Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver
The new Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver comes in both silver and black. I’m testing a silver gun.

Part 1
Part 2

Before I start the report, here is an update on Edith. This thing she may have/probably has is called Guillian Barre Syndrome. It does in hours what MS does in years. It is very rare — only one case in 100,000 they say. But it is curable, where MS isn’t. Or at least if the disease doesn’t go away, it stops bothering the patient.

Edith has been having waves of pain and weakness attacks, followed by short recoveries. Last evening she was in a lot of pain and could not get out of bed. But her doctor is optimistic that the treatment she is undergoing will work and she’ll have a full recovery. I took her computer to the hospital, but she wasn’t able to look at it last night. I will see her again today and hopefully she’ll be much better and able to read all you have written.

Now, let’s see what we have today. This report covers:

  • First group
  • Second group
  • Third group
  • Fourth group
  • What have we learned?

Today we look at the accuracy of Gletcher’s Nagant pellet revolver. After testing the Colt Single Action Army recently, I suspect a lot of you expect big things from this air pistol. I want to remind you that I shot the Colt smoothbore at 25 feet and today I’m shooting this pellet revolver at 10 meters, which is 8 feet farther. Yes, this one does have a rifled barrel while the BB gun has a smooth bore, but those 8 additional feet can open the group a lot with a handgun.

I shot with the gun rested on a sandbag. Right away I noticed a couple things. First, the Gletcher’s trigger pull is much heavier than the Colt. It is also more positive. I felt the two triggers were equal between the 2 guns. I shot single action only, since this was target work and double action is usually reserved for action shooting.

Next I noticed the Gletcher’s sights, while fixed like the Colt’s, are much better for this kind of shooting. The front blade is very thin, compared to the Colt’s blade that fills the rear sight notch. I felt aiming with the Gletcher was much more precise. The target was lit brightly and I was in the dark, so the sights were a perfect dark silhouette.

From Part 2 I remembered that the pellets have to be seated into the cartridges or they may fall back out. So each pellet was seated deep with the Air Venturi Pellet Pen.

First group

The first group was shot with 7 H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets. They impacted level with the aim point, which was the 6 o’clock spot on the bullseye. But the group was centered an inch to the left — a fact that carried through with all pellets in this test. Seven pellets landed in a group that measures 1.805 inches between centers. Not a good showing!

Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver HN Finale target
Seven H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets made this 1.805-inch group at 10 meters.

Second group

We’ve all seen dramatic differences in accuracy between different pellets, so I was hopeful the second pellet would surprise me. I also needed to know that my shooting was up to par, and a tighter group would do that. But it was not to be. Seven Qiang Yuan Training pellets made a 1.799-inch group that was nearly identical to the first group. If there was a difference, these pellets were spread horizontally while the Finale Match were more vertical.


Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver Chinese target

Seven Qiang Yuan Training pellets made this 1.799-inch group at 10 meters.

 We know from my earlier test that these Chinese pellets are high quality. So at this point I asked myself if perhaps the Nagant revolver just doesn’t like wadcutter pellets at all! Maybe I should try a dome?

Third group

The next pellet I loaded was the RWS Superdome. This time I couldn’t see the group as it formed — because the domed pellet cuts a smaller ragged hole. But Superdomes are the pellet for the Nagant. Seven of them went into 1.323 inches at 10 meters. That’s right there with some of the more expensive pellet revolvers.

Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver HN Finale target
Seven RWS Superdome pellets made this 1.323-inch group at 10 meters. Now, this is a group!

Of course the sad thing is the Nagant’s sights aren’t adjustable, so to move this group requires some Kentucky windage. The groups will open up that way. But for the money, the Geltcher Nagant pellet revolver is a real value. And please remember that this is shooting at 33 feet rather than 25 feet.

Fourth group

I thought I was on a roll after seeing how the Superdomes grouped. Another premium domed pellet would surely do as well, if not better? Not Air Arms Falcon pellets. Seven of them went into 1.967 inches at 10 meters — the worst group of the test. Oh well — at least I learned that it was the pellets and not me that was inaccurate. I could always shoot those Superdomes and make a much smaller group.

Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver Falcon target
Seven Air Arms Falcone pellets made this 1.967-inch group at 10 meters. This was the biggest group of the test!

What have we learned?

First, we learned that the Nagant pellet revolver can be accurate, but it does seem to be fussy about which pellets you use. We also learned that the pellets must be seated within the cartridges to prevent them falling out.

But I think there is one more test to run. How about a test of the Gletcher Nagant BB revolver at 10 meters, shooting these same 4 pellets? That would tie all the loose ends together and give us something to compare.

163 thoughts on “Gletcher Nagant pellet revolver: Part 3

  1. I had higher expectations for this gun. It’s a shame this one is so finnicky.
    I hope Edith feels well enough to come back soon.
    lying in a hospital bed isn’t my idea of a good vacation.




  2. Best wishes to Edith. If it was me I’d be shutting down the blog for a few days so you don’t have to deal with it and all the spam and such that comes with it.


  3. It is fortunate that you found a doctor who could diagnose Edith’s illness. Here is hoping for a speedy recovery.
    On to the Nagent pellet revolver test. I was very impressed with the nice even round holes that were made with the first two pellets. That leads me to ask you what are you using for backing for your targets ? My old Winchester Target cube is trash now after a winter of shooting into it. With this new log in procedure not sure if you recognize me. Before was signing in as Harvey. So best wishes to you and Edith from Harvey in Idaho



      • BB, I am praying for Edith. I wish both of you all the best!

        I have one simple question about CO2 guns which is bugging the heck out of me! I see all kinds of conflicting info about this on the Internet.

        For guns which use 12 gram CO2 cartridges, should the gun be stored without a cartridge in it, or with a full or even partial cartridge?

        I am asking about both short term ( 3 – 4 days) and long term (3 – 24 months) storage.

        I can’t find a consensus on this, but will accept your answer as gospel as you certainly have more knowledge about these things than I do!


  4. Edith and BB
    This may sound different I guess I will say. But Edith kind of reminds me alot of my mom actually. Mom was a very strong willed person and had a very open mind and never judged anybody. Well from what I remember growing up anyway. And ready to set somebody straight if she thought they weren’t doing right.

    Well that’s what I think about Edith. Then all of a sudden have something knock you down. And the same with my mom. I won’t go into details here but my mom was always taking care of somebody then all of a sudden she’s a young 65 years old and then I found myself taking care of her.

    So its hard for me to think that about Edith at the hospital. All I can say is I pray that you get back to your normal life Edith and I will stop at that.


  5. A rifled barrel with totally unadjustable sights is a slightly oddball choice, even if it was a driftable front sight….still, I guess it’s in the interest of authenticity
    Get well soon Edith,
    Dom



    • Dom,

      This was not uncommon for old revolvers. The front sight was bent, filed, or brazed to change point of impact.

      That said, a guy I know who is a pretty competant ameteur machinist dovetailed a front sight base on his remington new army replica- between that and the stoned sear it is one of the nicest shooting pistols I’ve messed with.


  6. We hope and pray Edith will be feeling better soon.

    I know at times like this it is hard to even think straight, but you would think you could at least tell the difference between your left and your right. 😉


  7. Best wishes for Edith’s rapid recovery. You’re both in my prayers now. Edith for her full and rapid recovery, and you to help you deal with everything ( Edith’s health and medical issues, the work you both do here and elsewhere, etc. I see almost daily what my wife has to handle in dealing with my illness’ treatment every three weeks).
    Yes, I’m curious too…will the Nagant bb version give the ssme surprise with pellets that is found in the Umarex Colt SAA? It’ll pretty interesting to see.
    By the way BB, RidgeRunner is correct…Your OTHER right. Lol.


  8. Tom,
    In all seriousness;
    Diagnosis, especially of the “Rare Ones, ” is somewhat of a crap-shoot, and the physician almost always has to play the odds as to the likely cause of the malady. As I’m sure you know by now, likely the Guillain-Barre Syndrome diagnosis is correct, but…
    A few years ago I found myself very near death having traveled through the exotic land of summertime Nebraska.
    How?
    West Nile Disease.
    Who would have thought?
    If things are going well for Edith, ignore me. If not and the mysteries and encephalitis-like neuropathy symptoms persist, at least consider that alternate possibility.
    As before, wishing you and Edith only the best.
    David


  9. Concerned but not surprised.

    Edith has a history of attracting rare and exotic things.

    Considering her quick response to the treatment I’m very optimistic that the medical team has accurately diagnosed her ailment and is giving her proper treatment. I am still praying for her complete and speedy recovery.

    kevin


  10. Hi B.B.

    Thank God Ms. Edith is going to be well soon. Like you said GB syndrome is very rare but responds well to treatment & is curable. I had an uncle who got it after a severe attack of viral flu. He too suffered a bit before the docs fixed it.
    Errol


  11. I was looking forward to this part of your Gletcher review, more or less expecting your pistol to shoot comparable to mine. It’s not the case. Windage on mine is on the money, but, from 10 yds., my Nagant impacts about 4″ high. With the shape of rear notch, and the long, slender front sight, it’s easy enough to establish a sight picture that puts me on target. I have found it easier to load the cartridges while in the cylinder instead of removing them.

    I hope the news on Edith portends a full recovery. She has become as essential to these blogs as its author.



  12. I wish it woulda done well enough to consider a “speed round”. I was wondering if it would act like the XBG pistol I had for a short time.
    When fired rapidly it would stack the trigger for me, leaving only about 1/4 pull and very predictable release.


  13. B.B.,

    First, I am relieved to hear Edith’s condition is treatable. I hope that her recovery is swift and that her pain can be effectively treated as well.

    If I may, I would like to add to your comment above, “Please remember that this is shooting at 33 feet rather than 25 feet.” Other revolvers you have tested with six shots, but this one was tested with seven shots per target. That might seem negligible, but I have learned from reading your blog that even slightly greater niumbers of shots can produce statistically significantly larger groups. Any one of your groups above MIGHT have been quite smaller if just one of the outlying shots were not there.

    Given the accuracy potential of the Colt and perhaps Webley, I think I’ll pass on this one and hope for a Schofield in the future, but there’s no denying this is a sweet little revolver. In fact, if I do get one, it might be because of its small size.

    Michael




  14. B.B.
    Something you said up there reminded me of the 9 shot Sportsman DA revolvers.That’s one replica I’d have to consider even if performance were found to be lacking.


  15. Wishing you a speedy recovery Edith. My wife Mary just got out of hospital after eight days for a spider bite. On the plus side she has finally gotten diagnosed for Lyme and is beginning treatment. Richly ironic to find the epidemiologist at hospital was same doc who told her twelve years ago that Lyme doesn’t exist. Tom, try to be an advocate for the best care available as opposed to insurance and regulations determining treatment protocols.
    -Matt


    • My daughter was diagnosed about 30 years ago with Lyme’s & till she found a Dr that also had Lyme’s things didn’t go well.
      The new Dr Rx a high potency multivitamin & that worked for her. as time went on that got discontinued & a bit of frantic looking found another that worked & later that went out of production so again the hunt was on & now are taking Pure LifeEssence which works.
      Wonder what works for Mary?
      Chuck


  16. Someone please help!
    I’m toying with the idea of pulling one of these Ruger Impact .22’s off the shelf.
    The best I can get online is tha it’s a spring version of the Yukon.
    Supposed to have a really nice trigger and decent cocking effort.


  17. B.B.

    I’m glad to hear news about Edith. Now, when her disease is identified and treatment is known, all I wish her is a good team of medics and complete recovery. She already has a good husband and a team of supporters across the globe 😉


  18. You and Edith have been on my mind all day,….not sure what that say’s,….other than the fact that all you both do matter’s to me. Perhaps,..in reflection,…you both remind me of my Mom and Dad,…both,..very driven with a purpose.

    Hope all continues to go in the right direction.

    Chris




  19. Actually I think you mean the Harrington & Richardson Sportsman Top-Break Revolver in .22 cal. A nine-shot pellet firing replica with a pellet clip system like the Gamo PR-776 would be nifty. Would be less fussy than the pellet cartridge system Webley MK VI replica.



  20. BB
    Very glad to hear Edith is over the hump and on her way back to good health ass I know you have been worried about her as well as your loyal readers but as we all have said your place now is at her side not ours as wee will be here no matter how long it takes.

    Just keep us informed so we can pray and thank the lord for listening to our prayers and keeping Edith here with you and us for a long time to come still.

    God is blessing you both and is with you every day through this so don’t worry about us .

    BD



  21. Hi Tom and Edith,
    I am praying that you get a correct diagnosis and that the illness can be treated and that you will be well soon.
    I am sorry you guys are having to go through another round of illnesses. I hope to see you at the airgun show.

    David Enoch


    • David,

      We think the diagnosis is correct. Edith responds to the treatments well, but she is still loosing mobility.

      This morning she is confined to her bed in the ICU, but this syndrome does that. It comes on suddenly and without warning and then destroys the body in hours. The doctor thinks we caught it early and her prognosis is good.

      B.B.


  22. Ditto to what Buldawg and everyone else has said. We are ALL praying for Edith’s recovery, and for both of you to focus ALL your strength and attention on that goal. We aren’t going anywhere, not any of us. We’ll all be here to greet you both and to give Edith a sincere and heartfelt “Welcome back”.


  23. GB, our family knows it well. My Bro in law was DXed w it some 20 years ago. He got well, but it took some time.

    Hope and Pray you get well sooner rather than later.

    God Bless.

    Geno

    AKA Gene




    • Dave,

      Until this happened I had very little appreciation of MS or how bad it is. They don’t show the suffering and you never see the nasty side of it.

      I’m sorry about your wife, and I now appreciate far more what a burden a disease like MS can be.

      B.B.


      • B.B.
        Thank you!
        Something that has been a benefit for my wife, and may help with Miss Edith, is Tai Chi…slow movements, low stress, and lots of “brain integrations” (making a movement, making a sound, and picturing a color all at the same time). If there are no schools nearby, this DVD is pretty good (endorsed by an instructor with MS): http://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Arthritis-Lessons-Paul/dp/0980357314

        The author made that for his patients with arthritis, and then found that everyone was buying that video instead of his “regular” one. Tai Chi works great for many neurological ailments (says the guy who used it to recover from a spinal fusion operation). =)

        I pray all works out great for Miss Edith; thank you.
        Take care & God bless,
        dave


      • B.B.
        Thank you!
        Something that has been a benefit for my wife, and may help with Miss Edith, is Tai Chi…slow movements, low stress, and lots of “brain integrations” (making a movement, making a sound, and picturing a color all at the same time). If there are no schools nearby, this DVD is pretty good (endorsed by an instructor with MS): http://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Arthritis-Lessons-Paul/dp/0980357314
        The author made that for his patients with arthritis, and then found that everyone was buying that video instead of his “regular” one. Tai Chi works great for many neurological ailments (says the guy who used it to recover from a spinal fusion operation). =)
        I pray all works out great for Miss Edith; thank you.
        Take care & God bless,
        dave



  24. Well I finally gave in and bought the Ruger Impact last night. The trigger is awesome! Cocking effort is a little stout for left handed operation since you have to work around the silencer I put a few through it after tightening the for end screws and the first 3 went through the same hole,the trigger screw that secures it to the stock is a Phillips while all other fasteners appear to be small Allen’s so I missed it until the session was over.
    I’m gonna Loctite em all today. I hope the cocking effort drops by about 5# after break-in. If it does it’ll be the hunting Springer I’ve been looking for, it’s not all that light but manageable without a scope


    • Reb
      Is that a spring gun or gas gun because if it is spring it should take a set and lighten the cocking effort after break in it if is a gas gun then not so much other than just wear in of parts as the gas ram will not take a set like a spring will over time.

      I have looked at the Ruger impact before but just have enough break barrel guns as is so let us know how it turns out and glad its accurate right out of the box, What pellets you shootin.

      BD


      • Yes, it’s a spring version of the Yukon and I did that on purpose. I also wanted to have a good trigger. I don’t think I coulda done much better for the money. It also has a bolt for the pivot so can be tightened if it gets loose. So far I consider it a “best-buy” but that’s reallyB.B.’s call.I’d like to see him test it but I’m sure the 34p is gonna be too close to the same thing but in .177.


        • Reb
          Sounds as though your research has paid off for you and yes all the pluses you have stated are definitely thing required to make a nice shooting and adjustable spring gun in my book.

          So all the pellets are tight in the bore meaning they do not seat flush with the barrel completely or just hard to push to get seated flush with barrel as the bore may wear in some but if you think they are to tight you can lightly sand a small leade into the end of the barrel with a wooden dowel rod and sandpaper on it in a cone shape to just barely open up the leade so that they seat flush easily.

          I have tried the deep seating of pellets in my spring guns gas or coil and have found that I lose 40 to 50 fps over seating flush and found no difference in accuracy with either method so I only seat by hand now and just have to clean the lead build up from the back of the receiver transfer port area occasionally when it builds up as it will show up as a gray flaky build up and starts to affect barrel lock up if not check every 4 to 5 hundred pellets.

          Glad you got a good one and enjoy it and if you want to get the cocking effort lower slightly faster leave it cocked for an hour or so to set the spring but myself would just let it take a set on its own by shooting.

          BD


          • Hard to get em in but I can get em all the way with my fingertips. It also has a ball detention that should wear in nicely but slapping it left handed until then. The silencer is huge and going around it raises the cocking effort because you lose a lot of leverage by not using the muzzle, I haven’t cleaned the barrel due to the silencer being permanently affixed. I know it needs it because all the holes have a black ring around them.
            I may taper a Leade into it or try some fitelapping to loosen the bore but I’ll try more pellets for now.


            • Reb
              Get a drinking straw that fits in the end of the barrel shroud to go to the end of the barrel and use some fishing line with one end tied in a loop to pull some cotton cloth patches thru to clean the barrel and as long as you hold the straw tight against the barrel when pulling the patches thru it you will not harm the baffles or the crown and have a nice clean barrel to shoot with and it may just get even more accurate.

              BD




                  • And I know I’ve read about that trick here but never had one it was necessary on so it got lost in the void that used to be the other half of my brain(I guess) anyway I wouldn’t have remembered it on my own so Thanks again.


                    • Reb
                      You are not alone as my whole mind come and goes as it pleases so at least part of your stays with you all the time as I never know when mine is actually here or not anymore. LOL

                      BD


                  • BD,

                    GF recommended a tip for “cleaning” barrels,….not high fps. After 2500 shots on the TX, the barrel looked as shiney as it was was when new, but I did it anyways. I checked before and after.

                    Plus, I don’t care how many awesome reviews I read on Crosman pellets, I will not shoot them due to the antimony. If I remember correct, that becomes a more negative effect when going above 800fps or so. Less fps, maybe not a problem. ?

                    May chrony the HO tune in the am. Using 15.89 JSB as a baseline.

                    Chris


                    • I bought Crosman pointed pellets to run through the QB-36 because it seems to like them OK and I’ve heard some of these Chinese barrels start out a little rough so I’m still breaking it in. But it’s back to about 600fps by now.
                      I really like this gun and it’s been a insntrumentaltowards getting my offhand shot back.


                    • Chris,USA
                      I am not sure if he ever shared that tip with me so I would like to know what he has told you on cleaning a barrel.

                      I do not shoot the cheap Cps in my FT guns which include my 177 Mrod, B40 and RWS 48 so not an issue there but I know there are many here that shoot the boxed ones with GF1 being one of them so I am not sure just how much the antimony in them actually affect them above 800 fps other than leading the barrel faster possibly.

                      I usually only clean my barrels when first receiving the gun or if accuracy starts to decline from what I know it was shooting so they do not get cleaned much as I have not seen any real decline that I can completely attribute to a dirty barrel and not my own mistakes as all my guns are far more accurate than I am.

                      I just cannot justify shooting high dollar ammo when just plinking with my break barrels or other non target only guns so I do shoot more wally world ammo than high dollar ammo every day I shoot but then that just me as well.

                      BD


        • Reb,

          Your results with that gun mirror what I said earlier about those of my friends and relatives. Glad you got a good gun!

          Wishing you many years of shooting fun!



      • That’s part of the reason I spent so long researching it before the purchase, PA doesn’t have any info on it.
        it’s .22 and apparently a spring version of the Yukon. All my pellets fit too tight, I tried the Ruger siperpoints,CPHP’s and a few JSB Monsters. I just may wind up ordering a pelletgage and 2240 along with some pellets this weekend. I’m impressed so far, I just wish the front sight wasn’t FO but I’m still considering an aperture rear and putting the scope on my 2400 as it’s about 1″ shorter than the Tasco I have on it now and very clear. Can’t remember ever shooting a Springer with such a nice trigger! 🙂


        • Reb,

          Sound’s like you got a good one ! 🙂

          Good luck on the pellet fit. I do find that the one’s that load “nice” are generally the best shooter’s.

          Chris


        • I picked it up at Wally’s and all their boxes have that security device on them anymore so no peeking but fit and finish is beyond price point and the wood sure is Purdy! My only concern is the Styrofoam container holding the scope is bottomless and mine hit the floor on its end, but it also has a piccatinny rail mount in th dovetail that’s metal(I’m guessing aluminum because it’s not attracting any of my magnets. Off to get some chamber lube.

          Reb


      • Oops,missed a spot:
        Range was a measly 10 gfs and I tested it on my armchair, target was a tin beancan with an aluminum beverage can filled with water. Passed all the way through and made it jump about 2″ straight up. 🙂



          • I made a order with PA yesterday and almost got one of those Tech Force M8’s. But I said I was going to wait till BB reviewed it first.

            But got to get some pellets within a week or so when PA gets the pellet in stock that I want. So I think I will order one the M8’s at that time.

            I think that will end up being a nice little plinking gun for me and the kids.


            • Yeah, I was gonna save my money for the Texas show but I kept thinking about missing out on the 34 in .22 and deemed the risk too great for another month at the rate these things are disappearing from their shelves. I don’t think they’d be selling so many without ammo available but I had a talk with the guy that oversees Sporting goods a couple months ago and all seems normal again



              • BB
                Please don’t worry about testing the M8 because of me. Do it when you can.

                I know you have much more important things on your mind. Please be with Edith and it will be great that she can have something to say about the M8 as well as you.

                We talked about the trigger a while back. And I know you both where looking into that.

                So I appreciate that you are testing it and it will be great to read about it. And yes I can wait.

                Thanks.



            • Reb,

              I got to ask,…what is a QB-36 ? The only thing that comes to mind is Quackenbush (sp?).

              You got one of those? High power and high $ I believe.

              Post a pic if you can. Never heard of one.


              • Chris, USA
                The QB-36 is a Chinese spring gun that shoots in the low to mid 600 fps and is like my B40 and no longer made but was a copy of another high end gun I just cannot remember which one as the b40 is the clone of a TX and the QB -36 is a clone of another one but Reb you can tell you more or just google it Chris and you will find your answer.

                BD


                • BD,

                  Outa’ room above,…..on the Crosman pellets and the cleaning…..From past articles and comment’s, including B.B.’s, the antimony and more frequent cleaning was just one variable I was seeking to eliminate. B.B. test with them and many people shoot them. I do not have any basic air rifles (yet) but I may give em’ a go if I ever get one. Plus, I guess that since I am always trying to best myself, I wanted the extra assurance that the “premium” one’s are supposed to offer with weight and head consistancy.

                  As for my comment on the +800fps…….I checked my notes and could find nothing. I did condense the notes awhile back, so when I re-read them, I must have figured it was something that I won’t be doing anyway (shooting Crosmans) so I left it out of the new notes.

                  I’m sure that info. with regards to antimony, fps and cleaning is in past articles. Just have not gone back a re-researched it.

                  Good tip on the straw. It would be nice if all baffles were easily removed. I do believe there are issues with removable sound/flash/supressors though. Or, at least, can be legal issues depending on the configuration.

                  Chris


              • Nothing fancy. It’s basically a B-23/3 with a stock that makes it resemble a HW97.This one was around 675 when freshly rebuilt with an old ,used b-3 spring and Moly & 0 preload.
                it sat in my closet for about 6 mos until a few weeks ago when I needed some weight to settle my offhand shot and it’s working like a champ so far.


                • Reb
                  Glad to hear that spring is still holding up to the QB and keeping it shooting good, its been a while since I have shot my b3s and just think I need to shoot them some tomorrow as they to have been sitting since all my new toys have booted them to the side.

                  I think I will see about putting one of my cheap crosman scopes on the 3-2 and see if I can get it to hit what I want as the stock front sight is so misaligned from abuse that I tried to bend it so it was close enough to be able to adjust the rear sight to hit accurately but just got frustrated with it and gave up as new toys came along.

                  BD


                • Reb,

                  Thanks for the reply. See B.B.’s comment to Henry TX below. Apparenty chamber lube is not good in some cases. I guess it depends on wether or not you have a synthetic or leather piston seal. I would have thought that in ’92 that seal would have been synthetic, but hey, what do I know.


                  • Chris,

                    No, this isn’t between leather and synthetic. The seals in these recoiless Diana were always synthetic.

                    It’s about flawed synthetics from the 1970-s that dry-rotted over time/ Walther, FWB and Diana all used them and they always fail.

                    The repairman who fixed the gun must have installed an old synthetic seal that was already degraded from sitting one the shelf. Shooting the gun just sped up the process.

                    B.B.



            • Reb
              Look in the fishing section at wally world for some silicone oil for fishing reels as they should have some that will do the job and be cheaper than the air gun branded stuff but is the same quality oil.

              Or try a RC hobby shop that sells cars as they use pure silicone oil in the shocks on the off road cars and you can get it in 10 to 90 weight in 2 ounce bottles for 10 bucks and look for Team Associated brand as it is what I use and have had no issue and I use 50 weight so it last for 1000 shots or more you just have to give it a few minutes to drain into the chamber so what I do which may be difficult for you is to open the breech but not fully cock the gun and put 2 or 3 drops in the transfer port then slowly work the barrel open and closed without fully closing it to distribute the oil inside the chamber then close barrel fully for a second or two and reopen to wipe any excess that is forced out from the piston completely filling the chamber space then let sit overnight on it butt end and it will be ready to shoot the next day.

              You say it is honking when cocking so one question is did it detonate at all when first shooting it or do you think it was a dry gun at assembly.

              BD


              • Day”s running done in while at my buddy’s place and the power went Kaput.
                I have 2 frame mount pumps bet they both require holes in the frame so neither has been mounted yet had to call a ride but I’m home now 🙂




                • Chris, USA
                  BB is exactly correct as I built a 1974 FWB 124 for a friend about two years ago because it would no longer shoot a pellet out the barrel and when cocking it you could see some yellow gritty particle stuck in the transfer port and barrel. Upon disassembly I found just the small taped lower portion of the piston seal still in place on the piston nose as the rest of the seal was long gone and disintegrated into sand size pieces that was seen in the transfer port and barrel so a good cleaning and lubing with new seal and it was back shooting at a respectable 800 fps and a satisfied friend ( I hope to get to purchase that 124 one day if he ever decides to part with it ).

                  On your TX and the LGU the shroud/baffles are not removable at least not by the end user with any reasonable chance of removing and reinstalling without damage as the shroud is pressed on the barrel with rubber bands between the two holding the shroud/baffles in place very securely and a special tool and press would be needed to get it off and the shroud would most likely be damaged in the process so you would need a new shroud and the proper equipment to reinstall all of it without damage hence the straw trick to prevent the patches from becoming dislodged from fishing line and getting stuck in the baffling where you would pull your hair out trying to remove them.

                  BD



                    • Chris, USA
                      We are more alike than you realize as up until 09 when I got laid off from Harley my hair was down to my belt as well when fully braided and at the butt crack when not.

                      I cut it ( OUCH ) with the thoughts of it giving me a better chance and finding another good job like at Harley but the economy would not allow that so went to work back at car dealership and then salvage bike shop until fall of 2013 when my health left me, but it is half way down my back again and still growing although not near as fast as I would like and it way to thin right on top from years of wearing hats and helmets causing damage to the hair follicles. Never liked hair cuts a I always saw them as an unnecessary expense and Jesus never cut his hair so it a social standard of which I never conformed and never will.

                      So no hair pulling for me either. LOL

                      BD


              • It’s so quiet I don’t think it’s detonated but there was smoke during the first10 shots or so.
                I think it came dry and I smell the synthetic burning so I feel like I should do something.


                • Reb
                  It will not hurt to add a few drops of silicone oil just so you know it is lubed and when you do so it should detonate for a couple shot regardless of silencer or not you will hear it as it will be as loud as a 22LR round being fired so that will tell you if it was dry or not.

                  all my high powered spring guns whether silenced or not when oiled with silicone detonate for 2 or so shots and it is very audible and sounds just like a PBA pellet breaking the sound barrier only is heard right when fired instead of a second or so later with the pellet slightly down range.

                  I myself would oil it just to know it is in fact got lube on the seal and inside the chamber but only a couple drops and not more than 5 at the very most work the barrel as I stated above and let sit overnight to coat chamber completely before shooting.

                  BD


                  • Working on getting outta here right now I may have to pick up a boresnake too. I don’t have that braided line that I cleaned the QB-36 barrel anymore and mono keeps getting caught in the baffles


                    • Reb
                      that’s what the straw is for to keep the mono from being caught in the baffles and it works as long as you hold the straw in place against the crown when pulling the mono thru the baffle area.

                      Never had any issues with mine.

                      BD


            • Reb, I plan to post on this tomorrow but I know you will get an e-mail. The replacement nitro piston arrived Friday. I installed it on Saturday. It was fairly easy and I didn’t hurt myself this time around. I wish I had some objective information. When I first bought the Titan it was fairly easy to cock but I accepted it as “the way it’s supposed to be”. With no chronograph or reasonable means to measure cocking effort, I just don’t know. I still lack an objective means to measure these things, but I can tell you that cocking effort is now considerably greater. I don’t know about muzzle velocity or FPE. Greater cocking effort doesn’t necessarily mean other things are greater. However, again, my subjective experience tells me it is hitting harder. Consistency and accuracy are the two remaining questions. ~ken


              • Ken, you should get a chrongraph! I’m glad I got mine before I wanted half what’s available now and they can be had cheaper but it was less than the price of a decent gun and can help you decide how decent a deal it is.
                I can’t wait for someone to offer an adjustable gas spring again.
                Glad you got er going again! But I still wanna hear some chrony figures before I pass judgement.
                Also hope it hits where you’re aiming!


  25. Off topic here, but at least it involves air pistols. I shoot both a Beretta 92FS (9mm) and a Ruger GP-100 5″ barrel (yes, 5″) .357/.38 revolver. (S&W seems to think their weapons are engraved in gold while Colt thinks they’re made of gold 🙂 I am reasonably competent with both. My spouse didn’t like the small Ruger semi-auto we’d gotten (blow back and way too heavy trigger. LC9 I think.) With this in mind we picked up a 2.5″ barrel Taurus revolver in the same calibers. In single action she is much improved though double action is still a challenge.

    I’ve been searching for CO2 pellet equivalents for each of these firearms to improve hold, aim, and handling in the backyard, I’ve found the Beretta FS analyzed in this forum a few years back. It seemed to do well at 10 meters though it got knocked on accuracy. (At $225!) A Dan Wesson SW clone snub nose seems to be a good fit, though the load each fake shell thing is time consuming. (~$125) Finally in looking at large frame revolvers the S&W 686 pellet seems superb but at a nosebleed price of >$250 so am looking at the Gamo PR-776. (~$100)

    Still this totals to ~$500 if I buy the 3 pistols along with extra clips, fake shells, and light weight pellets. I don’t care about blowback, lasers, scopes, and other “cool” gadgets – just looking for reasonable approximations so as to improve skill without the cost of real ammo. The shooting is intended to be target not plinking.

    Really interested in feedback on any of these weapons particularly in light of improving handling and accuracy. Last CO2 BB pistol I had was a Gamo something a long time ago. Hard to hit anything if you weren’t real close.

    Thanks

    BB, I’ve twice been down with something the doc’s couldn’t ID so they “practiced” medicine on me. Got a cure one time, but still have lingering effects from the second. Comes from spending too much time working in strange places with local food and customs. Glad they seem to have a handle on your wife’s condition.


    • I have Smith and Wesson revolvers in both a 586 4″ barrel and a 686 6″ barrel! Need I say more?

      They are great guns! Velocity on the 6″ barrel is higher than rated! With 7.33 grain pellets and a new CO2 cylinder, I averaged 475 fps for 5 shots! This is WAY above what they advertise! Accuracy on my 586 was great, 1/2″ groups, but unfortunately after several thousand rounds, a spring broke and it now needs repair!

      Just got the 686, only tested 3 pellets to date, and best group was only .86″ edge to edge. Some were as large as 2.5″ edge to edge so will not be using those pellets.

      I really love these guns, just have to find some one to fix my 586! But if you look around you can get a bargain on them used! My 686 was only $150, half of what PA wants new, and it looks pristine! Even with shipping and fees, total was $163. I consider this one of the best bargains I have gotten in the last 10 years! Oh, and it came with 6 “magazines” or clips or what ever you call them!

      I think I paid about $215 about 10 years ago for the 4″ barrel 586.

      So yeah, get one and enjoy it. I highly recommend them!


  26. OntheRez,

    I have the Umerex 92FS in Nickle/wood. I can recommend it. Rested at 24′ it will do 1″ pretty consistant. Most are 3/4″ with a flier or two. Shooting cheap pellets though. 3000 shots through it. The thumbwheel for the Co2 is hard to work, but was good at start. Pulled it, wire brushed it and never siezed it. Still tight, but I work around it. Get the Laser site. It’s great. I also painted the sights for non-laser. Trigger is good in single action, but not measured.

    That’s my input,….Chris ( see the nickle/wood review(s) on P.A.site. I got 2 on there.


  27. BB,
    I am a newbie member of this forum, although I have been a silent reader for a few months. Before getting to my point, I want to thank you for a fantastic job and please forward my heartfelt wishes for Edith’s quick recovery.

    All,
    (My apologies if I am posting this in the wrong forum). I have a question about a different air pistol, a RWS-Diana Mod. 6G which I bought new in ’92. It did shoot quite well for a long time with no problems, although i found it somewhat hold sensitive in spite of the dual-piston “recoilless” mechanism. I sent it for professional maintenance once many years ago and it continued working as good as new. Well, now something went bad, really bad. It started throwing random low power shots which printed as high fliers. It got progressively worse until finally it left a pellet stuck in the barrel. As expected, the crony confirms the wide velocity spread. Time for surgery. I have done some work on firearms and air rifles (D-34) but I read that taking apart this pistol is too complex for non-experts. Any advice before I turn my G-6 into a bunch of lose springs and assorted parts? Thanks in advance,
    Henry


    • henry,

      Welcome to the blog.

      Your problem is classic to the Dianas of that timeframe, though the reseal should have fixed it. Your piston seal has dry-rotted. Chamber oil will cause it faster than doing nothing. Pyramyd Air can reseal it with a bluer seal that will outlast you.

      B.B.


      • Thanks for your answer BB, but I am afraid that it is more serious than dry seals. I remember being told at the time by the Diana repair shop that the seals were synthetic. Worse yet, sometimes it is difficult to break open, like something is binding inside. Perhaps a broken spring? We’ll see.


    • Hey Henry,

      Let me start out by saying I am jealous. There is no hope for your pistol, just send it to me. 😉

      Seriously though, I second BB’s recommendation. Contact Pyramyd Air about it.


    • Henry,

      Exact same thing happened to me! Pistol had been sitting for 20+ years and the second pellet through would not leave the barrel. I did not know that PA does repair/tuning services? I mean something more than the 10 for 10 or 20 for 20. I ended sending mine to David Slade at AirgunWerks. Still waiting…
      Please update with what you end up doing. Love the 6 G. Nice trigger, shelf hard to fit. Fun gun and more accurate than I am!

      -Yogi


      • Thanks for your comments Yogi and sorry for the late reply (I was out of town). I agree about the trigger feel and I would like to add to the list of pluses weight distribution, sights, etc. I am not too hot about the grip, but it is not bad enough (or I am too lazy) to work on it.
        Anyway, to answer your question, I decided to take it apart myself taking the time to do it right. After all this is my hobby. Well, one of them. I found some not too clear instructions and a parts breakdown so I have enough to get started. Of course, I will proceed carefully taking pictures in the process, much better than memory alone. Only problem is the heat in my work room (S Texas) so I will probably wait until it gets cooler. Meanwhile, I have a new Silhouette to break-in. Best!


  28. BB, I hope everything is going well.

    How hard to service are these double-piston Dianas anway?

    I’ve serviced my FWB300S myself, before reading that it was “very difficult”. It took me some time, but I didn’t have any real problems. I wonder if it’s the same with these Giss system guns.

    BTW, I have permission to translate the FWB300S guide from the people who did the text, but no reply yet from the person who made the photos. I’m going to wait a little longer…

    Stephan


  29. Chrony results from the TX200 in .22…1) stock, 2) Vortek 12 fpe. (modded a bit) and the 3) Vortek HO stock kit.
    JSB 15.89 used in all 3. Factory stock piston seal used.

    LO 622 527 628
    HI 639 536 650
    AVG 631 537 643
    SPREAD 17.2 9.4 21.6
    S.D. 6.5 3.0 6.0

    As you can see, no real power gain with the Ho vs stock. It (is) smoother with the HO kit due to the spring dampening tubes though. The only “added bits” with the HO stock kit was a rubber o-ring and a flat washer at the piston end of the spring. No top hat is required, nor is provided, with the HO kit. I just did not want the spring riding directly on the piston surface.

    Chris


    • Chris USA
      But look at the spread from the 12 fpe tune verses the spread of the stock and HO tune.

      It looks like at a spread of 9.4 the 12 fpe tune could make a more consistent group when you shoot.

      Have you got any data comparing groups of the 3 different tunes on your Tx verses fps spread?


      • Gunfun1,

        You are of course 100% correct on the spread. It should make for a more consistant group.

        As for target data,….yea, I got that in spades. I just need to look at it a little harder. With about 8 pellet types, some are better with the HO, some worse, with most near same. I will give a fuller report in the future. I can say that there is nothing dramatic. Heck, I can vary 10mm. with a good day vs a bad day.

        I will be doing the 100 per pellet test vs the 50 as much as supply allows. Steady and follow through are always a challenge. Plus I have played with scope height, relief, length of pull and trigger release pressure along the way. Front hard rest just got bumped up another 3/4″. So, all that factors in as well.

        While I got ya, let me know the LGU hold under for 25. I believe you zero at 50 and hold under from there. My 50 is not good enough for sight in/zero. That’s assuming that you left the scope set at a 50 zero. I’ll stick with the 15.89’s. No point in messing with a perfect thing, eeehhhh?

        Chris


        • Chris USA
          Remember I had to take the scope off of it. You will have to sight it back in.

          And I had that scope zeroed at 30 yards. I plugged the scope hieght and the other things into chairgun and that was the distance to zero at that kept the poa the closest to reticle center at different distances.

          You’ll just have to put it on and see. And I know your going to want to collect your own data anyway. Right. 🙂


          • GF1,

            Yup…..you know I will. 😉 Looking forward’s to trying a Hawke scope vs the UTG/Leapers.

            I really need to get into the Chairgun more. But in the end, it’s all about actual shooting. Maybe when the snow is a flyin’ I’ll check it out more in depth. 90 degree’s and un-godly humid today. But did get in 90+ shots earlier. My 50yd. alum. can finally fell apart in 2 pieces. At least I can do THAT at 50yds. 😉

            Chris

            Chris


            • Chris USA
              What’s good about chairgun is it gives you something to start with.

              If you just pick some distance to zero at and shoot you will need to shoot at different distances and record your holds. With chairgun it gives a graph of the pellet trajectory. All you have to do is change your scope zero distance and it will show how it moves the graph. Mainly your kill zone range. I like to keep my kilk zone setting at one inch.

              You really should plug your numbers in on chairgun and see what happens when you change your zero distance. Then when it tells you the best distance zero your gun that way then shoot and record your holds.

              That’s how I use chairgun. Remember it’s just a estimate not a set in stone exact thing of how your gun will shoot. But it gets you in the ballpark quicker than just zeroing at different distances and recording results from shooting at the different distances. Just saved a little time.


            • Chris, USA
              GF1 is right you need to plug your chrony number into chairgun to get a better idea of where to start with a proper zero range for the best and longest mil dot hold over/under range.

              I use it for my 177 Mrod FT sighting and use a 1/2 inch kill zone as that is the smallest size target I have to hit on the FT range and it can be at 10 or 55 yards so having a good place to start your zero sigh in makes a huge benefit in terms of hold over/unders..

              My 177 is sighted for zero at 40 yards which at my power level gives me a dead zero hold from 20 to 40 yards and 1 mil dot under from 41 to 55 yards and 2 mil dots under from 19 to 10 yards so I never have to hold over and have only three ranges/ hold unders to remember and all that is with a 1/2″ kill zone setting.

              BD


              • BD,

                Nice info. Yea,….I really need to check it more. Sounds real handy in your FT situation.

                And yes, I will not waste 50 or 100 shots on a poor grooper. I will give it 20 or so and if it ain’t shapeing up pretty quick, it’s out’a here.

                Chris,….outa’ here 😉

                Chris


                • Chris, USA
                  Yea no need to waste time sighting and shooting if you are not improving your results or making hitting targets less complicated and more fun at the same time.

                  Time is money and if a pellet is not going to group good by twenty shots it aint going to group at 50 or 100 shots either.

                  BD



    • Reb,

      Congratulations on that !!!! I have yet to try off hand. I might look like I’m pressure washing the side of a house !!! 😉 At least that might be the view from the scope end of things.


      • In my opinion it’s the purest form of shooting and I only used the bench for testing the guns. Prior to this stroke I was hitting at 60 yards with my 392 and 80 with my Airmaster. But I’ve still got a long way to go.


    • Off hand shooting is definitely something that takes alot of practice. That’s what we did when we was kids out in the woods shooting.

      Took us a bit to figure out what tree branches were for. 🙂



      • I’m so glad I have the QB-36 to practice with! It’s easy to cock left handed so I don’t have to change hands or set it on the ground and although I’m outta it’s favorite pellet it’s still proving to be accurate enough for work under 30 yds.




      • Chris, USA
        Its called loosing your mind and it gets worse the older you get as most days I am not even sure mine is still with me or if it is it not always between my ears. LOL

        BD


  30. BB, now that I’ve FINALLY mastered the new login (by which I mean no criticism whatsoever…problems entirely due to my own thick skull!), I wanted to pass along my best to you and Edith.

    Both patient and carefiver are in our thoughts and prayers in ol’ East Tennessee, may you both be full speed as soon as possible!



  31. BB I just read that Edith is not feeling well and sure will place both of you on our pray list. I’ll be praying for a speedy recovery and for the doctors to make the right decisions on her treatment.

    Have a blessed day


  32. Looks like I am really late to the party on this gun but here goes. I got one of these in November 2017 and really liked it a lot. Even got extra cartridges. Anyway put about 3 or 4 cylinders through it (gets at least 60 or 70 good shots a cylinder) then didn’t fire for a while. Just tried it again couple of days ago, and the CO2 cylinder won’t seal. Dumps it all with dry ice, etc. So it is out of warranty so i decided to try to fix. Tried the teflon tape quick fix did nothing. Got the seal out and turned it around, slight improvement just dumps slower. Tried a Crosman seal (why not?) no luck. Can’t find the replacement seal anywhere on the usual sites. Any suggestions before i start trying to make my own seal?
    Thanks


    • Hugh,

      Welcome to the blog.

      Have you tried putting ATF Stop Leak on the existing seal yet? It fixes a lot of seal problems. Unless you overtightened the piercing screw and tore the seal, it should s=work.

      Other=wise, I would send it to Pyramyd Air. I’m sure they can fix i9t for you.

      B.B.


  33. Hi B.B.
    Sorry if this is a duplicate reply. Haven’t tried the ATF Stop leak, will give it a shot. Any idea where to get a new seal for this gun? Tried everywhere online and can’t find anywhere. It’s a really nice little gun hope I can get it fixed.
    Hugh


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