by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- “What they oughta do…”
- “They” did!
- Sounds nice!
- How did it shoot?
This week reader Yogi asked me if I could write a blog about the Air Arms Pro Elite — a breakbarrel rifle that was built to the same quality level as a TX200 Mark III. I said I would look and see if I had enough information to write about them. I have owned two Pro Elites, a .177 and a .22, and I didn’t think much of either one. The build quality was excellent but they were hard to cock, recoiled harshly and were not that accurate, as I recall. However, thinking about that rifle opened another closet in my dusty memory, — one that related to the Seneca Aspen I started testing earlier this week. I’m referring to the Daystate Sportsman Mark II.
What you are about to read are words I wrote back in 2007.
From August 24, 2007.
“What they oughta do…”
How many times have I heard airgunners talk about their reservations with precharged guns? They like the way the guns shoot, if only there was some way around the scuba tank and hose. Other airgunners look at their Blue Streaks and wonder why someone has never thought to put a premium barrel on one and perhaps give it some more power. If they know of the Sharp Ace, they wonder all the more. [The Sharp Ace is a more refined multi-pump with greater power and accuracy than the Benjamin Sheridan rifles.]
“Yeah,” they muse, “If only Daystate or Falcon would build a PCP and build a pump into it so you don’t need a scuba tank!”
Daystate’s Sportsman Mk II was a multi-pump that was built like a PCP. Shooters said they wanted it, but the sales didn’t agree.
Wonder no longer, my friends – the gun was built. The Daystate Sportsman Mark II was a multi-pump pneumatic that was built along the same lines as a PCP, only with a pump built in. The UK version reached 12 foot-pounds and required only two pumps. If it is pumped further, a relief valve opens to exhaust the excess air.
The U.S. version hit 25 foot-pounds and required five pump strokes. Of course, as with any multi-pump, you could always stop at fewer pumps and shoot with less power. On one pump, my .22 caliber rifle got about 6.5 foot-pounds with Crosman Premiers. Two pumps gave me 11.8 foot-pounds. Three took me up to 15.5 foot-pounds and four got 17.5 foot-pounds. Five pumps got 19.5 foot-pounds with Crosman Premiers. With a 29.6-grain Dae Sung pellet the rifle got 24.5 foot-pounds. The rifle was made in .22 caliber and there were plans to make it in .25 also, but I don’t know that any were made.
Wow, you say! I’d really like that! Sure you would, if only the pumps took the same effort as your Blue Streak, but they didn’t. Pump number three required about 67 pounds of effort. Pumps four and five took about 77 pounds of effort. Even pump number two took between 55 and 64 pounds of effort, so the 12 foot-pound gun was no delight, either. The eighth and final pump of a Blue Streak takes about 33 pounds of effort. I have watched several grown men fail to pump the Sportsman five times.
A great many more simply refused to do that much work. That was the problem with the rifle. If the pump-assist mechanism were incorporated into the Sportsman, then, yes, it could be successful. But as it was produced, even in a 12 foot-pound gun, it was simply too difficult to pump. The pump handle swung 105 degrees away from the side of the rifle and the pump effort didn’t start to build until the handle was about halfway back.
Pump lever swung 105 degrees open. It pivoted on a massive bearing.
How did it shoot?
It shot just like you imagine it would. It shot exactly like a PCP. The pump lever was on the right side, so it tried to rotate the rifle in that direction when you held it, but other than that there was little difference between the Sportsman and any .22 caliber PCP of the time (1997).
There was no noticeable recoil; the trigger was light and delightfully crisp and accuracy was minute of thumbnail at 40 yards – everything you would expect.
The photos show the same clean lines that Daystate was putting on their PCPs at that time. Fortunately, this rifle was made when they were lightening all their PCPs, because that pump mechanism added several pounds of weight. The unscoped rifle weighed 9.5 lbs.!
Before there was a Mark II there was a Mark I. Before that, the rifle existed under another name altogether. Daystate didn’t actually design it. They acquired the design from another source, and I just recently learned from Daystate of America (the late Rodney Boyce) that they didn’t actually build it in-house, either. They acquired it from an outside source and put their name on it.
I liked the rifle after getting used to it. After time passed, comparison with my PCPs that were so easy to just shoot caused me to part company.
For those who find themselves intrigued, these guns still show up at airgun shows. Asking prices are about $550, which is close to the new price in ’97. Every one of them you find will probably be in excellent condition – both because the gun is so beautiful that their owners will care for it, and because it is so hard to pump that nobody will ever wear one out!
End of the report.
That blog report was from 2007 — years before there was an FX Independence and much longer before the Seneca Aspen existed. But airgunners were still airgunners and they wanted the same things back then that they do today. You have to bear in mind that the Sportsman Mark II of 1997 was standing on the shoulders of an earlier multi-pump that existed before 1990.
We get a lot more of what we say we want in the Seneca Aspen. The pump force that was next to impossible in the Daystate is easy in the Aspen because a three-stage pump multiplies the force of the pump arm. I don’t yet know if the barrel is accurate, but I’m hoping it is. Why would anyone put all the effort into the design and not make one that is accurate?
Today’s message is — we are in the greatest era of airgun development that’s ever existed. Today’s airguns are answers to questions that were asked in times past, which means tomorrow’s guns will be built to address the things we are talking about today. What will they be?
96 thoughts on “Daystate Sportsman Mark II”
I hope this means Monday is an Aspen post.
With modern CAD tools I wonder what could have been? And if the Aspen takes off it will get the others working on the concept.
With the right geometry 4-5 easy strokes to maintain 30fpe in .22 or a bit more in .25 should be a doable package.
This report brings back memories…
I never owned one, but have shot one, and took the challenge of trying to pump it up to max.
(That didn’t end well for my pride.)
EDW, unfortunately for you, unless B.B. steps outside of his established schedule, Monday’s blog will be another vintage report.
They are an absolutely beautiful gun, and Daystate quality, fit and finish.
You have to be built like Arnold Schwarznegger or Lou Ferrigino to make full use of its capabilities.
Oh, FYI, Lou is an airgunner too.
I owned a Daystate Sportsman MK II. As I remember all MK II’s were special order. Mine had a match trigger, grade IV stock, Match grade barrel and the ldc as checked options on the order card that came with the gun when I bought it used. Incredible piece of craftsmanship. I think Bowkett had a hand in this if I remember correctly.
Awkward cocking that reminded me of the Walther LGR. Past 3 strokes was effort imho since I’m not a msp kinda guy. My biggest objection to the gun and the reason I sold it was that it was so side heavy because of the cocking mechanism. I had a similar complaint to the RWS/Diana 54. Shooting from a rest was ok but offhand was an unpleasant affair.
Looked for pictures of that stunning gun but couldn’t find them.
That is definitely one for the armchair engineers that keep saying build it and they will come. Definitely killed off by the poor sales. The Seneca Aspen may not look much and uses plastic instead of wood but the price is more wallet friendly. The pumping is easier (I suppose), lighter in weight and has the option to be filled by an external air source. I hope the accuracy is there to be seen and that it satisfies the market’s desire.
Yes — the Aspen does pump much easier than the Sportsman Mk II.
My understanding is that some Pro Elites had a poorly manufactured compression tube. This caused the piston to “loose it’s head”, causing all kind of problems. I do not know how common this problem was, but enough of a problem that it turned Air Arms off of break barrels forever…..
Thanks for thinking of me,
The Sportsman was I think based on the multi-pump version of the Titan Mohawk. When Titan stopped trading Daystate acquired the rights to the the design and remaining parts. I’ve not handled the Sportsman but I do own two examples of the single stroke version of the Mohawk, one tweaked by John Bowkett. Very nice triggers and great accuracy but a lot of effort to cock.
The breech and bolt and the pump handle pivot of the pictured gun differ from the Mohawk but the pump tube, linkage and pump handle match the Mohawk.
I also own two Titan JB1 rifles which preceded the Mohawk. Fantastic build and beautiful stocks.
Happy to take some pictures if anybody is interested.
Are you kidding?! Of course we want to see pictures! Lots of them! I bemoan that Webley never produced the Paradigm. I know it took a considerable effort to cock, but a “powerful” SSP intrigues me, especially if it is so well made.
Perhaps you can be persuaded to do a guest blog on these? I for one would very much like to learn more of these and I am certain others would even though it may burst some of the bubbles of a few of the armchair engineers, myself included.
Pics always a welcome treat!
I like the single stroke pneumatics and I’ve got a few I can post pics of-
I’ll try to post tonight or tomorrow morning. If there’s interest I can put some words together around them when I get time.
Anything and everything will be appreciated TimI!
I have the Blue Book and was able to see some info.,… but not much in the way of pics. You seem to have some rather rare/limited/unusual specimen’s. Most are U.K./Euro. Good quality as well. Looking forwards to anything that you can put together when you make time. Thanks for the efforts.
I’ll take some more andbetter pics later. Might post them off the board if I can’t shrink the sizes.
You could post a series of pictures individually. That way we can savor each one.
A very, very nice collection you have there. Thank you for sharing them with us.
Thanks for sharing pictures of your Daystate Sportsman collection with us. Daystate has always impressed me with the quality of workmanship, and materials. I think I’m in love with the carbine(3rd from top), however I would be proud to own any of them. The fact that pumping the gun gets extremely hard after the second or third pump wouldn’t bother me at this stage of my airgun shooting career. The longer I shoot, the more I seem to choose an HW30, or one of the three other Weihrauch pellet guns I have converted to 12fb. Since I’m restricted to a maximum of 35 meters in my back yard, I see no reason for shooting an uber powered airgun.
I almost bought a Diana Model 52 a few years ago, but I was also concerned with the lever throwing the balance off to one side. Perhaps my fears were unfounded if someone who loves to shoot side levers offers to weigh in on this subject.
And yes, I agree we are living in a golden age of airgun research, design, and price. What amazes me is the sheer number of new, and different models available. It’s a great time for us consumers. Especially those who would like to get into PCP’s without depleting their bank account.
I have a 48, and yes it does make the rifle right side heavy.
I found a way to hold it with my off hand to counter the balance problem . Works well.
How do you hold your RWS48 with your offhand to stabilize it? When I held my brother’s rifle it really had a serious cant effect.
Siraniko, I think you meant me.
Instead of attempting to let the 48 lay flat in my palm, I roll my palm up on the right side so the rifle would be trying to roll uphill against the right side heavy condition .
Do it right, and the rifle becomes neutral on left-right balance. I also find my 48 to like to be held a bit nose heavy . My other springers like to be rested at about the balance point.
Thanks I’ll give it a try when I can get hold of it.
Yes i was aware the concept is not untried, but it also is the logical progression of the multi pump pneumatic. So Daystate got it wrong and still produced it and its 2nd iteration. I don’t think the Nova Freedom / Seneca Aspen has any new……….
You know what i am not looking for an argument it is simple price and function are all that matter and what the Aspen delivers at the price and that is not just not being tethered to a tank or floor pump and having the ability to keep in optimum pressure range. Price matters and all i can hope is that it brings about more self contained PCP at similarly affordable prices.
On an off topic note i used Tune-in-a-tube for the first time on a couple of old GAMO rifles one my 177 big cat that action screws tight & locked had buzz & nasty torque at the end of shot cycle and on an old Shadow Supreme .22. I may have over done it on the Big Cat a little the .22 no noticeable power loss and they both got GRT3 years ago I have no idea how long it will last but they shoot right now perfect. If someone had claimed the end result would be so good i would not have believed it. Easily the best $15 i have ever spent.
I have raved about TIAT since I first used it a couple of years ago. It works great and is easy to use. It can be easy to overdo it when you first use it. I too have done such. You quickly learn to use it sparingly and see how it does. If you need more, it is easy to add later.
Well at some later date i will have the tools to open it up until that time it has plenty of power for squirrel or rabbit and the gain in shooting behavior has added range even with the lost power. I learned my lesson, but just to make sure in the future if i am applying to the blind side of a spring im using a sharpie and marking the plunger.
I am certain that over time as the lube gets well distributed inside you will likely see at least a slight increase in velocity. As far as going in, I would not unless really needed. It sounds like you really do not need to.
Yep not doubting that tune in a tube works. Just thought BB’s comment of lasting 15 years was kind of funny.
And yep remember the 46e. It was loaded up with goop when I got it and it was pretty smooth. But it acted like it had a bad piston seal. In other words a very wide for spread when chronying and the fps was low. Like around 490 fps. Basically there was goop inside the compression chamber.
So i took it apart and cleaned it up. Then greased it up generously and put it back together. Then it got a much tighter spread and a 100 more fps. And was more accurate. So I left it at that.
So did you goop it up heavy again or just add a little more? How about velocity. Did you chrony it before and after the lube? And here is what I was referring to with BB’s comment. So when do you think you need to add more? And what happens to make you think it needs more? Did the goop disappear?
I do not know what it was shooting before. If I recall correctly it was dry and buzzy, really a not very pleasant shooter. Right now it is shooting RWS Super H-Point at 692 FPS and has a real smooth shot cycle. I did not use much at all.
Did the accuracy get better?
Actually, a little because the shot cycle was smoother.
Oh and I responded here because there was no where to reply below.
Oh you are right i think the small loss of power is not a problem. It was one of my trap guns using lead free point blank however i have other options and i value the gun a whole lot more this way so calm more accurate as it had nasty torque that threw it off 35yds was the limit now i think it is more like a 45 or 50 as its limit and i have it where the safety is solid you can bounce the butt and the trigger Very lite close to my best trigger and that is in direct comparison to my Accu-trigger and a good T06 litterally made my worst acting gun one of my best now i need a better scope to take advantage of it as i always just used stock 3-9×40 it came with horrible sight picture but holds zero perfectly, so i stuck with that So no i wouldn’t change it not one bit.
That is my viewpoint of TIAT, as well. It is remarkable.
BB, RR and Mike
Me too on virtues of TIAT but what happens when you overdo it? I don’t want to find out the hard way.
The gun just slows down. Nothing bad happens.
Thanks for your instant response.
I should add that I don’t know how long TIAT lasts. Still doing the job after 1-2 years.
Yes. I expect it to last a minimum of 15 years, if not more. It’s a modern high-tech lube after all.
What happens to tiat after 15 years?
How would I know? It was a “for instance.” A figure of speech.
But what happens. It deteriorates? Then you add more?
But what makes a person come to the conclusion you need to add more?
Do you take the gun apart and see. Or just squirt some more in.
I guess vibration starts happening and maybe a more abrubt shot cycle. Accuracy goes away?
Wow if tune in a tube takes care of all of that it is good stuff. But 15 years? Bet the condition of the gun will play into the final results.
I do not know if you can remember what the shot cycle on the Diana 46E was like, but with just a little TIAT she turned into a smooth shooter. No buzz, no vibration, no twist, just thunk.
The Aspen seems to be doing well, here and elseware. That nice under lever/pump arm is key I think. Like the 880 arm. Weight will be the unfortunate downside on anything containing a 3 stage on board pump. I never did get side levers,.. except for maybe shooting in a prone position.
I still think that an adult sized 880 that could do the pump 5, shoot, pump 1, shoot,…. (5+1+1,…) would be a nice entry/seller. Like the Benjamin 310 does. Leftover air seems to be key. I mean really,…. how many other guns can you name that have been around as long as the 880 has? Why? In my opinion,.. looks, ergonomics and function.
Perhaps, if getting a valve to perform the same is too costly,.. incorporating a regulator would be a quick fix. Part of the pump cylinder would need converted to air storage,.. post reg. side.
Of course,.. better trigger (Maximus tune-able), barrel (Maximus), cocking (lever?), dovetail (1 piece, not split down the middle),… and oh yea,… repeater (M-rod style). 😉 “Armchair Engineer”,… guilty as charged! 🙂 LOL I’m done,… for now.
Good Day to one and all,….. Chris
Designing air guns again eh? LOL! I do that all the time 🙂 You do have good ideas.
I have been (idly) thinking about designing a side-lever breech for the Maximus. Figure that there might be a niche market for them – especially left-handed ones.
A thought about the Aspen – if it takes 40-60 pumps for around 17 shots that works out to about 3 pumps per shot. That’s not bad at all in comparison to many multi-pumps. As a fellow “Armchair Engineer” I would be looking into dropping a regulator into the Aspen to have a consistent, metered air-charge for the valve to deal with. I am guessing that there will be some serious changes in reservoir pressure (and POI) depending on how often and how much it was pumped – a regulator would sort that out.
Happy Friday eh!
While we are armchair improving the Aspen, I had an idea. If Hatsan were to market one of these, their approach would be to add a second air reservoir, probably in the but stock. It would at least triple the air capacity which would make for a longer flatter shot string between top offs. Without a regulator.
I was speaking more to the 5+1+1 characteristic of B.B.’s 310. But!,…. while we are improving the Aspen,…. if Hatsan were to make a version,…. it would have all the bells and whistles,…. and weigh 20 pounds! 😉 I like them and love their innovation but they always seem to end up on the heavy side of things.
Lot’s of niche markets to be sure. If it is China made,… adaptions are likely to soon follow if there is demand shown. At least from the left/right bolt stand point. A side lever breech might be a real big deal though. Adding a usually high end feature on something low end might have a real big draw.
It has been a few,… but the M-rod has a lug/screw on the bolt that must be moved 180 degrees? in order to swap the bolt right to left. One of the first things I did when I got it.
Good luck with the idea should you move forwards with it.
My project list is pretty full right now which is why I said that I was just toying with the idea. I expect that a side-lever for the Maximus would be a “start from scratch” thing requiring a new breech and innards.
Have a great weekend!
Well the guns not that heavy and looks more bulky than heavy 8lb i guess its all relative. the trigger is adjustable though i think from the diagram of it it could be tuned safely and effectively. With the high / low power setting and the hammer spring adjuster and it has the same type repeater action as an M-rod and a side lever as opposed to a classic bolt. I also don’t recall anywhere in the manufacturers specs that the onboard pump is a 3 stage pump. Look plenty of reviews exist for this rifle and i have yet to see BB’s review So im not going to rehash a bunch of articles and reviews. My personal belief is this is just the first in a new affordable class of self contained PCP rifles and once models with field serviceable pumps are being produced they can just eliminate fill probes tanks and compressor.
I would add some line about those things being relegated to the history books within a few years but that is just me having a little fun poking the bear.
I do not know if the Aspen is 3 stage for sure. If it is single or double stage,…. then why are all of the hand pumps 3 stage? My understanding is that 3 is easier. And,… a lot more force can be put on a hand pump with a T handle. So in my mind,… if anything is (not) going to be a 3 stage,… it would be a hand pump.
I am not even sure that the new automatic pumps are 3 stage. I assume so. Me and my ShoeBox (stage 2 and 3) and my California Air compressor (stage 1) are chugging along just fine.
Either way,… I find it all interesting.
I once shot a Field Target match where a gentleman had one of these.
As I recall, he pumped it 3 times for each shot, and he did very well…better than me. =>
Those were good times; thanks for bringing back the memories.
Blessings and a pleasant weekend to all,
That is one gorgeous air rifle.
I am impressed that with five pumps it is that powerful. Plus, it has its pump lever on the side, which means the scope doesn’t interfere with the left hand as one pumps.
I’ve shot one of the Burkett SSPs a couple of times. Would have to start eating Wheaties and renew my gym membership if I was to do it regularly.
If the Aspen is accurate, I don’t see a big deal with the shot count or the need for a regulator. It has a small air reservoir that is also a small diameter. I think a regulator is not an option. It needs to be pumped anyway, if it gets 10 good shots somewhere on the power curve I will be very happy with that. Just pump it each time you put in a new magazine. If I want more shots I would get a regulated PCP with a large reservoir.
I am waiting for the accuracy test, if it is accurate I will order one.
on PB gun forums where egomaniacal know it all braggarts all have rifles that get 1/4 groups with MY handloads all pine for gun companies to make a certain rifle like a semi auto 32-20 with a folding stock lol. they have absolutely no intention of ever buying their dream rifle so I guess it goes for some air gunners also . so they begged for a rifle daystate made it and……
hey BB love to see your opinion and test if possible on the American tactical Nova freedom rifle a PCP that can be pumped or filled with a tank. they claim 40 pumps for 17 shots at 900 FPS in .22. it is $399
oops I just saw that the Senaca IS the Nova freedom rifle renamed???
There seems to be a lot of questions about the shot count and power. I just watched a u tube video a little over 24 min long, A PCP Without The Need for Anything, and he really gets into just that with some great visual displays.
“Other airgunners look at their Blue Streaks and wonder why someone has never thought to put a premium barrel on one and perhaps give it some more power.”
This seems like a good time to provide an update on my Silver Streak, as I promised many months ago, B.B.! No–it doesn’t have a premium barrel on it, but I did send it to Tim McMurray of Mac1 Airgun Shop to have the small barrel / pump tube separation re-soldered (which I hadn’t noticed at the pawn shop) and as long as I was paying for shipping anyway, I gave Tim the okay to give it some more power with his full Steroid treatment and tune at the same time. Hopefully blog readers can zoom into the lower right photo of the attached montage and see Tim’s expert silver solder work. You have to look very close to even see it and the other side looks just as good. Look at the solder joint near the end of the forend / pump handle–just opposite of where the pumping hand is normally positioned and under where you’d normally find the rear sight pinched in place. The pressure of the “pincers” is what eventually causes the barrel separation problem so I asked Tim to install a Williams rear peep sight too. There is no touch up paint or anything hiding Tim’s fine craftsmanship; It stands on its own and the Silver Streak’s plating was undamaged and not blemished by the repair. I sure wouldn’t want to attempt the job!
The Steroid conversion is wonderful too. The attached 10-shot target was fired at the same velocity as a stock gun with 8 pumps but, just as Tim claims, it only takes 6 pumps with the Steroid. We live at 2200′ so the velocities are just a touch low. I calculated that it takes 15 pumps to produce the same valve pressure as 14 pumps so I included chrony data for 15 pumps maximum here. The pellets fired were JSBs and the gun will fully clear 13 pumps and nearly clear 14 pumps at our altitude. I shot the target before I even bothered to zero the gun–right from the box. Since then I’ve learned that Baracuda, Field Target Trophy, and Accu Pell pellets (made from the classic Crosman dome 20 cal. dies) all shoot about as well as the JSBs. Unlike my more modern Benjamin 392PA, which shoots only JSBs Heavy pellets this well, this late ’80s Silver Streak isn’t pellet picky at all. I need to find some of the heavy 20 cal. Eun Jins and see what it will do. Sadly, they don’t appear to be available in the U.S. nowadays.
I can’t get in real close to see the solder but it does look smooth. And nice velocity numbers and accuracy.
Oh and I like the peep sight on your gun. I still got the Williams/Gehman adjustable peep sight on my HW30s. A fun little gun set up that way.
Hi Gunfun1. I’m on MX-Linux and Firefox but you should be able to right click on the thumbnail image and then “save link as” to save the .jpg image and inspect it with a better viewer (or do something similar with other browsers). I tried it on this webpage and it worked. Alternatively, try left clicking on the thumbnail image and then right click >> “view image” to view the original image with the browser. Then you can zoom in (to some extent) with your browser. (+ zooms Firefox.) Other browsers should work similarly. If nothing works, I’ll post the photos to a photo sharing site somewhere.
It’s best to just save the actual file to your hard drive. It’s called “Steroid_SS.jpg” and it’s 1024×2167 pixels so you should be able to zoom in with a better viewer and see the solder pretty well. I spent the time to make a decently sized photo montage to share it so I don’t want my efforts to go to waste.
Here’s an image of just the solder.
I’m on my phone. But yep I can click on the image and save the link to files. The problem is I can blow the picture up only so big on my phone before it starts distorting the picture.
You would have to take the picture up closer for me to be able to blow it up and still have a sharp picture.
Maybe you can see the solder better in this photo, Gunfun1.
Yes much better.
Definitely some fine work there.
Oh yeah…I should have also mentioned that I shot that sub-quarter size 10-shot group at 25 yards with the Williams peep sight. The same size group with my pellet picky 392PA was with a scope (on a BE#1 mount).
The low mounted (0.6″ above bore center) WIlliams is the hot setup for eliminating tree squirrel pests. When we move into our old homestead last spring, they had infested the walls of the house. I blocked all their access points but they just kept trying to chew back in under the eaves and soffits! I shot 10 of them with the Steroid streak–all at 6 pumps over the course of a couple of weeks. (I kept the Streak pumped and ready at the door.) The low peep sight minimizes hold adjustments when shooting close-in up into the trees (typically at 3 to 5 yards, but also typically at 70 or more degrees UP). I also shot 2 of them at night with my Diana 34. It’s equipped with an illuminated reticle and for night work, a headlamp is the other accessory of choice. I had to make good use of its mil-dots for hold-under, due the high angle of the shots. Except at night, the peep is my preferred choice.
On further thought, my typical tree shots were more like 4 to 8 yards (the height of a 24′ extension latter on the high end).
Funny you mention that.
I took my squirrel dog out for his first time actually hunting this morning. Alot of training but first time with me having a gun in hand. And that was with my HW30s and the peep sight.
We actually did pretty good. Got 3 in about a hour and a half and he was running the squirrels around to my side of the tree every time. I was at about 15 yards away and shooting up on my shots. But I was surprised I could see with the peep sight as well I did. Worked out nice.
Great tip, GF1! I can see how a squirrel dog would be helpful to keep the “tree rats” from fleeing. I’ll often catch one on the lower roof, chewing under the eaves of our house, but the many trees adjacent to the house that leading to the woods provide an aerial escape path. If I could train my dog to pressure them from the other side of the escape path, I’d have a significant advantage!
When you get a good hunting dog it turns it into a very enjoyable but exciting exsperiance as well.
My dad had hunting dogs when I was a kid as well as the other farmers by our farm. Blue ticks for the bird hunting and Beagles for rabbits. It wasn’t till later on I got my first squirrel dog when I was in my early 30’s. Same type I have now. A Rat Terrier. The one I had for all that time died a few or so years back. He was 18 and hunted up to about his last 4 years. So I slowed up too when he didn’t want to go anymore. Then I got this one. Both dogs parents were squirrel dogs. So it was pretty easy to train him also. The problem has been other things have kept me occupied that we haven’t got out sooner. But I did get him out and was able to work with him.
What is cool about it all is when you take them out for the first time when the guns involved and they just automatically know what to do.
What this one does that the other didn’t do is he keeps jumping up in the air by the base of the tree and high and keeping the squirrel on the opposite side towards me. I’m right at 6′ and I can see him eye to eye when he jumps. The other dog I had would just run the base of the tree back and forth on the opposite side of the tree. I guess they got to put their own character into the situation. 🙂
Know exactly what you are talking about regarding hunting with dogs. I remember as a teenager going squirrel hunting with my dad. He had a friend who owned a couple of rat terriers that were good squirrel dogs. That was a lot of fun but I only did that once. We didn’t like eating squirrel nearly as well as rabbit.
I had lots of rabbit dogs while growing up. If your lucky you will have one great rabbit dog. I was one of the lucky ones. I had a blue tick beagle mix and he was what we called a cracker jack rabbit dog. No rabbit was ever able to fool him and he would always bring them back in a circle if they didn’t hole up. I had Spike for 18 years and was in my early twenties when I had to have him put down finally. What a great dog he was.
I had a couple other little dogs later but none came close to being as good as Spike. After I got married my wife was not into eating wild game and so my hunting days ended. I would not shoot anything that would not be eaten. It just was not the same anymore without Spike either. I haven’t shot any of my PB guns in years, even though I still have all of them in the gun cabinet. Those were good days hunting with my beagle, Spike. When I was young I hunted almost everyday during hunting season.
Pretty much the same for me.
And so far the Rat Terrier (Buddy) that I have now seems to know some new tricks my other didn’t know.
Now the problem is I got to do my part and keep him going out. The problem is I don’t have the energy he has. Not that I don’t have energy. But he is a whirlwind of energy. He don’t stop. I can take him out and he goes full on and is still ready for more when he comes in.
All I can say is I’m going to give him his fair share the best I can. And besides I do enjoy it. Brings me back to my younger years.
what velocity are you getting with different amount of pumps
Mildot52, Could you try saving the actual file, as I described to Gunfun1, above? Then you can zoom-in read the Chrony printout and see my JSB velocities at 6, 7, 8, 14, and 15 pumps. (Remember, I’m at 2200′ elevation so 15 pumps is about like 14, valve pressure-wise, at sea level.)
Please reply and let me know if it doesn’t work and I’ll type in the numbers or try a photo sharing site link.
Do other seller’s of pellets pack the pellets the same a Pyramid Air? (surrounding foam, tight box, cardboard in between). To date,….. I have only ordered pellets through P.A..
AGD does the same as PA from what I have seen anyway.
Others no. Not like PA or AGD.
And both AGD and PA have the buy 3 and get the 4th free. The others don’t. Well that I know of anyway.
I bought some JSB 18.13g pellets from Amazon. They arrived in a box that was about 4″x6″x3″ with no packing whatsoever. The tin was just loose in the box. Not good! I sent them a negative review of their packaging of airgun pellets and the need to protect them from damage. My guess is that the packer didn’t know the difference between a BB and a precision pellet. To my surprise, none of the JSBs were damaged.
I would say that JSB does a good job of protecting their pellets with foam padding in the bottom and top of their 500 count tins, I have only found a very few damaged pellets from JSB.
Quality pellets nicely packaged.
Some of the JSB 500 count tins only have the foam on the bottom. Can’t remember what ones now.
I have not seen them with only one pad, my experience with JSB’s 500 count in 15.89, 18.13, 14.35 all have 2 pads. I have one tin of 300 count 13.73 wadcutters that only has the pad on the top.
The .177 Cal. JSB 10.34 pellets only have the foam on top. Same for the .25 Cal. JSB 33.95’s.
And yep the 15.89 and 18.13 have two pieces of foam from what I have had anyway.
Now that would make me mad.
Definitely give Pyramyd Air a thumbs up on pellet packing.
Plus the buy 3 get one free. Does Amazon do that too? Don’t know I never ordered pellets from Amazon.
No, Amazon does not offer a 3 for 1 option. I usually buy the 250 count JSBs and the foam pad is on the top of the pellets. Using Amazon as a source is only feasible if a Prime account is used otherwise the shipping costs are excessive. I used my grand daughter’s Prime account which gives two day and free shipping. The last 250 count tin of JSB Exact Heavy 18.13g pellets cost me $9.65.
I figured they didn’t offer the buy 3 get 1 free.
Since we are talking about pellets here is something I found interesting. And I just noticed this.
The JSB pellets have a 1 year warrenty. Other brands don’t. Here’s a popular JSB pellet. Scroll down and you will see it.
And I wonder how that warrenty works with pellets.
I claim “Fake News”.
Let’s see if you can figure out why.
Click on about any item (maybe all) on the P.A. site and the 1 year warranty shows up at the top right. To me, that is a P.A. 1 year warranty,… not a JSB one. But, not sure how that would apply to pellets. If they are in good shape when I get them, I am happy.
Only a FEW JSB pages have the 1 yr warranty at the upper right . I take this as a mistake on the page by P.A. .
At the bottom of each page there is a warranty block . Clicking on it clearly shows AIRGUNS , NOT PELLETS.
If so another thing they need to fix on PA’s website.
Remember….we are not talking about the 30 day return policy . That is entirely different.
I think they start off with a standard “form” and fill it in . Probably failed to clean it up when they were done.
I believe your right. I looked through a bunch of pellets and it’s hit and miss about the warrenty.
No they don’t. Look here’s the Baracudas. And there is others that don’t have it.
I can post more pellet brands if you want.
No need. Sounds like a site error.
I wonder what they mean by and how they apply that limited warranty?
Right. That’s what I mean.
Bent pellets and they get replaced?
Or like Twotalon said. A misprint???
Read Twotalons reply above and my reply to him.
I believe he’s right.