Marksman Premium Grade steel BBs and speedloader: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Marksman BBs
Marksman Premium Grade steel BBs and speedloader.

This report covers:

  • Steel BBs
  • Steel doesn’t give!
  • Will they fit any BB gun?
  • Do I have a BB gun with a big barrel?
  • Loading through the magazine
  • What now?
  • Benjamin 700
  • More testing
  • Weight
  • The speedloader
  • Summary

No history report today, but there will be a lot of history as the report unfolds.

Steel BBs

If you are a veteran reader of mine, you know that I have harped for many years on the fact that steel BBs are labeled as 4.5mm, when they are really 4.3mm or so. Steel BBs range in size from 0.171- to 0.1735-inches in diameter. If you are curious about where the BB came from, read this report.

And then came the Marksman Premium Grade steel BB. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only steel BB in the world that comes close to 0.177-inches in diameter.

I measured five BBs and got the following:

BB……….diameter in inches
1……………0.176-0.177 — a range, depending on where on the BB I measured
2……………0.1765
3……………0.176
4……………0.1755-0.176 — a range
5……………0.175

Steel doesn’t give!

Lead bullets and balls have been famous for centuries because they are malleable and conform to steel rifle barrels. Steel BBs are not malleable. They do not deform. They are what they are and there is no changing them in any easy way. So, a larger steel BB presents a problem for smooth bores that have been manufactured to accept BBs that are 0.171 to 0.1735-inches in diameter.

What does this mean? It means that the Marksman BB is going to be very tight in most or all modern BB guns, and indeed if you read the reviews on the Pyramyd Air website, that’s exactly what everyone says.

Will they fit any BB gun?

What good is a BB that doesn’t fit any guns? Will the Marksman BBs fit any gun? The reviews say they will. They even feed through some magazines, according to those reviews. But they also got stuck in several guns, according to those same reports, so now I have to figure this out for myself.

Do I have a BB gun with a big barrel?

Right away the Pioneer76 BB gun came to mind. I know from past testing that it isn’t that accurate. Perhaps that’s because the bore is too big for most BBs. So I grabbed the gun and started evaluating the BB’s fit.

Step one was to drop a BB into the Pioneer’s muzzle and see how it fit. It went into the barrel about 3/8-inch and then stopped.

Marksman BBs Pioneer muzzle
The BB dropped about 3/8-inch (0.375-inches/9.525mm) into the Pioneer bore, then stopped. I’m showing this angle to show the depth, plus not be overpowered by the camera’s flash.

So, the BB seems too large for the Pioneer bore. But what if it’s just that one spot and what if it’s only slightly too large? I didn’t push the BB any farther because I didn’t want to get it stuck hard, but I tried something different.

Loading through the magazine

I tried loading three Marksman BBs through the Pioneer’s 50-shot forced-feed magazine. They went into the mag all the way, dropped to the bottom and seemed to make it around the curve at the bottom to line up with the bore.

Marksman BBs in mag
Three Marksman BBs are in the Pioneer magazine. The arrow points to the first one that has turned the corner and aligned with the barrel.

When I released the magazine follower the third BB was pushed into alignment with the barrel. Now I tried to install the barrel back into the BB gun. As you may recall, when this is done, the long air tube that sticks out from the plunger (piston seal) pushes the BB deeper into the breech.

But the shot tube would not go into the gun. I tried to push it in and it resisted. That means the air tube has pushed the BB into the barrel as far as it would go and the BB is now stuck. I can’t show you a picture of that because the BB is too deep in the barrel. But I can show you how we can tell that it is stuck

I tried to rod the BB out of the barrel with a cleaning rod from the muzzle. The shot tube was out of the gun while I did this. The BB is so stuck that the jag on the end of the rod was bent.

Marksman BBs bent jag
The Marksman BB is stuck hard enough in the Pioneer barrel that it bent my brass jag tip and still didn’t come out!

I will keep beating on that BB and eventually it will come out. How much damage I have done to my Pioneer magazine remains to be seen. But, am I dead in the water?

What now?

What more can I do? We know that the bores on modern BB guns are mostly going to be too small for this giant BB. Do I have anything else I can try?

Benjamin 700

Remember the Benjamin 700? I wrote about it last year. I remembered that it was supposed to have been made for steel Air Rifle Shot, but such things don’t exist — or at least I didn’t think they did! Air Rifle Shot was the name Daisy gave to the LEAD balls they downsized from 0.180-inches (size BB) to 0.175-inches to save lead and increase velocity. They did that around the turn of the 20th century. But I tried some of that in the Benjamin 700 and it didn’t work. It jammed in the feeding mechanism. But did it jam because of the size or because it is lead? I didn’t know.

Marksman BBs Benjamin 700
So far the Benjamin 700 seems to feed and shoot the Marksman BBs fine.

Then I dropped a Marksman BB down the muzzle of the 700 and it disappeared from sight. I cocked the gun, shot it and the BB came out. Next I loaded a BB into the spring-loaded magazine on the gun and it dropped all the way down. I released the follower and it went down all the way. I pumped the gun and shot that BB, which came out, as well. So, at least one BB fed through the Benjamin 700 magazine as it should!

More testing

I originally thought this would be a one-time report, until I read where people are shooting Marksman BBs with success. So more testing is in store. Now I need those of you with experience to tell me the BB guns you are shooting these giants in.

Weight

Speaking of giants, the description says these BBs weigh 5.1 grains. But that’s impossible unless they have air pockets inside them. They are steel spheres that are larger than conventional steel BBs that weigh 5.1 grains. These have to weigh a little more. So, I weighed them. I weighed the same BBs whose diameters I measured. The lightest was 5.6 grains, the next was 5.7 grains and three were 5.9 grains. So, there!

The speedloader

Buyers seem to like the speedloader better than the BBs themselves. It’s a soft rubber affair that looks like you have to cut the tip off — like a bottle of glue — but you don’t. It comes with a hole that’s just large enough to hold the BBs in place until the tip is squeezed. Then it releases the BBs one at a time.

Marksman BBs speedloader
Squeeze the speedloader bottle where my hand is and the BBs pour into the tip. They line up but cannot exit the tip until you squeeze at that point. There’s one BB caught at the tip now (arrow).

You fill the tip by squeezing the bottle behind it. And you fill the speedloader by removing the soft black plastic cover at the rear and pouring BBs in.

Summary

Marksman Premium Grade BBs are larger and heavier than conventional steel BBs. That means you have to match them to the gun you plan to shoot. I will do some more testing of this BB for both velocity and accuracy, but I don’t plan to do any destructive testing, so don’t ask me to try them in my Daisy 499.

94 thoughts on “Marksman Premium Grade steel BBs and speedloader: Part 1

  1. B.B.

    You know my experience with pellet loaders is that they wanted to feed 2 at a time.
    Maybe I have a heavy hand?
    My thumb works fine for pellets.
    Never loaded a BB gun.

    -Y



  2. B.B.,

    I think these were made for those combination pellet and BB guns like the Crosman 760 Pumpmaster and the Daisy 880 Multi-Pump. Probably in the hope of getting more accuracy with better fitting BB ammunition.

    Siraniko


  3. B.B.,

    If the steel bb remains in the barrel a quick shot of heat (with a direct heat transfer) to the outside of the barrel may expand the bore enough to allow the steel bb to roll out, probably toward the breech. Much of that depends on the metalurgy of the barrel and to a lesser extent the bb. If that doesn’t work a freeze followed by heat application may be needed.

    Hope you have no damage.

    Shootski


  4. B.B.,

    I’m thinking that these BBs may work in your Daisy model 12 and my Daisy model H. I need a round tuit for the piston seal. The rest of the gun should be functional if not reliable.

    Don


  5. BB,

    Siraniko may be on to something there. My experience with those type of airguns is they are horrible bb shooters. Perhaps this is there purpose in life.


  6. BB
    The Crosman Black Widow bb’s claim to be 5.23 grains and still .177 cal. May be just right?

    Never paid much attention to a bb’s size so once again I learned something and will be looking into both of them for use in inaccurate airguns.

    How about a wire coat hanger chopped off just enough to dislodge the bb without folding over. Hit it quickly with a very light hammer.



      • BB
        Try to avoid something from absorbing the shock of the impact like holding it in your hand or sitting it on a rag. Brass or aluminum will also absorb the impact. I usually use sockets to let things fall through the center.
        Not sure if a spring compressor could be used to apply tension before you whack it with a hammer. It works well in removing auto ball joints and helicopter blade mount bolts. They sound like a shotgun firing when they let loose. But then again your trying to shove something through a tight space not bust it loose.
        Press on !




          • BB
            And with my reply of a inch of the wood dowel rod sticking out needs to be from the muzzle end if the bb is stuck at the breech end.

            And really only a 1/8 inch of the dowel rod needs to be sticking out that you hit on. The closer the wood dowel is to the barrel the better.

            Let us know if you give it a try.


      • B.B.,

        I have an old Daisy BB gun that I sometimes use to chase the squirrels from my bird feeders if they linger too long. I’ve never left it cocked but one time I went to shoot it and nothing came out. I discovered that a BB had lodged part way down the barrel. I don’t know how that BB got there but it had apparently rusted into position and would not come out by tapping on the end of a piece of coat hanger. Finally, I gripped the coat hanger into the vise and slid the barrel onto the coat hanger, leaving only about 1/4″ to 1/2″ between the end of the barrel and the vise jaws to keep from bending the coat hanger. I tapped on the end of the barrel with a piece of wood and the BB finally dislodged and came out. It was sure stuck in the barrel tight though. The trick is to keep things as ridged as possible when tapping on the end of the coat hanger.

        Geo


      • BB
        The rod or the brush on the end of the rod like you mentioned.

        If so the brush is just wedging to the side of the bb and barrel.

        A wood dowel rod a little smaller in diameter than the inside bore diameter of the barrel is the best. And have it only stick out of the barrel about a inch when it contacts the tight bb or pellet.

        Then give some quick hard taps with a piece of heavy hard brass. That will keep you from damaging the face of the barrel if you contact it. And some extra insurance is wrap a old sock or shop towel around the wood dowel rod.

        Really this should work. I have done it before.


      • B.B. Pelletier,

        Tom,if you have not succeeded in removing the stuck BB yet, you can push it out on an engine lathe of sufficient size. Support the breech end in the chuck, tighten the cleaning rod into the tailstock (the end contacting the BB must be SOLID and FLAT) and simply push it out with the quill. Use a lubricant such as STP or its equivalent. I believe that if you wish to apply heat, an electric heat gun would be sufficient. Since hard brass can damage mild steel, you may have to slightly ream the bore in the area where the BB was stuck once it is removed to remove any burrs. This method is much gentler than hammering.

        Bugbuster


        • Hi Bug,

          You have given the best option for removing the stuck BB. I was thinking “heat gun” for heating the barrel slightly too. I use a heat gun at times when doing computer repairs. Mine has two heat ranges and you still have to be very careful with it. It will reflow solder. You are also correct regarding brass damaging mild steel. I’ve seen that happen too.

          Geo


          • Geo791,

            Thanks for your vote of confidence. In my humble opinion, that is the best non destructive solution that I can come up with to remove the stuck BB at this time. Possibly, it is already out which would make this a moot point, who knows? Once again, (in my opinion and I could be wrong) I believe that IF the cleaning rod had had a flat solid tip on it initially, the BB would have come out just by the inertia from dropping the rod down the bore. A little STP or even TIAT applied from the breech with a Q-tip wouldn’t have hurt either, along with a little warming with the heat gun. Sometimes, +.0005″ can do wonders. Oh well, lessons learned.

            Bugbuster



  7. B.B.,

    I’m sorry I suggested these for your Pioneer76. I shot two muzzle-loaded from mine, but they might have been just slightly smaller than the ones you have, and my barrel might be just a hair bigger. Also, I didn’t check to see if the BBs made it all the way down to the breech.

    Might you try a drop of very fine oil on the stuck BB from the breech side and stand the tube up on end for a day?

    This might not help you much because you probably don’t have one, but these BBs fit one BB gun of mine — my vintage Marksman 1911-looking pistol. I was one of the buyers who was drawn to the speedloader. I might try dropping (make that rolling) one down the muzzle of my Daisy 179.

    Michael




      • BB
        You lost me. You can’t cant drop bb’s into the barrel from the muzzle ?
        I am not familiar with that airgun but it looks like you can find a socket size that will let the breach threads slide into it and seat on the flange. Then rest it on a hard surface and tap away through the muzzle. using your cleaning rod. You should be able to punch it out. Assuming the mag bb follower is held back.
        Bob M


        • Bob
          I’m with you on this repair suggestion to get the stuck bb out.

          You need a solid surface to rest the barrel on. And quick hard taps are needed to free the bb.



          • BB
            Once again I have learned from an elder. Just remember what that ant had when he tried to move a rubber tree plant 😉
            I just ordered some Marksman and Black Widow bb’s, along with a Bushmaster, for some testing in inaccurate shooters and will try to avoid wedging problems with proper precautions.

            By the way Shootski’s suggestion about using heat is good but usually a last resort procedure if flame is involved.
            Bob M



        • GF1,

          How about a blast from a powerful PCP? Muzzle to muzzle? If anything, I would be afraid of back pressure in the tool gun and damaging a valve,… or something.

          Chris


          • Chris
            It would probably just blow by where the two barrels met. Even wrapping around the two barrels with a shop towel.

            But then again that all depends on how tight the bb is stuck.

            Who knows?


            • GF1,

              So,… from what I am gathering,…. slug the barrel with a pellet,.. measure it,…. and then choose very wisely from the (variable sized) bb’s that are out there? It seems that even dropping one down a long barrel (as a test) can jam it tight.

              Bummer,.. but from what I am reading it is a good thing to consider.

              Chris


  8. BB,

    Maybe you need to mount the rod in a vise and slide the barrel down over it, moving the barrel up and down instead of the rod.

    Kroil or such should not hurt any either.


  9. Maybe Marksman is making these BBs to be used exclusively in their own guns. I haven’t seen any more than the Marksman 2000K air pistol which is listed currently by Pyramyd Air, but perhaps Marksman makes other BB guns with barrels large enough to use the Marksman BBs.

    I just checked this website.

    http://www.marksman.com/airpistols.php

    It lists two Marksman pistols. The 2000K and the 1010C Repeater. Both shoot BBs.

    The AirGun Depot sight says Marksman is a sub brand of Beeman Airguns. Airgun Depot lists both the 2000K and 1010C Repeater pistols.

    I don’t have either of these so I don’t know if they shoot the Marksman BBs well, but being the same brand, I suspect the Marksman BBs work in them.


  10. Michael—–Monk still says it, on cable. I also get Monk dvd,s from my library. Me and my wife never saw Monk when it was on the air. We have become fans. What bothers me is this— a star trek fan is a trekie. What does that make me???———Ed


  11. BB,

    I just dropped a Marksman BB down the front of a Umarex Polymer Colt Python pellet/BB combo revolver and it fell right through. I then loaded one of the pellet clips with BBs. If you tip the clip they fall out so you must keep the gun pointed in the air to put the clip in the gun. Furthermore, the first BB will roll down the barrel if you point the gun below level. As the cylinder rotates each of the remaining BBs will roll down the barrel. I intended to shoot the gun to check the accuracy but ran into a problem that I want to share with your readers.

    I left a cartridge in the gun the last time I used it. It should have had some gas in it because the reason I left it in was to hold the valve closed as you and others have advised. The cartridge was empty, which is curious in itself, but when I put in a new cartridge it leaked from around neck seal. No amount of tightening would stop it. I tried another cartridge with the same result. Two weeks ago I wanted to shoot a BB only version of this gun and found that, although it did have gas in the cartridge that was left in it for a year or more, once it was expended I couldn’t get a new cartridge to seal. I tried several each of several brands with no joy. I put Lucas Transmission Fluid Conditioner on the seal for 3-4 days and that didn’t help. I’m going to try Lucas’s Transmission Fix, if I can find it somewhere.

    These two guns are identical except for the barrel liner, and I have two more of them and I will be removing their cartridges. I use Crosman CO2 mostly and I suggest that if anyone has these two guns and use Crosman CO2 that they rethink leaving a cartridge in the gun for any length of time.

    If I get the pellet gun up and running I’ll shoot the BBs through it and get back to everyone. It’s the only gun that I have that shoots both types of ammo, at least as far as I can remember.

    Half


    • Half,

      Tightening the cartridge as tight as it will go will ruin the seal. It tears from that.

      Try to only tighten until the cartridge is pierced. I understand what you did. I do it too. But it does ruin that seal.

      B.B.


    • Half
      I recall someone used Teflon pipe thread sealer tape on the CO2 cartridge as a temp fix. It stretches and sticks well to itself. I guess it depends on the extent of damage. The yellow tape is designed for gas pipes I believe and may be better at sealing CO2. Just a thought never tried it yet.
      Keeping pressure in the airgun only pertains to PCPs and pumpers, not CO2.
      Bob M


      • Bob
        Oh but keeping pressure in a Co2 gun does pertain too.

        If your Co2 is leaking your loosing shot count. I myself like to get Co2 guns that are skimpy with Co2 use.

        The Daisy 74’s are phenomenal with shot count per12 gram Co2 cartridge. My Colt Python is not bad either. About 120 shots with it. The Daisy 74 blows the Python away.

        But I think you see what I mean too.


    • Half
      Seems you are not alone with the bb retaining problem. The obvious solution would be to replace the clip with another. Not all have the problem. If the mag is plastic you can melt each hole with a soldering iron or hot rod to tighten it up some. If metal, a little peening with a centering punch can close it up some. Too much may require a proper size drill to open it up.
      Bob M



      • Bob M,

        I guess I wasn’t clear. I’m putting BBs in the clip meant for pellets, so it would be unreasonable to expect them to stay. I just wanted everyone to know that if they tried this experiment, expect to have problems with the BBs rolling out of the barrel when you aren’t expecting it. The pellet clips are metal and have 3 little ridges that would engage a soft lead pellet to hold it. They don’t grip the steel BBs without deforming the clip.

        Half

        Half


        • Half
          You are correct about that.

          The bb clips are smaller in diameter where the bb is loaded than the pellet clips.

          And what’s funny is the bb clips are plastic but the pellet clips are steel.

          I like the pellet clips myself.

          Oh and I think I mentioned this before. My Python likes the Daisy pointed pellets the best. Don’t ask me why. But definitely better than the Crosman pointed pellets.

          Maybe because the Daisy’s are softer than the Crosman pellets. I personally don’t like using harder pellets in my air guns. Kind of like shooting steel bb’s in a rifled barrel if you know what I mean.


  12. The Marksman Premium Grade BBs will not fit any of the guns I have that use the 499 shot tubes. None are actual 499 BB guns but the shot tubes are made for them. But that’s okay, the Daisy Match Grade Avanti ground shot shoots great in them, and are a bit cheaper to boot.

    I did a spot check of three rifled Daisy 880 barrels and one smoothbore barrel. The Marksman Premiums are going to be very close to working, but I suspect it will boil down to some guns will be okay with them and others not- they’re that close. But for the guns these BBs DO fit, they have the potential to shoot at a higher MV and improve accuracy. I know I’ll be trying them so thanks for bringing them to my attention.

    .


  13. I would be interested in the Marksman bb’s out of a 760.

    That may be the closest you will get to a 499 and fit of Avanti bb’s.

    Wouldn’t that be something if they work in a 760. Watch out. I’ll be buying them if they work 😉



      • Michael
        A 880 has a rifled barrel. It’s not a smooth bore like the newer 760’s.

        I don’t want to shoot a steel bb down a rifled barrel.

        But I would like to know if a larger diameter Marksman bb is more accurate in a smooth bore 760 than the other smaller diameter bb’s that are available.

        Did I make it a little more clear this time?


  14. Gunfun1—- You hit the nail on the head. I also drive the same kind of car that Monk used in many episodes. I will have to call it my Monkmobile !——Ed






            • From driving.ca: “[Jim] Wangers . . . orders two basic 1966 Pontiac GTO convertibles, each with the 389-cubic-inch V8 and hydramatic automatic transmissions. The first car [Dean] Jeffries built took just 10 days to complete. The second car took four. One would be used as the television car, and the second as a promotional vehicle, and each differed slightly. For instance, the GMC 6-71 supercharger that stuck out of the Monkeemobile’s hood rammed so much power into the engine the car was practically undriveable. The second Monkeemobile, the one used for promotional events, had weight added to the trunk and the rear suspension removed so it could do crowd-pleasing wheel stands. The TV show car had only the shell of the blower attached; a four-barrel carburetor would provide all the power it needed.”


              • Michael
                Good ole Pontiac engines.

                The 389’s were cool. But the 421’s we’re the stuff back then. Then came the 428’s. Then the 455’s.

                My buddy had a 455 Super Duty 74 Trans Am 4 spd our senior year of high school. It was a bad boy.

                I have had about 5 cars with the under driven big blowers and smaller positive boost overdriven blowers. All I can say is noth’n but fun when the boost comes up. 🙂



            • Bob
              That was probably how they blew off the boost if the engine hydrauliced it if it lost fire to a cylinder. I’m talking the extra pipes under the blower.

              Most of the 6-71″s and especially the 8-71’s had blow off valves between the intake manifold and blower base.

              I seen blowers go 200 feet in the air in the early days before they started using blower safety straps.

              Since the monkey mobile was a custom car as we called it back then. That’s probably why they did the extra blow off pipes. They just wanted something different on the car.

              You know what rat rods are nowdays? Well that’s kind of what the monkey mobile was in a way. Similar in a sense but also different. And yes I like rat rods too.


      • Michael
        You know there’s a lot going on with that car.

        Look at the rear flared fenders, no door handles or locks. Windshield wipers removed as well as the velance pannel. I wonder if the wiper motor is removed to reduce weight too. It’s like they built it to run but had all this customizing going on.

        I bet the front end is fiberglass even. That was popular back then when they was customizing a car.

        And any pictures from the rear of the car? Since it’s Pontiac powered I’m going to say it’s a 68 or 9 Pontiac LeMans. Or Tempest. Heck who knows. Maybe they chopped up a GTO back then. But I will have to say that the 69 GTO’s was one of the sexiest body styles back then.

        We need more pictures of the monkey mobile. 🙂



          • Michael
            Sure. I can really tell by the front view. 😉

            And I wonder what Jim didn’t have his hands in back then.

            And I still like the 68 and 9’s better. They are my favorite year midsize GM cars in that time period.

            And I got some eye candy I’ll post below here in a minute. So hang on if you don’t see it yet.


  15. Gunfun 1,

    If I get the gun working I’ll try some grease, but this is just an experiment to see if the gun will shoot the extra large BBs better than the smaller BBs.

    Half


    • Half
      For Gods sake try to let the oversized bb’s try to slide through the barrel first and avoid a ‘Gaylord’ situation.

      Yes I was confused about the Python. Looks like they were stretching the point about dual ammo. Unless of course the larger bb’s work. I just ordered some too.
      Nice that the bb makers are trying to help us with bb’s that may fill the gap in the barrel, innet? Perhaps some ‘Saday’ I’ll get to ‘finout’ !
      Bob M


      • Bob
        The Colt Python that uses the clips is a rifled barrel pellet shooter. Forget steel bb’s in it.

        My Python is one if the better shooting pistols I have of that type. And no don’t compare it to a 2240 or a 1322/77.

        And the Python I’m talking about even has fully adjustable rear sights. Oh heck I know you know what I mean. 🙂


  16. BB,
    I’m a little late to the party but I didn’t see this possibility suggested regarding the stuck bb. As your measurements suggest, some of the bbs may be out of round and as they rotate in a tight barrel they will jam with a cam action. Trying to force the bb through will only tighten the jam. Continuing to force it will result in damaging the softer metal of the barrel. Do I have a good solution? No. Two possibilities previously suggested might be trying to reverse the direction of the bb or using heat to expand the barrel enough to release it. Others on the blog have much more experience than I and can hopefully offer a better solution.
    Mike L.


  17. My opinion…..
    Do not attempt to use these in any gun that you do not mind throwing away.
    Do not attempt to use these because someone else with the same model gun has done it successfully .Your gun does not have the same barrel.
    If you have successfully used these, what about the next lot coming from the factory????

    AVOID these .

    tt


    • TT
      Your probably right.

      Know what your gun barrel is first before you put these bb’s in it.

      This is a good example of pushing some lead pellets down a barrel then measuring the head and skirt diameter of those pushed pellets.

      Then measure a bunch of those bb’s before thinking about trying them.


    • Twotalon,

      Good points. Every barrel AND every BB will be different. I had good luck but rolled them down the muzzle and shot single-shot a la an Avanti 499.

      Michael


  18. We was talking above about the monkey mobile.

    Told Michael I had some eye candy to post below. Here it is.

    I owned all three of these cars at one time. The 442 was mine at that time. It was bought as a original owner car when I got it. That was the mid 80’s. It was a Canadian built 455, 4 spd car. And yes the whole car was built. Low 11’s for that one in the 1/4 mile. Check out the plates on it.

    The Pontiac is a 68 LeMans and it had a 389 in it which was rare. And again bought from the original owner. It had a turbo 400 tranny in it. It was one of the hardest shifting automatic tranny’s I ever had that was a factory original car. It would chirp the tires shifting into 3rd gear at 30 mph. If you was getting on it the car would snap your kneck when it shifted. And the owner swore he didn’t have anything done to the tranny. I painted that car to look like a Ram Air V car. I repainted it with the original turquoise body color and added the white Ram Air V stripes. It was fast but nothing like the 442 or Grand National. And I use to drive all 3 to the dragstrip when I owned them. With the A/C on. 🙂

    Ok had to do it back to air guns. 🙁






        • Michael
          I love the 69 Judges.

          You ever see a 69/70 yellow rally Olds with black stripes? One of my buddies dad’s had one when we was teenagers. I drooled on that car. Both front and back bumpers were painted body colored. But they was fiberglass from the factory. That was a quick way to do a imposter car. Some would paint the steel bumpers yellow and try to pass it off as a super car.


          • Ah! Olds. My dad’s best friend collected late ’60s Toronados, especially those with 455s. He might have had a half dozen or more. He kept the older ones out back in a barn as parts cars.


            • Michael
              Something else I think I forgot to mention above about the monkey car.

              Check out the diamond tuck interior. I think it was in the early to mid 70’s some factory cars started getting that interior. I believe the Buicks were among the first. Heck it might of been earlier even. The brain just can’t remember the exact seconds and minutes anymore. Let alone the dates. 🙂


  19. GF1,

    My brother,.. 1 year younger,… recently bought a Grand National. I never knew they existed. On the other hand,… I would take the other 2 in a second! 🙂 The body of the GN does nothing for me.

    Chris



    • Chris
      And forgot to mention.

      The Grand National was GM’s test bed for what is the modern electronic wars I call it. But not many of the other manufacturers we’re dabling yet. Ford was doing it. Chrysler too. But Chrysler was keeping quiet. They did have some cars come up that was fast in that time period too. The 86 turbo LeBron’s as one.

      What I see is they all was forerunners for that time and technology that was happening.

      And what I noticed is they worked. They may of needed refined. But as time went they progressed.

      I know there was fails throughout time. But they ended up making it work.

      Maybe air gun manufacturers should take note.
      Pretty fierce competition is what I see now days. Basically no time for wrong products to happen anymore. If that happens you will be behind now days. Plain and simple.


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