The Stiga Zenit – an EM-GE Zenit clone: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Today’s report is Part 1 of a guest blog from reader Paul. He’s going to tell us about his Stiga Zenit — an airgun that many will not have heard of, including me.

If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • What is it?
  • Sights
  • Trigger
  • Too perfect a copy
  • Editor’s note

Over to you, Paul

Zenit right side
The Stiga Zenit is a close copy of the pre-WWII EM-GE Zenit pistol from Germany.

For some reason I have a soft spot for offbeat airguns, and the Stiga Zenit is a good example. The Swedish-made Stiga Zenit is a nearly identical copy of the original, EM-GE Zenit from Germany. The EM-GE pistol was made from 1936 until 1939 or 1940, its production being ended by the start of World War II. Stiga’s version had a much longer run, from 1949 until 1969. Milbro also made their copy of the Zenit, called the Diana Mark IV, and the Milbro G4 and G4S (smoothbore), from 1950 to 1977. Fortunately Chambers of England still sells a number of parts that work in all Zenit variants. The original EM GE Zenit is not terribly common in the USA, but one or two come up for sale on the usual auction sites each year. The Stiga copy is rarer, still.

Zenit factory stamp
The Stiga name and place of manufacture are stamped on the cocking lever.

Zenit barrel marking
The Stiga Zenit was made in .177 / 4.5mm caliber only.

Larry Hannusch wrote an in-depth article on collecting the Zenit in Tom Gaylord’s Airgun Revue Number 2. It is a good read if you are interested in this air pistol.

What is it?

The Zenit is a spring piston airgun with an overlever cocking arrangement similar to a Beeman P1 or a Cometa Indian. Unlike those pistols, the compression chamber on the Zenit is directly behind the barrel, not beneath it. The piston uses a conventional leather seal that must be periodically oiled. All Zenits are .177 caliber, although Larry’s article mentions the existence of at least one 5mm (.20 caliber) example.

The Zenit is a medium-sized air pistol, about the same size as a Crosman 150. It is 11 inches long, weighs 28 ounces, and is made entirely of steel and wood, with a nice, solid feel. The grip angle is perfect for offhand work and the pistol balances nicely. The five-inch barrel is rifled with ten shallow grooves and is all steel, whereas the original EM-GE Zenit had a brass-lined bore.

According to the Blue Book of Airguns, Stiga made three versions of the Zenit. The first model used a one-piece wood stock, like my pistol. The second version substituted brown plastic grips; the final Zenits had blue-gray plastic grips, a heavily-reinforced cocking lever and a modified rear sight. The Blue Book describes the first Stiga Zenit as being a smoothbore but mine is definitely rifled.

Zenit left side
The left side of the wood stock has a mild thumb rest and the Stiga medallion.

A Stiga medallion is attached to the left side of the grip. There is also a very mild thumb rest that does not interfere with shooting left-handed.

Zenit front sight
The front sight is a simple post; all sighting adjustments are made here.

Zenit rear sight
The rear sight is a wide notch at the end of the cocking lever.

Sights

Since the rear sight is also the turned up end of the cocking lever, it cannot be moved. All sighting adjustments are made by moving the front sight. Raising the front sight makes the pistol hit lower and moving the sight to the right sends the pellets to the left. Where the EM-GE front sight has graduation marks, the Stiga version is unadorned. Windage changes are accomplished by loosening the pinch bolt on the front sight and rotating the sight as needed. The sights are simple but quite usable at the shorter ranges at which this pistol will be used.

Trigger

The single stage trigger is all metal with rounded edges and is comfortable to use. The pull is a bit heavy at six and a half pounds, but it is smooth. A narrow blade makes the pull feels heavier than it really is; a trigger shoe would really help. Although the Zenit has no safety it does have a simple anti-beartrap mechanism that prevents the pistol from being fired unless the top strap is in the closed position.

Too perfect a copy

One area in which the Stiga exactly copies its predecessor is the end cap design; only four lugs and tension from the main spring keep the power plant buttoned up. There should be a small pin in the rear of the spring guide that enters the hole in the cap to lock it in place, but that is not present on my pistol. The end cap is otherwise free to rotate. The Zenit’s main spring has a good deal of preload, and due to this tension the cap will not turn easily. With a worn spring my guess is that the cap can rotate during firing and fly straight back at the user – ouch!

The pinhole in the cap of my pistol lines up with the rear sight notch making it simple to check for unwanted loosening on each shot. Even so, I am a little nervous when shooting the pistol. It’s just another good reason to always wear shooting glasses! It should be noted that Milbro modified the rear cap design to eliminate this flaw on their Zenit clone.

Zenit end cap
The Zenit’s Achilles heel: only friction holds this cap (and the mainspring) in place!

Editor’s note

I have broken Paul’s report into two parts, and we will end here today. Part 2 will run on Monday, when he tells us about the pistol’s operation, power and accuracy.

148 thoughts on “The Stiga Zenit – an EM-GE Zenit clone: Part 1

  1. B.B.,

    Looked it up but not being an American I still don’t get the opening sentence of Billy Joe McCallister jumping off the Tallahatchie bridge. Nice song though by Bobbie Gentry “Ode to Billie Joe”.

    Siraniko


    • Siraniko,

      I think the real mystery is what both of them threw off the Tallahatchie bridge!
      Some have said it is more of a tone poem that needs a Southern accent and ear to feel and hear the beauty in it.
      I found I hard to like when I was just a kid because my English was very standard. Once I had lived in the South for a number of years I could finnaly hear it too!

      shootski




          • Thanks Dave,

            Those are really good links. The comments of some of the folks show a real misunderstanding of country and especially the grinding poverty of the rural South at that time. A few folks get it. Hollywood doesn’t often get it but on rare occasions like in the scenes in An Officer and a Gentleman when Mayo comes back for the girl working at the papermill. I went through Navy flight training while the Vietnam War was killing aircrew at 4 times the equivalent rate of ground pouder casualties, during the early days in ‘nam.. The dances at the O’club were open to local women and called Hog Calls! The local women were desperate to find an officer to get them out of there and the guys were just looking for…really sad how most of the stories ended! I hunted a great deal with firearms in those days and always gave the local farmers most of the meat from my harvesting. The South is doing better today but there are still some areas of grinding poverty. You just can’t see it from the Interstate highways!

            shootski


            • Shootski, first off, let me thank you for your service to our country!
              My wife’s high school sweetheart went to Vietnam and never returned; hence, while I make it a habit to thank all veterans for their service, I go a little extra out of the way when I see a Vietnam Veteran hat or sticker (like yesterday when I tapped on the side of a car as the guy was already pulling out of his space at Home Depot…he was cool on it, though =>).
              That scene in the papermill was great; I wish more of those stories ended that way in real life.
              And that’s awesome about you donating your game harvest; I’m sure it was very much appreciated. Lots of young’uns at our church want to “go on a missionary trip to another country to help the poor.” And my wife and I are like, “You don’t need to leave the country; you don’t even need to leave the county! We can show you plenty of poor folk to help right here (in Georgia).” As you said, it’s better than it was, but there are still plenty of folk that could use a helping hand. Thanks again for your service.
              take care,
              dave



  2. Paul,

    Great write up!
    I suspect Chambers stocks parts for the Mlbro manufacture and not for the there producers versions.
    Have you tried them for your guns missing pin?
    Hopefully with B.B. wide readership someone will have a source for one.
    Looking forward to part 2

    shootski


  3. I do enjoy the offbeat airguns and BB always springs a suprise. Thanks for the write up Paul
    looking forward to more. The Zenit looked familiar to me and looking through my L Wesley
    book on Airguns and Air Pistols I found a photo of a Zenit repeater


  4. Definitely don’t like how the end cap is held in place.

    Makes me wonder if it’s a low velocity gun with a weaker spring. And I imagine the fit of the cap was probably made pretty tight.

    Still yet. Don’t think I would like to think that the gun might be shooting me instead of me shooting it. Not my idea of fun.

    But overall it’s always interesting to hear about and see pictures of different types of guns.

    Always nice to have pictures. And will be waiting to hear how it shoots.


  5. Paul,

    Thank you for the fine write up. Having the Blue Book, I was quite surprised at the values with a 100% being at 350 and a 60% at 125. I would not have guessed that if I ever ran across one at a show or yard sale. I like that front sight. It looks like it would be a nice option even today. Looking forwards to see how it performs. Chris


  6. Paul
    Looks very similar to a Daisy wire stock in cocking action only operating totally in reverse and backwards. This one pushes a spring the wire stock pulls and in opposite directions and pivot points.

    I can’t imagine that trigger guard is user friendly but it does look a little better than ones I have like it.

    I have two China made West Lake break barrel pistols and the entire weight of the pistol is transferred to my middle finger directly under it when I hold it. Not being a collectable I totally re-bent the guard to turn up behind the trigger and then come back down just enough to clear the trigger. It’s now really comfortable to shoot. It never even touches my finger any more and it also increased the usable grip space. Looks like it could also benefit from a little recessing into the grip.

    I’ll try to send a pic later.
    Bob M



      • Chris
        Got sidetracked with my ex being in the hospital and a few other things. I should be receiving my Hellboy Tactical Air Rifle today along with some Dust Devil BBs.
        I’ll try to set up my Crony and do additional shooting soon. I did mention that I was able to hit a beer can at 80 yds., 2 out of 2 times. Once on High and once on Low setting with the rifle filled very close to the max pressure. I wanted to use a better scope to check it out, the UTG 4X16X56 Bubble I have.
        Bob M


        • Bob,

          I do remember the 80, 2 for 2 (now that you remind me). While just a quick test, that is a very good indicator of good things to come. If it pans out under ideal conditions, that means that they got the barrel right. That would be very good thing. I think that most people would be thrilled with a 1″ @ 50 yards. Thanks,.. and keep us posted on the NOVA.


        • Bob M
          The Hellboy is suppose to be field strippable like the firearm version. And metal construction right?

          I’m interested to hear how realistic it is. And how the Dust Devil bb’s do.

          And how’s the holding air doing with the Nova. I think you said the burst disc needed tightened into the gun a little tighter. I think I remember you and Halfstep talking about that.




  7. Paul,

    That is a way cool air pistol. I really like how it operates. I am certain that should that old gal decide she wanted to live elsewhere, I could probably find a place for her at RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns.



  8. What a great report! Love to hear about the unsung airguns from the past.
    You mention that your pistol’s barrel is rifled, do you know what the twist rate is?
    Just wondering when the now normal 1:12-16 came into being? Was it thought trial and error or science?
    How well does it group?
    Thanks again,

    -Yogi


  9. Gunfun1

    Yep, I use my chronograph the same way you use yours. In .177, the R9 is a 13-14 foot lb rifle. In .177 the HW50S is about 10 foot lb.

    Am waiting patiently for the Williams peep and the two Gehmann parts for the R7. I think that will make an awesome combo. Thanks again for that info.

    I am really impressed with both the R7 and R9. The quality, precision, balance and accuracy are superb.


    • Pelletpopper
      Thanks for the response here.

      And yep that’s what I like about my HW30s I have and the HW50s I had. The balance of the gun and ease of shooting.

      And you know what I have to say shame on me. Ya know why. Back when I had my HW50s I only was thinking scopes. Well and I had a few pcp’s with red dot sights. But never did the peep sights. Right now I can’t put my HW30s down. It’s just to easy to shoot with the peeps.

      I’m glad your trying out the Williams peep. And yep I agree try it with the Iris that comes with it. But I have to say the adjustable iris of the Gehmann peep is the stuff. It gives you so much control it ain’t funny.

      But I’ll be waiting for what you think. Cause I think you will have more to say. And again it sounds like you got a nice refurb from PA with your R7.

      As it goes I choose Gunfun1as my handle for a reason. Have fun shoot’n. 🙂


  10. Paul:
    Doesvthe term “Zenit” in both the German and Swedish variants meant to be zenith? As in highest point directly overhead? Or does it have some other meaning?
    It never ceases to amaze my what this blog will serve up on its history Friday menu.
    Thanks for the look back at another “offbeat airgun”.
    Respectfully,
    William Schooley
    Rifle Coach
    Venture Crew 357
    Chelsea, MI


    • William,

      The astronomical usage Zenith is Zenit in the German. But as for the companies usage of the name Zenit was probably equivalent to our using Premier, Tops or Best of the Best. I’m not a proficient practicant of Swedish, as I am of German and its many dialects, so maybe someone else can speak to that.

      shootski


  11. Off topic, but air gun related,.. (shipping cost)

    Sold the LGU to a fellow in Kansas. Total cost was 25.03 from Ohio. Prior, I shipped a TX200 one state over. Shipping was 47.56. What was the difference, besides 22$? Both UPS. Both cheapest (read slowest) rate.

    TX was through a local hardware store that charged 12 for S/H, plus tax. Base charge was 27 and 6 for 700 insurance.

    The LGU was through work UPS, 600 insurance. Base charge was 29 (incl. ins.) minus a business acct. discount which made it 25.

    The purchasing guy said that shipping business to business was cheapest. This was a business (to) residential send, which added 3-4. Both had similar weight, package size and insurance. Both had {nothing} to do but weigh it, fill out the on-line form and apply a shipping label.

    Bottom line, figure 25 if can stack the odds in your favor, figure 50 if not. The 25 could have around 20 if it had been sent to a business.

    Just some FYI for anyone interested that may be wondering what it cost to ship an air gun on a private sell.


    • Chris
      So what’s on the list next to get. I figured when you sold the Tx you would of got another air gun. You know what one I suggested a couple times. So you going to get something?


      • GF1,

        Really?,… no clue. I did spend some time looking at some high end stuff today and nothing “jumped out” at me. Repeater, cheek riser, light-ish, good looking. Adj. butt plate very good. Regulated. Quality.


        • Chris
          Did you check out the AirForce guns. They are a nice modular gun. You change barrels in like 5 minutes. So you can put different legnth barrels in for different power. Then you can get different bottles that have different valves for air flow. You can use one tank that gets 100 shots or more per fill or put one that will give higher power with less shot count. Or one that comes with the gun. And they are very accurate.

          I was going to get one of thier Co2 adapters and use the regulated HPA Air Venturi 13 cu inch bottle. So they can be regulated too if you do that mod.

          Just throw’n it out there for ya. But on the other hand that money would by you a fair supply of pellets too. 🙂



            • Chris
              I know you like repeaters. And I know you talked about the Fortitude because it does have a magazine and the regulator and shroud. But your Maximus doesn’t. So maybe you could live with a AirForce gun with no magazine?

              And remember the SS models are silenced with the barrel inside the frame and they have the sound lock baffles in them. But if you put a longer barrel in they won’t be silenced. Or you can go the other way around and put a short barrel in a model and buy the sound lock baffles separately. Oh and they are Lothar Walther barrels.

              And on another note they have the Escape series of guns that they kind of call thier survival guns. They are kind of cool. They make way good power and offer a silenced model too. I think some of them are up in the 1100 fps range in .25 caliber.

              But what’s cool is like with my .25 Condor SS. I can put a .177, .20 or .22 barrel in it. And caliber barrels come in 12″, 18″ and I think 24″.

              So alot of choices with the AirForce guns for sure.


            • Chris
              And you know what here’s one that interests me. I like the semi-auto stuff and it’s alot cheaper than the two FX Monsoons I had.

              And I have had a Hatsan AT 44-10 QE pcp. It wasn’t semi-auto like this one in the link I’m posting. But just to say it was a good quality gun and was quiet and accurate.

              But here is the semi-auto one. Check out the pictures. It’s got some nice features.
              https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_Barrage_Semi_Auto_PCP_Air_Rifle/4335


              • GF1,

                It does have a lot of features. I have always said that about Hatsan, very innovative and good priced. It did not get the best reviews from the few that were there. It reminds me of my M-rod with RAI stock, bi-pod, 6 position FAB Defense butt with riser. It fits me perfect for a bench rest rifle. Maybe just reg. it? Mod. it some more? The FX line is appealing. Daystate too. Both have some issues with offering ambi levers and stocks. I shoot left. Plus I like a fairly long LOP, 15 1/4″- 15 3/4″.

                Outa’ here for now. Back in the early PM.


                • Chris
                  Did you see it comes with 3 magazines also. And what’s cool is you have a loaded mag in the breech and the two other mags store on each side of the stock right behind your trigger hand.

                  And talk about a fast follow up shot ready like you like. The semi-auto Hatsan would for sure do that. And then what about fast action plinking with it. The question is would you like that kind of shooting. With the semi-auto you would have that option too.

                  What I’m waiting for is the Hatsan Sortie-tact. It’s the Sortie pistol with a butt stock. And I think it’s even suppose to fold. Right now the Sortie is in the $500 range. So I’m hoping when they release the Sortie-tact that it comes in around $600 or ao.. If so that’s the one I’ll be getting. I was hoping it would be out already. But haven’t seen anything yet.


                  • GF1,

                    If you are wanting a semi, I would strongly recommend that you check out the Huben K1. It is absolutely awesome! Yes, it costs a little more but you get a lot more.


                    • RR
                      I never heard of it till you mentioned it. Nice gun but I don’t care to much for bull pups.

                      And after getting one good FX Monsoon and one not good one. It’s going to take some very high reviews before I get another high dollar air gun.

                      What’s that saying. Once bitten twice shy. Yep that’s what I’m talking about. I got alot of things I want so if I get something now I make sure it’s worth my time and money to get. So far I have been making pretty good choices.


                  • Gf1,

                    No Hatsans for me. That 900+ would go a long way on something with a solid reputation. Plus, since PA is in Ohio, I get the privilege of paying sales tax too. Roughly another 72$.


                    • Chris
                      Well there’s a good thought.how about this for a change. 🙂

                      What semi-auto pcp with a good reputation would you suggest for me to look at? Seriously.

                      I was looking at getting a Wing Shot air shot gun. But probably more things add up to why I’m not going to get one. Not bad things. Just probably not practical for me. Right now anyway.

                      But really what kind of reasonably priced semi-auto pcp would you recommend for me.

                      So far it’s the Hatsan Sortie-tact. And no I don’t want no battery operated Evanix. I done had one of the Evanix Speed semi-auto pcp’s. Made me feel like I was shooting a air soft gun. To me not worth the $1500 they want for them either.

                      Hmm maybe I should just stick with my $125 regulated WildFire/1077 half breed I made. Well maybe $250. And gaurentee I’m having just as much fun with it as I did with the $1500 Monsoon that worked. And to say at least it’s a better chance to take with a WildFire than spend $1509 on a Monsoon and it not work like the other I had.

                      Anyway you know what I mean. And yep I feel for ya on the tax’s. That sucks. Darn tax’s anyway.


                    • Chris
                      And forgot this.

                      Now I really want a price point semi-auto pcp.

                      We got all these price point pcp’s and pumpers like the Nova. Now it’s time for at least on lower priced semi-auto pcp.



    • I’m the ‘fellow in Kansas’ with a new (to me) LGU. I’m a happy air gunner. The rifle is in great shape with a smooth shot cycle. Thanks so very much to Chris USA for the excellent transaction.

      All my respect,
      Randy


      • Randy,

        I am glad it arrived in fine shape. As you can attest to, the packaging was over kill. I am glad it has found a good home. As very fine as it is, it was not getting shot much here. She deserved better than that.

        Chris


  12. Chris,

    Sometimes an affiliation vwith an organization can get you a group or business discounted rate. I’m a USAA member and use a FedEx account through them. So see if beyond shipping through your company connection you have other opportunities to get a discounted shipping rate.

    shootski


  13. BB
    Do you think you may have an opportunity to do a blog on the HellBoy M4 Carbine in the near future? If so I will hold off on getting too deep into it, having received mine already.
    Bob M


  14. Has anyone tried applying threadlocker directly to the dovetail rails as a means of stopping scope creep? In the days before wide availability of tactical rails and threadlockers I used clear nail polish on scope mount threads to ensure a more secure install.

    Planning some “me” time with some of my airguns after the home and car maintenance chores are done. Need to mount a scope on a very nice .22 RWS model 94 that I bought several months ago. It and I are feeling neglected.

    Dan


    • Dan,

      I seriously doubt that will do you any good. You either need mounts that hold very securely or have a stop pin or use a scope stop like this.

      https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Sportsmatch_Scope_Stop/7860

      You can also use this as a place to mount a bubble level if you feel so inclined.

      Here is a mount you may give consideration to.

      https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Drooper_Scope_Rail_11mm_to_Weaver_Adapter_Compensates_for_Droop_Stops_Scope_Shift/4191

      This will help with not just creep, but droop also.

      I have this one and the longer version of this one which PA no longer has.

      https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hawke_Sport_Optics_1_Pc_Elevation_Adapter_3_8_to_Weaver_Rail/4163

      The long one they have now is not adjustable.

      As you can see, there are many options for stopping scope creep. Unfortunately, threadlocker is not one of them. A good epoxy might work. 😉


    • GrandpaDan,

      RidgeRunner’s post below has some very good advice on stopping scope creep on spring piston airguns.
      The right Tread locker on the mount bolts/screws (but doesn’t work on the rails themselves in my experience) works well only after everything involved has been throughly degreased (especially the mount(s) but only to get rid of the silicone/Balistol/gun oil we slather on our airguns and the parting/lubricants agents manufacturer s use making mounts, etc.) and the dovetails for proper clamping action of the mount-rail Once all the degreasing is done thread locker on the bolts/screws and using an inch-pound torque wrench (absolutely needed) to get an EVENLY tight but NOT too tight lockdown.

      If you already do all this then just ignore this post and accept my apology; perhaps it will help some newbi who reads it.

      Fellow proud Grandpa!

      shootski


    • Dan
      Your clear nail polish just might work good on the dovetail too.

      That stuff drys pretty hard. Each of us maintenance/techmachinist has a different color finger nail polish we use on the outside of the head of Allen bolts for three reasons. One is to show that part we replaced has been worked on. Who done the work. And to lock the bolt. How’s that for job accountability.

      I know it works in the situation I just mentioned. On a dovetail I don’t know. But it sounds like something to try that’s for sure.


    • Dan,

      Yup on what Ridge Runner said. Trust me. The drooper mount is solid, has a stop pin and also will insure the your elevation knob stays down, even though your rifle may have no droop at all. Plus, it is P/W rail which is better for springers anyway IMO. Then you can go with a set of low rings. Chris


    • Dan,

      Also, BKL mounts are good. You have to spread them to get them on an 11mm.. You use one of the screws (on the opposite side) and jack/spread them open to get them on. Remove screw and they are very tight, even without the screws installed. They are supposed to be best for self centering too. At least that has been my experience.


      • Chris
        What would you do if you had a gun that didn’t have a scope stop hole. Or like the drooper mounts that over hang and rely on catching on that spot. Some guns don’t have the place to to do that.

        That changes things a bit. Do you bury the rear scope ring stop screw into the top of the dovetail? I wouldn’t.

        I have double ringed scopes before. Two in front of the turrets and two in back. That has worked for me. Matter of fact that’s what I did in my Diana 54 Air King I had. And I didn’t even have a drooper mount on it. For some reason the two Diana 54’s I had that was .177 and .22 caliber didn’t have the natourious droop. But anyway they never moved on the dovetail and the 54 Air King’s are suppose to be scope killers. Needless to say I still have my Hawke sidewinder scope on my .25 Condor SS. So that makes that scope about 8 years old.

        But I will say the self centering BLK mounts are nice. I have used them before too.


    • Dan
      Oh and forgot. I got caught up in the nail polish stuff.

      No what you mean about me time. Been working to much overtime and doing work around the house. My me time has been suffering. Makes me feel like ole Gunfun1 is getting rusty. Not. 🙂
      But yep let us know how your shooting time goes. Several months ago. Now that is neglected. I hope you and your 94 get some quality time together. 🙂


  15. GF1,

    (from above),…. I have no clue. You have already had some higher end stuff, so you are already a better judge than me. I have spent about 2 hours total looking so far,… many new sites which I need to learn to navigate. And, if you think I was slow and took my time on research before,…. this pushes that to a whole new level.

    Really,… no clue. I just started looking and you never know,…. I may end up doing nothing at all.



      • GF1,

        True semi auto would be nice. But, one more thing to go wrong, maybe. I would not mind having to cycle a handle/bolt for each shot,… as the M-rod does.


        • Chris
          When I was a kid on the farm and me and my buddy’s went out plinking it was with semi-auto .22 rimfire guns. We had pellet guns but they were mostly for pesting around and in the barns and such so you didn’t accidentally damage equipment and such.

          Basically .22 rimfire was cheap in relation to how air guns and pellets are today. Each of us would go through a brick of 500 in a weekend easy. Back then the .22 rimfire bullets was around $10 for 500. So we popped them off like there was no tommorow.

          I have a bolt action Savage 93 in .22 in.17 hmr. That basically holds 10 shots in the clip. Definitely fun to shoot. But no way compares to my old Winchester 190 I got as a kid at 10 years old. It’s a semi-auto incase you didn’t know so you don’t have to search about it. But I still shoot it from time to time. Still makes me have the feel like when I was a kid.

          Semi-auto shooting is a different kind of shooting than bolt pulling. Savage now makes a semi-auto in.17 hmr which Buldawg has one. I have been very seriously getting one of those too. So as you see two semi-auto’s on my list right now.

          But what do you think about that kind of semi-auto shooting. I’m talking going out and blasting the heck out of stuff as fast as you can pull the trigger. But also slow down and target shoot without taking your finger off the trigger to cock the bolt. You always say you like that you can stay in target with your bolt action mag guns better than your single shot guns like the Maximus. Well imagine not having to even move a any amount off your target with a semi-auto.


          • GF1,

            Of course that would be nice. So would a machine gun. 😉 Without looking further,.. I would have to say that I would opt for the repeater versions over the true semi-auto’s.


            • Chris
              Don’t get me started on full auto’s.

              I will only say I love em. But… And I don’t want to get government discussion happ’n if you know what I mean.

              And really on a repeater. Maybe you missed the important thing I mentioned. You don’t have to move your trigger hand and finger of the trigger for the next shot.

              Ok here. I’m doing a ten shot group with a repeater. (And a note. A air gun rotating spring loaded mag like your Marauder has is used for a PCP repeater or semi-auto pcp. In most cases.) So every shot I take I lift my trigger hand of the trigger. Cock the bolt. Place my hand. Get on the trigger. Sight the target and shoot. And I do that 10 times for that group.

              With a semi-auto I get on target. Bull the trigger. And guess what. Now with a semi-auto I get back on the target shoot and do that 19 times.

              You tell me which has less variables. Easy the semi-auto. And talking air guns I don’t care about the argument about a semi-auto feeding like with firearms. Remember my note above that a air gun still uses a spring loaded mag like a repeater uses.

              So you tell me why a semi-auto air gun would not be as good as or better than a repeating bolt action air gun.

              I myself would choose the semi-auto.


          • GF1,

            And, that bolt is not re-cocking by some kind of “magic” on a Co2 or PCP. Air is getting used which lowers the shot count. That is air (over and above) what is propelling the pellet.


            • Chris
              If they would put a regulator in a semi auto pcp it would probably perform real nice.

              And here is something for ya. My FX Monsoons I had would get 2 12 shot mags per 3000 psi fill. Well I could get 8 more shots out of another mag but why. Just go with the 2 mags so you don’t have to do partial mag loading

              So imagine what it would of done with a regulator. The air to cycle the bolt would be more consistent.

              And ok so I guess you think that there is recoil from the bolt cycling. This is true. But also you will find the gun settles back in. In otherwards wait for your follow through if target shooting. Then your back ready to fire again.

              I myself can shoot a faster 10 shot group with a semi-auto than a repater bolt action. And still get good groups.


              • Oh and what am I saying look at my regulated WildFire/1077.

                It gets great shot count now. But now here is the other thing. It’s not a true semi-auto. It’s a clip fed repeater. So is more related to a bolt operated gun but the trigger cycles the clip.

                But yes a regulator would work wonders on a true pcp semi-auto. Look what the name says. A regulator.


            • Chris
              Oh and I forgot.

              And this is important.

              There is no waisted air with the FX Monsoon and Revolution anyway.

              The monsoon uses the air that is behind the pellet after it leaves the barrel that is in the shroud. The air cycles a piston in the shroud back and has a rod that’s attached to the bolt that then gets cycled back.

              So no air waisting like a blow back Co2 gun that your thinking about.

              And the FX Revolution uses a adjustable air transfer tube like some full/ semi-auto firearms use. So with the Revolution you can actually open or close the pressure to the bolt kind of like a regulator. Only your regulating the bolt cycling. And that’s very important because of different weight pellets and the fit of the pellet. But thanks to FX’s smooth twist barrel that makes it easier.

              That’s why I didn’t like about the Monsoon. You had to adjust fill pressure to get the bolt to cycle right with different weight and fit pellets.

              And another note. From what I remember I think BB didn’t have any cycling problems with the regular Sortie pistol when he tested it. But might not be remembering correctly. I’ll have to check.



                • Chris
                  The Monsoon and Revolution are definitely in their own catagory. And then the battery operated Evanix are another story.

                  To me a trigger operated version of a Hatsan AT 44 would be the way to go for a semi-auto. Like the WildFire action and like your pellet pistol you have. To me that would be a more reliable semi-auto type gun.

                  Oh well what do I know. 😉


                  • GF1,

                    Less complicated. More direct. That also means that the trigger is doing some extra work/drag. With all of the talk about super sweet triggers,… I do not think that cycling a magazine would be in the chain of trigger events,…. just sayin’.


                    • Chris
                      Right. That type of action makes for stacking when you pull the trigger. Like the WildFire/1077 and your pistol.

                      The semi-auto trigger of the Monsoon is like a single stage trigger. You set your finger on it and touch it and it’s ready to fire. No second stage pull. No creep. You just rest your finger and go pop when your ready.

                      And you don’t want to adjust the trigger on a Monsoon. It messes with the cycling also. So you definitely don’t mess with a Monsoon trigger.



                    • Chris
                      Right and that’s another thing.

                      Clips and mags.

                      But yep one is rotated by the trigger mechanism the other by the bolt. But that does sum that up.


  16. What I would like for serious plinking is a select fire, pellet, or perhaps the new Dust Devil BB, M4 Carbine with at least a 30 round mag that easily uses a 13ci HPA bottle or an optional 88gr CO2 bottle in a fake 40mm grenade launcher looking container. Capable of 700-900 FPS. WITH an optional 12 gr CO2 bottle in the mag !! or a dual 12gr CO2 in the sliding stock tube….. Might as well throw in n ammo container that never runs out 🙂

    I may have to return the Hellboy Carbine If I can’t fix. The mag release button was not screwed down far enough to stay retained inside the receiver opening. It spins around and does not align with the opening to be depressed.

    Bob M


  17. Paul,

    Thanks for the report on the Stiga Zenit. I will be looking forward to the next Part. That is a very interesting pistole. You have great pictures. The front sight is a great concept for adjusting elevation and windage with a such a simple sight. I bet it is a bit fiddly.

    Thanks again,
    Don


    • Don
      I almost commented. But that’s like kind of what will happen when I get the front peep setup for my Condor SS.

      It doesn’t adgust for windage. But it does for elevation. And yep up is down and down is up. But I’m going to use the front elevation adjustment on it like they do on the rear sight of the Springfield. Only opposite.



  18. I have an update on a few things:

    I ordered the Base, Front Sight, part # CH2009-029 from the Crosman Challenger so I would have a dovetail to mount a globe sight on my 101 with the Maximus barrel. The barrel end fits on the standard Crosman barrel diameters like the Maximus barrel. I have been ordering the Hunter version Maximus barrel. The Challenger barrel end fits on the original Maximus barrel with the flat cut at the muzzle better, you get more threads on the set screw with the flat notched barrel. I had to grind the tip of the set screws down to the threads to get two full threads on the set screw. The Challenger Base-Front Sight is thin on the center of the dovetail where the set screws are. Either way it has two set screws and will give a solid attachment.

    The Barrel end adds about 2 1/4 inches to the end of the barrel The Maximus barrel is already long. With the Maximus barrel and Challenger barrel end on my Crosman 101 that gives a sight radius of about 29 inches.

    I guess B.B.’s report on peep sights caused a run on globe sights the one I wanted is on back order.

    I also have an update on my WildFire, I was not going to comment on it again but it started leaking so I ordered a couple of valve assemblies from Crosman (Halfstep kindly provided the part number), I was told they would be in stock soon and shipped separate from the rest of my order. When I received my order there was a barrel missing so I called them to let them know. While I had them on the line I ask about my WildFire valve assemblies. I was told the order had been canceled. When I ask who canceled the order I was told that the part was now obsolete. Ok then just give me the new replacement part. Then I was told they are keeping the valves they have for their own repairs. So the story was a little off. Then they said their priority was selling guns not parts. At that point I was getting a little steamed. I told them that one of their biggest assets was their continued parts availability. Something has changed at Crosman, There seems to be two different locations for their service department. One with folks that are pleasant, helpful and knowledgeable, and one just the opposite. Initially I figured they were upgrading the valve assemblies for the WildFire, now it sound more like they are going to discontinue the WildFire. That’s just my guess, I don’t know.

    I took the WildFire valve apart and gave it another tune up and it is working again for now with the 1500 psi fill.

    Also the new Maximus barrels I just received were not up to their normal high quality. The inside of the .22 cal barrel has rough areas throughout the length of the barrel both on and between the rifling. It does not look like rust it looks like the metal was torn instead of cut clean. The .177 barrel has a couple of lines running straight down the barrel from end to end crossing the rifling. I have not tested either barrel yet. I will report when I run some pellets down range.

    I have always been a fan of Crosman so I hope they get it back together. I hear they have some new investors. I hope the investers are not out to milk the company dry and walk away.

    Don


    • Don
      Yes you did give a…how do isay this. Good tirade. Or is that a good tirade of bad.

      Anyway now you make me wonder. It’s been a while since I ordered through Crosman. And another company did take ownership of Crosman a while back. So who knows. Maybe they are getting help from the local temp service are something now to try to save money. Who knows. But I do know how that works at the shop I work at. Usually not good.

      Or maybe someone in the parts department got moved to a new job. The (parts counter) and they got a aditude. I know, I know you ain’t suppose to be that way at work. But you know what I mean I’m betting.

      Anyway. Have you shot with that barrel yet? If it shoots good that’s all irrelevant.

      And ND that’s good that front sight works on all the other Crosman barrels with the flat on them. That’s the barrels I always get from Crosman. Just so I can keep all my Crosman swapping the same.

      And hmm it will be interesting to see if anyone else has this happen from Crosman. And by the way. Did you notify anyone at Crosman about how your service was. If not then no sense in bringing it up. Don you know me by now. Say something to them. That’s were it will count.


      • GF1,

        You make a good point, I will send a message to Crosman and ask for an explanation. There is more I could have added to my tirade. Hope I am not turning into a grumpy old man. It usually takes quite a bit to get my hackles up.

        As I said, I have not tested those barrels yet and they may be ok. They do not look clean like the previous barrels I have ordered. I bought these as spares. When I get time I will put them on a gun and give them a test.

        Don


        • Don
          Yep if some one up above doesn’t handle the situation correct then they are in trouble.

          As it goes now with what all you said is Time Will Tell.



            • Don
              I have emailed them before. They have responded pretty fast.

              It’s the weekend of course. But I bet they will respond by Monday or Tuesday.

              So I’ll be waiting to hear what they say. Or maybe you should of reminded them what year we live in now. By that I mean the internet year. Maybe you could of had a chance to open some eyes on both sides of the fence.

              Who knows until then.


        • Don,

          With a buy out,… the upper echelon may be following along with the orders from “above”? Follow or get replaced? You have mentioned in the past of getting super help and service from the parts dept. in the past from one employee and getting just the opposite from the next one. Dropping the parts service/sales and focusing on gun sales makes perfect sense from an investors stand point. Their parts cost are quite reasonable and attractive. Maybe too much so?

          Ok,.. profit is profit. Raise the price on parts,… but,… do not do away with them. They are a (stand out) in that respect. That earns my respect,… and business.


    • Don,

      Wow. You have been on the “front line” of Crosman orders and what you say is not good. If they drop/curtail their parts business,….. They,.. Have,.. Lost,.. My,.. Business. That is the ONE thing that kept me a fan of the brand. Thank you. Keep us posted.



      • Chris
        Yep now it’s wait and see how it’s handled.

        And yep you might as well go to one of them other manufacturers and call in a order and see what happens.

        Maybe you won’t have no brand to follow. And I’m serious. No joking.


        • GF1,

          No joke? Yup,… no joke. It is getting hard to know who to trust and just how long that you can trust them.

          On the “plus” side,… air guns DO seem to be taking off. More offerings than ever! On the other hand,… confidence in (brand) is everything. A few bad (immediate = internet) reviews and confidence gets lost REAL fast.


          • Chris
            That’s a good point.

            So how did my dad know to get me my Winchester 190 46 years ago when I was 10. Buy the way that still shoots as good as when I got it. There was no internet to tell if something was good or bad.

            I myself think the internet is good. But in other ways if you don’t have commen sense your screwed.

            But here is why I think it worked back when my dad got me my 190. Probably because he shot different brand guns. He shot with his buddy’s face to face. They knew what worked because it was right in thier face. It wasn’t hear say. It was hands on.

            And I can say that things that are made back then was usually built to last. Not throw away like everything is today if it don’t work.

            That goes along with me buying that China compressor. Why get it. For one it’s cheap. Another it performs as well as others that cost up to 5 times more than it does. So guess what buy it and save some money. Throw it away if it breaks. If it don’t and keeps going then the gamble paid off.

            So I’m afraid that that is how it’s going now days. Every one seems to be stepping back instead of forward.

            And you know that makes me think. And why would it be two German companies. Weirauch and Feinwerkbau (FWB) that still make quality air guns. And parts are still available for 50 year old guns.

            Maybe it’s how thier companies are ran. All I know is I would hope any company I contacted about parts or whatever else I may enquire about. They should have a professional aditude. If not. Somebody is going to know about it. At that company I mean. No doubt in my mind. Heck even if I was to call into Pyramyd Air. We keep them alive. They don’t keep us alive.


  19. Just spent a little time on the RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns back porch merrily flipping a 3/4 inch spinner at 10 yards and popping a feral soda can at 25 yards with my 1906 BSA and my early 20’s FLZ Militia. What a nice way to relax at the end of a day.



      • GF1,

        You try and make me think. It hurts.

        Who? No clue. Why? To shoot it.

        Of course these answers are based on the “original” purchasers.

        As to the origin of the aforementioned saying? Once again, no clue. All I can offer is speculation and it is too early on a Sunday morning for me to do even that. 😉


        • RR
          How about this.

          Just go grab your gun and set on the porch and enjoy shooting it.

          There that wasn’t so hard to think about was it. 🙂

          And it seems I heard that somewhere already. 😉


    • RR,

      Good advice, I am headed for the back porch and some plinking. Not sure what gun to grab I think my Benji 312 with the bent barrel just for old times sake. I can still hit a can with it.


      • B-D,

        I find I prefer shooting these pieces of history. The quality of these air rifles are second to none. To truly reproduce these air rifles today would cost thousands. They were not cheap in “their day”. These were also competition air rifles and they shoot as well as modern air rifles. A modern airgun has to go a long way to impress me.

        OK, now I will step down off my soap box.

        I do hope you enjoyed your time on the back porch with the 312. Even with a bent barrel it should do pretty decent, assuming you can adjust the sights enough. I am certain it will do well enough to keep the pack of feral soda cans at bay.


        • RR,

          This 312 is a real looker she just in not much of a dancer. Once I get the wndage and holdover/under in my head it is not bad cans at 25 yds are 50/50. I bought the gun for $20 as a parts gun. I am sure the barrel was bent from the factory. It was missing the stock but the gun was in about 90% condition. It pumps and shoots like new. I was able to straighten the barrel just enough to be able to shoot it. I made an offset peep for the rear sight. It sits just off one side of the barrel.

          It is sighted in at 15 yards closer it shoots to the right and further it shoots left. The gun was not made for competition but the one I had as a kid was very accurate. The pumping is so smooth it is a pleasure to shoot. The gun was pretty hot by the time I put it down. I put one of codeuce’s spinners at 10 yards, i hit it most every shot. All in all a very nice evening with an old friend.


    • RR,

      Since I am in the market and since you have a RAW 1000MX,…. what made you decide to get (that) over ANY thing else? So far,… it is down to a FX Crown (blue laminate), Daystate Red Wolf Seri Rossi HP or maybe the top end Air Arms S510 Ultimate Sporter FAC.


      • Chris,

        The HM1000X in .357 is tuned from the factory for the JSB 81 grain pellets. Mine is one of the older versions which puts out about 100 FPE at the muzzle and is still carrying around 50-60 FPE at 100 yards. I have shot 1 inch CTC five shot groups at 100 yards with it. The quality and performance is absolute top shelf.

        The truth is I was at an airgun show in North Carolina and I was looking for a FX Impact when I ran across this and knew it needed to go home with me.

        Those you have listed are top shelf also and I am certain you would be quite pleased with any of them.


      • Chris,

        I have an Air Arms S510 Xtra FAC with walnut stock and an Air Arms Galahad regulated FAC bullpup with walnut stock. Both are .22 caliber, beautiful, adjustable, smooth triggers, and powerful. I would recommend both of them. You would not be sorry.

        The one that is still on my wish list is the FX Crown in blue laminate. Maybe next year.

        By the way, I love the LGU. It’s supposed to rain tomorrow so it will be a good time to hide in the basement, put on the scope and sight it in.

        Thanks again,
        Randy


        • Randy,

          I think the LGU was sighted in at 33? yards, using Chairgun as the guide to keep the pellet in a 1″ kill zone the longest. I do believe that I noted the dimensions of mount to gun and scope to mount and hopefully the rings to scope. I had really wanted to remove just the mount with all attached,.. but it was just not going to work the custom fit LGU factory box and still get it all in.

          I ended up going with the Daystate listed above. The other ones could not flip the bolt/lever. I shoot left and I was not going to spend that much and not be able to flip the bolt/lever. It arrived Thursday. It is nice, beyond nice. I got the .25 high power. It is 198 of 200 in the world and that 200 had to shared with .177, .22, .25 calibers. Only 50 made it to the U.S.. Check it out at the Daystate site. It is the Serri Rosso one.

          The blue laminate FX Crown would have worked too, but no bolt flip. I still need to get a scope for it though.

          Take care,…. Chris


  20. GF1
    Dish Satellite is punishing me for continued use after running out of time, NO pics being transferred.

    The mag release button was able to just unscrew from the transfer shaft and come off. Being loose it would rotate slightly and prevent it from pushing inward to release the mag. I took a chance, oiled it and tightened it one full turn without scratching the surface paint and it popped into it’s cutout and now operates as advertised.

    The trigger is really bad. They may have used a bastard file to make a link that slides along a pressed pin for the first stage.

    No blowback, no full auto possible. The link above simply pushes in and down on a 90 degree spring loaded block at the top back corner of the mag. The top is raised until the link slips off in back and lets the block slam down on the air valve in the mag under it
    The hand guard, carry handle sliding part of the adjustable stock


    • Continued ..( Computer locked up ! )

      the outer barrel ( LH Threads) forward of the fixed sight and the flash hider all come off. The pistol grip although removable is not interchangeable, mount block too big.

      The stock tube is not screwed on and locked as usual. It has a small screw and nut attachment inside.

      By the way I’m talking about the Hellraiser Hellboy M4 Carbine BB rifle.

      It appears to be a very nice replica, probably an Airsoft conversion. Nice and solid, heavy with an Airsoft 40mm grenade launcher attached ! Bad A++ looking 🙂

      I put a quick release 4×32 AR type rubberized small scope with an integrated red laser and ‘blue’ illuminated reticle available on it as well.

      I have not shot it ye, had it all apart for a look over today. Should be a fun plinker !
      Bob M

      It’s all pot metal, or undetermined metal, not steel. The sliding stock was pretty loose. I replaced it along with the handguard. Used an extended rail that mounts on the top rail and holds a quad rail metal hand guard out front.

      The ‘inner’ steel barrel is spring loaded so as to push a nice big rubber seal inside up against the mag.

      It floats a bit inside the outer barrel


      • Bob M
        You mention a air soft conversion to bb guns. That has been brought up before.

        I actually got into air soft for a bit and mixed it in with my air gun pellet shooting. There are some really cool replica air soft guns. And bb guns too. I had a sniper air soft rifle with a UTG fixed 4 magnification golden image scope if I remember right. But it actually shot pretty good out to 50 yards. And real good at 35 yards. Was shooting biodegradable air soft balls.

        Sounds like the Hellboy is a nice replica but still not a exact when it comes to take down or I guess I should say field stripping. Which they don’t seem to be anyway.

        I wish it had blow back. That’s what I like. I want some bump when I shoot a replica gun. Not trying to put the Hellboy down. It’s just what I like. I got a ISSC M-22. Cool shoot’n little blow back gun. Like the Legends blow back P08 with the working toggle. That’s some cool stuff there too.

        But what I’m waiting for is how well it shoots. How do you shoot anyway? What I mean is are you going to plink with it? Maybe set up silhouettes? Mini snipe maybe? Or to simulate practice of a firearm version. You mentioned plinking. But I just wonder what kind of plinking you do.


        • .GF1
          I really don’t do much shooting at all other than pest control. When ever I feel like shooting I’ll grab one set up some junk to shoot at and have at it. That’s why I’m not that picky about accuracy unless I really need one to be. One minute of beer can accuracy is fine for me usually. Mass quantities of lead usually insured I hit what ever I shoot at…eventually! Figured out how to shoot semi-autos really fast !!
          I collected Airsoft before they started making replica airguns. I spent many years shooting real steel for fun at informal California ‘Authorized’ shooting ‘Areas’ ( Void land in the boonies ) and eventually it got old. Ammo got expensive and Ca closed most of the local shooting areas.
          Bricks of .22 and assorted serious stuff from 9mm to 308cal made for lots of long shooting days.

          Now where I retired to I can shoot in my yard but it’s real quiet so airguns work well to keep distant neighbors happy. They don’t have to fire off location shots to avoid strays.

          I need to make a trip to a medical recovery facility tomorrow and it pretty much wastes a day. I can’t exactly plan ahead too well.

          Sounds like the new select fire with blowback will be a hit if it ever comes out
          Bob M


          • Bob M
            I can say that pretty well sums it for me too.

            I prefer plinking anymore. Some target shooting when I get a new gun or make changes to a gun. And then the pesting when the time arises.

            And yep I do like the blow back on replica guns no doubt. Like the P08. I would get the one with the working toggle over the other ones that are available any day. That’s the whole point to me of the replica. Not only to replicate how it looks but also how it fires.

            Well out to cut grass. Had off and on rain for a few days so didn’t get it done. But when I do get done I’ll have a fresh cut yard to do some serious fun plinking. 🙂


          • Bob M,

            I too don’t shot a lot other than pest control. But, when I do shoot, I want an accurate gun. Like Gunfun1 says, only accurate airguns are interesting to me. I have struggled with shooting my Diana 34 breakbarrel in .22 cal. My pesting success rate was pretty dismal. Then this spring I went to the “dark side” and purchased a Gamo Urban. Now my pesting rate is near 100%. I have rarely missed and when I have, it’s been caused by a hurried shot. Yesterday was a good pesting day. I dispatched two starlings and two grackles from my woodpecker feeder. Bad day for pests 🙂



              • Hi GF1,

                No, as long as the Urban does what I need, I really do not have plans to buy another airgun. One breakbarrel springer and one PCP will do nicely for me. Some of the fancy high priced PCP airguns, which are way out of my price range, won’t do anything the Urban can’t do. Some may have more FPE, but I don’t need more than 25 FPE. My Urban is exceptionally accurate and fully capable of taking small game up to raccoons or woodchucks. I am very happy with the size, weight, and most of all, accuracy of my Urban.

                Like B.B. said last summer, some of us are not collectors or airgun enthusiasts. We just want a tool to accomplish a need. I will say though, my tool is a lot of fun to shoot. 🙂

                Geo



                  • Chris
                    After our conversation yesterday I realized something.

                    All you have is 2 Crosman products now after selling your springers.

                    One Maximus and one modified Marauder. And your Co2 pistol.

                    I just got to ask.

                    Aren’t you curious about how other air guns shoot? And I don’t mean by what other people say. But by what you see in your hands.


                    • GF1,

                      Forget the Co2 pistol. The M-rod and Maximus are nice. As far as your question,…. uhhh? Me? I do not have the time or the patience to (try and buy) and (try and buy) different air guns. I ((will)) not do that. I do my research, buy what I can afford and roll the dice.

                      Like I said before,…. I may do nothing. On the other hand,… if I do,… there is no limit. I am my own worst enemy when it comes to buying something,…. as in,… I am pretty good at talking myself right out of it. Then again,…. 😉


                  • Chris
                    I can understand what you mean.

                    But for me I seen to many people get their lid cut short.

                    My curse is I want to exsperiance as many things as I want as possible. I enjoy life. And I live it as best I can.

                    It could all be over tomorrow. Just like that with a blink of a eye.

                    So get what I can when I can. And I get what I want. Well most of the time anyway.


                    • GF1,

                      By the way,… while I am thinking about it,… if we ever do an air gun deal again in the future,….. FORGET about ever offering your cell phone as part of the trade!

                      That thing would have been a 50 yard target a LONG time ago.

                      😉 ,… just sayin’.


                  • Chris
                    But the thing about my phone is it does so many things so good.

                    So like other things in life I let the bad things slide.

                    Aint that what love is?
                    😉


                    • GF1,

                      I know where your coming from with cell phones. I have a friend that’s always razzing me about not having a smart phone.

                      Being set free with a cell phone? I don’t think so. People are tied to their smart phones to the point of being dangerous. It is said on average a person has to check their phone every ten minutes. I know if I had one I would waste too much time with it. I do think cell phones have a purpose. I want my wife to have one when she is driving by herself in case of a breakdown or whatever. I have a flip phone I carry sometimes when driving somewhere by myself. I just think people get too preoccupied with cell phones. It amazes me how you can type on those tiny little buttons with your thumbs. I think everyone will end up with arthritis in their thumbs when they get old.

                      I get it about having more than one airgun to experience the idiosyncrasies of the various types. If I had unlimited resources, I might like to buy different airguns to experience them also. But it can get very expensive to experiment.

                      It’s good to get other opinions on things…thank you for your comments.


                  • Thanks Chris. It’s like having a good marriage. If one is happy with their wife, why would they shop around for something better all the time. I know some do but I do not understand the reason myself.

                    Love your comment to GF1 about his cell phone. I feel exactly the same…would make an excellent target. I tell my friend when I am riding with him and he is having problems with his phone, “give it to me and I’ll through it out the window for you, problem solved” 🙂


                    • Geo
                      But how could I see what’s up on the blog when I’m not home sitting in front of a computer.

                      A cell phone is like being set free.

                      And about different guns. They are like a good wife when you find the one.

                      But when you have other air guns it’s like having a friend. When you find good friends you keep them. If they ain’t then you let them go. And when you have a bunch of good friends you know you have something to depend on.

                      I like to exsperiance the different characteristics of different air guns. When you do that and become familiar with them. That makes you better in multiple ways.

                      I know sometimes it’s good to be simple. But in life multiple things happen. And when you exsperiance them it makes you learn. Learning is good in my book. No matter if I learned something good or bad. It made me better.

                      When you get stuck in a certian way. Like no cell phone how can you really know if you don’t try.


                    • Geo
                      See that’s exactly what I’m talking about. With air guns and cell phones.

                      If you don’t have a cell phone how do you know. To me that’s not very open minded.

                      Seriously here’s one for ya. You know how we had a blog a while back about tools. Well guess what. A cell phone should be there.

                      For one you have access to so many apps that allow your phone to do different things.

                      Like I have conversion apps, ballistic programs, a stop watch, photo shop, pages of things I want or access saved and pictures.

                      I can go on and on. In other words my phone can do pretty much everything a computer can.

                      Here’s another one. People call the cell phone camera the modern mirror. Back in the old days I needed a flash light and a mirror to see a leak dripping from a machine back behind hoses and other things. Now I just pull my phone out and take a picture. And then like if I got to put a new frequency drive on a machine and don’t have a wiring diagram. Well I just take a picture now before I take it apart.

                      Speaking of taking apart. With my cell phone I can access diagrams or videos of needed when I work on everything from cars to air guns.

                      All I can say if you ain’t stepped up and got on the ballgame with a cell phone you are behind the times.

                      And this is coming from someone that didn’t even care for this technology 30 years ago. Now I wouldn’t have it any other way. To me a computer is like living in the Stone age.


                • Geo
                  Yep the right tool for the job.

                  Speaking of that. What distance you shooting wood Chuck’s or raccoons at?

                  And where your from is a wood chuck a ground hog? What I have seen is ground hogs are bigger than what people call wood chuck’s.

                  Wood Chuck’s are bigger than squirrel but not as big as ground hogs. Matter of fact I would say a wood chuck is close to a prarrie dog.

                  Maybe we all call them something different depending on where we are from.

                  And I guess that means your happy with your Urban. And yes accuracy definitely matters when pesting. If you got a good pesting gun it should definitely be a good plinker.


                  • GF1,

                    I haven’t had to shoot a raccoon or a woodchuck in a couple of years. I shot a raccoon that was raiding my bird feeders with my first airgun which is a Crosman Nitro Venom .22 caliber. He was standing on his hind legs eating out of my bird feeder about 3′ off the ground. I shined a light on him and shot him between the eyes at 12 yards. He dropped as if shot with a .22 rimfire. He weighed about 15 pounds.

                    In Michigan, woodchucks are the same thing as ground hogs. They get pretty big like you say, up to 20 pounds or so, much larger than a prairie dog. They will burrow under buildings and cause the foundation to crumble. They will also eat tomatoes in the garden. I shot one that was trying to burrow under my storage barn. He was going across the back yard and I grabbed the Diana 34 and shot him at about 15 yards. He was tough to kill though and it took more than one pellet to finish him. He weighed about 10 pounds I would guess. Those are rare pest for me to dispatch normally.

                    A chipmunk is a very tiny little critter. I don’t consider them to be pests and we actually feed the little guys and laugh at them packing their little cheeks with seeds and then carrying them to their den. Gophers are a different story. They are larger than chipmunks but much smaller than woodchucks. They burrow holes in the yard leaving mounds of dirt where they dig their dens. They have stripes like the chipmunk but additionally have black spot along with the stripes. They come out of their burrows and stand up like a prairie dog. I just shot one a week ago in the front yard with the Urban at about 15 yards…clean head shot.

                    Yes, the Urban does everything I require and I wouldn’t change a thing on it. I did change the trigger screw to a longer length to achieve a very nice trigger with no creep and a clean predictable break.


                    • Geo
                      Yep we have Chipmunks and gophers too. And wood chuck/ground hogs.

                      Why I had the question about wood chuck’s is I was watching American air Gunner one day and the Dog Soldier was shooting wood chucks with a Gauntlet.

                      What they called wood chucks looked more like gophers or prarrie dogs. In other words much smaller than what I know as a ground hog. The ground hogs around here get big. At least 15-20+ pounds.

                      That’s why I was wondering about what a wood chuck was.

                      Oh and that’s why the question about what distances you was shooting at. I have shot raccoon and ground hog. They both are tough critters. But distance makes all the difference.


                  • As I recall, you are located in Illinois. I think we have the same woodchucks and gophers here in Michigan. Woodchucks here get bit too. Twenty pounds is not uncommon.


              • GF1,

                Me? 1) Chipmunks 2) Squirrels 3) Woodchucks (whatever that is) and then the “big boy”,.. the Ground Hog. Never shot and weighed a Ground Hog,… but I bet the biggest one I have seen would push an easy 15 if not 20. Average may be 10#.


                • Chris
                  Ok. That makes me wonder now too. Where does a gopher fall into?

                  Where I’m at we have gophers, and ground hogs.

                  And the ground hogs are big and tough where I’m at.


                  • GF1,

                    Heck,… I do not know dude! A gopher is just a malnourished ground hog? I gave you my run down/size on critters (here). Maybe over your way you got ya’ some of them Big Foot’s? 😉


                    • Chris
                      Big foot. What?…
                      Did I ever tell you the story about when me and my buddy’s was in the woods when we was kids?
                      😉


                  • GF1,
                    Acording to Wikapedia a woodchuck is a groundhog meaning the same animal. Also knowen as a marmot. To me it is a bigger rodent and needs to be removed from the garden.
                    Gerald


                    • Gerald
                      Agree with removing them.

                      Where I’m at they will burrow in the ground and make tunnels. Imagine a mole trail but on steroids but down under the ground.

                      What they do around here is they make wash outs on levee’s and hills.

                      So at some point in time you might not have a drive way to go down. They definitely tear stuff up.


                    • Participant,

                      Well,… that is good to know. So far,… a wood chuck is similar to a Chipmunk,.. but smaller,… or,…. mid-sized to a Ground Hog,… or,.. an actual Ground Hog which can grow quite fat. Then,.. somewhere,… Prairie Dogs fit in. Lest we forget Marmots.

                      All in all,… I find it quite amusing and entertaining at the same time. I find the differences and descriptions in language quite interesting.

                      Either way,… if they are messing with your property,… well,… then they have to go!


                  • Gophers are a little larger than chipmunks and much smaller than woodchucks. They can be differentiated from a chipmunk by the additional black spots adjacent to the strips. They don’t hop like a chipmunk. They crawl along in the grass and stand up occasionally like a prairie dog. They dig burrows in the yard leaving large mounds of dirt at the hole. Chipmunks are tiny little creatures and don’t really do any damage.


                    • Geo
                      As you seen above yes we have Chipmunks here. From what I have seen they don’t destroy stuff like the gophers and ground hogs we have.

                      The ground hogs and gophers got to go is the way I see it. They will destroy things. I imagine there is place they could be. But not around my house.


                • Woodchucks and ground hogs are the same thing here in Michigan. Yes, they can get quite large. To kill one requires a clean head shot, preferably with a .22 caliber. They are tough little guys and can be very destructive to vegetable gardens and building foundations.


                  • Geo
                    That’s why I got multiple air guns and like to try different air guns.

                    My .25 Condor SS gets the job done fine with ground hogs.

                    Different tools for different jobs. Period. 🙂


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