This report covers:
- Always something else
- Yewah 3B Dynamite
- Change it
- Make ‘em pumpers
- What do you want?
- Farco air shotgun
- Most buyers
- It’s okay
- Summary
Always something else
One thing has stood out about airgunners for me. No matter what you are talking about, they always seem to want something else — something different. What gave me the idea for this report are the discussions we’ve been having about the Dragonfly Mark 2 and the Crosman 362. Both are multi-pumpers and inevitably someone asked which one is better. Well, you tell me — which is better, a guitar riff by Jimi Hendrix or Yehudi Menuhin playing his Stradivarius? And don’t tell me you never heard of Yehudi Menuhin. He had a popular swing song written about him in the 1940s titled, “Who’s Yehudi?”.
Yewah 3B Dynamite
I remember many years ago when powerful modern precharged guns didn’t exist, the Yewah 3B Dynamite multi pump from Korea was considered a big deal. It was powerful, a large caliber (.25) and airgunners were in awe of it — mainly because few of them had ever seen one.
Change it
Then I read about a guy who had one and reported how very powerful it was, but, man, was it ever hard to pump! The 3B required 150 pump strokes of a front pump rod to fill initially, and then you could top it off after every shot with another 20 pumps or so. This fellow liked the power but hated all the work. So he machined a fill coupling and turned his 3B into a precharged airgun! He said the gun became lighter when the pump mechanism was removed, and it was no longer a chore to fill. That made him happy. But not everybody was happy.
Make ‘em pumpers
Several years later there was a huge cry to put a pump mechanism on a PCP. The proponents of that move said you would have all the accuracy of a precharged pneumatic, but no longer be tethered to a scuba tank. I was one of the ones who said that and was fortunate enough to purchase a used Daystate Sportsman Mark II, which was a modernized Titan multi pump. Five pump strokes took that .22 rifle up over 25 foot-pounds, and with as few as three pumps you still got over 15 foot-pounds.
That Sportsman was accurate, beautiful, had a great trigger and was all things people said they wanted, except for the pump mechanism. It was heavy, it unbalanced the rifle to the right side and the final two pump strokes required 77 pounds of effort, each. That rifle was a scarce one because it cost about the same as a PCP. If there had been more of them I’m sure someone would have removed the pump mechanism and converted it to a PCP. No doubt he then would have touted all of the advantages that such a conversion brought!
Today there is the FX Independence, which gives us the best of both worlds — precharged and multi-pump. It’s expensive, but it does exist. And the Seneca Aspen gives us the same capability at a fraction of the price. Okay, okay, people say. I know it can be done. But that’s not what I want.
What do you want?
I want a 5-pound rifle that’s a precharged pneumatic and a multi-pump, but it has to be slim and trim. And I want it to sell for less than $200. Okay — nothing unreasonable there!
Farco air shotgun
Remember the Farco air shotgun? It was .51 caliber, or 28 gauge. And it operated on CO2. Because it was made both in the Philippines and for the Philippines, the temperature/pressure fluctuation with CO2 was not considered a problem. But what did American airgunners want? They wanted to shoot a round ball from the gun. Farco importer, Davis Schwesinger, the owner of Air Rifle Specialists in New York, killed a wild pig in Florida with his Farco shooting such a ball.
Then I published the velocity of the ball from a Farco in The Airgun Letter. As I remember, it was around a .43 caliber lead ball that sat in a shotgun shot cup. It exited the muzzle at around 500 f.p.s. Golly gee but that was too slow. So guys started converting their Farcos to operate on high-pressure air. As long as they didn’t fill to more than 1,200 psi, the CO2 valve could still deal with the pressure and the better flow of the thinner high pressure air did increase the velocity. But it wasn’t enough. Someone converted his Farco to run on air at 3,000 psi. That is dangerous, because the Farco is made of soldered brass. In essence running it on 3,000 psi air turns the shotgun into a large pipe bomb!
You know, the funny thing about fringe experiments like this is that the guy doing them always says there is no problem. And there isn’t — until there is. There are a number of tragic You Tube videos with similar circumstances.
Most buyers
I write this blog with a mindset that my readers want pellet guns that are accurate, powerful and easy to shoot. Same for BB guns. That is how I test and evaluate them. I think that is what marketeers believe, as well. And I think that applies to 90 percent of the buyers. It’s that other ten percent that troubles me. They want something else. Give them a lever action and they complain that it isn’t a sidelever. Give them a sidelever and they want an underlever. And one guy even wanted an over lever! They do exist but they aren’t very common.
Everybody wants a repeater — except those that don’t. But give them a 12-shot rotary magazine and they want a 20-round belt. Give them a belt and it makes the trigger too hard to pull. They wonder why “they” can’t just use the power of the gas to advance the belt and load the next pellet? Yet when “they” did something very similar with the Crosman 600 pistol, the complaint was that it used too much gas. Thirty shots from a 12-gram CO2 cartridge was just not enough, I don’t care how powerful the gun was.
It’s okay
It’s okay to want what doesn’t exist. And seeing new stuff causes most people to start redesigning it in their mind. That’s a natural human trait. But to take something that works well and start redesigning it — that is the trait of a contrary (an American Indian belief of doing things backwards) or of an airgunner. Like the guys who want the TX200 Mark III to be made into a sidelever or Benjamin Marauders to be given internal pumps.
Summary
Nothing will change because of today’s report. I will go right on doing what I do and so will all of you. And I guess that is the nature of things. But every once in awhile I need to step off the train onto the platform and just consider for a moment where we are going.
B.B.,
“But every once in awhile I need to step off the train onto the platform and just consider for a moment where we are going.”
Sorry to be the one that has to inform you…the train you stepped off of has left the station! Next train isn’t until tomorrow.
Funny! But you need to do better in about six weeks!
shootski
“…my readers want pellet guns that are accurate, powerful and easy to shoot.”
B.B.,
I’ll buy that; the Dragonfly Mark 2, from all your reports, looks to be exactly what I expected, exactly what I want; and the Crosman 362 is shaping up the same way; I plan to get one, then shoot it in stock condition for some time; the only mod I plan is the felt to quiet it down. 🙂
Keep up the good work, I say.
Take care & God bless,
dave
BB,
Always interesting and informative.
Thank you.
BTW … I think the Yewah was desired by Koreans as a shotgun for phesant hunting. I am sure they would have liked to shoot powder burning shotguns.
~ken
ken,
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Michael
Michael,
How true.
~ken
BB,
And they are still converting the brass multi stroke pump airguns to PCPs until today. The good news is that the those in the know convert them with burst discs set at 1000-1200 psi and recommend them to be filled only to 700-800 psi.
Siraniko
“Accurate, Powerful, Easy to shoot” and Tomek’s “Denial To The Trash”
should be an epitome of the Blog.
Thanks B.B. and everyone for this.
Bill – hehehehe exactly my thoughts after reading this blog. 🙂 🙂
Most people doesn’t understand (they don’t want to know) why something is designed to do one specific task. It would have more advantages doing this which was the design purpose than rather doing something completely different. I’m talking good designed and working things.
It is like using a big hammer for cutting bread… and wonder why the hammer is not working, these stupid hammer designers and makers! 🙂
There always be someone who will take the HW30 and complains about the pellet drop at 70yards. I read sentences like this all the time. This is a good example as it is a very popular airgun. It has a new design stock, very nice in my opinion. Nooopeee, the custom made only would be good. It costs more then the new HW30 but the HW30 is wrong without it. You know… The question is: do we need to explain something to them at all?…
I think we can all agree the HW30 and all the other low-power HW guns are junk.
Just send them all to me and I will dispose of them for you free of charge.
For you on this side of the pond, send the HWs to RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. I will even pay the freight.
FM will take an HW30 willing to be adopted. 😉 The HW95 would love to share the fun with another member of the Holy Smoke family. By the way, “Denial To The Trash” is such a good motto/battle cry for these times…
FM,
I tell you what. Since there is already an HW30 living here, if one shows up, I will let you know.
HW95 huh? Do you happen to know the difference between the HW95 and the HW85? They have the same power, length, weight and such. I was wondering what the difference is.
There is also the new HW80 SL. Oooooooh, it’s purdy.
Appreciate the thought, RR. I believe AOA has some in stock, but keep FM in mind if one did show up. Of course he will gladly fork over any and all adoption fees. No idea what is the difference between an HW85 and a 95 – as you wonder, so does FM.
Tomek
As the HW30 (beautiful stainless look) came very lately to my life, is my beloved. Yes I fully agree that, even as it is, it shoots outstandingly with the open sights and makes me a better shooter. Little buzz maybe, so what. It always brings a smile on my face.
Accurate? Like laser.
Powerful? As much as needed.
Easy to shoot? All day long.
Denial to the trash
Guys 😀 exactly…
Bill – it is time to dismantle, clean it, make the check of the spring guide first (get the rigid fit to the spring) and take the Castrol Tribol heavy duty grease. There will be no buzz at all 🙂
I read lots of discussion recently where the heavy springer guys like “I don’t leave my house without my R1 rifle” bought the HW30 for their kids… and the kids are crying, because the R1 is too heavy for them 😀 hehehehe
“and the kids are crying, because the R1 is too heavy for them”
Too funny tomek!!
The HW30 is such a nice rifle to shoot! My only regret is that I have missed out by not purchasing one years ago.
Hank
Hank 🙂 🙂 I would never believe it without the check. From the specification it is just a small, normal springer (now it looks much better, but the original boring stock…) – many will never look at it and try it out.
I payed for the HW30 and book it end Nov last year, finally recieved it just recently. I have almost lost my hope for this one – but it was worth to wait and it is so easy to tune it to the top.
Update from today: the friend of mine try the HW30 on Saturday during his visit at my place, only 10m shooting in the basement. He bought one just today and ask me to tune it for him 🙂
BB,
You have a thankless, although fun job, along with the designers of today’s airguns.
As for the question, “which is better, a guitar riff by Jimi Hendrix or Yehudi Menuhin playing his Stradivarius?”, as a Texan, you should know that the answer is “Texas Flood” performed by Stevie Ray Vaughn, Live at the El Mocambo. Google it, if you doubt me.
Half
ZZ Top and “Blue Jean Blues”.
Music, like most things in life, is a matter of taste.
Are peanut butter and jelly sandwiches better than goose liver pate’ on a fresh baguette? Matter of taste.
Nonetheless, everyone should listen to Andre Segovia play a guitar.
Kevin,
You can throw that goose liver pate’ in the garbage’. Now as for Andre Segovia, I could dig it.
B.B.
Good rant!
-Y
ROTFWL!
This is exactly what I have been pointing out to folks here for some time. Many do not know what they want. I have to admit that when some “new and shiny” comes along I want to personally check it out. That is what is so great about this blog. I am able to come here and almost touch the “new and shiny” myself. BB puts these things through the same tests I would, and I do not have to throw away thousands of dollars learning this or that airgun is not what I want.
In some ways, I have to admire Yogi. He likes his sproingers. No amount of cajoling is going to move him. How many he has; I have no clue. I will wager he has some nice ones. If you were to look at my collection, you would swear I was a sproinger dude also.
I have a couple of PCPs. They are of the “modern” variety. I cannot afford a Girandoni.
I actually have a CO2 pistol that works now. I also have a couple that don’t.
I do prefer the way some of the old stuff is made. No, they are not that light. The two major materials they are made of is steel and walnut. That is probably why they are still around.
I do have hopes of a couple of “modern” airguns moving into RRHFWA. With today’s throw away world, there is a good chance what I desire will show up.
My whole thing here is, figure out what you want and then get it.
RidgeRunner – I’m also very thankful for this knowledge which I may just get reading blog like this! Imagine you would have to try so many things out, spend lots of money to get to the point it is not what you need. In a painful way.
I have been quite fortunate to read this blog, watch certain video bloggers and have friends who allow me to shoot their collection.
An example is the FX Dreamlite. BB tried out the .177. I shot a .25 that a friend had. I was not impressed. Needless to say, I do not own one. You can swap barrel liners around and tune them, but all of that costs a lot of money.
RidgeRunner,
And therein lies the problem. Only after going through so much chaff does one learn what one really wants. I can only dream about making 50 yard and beyond shots so why should I want a high powered airgun? Multiple fast follow up shots? Not needed. Do I really need a high power scope? Not really. An accurate, low powered airgun on any power plant will fit the bill for me. Preferably not CO2 though as those are getting hard to get a bulk refill done and powerlets are very expensive over here.
Siraniko
“Preferably not CO2 though as those are getting hard to get a bulk refill done and powerlets are very expensive over here.”
Siraniko,
What is the current trend in your country with airguns; is it a migration from CO2 towards PCPs? I know there were once many smaller shops there that made CO2 guns for in-country sale; but when I looked recently, I did not see airgun makers there that would make guns for export…but perhaps I was searching the wrong way. 🙂
Take care & God bless,
dave
thedavemyster,
The market has shifted towards production of PCPs mainly using either commercially available aluminum or carbon fiber tanks. Production is strictly for local consumption for now. Nobody to my knowledge is making anything for export in mind. The best example I’ve seen but not handled is the Alpha, which uses an external hammer, side swinging breech and a steel (?) tank to keep itself trim looking.
Siraniko
Siraniko, thank you for that information and for the pic of the Alpha; it’s a beautiful rifle. 🙂
Siraniko,
I’ve seen that side swinging breech years ago on other Philippine airguns.
BB
Get a good quality sproinger or a PCP with a low fill pressure and a hand pump. I have several nice sproingers, most of which are real antiques. They are not powerful, but they are damn accurate. I also have a Maximus which fills to 2000 PSI.
The Dragonfly would be good if you throw the magazine away. The 362 could be a fun little gun.
The thing to do is slow down. Do not buy the latest and greatest. Each time you are ready to buy an airgun, ask yourself “What am I going to do with this airgun?” Then you ask, “Do I already have an airgun that will do what this does?” You will be amazed at how much money you do not spend.
B.B.,
The hunt is not just with air guns. The hunt is often FOR air guns! That never ending story is for many of us half the fun. From Jimi and Yehudi to Freddie Mercury: “I want it all. I want it all. I want it all, and I want it NOW.” :^)
Michael
Michael,
Lord give me patience and I want it right now! Instant gratification isn’t fast enough! 😉
BB
LOL!
To have patience requires patience.
Hi everybody,
that’s the Internet for you (not just airgunners)…
Everybody who has googled something for 20 minutes is now an expert in that field, on par with people who have studied that field for 20 years.
In addition, there seems to be a rule that says “If you can comment on something, you *must* comment on it”.
If you play a good, but affordable violin, there will be a million comments saying how it is trash and you should get a Stradivarius. If you play a Stradivarius, there will be a million comments saying you are a sucker for buying into the Stradivarius hype. The next guy will say you should play the cello and the guy after that will say that you need a double bass if you want to get serious (let’s ignore the other millions of comments saying that you should be playing the saxophone… or rock or techno or traditional Aborigine music).
Add to that a generous helping of bad grammar, logical fallacies and insults.
This is pretty much a universal law, unless you are on a platform that is tightly moderated, has some kind of barrier to entry or is fairly exclusive like this one.
Stephan
Stephan,
Ouch! I resemble that!
You should have written today’s report! 😉
BB
Stephan – it is now a plague. It doesn’t matter which topic we are talking about.
Even more to that: you *must* comment and:
“I have no idea in the subject, so I will tell you how it is.”.
I quit all acounts on my old airgun forums. I can’t read it anymore and be active there. Sometimes I search for some information only. Try to find answer to one short defined question today… almost not possible.
Many with “I think I know’em all” attitude reacting crazy if you say something beyond their comprehension (which is usually not so difficult and may happen accidentally).
It is not difficult to cause strong cognitive dissonance nowadays.
The plus side of this is it usual makes for some good buys in the after market. I am always surprised by the people that fall into the trap of I really like this rifle/pistol but the internet its to heavy, to slow, is inaccurate at 500 yards in a 50mph wind and stop shooting it. I do a lot at 10 meters and own a small stable of SSPs and CO2 guns. No they aren’t competitive at the top levels but every one of them puts the pellets in the same hole over and over. I purchased these at a fraction of cost of a new top end 10 meter pcp and they will challenge me for a long time.
“…a small stable of SSPs and CO2 guns”
slevane,
I’d be curious to see some pics and descriptions, especially of the SSPs…
…as I may want to add one to my “want” list; but I can’t want what I don’t know about.
Thank you! 🙂
Take care,
dave
Dave,
I have an old FWB 100 SSP 10 meter pistol …it’s awesome!!!
Think that if you could get your hands on one of that series (100, 101, 102) you would love it! Cocking force is low (about 11 pounds on mine), accuracy is rated at .040 ctc @ 10 meters and the trigger is incredible. Officially it is a 10 meter pistol but I plink and hunt wasps with mine all the time and she never complains 🙂
Hank
Hank, I just looked those pistols up online; yes; no kidding; they are real beauties, for sure! 🙂
Are they available down there Dave?
I got mine about 20 years ago for $200. No idea what one is worth these days
Hank, they are scare as hens teeth, and I would expect to pay about 3 times what you paid. 🙂
The FWB 601-603 are great SSPs , great shooters, parts are available, easy to work. Hard to scope though. Anschutz 2002 is nice but parts are a problem. Pistols the FWB 10x series are hard to beat, again accurate and parts are available. I just sold a Pardini K58 and I am regretting it. I recently made the jump to C02 with a FWB c60 rifle that I am very happy with every pellet I have tried makes single hole groups it’s just picking the pellet that makes the smallest hole. I recently acquired a FWB Model 2 pistol, still dialing that one in. Also have a FEG GPM1 CO2 pistol it’s an accurate pistol but not as refined as the FWB/Pardini, parts are also a huge issue.
Thanks; you’ve got some great guns; happy shooting to you! 🙂
Guilty as charged! I enjoyed the walk down memory lane.
Oh, along that line; is the Aspen still going to come out with the butterfly pump? I remember it was promised a couple of years ago. They may have decided to make the Dragonfly instead.
David Enoch
David,
No se.
BB
Tom:
“No se”, eh? You’ve been in TX a long time! You don’t sound like MD anymore! LOL!
Motorman
Motorman,
Si, pero me gusta aqui.
BB
B.B.,
Glad to see all the company you have on the platform.
Is tomorrow’s train a B.B. SPECIAL?
shootski
BB, stick with what you know, you’re doing great. Jimi Hendrix? The Fabulous Thunderbirds, they’re from Texas, just like ZZ Top, but not everybody comes from there musicly, you have a larger audience than that. I think they make VPPs because the ‘Preppers’ demand it, and PPPs because the N. American Indians knew a good thing when they saw it. Keep up the good work,
1stblue
B.B.,
I NEED to throw some more coal on the fire!
“It spray-paints dissatisfaction on the overpass of his life.”
IS my all time favorite Godfather of Airguns® quote.
It was first seen in:
/blog/2013/03/how-chronographs-changed-airgunning-and-not-always-for-the-best/
All Ya All need to read her if’n you never not done so!
shootski
shootski,
Hey, that was a good one! 🙂
BB
Anyone own or has ever shot one of these? FM just for curiosity’s sake went hunting down various rabbit holes online today. Not made in Russia or China.
https://zbroia.ua/en/produktsiia-kompanii-zbroia/pnevmaticheskie-vintovki/zbroia-pnevmaticheskaia-vintovka-pcp-kozak-compact
FM:
There might be some supply chain problems with getting one these for at least a few months!
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Hope they’re producing effective hunting versions for local use. Their website lists a retail dealer in Georgia – the USA one 🙂 and another in Ohio.
B.B., you wrote: “Nothing will change because of today’s report. I will go right on doing what I do and so will all of you. And I guess that is the nature of things.”
Truer words were never spoken.
Dear bb, first i would like to thank you for all the wonderful information you constantly provide.Be it known that everytime my cousin and i dream up the latest airgun necessity e expect to notify you of our success as the go to expert(example; after 200 bucks in r aand d costs and several chopped up chinese pcp pumps our folding pcp pump for backpacking which screwed to a tree proved to work but because of swept area needed almost as many pumps to reach 2000 psi as a girandoni, consequently we didnt send you one. Having driven about 5 million miles in the last 46 years,i get a lot of time to dream up airguns that work but arent marketable. Further because using powder burners around here is problematic(illinois) airguns keep our eye in shape.and after 50 years of fooling around with cheap airguns(big money was spent on powder burners) have managed to outrage and titilate my machinest cousin on a regular basis, although we havent quite produced something we need to send you yet.Hope springs eternal and the road goes on forever. As far s the dragonfly one needs both thumbs to get the bolt to seat the pellet and close bolt, disassembly reveals gap between barrel and reciever face which grabs pellet everytime, further accuracy is all over because pellet is being shaved, hard to pump iron sights poor magazine fragile cheaply made typical chinese bluing and steel means lots of corrosion potential, seen the youtube fixes arggh sending back told we can fix maybe 2 or 3 months, so new lothar walther .760 barrel machined to fit is next projectBUT it aint worth it even if we can finally fix it, buy a aspen cheaper, but be ready to pull that pump apart if your gonna shoot it much,INdependance has same problem or so i hear, but seldom do reviews point out the limitations of these weapons.
pumpnshots,
May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face;
the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,
may God hold you in the palm of His hand.
BB
B.B. and READERSHIP,
RESOURCE: https://www.firearmsguide.com/
NOT just firearms but airguns too!
“Firearms Guide 12th Edition is the world largest research able firearms, air guns & ammunition reference guide, gun values guide and gun schematics, blueprints & manuals library. Published since 2009 for industry professionals and enthusiasts, with its 14 search criteria it enables fast, complex searches of 80,000 antique and modern guns and side by side comparisons of search results. Guns are cross-referenced with the ammunition database with ballistics. Guns and ammo are presented with prices, tech-specifications, features, gun values, ballistic and up to 12 high-resolution zoom able color pictures (up to 4000 x 1240) for precise firearms identification.
WOW never found this before.
shootski
Good find, Shootski. Might go for the flash drive version.
First day of spring tomorrow 🙂 I don’t know Yehudi Menuhin, But I’m sure my daughter does. She has her Master’s degree in Violin performance. She has played in Ukraine in better days.
Mike
Mike,
Ask her. I bet she knows him.
BB