by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy 22SG multi-pump.
This report covers:
- The gun
- Blue Book
- What it this?
- Metal receiver
- Wooden stock and forearm!
- Pump mechanism
- Pump effort
- The scope
Here is a pellet rifle many of you have never heard of, yet it isn’t that old. According to the Blue Book of Airguns, the Daisy model 822 — a .22-caliber multi-pump pneumatic — was made from 1976 to 1978. But it resurfaced later as the model 22X, and after that as the 22SG with a scope that I’m writing about today. Mine has the model number 822 stamped on the barrel shroud. As I recall, Joe Murfin, the Daisy Sales VP at the time, sent it to me to test.
A lot of you talk about how much you like your Daisy 880s, and I have tested them for you in the past. The 880 is a smoothbore multi-pump pneumatic that shoots either BBs or pellets. The BBs are held in a gravity-feed magazine that feeds one at a time to the magnetic bolt tip, but the pellets are loaded one at a time into the bolt trough.
Today’s 22SG rifle is based on that same 880 action that so many love, only this one is a .22 with a rifled barrel. No BBs here! Pellets only.
I have reported on the Daisy 22SG, in the past but that was way back in September of 2005 and the report was very thin. This will be a full report, as long as I can revive my rifle’s seals with automatic transmission fluid (ATF) sealant. You see — I have not shot this rifle since 2005!
According to the Blue Book of Airguns, the Daisy 22SG was made from 2002 to 2007 and then reintroduced from 2010 to 2012. It was launched when the 22X, a non-scoped version, was discontinued in 2002. But as I said, my gun is stamped Powerline 822, so the design of this rifle really dates back to that gun’s run from 1976 to 1978.
The barrel stamp clearly says “Powerline 822.”
What is this?
The 22SG is a .22 caliber multi-pump pneumatic air rifle. It’s a single shot and the barrel is rifled. Maybe you don’t think it’s that different, but for Daisy it was. They were not known for their .22 pneumatic rifles. They were and still are known for BB guns and .177 pellet guns. So this rifle was a big departure from what they usually made.
Daisy 880 owners consider the earlier ones made with a metal receiver to be of major importance. And this rifle also has one! In fact, the pump lever and bolt handle are the only major plastic parts on the whole gun.
Yes there are open sights, but this air rifle was produced in this millennium so the front sight does have an orange fiberoptic bead. The rear sight is plain and has no fiberoptics.
The front sight is fiberoptic. The flash made the orange tube stand out.
The rear sight also adjusts for both windage and elevation. Windage is via a single screw that holds the notch in place and elevation is via a stepped elevator.
Loosen the screw and slide the rear sight notch plate to either side. The elevator is for up and down.
The 22SG is 37.5-inches overall with an almost 21-inch barrel. The real barrel is a thin soda-straw steel tube that ends in a plastic shroud just shy of the muzzle. A stamped and painted piece of sheet steel encases everything so it looks like a full steel barrel. The pull is 13.5 inches. The rifle weighs 4 lbs. 13 oz. with the scope mounted and, since this is a 22SG, that’s the only way it will ever be as long as I own it.
Wooden stock and forearm!
Apparently Daisy did not get the memo that hollow plastic stocks are what shooters really want these days. They put a genuine wood butt and forearm on this rifle, instead. Go figure!
Daisy designed the mechanism to be cocked before it will accept a pump, so you can’t leave the gun with a pump of air stored for longevity unless you also leave it cocked. Phooey! I even tried cocking and then pumping it to see if I could lower the hammer, but Daisy linked the bolt to the trigger. Unless that bolt is closed the trigger doesn’t work.
After more than 14 years of dormancy it should come as no surprise that my rifle would not pump. The pump cup was dry as a bone.
I oiled the felt washer and the pump cup with ATF sealant and worked the pump a couple times and she came right back. How far back she came will have to wait for the velocity test that comes next, but the rifle now pumps as it should. As I recall this rifle was capable of velocities in the high 500s or perhaps even the low 600s with light lead pellets. I will look to see if I have written this anywhere before I do the velocity test. Daisy advertised it at 600 and the barrel is stamped with “Use lead pellets only.” That may have been Daisy thinking that anyone shooting a Daisy would expect it to use BBs.
In 2005 I said the 22SG is the easiest multi-pump I have tested. I will now temporize that back to, “It’s one of the easiest,” because I really don’t remember if there have been others. But after pumping and shooting it just a few times to get it working again I can tell you that it’s still very easy. Of course until we know the power the effort doesn’t mean as much.
The Daisy scope is the thing that gave this rifle its name 22SG. SG = scoped gun. The scope is a 4X32 with no parallax adjustment — just what you would expect on a price-point airgun. But this one is quite clear and as I recall the rifle really groups good with it. We shall see.
The best I can remember this rifle is surprisingly accurate. If I wasn’t given the rifle by Daisy I may have purchased it from them for that reason.
I did a little research on the internet while writing this report and discovered that the 22SG is widely known by airgunners and firearm shooters, alike. It is regarded as a great value that is quite accurate. I think we have a good series starting today!
52 thoughts on “Daisy 22SG multi-pump pneumatic: Part 1”
Ohh I had one of those “back in the day”
From the first run.
I loved it.
Sadly my older brother borrowed it to solve a vermin problem he was having at his new home, and I never saw it again.
Years later I asked him if he still happened to have it, and he said he did, a few days later he handed me a tootsie roll Benjamin 312 that at one point in time had been polished to look like a brass bell on a naval vessel.
He never was a gun person.
These days Joe Murfin is Chairman of the Daisy Museum and is the go-to guy for dating Daisys made before ~ 1972 when the numbers changed so anyone could read the numbers.
As an aside, the 880 got a rifled barrel sometime in 1979. Before that, the 881 was the .177 rifled gun. Some info on the 880 can be seen here: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/daisy-model-880-dating-and-variation-info_topic8044.html
Unless all the triptophane from the turkey is messing with my mind I remember my Daisy Powerline 22X as being a high 400s with medium weight pellets and low 500s with light weights like a Gamo Match 13.9 grain logged as in the 512-518FPS MV in my dope book. It was logged as 1.3″ to 2″ accuracy at 30 yes. I sold the 22X and got a 75th Anniversary Crosman 2200W which had a bit more power 550FPS but not as much as a Benjamin 392 that would do 650FPS.
Good luck with getting the old girl shooting strong! From my records if you get 500+FPS you should be happy with her.
How long ago was that? I am very surprised that you would even have that information now, especially for an air gun. Is knowing the fps and logging something you have always done for years,… (no matter what) you are shooting? Chronies were pretty much unheard of “back in the day”, at least to the average Joe. Unless,… this was in more recent years.
Thank you for ARD (anti-reflective device) information. That is what I suspected. So,… another question: If looking for maximum light gathering = best clarity,…. then ideally no extension and/or no ARD are the best,… yes? In other words,… if you do not need either for (glare block/light block/detection avoidance),… do not use either.
Thanks as always,…….. Chris
LOL! Way Back right before the end of the last Millennium! Actually my Dope Sheet on my 22X indicates it was purchased in June of 1999 at Dawson’s. I catalog all my weapons and some other stuff like Matchbox and Lionel Train Items. Shooting Chronographs have been around for a long time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_chronograph I had to look it up since I had no idea how long before I bought my first one they had been around. I bought my first Oehler 35P in 1980 after I got back from a tour in Europe and was finally making some “serious” money. Remember that most consumer electronics took off once the price of Transistors became reasonable and that was the mid Sixties!
Want more knowledge: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/20/chronograph-accuracy-tips-15-practical-tips-to-increase-accuracy-reliability/ Great graphics on this one.
On the Sun Shields as long as they are size (diameter and length) appropriate they don’t effect light gathering. Anything that gets between the Field of View of an optic and the Objective lens will effect light gathering; even when it doesn’t appear to show up in your occular! If you have looked through a scope with a proper ARD mounted you don’t see it.
Thank you for the lesson in chronograph/electronic history. I was aware of most all of the chrony tips. I use the BB method of shining a 500W Halogen light at the ceiling (indoors). Works great and no outdoor hassles. Just make your stop/box can handle 50 fpe+ from a distance of 5′ or less! 😉
You sound quite organized. I am too,… just not that much. I had a QC boss that was career Navy. ALL of his “ducks” were in a row!,… if ya’ know what I mean. 😉
Good Day,………… Chris
“Just make your stop/box can handle 50 fpe+ from a distance of 5′ or less! ”
QUACK, QUACK, QUACK, QUACK, QUACK!
Perfect opening Chris!
Another reason for a LabRADAR no need for having a backstop that close or strong enough to deal with 500+fpe.
Also, I haven’t shot up a chrony in ages! Gobble, Gobble, Gobble!
I could go on about my love of my 880 with metal receiver & pump, but i would not go back to shooting one any more than i would go back to command line programming an 8bit computer.
Ok i would if i had an old 880, but that plastic pump no way i bought one and threw it away years ago. Am i dont feel out of line saying that the new 880 i bought felt like a violation i hated it. Followed that up with Daisy 1000 with about a 15lb trigger i tried sending in for repair they told me that was within expected pull and denied it as a defect and i will never buy anything under that brand again.
There are some of the older Daisys I would not mind having. I have a 1959 Model 99. To me it is the pinnacle of bb guns. I hear so many rave of the accuracy of the 499, but it is a muzzle loader single shot. I can load hundreds of bbs in my 99 and shoot until I am tired of shooting it. It is not as accurate as a 499, but it is pretty close.
Now BB has a “Daisy” I would really like to have, but I am sure I will have to go to the estate sale to get it. 😉
Out of curiosity, what Daisy is that?
Why, the FWB300 Daisy.
What do you mean, “Ouch!”?
I was all rev’ed up to be generous. But I need that one for comparison testing.
LOL! Hey, you know my tastes.
Yes,….. something that held a bunch of bb’s and shot nearly as good as a 499 would be a real attractor. Plus,…. you get to use peepers!
It is rough on the carpenter bees in the spring. 😉
I am aware plenty of you have one or another Daisy you like and i am sure i would, but when i have a rifle that i could tie a weight to and yet could cock and hang it up by the trigger only resting on a nail and it would be fairly safe that it would not fire in an earthquake and customer service tells me that is an acceptable trigger pull and within acceptable limits.
The rifle took so much trigger pressure that keeping it on target when it breaks was impossible and the company informs me that i bought the crap model that doesn’t have usable parameters. I was just buying my second air rifle trying to get back into it 2005 and the idea that a company could sell a product in an unusable state and be fine with that was an alien concept to me and at that point i could care less how many supposedly fine air rifles they produce. Today i would take it apart and fix it, but at that time all Gamo triggers were abysmal and i couldn’t buy another Daisy with any confidence. At that point i started reading and to my shock and genuine horror, but i dont wish a trip down horrible memory lane about the state of the industry.
In the end we all vote with our dollars and nobody was happier than me when Daisy was sold and while i liked quite a few of the higher end guns and was sad to see them discontinued. They are not the same company now and the manufacturers have turned around in the last decade.
I do understand. My Daisy was made in 1959. I was going to buy one of those reproduction Daisys, but the trigger was so absismal I could not think of buying one, most especially at the price. They were just for collecting and looking at, not shooting. If I cannot shoot it, I do not want it.
Always been a fan of the 880 style. Have had several through the years,… but none now. The first one was probably back in the early 70’s. I find it funny that the 2 most used parts on this one are plastic. You would think that they would have opted for a plastic receiver first, on the way to making it cheaper. At any rate,… looking forwards to the testing of this one.
Some here may remember the last 880 I bought new,… I promptly tube cut the barrel shroud off in order to make it into an arrow shooter. It worked. Yup,… it “lobbed” an aluminum bolt about 15′. LOL! 🙂 Oh well,… I learned a thing or 2 along the way,… one of which was about arrow building and the critical balancing of the arrow’s components. The aluminum shaft fit like a perfect glove over the exposed barrel by the way. I also shot 12″ bamboo BBQ skewers from it. Coat hanger wire darts too. Even different sizes of TIG welding rod. All muzzle loaded of course. To provide the “just perfect” seal,… I used some 3/8″ wide masking tape. I also played with shrink tubing as a sizer and to provide an air catching “skirt” to help catch the compression blast. All fun stuff.
Good Day to one and all,……. Chris
Well, this is most definitely uncharted territory for me. I have never fooled with any of these. Around here airguns are for old geezers like me to fiddle around with. Kids dream of the day when they get their first .22, their first single shot shotgun, their first centerfire. BB guns and such do not hold their attention for very long.
Spell Check: Title under barrel stamp picture. What it (is) this?
The wood on the fore arm is beautiful! Who wouldn’t want that on their gun?
The rest of the stock, not so much…
Yeah, I noticed that, too. I guess the workers had a bin of buttstocks and another bin of forearms and they grabbed whatever was next.
I know this design by the pump handel, which I always liked, but I think I was looking at the smoothbore version.
Foghat was on the FM radio all the time.. The real problem for Daisy was Kerri Winter in 9th grade in 76′.. took the wind right out of any B.B. gun sales from me anyway. I had to metriculate a few more years and record albums to re- discover shooting, and that came in the form of a break barrel springer, whichI still have, and shoot regularly. Nice quality ammo is so important.
oh how I loved the old 880’s. My friend’s 880 was more powerful and would outshoot my old Crosman 760. That said, I never owned the .22 version. I always wanted one. I saw them for around $99 forever and always thought I’d pick one up. Then “Boom”, they all vanished! Wood and Steel. They were a favorite on the late James House. Easy to shoot and “accurate” for what it was intended. I’ve suggested to Daisy many times to crank them back up. I was really hoping when Gamo bought Daisy, they come back out with that one and some new fresh guns. No such luck.
I’d love to see Daisy bring this air rifle back. I’d buy one. But, then, I’m a shooter that really has a thing for multi-pump airguns. One thing about the 880 design is that they are easy to work on.
I have a new model 880, plastic that it is. Used it last night to end a big fat rat from eating at the chicken coop all you can eat buffet. The 880 must be very efficient with it’s air pressure. Even at 6 pumps it’ll easily send a wdcutter through both sides of a stout corrugated tin can.
Shich reminds me. Ihave an older Remington Airmaster 77 with metal receiver that seems a bit anemic. Though it shoots well, even at 8 pumps it will not penetrate even one side of a tin can. Just leaves a dent. Accuracy is decent. This gun is the same as the Crosman 2100B except for a couple cosmetic differences. I’ve had it for about 11-12 years and it probably has 500 pellets gone through it. I lube it every time I shoot it with 30 weight non detergent oil.
I’m a bit concerned that Crosman may drop the 2100B in favor of the newer Legacy model with plastic receiver. I understand the newer Airmasters have gobe to plastic receivers.
A good reason to have a metal receiver happened to me. I have a Crosman 760 with pladtic receiver. I had mounted a scope with both rings ahead of the adjustment knobs, and ahead of the breech also. Shot it that way for maybe 2500 shots. Then someone knocked the gun over, and must have hit the scope. It broke out a section of the dovetail that the scope rings fasten to. I was able to reposition the scope and rings, and the gun lives on. I didn’t see the crack, but suddenly the gun’s zero was off, and I saw why when I found the break. If it had a metal receiver, it would’t have broken. Buf, the gun lives on.
For me, the biggest problem with the metal receiver 880s is that the majority of them came with smoothbore barrels. If an 880 rear sight is screwed on, it’s a smoothbore. Tack welded = rifled. And they use an intake seal that costs north of $30.00. Most of the metal receiver guns also have a narrow loading chute best used with wadcutters. There are a few years (mid-1985 to mid-1986) that they made the 880 with metal receivers, wide loading port, no warnings and instructions cast into the receiver and with rifled barrels. They are worth having in my opinion.
The best shooting gun I own personally uses the new rifled barreled action from Daisy ($12.00) installed into a metal receiver ‘parts gun’. The new 880 can be resealed for a couple dollars with parts bought from Daisy.
Yeah, my 880, after pumping up, and seting the pump lever, sometimes pops the lever open. It oes it with a fair amount of force too. Hence, the 6 pumps, rather than 8-10. It’s less likely to pop open with 6. I have the seal kit to fix it, and be tackling that pretty soon.
Happy Saturday everyone!
In case you can’t tell, I’m taking advantage of some rare time off this holiday weekend to make up for months of lost “blog time”. Ha ha. Okay, not for some “pot stirring” — If you were going to buy a PCP, and wanted to step up from .22, would you get a .25 or a .30 caliber? Let’s say you want to use this for some hunting / larger pest control, and possibly some distance shooting. Think prairie dog hunting to Extreme Bench Rest. Which caliber would you go with? And I know, there are many factors here. Forget about the specific airgun — although I’d like to hear your thoughts on which you would get too. What’s on your wishlist, if you were getting one rifle, in either .25 or .30, and why. Okay — Go! . Looking forward to reading everyone’s thoughts.
I would like to hear some opinions on that as well. I went with the .25 Red Wolf for ergonomics and drop dead looks and curves. The FX Impacts are making the rounds heavy in the competitions. The Red Wolfs were all over last year,… but seem to have faded a bit. Since you are catching up,… check out HAM and some of the recent reviews on the latest Extreme Bench Rest. There is some really new up and comers on the block.
EDIT: Daystate came out with the Safari model Red Wolf. New electronics and 20% more power. I would give that one a REAL hard look. Use in competition might be limited at this point though.
So yes,… I too would like to hear some comment’s.
(too many people still in the turkey comma and long weekend, lazy mode,…. me thinks) 😉
Coma,…. not comma. “Coma”,.. as in (deep sleep, caused by injury or disease). Man! I hate when I do that!
🙁 ,…… Chris
Ha! My OCD saw that, but I knew it was just a typo. Bugs me too, when I do that.
Man, you must be right — all the readers are still sleeping off that turkey! Or, you and I are the only ones interested in .25…..
I haven’t been on here as much and didn’t know you had gotten a Red Wolf. A couple months ago I was in Scottsdale on business and took an Uber over to A of AZ (Man, that was an expensive Uber!). I got a tour of the place and looked at several rifles, including the red laminate Red Wolf. That is a good looking rifle, in all configurations!! Which stock version did you get?
My one concern would be the electronics. I know Daystate have been putting those out for a while. Guess I’m a little concerned about longevity. What are your thoughts? How is battery life?
What’s that in your last comment about the power? Is there a power limitation for EBR and similar contests?
I got the limited edition one that is more red than black. It is the HP one. Serie Rosso. I would be surprised if they still had one as only about 10 (total) of any configuration were for sale in the U.S..
The electronics seem fine. The batteries can go 5 years with regular charging. I shot mine for a month and the low batt. indicator never did come on. I believe their advertisement says “thousands of shots,…”. $50 new from a of a.
The Safari Red Wolf has new electronics (GCU2) and the new ART barrel. Mine is the std. GCU and ART barrel. The new GCU makes 20% more power and is not compatible with the old GCU. Won’t fit.
Even today, I would not have chosen anything else,… other than maybe the Safari.
I have seen / read a little about that Series Rosso. Very nice — only 200 worldwide! Are you going to write up a review for a guest blog here? hint hint.
🙂 Hey,…. I just got my first smart phone and still figuring that bugger out. I am getting there though. Maybe?,… someday I will. I do enjoy writing,… just ain’t too tech savvy. It is a Motto G7 Power and after Walmart screwing up the order,… and later much frustration,… I got Verizon pre-pay, 6G data (promotion was +3G over the normal 3),… all for 35/mo..
At least I should be able to take some quality pics. I want to post some of my 100 yard wooded range. (35 clear/65 wooded).
On the ART barrels,… they do not offer them with .177 and .22. What they have now is better. On the .25 and .30,…. the new barrel is better.
Auto pay,…. not Pre-pay,… for any eyebrows that I may have raised,……. Re-up is automatic. Bill/statement is E-mail only.
Correction,… again,…. 🙁
Ok,…. I think?,… it is pre-pay,… with the auto pay option which knocks off another $5. Like I said,…. new to all this ****! Hey,… this “ol’ cave man” might be thinkin’ that cookin’ with that “new fangled fire stuff” might be the way to go?,… maybe? They still make the rotary dial phones? What ever happened to party lines that had to be shared?
LOL! 🙂 Chris
Is the pay from a bank account or a credit card ?
We have had problems when it is from a credit card. When you get a new card because the old one expires, the attempted payment will bounce.
You will have to update them if you get a new card with a different expiration date.
CC. Thank you for the info.. I have had no such issues. The CC # stays the same, but the exp. date changes. So far, so good. I have not done this with Verizon,… so we shall see. I swear,…. the big companies are looking for any way to put the screws to you when are not looking for it!
New tech. is great,… until it is not,… or until you need some (real), timely, (live) customer (English speaking) support. What???? Has India recently moved to somewhere in the Mid-West when I was not paying attention????
;),………… Chris LOL!
Did you look at any of the FX rifles – like the Crown? Just wondering what specs or whatever it was that drew you to the Daystate.
I shoot left, so ambi was the biggest issue. The lever on the RW can swap. Plus, nothing compared in looks.
Some of us are in a SNOW Coma and have been making those early season days as long as possible! We even did some headlamp downhill last night.
As far as .25 or .30 caliber the question is pellets or bullets. Although the .25 has a few cast and some swaged bullets available the number of .30 caliber bullets available to buy outnumber the .25 caliber pellets! If you add all of the bullet molds to cast your own I’m certain it exceeds the .22 caliber pellets available to boot!
The .25 is okay for pesting with pellets but the .30 is the hunter and long range King in pellets and bullets.
Do remember to check your hunting regulations before you decide on an Airgun caliber for hunting.
Going out for another SNOW induced COMA!
Ha! “Snow coma”! I take it you are in mountainous country.
Good info on the pellets vs bullets thing. I hadn’t thought much about that. I’m not likely to cast my own, mainly because of lack of time, but the flexibility to do that is appealing.
Now you’ve got me thinking I’ll need TWO new rifles! Ha!
I hope the slopes are good to you. Ski safe!
Here is a very interesting video by Rick Rehm (shooter1721) where he is testing a new .22 caliber 22 grain hollow point slug made by FX. He is shooting an FX MKII at about 930 fps. The results are amazing at 100, 200, and even out to 300 yards!
With diabolo shaped pellets, the .25 and .30 will definitely reach out much further than a .22. Rick Eutsler has videos shooting prairie dogs to to 100 yards with a .25 caliber Air Arms S500 XS Xtra. In the extreme bench rest competitions, the .30 caliber had been king at 100 yards.
Depending on what your needs are, I have a Gamo Urban .22 caliber which shoots at about 24 FPE and I have taken racoons and woodchucks at 25 yards with a single head shot. Most of my shooting is at 30 yards, or less, so the Urban does everything I need it to do at a very reasonable cost.
I started to watch that one the other night, but fell asleep. I’ll get to it again in the next few days. He’s a pretty good shot.
I do have a PCP in .22. I was just thinking of getting something to “reach out a little” — that’s why I started the .25 / .30 discussion.
Glad to hear you are enjoying your PCP. Ready to sell me that Tom-tuned Diana yet?
Today, 12/9/19, I posted a link to a video review of the new FX Hybrid slugs in .22 caliber by Matt Dubber. It’s about 20 minutes longs but is very good. These could possibly give you the longer range capability you desire. Oh, why don’t I just post it here! Duh!
(off topic),… in the past, you have posted your e-mail and offered help with computers. If you would be so kind,…. please post it again.
In short, Yahoo seems to be going the way of the Dodo bird. That is all I have ever used and seems to be the only thing that works with this blog with regards to comments. I can go Google and since I just got my first smart phone,… I have a G-mail address,… which,.. for the time being,.. seems linked to my Yahoo e-mail acct..
I will add,… my internet service is moving at snail speed and it may be the weekend before I get back to you.
Thank you,…. Chris
I would be more than happy to help you with any computer issues you may have.
My email address is: firstname.lastname@example.org
I have used Charter Spectrum as an Internet provider for several years and also have a Spectrum email account. I also have Yahoo, Gmail, and Outlook accounts. Depending on the site requiring registration, I may use one other than my main Spectrum email. I have the Outlook account setup to forward email to my Spectrum account.
I have used Yahoo as my home page for several years. I chose it because it was one of the few that allowed me to create my own content on the page. So far, it has worked quite well. But none of these options should have any effect on your ability to use the blog, or RSS comments. I use Firefox as my browser with the RSSPreview extension to view comments and that is working great.
You can check your Internet speed by going to https://www.speedtest.net/. For comparison, mine is 112 Mbps. It only takes about 8 Mbps to stream video smoothly. Looking forward to helping you.
Thanks. I sent you a response this am.
I’m familiar with oiling the felt wiper on my multi-pump rifles. Does that get the ATF into the pump cup also, or do I need to add ATF somewhere else too?
I put it on the pump piston head, too. You can barely start to see that when the pump is all the way open.