Hatsan Gladius .177 long: Part 6

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Hatsan Gladius
Hatsan Gladius Long.

This report covers:

  • Big lesson!
  • Rings report
  • The test
  • Scope report
  • JSB Exact RS
  • Air Arms Falcon
  • H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads
  • H&N Field Target Trophy pellets with 4.50mm heads
  • Summary

Today is the final report on the Hatsan Gladius long air rifle. It is also an interim report on the UTG G4 8-32X56mm scope with that special illuminated half-mil dot reticle. And, by extension, I will be reporting on the new UTG POI rings, though it is difficult to make much of a report on rings. If they do their job they should be almost unnoticeable.

Big lesson!

There are three fundamental truths about airguns that I try to stress whenever possible. First — that a better trigger does not affect accuracy. Second — that a tuneup does not affect accuracy. And the third one is seen today — namely that a more powerful scope does not affect accuracy. We shall see.

Rings report

It was back to the 50-yard range for the Gladius. I knew that H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads were the best pellets tested so far, so today I threw in some new pellets — just to see if I could find something even better. When I mounted the new scope last week I got the rifle sighted-in at 25 yards, but I didn’t shoot any groups at that distance. All my time was taken up evaluating the new UTG POI rings, which performed as advertised. In fact, let’s address them right now.

I have just one thing to add to what I have already said about these rings. Because they are held to such tight tolerances, they are not the rings to use when you want to shim! If your rifle has a droop problem, find another way to solve it besides shims if you are using these rings. These rings fit the scope tube so snug that shims would just defeat all that the rings provide. The entire base to which the rings attach needs to slope downwards, rather than doing anything odd like shimming one of these rings. They are so tight that they could easily bend the scope tube if they are not installed correctly.

The test

I shot from a bench at a target 50 yards away. The rifle’s power was set to 4, which you can look up in Part 2, if you are curious. That is a relatively high setting. The range is 1-6.

Scope report

I arrived at the range a full hour before sunrise, so the stars were out when I set up. By the time everything was ready to go there were still 30 minutes before sunrise. This is where that illuminated dot reticle comes in so very handy. I discovered that while it is barely visible in daylight, at night that dot is quite bright. I used the buttons to select an intensity of the green dot (the most visible to my eye) three steps down from the brightest. At that setting, the dot didn’t cover much of the bullseye — perhaps 1/8-inch at 50 yards.

This feature allowed me to start shooting 30 minutes before sunrise. Any illuminated scope will give you a head start on the day, but this tiny dot is probably the best one to get started the earliest. So in my estimation, that dot works as advertised.

JSB Exact RS

For some reason I didn’t start the test with the proven pellet. I knew the rifle was sighted-in for 25 yards, so I started the test with JSB Exact RS pellets. The first pellet landed very low on the target and somewhat to the left. I corrected with the elevation and windage knobs and fired shots number two and three. They didn’t move as much as anticipated so I cranked in a lot of up and right. Shot number 4 hit just outside the bullseye at 3:30, which I figured was good enough. So I left that adjustment where it was and fired 9 more rounds.

The other 9 shots went even higher on target, giving me a 10-shot group that measured 2.376-inches between centers, with 9 of the shots shots measuring 1.548-inches. If the 9 shots had been tighter I would gave tried a second group, but the RS doesn’t look like the right pellet for the Gladius.

Hatsan Gladius RS group
JSB Exact RS pellets grouped 10 in 2.376-inches and 9 in 1.548-inches at 50 yards. This is not the pellet for the Gladius.

Air Arms Falcon

Next I tried the Air Arms Falcon pellet with the 4.52mm head. Although these are light for the powerful Gladius, they sometimes do surprise me. That was one of those times. Ten Falcons landed in 1.243-inches at 50 yards. This was so impressive that I tried a second group.

Hatsan Gladius Falcon group 1
Falcon pellets did well, at 50 yards. Ten in 1.243-inches. Looks like 8, doesn’t it?

The second group of Falcons measured 1.615-inches between centers, with 9 of them measuring 1.213-inches. They are very good in this rifle.

Hatsan Gladius Falcon group 2
The second group of Falcons measures 1.615-inches, with 9 in 1.213-inches.

H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads

The H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads were the best pellet to this point in my testing. The best 10-shot group at 50 yards I got in Part 4 was 1.148-inches across. On this day 10 of the same pellets went into 0.981-inches. That’s better, but still in line with what I got in the last test when the UTG 10-50 sniper scope was installed. It iwas the single best group of the test.

Hatsan Gladius Baracuda group
Ten Baracuda Match went into 0.981-inches at 50 yards.

So, the Baracuda Match with the 4.50mm heads are still the best pellets, but the Falcons look like they would be worth further exploration, if I owned this rifle.

H&N Field Target Trophy pellets with 4.50mm heads

Everyone keeps telling me that H&N Field Target Trophy pellets are good, though they have never shot well for me. I thought I would give them a chance in the Gladius. These are the ones with 4.50mm heads. Ten of them made a 2.503-inch group at 50 yards, so they aren’t for this Gladius.

Hatsan Gladius FTT group
Ten FTT pellets went into 2.503-inches at 50 yards.

Summary

Today’s test revealed how nice the new UTG G4 8-32 power scope is. But even all that additional power didn’t make the Hatsan Gladius any more accurate at 50 yards. I think that is the point to remember.

This is the last time I will test the Gladius. We now have a very good picture of what this PCP rifle is like and what it can do. I will continue to evaluate both the G4 scope and the POI rings on other guns.

51 thoughts on “Hatsan Gladius .177 long: Part 6

  1. BB,

    What a great way to greet the dawn. Lately I have enjoyed greeting the dawn on my Harley.

    This particular rig is way too big to suit me, but I could see where this could be great in a larger caliber for a bench rest shooter or prairie dogs. If those groups could be tightened up a bit it might even work good for field target.


  2. B.B.,

    Nice shooting. Low light is tuff, or can be. Light at target figures in more than anything. I discovered that the other day when I played with my 4-16 x 56 UTG set at 16 magnification. Useless on a target at 70 yards in the woods. Very do-able on a 30 yard target in the yard. It was not the magnification, rather the light at the target.

    And yes, lighted reticles are great. I think if anyone was to ever use one, they would not go back to non-lighted. I am not sure of that single dot though. A full mil dot reticle with 1/2 dot hash lines is indispensable for hold overs at various distances.

    I like that you call out sub-groups (8/10, 9/10). I have been studying sub-groups myself quite a bit here as of late. The last group almost has 2 sub-groups with a single flier thrown in. The 3rd from last could almost be said to have 1 to 4 fliers, depending how you want to break it down. That is the kind of group that drives me nuts. Why did 5 of 9 group so tight. And why the 10th. Still, 1.213″ at 50 yards is nothing to sneeze at.

    At any rate, nice report and always the treat when you do a 50 yard test. Thanks.

    Chris


    • Chris,

      My target range is half in the woods as well but there is an area where the trees are not as thick and I get a well lit area in the 35-50 yard zone where the pellets show up well against the dark log back-stop.

      Most of the time I see the pellets arc smoothly to the target but there are occasional ones that “barrel-roll” on their way down range and show up as a “flier” on paper.

      I think (hope) that weight and size sorting then rolling might identify the aerobatic non-conformists. Another winter project 🙂 Wish I had one of those high-speed video cameras.

      Hank


      • Hank,

        My woods “lights up” at times as well. My usual set up is six, 3″ bulls with 1″ bulls inside of each one. Homemade, done with a wide marker. At times, with the naked eye, I can not even see the 3″ bulls. That is even with white paper. My distant vision is very good, even without glasses.

        As for the sorting,….. yea,…. the elimination of fliers is the goal. It is all steadily progressing to the better,… just not what/as fast as I had hoped. Today will be (new) test. Head sorted, weigh sorted and out of round sorted, done in that order.

        The JSB 33.95’s really have quite the weight spread. As low as 33.4 and all the way up 35.5. Most stop at 34.5, but after sorting 200+ pellets, I have at least 20 that went over 34.5. I do not know,…. maybe that type of extreme weight spread is more common with heavier pellets?

        While most people give head size the #1 priority, sending 2 pellets downrange with a 2.0 grain weight spread might,.. “just might”,.. cause a flier.

        Chris


        • Chris,

          I am thinking that a weight variation will affect velocity/trajectory and cause pellets to hit lower/higher on the target but I don’t think it will cause the flyers in the 7-11 and 1-5 o’clock areas unless barrel harmonics come into play.

          If you check your pellet weight spread as a percentage of the pellet weight and compare it to other weight/caliber pellets I would guess that it would be pretty close across the board and that there was a slight linear increase as you go heavier.

          Have fun testing (envious that I don’t have time right now) 🙂

          Hank


          • Hank,

            Good point on weight = vertical stringing (not a 3 or 9 O’clock flier). I have enough now that I could easily do every .2 grains over about 10 shots. That would answer that question. I should get to that this week.

            On the above, the pellets that I will shoot today have all had (all 3) test done to them,… head, weight and round. I will do 8 random, then 2 eight groups of the “Tri”-sorted.

            Bi, Tri, Quad?,….. man,…. this pellet sorting stuff can get out of hand,.. real quick! 🙁

            Chris


            • Chris,

              Yeah, sorting can get out of hand real quick. My wife laughs when she sees me playing what she calls “she loves me, she loves me not” with the pellets. 🙂

              I usually I only sort for “special purposes” like sighting in; and determining a rifles’ pellet preference/accuracy potential where I want to minimize the variables. I sort all the pellets I hunt with.

              I also like to sort a sample (30 pellets) from each batch/brand of pellets to get an idea how consistent they are. I have had surprises – some good and some bad!

              I have setup a couple of things to make sorting faster and easier – I modified a pair of fine tweezers so that they fit around and grip the waist of the pellet and made a raised “stage” that fits on my scale.

              Hank


              • Hank,

                Sounds familiar. My tweezers are about 4 3/4″ long, curved tip, needle point ends and (open when you squeeze them). Let go and you can hold something all day long. The “jaws” cross each other. Silicone grips too. Picked them up at a bigger craft store, something like the Wife may visit,…. 5$.

                Good deal on your sorting. “She love’s me,….. she love’s me not”,…… LOVE IT! “Hat’s off” to the Wife there on coming up with that one! 🙂

                Chris




            • GF1,

              That would indicate an “opening,..spiraling” effect as the pellet is heading down range.

              Read my reply to Vana2 and Matt61 below,…… I am ready,… almost,… to give up.


              • Chris U
                Not really a spiraling effect.

                The trajectory will let’s say for example will raise and go more left with a lighter or faster pellet.

                Just the opposite with a heavy or slower pellet. Or I shouldn’t say opposite. Let me say it won’t go as far left or as high when the pellet impacts CV with the heavier or slower pellet.

                Take you a target out at say 15, 30 and 45 yards. Aim at one dot on the center of each paper. Of course you will notice to need hold over or under at each distance but also your point of impact will slightly move left or right at the different distances.

                I shoot 5 shot groups when I do this. And if you had a multi-pump air gun you will see the up down impact of course at different distances. But also you will see the slight left right shift added into the hits on the paper.

                You could try it with your Tx or LGU with heavy pellets and light pellets. I think you will find that after you shoot at the paper you will see the difference between the heavy and light pellets and how the impact will shift in multiple directions from your aim point. And to make it simple just use one paper with one dot in the middle out at 30 yards. You will see the impact change from heavy to light pellets.


              • I think barrel harmonics may play a major factor left/right dispersion.

                I bought a CMP refurb daisy 853 which comes with an 11.5 oz muzzle weight. I’ve been trying to see how close I can get daisy flatheads ($3 per 500) to the performance of meisterkugeln by moving the position of the weight in and out on the barrel. (it’s secured by 2 set screws)

                here’s what I’ve seen so far.

                1. moving that heavy weight along the 11 mm barrel makes a lot bigger effect on the vertical point of aim due to barrel droop than I would have guessed.

                2. with some barrel positions the point of aim varies quite substantially from left to right for different pellets. Which I think must be related to the weight differences of the various brands of pellets due to harmonics, because at other barrel positions there is not much left/right differences.

                3. using the smallest sorted daisy pellets gives a substantial reduction in group size from about 1/2 inch to 1/8 inches at 7 yards (at the best weight position), but at different barrel weight positions the pellets seem to repeatably string out the group horizontally, or vertically which makes me think the harmonics are vibrating in different directions at different positions.

                I’m just marking the positions with tape, i would really like a micrometer adjustment like the browning BOSS, although I think I’ve been moving the weight more than that system allows.


    • I know the appeal of sub-groups with my sub-MOA Saiga AK minus a flier or two. But I think they are somewhat at odds with the rationale of the 10 shot group which is supposed to have statistical reliability.

      Matt61


      • Matt61,

        Let’s just say that the “statistical reliability” of 8 shot groups is not any better. Once again, random picked pellets out shot “Tri” sorted groups. I am at a loss to explain. Head hung low,…. tail between the legs.

        I am starting to “feel your pain” of max. effort and varied results. On the cusps of a major break through one day,…… back to “ground zero” the next. 🙁

        Chris


  3. What head size was the Field Target Trophy?

    since marketing doesn’t always match up with reality, I suppose I should be asking what head size H&N claims the tin contains.


  4. BB— Regarding your comment about triggers, I can get good groups from a secure rest with almost any trigger. But when I have to shoot in a match or on a hunt there is a difference between a “good ” and a “poor” trigger. Years ago I had a Winchester 88 in .243. It shot minute of angle (or better) 5 shot groups from a sandbag rest. When I took it hunting (woodchuck), I missed a lot of chuck. I usually took my shots from the sitting position. I had no problem when I used my Winchester 670 (.22-250), my Winchester 70 (.243), or my Savage 110 (.243). These rifles had better triggers. For many years I shot a match grade M1 Garand in matches. I shot good scores with this rifle. Then I replaced the trigger mech. with a national match trigger. My scores improved . —–Ed


    • sounds like you got woodchuck fever lol. I shot in many high power matches with garand and M1A and stock triggers were fine. one match trigger I had on an M1A would fire 2-3 shot full auto burst




    • Mildot52,

      Actually, I disproved the old velocity destroys accuracy belief in an 11-part report in 2011.

      /blog/2011/12/pellet-velocity-versus-accuracy-test-part-11/

      According to Part 2 of this report, the velocity for the Baracuda Match pellet at power setting 4 is 956 f.p.s.

      B.B.


      • OK BB you got tons of experience and a real nice guy. thanks for the info. I had a AT 44 long and when I slowed it down it did better. but I did not try a ll pellets just 4 types


  5. BB,

    I’m not sure I understand your comment, ” A better trigger does not affect accuracy”. I recently shot a RAW field target air rifle with a match-grade trigger and couldn’t miss spinners. You get your ideal sight picture, a tiny touch of the trigger, and the shots away instantly. If a trigger doesn’t make a difference in
    accuracy, then why do all serious competitors have
    match grade triggers.?


    • Brent,

      Competitors have match grade triggers for ergonomics. They feel better, so they make shooting easier. But they don’t affect accuracy. Accuracy is a function of the pellet and barrel, and to a lesser degree, the velocity. Harmonics play a part, but you do your best to dial them out.

      B.B.


      • I, too, was puzzled with the comment about triggers not affecting accuracy. If true, then Anschutz, Savage, and other manufacturers have wasted a lot of money, and that includes me with my $300 trigger job for my CZ 75. Or to quote Benjamin Braddock’s father in the film The Graduate (my favorite film!): “Ben is going to show you what, I think, is a pretty exciting birthday present. Or I’m out $200 bucks. Ya ha ha.”

        Anyway, the point makes sense if triggers are defined in terms of ergonomics while accuracy is defined in terms of the gun mechanics. But that raises the question of what motivates these definitions. Most people think of accuracy in terms of hits on a target by a shooter. You might very well get intriguing data if you put a gun in a vise or embed it in concrete. But the real interest of that data is to illuminate the performance of a shooter, even as an ideal. But if you really can’t translate those exact circumstances to a human shooter, then it seems less relevant to the fundamental issue behind accuracy which is what a human can achieve. Put another way, if accuracy is defined in terms of human performance, and it is not possible, experimentally, to separate an element like the trigger from the final result, then excluding the trigger from the definition of accuracy seems a little arbitrary.

        Alternatively, I could see in an idealized way how a trigger would not matter with perfect technique. The famous shooter David Tubb says that he can adjust to any trigger. I put this in the same category as the claim that caliber doesn’t affect accuracy. It’s possible. But in the real world with imperfect shooters and conditions it inevitably will.

        Matt61


        • best groups I ever shot with 3 different rifle calibers was with the savage heavy barrels in early 90’s when no one was buying them. you needed a come along to spark it off. trigger had to be 8lbs a bunch of my friends bought them and same results. they came out with replacement triggers with a lot lighter pull not one bit of difference in fact I was leery of the rifle going off before I was ready


      • you are right BB you can get used to almost any trigger. reason match rifles have good triggers is when you pay from 2K to 3.5K they have to give you all the goodies and at 10 meter match it would have some value but then how many guys shoot 10 meter match. to me a hair trigger is worse then a 2lb trigger for me. also I thought the standard 2 stage trigger on an M1A was the best trigger I ever used.


        • By trigger, I’m not thinking just of weight but of everything that can go wrong with the trigger: mushy, creepy, gritty, spongy break. Are all these features irrelevant to shooting?

          I agree that the hair trigger has its liabilities. Apparently, one reason that Founding Father Alexander Hamilton lost his duel with Aaron Burr is that his pistol was set to a hair trigger, and he fired his shot inadvertently.

          Matt61


          • Burr should have shot hamiliton a few years earlier. he ushered in a foreign bank. what I am saying is expensive target triggers vastly overrated if you were to buy one to add to a rifle and Tubbs said you can get used to any trigger. maybe 1% of shooting public shoots in 10 meter matches. trigger on my FWB 602 is to light for me but I will not fool with it



  6. BB

    So would it be safe to say match grade triggers and enhancing ergonomics affect the ‘Shooters’ accuracy and not the ‘Rifles’ accuracy. Only thing that can change, or increase, a rifles accuracy with a perfect pellet, aside from harmonics, is a better barrel.
    How about modifications that affect the pellet after it leaves the barrel, compensators, splitters etc. that have now become part of the rifle? or are they just considered modifications that affect the ‘rifles’ performance when fired and not really it’s accuracy.
    Could they sort of correct some deficiency in a barrels accuracy or would it just be considered a harmonics mod to improve it ?

    When I watch real steal shooters on TV and slow play it you can watch the entire rifle shake and distort severely and wonder how he can hit anything but I guess if it’s consistent its POI can be predictable with the same ammo. Could a rifle that distorts that way ever be considered accurate simply because it’s predictable ?

    Bob M



    • Also…
      I guess what I’m asking is can a rifle with bad but predictable and consistent harmonics be accurate, or is something like a short bull barrel that minimizes harmonics the only way to go for improvements in accuracy.
      Surely long range shooters must rely on predictability of a rifle.
      Bob M


    • Bob
      I just got your response from the other days blog on the Pyramyd Air cup Part 2.

      Yep seems like the car events around here ain’t as big as they used to be participant and vendor wise. Not even as many local weekend car cruises as there use to be. And the police are around when the cruises and such happen. They’re not bad in our area. They kind of set back unless someone gets stupid with their car and such. But for the most part I guess I can say they have their eyes closed.

      But the big boys are in town this weekend at the local drag strip. The NHRA nationals at Gateway Motorsports park. I haven’t went for a few years but think I’m going this year. My cousin has a original Mopar 69 D-Dart with a hemi and 4 SPD with 5.13 gears he bought when he was a kid from a service man in the mid 70’s. He’s racing it in the nostalgia class. He hasn’t ran the car in a few years after having some health issues. So it’s going to be cool to see him get it back out and run at a big event at that.

      But thought I would post here instead of going back to the other days blog.


      • GF1
        Just found something interesting …. look up Redline Airstock . They have a stock that sits under a 13 ci HPA bottle and some UK airsoft guys figured out how to modify a command arms stock saddle to fit over the bottle for a cheek rest.
        Now this stock was made for M4 type airsoft rifles and has a built in regulator of some sort. Their HPA requirements are much lower so a CO2 adapter does not come into play but with some ingenuity it may be made to work out some how, food for thought anyway.
        This bottle is moving in big time to replace larger back pack tethered bottles with the airsoft crowd. Their bottles are regulated down below 800 psi. and offers them hundreds of shots.
        Bob M


  7. Michael and Rick, thanks for your interest in the knife-throwing. I know what you mean about enjoying the blade. I feel the same about them as I do about guns. I like the like and feel of them and how they work. I believe that shuriken were the rage during the popularity of ninjas some time ago, but I never got into them. Partly, they are difficult to throw, but I also have my doubts about the legitimacy of ninja techniques that are advertised. Some people who call themselves ninjas are highly skilled, but that is not the same thing as the original lineage. Since they were highly secret organizations, they took a particular interest in limiting information about themselves, so we’ll never know. Some say that the last real ninja was a man in the early 20th century who had the ability to dislocate 40 joints in his body so that he could be compressed into the volume of a milk crate. I guess that would be useful to a ninja although it’s nothing I’d want to imitate. I actually find that large, heavy knives are more satisfying to throw. In part, I think the weight makes it easier to stick them. But I’ve made zero progress on the tomahawk throwing.

    Rick, are you shooting crossbows in your basement?! That is much more power in a confined space than my B30. What are you shooting into? The problem with archery indoors is that you have to stop the arrow in a short space but you can’t use a hard surface that will break the arrow. A princess from Constantinople during the Crusades wrote with amazement about the crossbows used by the Western Europeans: “The barbarians have an engine so powerful that it can shoot right through a wall!” I’ve been wondering if I could make a target with my unused duct seal. If it can stop pellets, it should be able to stop arrows and maybe it can decelerate them without breakage.

    Matt61


  8. Well, here’s the thing with H&N FTT, I use them almost exclusively with my Weihrauch springers, are they the most accurate pellets at 40m…..NO!
    However, at my hunting ranges….up to 30m they group at half inch and…here’s the rub, produce more than 20% more energy than a similarly weighted JSB design.
    With their shorter tail and somewhat dumpier, more traditional waisting, they compromise long range drag stability for a better coefficient and better retained energy.
    This is a subtlety often disregarded when choosing a pellet, especially for hunting, superficiality, for the obvious ethical reasons, you feel you want the most accurate shot you can get, but….if you are realistic, and can admit to yourself that the odds on you hunting from a rested bench at 50 yards are slim and you are far more likely to be standing halfway in a bush, free hand in a rainy wind, then, you will also realise that 25 to 30 yards is far more realistic.
    And this allows you to look at pellets that can group accurately at these shorter ranges, yet with other properties, and better energy retention is one of them




      • I wish I could take credit for it, but I have shot a few Chrony’s at distance in my time, no, it’s from a friend of mines charts at my club, he doubted H&N’s published figures, but found them to be, if anything, conservative.
        Its not the best pellet at distance, though by no means terrible, but its a surprisingly hard hitter at the shorter ranges, H&N’s hollow point is terribly unstable over 25 yards, but as a barn ratter out to 20 yards its my first choice, hell of a thwack….which is the point I’m making.
        If I was doing the local HFT in the spring class though…..I would be grabbing a tin of JSB Exact in the exact same rifle
        The fact is, these H&N’s have been going since the mid 70s, when open sights and short ranges were the airgun huntings realm



          • Somewhere in the early eighties pellets started getting longer tails, more like Badminton shuttlecocks, I can’t help correlating these highly stable designs with the rolling out of optics and more consistent materials in airgun manufacture….
            Prior to this, pellets, at least in the UK were very soft, almost equally waisted pellets, and though totally inadequate now, they were totally fine for open sighted hunting of rats, squirrels, rabbits etc at the 15 to 20 yards that the equipment was capable of, 12fpe wasn’t a legal limit in the UK in those days, it was more of a mechanical one


        • That’s why my multi-pump gun is a nice pesting gun.

          I know the amount of pumps I need for different distances and never have to use hold over on under. I put the reticle center right on the target. Closer shots need less pumps and less energy. So as my target gets farther away I need more pumps to make the pellet get there on target. Plus the retained energy is there because of the more velocity or pumps needed to make it there. Works out real nice.


          • Useful, but not quite the point GF, I’d be more inclined to use every inch of the energy at any range, but instead of using a hard, penetrative CP on close range pests I’d use a soft hollow point or even a 22 wadcutter, impart the energy rather than reduce it


            • Dom
              I know what you mean and I do tend to use wadcutters at about 30 yards and in for pesting. That works real nice with the pumping method I just mentioned. The hollow points are basically no different than a round nose pellet with air gun velocities. If you want to put a thump’n on something the wadcutters are the way to go if you stay in their effective accuracy range.

              What’s nice about the pumping method I mentioned is the right amount of energy is made at different distances. It will allow for that knock down type of hit. And gives a more equal retained energy over multiple distances. You can’t do that with a springer.


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