by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Gletcher Nagant CO2 BB revolver
This report covers:
- Grip won’t go on
- First group
- Deep seating for accuracy
- Umarex BBs
- 4.4mm lead balls
- Daisy BBs, again
- Evaluation
- The action works with the loading gate down
We’ll look at the accuracy of the Nagant CO2 BB revolver today. I learned a good tip for improved accuracy, and I’ll also show you how the action of the revolver I am testing works with the loading gate open. Let’s get to it.
Grip won’t go on
The first thing I did was install a fresh CO2 cartridge. And I had the same problem I reported in part 2 of getting the grip back on the gun after the cartridge was in place. But this time, no matter what I did, it wouldn’t fit on the gun.
I shot the test with the left grip panel off, then removed the Crosman CO2 cartridge and tried installing an ASG Ultrair CO2 cartridge. Problem fixed!
I had heard that Crosman CO2 cylinders are too long to fit some airguns. The Crosman cartridge I used measured 3.274 inches long, while the ASG Ultrair that I installed next measured 3.250 inches. You may remember in part 2 that I said I had to tighten the piercing screw an extra amount to get the grip panel back on, and now I think I know why. If you’re going to shoot this air pistol, and you have this problem, switch the cartridges you use.
I next measured 4 Crosman cartridges at random from a box, and they ranged from 3.248 inches to 3.265 inches. Four random ASG Ultrair cartridges ranged from 3.250 inches to 3.256 inches. So, the 2 cartridges are similar in size, with the Crosman cartridges being ever-so-slightly longer. It isn’t black and white; but if you’re having a problem like I had, try a different brand of CO2 cartridge.
First group
I shot the gun from 5 meters with my gun hand resting on the UTG Monopod. I can’t say enough good things about this rest that is steadier than most bipods.
The first group was shot with Daisy Premium Grade steel BBs, and it measured 1.266 inches between the centers of 7 shots. There were really 2 groups — one high and the other low. I felt this wasn’t a good start to the test, but I also wondered if I’d seated the BBs deep enough in the cartridges.
Deep seating for accuracy
I noticed while loading the cartridges that if the BBs are pushed in deeply, they pop past some kind of restriction. The pop is soft and must be felt, and not all cartridges do it. But those that do, do it every time, so it isn’t random.
The next time I loaded the cartridges, I paid attention to the pop and felt it on 5 of the 7 cartridges. I think this is something that matters for the best accuracy with the Nagant, though just seating the BBs randomly will still work.
Umarex BBs
I took care to seat 7 Umarex Precision BBs next, and the results were dramatically different. These BBs shot a half-inch lower, which was right to the point of aim. They also grouped 7 in 0.775 inches. That’s a difference worth working for in my opinion. It also shows the Nagant revolver can shoot.
Seven Umarex BBs went into 0.775 inches at 5 meters from a rest.
4.4mm lead balls
Now that I knew the revolver could shoot, I tried something different. I loaded 7 4.4mm copper-plated round lead balls. People are always asking me if a BB gun will shoot lead balls; at 4.4mm, these German balls are as close to the actual size of the 4.3mm BB as you can get. If someone made 4.3mm lead BBs, I would buy them, but I’m not aware anyone does.
I have several tins of these 4.4mm copper-plated round lead balls for certain older airguns.
Where can you buy these balls? John Groenewold sells them, though not the ones shown here.
Anyhow, the lead balls made a 1.057-inch 7-shot group from 5 meters. In light of what the Umarex BBs did, that’s hardly worth the effort.
Seven 4.4mm lead balls went into 1.057 inches from 5 meters, rested.
Daisy BBs, again
Now that I knew the loading secret, I tried the Daisy BBs, again. They landed lower on the target than the first time, and the group measures 1.078 inches. I think I was starting to fatigue at this point, so perhaps these BBs could have done a little better.
After seating them deep in each cartridge, Daisy BBs made this 1.078-inch group at 5 meters from a rest.
Evaluation
The Nagant revolver works well, as long as you use the right CO2 cartridge and seat each BB deep in its shell. The air pistol has good power and is very realistic. The size is small and fits my average-sized hand quite well. I recommend it as a good buy in a BB revolver.
The action works with the loading gate down
The last thing I did was film a video of how the action operates with the loading gate down. Owners of the silver models of this revolver have said their actions lock up when the gate is opened; but as you’ll see, this one functions flawlessly.
Ah yes, deep seating BB’s and pellets is something we airgunners need to be reminded of frequently since sometimes the accuracy improvement is dramatic.
kevin
Interesting replica revolver. but it’s dependence on CO2 cartridges would put it on my long list. I do not know of any retailer here locally that sells anything but Crosman CO2 cartridges. If my air gun hobby branches out to collecting , rather then shooting , it would make a nice addition to a collection. Enjoyed the report. Harvey
I would not mind having a real Nagant, and a Webley for that matter.
Nice silver dime. 🙂
Vance,
If you haven’t read the hilarious story about the dime, it’s worth your time to do so. I reread it every few months because I could use a good howl every now and then!
Edith
Vance,
Welcome to the blog.
If the dime interests you, you may enjoy reading about it here:
/blog/2012/04/the-dimes-story/
B.B.
It’s a darn shame about the CO2 cartridges. A 5 pack of the ASG are $14.95 while a 40 pack of the Crosman are $19.95. Granted, the ASG are pre-lubed, but still …
I would have to know what ASG uses as a lubricant(just guessing it’s not pellgunoil) before I could consider an asset, after all some of these Chinese sprroingers can have that stank and what ait’s long term effects on seals
Reb,
According to the Product Page the ASG cartidges use silicone. Below I ask BB if you can skip the Pellgunoil if you use the ASG cartridges.
G&G
B.B.,
I think if you did not have the issue with the CO2 cartridges you would have been more excited about how well this revolver shoots. There aren’t many BB guns that will shoot nearly 3/4″ groups consistently. I use the Umarex BBs also and I have been shooting groups under 1″ consistently at 20 ft. Actually, I have been shooting mostly standing unsupported with two hands. Shooting this way my groups with the Nagant are consistently around 1″ to1-1/4″ at 20 ft. In addition, when I shoot 2 or 3 cylinders at the target the groups do not exceed 1-1/2″ with 21 shots. I am thrilled with how well this BB gun shoots. I have found this kind of accuracy rare with BBs. Especially a gun with non adjustable sights.
Regarding the grip panel, I think I have used 8 CO2 cartridges. It is true that putting the panel back on is a bear but I haven’t had one not go back on at all yet. However, I can definitely see that happening. But given how well this revolver shoots and how much fun it is to shoot it I think I can live with losing 1 out of ten CO2 cartridges if that happens. In order to prevent that though I think I will try measuring the Crosman cartridges and only use those shorter than 3.256″. This should work fine. I usually order 100 packs so there should be plenty of shorter cartridges in those.
By the way, can you skip using Pellgunoil if you use the ASG CO2 cartridges?
My bottom line is that this Nagant revolver is now one of my favorites. I really love it.
G&G
G&G,
You are shooting very good with your Nagant. I rest the gun to take my shaky self out of the equation.
I would always use Pellgunoil regardless of any claims.
B.B.
B.B.,
Correct me if I am wrong, but your 7-shot group with the Umarex Precision BBs is among the best, if not THE best group you have ever shot with a CO2 BB handgun. At 5 meters, this Nagant seems — at its best — to be more accurate than the Makarov, SIG Sauer P226 and SP2022, plastic Tangfolio Witness, and any of the other BB-shooting revolvers at their bests.
Also, your findings with CO2 cartridge variations reminds me of the time when you tested the SIG P226 and discovered that even so-called “precision” BBs were far from consistent in size.
I just grabbed seven Crosman Powerlets and carefully stood each on its nose in a tight row. I did not put a level on the tabletop, but the Powerlets were VERY close to each other. Just a casual glance at the stubby ends showed two things: considerable difference in the length of the Powerlets (no two were the same length) and that some have a stubby end that is small and flat, some have a larger flat end, and some have an end that has practically no flat surface at all.
If I get one of these Nagants I would simply sort my Powerlets for length and separate the shortest of them for use in this revolver.
Michael
Michael,
That was exactly what I wanted you to take from this report. Just sort your cartridges and use the short ones in this gun.
I think the Makarov BB pistol was the most accurate BB pistol I have ever tested. See it here:
/blog/2009/4/new-makarov-pistol-part-3/
B.B.
BB, I also have a Makarov and really like it. The sights are so small on the Makarov with my old eyes hard to get a good sight picture. Is the Nagents sights easier to see ?
Harvey,
The Nagant sights are also thin. But I find them easy to see.
B.B.
“…grouped 7 in 0.775 inches.”
B.B., that’s pretty sweet; looks like a shooter; thanks.
B.B., WOW, this gun taking just that C02 cart. just killed it for me. At $14.95 for 5 carts, not happening! Not when all the other bands are around $4.95 per 5 carts. Do you or could maybe Edith get PA to measure the other brands of C02 carts. they have? I see Gamo, Swiss Arms and Umarex brands they carry. They don’t carry Daisy, but maybe I one of those I could measure myself. Thanks, Bradly
Also, would the diameter of the cart. have anything to do with it? Since the carts. vary so much in length, I just one could just keep using the current brands (cheaper ones) and go through the boxes, measuring them all. Seems like a pain though. Seems as though these should be addressed from the manufacture’s end.
Bradly,
I interpret what is written above quite differently. Crosman Powerlets WILL work, they just need to be sorted for the shortest ones. Many people sort their pellets one at a time. CO2 cart sorting shouldn’t be a problem.
My 2 cents,
Michael
Michael, after rereading it, I agree.
Bradly,
This was the first CO2 gun I have seen with this problem. I will certainly be more aware in the future.
B.B.
I have been using the crosman cartridges. I had the same grip problem on a couple occasions but found if I place my thumb firmly on the cartridge pushing it in and up into the seal and holding it there while turning the lanyard loop piercing screw. I have not had a problem since.
What I found was that sometime by just turning the piercing screw, the cartridge would shift or ” bind” a little and it would stick out or rise a little outward to prevent the grip panel from snapping on. By holding the cartridge “in place” while turning prevents it moving and the grip pops right on.
In addition, I have the black gun and I can see a small tooth at the bottom inside of the loading gate that looks like it is suppose to catch on something on the cylinder. It doesn’t though on my pistol. I could see if it was a little larger it would lock onto the cylinder and prevent it from moving.
B.B., On H&N’s site, they show they make a copper plated lead bb (Präzisions-Rundkugel) that is 4.35 (they have them in 4.35, 4.40. 4.45, 4.50, 4.52, 4.54, 4.56). That is pretty close. There is a site in the US (competition of PA so I will not list) showing a pic of H&N with 4.3 on the tin. I don’t find that pic on H&N’s site. So maybe it’s a 4.3 or really a 4.35, not sure. I may have to track down some of those 4.35’s and try em. Bradly
Link for H&N’s site (not in English mind you) http://www.hn-sport.de/en/products/air-gun-pellets/round-balls/praezisions-rundkugel-copper-plated.html
Bradly,
It is in English.
Edith
Edith, you are correct! I had looked at a catalog that was in French. I went back, clicked on what I thought was the same link and lo and behold, English. Thanks for letting me know! Bradly
Hey BB,
There is a line from a few blogs ago keeps coming back tot me. And that was that you were going to talk about something on your own website… You have your own website where there is more?
Best regards,
Carel
Carel,
Yes.
http://www.thegodfatherofairguns.com
B.B.
That.. is really cool!
Since there are thousands of blog readers, it would be great if everyone with 12-gram CO2 cartridges measured a random sampling and provided the lengths they find. That way, we’d get a lot more feedback. It would interesting to see how widely they vary.
Thanks,
Edith
New box 25 Crosman
“General” dial caliper — last digit interpolated visually
3.2575
3.2450
3.2639
3.2591
3.2655
3.2655
3.2680
3.2658
3.2667
3.2593
3.2750
3.2655
3.2705
3.2525
3.2688
3.2717
3.2580
3.2686
3.2695
3.2600
3.2535
3.2592
3.2645
3.2510
3.2524
Minimum: 3.2450
Maximum: 3.2750
Mean: 3.2623
Std. Dev.: 7.44E-3 (0.00744)
Wulfraed,
Thank you!
Edith
Edith:
Here are the measurements for 10 Crosman CO2 powerlets selected haphazardly from a new box of 40:
3.231
3.242
3.244
3.235
3.244
3.238
3.244
3.241
3.228
3.248
High 3.248
Low 3.213
Spread 0.035
Average 3.238
Jim
Wulfraed,
Thank you for this data.
B.B.
They aren’t the easiest things to measure, trying to hold the tip flat against one side of the caliper, and then wiggling the other end to find the peak of the curve.
Jim,
Thank you for your data.
B.B.
Jim,
Thank you!
Edith
there is a typo on 1st number in the string. It s/b 3.213.
Jim
The variations in length of the common CO2 carts (I like that abbreviation…) from different manufacturers available in Germany and some neighbour countries were up to 4 mm (0.1578 Inch) in the late 1990’s – that were the tests by the Umarex people, which resulted in their “Fast Action”-clamp system in the Walther CP88 and some other CO2-pistols (the actual clamp system is a bit simplified). Because one could assume that within a brand and batch the lengths are quite identical, you only had to fine-adjust that small wheel to the length of the cartridges you wanted to use before the first shot. And then the clamp fits also to the next cartridge without further adjustments.
But because the pressure applied to the cartridge while pressed against the valve is so important for the function, the actual lengths of “your” CO2 carts should be almost the same. As far as I know there aren’t so many manufacturers of those cartridges worldwide, apart from Crosman and some company in Hungaria. And I can imagine that an equal length could also be important for the function of other machines, tools etc which use those carts. So a little more care for the same measuments while producing could help a lot of people. But maybe the mass production makes the individual cartridges so cheap that noone really cares about the same measurements…
I have an off-topic question for everyone on the blog.
I was doing research on chronographs yesterday and found an app by Chrono Connect that turns an iphone or ipad into a sonic chronograph. The information on its website indicated that results could be within 10 fps of the reading given by a mechanical/optical chronoscope. Has anyone used this app? Is it as accurate as stated?
I wanted to see if anyone here has any experience with it. The app is only a few dollars for the pro version of the app so I will probably purchase it and give it a try but I wanted your opinions first. I have a friend with a chrony so I should be able to get comparison numbers.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
Same app is also available for Android phones and tablets in free and pro versions. I would be interested in hearing how well it works.
David
Positioning of the phone relative to the fun and target is critical and requires a lot of trial and error to get a consistent reading. My problem though is I have no actual chronograph readings as yet to determine how close or how far off the apps’ velocity compared to that of a real chronograph.
No article for May 1? On a Friday at that?
Siraniko,
An administrative error. It’s up now.
Thanks,
B.B.
I’ve noticed that on videos and photographs of the silver NGT, there appears to be an extra screw or pin in a hole in the frame above the trigger on the right side of the gun. On my black NGT, there appears to be a small bump under the paint in that location, hinting that perhaps a hole had been filled. This might indicate that the black and silver models are not mechanically identical and maybe the loading gate on the silver models does act as a safety.
I’ve also noticed on YouTube videos of the NGT that are made in Eastern Europe (Russia, Ukraine,etc), their guns have the safety lever pictured in the Pyramyd photos.
It seems the Gletchers are not easy guns to use ,and the fact that the most prevalent co2 cartridges in America don’t fit ,shows poor planning. This may be the reason the Stechkin I had never sealed properly. It seem their lineup is just not ready for prime time.
My silver Gletcher Nagant holds air for weeks without any indication of leaking. Just been feeding it Crosman CO2 all along. For an airgun it really isn’t that fussy to use and is quite accurate. Being a replica of a 19th century revolver, you have to take it for what it is. Which is amazing when you come to think of the older comparable replica offerings from Crosman and Daisy like the Shiloh and Peacemaker that come across closer to toy quality. And the size of the Gletcher Nagant is quite handy, much like a Smith & Wesson K frame. I’d like to get a hold of a black version but will wait until the rifled/pellet models being announced on the Gletcher site come out. It’s also a shame the Gletcher Smith & Wesson rifled revolver clones were discontinued. Those would have been as close to a modern revolver airgun replica as you can get.
My comment concerns the mosin nagant bb revolver . I love mine I only had one tiny problem with co2 power let’s.my grip cover wouldn’t fit and upon inspection I trimmed down the ridge’s on either side of the spring clip.problem solved and I’ve never had a problem with co2 leakage