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Education / Training 2015 Findlay airgun show: Part 1

2015 Findlay airgun show: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

This report covers:

  • The show begins
  • Grab ’em when you see ’em
  • Something for everyone
  • Hot show
  • New book coming
  • Look, but don’t touch!
  • In the aisles
  • Pellets!
  • More to come

Intro sign

The show begins

It was good to see the old gang, again, at this year’s Findlay airgun show. Findlay is a show that combines the old with the new, and you never know what will walk in the door. I sat at Dennis Quackenbush’s table, so I’ll begin there.

Dennis usually doesn’t have big bore guns to sell at the show, because he’s busy filling orders all the time. But at this show, he had 3 of them — one .458 and two .308s. These were guns with extra-long barrels that nobody had ordered, so Dennis could sell them without pushing anyone back on his list. All 3 sold in the first 42 minutes after the doors opened at 9 a.m., and one was sold while a second customer was on his phone trying to decide whether or not to buy it. Before his call was finished, the gun sold. Folks, if you see something you like at an airgun show, buy it. And if you think you want to buy it, never set it down until the deal is made.

Grab ’em when you see ’em

Which brings me to my second story. I was cruising the hall early in the day, looking for a gun or guns to write about when I saw it. At Don Raitzer’s table, a blog reader was contemplating buying a vintage HW 35. He finally set it down and walked away.

But this was not just any HW 35. This one is either an E or a Luxus model (I think), with a Bavarian-style walnut stock and an extra-long barrel. In other words, it’s a very desirable HW 35. So, the moment he left the booth, I bought the rifle. It’s an airgun that has been on my short list for several years. Some of you readers have been asking me for a review of a 35, and this one was not only priced very reasonably, it’s also a model that’s not seen in the U.S. that often. I plan to test it and then most likely tune it and test it again. Most HW 35s are buzzy and underpowered. I plan to bring this one back to spec (about 750 f.p.s. with lighter .177 pellets) and get rid of as much of the buzz as I can.

Weihrauchs are much easier to tear apart than that Diana 45 I just did, so this should be a walk in the park. This is the second or third HW 35 I’ve owned, but I never had this variation before. It’s decidedly European, with the Bavarian-style stock (which I will explain in greater detail when I start the review), and I’m excited to test such a classic breakbarrel. Remember — the HW 35 was one of the 4 Horsemen that ushered in the age of high-velocity spring rifles.

Something for everyone

Speaking of something neat, I remember my late buddy, Mac, loved youth model airguns. Something about their diminutive size just captivated him. Well, it turns out that our blog reader Eric Jones likes them, as well. He found 2 different rifles at this show. I will not embarrass anyone with the price he told me he paid for one of them, but 2 people could have seen a 3-D movie for the same money! Both look like copies of the Diana 23. One was made in Spain, and the other was made in Japan. Both appeared to be of the same quality as the Diana guns. Eric says likes to collect these youth guns from as many countries as he can find. He plans to tear these two down and tune them.

Eric Jones
Eric Jones was thrilled to find this Japanese copy of a Diana 23 breakbarrel at the show.

While we’re talking about super buys, here is one that happened right under my nose. A young man walked up to the table next to mine and found a vintage Diana 36 in the rack. He then came over to my table and told me about it. He thought the gun was in rough cosmetic condition. He then asked if $35 was too much to pay for a Diana 36!

The rifle turned out to be a Milbro 36 variation that has a safety switch, and the condition was not as rough as he supposed — the bluing was just shot. I would have bought it if he hadn’t, but he did — so another good deal was made. But seeing that airgun so close to me made me look closer at the table ajoining mine.

Sitting on that same table was a new-in-the-box Daisy 499 that sold for $80 a few minutes later. Ironically, I’d advised another man earlier that same day to use a 499 to train new shooters, but I never knew there was one that affordable in the room! This one sat 5 feet from me until the very end end of the show!

Daisy 499 box
I sat next to this new-in-box Daisy 499 throughout the show and then watched it sell for a very reasonable $80.

And speaking of good deals — how about $125 for a Diana 27? I saw it when I walked into the show in the morning, and I almost bought it on the spot. If I hadn’t previously owned 8 other model 27s, I’m sure I would have. No doubt that one didn’t last long. Findlay is a one-day show that draws a large crowd, so you have to act when you see the deals.

Hot show

When the doors opened to the public at 9, the aisles filled with people and it was busy the rest of the day. Findlay is so well-known in the airgun community that there were even people from Canada in attendance!

Crowd shot
Fifteen minutes after the doors opened, the hall was packed for the rest of the day.

People will often drive for several days to attend a good airgun show. One of the dealers at Findlay had attended our Texas airgun show last September, and he told me he was so impressed by the crowd there that he intends coming back this year on Saturday, August 29.

There are precious few airgun shows in the entire world, and the majority of them take place here in the United States. You can see more airguns on a single table at one of these shows than are typically present at an entire gun show, so it’s well worth the effort to attend. I met folks from New York, South Carolina, Texas (besides me), Missouri, Pennsylvania and other states outside of Ohio, so you know this show has a good draw! The time to make hay is when the sun shines, so don’t pass up an opportunity to see an airgun show if you possibly can!

New book coming

Enough lecturing — for the moment. In the aisles I ran into Larry Behling from New York. He’s an airgunsmith who repairs Daisy BB guns. He is also the man who promotes the airgun show in Baldwinsville, New York, which takes place every third weekend in July. But important to this story is the fact that he’s the man who wrote the book on BB machine guns.

Larry is now finishing a book of Philippine CO2 guns. I’ll tell you when it comes out and how to order one. I know there are many readers who are interested in these curious, almost-homemade airguns. He had a real odd one on his table at the show, and I photographed for you. It’s a 20-gauge single-shot air shotgun, and it was for sale.

Behling Philippine gun
Larry Behling displayed this unusual Philippine 20-gauge air shotgun.

Later in the day, Larry found another scarce Philippine CO2 gun at the show and shared it with me as the show was closing. This is a model he hasn’t seen, yet. He thinks this one was made by the well-known Philippine maker LD, but it will take more research before he knows for certain.

unusual Philippine gun
Behling found this odd Philippine airgun at the show. He hadn’t seen one like it!

Look, but don’t touch!

I walked the aisles of this show a lot, looking for strange airguns, but sometimes the guns came to me. One was a super classic Beeman R1 that was stocked by master stockmaker Gary Goudy. Goudy is a contemporary of Al Biesen, and his stocks have similar classic lines. This rifle stock is 100 percent barred walnut, which is as rare as curly maple with the same amount of figure — and even more costly.

While I photographed the rifle on my table, a dozen people stopped to admire it. That’s how you know when something’s a classic!

Gaudy R1
The wood on this Goudy-stocked R1 looks good enough to eat!

Of course, there were hundreds of airguns that were priced more conventionally. I saw a couple FWB 124s on tables, and Kevin Hull had no less than 3 or 4 Diana 48 sidelevers and a model Diana 54 that looked great. Kevin also had a Theoben SLR 98 on his table. It wasn’t cheap, but where else are you going to get one?

In the aisles

While I was talking to someone in front of my table, I saw a Diana 70 or 72 youth target rifle walk by. This looked like a bluebird that just walked in the door. I never saw it again, so probably someone else owns it now. I also examined a Diana 75 target rifle that the owner priced at $350. He said the seals were fine, and I could see that the target sights were complete, so this was a great buy that was just walking around. If you wanted something more powerful and modern, you might have been interested in the .22-caliber Theoben Eliminator that walked up to my table.


Unlike some airgun shows, there were lots of pellets for sale at this one. People who go to an airgun show instead of a discount store don’t want to shoot discount-store pellets. The venue of the show is a guarantee for pellet sales — something many dealers fail to recognize. But at Findlay, you had a good choice of ammo and CO2 cartridges.

More to come

I’ll stop right here, but there’s a lot more to show. There’s one airgun that will have you history buffs (Kevin) drooling. And this is also a toy gun show. Next time, I’ll show you some of those, too.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

96 thoughts on “2015 Findlay airgun show: Part 1”

  1. Nice report, thanks for bringing it to those of us that couldn’t make the show.

    Where can we find a comprehensive list of shows across the USA?
    Or is there such a list?


  2. The 20 gauge shotgun I am asking my friends help in identifying it but from the bolt it looks like it was made in Northern Luzon where they favor that type of bolt arrangement to my knowledge. The other airgun I don’t think it was made by LD. It has the style but none of the engravings we usually see associated with the ones sold locally. The collapsing stock was very popular here to keep the overall length as short as possible for transport. You don’t happen to have a picture of the other side would you?

  3. We have identified the shotgun pictured and it was made by MMB in Pampanga. Relatively rare as that only a few are made every year. Please remember that for all intents and purposes our airgun industry is mostly a cottage industry as Lioniii described usually made within a 2-car garage size workshop with nothing but handtools, a drill press and a lathe.

    • I used to own one of those air shotguns in Manila. Bought it at a sporting goods store at a mall for about a hundred bucks. It was a single-shot, bulk-fill CO2 gun with an aluminum receiver and a 40 inch, stainless steel, seamed tube barrel. It used two inch sections of stainless steel tubing for shells that you could load and wad any way you wanted. The shells loaded via the bolt-action breech port, and cocking the valve striker was through a small side lever on the right side of the gun. There was a “slide-action grip” that was really a fixed, separate forearm stock. The thing could pattern #9 shot into a 3 foot x 3 foot square target at 50 yards. These air shotguns were mostly used for hunting birds while they were perched, grazing or swimming. Too heavy and unwieldy to swing around for shooting at birds in flight. I have heard that some of these guns have served on guard duty at fishponds against harvest poachers. Not an advisable practice however, as the poachers usually come better armed. Overall, the design was reliable and robust. These airguns are generally known as “Pampanga airguns” as derived from the province they were produced in. I never saw “MMB” stamped or engraved anywhere on mine. Another garage/machine shop special. In spite of the lack of formal engineering, scientific testing, as well as questionable materials sourcing and shoddy production quality control, I have never heard of any catastrophic failures of these designs. Even with all brass models. Perhaps it is because bulk-fill CO2 is a relatively low pressure system that precludes these airguns from grenading on you.

      • Lioniii,
        With the new gun law that removes airguns from firearms but still in a gray area there are more backyard tinkerers fooling around with airguns. Now they are playing around with HPA. Fortunately with the advent of social media they are connecting with other airgun experimenters and have cautioned each other regarding choice of materials and methods of attachment. So far there have been no locally known/documented incidences of failure. The only one that was seen posted was that of somebody who decided to really cut corners and used a tank rated for CO2 as a HPA vessel on an AirForce knock off. Near as we can tell the incident happened in some other SouthEast Asian country.

  4. BB,

    OK, here’s the deal. When you tire of that HW35, you are to box it up and ship it to me. Enclose a note with the price on it. The HW35 is at the very top of my short list.

    • RR,

      It will be very interesting how the 35 fares in BB’s test. I hope it will do well. The rifle screams CLASSIC! I really hope it produces one (ragged) hole groups at 25 meters…..and I hope it will also do well at 50 yards.
      Ill buy an other airgun next year (the mrs. Doest know yet). It has to be accurate and smooth. Being a Weihrauch addict, it probabley will be a hw 30s (r7) or a hw35e. The walther lgv is also an option, but its more expensive than the Weihrauch. So I hope the 35 will come close to the Walther. The diana-rws new gasram series (n-tech) look very promising too. So maybe BB’s 35 will decide what rifle we buy:)

      BB…. theres a lot of weight on your shoulders now!!!!

      • Hi dutchjozef,

        I am most impressed with my Weihrauch PCP but have never had an opportunity to try one of their springers.

        A friend of mine, new to guns, is developing an interested in shooting so I thought that a quality .177 caliber springer would be the best thing to start with.

        I have read that some Weihrauchs are easier to shoot (less hold sensitive) than others. Could you recommend a model that has a moderate cocking force and is suitable for casual target shooting/plinking at ranges less than 20-25 meters.

        Any other brand/model recommendations for a good starter rifle would be appreciated. The emphasis being on ease of use and accuracy.



        • Vana2

          For accuracy and ease of use, youll have to look at the mid-powered rifles: the weihrauch hw30s and the Weihrauch hw50. These guns are also available in the us under the beeman-brand.
          The hw30 is the beeman r7
          The hw 50 is the beeman r8.
          The beeman branded guns are more expensive and have no iron sights, but they come with a nicer stock. Internally, the beemans are exactly the same as their Weihrauch counterparts. So…. the Weihrauchs are cheaper and have those phenomenal iron sights with 4 interchangeable notches and 5 different inserts.
          Both the hw 30s and hw 50 have the famous record trigger…they dont come any better. The weihrauch hw30mk2 and the hw50mk2 DO NOT have the record trigger, what ever the price may be…. you dont want to buy them.
          The hw30s is smaller than the hw50 and also less powerful. But the hw 30s cocks easier, shoots more smoothly, is lighter in weight, has less recoil and up to 20 meters its the best gun money can buy. The 30s will shoot between 650 and 700 fps in .177. To get you started: feed them match grade flathead pellets, or jsb rs, or h&n ftt. By now, you already know what gun Im gonna advise:
          The weihrauch hw30s/beeman r7

          There are more guns suitable for the uses you mentioned, but I narrowed things down for you. If you have any questions or need some advise, just let me know.

          • Dutchjozef

            Thank you for your comments. I live in Canada so the HW30S is available is the regular and the “non-PAL” 495 fps versions (both with the record trigger) which does not require any permits.

            I like the fact that it comes with iron sights installed so it is ready to shoot right out of the box (after a cleaning and check-over). I can fit a scope for my friend once he becomes familiar with the shooting cycle and progress past the minute-of-a-large-tin-can accuracy level. 🙂

            Thanks again,


            • Vana2,
              Youre more than welcome!

              Gotta warn you though…… you’ll probably sight in the 30s for your friend. After you shot it…chances are youll buy one for youself too 🙂

              The rifle comes with a small little white package, probably tied at the triggerguard. Do not trow it away….it contains the 5 inserts.

              • Yes, you are right. I will have to be careful. I am fond of my Weihrauch PCP and will likely be tempted to get a springer as a mate for it. 🙂

                Thanks for the heads-up, will watch for the little white package.

            • Vana2,

              I’ll give a hearty second to Dutchjozef’s recommendation of the Weihrauch HW30S. Before you or your friend orders, make certain it has the Rekord trigger. As everyone points out, it is expensive for a lower-powered springer, but the workmanship and engineering make it worth it.

              I find that even my HW30s benefits from the artillery hold, so be sure to practice that. At 10-15 meters flathead, “wadcutter” pellets like the RWS Hobby are great, but for 20 meters I would also try RWS Superdomes and Crosman Premier Lights.


              • Michael,

                Thanks for you vote of confidence on the HW30S and the pellet suggestions! The shop I deal with specifically mentions the Rekord trigger in the product description so we are good to go.

                I sent an email with some links to my friend so the ball is in his court now. Hope he decides on one as he has made several offers to buy my FWB124 which is not for sale! Might be interesting to compare the two rifles.

                Myself, I half-thinking of getting a TX200.

                Good shooting eh!


                • Vana2,

                  TX huh? I got some stats. on that, but if I remember,..you shoot competative,..so you will want a .177 I imagine. Sorry, no stats. on .177. It is a “beauty” though.

                  Was going to E-mail you this AM, but the E-mail was acting wierd, plus I had to head to work. Will do though,..for sure.

                  Thanks again,….Chris

      • I’m the dummy that sat the 35 down and I’ll not do that again. I did buy the Walther LG 55 from Don for a good deal. I will probably do a tune on it in the near future to bring it up to specs. I can’t for the blog on the 35 tune, to me that will be better than a good movie.

        • George,

          Now I have your first name! If you told me at the show I forgot it. Ever since a hospital stay a few years ago my short-term memory has been pretty bad.

          I did promise you first right of refusal if I decide to sell the 35. I have a lot planned for it, but I already have a glut of guns, so it is very possible that I will turn it loose. If so, you get first dibs.

          Johnny Hill has already asked me if I want him to make a tight spring guide for the rifle, and I’m thinking I do. Let me first see how the rifle behaves and we’ll go from there.

          How is the LG55, by the way?


          • It will need some work. I checked the velocity and the low was 316 and the high 368 with RWS R 10. The trigger will need nothing . As soon as I learn a little more about the inner workings I will disassemble it and do a rebuild. I don’ t think it was your memory it was my lack of manners in failing to introduce myself. It was my pleasure to speak to you in person. George

  5. You guys out there really need to pick up a good BB gun like that 499 if you want to have some real shooting fun. I had an absolute blast with my “new” Daisy 99 this weekend. I have a tree in my back yard that has little purple blossoms all over it right now that the bumble bees love. Well, since I live in a log house, I absolutely hate bumble bees. I spent a good portion of Saturday and Sunday shooting bumble bees with my 99. The peep sights are perfect for lining up on those little buggers and the 99 is accurate! The ground around the base of that tree is littered with there little carcasses! I must have nailed between thirty or forty of them!

      • 103David,

        I tell you what, you tell the bumble bees to quit boring holes in my house and I will quit killing them.

        Before I picked up the 99 last week, I bought a racket ball racket at Wally World and started playing bumble ball. The first day I swatted over forty of them. In the first week I swatted over two hundred.

        • RR
          You can make a simple trap for those carpenter bees that works very well and keeps the from eating your house.

          Just get some cedar or oak wood, pine will also work but is not as aromatic as the others for attracting them to it instead of your house. and build a small rectangle box with the bottom slightly smaller in size than the top, top size 4″ by 6″ and bottom 4″ by4″ and then enclose all four sides with triangle shaped wood to form a upside down triangle with out the pointed end. Drill one 1/2 inch hole in each of the four sides at a 45 degree angle upwards toward the 4 x 6 top midway between top and bottom. Then drill another 1/2 inch hole in the center on the bottom 4 x 4 bottom and get a mason jar and drill the same 1/2 inch hole in the center of the lid and screw it to the bottom with the holes lined up and screw the glass jar on the bottom and put an eye screw in the top side to hang around the top of your log cabin beams under the roof line. depending on the size of your house it could take four to six or more to give you the coverage you need, but once on bee goes into one it leaves its pheromone scent behind which further attract more carpenter bees and once inside they make there way into the glass jar and cannot find there way back out and since they cannot bore thru glass they will frantically fly around till they die of exhaustion. If two bees make into the jar together they will fight each other furiously till both are dead.

          I have two on my small back porch that they were so eager to eat last year and a local antique shop in town had these traps hanging outside there log cabin building buy the dozen and there were bees in the bottom of almost everyone with some having 5 or 6 in the jars. They cost twenty buck each and are made from cedar wood and within one week there is already 2 in one and three in the other and no holes in the porch. IF you prefer not to make them just let me know how many you need and I can tell you the cost with tax and shipping to you to save your house from being eaten alive.

          While they are not as much fun as performing the splatology test on them they do protect your house 24 hours a day when you cannot be there to attend their funerals.


          • Buldawg76,

            Glad your back ! 🙂 …was worried that you took your buddy’s new V-8 powered scooter for a test ride and got yourself layed up,…or worse. 🙁

            Great idea on the wood boring bee trap. I have had a few here myself.


            • Chris, USA
              Nope I have not rode it yet and will wait till after my SSD hearing next week to do so.

              Please tell me you do not live anywhere near Cincinnati/Dayton Ohio as I only thought that Atlanta traffic was bad but its a piece of cake compared to those two cities. You will never catch me anywhere near southern Ohio or any big northern city again. I thought I was going to go to jail for road rage.

              I had those carpenter bees boring four holes in my back porch last year and I would wait till early evening when I would see them go into the holes and fill them with bathtub caulking to kill them and prevent them from getting out. I was shopping at a antique shop in town that is a log building and they had those traps hanging all around the roof line of the building with every one having at least one bee in it if not several so I bought two for my back porch and they have already paid for themselves with several bees caught and dead and no holes in my porch.


              • Buldawg76,

                Good luck at the SSD event. Glad you are doing good. Still have a few “screws loose” I see,… 😉 ….as you are thinking of riding that “Beast”.

                If so,….keep it,..and YOU in one piece….”Mr…. I don’t know anything but full open throttle”.

                😉 Chris

                • Chris, USA
                  Its always rubber side down and never ride faster than your angels can fly, so far my angels have managed to keep up but I will confess in my aging body I have learned that stupid hurts.

                  So I have slowed down in the populated areas but when I hit an open stretch of interstate with no cars in sight the throttle get twisted as far as it can go and the bike gets to stretch it legs. there is no sense in owning a car or bike that can do triple digits if it never gets to see the speed of light.

                  I still get the same adrenalin rush that I did 40 years ago but am just smarter and wiser as to when it safe for me and others to experienced it.

                  I would rather die doing what I love than from old age, so keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down and live life to the fullest as you never know when it will be your last day.


        • RR,

          Those aren’t bumble bees. Bumble bees live in the ground.

          Those are carpenter bees and they are very aggressive. I use to swat them with a racket when they would fly in my face at our front door. I also shot them with .22 rat shot and then with BB guns. They hover, making perfect targets.


        • Killing bees, Still very, very bad. Don’t necessarily believe me…but use your computer to do about five minutes of really, really basic research and find out just why the bees are your friends…assuming you want to keep on drinking wine, eating food, and like that…you know, basic keep-on-living-stuff.
          Hornets, wasps, yellow jackets…parasites one and all. Kill’em. Carpenter ants, Argentine ants…do your best to wipe ’em out. Black Widows, Brown Recluse…squash ’em wherever you can. They can make you painfully, maybe REALLY sick, and kill your dog or cat. Fire ants, and scorpions need no explanation. It’s worth your time to drain standing water (even daily) from your birdbath or those ancient dead old snow tires in the front yard. (Where do you think those midnight mosquitoes come from? You know the ones that feast on you at 3 in the morning.) Try picking up the dog poop on the yard and the cadavers from the bees. You’ll find a whole lot fewer house flies in your life.
          I mean no offense, really. But I respectfully repeat, the bees are your friends and not only are they needed for pollination, but there’s a serious crisis right now concerning them. Do your research.
          And as a consolation prize I hereby formally invite you (and your air-powered roscoe) to my back yard to work on my excessive gopher to garden ratio.
          Please don’t wear your “giant gopher suit” as you might be in serious trouble with the twin Lakeland Terrier contingent.

          • David,

            When Tom and I lived in Maryland for 22 years, we had a carpenter bee colony that owned our house. Yes, they drilled holes into the fence between our house and our neighbor’s. Then, several months a year, they took over our driveway, front door and my car. That meant that my desktop publishing customers ran screaming from my front door back to their cars as several carpenter bees chased them by slamming into their heads. These giant hovering insects flew with all their power into the head of anyone who was at the front door. I had to exit the basement door to come and go from my house. Then, it was a struggle to get into my car because they later claimed that area as their own.

            We found out that there were black-face and white-fact carpenter bees, and only one of them had stingers. Nevertheless, I never stood around and tried to examine their faces as they flew at my head and slammned into it. If one died, another immediately took its place.

            One year, I would become the bait for them. Tom would sit outside the front door with an air shotgun. I would walk outside the front door as bait to bring as many bees as I could. Then, I would try to quickly step back inside the house before Tom let loose with the shotgun. Some bees dropped, others flew away. Those that dropped were buzzing around on their sides. They had big holes in their thoraxes but still lived. As soon as Tom stopped shooting, I’d run outside, again, and stomp the ones that dropped. Then, we’d start all over again.

            We learned from someone that we could fill their holes in the fence with something. I don’t know what, but it would plug up the holes, and the carpenter bees wouldn’t be able to exit and would die. That worked for a while. However, when you have as many carpenter bees as we did, it was a drop in the bucket because other bees from other areas looking for a location to dominate would come in a settle there because no other bees competed with them.

            So, if you want your friends, family, children, grandchildren, pets, house, cars and birds (you can see them chasing off songbirds and other birds) to be terrorized by carpenter bees, have at it. If carpenter bees are that aggressive toward all living things as well as inanimate objects, I wonder if they’re also a deterrent to the population of honeybees. If honeybees want to pollinate, that’s fine, but I wonder if their aggressive, bullying relatives will let them. I do not know one way or another if they can live harmoniously in a given space.


            • Dearest Edith,
              Somehow this item started off as an Anti-BUMBLEBEE issue. Suddenly it’s now about Carpenter Bees.
              Way different critters.
              They have about as much to do with each other as the teeny (but teeming) Argentine Ants of California as the Carpenter Ants of British Columbia (which aside from being EVERYWHERE in BC) seem to be not too much smaller than your average miniature Collie. Any bigger and you’d be afraid to go out your back door.
              You have my full permission to open full auto fire on the creepy critters. Just watch the backround and leave the Bumble Bees alone so they can continue to make wine possible:)

          • 103David
            So you are saying we should let the bees eat all of our house wood till they are full and our house falls down. Sorry but I prefer to keep my house standing and kill the carpenter bees, they have plenty of woods to eat wood to survive.

            When they chose to eat my house then they put their lives in my hands just as I feel that if a person kills another person be it with a gun or automobile or any other device and that person does so with the intent to do bodily harm by shooting someone on purpose or getting behind the wheel drunk and getting in an accident that takes a life then they give up all rights to their own life and should be executed immediately after being convicted and found guilty.

            If our justice system was more inclined to treat criminal with less rights than the victims have there would be far less crime. Its an eye for an eye in my book so if bees are going to eat my house they will die by my hands however necessary.


            • BD,
              Somehow this started out as an BUMBLE BEE issue and has now morphed into the more proper CARPENTER BEE issue.
              I stand by my original stance against BumbleBeecide as we really are heading towards some really bad agricultural possibilities concerning “Not Enough Bees/Lack ‘o Pollination issues.(Again, don’t believe me, do your own research.)
              But the issue of the moment is that BUMBLE BEES are not the same critters as CARPENTER BEES.
              Different critters.
              Comparing the two is like comparing the teeming but tiny Argentine ants of California to the (seeming terrier sized) CARPENTER ANTS of British Columbia. If the BC critters were any bigger, you’d never leave your house.
              I have not the slightest sympathy for wabbits wanting to eat my garden. In my book, the termites wanting to eat my house must die. And gophers are the devil’s children (though the terriers find then entertaining.)
              On the other hand, we love the bees, support the HummingBirds, protect our many Hawks and Raptors and though the Ravens continue to be annoying, we continue our mutual (perhaps sometimes mutually grudging) respect.
              I respect the log cabin and I believe there are some treatments inexpensive and effective that would protect the cabin.
              In any case, as tempting as it may be (and not that I remotely disagree with you,) likely Bumblebees Vs Carpenter Bees fall short of Human/Capital Punishment/Supreme Court legal issues.
              I might possibly say, “Focus” would be more effective.

              • 103Divid
                I agree that it started out as bumble bees being mistaken for carpenter bees and I also agree that bumble bees are harmless and productive to the natural cycle of life. They should be left alone and as long as any bee, wasp or other flying insects leaves me, my family and my house alone then I will leave them alone as well.
                Unfortunately my wife is highly allergic to bees of any kind so at my house they all must die or she gets stung and goes into hypoallergenic shock and she may die so I have no choice but to protect my family and dwelling as I see fit since it still barely a free country.

                I also respect eagles, hawks, or any bird of prey, but in my state crows and raven are a nuisance bird and destroy crops so they to must die.

                Focus has long been a thing of the past as today criminal has no regards or respect for anything but themselves and to me are the scum of the earth and therefore deserve the same punishment that they give out. I by far am not nor have never been perfect and actually in my younger years did and acted just like the thugs I despise now but I grew up and realized that if I did not change I would eventually hurt someone beside myself.

                I have driven and rode motorcycles three sheets in the wind and by the grace of God never hurt or killed anyone even when there where times that I woke up the next day and had to go and see if my bike was in the garage as I did not remember riding home. That’s when I grew up and realized that my actions could affect someone beside just me.

                I will stand by my statement and convictions that our justice system is nothing but a joke that criminals today laugh at since there is no true and deserving punishment dealt out by any court that in any way is close to be equal to the crime committed. When you have murders on death row for 20 plus years it s not only unfair for us the taxpayer to have to support there life but completely and utterly disgraceful that the families of the victim never get any sense of justice or closure. if public execution and hanging were brought back our crime rate would drop by 50 % overnight. There is no other country in the world that has a crime rate any where near ours as they do not tolerate the violence that happens every day in this country. So I stand firm that it is an Eye for an Eye and if you knowingly kill someone by whatever means at your disposal then you give up the right to your life and should suffer the same fate that you caused your victim to receive. This country has become so concerned with political correctness and not offending other cultures and races that it has forgotten how and why we became the United States of AMERICA.

                It is not our responsibility to assimilate to other cultures in this country but rather that they assimilate to ours as this is an English speaking country and if you come here to live then you need to learn English and adopt our culture not the other way around. we were all immigrants at one time so this is still barely the greatest country on earth and is slowly spiraling down that funnel into the abyss never to be heard from again.

                In my state we are a shall issue state and also a castle doctrine state so if you trespass against me you will pay with your life.


          • 103David
            I don’t take any pleasure in taking the life of most anything, never have, however, I do make exceptions and carpenter bees are near the top of my “hit” list! What little they do in regards to pollination is grossly over shadowed by their destruction to wooden structures, like your house and out buildings, if unchecked,it can cost you thousands of dollars in repair! I will kill each and everyone of them that I can in a New York minute, and you know what, you are not even making a dent in their population! You obviously do not have a problem with them or you would not have written this! You are undoubtedly from a different part of this country because we don’t have gophers, instead, we have chipmunks and white footed mice which can be equally destructive, I give them the same quarter as carpenter bees, none, in reality, on rare occasion, chippies some!. Redd Foxx said years ago on one of his comedy albums that “A crowded elevator smells different to a midget!”

            Perhaps you should do a little more research on the internet yourself because actually, the bald faced hornet kills and eats flies, if the flight path of the insects in the nest is close to where people are, destroy it! If it is high in a tree away from human activity, let it be!

            Bumblebees, in my experience, large and small ( there are two sizes), normally nest above ground in a sheltered environment, both pollinate plants and will attack you with a vengeance if you disturb their nest, especially the small variety! If you disturb them, be prepared to run, FAR!

            The yellow jacket however, is equally at home above or below ground, many people mistake their above ground paper nests as hornets, not true! These insects you should also kill on sight! They are attracted to anything sweet or fermented and are constantly in your face! Unlike the “single shot” honeybee, which tears it’s guts out when it stings, once, and later dies, the YJ is a machina gun, it can sting you repeatedly, right up to the time you kill the SOB, (this is true with all wasps and bees with the honey bee being the exception)! They have a VERY bad habit of crawling into an open can of soda (pop) or beer when left unattended to suck up the sweets! It is not a pleasant experience to take a swig from your favorite beverage with a YJ inside which feels threatened when you take it inside of your mouth, been there done that! Nearly instant and FREE botox treatment!

            I do believe in picking up dog feces, however, don’t bother with carpenter bee carcasses, and keep all my unmounted worn out tires in the back yard. Really , I detest mosquitoes as much as carpenter bees and have actually sprayed to eradicate them! How do you feel about reptiles and amphibians, as a whole, they love insects (not bees) to eat.

            Most creatures, large and small, have good points and bad from man’s standpoint! I realize how important bees are, without pollination, there are going to be a LOT of starving people on this planet! I believe you should take a harder look at Monsanto, GMO crops and RF energy causing the decline of the honey honey bee! I remember back at the turn of this century, seeing a dozen honey bees, or even less, in a day was rare event!

            PS As many times that I have read and reread this reply before posting, I am sure that there will be some errors, for that I apologize!


            • Bugbuster
              I posted almost the exact same thing and everything has its checks and balances. I am with you 100% as far as everything you said and I have a wife that is allergic to bee stings so they all must die at my house.

              You are exactly right that we are far more at risk by the FDA approving all the growth hormones in our livestock and Monsanto producing GMO seeds that make their own pesticide to kill the bugs that feed on the plants and then give off sterile seeds so the farmers must sign a contract to only by seeds from Monsanto and must do so every year since the seeds that the plants produce are sterile and will not grow. then we are fed that same beef, poultry and pork as well as corn wheat and grains.

              These same GMOs and growth hormones are banned in 27 other countries in the world because they are toxic to humans but our govt could care less as it is their regulated form of population control and only serves to make the corrupt politician richer as they slowly kill us all off.

              It is time we wake up AMERICA and demand that these practices be stopped immediately. unless you are ok with poisoning your own children every day you feed them poison.


              • Buldawg76
                We have a lot in common, unfortunately, “common sense”, is not very common in this day and age. Should not one question that if a product has the ability to kill undesirable insects and plants that there has to be toxic compounds within the plant itself, they just don’t go away when the plant is harvested. If these compounds are so safe and benign, according to Monsanto, why do they continually lobby to keep GMO labeling off the food that you eat? The long term negative effects of consuming GMO’s have not been fully realized, as of yet.

                Isn’t it amazingly coincidental that when the top management of the FDA leave the government job, they usually are hired by Monsanto or one of the major pharmaceutical corporations at a very good salary! I believe that sometimes, even the reverse is true, just an unending, vicious circle of corruption.

                Good post about the Carpenter Bee traps, I didn’t know they existed, I will have to try some!
                A friend of mine designed and built some sort of trap for Starlings, he nicknamed it “Hotel California”.

                Blank rifle cartridges also work well for tough insects, just not very stealthy, and definitely not recommended in an urban environment! The military 5.56mm/.223, 7.62mm/.308 and the 30-06. Do not use them with a blank firing attachment of any kind. If you wish you can also re size the “parent” case for other calibers made from it! I resized a 7.62mm once and fired it in .243 Winchester, when fired, the end of the case was actually imprinted by the rifling! All you have to do is remove the COMPLETE de-capping assembly from your sizing die and run the PROPERLY LUBRICATED blank cartridge into it, and voila, a new caliber blank!

                Did you ever find out if the TX compression tube will fit your Chinese clone?


                • Bugbuster
                  I believe common sense is a thing of the past for most of the generation X and younger as can be seen every day on the daily news reports. There are situations and incidents that anyone with the slightest amount of common sense would never even think of attempting or much less doing. It does not take a college degree to realize that if plants are modified to protect themselves from insects and not repopulate on their own then the chemical introduced into the seeds to allow this have got to be harmful to any living thing that consumes those plants or meats as well and yet we eat such poison laden food every day with our own govt’s ignorance and outright contempt for are well being.
                  you are right that the long term effects have not even been realize and will not be for many more years and most likely in our grandchildren’s lifetime.

                  Yes it is not just a coincidence that the top govt officials or CEO swap places like we change our underwear and do so for only their benefit and with no concern for the American citizen.

                  I can attest that the traps work very well and was the best 40 bucks I have spent. I thought about trying to make my own but my arthritis does not allow me to use power tools safely as I would like anymore and I want to keep all my fingers on my hands even though they cause me excruciating pain at times.

                  Unfortunately I do not reload at this time and would like to do so but just don’t have the funds to do so until my disability is approved. in my neighbor hood I could use 22 rat shot for insect elimination without much concern from the neighbors. But I have found that brake clean with the red thin plastic nozzle on the spray head give you a 15 foot stream that will instantly melt any insects exoskeleton on contact and works very well for the red wasps and yellow jackets that we deal with here and as I said my wife being allergic to bee stings I am constantly hunting them down and melting them with brake clean. for ground yellow jackets the best way to kill the whole nest at once is to wait till dusk when they are all in the nest and fill a long neck beer bottle with gasoline and very quickly turn it upside down neck first into the hole to plug the hole and their escape route and the gas fumes kills all immediately and without risk of being stung and just leave it there for a few days to insure that the nest is eradicated completely.

                  GF1 gave me some measurements of his piston and I sent Tyler at PA an email to see if he could measure one to see if the TX chamber will work but I have not heard from him yet and have not had a chance to take the 40 apart to compare GF1 measurements of the piston to mine. right mow until my SSD hearing on the 22nd I am still trying to get my medical records from my doctor as he has not been in his office for 4 weeks now and is supposedly sick so that is my main concern and has been consuming my days by traveling to his office everyday to see if he is in as they no longer answer the phone. I just contacted my congressman’s assistant about the issue and if I don’t have them by Thursday I will contact her so she can step in and explain to the judge the situation and help me get a fair hearing or compel the SSA to request the records by court order if necessary.


                  • Buldawg76

                    Sorry to hear about your maladies, I know where you are coming from! I just got off the phone with a close friend of mine to confirm what she told me about some home remedy’s for your arthritis. Try some magnesium oil in conjunction with vitamin B6, the magnesium oil is derived from seawater. I believe it is worth a shot, and no ill side effects like all the big pharmaceutical, patented drugs!

                    Unfortunately, for your SSD, you’re “hit in the mouth” since you actually worked for a living for several years of your life and paid into SS. If you were a government parasite or illegal alien, (sorry,those are hurtful, racist words, I should have said undocumented citizen) who never paid squat into the system, the paperwork would sail through all the red tape!

                    I would interested to communicate with you on a more private basis, but do not feel comfortable putting my actual email address on the blog. If you are interested give me a yea or a nay.


                    • Bugbuster
                      That would be a YAY as far as discussion off the forum and understand your reluctance to give your email out on the blog, but since I have posted mine here before I have no reservations about doing so again.

                      You can contact me at buldawg76 at cableone dot net

                      Yea it is a shame when someone can come into this country illegally and be handed a silver platter with any and all needs upon it, yet the true backbone of this country that have paid with there sweat and blood to earn a legal living and then suffer debilitating health issue by no fault of there own and most likely more a result of our corrupt gov’t not doing there job of working for the people , of the people and by the people have created most illness’s us American now suffer from at their hands of deceit and corruption in Washington DC.


                    • Bugbuster
                      I just received an email from a person who said his name was Terrell P. Coon and I am wondering if that is you as it does not sound as though it is. He stated to have read some info from my post about going to Ohio to pickup my friend boss hoss bike and also stated he lives in Waynesburg in southern PA.

                      If it is you then please respond back to me by a post here so I know it is you and not a Spambot like Fred warned us about as I am leary of responding until I am sure of the sender.


      • DJ,

        Forget it. The 499 is designed for 5 meter competition. It will likely be more accurate than any other BB gun at 10 to 20 yards, however at those ranges you would be doing real well to have beer can accuracy.

        Having said that, this weekend I was hitting thumbnail sized targets at 10 yards with my Daisy 99. That was not with even the majority of shots, but I was hitting them.

  6. Ridgerunner,

    Just because I am curious: What problems do the bumblebees cause for a log house? Do you have some photo’s of the bumblebees in your back garden?



    • August
      They are actually carpenter bee and eat wood for food, se my post to RR above on how to build traps to keep them from eating your house. They look like just a big bumble bee with yellow stripes and black body, but don’t sting people but will eat your house with pleasure.


      • BD and Bugbuster,

        for what it’s worth, a while ago someone pointed out that spambots (just small programming applications) comb the net and blogs like this looking for e-mails to pick up. The individual and I forget who he is, suggested not putting your e-mail on the blog but instead, spelling it out. So my e-mail would be cyclealleyriders at gmail dot com. No idea if it is true but it can’t hurt.

        Fred DPRoNJ

  7. Hi B.B.,

    It was nice to meet you in Findlay. I was the young man who bought the Diana 36 for $35. Thanks for the good advice to buy it while I had the chance! I will keep you updated as I go through the process of refinishing it. I plan to go all out on this rifle and make it as nice as I possibly can. Hopefully when I am done my R-7, FWB 124, and Bronco will be a little less lonely on my gun rack. I think this one will be a keeper!

  8. That 22″ export barrel is a bit of a power thief with the HW35, and 177 is a bit less efficient too….might have a fight on your hands to see a smooth 750fps there Mr Gaylord :-), do-able……..just…..

  9. BB–I am a youth gun lover. I have a Diana 23 with a rifled barrel that is very accurate. Most of the groups are under an inch (usually 3/4″ )at 10M, 78 year old eyes. Do you know if those D 23 copies had rifled or smoothbore barrels? Ed

      • The japanese EIG, and the Breda Ariel, both have rifled .177 barrels.
        The EIG shoots weak, but solid.
        The Breda shoota strong and accurate. Bothe need torn down and fresh seals and springs. I am gonna try my hand at reblueing them and also refinishing the stocks. For as cheap as I bought them, I can only increase their value.
        I lucked into a Hyscore 808 rifle in the last minutes of the show. It was a closet queen, it is my 2nd best Hyscore purchase ever, 1st being a Belgium 801.
        BB, it was really great talking with you about everything airgun related at the show. The show was awesome. I would love to pick your brain more, I plan on asking more here on your blog as time allows me.
        I also loved laying eyes on the antique you inspected, everyone is in for a treat when you reveal.
        Take care, tell Edith she needs to come to Findlay next year.

  10. B.B.,

    Thanks for the report! I keep meaning to go to that show, but each year for the past several years something pressing comes up that prevents my being able to make it.

    Ridgerunner — please do use Bulldawg’s trap plan to save the bees and avoid killing them. Your garden is much the better for your having the bees, and the rapid reduction of the world’s bee population is actually scary. The harm to produce-growing could eventually become catastrophic.

    Back to the show, that Japanese Diana 23 copy looks soooo cool! I am jealous.

    B.B., thanks again for the report,


  11. Eric,

    If you do end up tuning up that Japanese Diana 23 copy, would you consider asking Tom and Edith if it could be a guest blog report? I have a few youth breakbarrels I’d like to open up, and I think the more instructional resources online the better. Just a thought . . .


    • Kevin,

      That is indeed the model I got — though not with wood as beautiful as yours! Mine is plain walnut.

      I am printing your comment on the Yellow to use as a reference for when I test my rifle. If Paul Watts can get a smooth tune, I hope to do the same.

      I had to let Dennis Quackenbush take it home with him, as I was flying. So I will pick the rifle up at the airgun show in Malvern in 2 weeks. I can’t wait!


    • Kevin Thanks for your article you wrote Read and re read it many times last fall.
      Convinced me to acquire an hw 35. Mines a Safari with a green stock and browned finish. Not too pretty but I like her. Tuned for no vibe and 11 ft lbs. It is my favorite shooter. Didn’t know what I was missing going for too much power over the years.
      I might outfit her with the same scope too.

  12. BB,
    I wish I could have hopped on that Diana 72. I have seen them at good prices when I didn’t have the money but not when I could afford one I have always liked the little guns too.

    Good find on the HW35. I love airguns with the Bavarian styled stocks, especially the old HW50 and 35. I have a 35 with a checkered Bavarian stock that my brother is tuning for me. Unfortunately, it has gotten lost at the bottom of his tune pile.

    It’s funny that no matter how many times I walk a small airgun show, I never see everything or realize what everything is. Some people think the best deals are gone in the first hour but I don’t think so. There are hidden gems everywhere if you can just spot them. A lot of them will go home with the seller and no one will have even picked them up.

    I will see you in a couple of weeks at Malvern.

    David Enoch

      • There was a Supergrade at the Findlay show. Asking price was 1250$
        I dont know if it sold, but I do remember someone test firing it at the testing trailer setup for the show.
        I really need to take more funds with me next year, making choices on all the super bargains really took its toll on me.
        The Findlay show is that good. Alot of variety, and alot of stuff you only usually see in books.

  13. All this “bad bee” talk, and no one even mentioned if they (do) help pollinate,… (or not). Are they here to help my house grow better/bigger ?

    I don’t know. If they go after me or my stuff,…well…

    • Chris,

      Carpenter bees pollinate some plants. I think it’s only some nightshade ones (tomatoes, peppers, eggplants). Until you’ve experienced the bee sentries preventing you from coming and going, you may not be able to fully understand why Tom and I had to do something about them. Imagine people running and screaming trying to come and go from your house. We had 20+ years of that. Til you experience that, you may not fully appreciate how Tom and I feel.


  14. I plan on taking pics when I tear it down.
    I will also do a comparison of parts of a Hyscore 806, which I believe is a Diana 23. The japanese rifle also has some type of captured, adjustment screw on the back of the main tube? Maybe some type of sear adjustment. Not only is it a clone, they also made some improvements?
    We shall see. I now have 5 Hyscore rifles, and 4 other youth style break barrels..I plan on doubling my collection asap.

  15. BB,
    This is some interesting stuff here; that Philippine 20-gauge air shotgun looks pretty wild!
    However, unrelated to this show, I do have one question: “What happened to the Bronco?”
    If you type in Air Venturi Bronco on the Pyramyd AIR site, all that comes up is an “Air Venturi Bronco Mainspring.”
    I hope it’s just a lull in production. Thank you.
    take care,

    • Dave,

      The Bronco is gone. The price of the base rifle the Bronco was made from rose so high that it is no longer competitive. Pyramyd AIR held the price steady for 5 years, but when their costs increased another 30 percent, they had to let it go.


      • BB,
        I am so sorry to hear that; I know it was not only a pet project of yours, but also one you worked on as a service to the air gun community, in order to provide a nice, accurate, all-day plinker with which one could introduce others to the sport. Pyramyd AIR did well to hold that price for 5 years, and it’s understandable why it’s gone, yet it’s just sad to see it go. Well, I’m sure you’re already thinking about what to put in its place. Keep up the good work!
        take care & God bless,

  16. Very good score on the hw 35! Livin my dream! You will be in for a real treat when she’s tuned. Smooth and zero buzz is possible. It took a few tricks to get mine right and I look forward to your posts!

  17. B.B.
    congratulations on the 35 and being able to witness all the other cool stuff out there in Yankee land! Are your feet cold yet?
    I’ve already got a plan for this year’s TexAs show . I have this wired scheme about saving cash for the show but still gotta work on the ride part,if I can pull the first part off the second part shouldn’t be too much more work?!


  18. I was able to pick up a couple of deals Saturday (at least I consider them deals), and I didn’t get there before 10:30. Found an as new Daisy Powerline 753. This was an early model from the 80’s with palm swell grip, original Gamo diopter sights and adjustable comb and butt plate. Now, I’ve recently picked up several of the used Daisy 853s with Monte Carlo stocks from the CMP North Store for $100 per. Accuracy per dollar ratio is much more than adequate. This new/old 753 is proving at least their equal and for less than a couple of double saw bucks more than one of the 853s. Also found a dusty but little used Daisy 717 for less than $50. This should be fun. Last find was a WW2 fighting knife: a 6″ Kutmaster by Utica Cutlery Company. The original sheath is in good condition with theater made replacement handle retaining strap and owners initials carved on the back. Very happy with the $20 price tag. Got to see lots of stuff I’ve only read about. Neat show.

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