the day before, she quadrupled her first-day score. The TX is a rifle that can be rested on things other than flesh without a negative impact, just like the Walther LGU and the Diana RWS 54 Air King. The R9 is hold-sensitive and cannot be shot this way with success, while those other rifles I mentioned are very insensitive to hold.
The camera adapter
I’ve talked all this time about the v-rest and its use with a rifle (and pistol — don’t forget that!), but a camera adapter also comes with this monopod. It has a threaded post on top to receive the threads on the bottoms of most cameras. I plan on taking my monopod to all the airgun shows this year to use as a steady rest for my camera. My other photography monopod sometimes collapses when I put 30-40 lbs. of downward pressure on it, but this one remains rigid. This monopod is now the only one I’ll use because of that one feature.
Oh, and here’s a camera tip. You can get a neat boom shot (high angle, looking down over a crowd) by extending the monopod as far as it will go, putting the camera into the automatic mode and using a 10-second delay! Sometimes, that’s the only safe way to get off the ground at a trade show.
I’ll continue to report on the monopod as I test other airguns. From time to time, you’ll see mentions of it. From this point on, though, you know how well it works and also how to use it to be steadier than most bipods.
Ahh..Now I I get it a sitting version of the Archer Stance when using a monopod. I had not thought of using it that way. You mentioned above that the man sitting using a bipod is unstable. Is there a stable way of using a bipod at that position?
Siraniko,
To stabilize a bipod adjusted that high you need to lock it with your body like I have shown here. Otherwise you will start rocking.
B.B.
So I guess it doesn’t work, if you attempt to hold the rifle loosely like an artillery hold, and maybe use your hand between the V-rest and the rifle? I can see how it might not “tighten-up.” Instead of the V-block, I could print a monopod hand rest for you on my 3D printer, BB! (I have some 3D printing for airguns stuff coming.)
I also wonder what might be possible if your method could be combined with some monopod design options to permit the addition of a tight shooting sling. I assume you’ll have your monopod with a camera mounted on it at SHOT. Let’s chat there. This is interesting!
-Cal
Cal,
That hold just might work, though I would think BB would have tried it. Let us see what his response is to this.
Cal,
I used the TX200 with the monopod because it isn’t sensitive to hold. You might be able to use the monopod with the artillery hold, but why do it if you own a TX? The point of all of this is to become as stable as possible, and the artillery hold is not a stable hold.
Your sling idea might work, but I didn’t try it. The way I describe the hold above, I can get into firing position is about 5 seconds from standing. That’s fast!
B.B.
BB
That’s getting into shooting position pretty darn fast.
I’m excited about trying it.
Thanks, BB.
Yes–I was thinking of a non-TX200 adaptation of your technique and the monopod.
BB
I have been using a bipod in my FT matches and have the exact issue with the rocking as you put it ,I call it swaying as it seems to be in the rhythm with my heart rate and breathing but never considered trying to lock it in place with my legs so I am going to try to shoot this weekend if the temps will come up some as it is supposed to be 16 degrees Saturday am and only get to the high 30s so I know 16 is too cold for me to be out in and if it does not warm up by 9;30 am when shooting starts I will wait till the next match.
But I am definitely going to try your advice with my bipod as well as the monopod I have and I think the monopod will be easier to steady as you have showed us here.
BD
B.B.,
Great article. I think one of these will be on my next P.A. order. I did notice that the one shown in your pictures appears to have a “T” shaped foot on it. Was that a proto-type feature that got dropped?
It was good to read the TX was in the “non-hold sensative” catagory. I must have read that but had fogotten it. I did a test of 4 pellet types with “artillary hold” and beginning to do the same 4 with a tighter traditional hold.
P.S. I see from a quick re-read I said, “NEXT P.A. order”,….well darn it anyways,…Edith was right,….resistance is futile!!!! 😉
Chris, USA,
The foot of my monopod looks like the one in the top picture.
B,.B.
BB
I like everything you said about how you hold the mono-pod. And makes me think I’m going to try something next time I shoot outside out of the breezeway. Oh by the way the high yesterday was 9 degrees above zero. And in the morning its suppose to be 9 degrees below zero. Yea its cold now.
But I think I will keep the legs strapped together on my bipod and try your mono-pod hold with it. And I use a 5 gallon bucket to sit on. And when I move to another spot to shoot my pellets and buddy bottle, targets and range finder go in the bucket along with tape. Or with less things depending on the shooting I’m doing.
And I enjoyed reading about the buffalo hunt. And yes that is something I try to do even shooting pellet guns to reduce report of the gun. Always try to point down or level. Never up unless necessary for other types of targets. You nknow the little furry ones or the feathery kind. its
Now how did that extra n get in my know.
And why did another sentence start with its.
See my phone thinks its trying to be smart tonight.
🙂
GF1,
It is a balmy 5 degrees here this morning. This is one of the benefits of living below the Mason-Dixon Line. I wonder how well a sproinger will work out there right now?
R.R.,
-8 here! I don’t know how the springer would work but I know that I would’nt work so well.
Just tried B.B.’s mono-pod hold with a pool cue. Very steady! You could try it with a broom handle as well just to get an idea of how steady it is.
Chris,
I don’t do so well anymore myself. That is why I suggested it to BB. Actually, I don’t have a chronograph or I would try it out myself.
Chris, USA
That’s a good idea about trying the mono-pod hold withe a pool stick or broom.
But I want to try it with my bi-pod with the legs hooked together. That way I can set the gun in the yoke or (Y) or whatever its called. The yoke on my bipod rotates freely 360 degrees.
That way if BB’s hold works for the bi-pod then I got a very versatile shooting stick. I can then use it as a mono-pod or a bi-pod.
RR
Don’t you just love this weather.
BB,
I second Calinb’s query concerning whether you tried resting your hand in the V-rest of the monopod? As long as the V-rest is not too uncomfortable on your hand or wrist, this should work. Maybe if thick, foam tubing such as pipe insulation was slipped over the arms of the rest to pad them some?
Another question I have, and an idea for a blog is, have you tested how much the cold can affect a sproinger? You could take one of the sproingers that you are testing, record the velocities inside where it is nice and cozy, and then record the velocities at the range after the sproinger has cooled down a bit.
RR,
I answered CalinB’s question.
As far as cold goes, I tested it with the Airgun Letter. A coiled steel spring rifle does lose about 40 f.p.s. when the temp gets to zero. A gas spring loses about 20 f.p.s. That’s will both guns being cold-soaked for more than one hour.
B.B.
RR
You been texting Buldawg or listening in on iur texting?
Me and him was talking exactly about that last night. He’s got a field target match coming up this weekend. And he said it was going to be cold. Then we started talking about how the cold may affect different powerplants.
One of the things I brought up was the nitro piston guns that are suppose to be stable and consistent in cold weather. Well that’s fine and dandy but what about if the steel of the barrel contracts from the cold. And what if the lead of the pellet. Maybe the cold will make the lead harder in the pellet and make it fit tighter in the barrel. Or maybe it will make the skirt harder and not expand out and seal to the rifling correct.
Thise things I would think would affect the performance of the gun.
Gunfun
We were talking about that last night in texts not on the blog so RR could not have read it. but I think you are right even if the extreme cold does not have a great amount of affect on the nitro piston operation the contracting of the metal parts of the gun could make a big difference.
Just so you and every here understands that animals and humans are the only things that suffer from wind chill as metal and inanimate objects do not get any colder than what the actual outside temp is regardless of the wind so if it is 10 degree’s outside that is the temp of the metal and/or wood would be on a gun and not below that temp as a result of the wind speed.
BD
Buldawg
I was messing with RR.
But you never know who could be listening in on these new smart phones.
You always say they are Chinese phones.
And yes the temperature has to make a air gun shoot different some kind of way. The tolerances have to change with temperature change.
Gunfun
You are right as our govt is listening to every call made in this country whether its a landline or cellphone looking for key words like bomb or attack or any number of a multitude that they consider to be associated with terrorist activity.
It is also very easy to build devices to listen in on cellphones with parts readily available from radio shack so he may have been listening without our knowledge.
BD
Buldawg
Or anybody.
Tom, where did you learn this shooting position using the monopod? Sometimes I try to use my camera tripod as a rifle rest, and I don’t think I can make it steady as your monopod!
By the way, I read you guys talk about the weather… 86ºF in the morning around here… Just in case you’re wondering…
Fred_BR,
Yeah — that’s what I hear about the southern hemisphere. It’s summer right now.
I didn’t learn this hold anywhere. I just figured it out on my own. I wanted to find a way to make the monopod stable, and this is what I came up with.
B.B.
Tom,
As a Brit would put it, Brilliant!
Do you find that the inside of your left thigh gets slightly sore by the end of the day?
Michael
Michael,
Not a bit. When I lean into the rifle, everything else seems to go in the same direction. I don’t think there is that much pressure on my leg.
B.B.
It is really brilliant!
So… how can we name this? How about “Godfather’s Stance”? Or “Gaylord Hold”?
Help me out here guys…
86 degrees. I don’t think I remember what that feels like.
Enjoy that weather that’s for sure.
🙂
Gunfun1,
I’ll have a cold beer for you!
Fred
Fred
I like cold beer.
🙂
And when it gets cold in my part of the woods this time of the year its wild turky time. Preferably the 104 kind.
🙂
gunfun
Oh how I wish I could drink now as the wild turkey does warm the innards quite well, but I prefer crown royal with some Mt dew mixed in for taste.
BD
Buldawg
Wild turkey 104 and Pepsi for me. I like the high performance stuff.
104 octane for me.
😉
Gunfun
In the cold temps we are all experiencing now I will not be picky as to what antifreeze I use to keep from becoming an ice cube that’s for sure. Turkey is good as that was our warmer of choice when out hunting years ago as well as moonshine that a friends dad used to make.
The best antifreeze that I have ever had was some that a buddies dad got when we were out deep sea fishing, he came across a old wooden barrel floating in the ocean and pulled it on board. it was still full and when he pop the wood cork that was hammered in to the top of the barrel it spewed out some brownish tinted liquid that just smelling would get you a buzz. We strained it thru some cheese cloth when we got back to port to catch the wood fiber that had been leached into the RUM over the years at the bottom of the ocean. his dad sent a piece of the wood to the Smithsonian for time dating and they said it was from some where in the late 1800s, so there was a huge storm the week before with huge waves and winds out at sea and it had apparently broke this 30 gallon wooden keg loose from the ship it was attached to and it floated to the surface for us to find. This rum I believe as close to 100 proof as you could get as it would burn on your finger with no orange flame at all just a pretty blue white flame and we would mix it 50/50 with coke and it only took one 16 ounce coke bottle full to get you plastered. If you drank it straight it would go down like water until you took your first breath after drinking it and I swear it felt like you could breath fire for several minutes.
BD
Buldawg
That Rum find is probably worth a lot of money.
And my friends always use to tease me that’s why you don’t never get cold. All that alcohol in your blood. Especially after the other night we had.
Of course that’s when I was younger. But I do have a few here and there but way nowhere like I use to.
And just remember drinking and writing can be just as bad as drinking and driving.
😉
Gunfun
Key words ” would have” as it has all been consumed long ago. but it was good while it lasted like I said a 16 ounce coke mixed 50.50 was all you needed to stay drunk all night long. It makes me wonder how Columbus found the new world if they were drinking that while sailing the high seas. I can also see how so many sailors became pirates as they were probably insane from the amount of pretty much pure alcohol that they consumed every day.
Yea I had my days also and have never passed out from being drunk like some do so I could drink most under the table so to speak with ease. But those days are long in my past after I woke up a couple times and had to go to the garage to see if my bike was there because I did not remember riding home. I have some very good angels is all I can say and my bike new its way home also.
I do have a crown and dew every now and then on special occasions also but never more that two.
Now I know why I am making so many mistakes spelling on the blog. LOL
BD
Buldawg
You just never know what could happen when you drink.
I’ve been trying out some of the Apple ciders for this kinda weather. Can’t say it’s keeping me any warmer but it doesn’t get that off flavor like beer does when it gets above 45 degrees and I would imagine it’s better than beer for you.
Wow, They jacked me up! He used a Mynx closure device to seal my right femoral artery, it’s designed to swell to 3 times it’s original size as it absorbs blood. Feels like I got shot by a very near miss and there’s now a golf ball in my groin! Then there’s the tape they covered the whole thing with that required an almost complete trim which is totally new to me. My expectations are plenty of stabbing pains a itching fo a couple more months.
OUCH!!!
Reb
I don’t believe they always drank their rum straight back then, but watered it somewhat. Although, like the early settlers of this country who were usually buzzed from drinking hard cider, etc., I don’t think those sailors were a sober lot.
Gunfun
Aint that the truth and I am just glad the Maker is not done with me yet.
Live and learn
BD
Fred_BR
I want to know if you have any extra unoccupied rooms as that’s my kind of temps and the wife would love a trip to get out of this cold. LOL
BD
Dog’s house is empty in the backyard! LOL!
Fred_BR
Well I guess the wife has to stay home then as she never has joined me in the dog house before so I don’t see it starting now LOL
BD
After our phone discussion last night I may be in the market for a .25 barrel for this Regal. It won’t do much for reducing the recoil but it would take advantage of the excessive power available and slow the velocity. But my rings should be here either Monday or Tuesday. They got caught up in weather related traffic somewhere in Ohio or Ida been installing them today. We’ll see what some good glass will do for it when that happens. Should be here when I get back from Abilene again.
Reb
I think a 25 cal barrel would as you say not affect the recoil at all but would possibly benefit from the power it is making and all you have to do is get one from crosman that fits a Benjamin trail 25 cal as it will have the sling loop on it as part of the barrel then you just transfer the washers and Chisel and bushing that holds the chisel in against the spring behind it. just apply some pressure to the chisel to allow the bushing to slide out of the barrel and then be careful releasing the chisel as the spring behind it is quite strong and just swap all parts from one to the other and the you can install a sling stud in the rear of the stock and be ready for a sling on it as well.
Hope all goes well in Abilene.
BD
Reb
Just saw this on the GTA and thought about you as it is what you want pretty much and thought you might be interested.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=81240.0
BD
Thanks for the link! I have saved it so I can set up an account when I get some time. I’m ready for this doctor to see what all’s wrong with my bones before he goes back in. Maybe he’ll go through the left side this time, Then I’l be walking like Frankenstien’s monster.
Reb
I was just looking thru there classifieds and saw it , it is only a 14 inch barrel but is what you were looking for in the custom shop except it is a SSP250 not a 2250 as the 2250 was setup with a special valve that used a small bottle attached at the rear of the air tube and used a regulator to give a lot higher shot count. I don’t believe you would ever find one of those for 100.00 bucks, but the SSP250 is the predecessor to the 2400 so it has the longer air tube and that one also has a longer barrel.
Here is a ASP2250 manual so you can see what I am talking about
https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203544270-AS2250XT-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2004-Current-
BD
Ah, the answer to my issue with weight ! Perfect ! I can use a M-1 Garand weight air rifle using a BiPod or a MonoPod. Now, If i can find the money for a TX200..Lol. You see Professional Hunters in Africa using BiPods.
Thank you, Tom and Edith…!!
Pete
“Old Town” Orcutt, California
Top O the morning (albeit a very cold one here in SW CT). BB, after seeing the pic of you with the TX200 and it’s lovely piece of factory wood I’m hooked!! Now, I’d really appreciate suggestions on a scope mount, since I’m not expecting to do much, if any shooting over 25 yards I’m considering a medium powered variable scope. If anyone wants to share their experiences, good or bad with scopes/and or mounts please feel free. Again if offline discussion is preferred my email is ragnar51atoptonline.net
Thanks again to all and stay warm Kevin in CT
Kevin in CT,
I always try to use UTG 2-piece mounts. That is what is on the rifle in this picture. They are high mounts and they work fine.
B.B.
B.B.,
Why do you prefer UTG 2-piece mounts?
Its not a trick question, but I thought you would prefer a 1-piece mount, and perhaps something made by BKL.
Thanks,
RB
RB,
Two-piece mounts are so flexible as far as positioning goes. One-piece mounts are rigid — they either work or they don’t. But with 2-piece you can move each ring separately, plus you can adjust the eye relief as you desire.
As far as BKL mounts go, I use them whenever necessary. There are still plenty of air rifles without good scope stop solutions, and I save the BKLs for them. Although I do have several BKL mounts, thanks to the generosity of AirForce, I keep them in reserve for when they are really needed. Because when that happens, nothing else will do.
B.B.
Kevin,
Wait until you see that piece of walnut up close!
IMHO, this is one of the best scopes you can get for the money.
/product/utg-3-12×44-ao-swat-accushot-rifle-scope-ez-tap-illuminated-mil-dot?a=3493
You will either need to use different mounts than what is supplied with the scope or use one of these also, which I highly recommend.
/product/hawke-sport-optics-1-pc-elevation-adapter-3-8-to-weaver-rail?a=4163
/product/hawke-sport-optics-9mm-11mm-dovetail-to-weaver-rail-7-2?a=5065
These adapters allow you to compensate for a considerable amount of droop, have a stop pin and have a lot of grip edge.
RR
Tx’s have droop?
Mine don’t.
If you start by centering the scope adjustments you will likely find your POI is low in relation to the reticle. You can adjust this adapter to bring your POI more inline with the reticle before you use the adjustment knobs.
RR
I always make sure my turrets are centered before I sight a scope.
I used the 2 piece AirForce scope rings without any adapter and I’m shooting a heavy 10 grn .177 cal. pellet even with my TX.
How does 17 clicks of up elevation sound to you from the center of turret adjustment.
That don’t sound like barrel droop to me.
I remember Chris, USA mentioned with his .22 cal.TX that he had to put 157 clicks of up elevation in his gun I believe it was. That would be closer to a barrel droop situation there.
Hmm maybe the bigger heavier .22 cal. pellet that Chris, USA TX uses needs more up elevation. Maybe that would make somebody think they had barrel droop.
I have the short one on my Edge right now with a Sun Optics 8-32×56. it allows me to use Weaver mounts and with the low power of the Edge I was able to adjust the adapter to compensate for drop and keep the scope adjustments pretty close to center. It is also a rock solid mount.
RR
Just curious because I have often thought of getting a Edge.
How many shots per fill do you get out of the small bottle? And how loud is the gun when it shoots. Do you think I would have any luck out to 50 yards with one.
I get about 100 shots per fill. I do intend to get a second tank/valve/regulator and tinker with it a little bit to try and up the power a little bit and I will also lengthen the tank from 9 1/2″ to 12″. I plan to put an 18″ barrel in it soon also. I have the trigger pull down to about 8 ounces with no over travel right now.
Normally, they are not very loud. All you here of mine is the slap of the hammer, a slight spring twang and the smack of the pellet. 😉
As far as 50 yards, I doubt you would have much luck with that range as it is right now. I have not had much time to fool with it with the scope mounted. I plan on using it for mini-sniping, but I think I will get a smaller scope. This one is just too big.
Hopefully I will have the chance to fool with it some in the near future, that is if I don’t put it back to original and sell it. I really am wanting to get myself a nice sproinger.
RR
Thanks for the info about the Edge. I think I could be happy with as shipped from the factory from what you described.
And the link I emailed you about the 300s has a button at the bottom that you click on that says translate. You don’t have to click English or German that is above the translate button. Just click translate and it will automatically translate to English.
Oh and the FWB 300s I got from you is shooting great.
😉
BB did a 6 part review on the Edge.
/blog/2010/01/airforce-edge-part-6/
RR
Thanks I will read it.
I don’t know anything about this, but this is a good price.
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=93332&adSort=&StartingAd=100&NumberOfPages=6
RR
Thanks. I’m going to email them.
Sorry, that particular stock is the beech stock.
Kevin in CT.,
I have the 3-12X44 that Ridge Runner recommened below, (1st in his list). I got a 1 piece scope mount and it works great. It does however come close to the scope bells so any adjustment will be to move the mount to the next scope stop hole. Mine is all the ways to the rear now of the 3 that are available.
B.B. is right, single rings would be more adjustable for eye relief. I may even get a set in the future.
Once again thanks to all for your answers. The 1 piece V. 2 piece scope mount discussion was very interesting and once agin I’ve picked up what I consider to be a very valuable piece of information that I doubt would be found in many other places. I’m not certain who will see this reply so I will also cross post it in today’s section
BTW does anyone know if the CT Airgun show is finished or not?
Thanks guys!! Kevin in CT
B.B.,
I’ve used cross sticks before, and there is definitely a technique to using them well. As you described, I tend to rock back and forth. Leaning forward seems to help.
I want to try your suggested monopod technique- it looks like a really good method. How interesting that anyone could have thought of this, but no one else did. It took mankind 30,000 years to put wheels on luggage, and a little longer to longitudinally brace a simple shooting stick.
I am concerned about padding the top of the monopod, especially for use with firearms that tend to bounce off of a hard rest.
Had a great afternoon yesterday. On my way home I stopped in a small gun shop. There was an unfamiliar, brand-new-looking break-barrel air rifle sitting in the rack next to a current vintage Red Ryder. I thought it was an inexpensive Chinese gun. Even after picking it up, I was slow to realize (I’d never seen one before) it was an FWB 124 with excellent metal and wood finish, metal trigger, 38,xxx serial number, San Rafael address and Beeman 1.5×4 scope. The iron sights are gone and a plastic muzzle brake covers the muzzle. I started reading your 15-part FWB chronicle (wish you would publish it), and discovered my piston seal is deteriorated, just as you described. I look forward to shooting it after its rebuilt.
Thanks for a great blog, and for growing my ability with knowledge and new shooting techniques.
RB
RB,
Leaning forward make a big difference in stability. And, with the monopod, it locks you in solid.
Look carefully at the top photo. It shows the V-rest on the right. The bar across the top of the V-rest is a tough rubber strap. So the rifle is laying on a rubber strap and protected from the other parts of the rest.
The strap has holes for adjusting the tension. Notice how my TX sinks into the V. It is about a inch off the bottom and totally suspended by rubber. If you look at Part 1 again, there is another picture of this.
Good luck with that 124! That is a wonderful find.
B.B.
Good score! And that’s one of my main reasons for joining the blog.Trying to learn the difference between a classic and something someone’s just way too proud of can be an expensive education.
Is that one of those blue ribbon scopes that it came with?
Not to be nosy but you gotta tell us what it ran so we all know just how good a deal you got there.
Congrats RB!
Reb,
Yes, me too. I’ve learned much from B.B. and fellow readers.
The scope is marked “Blue Ring.” I don’t know what that means.
A year ago I similarly purchased a neglected Beeman R7. The metal finish is in poor condition, but it is a pleasant shooter and I’ve had fun with it. I like old these old guns.
Hope you’re feeling better.
RB
Apologies for going off topic, but I’m looking at Pyramyd Air’s “Top 10” lists for a couple purchase suggestions and am having a hard time believing their #1 selling pellet was a .25–which makes me doubt all the other lists, too. Can you clarify? Also looking hard at the Hawke 4-12×50 on the scope list and wondering if you like the Air Force 4-16×50 you recommended the other day better. Mucho thanks!!
Hiveseker,
All I know is what I read. They haven’t told me anything. But you are right. No .25 caliber pellet could ever be their best seller, no matter how you cut it. They probably sell 100 .177 pellet tins for each .25 tin they sell.
Maybe they meant it was their best-selling .25 caliber pellet, and they worded it in a confusing way?
B.B.
HiveSeeker,
I sent your comment to Pyramyd Air’s marketing department. Turns out that the .25-caliber JSB really IS their top-selling pellet!
Because most big box stores don’t stock anything over .177 caliber, they don’t sell the larger-caliber ammo. If you want .22- or .25-caliber ammo, you have to go online. Looking at their list of top-selling pellets, you’ll see that there are only 3 .177-caliber pellets on the list. Six are .22 caliber.
They also told me that .177 Gamo PBA (alloy) pellets are believed to be the best-selling pellet in the U.S. Yet, that pellet is way down on the list for Pyramyd Air’s customers. Looks like Pyramyd Air’s customers tend to be hunters that use larger calibers, and they buy high-quality performance pellets.
Edith
Thanks, Tom and Edith. I actually thought of that after I posted the comment–maybe you just can’t get that pellet anywhere else? Nah! Who woulda thought?
I second Edith’s response. There are 218 reviews for that pellet, so somebody must be buying them. I soon will be myself. I just acquired a .25 barrel for my Talon SS.
The .25 cal JSB’s are good pellets.
But I’m stuck on the heavier pellets. My .25 cal. guns all like the H&N 31.02 grn. Barracudas the best though.
I fully intend on giving the Baracudas a try when I am ready. They have always been real good performers with everything I have tried them in, but so have the JSBs. You feed it what it likes to eat.
RR
You cant go wrong with the Barracudas. And the JSB’s for that fact.
Hi BB,
I have gotten my best accuracy with the bipod when it is low enough that I can put my elbows on my knees similar to the first picture shown. It is hard for me to get down that low with my big belly. I will try your position and see how it works for me. I do sit sideways to the target like you do.
I have never had a problem shooting light springers off my tripod or bipod. I do try to partially support the forearm with my forward arm. That may be why it works for me. My favorite springer is an old BSA Supersport Lighting which is approx. an R9 powered gun that weights about as much as an R7. If anything should be hold sensitive that rifle should be with the high power to weight ration. It is very accurate off a tripod.
David Enoch
David,
I understand, completely. My own belly was the reason I had to develop this method. It wasn’t until I saw people sitting on stools and using bipods that I knew I could shoot FT again. And then this monopod came along and looked like the perfect way to do it.
As you know, I’m no rifleman. Yet I managed to do okay when I used this monopod — plus for the first time in my life I enjoyed the match.
B.B.
GF1 You old lead foot
My wife played right into my degenerate sense of humor. She bought an old album by Queen just a while back. Every time I plug a starling, I play “Another one bites the dust “.
Got 4 so far this morning.
twotalon
That’s funny!!!
Same words go through my mind when I knock a grackle off of the songbird feeder.
Good shooting twotalon!
Wish there were more starlings around here – they have feathers that make really excellent hackles on small trout flies!
Vana2, I thought grackles were the migratory bird list and were no shooters.
Jim
Jim,
Here’s the latest gov’t news on the 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which I frequently reference because a number of Pyramyd AIR customer reviews tend to mention protected birds (and protected mammals, too):
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Updates “Blackbird” Depredation Order
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) has published a Final Rule that changes the regulation at 50 CFR 21.43 that allows control of depredating blackbirds, cowbirds, crows, grackles, and magpies. FWS has removed the Yellow-billed Magpie from the depredation order. The Yellow-billed Magpie is a species of conservation concern and has suffered substantial population declines. The FWS also has narrowed the application of the regulation from protection of any wildlife to protection of threatened or endangered species only; added conditions for live trapping; limited the circumstances under which depredation control may be done; and refined the reporting requirement to gather data more useful in assessing actions under the order.”
Here’s the pertinent quote from the Final Rule page linked above:
“A depredation order allows the take of specific species of migratory birds for specific purposes without need for a depredation permit. The depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows, and magpies (50 CFR 21.43) allows take when individuals of an included species are found ‘committing or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in such numbers and manner that they are a health hazard or other nuisance.'”
Edith
Edith
Thanks for posting that.
+1
Edith:
That you for the information. What I had been told was wrong. I read the information at the link you provided. A lot of verbiage to say go ahead and shoot them if they are a nuisance.
Thanks, Jim.
Hi Jim,
I’m in Ontario, Canada and Grackles are fair game at any time. I typically leave them be unless they commandeer the birdfeeder and start chasing away the songbirds.
What surprised me is that Red-winged Blackbirds are considered pests as well – I always thought of them as songbirds – I live by a 50 acre spring-fed beaver flood and we have lots of them here.
Here is a clip from the Ontario 2014-2015 Hunting regulations if you are curious…
5. Small Game
Resident’s licence tag to hunt small game $24.59
This licence tag is valid for a resident to hunt game birds (other than wild turkey) and game mammals (except black bear, caribou, deer, elk and moose). Under this licence tag you may hunt fox, game birds (except wild turkey), rabbits and hares in most areas, raccoons (though not at night), wolf*, coyote*, and black, gray and fox squirrels (but not red squirrels), skunk, opossum, and weasel. A small game licence tag also permits you to hunt American crow, brown-headed cowbird, common grackle, house sparrow, red-winged blackbird or starlings and other animals not scheduled under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 (e.g., groundhogs)**. You may also hunt on game bird hunting preserves with this licence.
Vana2
The poor starlings look so cold out there . So I am being kind to them by sending them to a place that is MUCH warmer.
Up to 6/6 now today.
twotalon
TT
Ha ha. I like that.
And another one’s gone.
🙂
GF1
up to 5 now. Wife is starting to grin instead of looking annoyed.
and an another one bites the dust !!!!
twotalon
TT
I forgot to ask. Ain’t it cold there in Ohio right now?
What gun you using for your starlings? Its apparently shooting in the cold if your getting those starlings.
Just wondering.
GF1
Shooting from inside with the patio door just cracked open . Just over 10 yds and windy. Up to a scorching 3 degrees. Shooting H&N Sport at around 600 fps from the S500.
twotalon
TT
Giving the S500 a work out today.
The starlings by me are brave. But not 10 yard brave.
Is your hawke buddy still paying you a visit?
GF1
He was around a few days ago looking for a handout, and I felt bad because of a lack of action.
The first starling I tossed out today drew a crow. It picked at it a bit, then gave up and left. Have plenty of starlings out in the front yard if my buddy shows back up. He will eat them frozen if necessary.
twotalon
TT
My two Hawk buddy’s are always hanging around.
And funny we are talking about the starlings.
My oldest girl just texted me. ( they are off school today because of the cold weather) But she goes dad I wish you were home today. I said why. She goes there’s at least 300 starling out in the back yard right now. She said if you were home right now we could eliminate some of them pesty starlings like we did the other day. And they are chasing the other song birds away
I just texted her back with a smile on my face and said but don’t worry we’ll get to do it again. Because they will be back.
🙂
I tried your method this morning after I read your instructions and it worked great! Close to being on a bench results.
George,
Thanks for the feedback!
B.B.
Going to try out the monopod idea!
I have a “too heavy to carry around” camera tripod that is going to have a leg amputated. Will top it with a piece forked hardwood fitted with a web and a carrying strap.
One of the officers at my range claimed that shooting sticks required great skill… And I am now convinced about technique of the monopod which I would not have believed otherwise. “Give me a lever and I will move the world” said Socrates or Aristotle. This turns out to be surprisingly topical in other ways.
I am returned from an amazing fact finding trip on behalf of shooting. On my airport shuttle to depart, the driver asked about my gun case. Then he told me that he was buying a Tikka in 30-06 for hunting. Impressive. The Tikka is supposed to be a lower priced version of the Sako rifles and even comparable in performance to the Arctic Warfare (AW) line. The rifle is about $900. Then the guy said that he was buying a $1500 scope to go with it! I thought the rule was that the scope is only supposed to cost half of the rifle. He didn’t even know the brand of the scope which was a recommendation of a friend, but he said it was called and Icon or something like that and that what he liked most was some kind of built in rangefinder.
Texas, Florida and other states are overrun by feral hogs and Hawaii is now being invaded by coconut crabs. They are armored behemoths that are three feet wide that have been seen walking down the street. Their claws can crush coconuts which is how they got their name. They are suspected of eating Amelia Earhart on the Pacific atoll where she landed and then scattering her bones making them difficult to find, and they are known to eat cats. You could get a firearm heavy enough to take them out, and no doubt an airgun big bore would do the job. But would it be possible with a .22 caliber airgun? I suspect that you would need to shoot for the joints just like that hybrid reptile-human creature that I was talking about. But the blog disposed of the titanaboa with no problem, so I have full confidence about a solution for this animal.
My range trip this time had the theme of the Eastern Front since I was wringing out my Mosin sniper rifle and Mauser for the first time. I ran 100 rounds total through both. They both did great at 50 yards, but performance rapidly fell off at 100 yards. I could do no better than 3 inch groups with the Mosin. One big problem is that I didn’t have my rear bag which raises a question a propos of today’s topic of support. Gun writers switch pretty freely between three and five shot groups for their tests, but at least they say what they are using. But they often don’t say if they are using a rear bag or not. B.B. is there a convention to use a rear bag for tests? It can make a big difference. I suspect I could have reduced group size by an inch. Otherwise, I failed to follow through pretty egregiously. It’s sort of like Jack Dempsey losing to Gene Tunney the first time and telling his wife: “Honey, I forgot to duck.” How could I make such a Day 1 error to the tune of $80? All I can say is that maybe the micro-movements and speeded up time scale of the shooting technique make otherwise simple things difficult and maybe the heavy recoil played some role. If not for that, I must be the biggest klutz ever to come up to the firing line. It was the same story with the Mauser but even worse. The trajectory is significantly steeper, and I was shooting way high until I adjusted. That recoil was like the Hammer of Thor. There wasn’t so much of a group size as a cloud. I couldn’t help thinking of the German officer from The Forgotten Soldier memoir who tells the author (with a petrifying expression): “You scum. You are not worthy of the arms you bear!” But I’m eager to re-establish myself which means I will have to figure out how to open my crates of surplus ammo.
Gunfun1, I don’t know if B.B. answered your question about the Mosin. It is the longest continuously serving military rifle that was created in 1891 and still going strong. The appearance is not impressive with its action that seems to have been cobbled together from two inventors partly for nationalistic reasons. It has an extremely stiff action; is very long in a 19th century style probably because it was designed for bayonet fighting; and uses a rimmed cartridge that was already obsolete in 1891. But now the Russian quirkiness takes over. The long barrel gives it a good sight radius. The weird two piece bolt has the effect of a floating bolthead that gives it surprising accuracy. It is built with Czarist rigidity to high standards. And with its loose tolerances, it is unfailingly accurate. It is also extremely cheap with 20 million copies made and is being called the Mauser of the current surplus market. I strongly recommend it.
I also made an unexpected trip to an indoor range to shoot the Sig-Sauer 9mm and the HK USP 9mm. Here I was treated to the gratifying sight of people trying to turn their firearms into airguns. Most of them were shooting at my 5 yard airgun distance. He he. Even more, I tried snap shooting and double-taps for the first time and found that my airgun training with my Walther CPSport translated almost exactly to the firearms. You had to feel for the people firing off those cartridges at great expense. I preferred the trigger on the Sig, but both guns were impressive.
In the taxi from the airport late last night, the driver noticed my gun case and asked me for advice on getting his first gun. His main criteria is that he wanted two barrels!? I got him to understand that there are three types of firearms–rifle, pistol, and shotgun. Then, I wrote down a bunch of different models. So, the trip came full circle. But when I didn’t have some bills to supplement the tip that I put on the credit card, he got into a huff and drove away without speaking. 🙂
On another front, my friend Lauren has a relation who is a veteran of the special forces, and she tells me that he has been converted to airguns. I’m reminded of B.B. leaving his stint as an armorer on Germany with access to all kinds of firearms, longing for an airgun upon discharge. So, the one thing we can teach the Special Forces is the wonders of airgunning!.
Buldawg, that is one impressive leather jacket. I think what you are calling road rash must amount to being skinned alive. I thought that when you break your tailbone that you can get paralyzed. I guess not.
Matt61
Matt61,
“One of the officers at my range claimed that shooting sticks required great skill”
Just because someone says it can’t be done doesn’t mean that’s how it is.
About 40 years ago, I told a friend about something I’d done (can’t even remember what it was). He said, “What made you think you could do that?” And I said, “I didn’t know I couldn’t do it!” That little exchange left quite an impression on me: Don’t give up just because someone else said it can’t be done. Someday, someone will do it — and just might be you!
Edith
Edith
Amen
Matt61
We talked about the Mosin quite a while back. Was it recently that we talked about something.
I’m telling you I’m getting old. The old brain ain’t what it use to be.
Matt,
You really need to start reading the older literature, because Pope and others have talked about the use of rear bags. Did you know that a rear bag will fit on the bottom of your stock so that as the bag moves back the muzzle moves down? The underside of most stocks is an inclined plane and rear bags are made to use it.
B.B.
Matt61
Yea road rash without any form of protection for your shin is basically having the top two to three layer of skin burned and peeled away from whatever surface you fall on. In my early days of endure bike riding which is now called dual sport but means a street legal dirt bike, I would use my elbows as skid pads to protect the bike from damage and sometimes wore the old Levis jean jacket which help some but was still no match for asphalt. I wore my badges of honor around like it was an insult if you let your bike get torn up before you had skin peeled off of you at some part of your body.
It was not till many years later that I discovered that leather was far more resilient to wearing holes thru it than Levi jean jackets were and I also found that there is a huge difference in bargain priced leather jackets and paying for the much better and higher priced jackets as at least they did not wear holes in the elbows when sliding down the asphalt. I have never heard that breaking your tailbone could paralyze you but I do know it hurts for many months. I have always had angels that were capable of keeping up with me in my riding endeavors and have protected me very well over the many year of riding on the edge of disaster at every turn. but that is what makes you feel alive and cherish the little things in life that most people go thru life never even knowing that it is there to experience every day. As I have said before Live every day like it your last because you never know when it will be and I want to have no regrets when my day has come.
I want to go out to my maker doing something I love be it shooting air guns or drag racing other crotch rockets on the street with my 77 Killerkawi or outrunning new Harleys on my 40 year old shovel head. We have only a fraction of time here on this earth and I plan to make the most of every day as best I can regardless of the risks or dangers involved in what I choose to do on any given day. its the way I have always lived by facing my fear head on and learning to conquer them one at a time till fear is no longer a ball and chain keeping me from enjoying life as I see fit because once you conquer a fear it can no longer hold you back from adventure and feeling truly alive.
BD
I was up fro Austin visiting my brother and enjoying the Summer weather in my tank top after all my scabs were long gone. I caught him staring at my shoulder and asked him what he was looking at. He replied”all those scars”, I quickly told him “I ain’t done yet”.
Scars are tattoos only with better stories!
Reb
Reb
You took the words right out of my mouth and being a teenager it was also an instant chick magnet as they always wanted to know if they hurt and how did it happen so you never had to break the ice so to speak as the scars did it for you. And yes they all have stories and are also battle scars as well, mine took till I was in my late twenties to completely disappear which was 5 to 6 years after I quite riding dirt bikes and by then with street bikes I had become enlightened to the benefits of a quality leather jacket and pants.
BD
Buldawg
We were just talking about hospital scars the other day.
We didn’t talk about the other scars. Or should I say battle scars. Yep got those too.
Most memorable was my jaw being wired together in 3 places from a motocross crash when I was young.
There’s only so much a helment can do for you when your on the ground and 4 or 500 pounds of 70 mph motorcycle and rider is flying at you.
Either way all no fun.
Gunfun
I was lucky in my dirt bike years as the only bad injury was a broken tailbone other than all the road rash or battle scars.
Yea an old open face helmet is not going to protect you jaw from crashing dirt bike landing on top of you that’s for sure.
I just got another seller for a B40 that emailed me and he had one that he had bought to go to some air gun repair school and learn to fix them and he said he paid 325.00 for it new from Mike Melick and it has two scratches on the top of the cheek rest of the stock and it has only been shot 20 times to confirm the repair/tune he did while at the repair class and would take 445.00 plus shipping for it LOL. Gabe told me today that they were only 250 new so the one I will get Monday I basically got the tune kit for free. I am still happy.
If I was going to spend 445.00 I might as well put another 200 with it and by a TX. I thanked him for responding and wished him luck in selling it , but do not think he will get anywhere near 445.00 for it new or otherwise.
BD
Buldawg
Well I know I sure wouldn’t be getting that gun. And I think you got a good deal on that one your getting. And you know I’m waiting to see how it shoots.
And I had one of the first full face helments back then out at the track. It cracked the chin gaurd right off the helment I was wearing. Knocked me out.
Gunfun
It must have been a very early full face and you got hit hard to bust the chin guard of the helmet out that’s for sure as I have seen plenty of Shoei full face helmets form working at Harley that were involved in wrecks and never seen the chin guard broken out , but have seen the top of the helmets cracked and split after wrecks
Yea I don’t think he will ever get 445.00 for a B40 and its not even perfect as it has scratches on the stock which the one I am getting does too but I saw pictures of it as did you to and the scratches on it are not bad or real noticeable. I am happy with the deal I got on it also and cant wait to shot it either. Its supposed to start raining here tomorrow afternoon and off and on for the next three or four days so it will be up under the porch shooting for me and I just hope it is not any wind with the rain. This next Saturday is supposed to be sunny and around mid to high 50s so I think I will take my grandkids hunting on my buddies land out at the river and see just how good of a hunter gun the B40 is as that is what he used it for and I know they will enjoy it quite a bit as they have been bugging me about it the last few weeks and the weather has just not cooperated.
BD
Buldawg
For some reason I didn’t get th e notification of your post.
But it was a long time ago and I think it was a Belle helmet or something in that way of spelling.
Yes hit hard and in the hospital for a couple weeks with broken bones and knocked out.
But Yea I believe you did good on that gun you got.
So has that porch shooting been working for you? At lest it’s better than being out in the direct weather.
Gunfun
yea you definitely hit hard to do that much hurt on yourself and bell were some good helmets back then but they still obliviously did not hold up good enough you on that day.
I have been doing ok shooting up under the porch as long as it not real windy so that it does not blow the rain in as I can sit on the steps and shoot off the back of a folding chair or the bipod either one and that is most likely how I will be shooting the B40 tomorrow. I do hope it is a good shooter also as I think it will be.
BD
Buldawg
If that B40 don’t shoot good you know what to do.
🙂
Gunfun
Yea I sure do and just will need to see the washer stack up you have come up with to make it shoot like a PCP.
But I think it will be very good just the way it is but we will know for sure tomorrow .
BD
B.B.,
This is what I had been doing to help stabilize my monopod. I would place the foot of the stick out in front of me and lean the top back towards me at roughly a 30 degree angle and let the V rest lean against my hand. This was from a standing position. It helped me a lot by removing a lot of the swaying but was nowhere near benchrest solid. I’ll definitely try your technique.
Another question. Don’t some of the targets in F.T. require you to stand or can you use a sitting position any time you want? I’ve only read about and have never seen a F.T. competition by the way.
G&G
G&G
That’s how I use my bi-pod. Yes I meant bi-pod.
G&G
In the Ft matches I shoot in there is a standing target and a kneeling target setup on the range for the hunter class which is what I shoot but all other targets are sitting on a stool of your choosing or on the ground
BD
Buldawg
This is probably going to post in the wrong place.
But about that link I posted for Chris. Its the only one at the time I could find that showed the inside workings of a scope with detail and explanation. And them scopes are out of my price range for now.
And yep I’m with you the Hawke scopes that we have are well worth more money then what they ask for them. And I just love the sidewheel and the1/2 mildot reticle.
Gunfun
I learned a good bit about the inner workings of scopes from that link and can see why some scopes cost so much and they are out of my price range as well unless I hit the lottery or win a huge sum of cash as I will never be able to justify 1000 plus for a scope with my old tired eyes.
The Hawke scopes we have are still far better than my eyes can see so throwing more money at a scope is not going to let me hit my POA any better than the hawkes do and I to like the half mil dot as well and my B40 will get a Hawke on it as well. I just have not decided if it will get the 3x12x44 or the 2.5x10x44 yet because which ever of the 2240s is the most accurate will get a Hawke also and the other will get the 4x16x40 leupold I have and then I have my Firepower and the Titan to get scopes for so they will probably get some of those Hammers like you got with the Vitamin as they are for magnum spring guns and quite cheap for what you get with the one piece mounts and all.
BD
Buldawg
And maybe you have a extra Lloyd tubed 2240 we can work a deal on.
You still got my Disco breech and 24″ Disco barreled 2240 right?
Gunfun
Yea I still got your 2240 breech and disco barreled gun and it is all together just waiting for a tube to screw into it .I send Lloyd my other 2240 tube with the valve in it to use to be able to pressurize the disco tubes like they would be in the guns to make sure they don’t leak and I should be hearing from him ant day now with an invoice for the tubes.
I will need to shoot them some to see if I want to get rid of one or not and that will depend on how accurate the are and easy to shoot easy as I think there lightness will be some benefit to me in the FT matches as I will not have to carry as much weight around . But I will let you know after I get some shooting time on them.
BD
Buldawg
Ok but seriously let me know if you want to part with one of them.
Gunfun
I will keep you first on my list but you are going to have to give me some time to enjoy them and see I will part with one or not and if so you will be the first to know.
BD
buldawg
If you do decide to sell one somewhere down the road I would like my Disco barreled one.
Just let me know. And no hurry.
Gunfun
You will be the first to know when or if I decide to get rid of one.
BD
The term ‘KISS’ comes to mind here. I too am 67 and always looking for a comfortable … well .. everything !
If you adjusted the rubber strap tight enough to actually suspend a ‘ springer’s ‘ stock and lightly touch both sides of the yoke to keep it centered would it not act like an artillery hold and allow the rifle to recoil freely ? You would only hold the mono-pod not the stock.
I too thought I had just about finished, well lets say slowed down, my Air Gun collecting. More than one of just about every type from a Wire Stock replica to an Armada but it seems we have entered a Golden age of Air gunning. I have surrendered to the need , no more anxiety.
Bob M
That is how I use my bi-pod (yes I meant bi-pod) when I shoot a springer.
When I shoot a pcp gun I rest the stock in the Y and hold the stock of the gun and the bi-pod of the gun.
I think experimenting with different holds for different types of power plants also needs to be tryed when shooting from a bipod.
Now I want to give the mono-pod a shot with various type powerplant guns to see if I like it verses a bi-pod.
And again another excuse to shoot my air guns more.
🙂
Gunfunn1,
Your above comment made me re-think my scope set up. While I did shoot the scope at factory settings, I did not “zero” it. I instead started to adjust the W/E one at a time untill I got on target/bull keeping records as I went.
The really odd part is that I somehow thought that each knob had 100 clicks of adjustment per full turn. When in fact, the elevation has 64 clicks per 1 full turn and the windage has 72 clicks per full turn. Confused? So am I.
At any rate, the rifle shoots fine and I can nail bulls more often than not. To re-calculate, I moved the elevation 87 clicks up and the windage 65 clicks left, (from 173/93) previously stated.
Above, you mentioned that you make sure your turrets are centered prior to adjustment. How do you do this? There is no scale below the turret knobs. Can I assume that the scope was centered at the factory? Both turrets were locked at zero when I started.
Or,.. did I zero the scope without knowing what I was actually doing?,… and,….just leave it alone and re-set the knobs to zero and call it good?
Where the scope is set at the factory seems to dictate how much knob movement will be required at zeroing time, would it not?
Any opinions appreciated, thanks, Chris
Feeling really stupid ’bout now,… 72 clicks per turret per full turn.
And while I am at,…why does the the W knob go from 0-9, (each way), with 4 clicks per # and the E knob goes from 0-18, with 4 clicks per #, but, (only reading one direction?)
Chris, USA
What centering the turret will do is tell you how many clicks you are from bottoming out your adjustment on your scope.
What I believe is when your gun will hit on target at your zeroing distance. And you are close as possible to the center of your turret adjustment. You will be closer to that true line of sight we talked about with trying to make your gun shoot with the least amount of hold over and under.
What the turret adjustment will show is how much you are off from the true centerline of the scope. In elevation you can compensate for holds for different distances. And also if your scope is not true to side to side mounting to barrel alignment. If your off on side to side mounting you will see your point of aim move more and more away from your zero as you move in closer or farther away. And also you want to keep the scope level as possible to keep cant out of the equation.
And centering the turrets is easy. Just adjust all the way up on your elevation then start counting clicks as your turning down till you stop. Then just come back up half the amount of clicks. Do the same for your windage. Adjust allt way to the left till it stops then count your clicks as your turning to the right. When you stop count your clicks back to the left half of that amount.
Now your reticle will be at true center of your scope. So now you will be able to see how far from true center will be when you sight back in at your determined distance. But pellet weight and the guns power will make a difference of how far you could be off from the center of the scopes adjustment. So there’s some more things to be aware of with air gun shooting. Just letting you know what I have seen.
Gunfunn1,
Can you go too far out,(W) or too far up,(E)? Or do the knobs get stiff and at that point you know you are at the max. up and right?
It sounds easy, (but would’nt I end up right back to where the scope is now?) From what I understand,… adjust center as you say and then adjust knobs to zero in on target/bull. Once bull is achieved, reset zero indicator on knobs and done. Right?
Chris, USA
You will come back to where you are now if you go back and sight in. Or close to it.
The only thing you will find out is if the scope came out of the box with the turrets centered. If you center them like I said and then go out and sight your gun in. If you end up with the same amount of clicks that you have now then you know the turrets where centered out of the box. But now if you sight the gun in and you are a lot more clicks away then you know the turrets weren’t centered from the box. And you now know you are farther away from your true line of sight. That means your optical center is not true. So if you do use mildots then they could be not true to the optical center.
Its just away to see if your scope centerline is mounted parallel to the barrel centerline. If its not then you will get poi ( point of impact ) differences verses poa ( point of aim).
So if you hit a 1/2″ field target kill zone at 15 yards and try to hit out at 40 yards your left or right could be off enough to miss that 1/2″ kill zone if you don’t have your scope parallel to the barrel.
Maybe I ain’t explaining clear. Sometimes hard yo get the wording right.
Oh and usually the turret will fill the same till it bottoms out. So don’t force them. When they stop it should be that last click then done.
Gunnfun1,
Thank you. I get what your saying. I can re-do the set up but since I am only doing 13.7yds. indoors now, I think I will wait untill I can get outside and do a 20yd. sight in and do it at that time.
As for the turrets, yes, I would asuume that once the turrets are all the way down and left, the springs would be bound, and you would stop.
My concern was for up and right…..I fgured the springs would be relaxed at that point and thus much harder to “know” the stop point. I mean,…could the knobs come out of the scope at that point or is there other stops that would prevent that? If they have the same feel as when down and left, then no problem.
Chris, USA
I don’t know if you seen this the other day when I posted it. But it shows pretty good how the turrets work and also some other things check it out. And its a direct link. You don’t have to down load anything. Let me know what you think.
http://www.opticstalk.com/what-makes-swarovski-better_topic19469.html
Gunfunn1,
Thank you. Checked it out quick. Looks good! Saved to favorites.
Gunfun
Thank you for the link to the scope erector spring system and I now can see why some scope cost as much as they do and I just wish I could afford a Z5 or Z6 scope. But that would be more than two months worth of bills. Don’t get me wrong as I would own one if it was at all possible but my own accuracy is going to have to improve by leaps and bounds to justify the price for that much quality.
Our hawke scopes work as good my eyes do if not better so since my eyes are only getting older I doubt they will ever be up to what advantage a 1000 dollar plus scope will give them in terms of hitting what I aim at but it is always good to understand the difference between good scopes and great scopes and what makes them great.. Very cool info and I have learned my new lesson for the day.
BD
Chris, USA
Yep.
GF1
You are even confusing me now.
twotalon
TT
It will all be ok.
Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.
😉
GF1
I think that 2 beers will be better.
twotalon
TT
It seems it would be a good night for that.
I think I’ll drink two beers for you and two for me and I’ll call you in the morning.
Hi Chris,
The Brits have refined airgunning to a fine art and have all kinds of good information documented.
If you do a Google search for: BFTA Scope Setup Manual – Updated by Maestro
…you will find a well-illustrated and detailed manual with the info you are looking for.
Hope this helps!
Vana2,
Thank you! Notes taken and will check out.
Chris
Yup, good info there – spend so much time on the British sites I am starting to pick you their expressions.
TTFN 🙂
(Ta Ta For Now)
Vana2
You read that also.
😉
And I should say that I shoot my spring guns similar to what you say from a bi-pod.
I don’t use a strap I just rest the stock in the Y of the bi-pod and hold the Y not the stock. So that way the gun can kind of move when it recoils similar to the artilary hold.
Gunfun
I just got my tracking number for the B40 so its on its way and it was shipped priority 2 day mail thru USPS so that means it will be here either Saturday or Monday. The mail gets here between 3 and 4 pm so I will not get it before the FT match Saturday, but it will give me a month to get used to shooting it and do any tuning to it if it needs any. I may get you to email me a sketch of how you stacked the rubber and steel washer in your TX if it has more recoil than I am happy with. I may send you the spring to cut and polish the ends as I don’t have access to a good sander that will make a good flat surface on the end of the spring after being cut unless you know how to do it with a hand grinder and keep the spring face square to its length when grinding the cut end flat. I can deal with the polishing as I do have a granite flat stone that is 12 inches square.
I will wait and see how it shoots first because with the vortek kit and o-ringed piston it may be very close to your zero recoil TX as it is.
That brings me to another decision since I now have a good spring FT gun on it way to me. I am rethinking the Firepower/hatsan spring guns purpose from a FT gun to my 22 cal backyard plinker/hunting spring gun by upping the spring pressure to 125 or 130 bar for maximum power rather than least recoil and by a 22 cal barrel for it from crosman for 20 bucks shipped. It should make a pretty good magnum spring gun especially if I either shim or button the rear of the piston or I was thinking of making a bushing from the leftover delrin I had when I made the spring guides for my B3s and use it to make a bushing that will fit over the front end of the spring housing so that the inside diameter of the piston rides on it and cannot touch the compression chamber walls when cocked and fired.
Which do you think would be the best route to take to keep the piston from scraping on the compression chamber walls in operation.
BD
Buldawg
The TX uses A groove cut in the front and back of the piston that uses a split type plastic ring. Kind of like a piston ring. I like that better than buttoning because it has contact surface support all the way around the piston and bore. Not just in 3 or 4 places like buttoning does. And its a lot easier to machine grove than it is to drill 4 equally spaced 90 degree apart holes to the same depth and then have to make 4 pins that are all the same length. So it would be a groove and ring for me. That’s what we do at work also on sliding sleeves.
And you can use the flat surface of the side of a bench grinding wheel to square your spring end back up. just make sure you got a cup of water to dip the spring in. Don’t try to grind it all at one time. but each time you grind a little more stop and cool it before you go again. that way you wont take a chance of weakening your spring.
And yes I can draw you a diagram up of the pieces and locations that I used for my TX tune.
Gunfun
I had not thought about a bench grinder which I do have and I can use a 2×4 to lay the spring on to keep it perpendicular to the grinding stone as I do it and yes I am very familiar with the water cooling to keep from over heating it and allowing the metal to change color. I have also used oil to do the same thing, when working already hardened metal parts.
I would like a sketch of your washer layout and if you wrote it down what the length of your spring was after you cut it since the B40 uses the same tune kit as a TX it should be the same spring as well. I will shoot tit some first to see just what the recoil is like as I am not sure which vortek kit he has put in it, but since he said it was a hunter gun not a closet queen I would imagine it has the non 12 fpe kit in it. It would most likely be easiest to draw a layout of your washer stack and scan it with a copy machine and email it to me so I can print it out..
I will chrony it as well Monday if the mail gets here in time before it gets dark but I am happy now as I could have put out a WTB for a TX but when I get a TX I want it to be new not used. I have parts listed now to start my TX fund with or LGU but when it gets to that amount I will decide then which it will be but that is going to be a little while.
Is it Monday yet as it is my B-day Thursday and it is going to be a great early present to myself as well as the benji titan 22 that the guy finally got back to me about since it was listed on the 29th of December, I guess he must have been away for the holidays. So I guess I get two guns for my B-day, boy I have been good. LOL
BD
Buldawg
I didn’t get email notification of this post either.
Yes I will draw you something up. Probably not tonight though.
And the spring legnth measurement may not be the same for the components you use.
Just make sure that when all pieces are assembled that when the spring and components are relaxed that you have 1/2″ freeplay that your spring can move. That’s what reduces the rear recoil. The front recoil is reduced by the stacking of garden hose and flat steel washers. And I still need to order me another piston for my TX and lighten it.
When we talked early the starlings were invading again. And they are getting sly now. The starlings were mixing in with the robins. I won’t shoot robins so maybe them starlings are smart. And my Hawke scope sure helped me identify real quick.
But the starlings definitely don’t like my TX and Hawke scope combination thats for sure. 🙂
Gunfun
The email notification most likely did not get to you because my replies went to spam first before you got them.
No rush on the sketch as I am going to shoot it as is for a bit just to get familiar with it and see if it needs any real tuning done to it as it may be very good already.
So the starling are learning to camouflage themselves and try to hide in the other birds that makes it even more of a challenge to single them out a pick them off like a sniper one shot at a time.
Yea the hawke scopes are definitely good one and I found that at budsgunshop.com you can buy a HK 5135 scope for 164 plus 10 shipping that’s the 6x24x44 1/2 mil dot scope that’s a great deal.
Bd
Buldawg
The starlings do the darnedest things. But that’s the first time I ever saw them mix in with the robins.
Is that Hawke scope a side wheel scope?
Gunfun
The scope is the top off the varmint line and yes it is side focus and is 210 to 220 bucks most everywhere else. They don’t list any of the other varmint series but if they are not in stock they don’t show them and a couple time when going to their site they had the ones that we have listed but out of stock and I called about them and was told that they do not know if they will get them back in stock or when but to just check every few days to see.
So if the top of the line is 164 then the 2.5x10x44s should be around 100 bucks or less. so just put the link in favorites and check every few days to see of they get the ones we like in stock.
BD
Buldawg
Will do thanks.
Thanks for the report BB. I’ve been following your blog for a long time and I always find your posts informative.