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Education / Training 2016 Pyramyd Air Cup: Part 2

2016 Pyramyd Air Cup: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

This report covers:

  • The matches
  • Field target
  • Strange airgun
  • Fun guns
  • Air Bolt
  • Rockin’ rat target
  • The end

The matches

Let’s get right to it. The Pyramyd AIR Cup is a series of airgun matches, with field target being the premiere sport, followed by the Pyramyd Gunslynger and then the Pay Day Challenge. The Pay Day Challenge is first and the $200 prize gets everyone in the mood for competing. It’s a total of 10 shots at field targets with sighted-in rifles provided by Pyramyd AIR. Five shots are at 40 yards off a benchrest with an HW S100 PCP rifle. Then 3 shots offhand at 25 yards with an Air Arms S200 FT, and finally 2 shots offhand at 15 yards with a Condor. All targets have 1.5-inch kill zones.

The offhand targets were the most challenging, by far. Many shooters, including some of the top world-class shooters) didn’t think the Condor I was judging was sighted-in, because they missed the target at least one time, but I shot it left-handed and nailed the kill zone. I think the problems were just unfamiliarity with the rifle. I saw many shooters refuse to get the rifle into the correct position on their shoulder and were thus unable to see through the scope. They said they didn’t like the feeling of the butt plate high on their shoulders.

The two Pay Day Challenge winners (a tie between Dave Hitchcock and John Eroh) split the $00 prize between them.

The Pyramyd Gunslynger is a modified silhouette match shot from the bench, and both time and accuracy are the enemies. You must clear all the silhouettes off their stands in your lane to stop the clock. There are classes for PCP rifles and for spring pistons, with a $1,000 cash prize for each. Greg Sauve won the PCP and Eric Brewer took the piston class.

Field target

The field target match was held over two days and had the largest number of shooters. The classes are Open, Hunter and WFTF. Many of the shooters were nationally ranked and those that weren’t were still good shots. People traveled to Ohio from all over the country to compete in this match that was an AAFTA-sanctioned Grand Prix match.

The prizes were guns and equipment, and the winners in each class got a chance at about a $900 prize. Overall champion was Greg Sauve.

match briefing
Each day of competition began with a match briefing from Tyler Patner.


field targetThis is part of the line on one of the two field target courses. Competitors shot one course per day.

This competitor is seated in the classic field target position.



If I ever compete again, this is how I’ll do it.

Once the competition began, the ranges with fixed targets cleared out and the vendor’s tables became very accessible. This is when I did most of my work.

Strange airgun

I told you yesterday that I saw a strange airgun. Here it is. It’s a Setra rifle that resembles a Sheridan model F. The owner says he believes only around 3,500 of them were made, and looking at how much it copies a Sheridan I am inclined to believe that. I’m sure Sheridan got lawyers on the company as soon as the Setra surfaced!

This Setra C02 rifle is .177 and bulk fill. Except for the caliber it resembles a Sheridan model F more than a little.

I don’t know where it was made, or when, but the production run was short. It was found on Craig’s List and definitely qualifies as a find.

Fun guns

Even though I couldn’t see that well, I did get to shoot at the Cup. Ruth Kass’ husband, Bryan, brought a satchel full of his Crosman pistols for me to try. I shot a 1300, a 1322, a 2240, a Mark I and a Crosman 600.

Tom 600
I shot Bryan Kass’ Crosman 600 a lot!

We burned through many CO2 cartridges — especially with that 600 that we both enjoyed shooting so much. And I went through a large portion of a tin of pellets. It was an enjoyable time for both of us.

Air Bolt

The public was treated to an Air Venturi Air Bolt demonstration, plus the opportunity to shoot. Part of the backstop was a cinder block, until two shots demolished it! That Air Bolt is one powerful airgun!

Air Bolt
The Air Bolt was demonstrated at the Cup.

Two Air Bolts cracked this cinder block in half!

Rocking rat target

At the Pyramyd AIR table there were many newer products I had never seen. Among them was a neat field target called the rocklin’ rat. It’s both a spinner and a field target that also tells you when you have hit the faceplate of the target. I plan to review it for you soon.

rockin' rat
I saw this rockin’ rat target, and you’re going to see it soon.

Pyramyd AIR president, Val Gamerman, also told me about several other new targets they have. I asked to get them to test for you, so you’re going to see some of the Cup whether you like it or not! One target is electronic and operates like a shooting gallery!

The end

For me the Cup was over at 10 a.m. on day 3, because I had to dash back to Cleveland to catch a plane home. Both my flights were fine, but a Delta plane just before me had an engine failure on takeoff and had to return to the Atlanta airport.

I’m home now, but still thinking of all that I saw during those 3 days. Like all airgun shows I attend, this one left some lasting memories that I will share with you in the coming months.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

69 thoughts on “2016 Pyramyd Air Cup: Part 2”

  1. I guess you have in place some kind of moderation system, so maybe this post won’t be published because of the links, hope you can visit this website anyway.
    Here you have some brief SETRA history:
    It’s in spanish, but there is plenty photographs and dates.
    More info:

    • That is pretty awesome. I can certainly see where they would have legal difficulties with importing their air rifles into the U.S. It would be interesting to see how they compare performance wise.

  2. For some reason after looking at the pics of Al Otters rifle the term ‘Steampunk’ come to mind !
    My two RAI quad railed Marauders with folding stocks seem kinda tame … Hell of an innovator !!

    Bob M

    • Bob M.,

      I liked Mr. Otter’s innovation’s as well. I have the M-rod with the RAI stock. I love it X10. On the folder however, I was not able to get rid of the “slop” in it. I used it for initial set up, but took it off later. There is after market stocks that fold, but pretty pricey. Mine ended up with a FAB Defense 6 position stock with riser, UTG sniper grip front and rear and a UTG bipod with square legs, 5″-8″, that also pivots, mounted behind the front grip. Works (perfect) for bench rest.

      One tip if you have a bi-pod too,…… I put a pellet can, along with some “shims” of flat rubber and then top it off with a bit of gasketing that has some compression to it. I use that under the rear pistol grip. I “prop” up the rear to the point where the cross hairs are (under) the bull by about 1 1/2-2 mil-dots. When lightly shouldered and ready to shoot, slight pressure (down) on the pistol grip will bring the cross-hairs (up) to bull. Rock solid and dead steady. So much so,…. that it ought to outlawed.

      I suppose front and rear bags would work as well. My set up holds position with all hands off and is nice for holding the rifle in position for looking downrange for “critters” that are crossing the wooded 100 yard lane.

      If that type of set up was (is?) allowed in bench rest competition, I would give some thought to competition.

      At any rate, just wanted to say that I like my RAI set-up as well. Couldn’t tell,… could ya? 😉 Chris

      • Chris

        An analytical mind is a wonderful thing to have. Thanks for the advise.
        Slop in a folding stock is almost a given. The price you pay for compactness. There probably are some tight ones out there for a price and you may be able to sort of fine tune one to minimize play. I have actually drilled out and installed a screw and nut on one to turn it into a fixed stock. It was not an AR type though.

        Bob M

  3. Apologies for being off-topic, but this question may actually be somewhat appropriate for this “commentariat”.

    The short story: I may soon have an opportunity to start teaching shooting classes at what is being billed as a nascent “folk school” here where I live (think “community education”, “neighbors teaching neighbors”, etc.). From the sound of it, the school may be interested in growing a curriculum, given appropriate demand, and I’ve given them much to think about already. A cornerstone of what I’ve submitted features the deliberate use of Airsoft guns and airguns in foundation and development classes*, reserving the powderburners for more specialized (and offsite) sessions later in the chain.

    And here, then, is my question: Does Pyramyd AIR have any sort of program for working with schools or similar education efforts, that I might be able to tap into? I simply have no idea, but if there is something like that available, it could make a big difference to a small startup, at any level of support. (I’m anticipating something on the scale of 4-8 student classes.) And if PA doesn’t do such a thing, is there another business or “friends” organization that might? I’m happy to get creative, in order to help get this off the ground!

    Anyway, again, both B.B. and this “commentariat” often display a huge breadth of knowledge and awareness, and I thought it was worth asking the question.

    * The logic and specifics of this idea, I will gush shamelessly, would never have happened in my mind but for the incredible value I have found by lurking at this blog for a few years now.

  4. BB,

    Went to check out the new targets and ran across this.


    Hey! It has real sights on it!

    If they maintain the quality that Diana has come to be known for, I think the new owners are going to take Diana to the forefront of the airgun world.

    • RidgeRunner,

      What makes me scratch my head is why did they have to make the iron sights so high that it will interfere with scope placement. Judging by the pictures they don’t seem the type to be easily removed.

      Maybe they are trying to evoke the memory of an African guide’s gun with express sights?


      • Siraniko,

        I do not know if they are removable, but I suspect such. The reason they are as high as they are is due to the straight stock. It is indeed reminiscent of hunting rifles.

        Because of the straight stock, you would likely need to mount a scope on medium / high mounts for a proper eye alignment. Unless you mount a exceptionally long scope on it, I seriously doubt they would interfere.

        With sights like those, I would be strongly tempted to not mount a scope on this air rifle. I will wager these sights are exceptional.

  5. B.B.,

    Nice follow up report. I look forward to when P.A. gets their report up. I do suppose it takes a bit of time to edit all of the text, photos and videos though.

    Again, great job on the report(s).


  6. The Pyramid Cup is getting larger each year.
    Also gets better as the manufacturers realize the captive audience of high end shooters from around the country, and bring more products to show off.
    I am the fella from Central Ohio Airgunners that limped around from having back surgery a week and a half before the cup. Not even surgery will keep me away from hanging with fellow airgunners. It’s always a pleasure to speak with you Mr. Gaylord, one of the reasons I goto the Cup. I need to remember to make a list of questions, that I forget to ask you. My .58 Outlaw Carbine Custom will be there with me next year, we will make some noise.
    I will be shooting HFT next year, piston class, I have a 54 that I’ve been tricking out, I was ready to win the Cup prior to my surgery…lol. I hope your eyesight makes a full recovery, would love to shoot a match with you Sir.
    See you next year, I’ll be the one camping out in the ranges parking lot 😉
    Take good care, and have fun !

      • A few members of my club were competing, texting me of the festivities on Friday. The thought of missing out was more than I could handle, I hitched a ride for Saturday. Watching my buds compete, and cheering them on was well worth any discomfort 🙂
        Dedication, yes. Airgunitus?, you betcha 😉

  7. Rained out,……. 🙁

    Headed out this AM and set up at the shooting bench. Goal for the day? Get that 10-15 pound Ground Hog that I saw yesterday. Yesterday, after sitting for several hours,…. a ground hog came in from my right at the 70 yard,.. paused in the middle of the lane for a second and then proceeded up the lane in a rather leisurely manner,.. before departing off to my left at the 90 yard. I am not sure if “butt” shots are the recommended method for dispatching such critters,…. but I did not take the shot. A nice head or heart/lung shot would be better. The .25 M-rod with 33.95’s would do it. Oh well,……… (ground hogs are why I got into airgunning in the first place a couple of years ago). In hind sight, I should have made a noise to see if I could have got him to stop and raise up.

    My .25 Pelletgage will be here today. Looking forwards to giving it a hard workout and doing the testing that will follow. Testing will be at 70 yards. I will do some head sort only,.. and then do some head sort with weighing thrown in too. Stay tuned for anyone interested in the Pelletgage at all.

    Looks like the rain is passed, but with all the tree’s…. it will be dripping wet for quite a few. It may be Ol’ Mr. Groundhog’s unlucky day yet if I get back out.

    Good Day All,….. Chris

      • B.B.,

        Had to ponder your comment for a few,…… Not a deer hunter,… but I imagine that for either critter, in either state,…… a “butt” shot would be considered to be “tad” on the unethical side.

        On the other hand,… a powder burner with enough “oooomfph” would get the job done on a deer. Then again,….. you guy’s have them little “baby versions” of a deer down there,…. or so I have “heard”,….. me not being a deer hunter and all. 🙂


        • Chris,

          The target with a Texas Heart Shot is the center of that little circle the deer presents you as it going away from you with its tail up. Effective with a powder burner, but messy to dress out the deer.


    • Chris & RidgeRunner

      I can see adding every gadget you can to your rifle if it helps you out when you are hunting.

      Now I have a seemingly endless supply of gophers and such and occasionally I use the gadget itself to help in the hunt. The other day I was out of ammo so I removed the compact QD folding shovel / bi-pod and cut one in half … on the run ! I think the blinding strobe light slowed him down !
      All kidding aside, anything that helps that one shot work is fine with me.

      As far as competition goes, I guess the sky’s the limit … as long as it’s equal. I imagine there are various classes such as open sights only. Sargent York comes to mind there.

      Bob M

  8. Sounds fun. Glad to see that PA is keeping the offhand discipline alive. So shooters missed a 1.5 inch target at 25 yards just once? How about all the time?! Did you see any SWAT or military snipers freak out at the skill of the field target shooters?

    ChrisUSA, I have to admit that my chopstick and thread idea for the English war bow is not looking so good by the light of day. I may be determined, but I must admit that at times it is discouraging. I have spent 20 years exhaustively studying the swimming technique. I’ve read all the studies including technical ones about the Navier-Stokes equations for fluid flow; I’ve had lessons from Olympic medalists including Janet Evans herself; I’ve spent hours in the pool; And I’ve endured loud laughter at various experiments that I’ve tried. But the other day, this fat guy with poor technique blew me away in the pool! At a long ocean race in the Virgin Islands a friend told me that a guy who had finished far ahead of me had a midsection shaped like a pyramid. Maybe it was Mark Spitz. Now I find that slim characters are drawing warbows with ease!? Maybe the universe is trying tell me something.

    Richardwales, I’m a big fan of bowstringers. The conservation of energy says that the effort to bend a bow for stringing can’t be eliminated but it can be made to seem much easier with larger muscles and proper alignment which amounts to the same thing. With my bowstringer, I can pull up on the bow in the manner of a deadlift to bend it. But the problem is that the more force I apply this way, the more difficult it is to reach sideways to the end of the bow to loop the string over the end. That becomes more true of very long and stiff bows. The shearing forces on the spine are scary with even a 60lb bow, so I don’t know how to manage a bow that’s twice as heavy. I’ll have to figure something out to live up to my caveman ancestors who excelled at these kinds of problems.

    I’ve also had some of the strangest few hours starting last evening. During my usual routine with the IZH 61, I was ridiculously accurate with pellets flying through the same hole. I wasn’t doing anything different, but I couldn’t miss and this went on through the whole course of 60 shots. If single shots can be outliers, is it possible that this can be true of whole shooting sessions that are determined by the laws of statistics at some deep level? Or could shooting be like the Japanese game of Go which is a type of chess? They say that it is common for even serious people to give up after a few years, but ironically they are learning at some deep level and quit right on the verge of a breakthrough. This is typical of the learning process in certain types of mathematics. Maybe I have reached some higher level. It wasn’t like the Jaws of the Subconscious surfacing unpredictably. This was more like a scene in the recent Godzilla movie where Godzilla swims across the Pacific Ocean next to an aircraft carrier.

    Afterwards, I threw a knife at my indoor throwing range and got it to stick! Apparently, I had been one step too short for the rotation of the blade in flight. This morning I tried again, and it stuck both times! I don’t get it, but I’ll be sure to tell if I maintain perfection.


  9. Matt61,

    The breadth of things you have done,.. and tried to achieve perfection in,.. is amazing.

    It has been awhile since you have mentioned the “Jaws of the Subconscious”. I was beginning to wonder if something had replaced it. Between your 60 shot run and your knife throwing,… it sounds as you are on the verge of “something”.

    Best of luck on moving in a forward path with all of your various pursuits,….. Chris

  10. Pelletgage update, (brief version)

    It worked great!!! 100 pellets sorted. 33.95’s with what is supposed to be 6.35mm heads.

    That was not the surprise,….. the surprise came at the “weigh in”. I will not bore you with the numbers,… but I had a spread of 33.4~34.9 grains. 33.7, 33.8, 33.9 and 34.0 came in at 6, 11, 11, 6. The rest fell (both) ways hitting at least a few on (every) step.

    I now how have to ponder the testing parameters. Chris

      • GF1,

        Hey stranger!!!!! I would not say that. I would not say that at all. The fliers bug me. Especially when I “know” that each shot was the same. That is what I am trying to get to the bottom of.

        Hopefully,… something,… will show something. The weight spread was a surprise. We shall see.

        • Chris U
          What’s up. Yep things settling in a little better finally on my end.

          And did I hear you just say that those flyers (bug) you. If that ain’t getting bit by the accuracy bug I don’t know what is. 😉

          But all in all the sorting should help. Now you can at least find out if you got a looser or tighter barrel. I should get one of the pellet gauges to use for my .25 caliber Mrod too. Since I do shoot the longer distances with it. I wonder what my barrel is. I’m thinking my barrel is on the tighter side. That would be better than loose I believe. Well to a extent. Too tight would probably not be good either. But I think with a tighter barrel more head sizes would work than a loose barrel. Maybe that’s what makes some air guns more picky than others with pellet choices. So yep I do think I will get a pellet gauge for the purpose of finding out what size my barrel is.

          And also my Steel Storm will be here anytime. Says it’s on the truck for delivery today. Interested in seeing how it performs on that tethered HPA bottle and adapter I ordered too. The bottle is filled to 3000 psi with HPA from my Shoebox compressor and the bottle has a regulator on it to reduce the pressure going to the gun down to 1200 psi. So I should get a lot of shots per fill shooting from a full fill of 3000psi down to 1200psi. Plus no slowing down when rapid firing or doing rapid full auto bursts. So it should be a pretty fun gun.

          And I noticed that Pyramyd AIR had one of the refurbished Drodz Blackbirds in stock. Those guns can be modified into insane fps and and rounds per minute. They are kind of hard guns to find. I almost bought one in the past when they sold them all the time. If I had the extra cash right now I would get this one.

          Well I just searched it so I could post the link. Can’t find it. So I guess someone grabbed it already. Maybe if a reader bought it they’ll give a update on it.

            • Chris U
              I can just get out my mic or caliper’s and get some different head size pellets and see what they feel like when I load them. Then see which ones shoot more accurately. Just like the pellet gauge.

              What I see about the pellet gauge it will probably be faster than a. Caliper or mic. But one thing to keep in mind when your doing your head sorting is out of round heads. The pellet gauge can’t check that. You have to measure around the head to find that.

              And a out of round head that’s bad enough will throw a flyer. In a sense that’s like having a off center crown on the muzzle of your barrel. So when you get your head sizes sorted you may want to get out the calipers and measure around the head of each pellet. Throw your out of round pellets in a different pile. Then try them after you shoot your pellets that have true heads on them.

              And just got the Steel Storm and getting ready to put it together.

  11. The Setra’s were one of the few European multi pumps, made in Spain from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s, they did look remarkably like Benjamin’s, though I believe were functionally a bit different, they used a lot of phosphor bronze in construction and were a good quality rifle.
    Crosman and Daisy sold in Europe in the same period, though a Crosman 760 would be much the same price as a BSA Meteor but Benjamin’s were almost unseen so, frankly, not many people would have picked up on the similarities.
    They made 12ft/lb on 5 pumps and were fairly expensive, they didn’t make great inroads into the UK market as we don’t share the US tolerance for clacking furiously on a forestock to get a shot.

  12. The Setra’s were one of the few European multi pumps, made in Spain from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s, they did look remarkably like Benjamin’s, though I believe were functionally a bit different, they used a lot of phosphor bronze in construction and were a good quality rifle.
    Crosman and Daisy sold in Europe in the same period, though a Crosman 760 would be much the same price as a BSA Meteor but Benjamin’s and Sheridans were almost unseen so, frankly, not many people would have picked up on the similarities.
    They made 12ft/lb on 5 pumps and were fairly expensive, they didn’t make great inroads into the UK market as we don’t share the US tolerance for clacking furiously on a forestock to get a shot.

    • The C02 rifle never got here at all, apparently Setra made 9000 rifles, so not a huge concern, but not tiny either, a real shame you never got a grip on it, it would have been really intriguing

  13. That rockin’ rat target is cool.

    I suppose if you miss the kill zone and hit the rat body the target will rock. If you hit the kill zone the rat shouldn’t move but the kill zone target should drop. Very cool. But I wonder if the rat will maybe change distance from being hit. Probably not with a under 20 fpe gun. But maybe. Don’t look like there is a way to anchor it other than passing something through the two holes on the black plate on the bottom and into the ground.

    And thats pretty cool also that the arrows took out the cinder block. Making pretty good fpe for it to do that I suppose.

  14. B.B. Pelletier – It was great to meet you again and talk about air guns and scopes. It was especially nice when you showed me the new scopes and shared some of the development history on a few models.
    Also, thank you for posting the picture of me above, shooting my FX Royale on the first day of competition and noting that is how you would like to compete in the future.


  15. B.B.

    I am happy for you, that you made the trip, gathered some lasting memories and returned home safely. I expect the cats were happy to see you.
    I participated in a small field target competition last Saturday. I enjoyed being part of the group. I do need to work on varying distances. It was obvious that I shoot primarily from one small range of distance. My greatest disappointment was failing to hit the tin pale. I wasn’t alone in this, but I am not comparing with anyone or anything except my own expectations.

    Two fellows put all three pellets through the pale on the first round. They were both shooting .177. One was a Gamo break barrel and the other a PCP. I was shooting my trusty .22 Titan (please don’t laugh to loudly).

    I know the Titan is shooting 14.3 gr. Benjamin hollow points at 700 fps at the muzzle.
    Okay, I was shooting freestyle standing up and they were sitting and using a bi-pod. Even so, I believe my shots never reached the distance, not because they could not but because I didn’t use the correct holdover. I am considering where I may be able to test this. Safety is the primary issue.

    I stumbled on to this site earlier today. The only real advertisement I see is for Airgun Hobbyist. The site, however, is dedicated to airgun collectors. You probably know Trevor Adams. This site is supplemental to many of the articles and blogs you have written over the years. Lots of pictures and numerous airguns I have never heard of.


    Thank you, B.B. I don’t have a lot to say these days but I do enjoy the education I get from you and all of the commenters.


  16. Update on the Steel Storm on the 1200psi regulated HPA tethered bottle.

    First off shot count is crazy. Got easy 800 shots out of a fill. What surprised me is the gun kept shooting under 1200psi. It shot all the way down to 800psi with out the gun going full auto like co2 does when it gets low. I guess cause the bottle is regulated it means it won’t allow over 1200 psi to go into the gun. But the gun will keep going under the 1200psi and the bottle will keep supplying till the gun won’t shoot or if that full auto happens from low pressure.

    Definitely shredded a couple feral cans in no time. And pretty accurate out to around 20 yards in single shot mode. Feral cans are no problem at that distance. Full auto bursts mode makes it hard to control the gun though at that distance but still hit the cans. Oh and the bottle fits in my pocket on my jeans diameter wise. But about a third of the bottle is exsposed out of the pocket. So it’s easy to carry the bottle if your outside. The only downside I see about it is I’m going to have to stock up on a lot of bb’s. But I can deal with that with the fun factor involved with the gun. Fun stuff. And forgot was shooting at the cans in a open dirt spot in the yard. The dirt is very dry and dusty. Cool as can be just to shoot at the dirt in full auto bursts and watch the bb hits and the dust fly. Im luv it so far.

    But here’s what I got if anyone is interested in trying it out. I imagine the bottle and adapter and hose with the Foster male fitting could be rigged up on other co2 guns if you take some time to figure out connections. But here’s the links.



    • Just saw this. Click on the 2nd link for the bulk fill adapter. Then click on the spot under the picture were it says customer images.

      Looks like someone set up a bulk fill on the Winchester M14. It looks like it might be a bulk fill co2 bottle. But I bet the regulated Air Venturi HPA bottle would work the same as what I did with the Steel Storm.

      • GF1

        I just received the Air Venturi HPA bottle set up for my Sig Sauer MCX carbine, It extends the stock length about 3″ with the supplied stock end cap. A bit awkward with the angle of stock cap reversed from the Sigs, sits high on the shoulder. Upside down, it just slid off. Needs to be vertical at least. I can see a mod happening here.
        Anyway, I had no idea this ‘ HPA ‘ bottle could be used with a ‘ CO2 ‘ bottle adapter. I have both the Winchester M14 and Steal Storm and it may even be workable with the Winchester MP4 ? Will be on order ASAP !
        Now I need to explore Airsoft uses.
        Bob M

        • Bob
          We was posting at the same time. Check out what I just said to Siraniko below.

          But yep I know I could convert certain co2 guns that use the 12 gram cartridge’s to this setup. Pretty cool.

        • Follow – up
          The Air Venturi HPA bottle actually fits in an empty spot in the Sig Sauer box foam like it was made for it. Could this be part of the Sig MCX PCP set up ? or at least a re-think of a PCP at a lower FPS ?
          Bob M

          • Bob
            I seen the HPA bottles in the new products section a little while back. I saw the one for the mcx that comes with the shoulder stock and then the one that comes without out it. So that’s how I got the idea to use it with the Steel Storm bulk fill adapter.

            I have converted several co2 guns to HPA in one form or another. They have all worked very well with a 1200psi and down fill of HPA. So had a very good feeling this was going to work nice on the Storm.

            And yep it’s a nice little package. Don’t even know I got the bottle in my pocket or its teherd. I doesn’t affect my shooting at all.

            Oh and I had a Steel Storm probably 6 or so years ago. I ran it on the 12 gram co2 cartridge’s. And from what I’m seeing right now with this one on HPA the gun shoots with more authority. Haven’t chronyed it and probably won’t. But this one on HPA shoots hard and it seem to shoot faster rounds per minute and at a higher velocity. That 30 round magazine of bb’s is gone in a blink of a eye in the 6 round burst mode. And it no kind of way slows down in rounds per minute or velocity if you just keep shooting the bursts as fast as you can. I think you will be impressed in how much it changes the gun. I’m happy with mine.

            And I think I will buy one of the $19 adapters that I provided the link for below and try it on my M22 and Python. If it all works out I might buy more and convert my other co2 guns over to HPA. Then it will be just plug and play with my regulated bottle and teherd bottle adapter.

            Glad they came out with all of it that’s for sure.

            • GF1
              I remember reading about someone adding a fitting to an 88gr. CO2 bottle and converting it to HPA, a little risky for serious pressure, but this bottle opens a whole new world of HPA options. Imagine a universal adapter being made for most CO2 guns to theater this bottle. The word ‘fun’ will need to be in capital letters !

              • Bob
                That was me. Not bragging but been a machinist for over 30 years and I have built and made many things over the years. As it goes a person better know what their doing and know what’s involved before they start digging into something. But yep done it on a 88 gram cartridge that attached to the 1077 adapter. Still doing fine and no leaks either. I filled it to 1200 psi and shot down to 800 psi no problem.

                A universal adapter would be the ticket. A little thought involved but bet they could come up with something.

                And incase anyone is interested. I just tryed the H&N Smart Shot copper coated lead bb’s in the Storm. It shot great. Matter of fact I tryed them at my steel spinners at 15 yards and it has enough energy to flatten the lead bb half way. So it’s making pretty good power. Would be on the expensive side to shoot them verses steel bb’s though. But at least wanted to try them to see how they did.

                • GF1
                  I should have known it was you. You said you took it to 1200psi, a fair pressure and who knows what would happen to a CO2 gun hit with 3,000psi.
                  Would you trust that fitting to 3,000psi ? Welded on perhaps, but the thread engagement seems like it would be a little short on contact area. There are no 3,000psi aircraft systems, hydraulic or pneumatic, that have 2 or 3 thread engagements. 3,000 psi is what I was calling serious pressure and to be safe it would need to be tested to what? 4,000 or 5,000 psi or more ?
                  Point I wanted to make is this Air Venturi bottle was designed for 3,000 psi … and safe at that pressure ! Opening up lots of HPA options.
                  A pin hole leak at that pressure could inflate your body or cut off a finger.
                  I agree your 88 gr bottle is probably safe at that pressure but the bottle itself may not handle 3,000 psi…. hence the term risky.

                  • Bob
                    Yep we make fittings and assemble and test high pressure air and hydraulic products at work. Definitely 3000 psi is dangerous stuff if it lets go. Heck a 150 psi fitting letting go ain’t no joke.

                    And how did you come up with 2 or 3 threads of engagement. That doesn’t sound right from the things I have worked on.

                    Anyway as I said. It’s always best to have a understanding of something before you decide to work on it. Seen some crazy stuff happen when they tested at work in a controlled condition.

                    And how do we know that the HPA Air Venturi bottle could fail. Anything is possible is the way I look at it.

                    • GF1
                      To be honest I made an assumption, I can’t imagine the 88gr Co2 bottle is thick enough to have more than 2 or 3 threads holding a fitting in a hole drilled in it. Or did you drill into the bottle neck?
                      I thought you drilled into the curved bottom and screwed in a fitting.
                      Basically I had doubts the bottle assembly, if it was that way, could hold 3,000 psi safely without more threads engaged to secure a fitting. Also keeping in mind the bottle itself was not made to hold 3,000 psi and this new Air Venturi was a perfect alternative and made to handle that pressure.

                  • Bob
                    I drilled and tapped the round bottom. The cartridge I used was over a 1/4″ thick. Used a foster fitting with a pipe thread. Used all the threads on the fitting when I screwed it into the bottom of the cartridge. The last one full turn I made tightening was pretty hard to complete that turn. So pretty snug fit.

                    And you know there would be no need to fill that cartridge to 3000 psi. I’m pretty sure the valve in the gun would lock. They design the co2 valves in guns to operate up to the 1200 psi.

                    That’s why I only filled it to 1200 psi. Now with this Air Venturi HPA tank were talking about it is designed to be filled to 3000 psi as you mentioned. But the exciting thing about it is the regulated 1200 psi that the gun receives.

                    That brings up this. Even those little bulk fill co2 bottles that are available would not be a good idea to fill to 3000 psi if someone was to hook up a fitting or adapter to fill it with HPA.

                    So yes this higher fill pressure reguated Air Venturi bottle is the ideal bottle to convert a co2 gun to a tethered lower pressure HPA pcp gun.

                    • GF1
                      Wow, had no idea the 88gr Co2 bottle was that thick at the base and that the fitting was so small. Just looked at the bottle closely, Sorry I underestimated your talent. I have opened 12 gr CO2 cartridges for various reasons and they were fairly thin walled. New to the bigger bottles.

                      Off to the Vintage Car Races at North Island Naval Air Station tomorrow, An all day event.
                      Bob M

              • Bob
                Have fun at the races. I sure miss my old muscle cars and the dragstrip. Time and money not on my side right now. But got it in my mind to get another one at some point in time.

                Again have fun. Let me know how it goes at the event on the current days blog if you will.

                • GF1
                  The actual racing part of the Fleet Week Coronado Speed Festival was great as usual with all the various classes racing but the two day event itself has diminished over the years. Many of the side events, vendors and car club appearances were gone. No sky divers, hover craft or drifters and the Edelbrock, Johnsonville, big food and performance vendors were gone. Some may have happened on the final day but they were not on the schedule
                  Hard times and other events may have affected it, like power boat races and concerts. San Diego is a real action city.

                  One ‘T’ bucket owner said the local Coronado police were harassing the custom car drivers that were coming to participate and they eventually said screw you, we’re out of here for good …
                  So much for American freedoms here.
                  Bob M

    • Gunfun1,

      Once the pressure drops off the regulator the gas should still flow albeit at a lower pressure. I think the the full auto burst happens at a very low pressure since 800 psi is still within the normal operating pressure for CO2.

      That M14 looks fun too!


      • Siraniko
        Check this out. This is the adapter that comes as part of the bulk fill for the Steel Storm. It can be bought separately. It basically screws in where a 12 gram co2 cartridge goes. So with a little thought it could be screwed into certain co2 guns in place of the 12 gram co2 cartridge.

        I believe I could get it to work on my Daisy 74, M22 and Python. It looks like the screw could be removed that is used to push on the 12 gram cartridge that peirce’s the cartridge. One thing I see that will need done is the part of the adapter that would fit through the the threaded hole would need to be put on a lathe and turned down to a smaller diameter so it could slip through the hole. So if you had the other part that screws on a HPA or bulk fill bottle and the bottle is regulated to 1200 psi you could just by this.


        So if you already have a way to fill a pcp you could convert different co2 guns that use 12 gram cartridge’s to bulk fill tethered HPA. Just like what I did to the Steel Storm.

        • GF1
          Just noticed, the Air Venturi HPA bottle stock replacement set for the Sig MCX,
          ( Adapter, Bottle, & Butt plate ), looks like a shoe in for an EBOS and the bottle tilting down installation with this gun should make the butt plate angle more comfortable.

          • Bob
            Nice. Maybe these bottles will become more popular than they expected.

            And forgot to mention. I got mine yesterday and filled it to 3000psi before I put it up yesterday. I turned off the knob on the adapter so it would not be pressurized to the gun. Getting ready to shoot it right now and the bottle is still dead on 3000psi. So no leak down overnight. Which is what I expected anyway. But glad of that. Hate when I get a leaker. So another good thing about the bottle.

        • Gunfun1,

          That is a nice setup. Unfortunately 12 gram CO2 powered airguns are not that popular around here. Most CO2 is still dispensed using bulk fill 10 oz. tanks.

          Having discovered the joys of a springer I am seriously thinking of abandoning the CO2 altogether and consolidating on PCP and Spring piston powerplants.


          • Siraniko
            You know I was thinking about the bulk fill co2 guns.

            I was thinking if they had a foster female fitting on the front of the air tube a person could hook the tethered hose up to the gun. Then use the 1200 psi regulated HPA bottle attached to the bulk fill adapter. Even though the bottle had 3000 psi of HPA in it the guns air resivoir tube would only get fed with 1200 psi and lower as the gun shot. You could probably hook up to this gun and make it a HPA gun.

              • Gunfun1,

                Yes indeed they could. Some have been experimenting with replacing the bulk fill female CO2 port with screw in Male Foster fitting. I may just look into that.

                Thanks for the ideas Gunfun1!


                • Siraniko
                  I had one of those Flying Dragon $100 pcp conversion rifles. That’s what they did. They threaded a male foster fitting in it to fill the gun. Could of very easily connected the hose and 1200 psi regulated bottle to that gun to have a tethered HPA supply.

                  I believe if I start looking through the Pyramyd AIR website I could find more guns that could be candidates for this HPA conversion. I don’t think they realize how big a deal that new regulated HPA bottle is. Again I will say I’m happy it’s available.

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