by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The IZH 61 sidelever repeating air rifle.
This report covers:
- The joke
- Beeman peep
- The test
- Air Arms Falcons
- H&N Finale Match Light
- What was I doing wrong?
- Can I shoot bad on demand?
- Fatigue!
- Proof of the pudding.
- Stopped
- Summary
Today I mount a peep sight on the IZH-61 I have been testing and shoot it for accuracy. I had originally planned to mount a dot sight, and I did, but the results were a disaster! Let me remind you of what happened. This is what I said after trying the dot sight.
————————————
I mounted the UTG Micro Reflex dot sight on the IZH-61 and prepared to shoot it at 10 meters, rested. I had to remove the front sight so the dot had a clear view of the target. The rear sight was just adjusted as low as it will go and was out of the way.
Oh, oh!
BB has slipped a cog everyone! He hasn’t even read the title of his own report!
BB is fine
No, BB hasn’t slipped a cog. He spent 90 minutes with the IZH-61 this morning, trying to shoot groups with a dot sight and failed to do so. His failure is your benefit, because he has some interesting information to share.
Parallax!
The IZH-61 I’m testing only has an 11mm dovetail at the very rear of the receiver. When I mounted the UTG Micro Reflex dot sight there it had a huge problem with parallax. Remember my report on the Romeo5 dot sight earlier this week? Some of you asked me what the advantages were and I said less parallax was one. Well, the UTG sight has a holographic screen and, when it’s mounted close to your eye, there is a lot of parallax. In all my testing of that sight on other airguns I have mounted it about 12 inches or more from my eye and the parallax was not noticeable, but this time the sight was three inches away and it was. The best I could do with RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets was 5 in about two inches. I’m not showing that group because it isn’t helpful.
Well, I gushed all over that Romeo5 sight from Sig. Why didn’t I mount it on the 61? I tried but the Romeo5 only mounts to a Picatinny base. Well, doesn’t UTG make an adaptor for converting those to 11mm dovetails? Yes, they do. And would you believe it — that adaptor will not fit the base of a Romeo5? It fits but the place Sig has put the Picatinny key in the base of the Romeo5 has the adaptor sticking halfway out the back.
Peep sight
I have a great idea! I’ll mount a peep sight on the rifle and try again. Why didn’t one of you readers suggest that? 😉
————————————————
The joke
The joke was that several readers had suggested mounting a peep and wise old BB ignored them, because BB marches to the beat of a different drummer. Or maybe it’s someone playing a washboard.
Beeman peep
I mounted a Beeman peep sight, which we learned the other day is really a Williams sight by a different name. I was able to adjust the rear sporting sight down out of the way, so it didn’t have to be removed from the rifle. And I learned a very important lesson today — one that I preached to all of you several days ago, but I had to re-learn it myself today.
This peep goes on the rear of the receiver, and I made certain it was mounted tight.
When I first sat down at the bench and tried to shoot with the peep sight I found the pull of the stock was adjusted too long. I couldn’t get my eye close enough to the peephole. Fortunately the IZH-61 has an adjustable butt that takes care of that. I didn’t catch it while sighting in because that was done offhand, where a longer pull is no problem.
The pistol grip also makes pulling the trigger with precision a problem. The grip is so small that it’s hard to use the tip of my trigger finger. So I used the first joint, and even that was a stretch!
The test
I shot the rifle from the bench. Given the AR-style stock it is next to impossible to use the artillery hold with the 61, so I held it as loosely as I could. I rested my off hand on a sandbag and the rifle on my hand.
I shot 5-shot groups in this test until the last target. The 5-shot magazine sort of promotes that. I used the same magazine that I have used for all previous tests.
Air Arms Falcons
In previous tests Air Arms Falcons have worked well, so I thought I would try them again today. I used them to sight in and also for the first group.
The first shot from 12 feet hit the target low and to the left. I adjusted the rear sight up and to the right. The peep I am using is the more expensive one that has knurled knobs for the adjustments instead of just screws. It’s easier to adjust, which I appreciate. Think about that when ordering a peep for yourself.
By the third shot the pellet was hitting the target right at the aim point. I knew when I backed up to 10 meters the pellet would climb up the paper, so I stopped at this point and went back to 10 meters. This is where I discovered that the butt was too long.
Shots 4 and five went into the same hole from 10 meters, so I felt the rifle was sighted in. I adjusted a few clicks to the right and shot a 5-shot group of Falcons. It was HORRIBLE! Five Falcons went into 1.345-inches at 10 meters. Not only that — they dropped lower than where I had them sighted. I will tell you right now that this rifle is much more accurate than that. I hadn’t yet discovered what I was doing wrong.
Five Falcon pellets went into 1.345-inches at 10 meters. I am sure the IZH-61 is more accurate than this!
H&N Finale Match Light
Next I tried five H&N Finale Match Light target pellets. They did well in earlier tests. But this time they let me down — sort of. The one thing I learned while shooting this group was what I was possibly doing wrong. That turned out to be a good thing, but we are not quite there yet.
Five H&N Finale Match Light pellets went into this 1.679-inch group at 10 meters. Notice that the top four pellets are together in a much smaller 0.44-inch group. That stray lower pellet showed me what I was doing wrong.
What was I doing wrong?
The problem was simple to discover. I was not focusing on the front sight for every shot! I was focusing on it for some shots (like the top four in the last group) and on the target for others — like that stray hole at the bottom. Could it really be this simple? Heck, I am writing about peep sights and I know they work this way and even I (as great as I am) am having trouble staying focused! That gave me an idea for a little experiment.
Can I shoot bad at will?
If I was right about this I ought to be able to shoot a bad group by focusing on the wrong thing. I would take careful aim, but vary my focus between the front sight post and the target. If I am right, this should give me a poor group. I would shoot the best pellets I knew of, which for this rifle are RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets.
Five pellets went into a group that measures 1.172-inches between centers. It is the best group of the test thus far, but if I am right about the focus thing, I should be able to do better.
When I shifted between focusing on the front sight and the target, the IZH-61 put five RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets into a 1.172-inch group at 10 meters. It is the smallest group of the test, but much larger than groups shot with the sporting sights that came on the rifle.
Now, if I am right in my thinking, I can shoot the same pellet into a much smaller 5-shot group, just by focusing on the front sight for each shot. There is probably some bias in this sort of test, but I have a way of reducing it.
The next 5 shots went into a group that measures 0.465-inches between centers at 10 meters. That is close to two-thirds smaller than the last group!
Five R10 Match Pistol pellets went into 0.465-inches at 10 meters when I focused on the front sight post for every shot!
Fatigue!
Yes that group is much better, but oh, how tired I was from just those five shots! It was fatiguing to concentrate on that front sight so much. And that is why my first two groups are so large, I think. For some reason I find it very hard to concentrate on the front sight of this little rifle. That’s odd because with the Diana 27S last Friday I nailed the sights so well! But maybe the reason is in what I just said.
This “little” rifle is extremely short and the front sight is so close to my eye that it’s hard for me to see it clearly. It’s only about half as far away as a pistol sight when held at arm’s length.
Proof of the pudding.
Okay, I said I was going to prove that concentrating on the front sight is the answer. Now I will shoot a 10-shot group of R10s and concentrate on the sight for every one! I adjusted the sight 5 clicks to the right and proceeded to shoot the first clip, followed by a reload and then the second clip. That’s ten shots in all. I purposely did not look through the spotting scope while shooting this target, so I would not see anything that would break my concentration.
This time all 10 shots went into a group measuring 1.008-inches between centers. It looks better than the size indicates.
That’s 10 RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets in 1.008-inches at 10 meters.
Stopped
I ended the test at this point because all the concentration had worn me out. The IZH-61 is reasonably accurate, but for me it takes way too much effort! And I want to make one more point. The 61 is the repeater and was never as accurate as the model 60 single shot, simply because the pellets had to be fed through the clip. Too much happens to the pellets for them to remain true.
Summary
I have gone as far as I intend to with the IZH-61. I have taken it from a new-old-stock rifle that had no clips and didn’t work properly because of hardened oil to a functional repeater that never misses a beat. At least it has been given a fair test.
For my money the TR-5 Pro target rifle that Air Venturi is bringing in is a better deal than searching for one of these. The one I tested for you out-shot this rifle.
This series began with a lot of hearsay quotes that I have heard over the years. It now ends with a clear picture of just how well the little rifle performs.
Thank you for putting in the hard work in showing what this version of the 2 rifles is capable of.
Unless you have shot for score at 10 meters with iron sights, most shooters may not realize how much work it actually is.
You do have to FOCUS and concentrate on the front sight, not just see it.
Ian
45Bravo,
“Unless you have shot for score at 10 meters with iron sights, most shooters may not realize how much work it actually is.”
I’ll second that.
There are actually tests for ability to concentrate that coaches and Shooting Federations use to determine/predict a training candidate’s potential; before you ever get to touch rifle or pistol.
There is a drill that I have posted about a number of times to train your personal front sight concentration skill. You will need some kind of second timer and a pen. Take that ballpoint or other retractable pen and hold it a good visual distance (Readers on for those that use them) with both eyes open look at the very tip without looking away for thirty seconds!
How did you do?
If you looked away once, not bad…more than once;. start with 15 seconds or however long you can manage.
For most untrained shooters this 30 second drill is almost impossible to do three times in three minutes.
Practice, practice, and then really practice some more!
You will see results in all your shooting; not just with iron sights!
shootski
I think shooting with the right size aperture front sight is easier then using a scope being no wobble. when you get the white sliver around the black bull fire the rifle. I have shot with the FWB 300 one ragged hole at 35 yds with iron sites. I have one with a scope shoot one after the other both the same. once I explain how to aim the sights my GF was able to shoot tiny groups and my friend did it who hardly shoots any thing
Mildot52,
I agree may favorite too!
The secret is telling a shooter what the correct picture is like you did for your GF!
As I have gotten older the combination of the correct front insert and a quality adjustable rear sight iris along with various colored nonmagnifying lenses have been effective at keeping me on target. I wish I still had late teen to early 30’s eyes but for most of us that just isn’t in the cards. I have made it to 71 with corrective lenses but it is now time for the Opthomologist to get under the eyelids and do a cleanup and rebuild!
Shootski
Shootski,
On instruction,… a fellow from work is quite the studied marksman. Enter: Blowhard, know it all (man) and wife,.. also from work. Studied man said “come out and we will do some firearm pistol shooting”. Neither man nor wife really had an idea of what they were doing. After some short direction/instruction to both,… the wife proceeded to promptly stomp the husband in performance, multiple times. He got mad,.. real mad,.. and they promptly left.
I think women take instruction better in general. They will listen without the typical machismo complex.
In the end,… if ever there was a shooter that needed to get his butt stomped and humbled,… it was that husband. Last I saw of him,… he is still an egotistical blooming idiot.
Chris
Chris USA,
Both my daughter, son, and daughter-in-law outshoot me regularly and I’m simply thrilled with that. My wife does great at practical shooting. I’m very happy that’s the case especially when we go out, someone always has someone’s back!
I hope I never meet that sorry@$$ husband!
shootski
Shootski,
That is great! There was 3 other accomplished shooters that would gather with “studied shooter” on a regular basis at work. “husband” would show up, chime in and proceed to tell everyone in the group “what was what” on whatever the topic was at the moment.
They just nodded their heads and rolled their eyes when he was done imparting his wisdom. “studied shooter” had about all he could take. Thus the invite.
All 4 of the other shooter’s were very impressed with what we had in common with my air guns. I asked questions they never saw coming. I do not think I ever “converted” any of them, but I earned their respect. I listened and ask questions far more than I ever offered.
Chris
Shootski,
I will add,…. my biggest takeaway from my interactions was that none of the accomplished firearm shooters had (ever even considered) that everything they knew about firearms,.. could be scaled down and still be applied to air guns. None were aware of PCP’s or their capabilities. It was a learning experience for everyone involved.
Chris
ChrisUSA,
Since I frequently use commercial ranges when im back east to get to shoot to 100 i have many exchanges with powder powered rifle shooters. Having a foot in both camps makes it easier. I like to tell them it is exactly like shooting; just with a different power source ;^)
Only one real difference is my PCP helps cleans up the range air quality.
shootski
once they rebuild your lamps you will be good as new lol
Mildot52,
Fortunately I have spoken with my surgeon a number of times as well as a number of military shooters who have had work done by him. He will be doing my non-dominant eye first but all that is currently on hold since it’s elective not required. To be honest it irrationally scares me a bit; after so many decades of living by my vision!
shootski
Shootski,
That’s why surgery is not usually recommended until the patient is nearly blind. If the worst case scenario happens it is not much of a loss. Fortunately such occasions have become rare especially with the latest techniques. I know how scary it can be having had to accompany my father when he had his eyes done. Separately too three months apart.
Siraniko
B.B.
I love the way you can self diagnose what you and the gun are doing wrong. Have you ever been a shooting instructor? Aside from here. I wish you were in the adjacent stall next time I go to the range!
-Y
PS yes technology is great when it works, when it doesn’t it isn’t. Peeps or scopes for me.
Yogi,
I did help coach a youth marksmanship team for awhile, and I have coached many individual shooters.
My best memory is of coaching my father-in-law when I was serving in in Germany.
/blog/2008/04/converting-an-anti-gunner-and-teaching-a-person-to-shoot-10-meter-pistol/
B.B.
B.B.,
I have never owned an IZH 61, but I very much enjoy shooting my Air Venturi TR5, and mine isn’t even the Pro model with a peep sight. Then again, at 40-50 feet, it shreds pop can after pop can, so I never have shot it at a target.
Speaking of peep sights, I just now checked the big auction site to find that there are perhaps a dozen Baikal rear sights for the IZH 61 and 60, including peep sites that are supposedly made for the rifles and at least one open site by Baikal that is apparently an NOS one of the first design.
All of that suggests to me that the cult following for these air rifles persists. Well, the cult of the vintage Sheridan .20 pellets yet persists despite tests showing contemporary pellets are more accurate.
How much of that do you attribute to the lack-of-availability phenomenon?
Michael
Michael,
The lack of anything that has a good report is always a spur in everyone’s side. I think that’s one reason I try to test so many of these oddities.
B.B.
Michael,
The “cult” started with the IZH 60, long before the 61. At one time these are were “a dime a dozen”. After the import ban, the “cultists” went to ground. If you are lucky and get to a big airgun show early enough you may see one available. Often they are scooped up by fellow dealers before the doors open.
Cult members will swear they are extremely accurate. I personally have never seen one that was. I would like to have a steel receiver IZH 60. They have a cool factor out the roof and are fun to plink with. This past North Carolina Airgun Show I learned they make a PCP conversion kit for these. They also manufacture these as PCPs. Now, you talk about hen’s teeth.
B.B.,
You got me thinking with your observation that you were fatigued by concentrating so much on focusing on the front sight.
Focusing on the front sight promotes accuracy, and I understand your point was while you routinely focus on the front sight of whatever you are shooting, the close proximity of the front sight of this carbine is too close to your eyes for the best work. But I wonder about a possible conflict between the approach of concentrating on every shot to increase accuracy vs. the approach of “doing, not thinking about doing,” a la “Zen and the Art of Archery.”
I am a poor shot regardless, so I lack insight when it comes to that, but I would be very interested in hearing from the skilled shooters here to learn if they have tried a Zen approach in shooting.
Michael
Michael,
I have never read any of that “Zen” stuff, so I am a bit ignorant on the subject, however there are times when shooting that I mentally drop into “the zone”. These are the times when I can shoot for hours. When I am plinking I just seem to not be able to miss. If shooting targets, I produce incredible groups.
Most often this happens when I am shooting an air rifle or pistol that I have been giving my attention to for a period of time. My unconscious mind learns that airgun. I do not consciously think of shooting, I just do.
Yesterday evening I was shooting my FLZ some. It was cold and drizzly and I could not seem to get relaxed enough. I did not drop into “the zone”. I did not shoot for long.
We can have a distinct advantage over BB that although he is an extremely good shot, everyday he is shooting at least one different airgun, trying to give us his honest evaluation of it. We on the other hand can devote time to one so as to learn all it’s ways and train ourselves with it. This is one reason I try very hard to maintain my “modern” airgun “collection” small.
I”d be willing to bet he could out shoot most of us with his (beloved) Air Force Talon.
Michael,
The opposite of Zen (aquired wisdom[s]) is ignorance.
So being a student of shooting from a Master is Zen; trying to DIY is Plinking. I know that may seem harsh but you specifically asked: “…learn if they have tried a Zen approach in shooting.”
shootski
Shootski,
Ah! I first heard the aphorism the opposite of enlightenment is ignorance from Master Hsu Fan Yen, the Master of my Master, back in the 1980s in Chicago’s Chinatown. Quite right. And remember, ignorance and fear suppress the Buddha within us in favor of the ego.
You sound as though you might embrace a more Theravada approach (“I know that might seem harsh”), but I am often wrong. I seem to be more inclined to Mahayana thought. I find the belief that the mastery is within us appealing and logical. Perhaps wisdom is not to be “acquired” but rather discovered within us.
And nothing is wrong with plinking if you hit what you are plinking at. Once one is “one” with the process (see my replies to Chris below), all is plinking.
This might explain why so many expert archers are youths. They lack the experience! They lack the self-consciousness! They possess accuracy.
Michael
Michael,
I am conservative in many if not most things. My roots may go deep but my upper stories still know how to bend.
I did spend a number of years in Laos and did associate with many Buddhists who followed the old ways. One must find the one path which assures us secure footing.
shootski
Buddha? Wasn’t he a fat, lazy slob that sat around and run his mouth all the time somewhere over there in Asia? 😉
I am really impressed with everything that has come out of China, most especially lately.
By the way, I might be a fat, lazy slob, but there has never been a Buddha in me.
RR,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
I know what you are thinking of,…. but I do not see them here.
Chris
Chris,
“them” who? Are you referring to that Confusion feller? He was fat too, wasn’t he?
RidgeRunner,
Would you say that to a Shaolin Monk? They were Chan Buhhdists. Siddhartha (Buhhda) was from the area of what is now just south of Nepal. They were Mountain People!
shootski
Ridgrunner,
You are making a common westerner mistake for which we westerners are often ridiculed by the rest of the world. You are referring to Budai, a legendary, revered Chinese monk, always fat and smiling and laughing. Budai is not The Buddha. The Buddha is not presented in artwork as overweight.
To have The Buddha in you is to have wisdom. To not have The Buddha in you is to be ignorant. I have not found The Buddha in me, either, but that is not a good thing.
Michael
Michael,
Thank you for that clarification.
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for your thanks, :^)
I should add that there is wisdom in the representation of Budai, akin to Voltaire’s credo that each of us should tend to our own garden. The idea is much like that expressed in “The Serenity Prayer,” do what you can to make things better, but do not stress out over things you have no control over. “Don’t worry. Be happy,” as the Bobby McFerrin song goes.
Michael
Michael,
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
Pretty good advice all life long,.. for anyone.
Chris
Shootski,
Most of my life has been DIY. I have always learned by doing. My philosophy has always been if someone else can do it, so can I. All I need is the motivation.
I do not know if you are familiar with sport kiting. I then taught myself to fly a quad line kite to the point that others were recommending I compete.
I take my plinking very serious.
RidgeRunner,
“I take my plinking very serious.” I know you do.
I think we are in to semantics in our specific discussion. My thinking is directed to the new readers that come to B.B.’s blog looking for answers. They are frequently very much like Tom’s Father-in-law and really don’t come from a shooting background or family that shoots. There are the folks that we call Naturals in almost anything humans can do; they are the exceptions. I always wonder how much better they could be, and how much sooner, with a little formal mentoring by a High Master who is also a great educator/coach. The School of Hard Knocks teaches memorable lessons that if they don’t kill you are usually remembered all your life. I have learned by that method all too many life lessons. At the same time I learned to fly from some of the World’s finest Naval Aviators and I know it would have been REALLY Scarry trying to learn how to land on the Boat without those instructors. That first time to The Boat, the real thing, is done Solo.
But only after many hours and repetitions on FCLP’s (Field Carrier Landing Practice) with the instructor in the aircraft back seat and LSO on the runway edge. So I guess that is DIY?
How many folks taught you, or had a hand in getting the basics of shooting across to you R.R.?
Some BRAVE individual(s) usually needs to do something for the first time. Hopefully they share what they learned with those that follow. Don’t I remember something about RidgeRunner teaching the Grands!
shootski
Michael,
The very best I have done is when dead tired (I detest shooting when anything less than hyper alert),… hence stimulants,… which do not help matters. The second would be after “having a few”,… also not recommended. None the less, that is fact. Third would be after shooting a bunch to the point where things are no-brainer automatic. That eludes to what Shootski said,… and correct training.
Take your time setting up. Come prepared. Visualize what you will be doing. Have your chores done and anything else that may be pressing. Trying to beat incoming bad weather is not good. Take a break and think about how things have gone thus far. Regroup if needed. That is a few.
Nothing will beat long practice over a long period of time (days/months/years).
Then, if you are competing,…. that brings in a whole other set of factors regarding nerves and stress.
At any rate,… been there, done that (Zen),…. but it is sure not easy to attain in an on demand type basis.
Chris 🙂
Chris USA,
Just think of B.B. faced with deadlines to get the blog done. An then…something almost always doesn’t go to plan. Yes, I think it amazing that B.B. keeps us entertained so regularly…he must really love shooting and evaluating airguns.
Not to mention keeping the cats happy.
shootski
Shootski,
I like that! True happiness is to be found on keeping the cats happy.
Michael
Let MEIN! Let MEOUT!
Chris,
“Shooting a bunch to the point where things are no-brainer automatic,” along with “RidgeRunner’s, “shooting an air rifle or pistol that I have been giving my attention to for a period of time. My unconscious mind learns that airgun. I do not consciously think of shooting, I just do,” are reminiscent of legendary acting coach Uta Hagen’s, “Our work sets us free.” She meant that by excessively drilling something, such as endlessly rehearsing a character’s lines and stage blocking, it becomes second nature and unconsciously performed, just like actual conversation and actual movements. Doing so is applying a Zen approach.
Michael
Michael,
I am not so sure that it is the same. On one hand,… you can train an near idiot to be perfect with enough repetition. On the other hand,…. trained discipline with full mindfulness and practice,.. far exceeds. (I might be wrong),… but mindless repetition to the point of perfection is different from well practiced Zen.
Chris
Edit: Getting into trouble from using “big” words. Conscience vs Mindfulness 🙁 Thank God for a paper dictionary because “spell check” sure don’t throw up good options sometimes. 😉
Chris,
“A near idiot [can be trained] to be perfect with enough repetition” is exactly the point! :^) Ignorance is bliss. And developing an effortlessly repeated form EMPTIES the mind of the stress of trying. You have heard the archaic term “idiot savant? The idiot is expert because he is unburdened with mindfulness. Mindfulness/consciousness could be counterproductive. Do not think of how to park the car. Park the car. Do not look for your path. Your proper path is the one beneath your feet (Paraphrased from Joseph Campbell).
Michael
Michael,
Not bad! 😉 I like.
Chris
Michael,
We must agree to disagree on some things!
It is clear that if we were Buddhists, perhaps you are, we would be at opposed (not opposite) ends of the same!
shootski
Shootski,
Those who are at opposed ends of a line are, if the line is bent to a circle, standing next to each other. :^)
Michael
Ah, Grasshopper!
Brent,
Yes! I thougth Master Po was the best when I was a little kid. Those lessons he gave young grasshopper were founded in actual Eastern Philosopy. They were good life lessons, too.
“When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.”
Michael
B.B.,
Have you got any BSA Elite or BSA Storm pellets on hand? My IZH-61 gives really good results with them. H&N FTT is another pellet it really likes.
You should mount a Bugbuster 3-9×32AO scope to get the most from the accuracy of this great little air rifle.
Bob,
I may have some of those somewhere in my pellet cabinet. They would be way down at the bottom of some stack. I will keep an eye out for them. Thanks,
B.B.
Bob,
I do suspect that many of those who proclaim the accuracy of the 60/61 are using the right pellets and that those pellets might be of the era the model first came out.
Michael
Michael,
It could also be accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. I have read and heard many glowing reports concerning various airguns, only to find out the shooter is looking at one inch groups at fifteen yards and is thrilled with the performance.
RidgeRunner,
Is that Plinking? Of course it is! Plinking is a pleasurable endeavor and will continue to be that untill they see someone doing one holers with the same “exact” gun and accessories…especially the accessories…. Then the lucky ones find this blog and life is never ever the same!
shootski
B.B.,
Too bad we didn’t get the MP-61s of lore! I found that the barrel unscrews right out of the action for a good scrubbing with the bore paste, when you loosen the single retaining screw in the barrel support. The muzzle is choked. In theory (the place where everything works), if the gun is operating mechanically well, a consistent hold should produce accuracy, even with a jumpy rifle like this one. Mine is all in good shape as far as I can tell, but I can’t tame it either.
This is why I was wondering if the crown was goofy. How “goofy” does a muzzle crown have to be, before the flaw becomes the reason a rifle can’t group? If a crown looks correct can we say it is correct enough for target shooting? Sorry to be a bother about crowns. It’s a variable that I can’t change for the better. Thanks for trying to make the ’61 work out! I’m going to keep at it.
Will S.,
if it looks like it isn’t goofy then it probably isnt going to effect your groups more han a bunch of other factors.
you can check for a burr with a Q-Tip or a bright bore light. Do you have a quality Machinists square? if the crown looks square to your eyes with that square held to the outside of the barrel your probably okay. the only way to be certain is to be able to figure out if the crown is actually perpendicular to the bore; that takes some specialized tools. If your bore was just not perpendicular it would likely just not bore sight to POI. It would not really typically effect group size to the point we would notice.
Shootski
Thanks again Shootski,
I still have lots to learn in this hobby of ours.
The accuracy is a funny thing with this, it comes and goes. A telling thing was, as I set the MP-61 down and dashed off to perform an important function, I said without thinking, “This is interesting.” So the rifle must be just accurate enough to keep me going.
Will
Will S.,
I left out that if there is consistent poor grouping and you have shot many different pellets to no avail a check for (loose fasteners – ever one of them) is usually more productive then worrying about the crown with no visible damage or defect. But it sounds like you are willing to continue with this airgun so no rash cutting! For now since most of the recrowning advice online is rubbish.
shootski
this new version of a used to be fine rifle is junk. I got a 25 dollar underlever Chinese air gun I got at a tool sale that has a 40 lb trigger lol and shoots one hole groups at 12 yds
Mildot52,
I’ll bet it isn’t Zen that accomplishes that Pinwheel with a 40 lb trigger.
You need to drill some lightening holes in that trigger. Way to much Mass to move with just one finger, Lol!
shootski
He Buddhaed it.
RidgeRunner,
Lol!
shootski