by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- The test
- The first shot
- Sig BBs
- Discussion
- New CO2 cartridge
- Crosman Black Widow BBs
- What I’m up against
- The trigger
- Dust Devil BBs
- Summary
Today we look at the accuracy of the Sig P365 BB pistol. So far this gun has been performing as it should. I just hope it will stay on the paper at 5 meters. There are two reasons I say that. First, with guns that have a short barrel, ANY movement of the gun/barrel causes large movements of the shots downrange. Short-barreled handguns are just as accurate as handguns with long barrels — they are just harder to shoot accurately. And second, with a sight radius (distance between the font and rear sight) of just a few inches, ANY amount the sights are off will be exaggerated downrange.
The test
I shot from a UTG Monopod rest at 5 meters, the same as with any BB gun. I debated how best to hold the gun and decided on a two-hand hold with the bottom forward portion of the frame resting on the monopod rubber sling. Except for the first shot, all others were shot that way.
I shot 10-shot groups because the P365 is semiautomatic. That didn’t make it easy, just easi-ER.
The first shot
Given the shortness of the barrel I was really concerned about missing the BB trap altogether, so I loaded 11 BBs and fired the first shot from ten feet. I used a two-hand hold and my hands were resting on the foot-rail of my bed.
I held a 6 o’clock hold on the black bull and the BB hit the paper 1.7 inches below the center of the bull and 0.9-inches to the left. Given that I am human, I thought that was close enough. So I backed up to 5 meters and fired 10 more times.
Sig BBs
The first BBs I shot were the ones Sig provided with the pistol. I got an 11-shot group that measures 3.217-inches between centers. The center of the group is 2.4-inches below the center of the bull and 0.8-inches to the left of center. The first shot from 10 feet is inside the group, though not centered.
The P365 put 11 of the Sig BBs into 3.217-inches at 5 meters. I marked that first shot from 10 feet.
Discussion
Don’t think this is a bad group! I am dealing with both those issues I mentioned earlier — a short barrel and a short sight radius. Instead, I draw your attention to the group of 4 shots at the bottom, under the BB. This P365 pistol has ULTRA-CRISP sights, front and rear! When I do my very best this is what happens. The problem is, it is difficult to maintain that level of concentration. I actually watched that little hole grow, shot by shot.
What you are seeing in this target is 3 shots plus the first shot up high and then the final 7 shots on the bottom, when I settled down. What this really is, is a (lower) group that is very horizontal — once I got my act together.
New CO2 cartridge
I loaded 10 Crosman Black Widow BBs next. I selected them because, of all the premium steel BBs on the market right now, I am having the most consistent success with them. After the first 4 shots, though, I noticed the power was dropping off. The gun was running out of gas. Since I tested it in Part 3 and know that it runs out of gas very quickly at the end of the cartridge, I knew that the first group of SIG BBs was okay. But it was time to change the CO2 cartridge.
I also know that the first 3-4 shots from a new cartridge will have some liquid in them and will be much faster than the 45 shots that follow. Since this is an accuracy test, I blank-fired the gun 5 times with the fresh cartridge before loading 10 more Black Widow BBs.
Crosman Black Widow BBs
Because the Sig BBs hit low on the paper with a conventional 6 o’clock hold, I raised the front post above the top of the rear notch and still used a 6 o’clock hold that is the most accurate with this type of sight. If that sounds confusing, let me show you what it looks like.
This is the sight picture I used for the next 2 groups.
That looks like a difficult sight picture to maintain, so some really good pistol shooters used to have a gold wire inset across the front post to show them the same amount of elevation on every shot. Elmer Keith was famous for it. On some of his sights there were several wires.
Elmer Keith’s front sight was used for distance shooting.
What I’m up against
Now you understand, I hope. Not only do I have to maintain a 6 o’clock hold on the bullseye, I also have to hold the front sight above the top of the rear sight by the same amount each time.
This time with careful aiming I managed to put 10 Crosman Black Widow BBs into 1.96-inches. The group is fairly well centered on the bullseye. I gotta tell you, guys. This group is a combination of me trying real hard and the Black Widow BB being as good as it is.
Ten Crosman Black Widow BBs made this 1.96-inch group at 5 meters.
The P365 deserves credit, as well, for it functioned properly all the time. Again I remind you how difficult is is to shoot a short-barreled pistol with accuracy. Yet, I can shoot my Sig P365 9mm handgun with astonishing accuracy. Why?
The trigger
The secret behind the accuracy of my 9mm pistol is the trigger. The 9mm trigger is light and very predictable. The BB gun trigger is not that heavy, but I haven’t learned it yet. When I have to keep the bullseye on the tip of the front sight, both sides of the front sight equidistant from the sides of the rear notch, AND keep the front sight at the same height above the top of the rear sight every time, it gets difficult.
The P365 BB gun trigger pull is just a little too heavy, at 5 lbs. 12 oz. for me to do all this. The firearm trigger breaks at 5 lbs. 6 oz, but it’s a very crisp pull that can be anticipated. The BB gun trigger feels similar, just not as predictable — yet. I just shoot better with the firearm. I can’t explain it, other than to say the concentration on the sights needed to get the group up into the bullseye is probably what’s throwing me off.
Dust Devil BBs
Next I loaded and shot 10 of the new Dust Devil BBs. Yes — these are the Mark 2 Dust Devils, but since the box isn’t marked that way, I will just say these are the Dust Devils you get when you buy them today.
Ten Dust Devils went into 3.356-inches at 5 meters. It’s the largest group of the test. I held the gun with the same care as with the Black Widows, but I may have been tiring out.
Ten Air Venturi Dust Devils went into 3.356-inches at 5 meters.
Summary
The Sig P365 BB pistol is a remarkable feat of engineering. It is the smallest repeating BB pistol on the market with full blowback. The appearance is an homage to the P365 firearm that is undoubtedly one of the most successful concealed carry arms even built.
If you want realism, this is it! If you want to learn how to use your pistol’s sights, there aren’t many better trainers than this. If feral pop cans have invaded your yard, this’ll get ’em! Just remember — you have to do your part, too.
Good morning, everybody.
B.B.
There is one of the buggas hanging in a tree at 25 yards right now.
RR
Did ya get it.
Several times.
RR
🙂
Shootski,
I tried singing your ditty. It just didn’t work for me.
RidgeRunner,
The Country & Western World will just need to do without my meager talents as a musical arranger ;^)
shootski
The question is do they have any talent?
Kenholmz,
Let us just say that our sponsors are probably saving some money by going with WordPress. If it is gremlins, they must be running WordPress.
Mildot52,
I do not know what they were thinking or maybe drinking back then. Quite a few of the old guns did not have windage adjustments to the sights.
BB,
Looks like a good trainer for the real thing to stay fresh/proficient.
Chris
Chris,
Really. If you can thin out the feral soda cans with it, you will likely be able to use the “real” one quite proficiently.
RidgeRunner,
Try kicking the feral soda cans and hitting them before they stop moving. Twice is good, of course more is always better!
shootski
Shootski
That is not how to plink.
You really do need a accurate gun to plink.
Aim at the bottom and top of the can when its moving. When you hit and keep it moving that’s when you know your a good plinker.
If your just plinking at the can to hit it you are not a official plinker. 😉
Gunfun1,
So i need to understand this official plinking!
So i shoot the lower part of the can and it jumps/moves and before it stops i need to hit it again in the other half? Have i got that right? I don’t want to spend hours perfecting this only to find out im doing it all wrong…but wait just a minute! This is supposed to be FUN! What’s with all the specific rules for taking out feral soda cans?
Are the rules the same in the areas that call them feral pop cans?
I’m going to get a bottle of RC CoCola and a Moon Pie and sit down to think on all this ;^)
shootski
Shootski
You got it all right. And trust me even with the “rules” it’s fun. 🙂
Gunfun1,
It is just beginning ;^ )
How’s the grandson?
be well!
shootski
Shootski
All well so far. How’s your wife. She took a fall a while back. Hope you all are doing good.
Gunfun1,
Thank you!
She is doing well. She had some great resident rehab for a week and then a number of outpatient OT/PT sessions before Walter Reed went to telemedicine. She is doing her exercises on her own with weekly sessions with her Therapist using video.
Hope you and yours stay well through this pandemic.
shootski
Shootski
Yes you too and thank you.
GF1,
There are bunches of air rifles that come with peep sights. My AirForce Edge did.
How many manufacturers want to drop a couple hundred into making a rear peep. Even a Williams will cost a lot more than those molded in glowy thingys do.
We will just have to put them on ourselves. I bought an old FWB rear peep to put on my grandson’s HW30S.
P.S. My Crosman 101 comes with a peep. It can be done rather inexpensively, but then they have to pay for engineering time. They have the glowy thingys already.
RR
Yep the Crosman Challenger does too. But I don’t think we will ever see peep sights on mass production air guns. They would rather bundle guns with junk scopes and charge us more money.
Usually people buying those guns that are bundled think they need that scope.
Now on the other hand PA does offer the combo packages which is a different story. With that you have the option to pick what scope you want. Hmm maybe PA should throw in the peep sight option. Heck maybe they do already on certain guns. If not they should. I think anyway.
Kevin,
I think Crosman still does the Quigley shoot at their big hoedown. They have just standardized it to where you use one of their Challengers in the shoot.
BB,
Sorry, too much coffee this morning. 😉
RR,
I am just about to have mine! 🙂
B.B.
“This is the sight picture I used for the next 2 groups.”
B.B.,
When I saw that, and the pic above it, I was like, “Whoa! How’s he gonna maintain that?”
Hence, I was really happy to see the Elmer Keith front sight pic; I, too, have used his methodology, though I used it on my .50 caliber Hawken. We shot match targets at 25, 50, and 100 yards; my rifle was sighted in dead-on at 50 yards, and needed no adjustment for 25 yards, but at 100 yards, it dropped a few inches; so I filed a small line across the brass front sight (after reading Elmer’s info) to ensure I held up the same amount of front sight each time. It worked great. =>
That’s pretty cool how the Elmer Keith trick worked out so well for this gun. And, as you noted, if someone were to buy this gun, and shoot it a LOT, they would develop a feel for the trigger, and the practical accuracy would go up in time. As an example, it was nearly impossible to get any accuracy with my HyScore 800 when I first got it; hundreds of rounds later, it is still much harder to shoot [well] than my Tempest because the trigger is not as predicable. Yet I can usually get 3 shots in a half inch on the 5-meter range (3, not 10 or even 5, because it takes too much concentration…and that’s in short supply with me these days. @_@). I think this BB pistol would work out much the same way.
Thanks B.B., and wishing a great day to all,
dave
Dave,
Even us older dogs can learn new tricks when we have to! 🙂
B.B.
Amen to that! =>
BB,
I just spent 45 minutes trying to get logged back in here. Multiple notes saying “too many failed log in attempts, you have 3 tries left” or “same, but then says to try again in 20 hours” Then, it says “try resetting your pass word.That may help.” 3 x I tried that and it did not work. On the 4th try, it did with some new, ridiculously long, complicated password. The CIA does not have passwords like that. You would think I was trying to log into some national security site or something. Then, that did not work. After a couple of tries, it did and now I am here. My password is saved with Firefox and fills in automatically normally and still is. Similar stuff yesterday and the day before.
Not sure what is going here, but if it keeps up and you do not see me posting for a few,… you will know why.
Chris
Chris,
I am forwarding your message to IT with an explanation of what has been happening. Since you are the only person reporting this, it may be on your end. I know that is a standard IT response, but it’s also what I have seen over the years that Edith has been gone.
B.B.
B.B.
I had something like this last night. I went to log in and got the message that I had one attempt left.
tt
BB
I emailed you the other day about it happening to me. You responded and told me to try to reset my cookies.
I did that and it did not work. I had to change my password then it did. I emailed you back saying that I changed my password and it worked.
But now since that day. When I try to reply the box pops up to type the reply then a screen will flash like when your setting up your username and such then it goes away and I can then type.
So what I have been doing now if that happens is I log off then back on. Then it seems to work right after that till the next day. Then I log off and back in and its fine again for that day. This has been going on for about 3 days now.
GF1,
I will add this comment to IT.
B.B.
BB
Thanks.
Hope we get some kind of answer or no more issues would be nice.
BB,
Thank you. I was just out and logged back in. On the sign in page, it said that I had one attempt left. I proceeded with the saved user name and (new 4-8-2020) password and it worked. We will what happens in the future/later today/tomorrow. Maybe they are trying to force password changes in order to thwart hacks? I don’t know.
Chris
BB,
I just tried 2 other sites that require sign in (DOC and GTA) in order to comment and it went smooth like usual with auto saved passwords. That might indicate less/no issue on my end?,… or not?,…… 😉 Who knows? It sure ain’t me. At any rate,… just some additional FYI.
Chris
Chris,
In did send IT your comment plus I told them you have been having problems for a couple days. They told me they are working on it, but I know PA is overwhelmed with business at this time so it might still be awhile.
I gave them your email address.
B.B.
BB,
Sounds good. If I was not able to (the option to) log in and post on a daily basis,…. I would be like some dirty faced, poor little kid,.. with his runny nose pressed against the hardware store window,.. drooling at the newly displayed Red Ryder. On the outside,… looking in. 🙁
This blog and the peeps here help me to hold onto what little bit of sanity I have left! 🙂
Chris
Chris,
IT checked the site and found no issues.
Are you still having sign-in problems?
B.B.
BB,
I have been busy (nice day) and not signed out. I will let you know in the AM if I have any issues,… IF I can get back in,……. 😉 I will stay signed in the rest of today unless I accidentally close out. Thanks for any and all efforts to relay issues! Them IT guys are like the wizard behind the curtain,………. they can say %#& and !2#))((,…. and the rest of “us” just go,………. “uhhhhhh,….ok,….. sounds good to me?????” You have to wonder,……
Chris
Chris
Right as long as we are not having anymore issues.
Hey Chris,
You might try doing this: Using Firefox, click on the three horizontal lines at the upper right corner and scroll down to “Options” and click on it. Now, on the left, go down to “Privacy and Security”. Scroll down to “Cookies and Site Data” and click on the “Clear Data” button. If you clear all cookies you may have to log back into some sites. Sometimes doing this can fix such issues as you are experiencing.
I don’t ever log out of the blog and just close Firefox. I am never asked to log back in unless I use Ccleaner to clear out cookies and cached web content. Then I will have to log back in again, but it’s good until I clear the cookies again. Maybe this will help in your situation. I will say that I have not experienced any issues with the blog lately.
Geo
Geo,
I never (rarely) had to log in either, in the past. It has been everyday for a couple of months now. The “too many failed attempts/try again in 20 hrs.” stuff is only the last few days.
(BB) I logged in fine with the new PA provided password (auto saved) this morning.
I use the C Cleaner and Malware byte about 1x per week. Norton daily when shutting down.
Notes made on what you suggest and will do sometime in the near future.
Thanks,… Chris
Chris,
Logged in just to see if there is a problem.
Mike
logged out and back in with no problem.
Mike
So, any word on that Gen 5 G17 Glock pellet pistol?
BB
When I shoot my open sight rifles at distances out at a hundred yards I hold the post up above the rear notch sight. It actually works pretty good. Once you shoot enough at different distances you learn your holds. Its in a way like using mildots on a scope. But your front post is the dot in a sense as where you position it above the rear notch.
GF1,
Yes. The key is knowing your gun.
B.B.
BB
Yep.
Gunfun1,
I am with you on that; below is a pic of the front sight on my Hawken (which obviously needs a good dusting). For shots at 50 yards, I put the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight; but for shots at 100 yards, I hold up just enough of the front sight so that the file notch I cut across the front sight (about 1/16″ below the top of the sight) is even with the top of the rear sight (note: my rear sight used to have a slight curvature to it; but I found it better to have it dead flat like a pistol sight…works much better!…for me). It works well, and is very repeatable. =>
Take care, stay safe, and good shooting to you,
dave
Dave
I like the idea of filing a notch on the front post. That way there is a reference from a hundred yards and in. I will have to do that.
And I like a square front post for sure over a rounded one. Both very good ideas.
I think if people would shoot open sights and trust them they just might be surprised by the results.
“I think if people would shoot open sights and trust them they just might be surprised by the results.”
Gunfun1,
I couldn’t agree with you more! I think many people blow off open sights without really giving them a good try (and yes, I know there are people with vision issues who need optical sights). In the black powder matches in which I shot, it was patched round balls only, and open sights only, allowed. Plus, you had to shoot standing, with no rest. Yet you (well not “you” in particular, of course =>) would be surprised by the accuracy some of the gents I shot with could maintain.
My rifle came with a semi buckhorn rear sight; but it was within the match rules to flatten the top of it, and I did so (see pic below). Then the flat top of the rear sight made it easy to take a little more metal off to hit point-of-aim, once I had found the accuracy load for the rifle. Lots of people want to overload a black powder weapon; but the sweet spot for accuracy turned out to be 70 grains of black powder under a patched round ball. That 70-grain load accounted for one deer and a great many hogs…accuracy is more important than horsepower…at least one you reach the level needed to do the job.
The nice thing about iron sights like this is, once they are filed down and drifted into place, the gun is always “sighted in.” I haven’t touched the sights since 1995, and it still shoots to the sights…as long as I use the same powder, the same round balls, and the exact same brand and thickness of patches…I even use the same caps. *shrugs* I like scopes, but irons have their place, too. =>
Loving those open sights,
dave
Dave
Sounds like it was some fun shooting. Consistancy always wins.
And yes open sights as well as dot sights and peeps.
Maybe some don’t give it enough of a go to see what they can do. My FWB 300 I modified is a very, very accurate gun. What is crazy it will hit 1-1/2″ spinners at distances out to 50 yards with a dot or peep or scope. Probably so with open sights even.
Now that’s something I would like to try. Find a rear open notch sight that I could mount to the dove tail scope mount on the 300. Bet it will still hit them spinners at 50 yards.
“Bet it will still hit them spinners at 50 yards.”
Yep; I’d not bet against the FWB 300 on that. =>
Dave
Yep.
B.B.,
This wasn’t designed as a target pistol by SIG in a long shot! Since this is your carry weapon could you do an unrested group with the most accurate bb? Shooting rested (braced) is great if you are fortunate to find concealment/cover but let your readers see what happens when you are moving and shooting to get off of the X. Those are great groups with with what I would use as a backup weapon if didn’t already have a SIG P380 for that purpose.
I have got a feeling you will show well with the firearm out to at least 21′ or a little more…all it takes!
shootski
B.B.,
In line with Shootski’s request, I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side of two targets, one shot with this BB pistol and one shot with your SIG firearm…10 or 20 feet, as long as it’s the same for both, and both guns shot fast and unrested, as in a defensive scenario. *shrugs* At least it would be a fun test for you. =>
Take care, stay safe, and keep up the good work,
dave
Dave,
I was going to ask that also. Then I realized B.B.’s range might not be open.
I know mine back here in the East is closed to the public. Utah is still allowing a degree of freedom…should have stayed out there!
shootski
Dave and Shootski,
That will take a while, but it is possible.
B.B.
Cool, B.B.! Whenever you get a chance; I think a lot of people would like to see that. =>
BB,
Me too!!! Video! Closer for the bb gun, at range for the real thing. Maybe?,….. some duck and roll? A somersault,.. and then come up blastin’? Hang upside down? How about Gangsta’ style,… you know,… like all sideways and cool stuff? Face paint and camo? 🙂 x10
Joking aside,… a bb gun and the real thing side by side would be cool,…. when ya’ can.
Chris
Chris
You just got way to much energy.
Mellow out ok. 😉
GF1,
“Too much energy”????? Read again,…. I would get to the “duck” part and then just lay there!!!!
I suppose BB taking on enemy fire, while blasting away,..would be a bit much? 😉
LOL!!!! 😉 Hey,…. I was just trying to get BB to get a little more “creative” in his videos. Rambo and da’ Arnold clip inserts,.. allowed.
Chris
Chris
Ok I guess.
GF1,
Ain’t as young I once was and don’t move/duck/roll/get back up as good as before.
Chris
Chris
Yeah I know. Any time I move/duck/roll and get back up nowdays is usually unintentional. The body just dont work that way anymore. Matter of fact I try my darndest to avoid it.
B.B.,
I tried to log in a number of times over the past few days and had the very same issues as other readers have posted above. It just happened again so i went through the drill and reset. Posted a reply or two and logged out. I logged in just for this post and it worked with NO GLITCH.
I hope IT fixed it permanently;!
shootski
BB.,
I’m so, so, Sorry!
I was clueless on what i was setting in motion….
Hey, hey, hey!
shootski