Quackenbush .308: Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1


Quackenbush .308 is handsome even in this lowest-grade version.

Today’s report will be quite different from the norm. This is Part 2, which is normally where I test velocity. I did that, and you’ll see it in today’s report — but you’ll also see some targets, because I tested accuracy, too.

When I test a smallbore pellet gun, I know at the start how the gun should perform, more or less. Yes, there are some surprises; and yes, I do make some mistakes — but a lot of what happens can be predicted pretty accurately. But not a big bore!

With a big bore airgun, I’m almost starting from scratch. Sometimes, I will have tested something similar and can use that experience as a starting point, and there’s some of that in today’s report; but this .308 rifle is unlike any other big bore air rifle I’ve ever tested. There are more .308 lead bullet designs and bullet molds available than there are .177 pellet types on the market. Out of all that, I have to select some designs that make sense.

This is where my firearms experience comes in handy, and this is the reason I often run reports on firearms in this blog: learning the intricacies of this Quackenbush rifle is exactly like figuring out how a new black powder rifle operates. And I don’t mean some ultra-modern, bolt-action black powder rifle that uses replica powders in pellet form, either. I mean a real black powder rifle made by hand and has to be figured out as you go.

So, how do you start testing a gun when you don’t know much about it? Well, you start with what you do know and go from there.

I know that other Quackenbush Long Action Outlaw guns operate at pressures above 3,000 psi, so I’ll start with a higher fill pressure. I know that this rifle will be in the 200-250 foot-pound range with bullets it can stabilize, so I’ll select them first. I know that by reading what others have written about their .308 rifles.

I also know that Quackenbush rifles have to break in. They do get faster with use. So, I’ll look for that.

Furthermore, since this is a big bore air rifle operating at a very high level of performance, it’s going to use a lot of air. I know how much air the Korean guns like the .50-caliber Dragon Claw use, and I know that this rifle is going to use even more. So, even an 88 cubic-foot carbon fiber air tank is going to get drained in a hurry.

I cast bullets for many of my firearms, and I also happen to own a bullet mold for a nice spitzer (pointed) lead bullet that was designed for the M1 Carbine. It casts at around 130 grains, which is an ideal weight for this rifle, because the expected velocity (derived from the known power that has been published by other .308 owners) will be 850-950 f.p.s. on the first shot. I calculate this velocity range by taking the expected power (say 225 foot-pounds) and running it through the Pyramyd Air velocity calculator (use the second formula on the page to do this).

The issue here is bullet stability. These bullets are stabilized primarily by the spin imparted by the rifling in the gun. The longer a bullet becomes, the faster it must spin in order to stabilize. Since you cannot change the twist rate of the barrel, you have to drive the bullet faster to stabilize it. Sometimes, though, you’ll get away with shooting targets that aren’t too far away with a longer bullet. The bullet will be semi-stable for the first 40-50 yards or so. It all depends on the bullet’s length.


The bullets I shot are like the one at the center of this photo. At the right is that same bullet with the lubricant wiped off. At the left is a 170-grain lead bullet that’s normally too heavy for this rifle. However, for close work, it might work okay. That bullet normally takes a copper gas check, but it can be shot without one.

That velocity will give a fairly flat trajectory and stability to the 130-grain bullet as far as the rifle can be accurately shot — which is about 200 yards. But consider this: this bullet is just one of over 200 different lead bullets that are appropriate for this rifle! If you really want to experiment and push the envelope, that number grows to over 500! Nothing guarantees that this will be the one right bullet. It’s just the first one I tested.

Scope troubles
Before I went to the range, I mounted a scope on the rifle. I encountered problems right away because of how far the Weaver bases are set apart on the rifle’s action. They are so far apart that I cannot mount the leapers long eye relief scope I had planned to use, because the ring separation exceeds the scope’s tube length. This is where it gets dicey because of the scopes that were available; and the Weaver rings I had that were not committed to other tests and guns. I ended up with a set of high rings and an Osprey 2.5-10×40 scope that I don’t care for. More on that, later.

So, I get to the range and the day is pretty good. The wind is fairly calm, with just a few breezes I can wait out. Besides, I’m shooting a .308 130-grain bullet at 50 yards. The wind doesn’t affect it nearly as much as it would a pellet!

First fill
The gun’s first fill is a guess. I know my .458 Outlaw likes a 3,500 psi fill, so I go with 3,600 psi for this one. I’m looking for a couple things. First, how fast does the first shot go? Second, how fast do shots two through whatever go? That’s right — I don’t even know how many powerful shots I’m going to get from this rifle. If it were a 9mm Korean gun, that number would be 5-7. But a Quackenbush .308 is more powerful and uses a lot more air. My .458 gets two good shots per fill, so there’s a very good chance this one will, too.

Before I left the house, I oiled the striker (hammer) with high-tech gun oil. I oiled it again at the range. I know that all big bore guns need to break in to shoot their best. Then, I filled the rifle to 3,600 psi and started shooting:

Shot……..Vel.
…1……….857
…2……….816
…3……….777
…4……….730


The first few shots were over the chronograph. Then, I commenced shooting for accuracy at 50 yards. You can see how high the scope sits above the receiver.

Okay, those are the first four shots. If I’m looking for good groups at 50 yards with this bullet, only the first two shots look good. If I’m demonstrating the rifle to a bunch of Boy Scouts, I can probably continue shooting for another couple shots. Do you see what I’m doing? I’m calculating things based on what kind of shooting I expect to do.

And shot one generates 212.06 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. Shot two makes 192.26 foot-pounds.

I also noted that when I went to fill the reservoir again, the gun still had about 1,900 psi inside. Four shots used up 1,700 psi, or about 425 psi per shot. The Korean big bores use around 200 psi per shot, so that gives you a good idea of how they compare to a Quackenbush Long Action.

Next, I sighted-in the rifle. Because the Quackenbush Long Action does not allow the bolt to be removed easily at the range, I used a target paper that’s two feet by four feet. The point of aim is close to the center of the paper. That gives me a good chance of striking somewhere on the paper at 50 yards. If this were a smallbore airgun, I would have started at 10 feet, as I explain in my article about sighting in a scope; but you can’t do that with a gun this powerful unless you own a lot of private land. I’m on a club-run rifle range, and I have to obey their regulations. I’m hoping to get on paper without boresighting. I do own a boresight device, but it has only bore spuds that go up to .22 caliber, so it wouldn’t work in a .308.

I’m in luck, because the first shot hits the paper…about two feet below my aim point. Well, that isn’t as lucky as you might think. Remember the Osprey scope I mentioned earlier? Well, it has 1/8 MOA (minute of angle) adjustments. At 50 yards, every click will move the strike of the round about one-sixteenth of an inch! For two feet, I’ll have to move the elevation knob up 16 x 12 x two, which is 384 clicks! There probably aren’t that many clicks in this scope, plus I don’t know how far up it already is. I have a droop problem!

I’ll replace this scope and mounts for the next test, which means I’ll have to sight-in and do this all over again. But today is not lost. I can still continue to test the gun. I adjust the scope up so the round lands about 14 inches below the aim point, and that’s how I will test the gun today. It’s simple enough to staple two targets to the backer in line with one another, so I can aim at the top one and hit the lower one. Now, we can see how this rifle shoots with this bullet.

The only problem is — all I have are bullets that have been sized and lubricated. I know that Quackenbush big bores seem to do best with dry lead bullets, or at least that’s been my experience up until now, but I’ll use the bullets I have on hand. I will have to cast some more bullets and not lubricate them for the next test.

Accuracy
Shot one went about 14 inches below the point of aim, as mentioned already. Shot two dropped another several inches, but I compensated for it by using the tip of the bottom fat vertical duplex reticle line as a different aim point. So, I’m able to get a fair grouping of bullets, though it’s nothing I am satisfied with, yet. I’m able to shoot six bullets into a group measuring 1.6 inches by shooting just two shots per fill and using the two aim points. After shot two, the gun’s remaining pressure is about 2,700 psi, so the first two shots use about 900 psi — which works out to 450 psi per shot. Do you see how this stuff works?


Two bullets in the hole on the left, and you can see the rest. Three of them were first shots after a fill, and three were second shots. This group measures 1.6 inches between centers.

I then moved over to another set of targets and tried something different. I tried refilling after the first shot — so every shot would be going the same speed and I could use the same aim point. This time, four of the five shots grouped into 0.982 inches, but the fifth shot opened it to 1.767 inches. It looked like it was going to be better, but once again, no cigar.


There are three bullets in the large hole on the left. Shot four (top) opened the group to just under one inch, but the fifth shot opened the group to almost 1.75 inches.

After shooting at two different targets, I lubricated the striker again and chronographed the gun. This time, I tried to fill the reservoir higher than 3,600 psi, but my carbon fiber tank had already dropped to 3,600 psi. I had to stick with that as the highest fill pressure.

Shot……..Vel.
…1……….867
…2……….819
…3……….772
…4……….733

As you can see by comparing this second string to the first one, my rifle seems to be performing at the same level, more or less. That does not tell me whether 3,600 psi is the highest operating pressure or not, but it’s a good indication that the rifle either needs a lot more shots through it or it’s already broken in. I’ll have to get my carbon fiber tank refilled before I can conduct another test at a higher fill pressure.

And just for continuity, the first shot generated 217.04 foot-pounds. Shot two generated 193.67 foot-pounds.

Where to next?
If you’re as curious as I am, these results open up a lot of possibilities. For starters I want to test the gun at a higher fill pressure. I also want to shoot dry bullets, but I think I need to clean and dry the bore before I do. I can’t clean the lubricated bullets well enough to consider them dry, so I have to cast another batch.

I definitely have to mount a different scope in lower rings, and I have to be prepared to elevate the rear mount if the rifle turns out to be a drooper. All I know at this point is that I had the scope adjusted very high, which very well could have lead to the groups being as large as they were.

I have a feeling that this rifle will shoot groups smaller than one inch once I learn its secrets.

85 Responses to “Quackenbush .308: Part 2”

  • kenholmz Says:

    Hello all, I look forward to reading every word of B.B.’s blog today; in fact I want to go back to Part One as well. I look forward to reading all posts. I want to write some personal responses and I will also do that today.

    For now, I want to say that the surgery went well. I am going to take an antibiotic capsule in about 15 minutes, then take my self to the recliner where I will allow my still woozy self to take a well justified break. All in all, I am doing quite well (just waiting for the pain to begin).

    If you love airgunning…honk!
    Ken

    • Desertdweller Says:

      HONK!!

      Ken, I didn’t expect to hear from you so soon!

      Try to put the ‘puter down and get some sleep.

      I’m glad you got through the surgery OK.

      Les

      • Bob from Oz Says:

        I can HONK here as it is only 4.52PM.
        All of the best Ken!
        Cheers Bob

      • kenholmz Says:

        DesertDweller,

        I did put the computer down and I did sleep (most of the day). I want to do a little reading and jot down some short notes. Then it’s back to sleep some more.

        I was surprised when the physician elected to send me home. I think part of his assessment had to do with my wife being an R.N. She got to talk with him more than I have.

        Thanks for writing,
        Ken

    • Chuck Says:

      I was really going to chew you out for that using-a-funeral-arrangement-holder-for-a-rifle-rest which sounded like a defeatest statement and morbid, ta boot, but now I’m just relieved. So, what did you find out? Go to the light or go away?

      • kenholmz Says:

        Chuck, the symbolism never even occurred to me; I mean, I understood there is a connection with funerals but mostly I just considered that the tri-stand held flowers.
        As for light or heave, light was the way to go. I was just steadier using the stand. I wasn’t sure which way things would go. It was an experiment.

        For the moment, I am good. I do have things planned out, mostly by listening to others for a while. The timing of the surgery worked out nicely in some way. Last week I still had sick leave for twenty to days. I put in for two of them already and file my FLMA eligibility form (that was new to me). I expect the surgeon will make me wait a full three weeks before considering releasing me to work. I have some extra feeling for guys and girls who have really strenuously physical jobs and then go through this. Any way, at the end of three week we are off for another week due to spring break on campus. If there are no complications I will be back at work in four weeks and still have my vacation time in good shape.

        Thanks for not chewing me out.
        Ken

        • Chuck Says:

          ken,
          “Thanks for not chewing me out.”

          LOL, I’m sure you were worried. :-)

          Glad to hear you’re doing so well. You and TT now qualify for official Lurker status, should you choose. Just check in with us once in a while, you know, like you do with your parole officer. :-)
          -Chuck

      • kenholmz Says:

        Oops! That’s FMLA, but what do I know from these four letter acronyms.
        Ken

    • J-F Says:

      Glad to see you back so soon Ken. Take some rest.

      J-F

      • kenholmz Says:

        Roger, that, J-F.
        I am glad to be home already and I am resting a lot. I do want to start taking walks before long.

        Ken

    • DaveUK Says:

      PAaarp!
      Horns not too good on my little car Ken :)
      Well done mate and get well very soon.
      DaveUK

      • kenholmz Says:

        DaveUK, thanks. Yes it’s good to be home so soon. So far, I have no reason to object.

        Your post has reminded me that I have some videos I want to watch. Some Inspector Lewis, some things I can get from PBS. I don’t have BBS America but I do like the programing I get.

        Have you watched AirgunTv with Nigel Allen?

        Thanks,
        Ken

    • Beazer Says:

      Howdy KenHo,
      Tolja you’d be fine. Worryin’ is like sittin’ in a rockin’ chair, it gives ya sumpthin’ ta do but it don’t getcha nowhere. B.t.w. be on the lookout for the dancer TT & I sent ya. We pooled our resources but the girls we showed your pic to doubled their price. So we hadta settle for a real nice guy named Bob who said he’d dress up like a Dr. & has a few good moves. Get busy gettin’ better.
      Honk, honk!
      Beaz

      • kenholmz Says:

        Oh, Beaz, my throat hurts to much to laugh but I couldn’t help but chuckle.

        Ken

        • Beazer Says:

          Ken Ho,
          Laughter & a couple shots of Jack’ll cure whatever ails ya, if it don’t, ya aint sick!?! Glad you’re back, best part, TT, Chuck & I don’t hafta rumble over who getz your gunz! Get better, I’m pullin’ for ya.
          Beaz

          • kenholmz Says:

            Beazer,

            “Glad you’re back, best part, TT, Chuck & I don’t hafta rumble over who getz your gunz!”

            Whoa there, Beaz. I’m not dead yet.

            Thanks,
            Ken

        • twotalon Says:

          Ken

          Get some rest. It’s good for you right now.

          twotalon

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      HONK!

      Welcome back!

      B.B.

    • /Dave Says:

      Ken,

      HONK! Glad it went well! Get some rest! Heal up. Don’t try to overdo stuff or you’ll undo all of that good doctor’s work. But, don’t be lazy when you think the physical therapist is pushing you either, they’re supposed to push. As a matter of fact, I think most of them are a little bit sadist to do that job, but in a good way…

      /Dave

      • kenholmz Says:

        /Dave,

        Thank you. PT may be discussed on March 1st when I see the neurosurgeon. For now, I think rest is the order of the day.

        Ken

    • KidAgain Says:

      Ken,

      I’m honkin’, I’m honkin’! Good to hear from you this soon (sort of… You’re kind of pushin it), get some rest.

      ka

      • kenholmz Says:

        KidAgain,

        You are correct. It was good to come home and I do need to rest a few days. Then I want to get up and go for a walk, first at a near by hospital that has a mall area people using for walking. Actually, the hospital was started from the shell of an off price mall that never opened.

        Ken

    • pete zimmerman Says:

      HONK! Great news, Ken. Take it easy, tho’.

      pz

      • kenholmz Says:

        Pete,
        I think taking it easy is the order of the day. I see the surgeon on the first of March. I suppose I’ll take it easy until then and see what he says.

        Ken

        • pete zimmerman Says:

          He will tell you to continue taking it easy, but you’ll be at about 10 days past surgery then.

          • kenholmz Says:

            Pete,

            I know you are correct. I will ask the doc how I am to take it easy. There is not PT at this time so I don’t know what the plan is going forward. I feel the need for a road map with posted speed limits.

            Ken

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Ken,

      Woohoo! Honk! Honk!

      Glad the surgery went well. Who says prayer doesn’t work? :-)

      Edith

    • twotalon Says:

      Honk !!

      Been in and out of laser surgery already this morning. Hope you are doing well.

      twotalon

      • Edith Gaylord Says:

        TT,

        Can you see me now? ;-)

        Edith

        • twotalon Says:

          Edith…

          Yes, but things are very bright and a little foggy looking in my left eye right now.

          twotalon

          • Chuck Says:

            twotalon,
            I wish the best for you. Did the docs say whether bright and foggy was normal for a while? Dang! I hope that clears up for you.
            -Chuck

            • twotalon Says:

              Chuck…

              No problem. I had my right eye done most of a year ago. Clears up completely by morning.
              Basic problem is secondary cataracts. Original surgery replaced the natural lenses with plastic lenses a little over two yrs ago. Secondary cataracts can form after that. A couple minutes of zapping with a laser and they are gone.
              The Doc says that they should not come back again.

              twotalon

            • twotalon Says:

              Chuck…

              Think about this for a minute…
              The Doc usually does not do cataract surgery unless your eyes are bad enough that insurance will pay for it. Insurance uses the same specs that the DMV uses for issuing a new drivers liscense.

              I know what having eyes that bad is like. It’s suicidal to drive with both eyes that bad, and bad enough with just one eye that bad.

              twotalon

              • KidAgain Says:

                TT, If your eyesight gets half as sharp as your wit, you’re good to go! Best to you on that.

                ka

                • twotalon Says:

                  Looks like I have a bit of fog right now under the right lighting conditions. Maybe the sun will come out so I can check it under those conditions.

                  twotalon

      • kenholmz Says:

        Well, heck, twotalon. I hope you are doing well also.

        Ken

    • Matt61 Says:

      Honk. Glad you have bounced back and thanks for the Tom Paine links.

      Matt61

      • Frank B Says:

        HONK HONK HONK……..I’m so very glad to hear two of our AG friends have done well with surgery!!!
        May you both be up to snuff ahead of schedule! HONK!

  • Bob from Oz Says:

    G’day BB
    Can you get cantilever mounts with Weaver Bases? That long eye relief scope I mentioned previously works a treat on the FX with the cantilever BKL mounts.
    BTW did you know you put in an 11 hour day yesterday? Must be time for a pay rise!
    Cheers Bob

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Bob,

      I’ll look into cantilevered mounts, but whatever I install has to be lower.

      If it’s just the long eye relief scope you want to see reviewed, I can do that on another gun.

      About the time, they don’t want to pay me by the hour! Believe me. ;)

      B.B.

  • Fred PRoNJ Says:

    Here in barcelona for the week. All the traffic does is honk. Get well well quickly, ken.

    Fred dpronj

  • Mark Says:

    Hi B.B.
    Acetone or lacquer thinner does a great job cleaning off alox-type bullet lube. Leaves the bullets squeaky clean. A quick dunk in denatured alcohol would remove any trace of thinner (if one was that anal).

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Mark,

      I have both fluids but thought I should shoot the unlubed bullets unsized, also. These have been run through a sizer, as well. In black powder arms you often get the best accuracy from an oversized bullet, and I thought I’d try that here.

      B.B.

      • flobert Says:

        I find Coleman fuel handy for cleaning all kinds of gunkery, without being too hard on stuff and at $10 or less a gallon it’s cheaper than most solvents.

  • Robert from Arcade Says:

    I wonder if a Loverin style bullet with it’s long bearing surface( like the Lyman #311466, 150grs) would work well in your .308 DQ. I have this bullet mould and have used it in firearms but when loaded into the cases , most of the grooves are exposed and the alox lube would pick up dirt. In your pcp , with a dry lube ,or none, that wouldn’t be as much of a problem.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Robert,

      I like the idea of a 150-grain bullet, and I especially like the Loverin style for an airgun. The thin rings would reduce bore friction, I believe.

      Thanks for giving me the bullet number. I will look at it today.

      B.B.

  • KidAgain Says:

    BB,

    I LOVE THIS RIFLE! I missed the list this year for one, maybe next year. All this gun for under $1000! Doesn’t the Quackenbush rifle have a specified bullet? I thought Dennis makes these around the bullet (almost).

    ka

    • Frank B Says:

      KidAgain,if you would like to forego the LOOONG wait,I can certainly help you out.For those who don’t know,I’m a huge fan of Dennis’ work.I won’t put an overall number here of just how many I have hoarded……but I have 4! .308s.Being a fair man,I could be pursuaded to share the wealth.The work that BB is doing here is real familiar…..and right between fun & frustration.The reward is absolutely huge though.DAQs are very addictive….as is bigbore shooting.Kidagain,drop me an email and we can chat…….my adress starts with my user name no spaces,followed by “pc@aol.com”.All letters are lower case.I also have a lefty stocked .308 available.I will look for your email.

      • KidAgain Says:

        FrankB,

        I blew my $ on another centerfire when I wasn’t on Dennis’ list, Crap! I would love to free up some space in your safe, but have to wait a few months. I will save the info, maybe you’ll still have ‘em?

        Thanks again Frank

        ka

  • pete zimmerman Says:

    BB,

    What’s with the long-running feud between Quackenbush and Barnes? Lots of vitriol circulating on the Web; most unpleasant to see such a fight in this tiny community.

    pete

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Pete,

      Gary attacked Dennis both verbally and on his website for several years. Dennis let the attacks pass without a comment, but when Gary said something demeaning to Dennis at the Roanoke airgun show Dennis finally had enough. He started responding to all of the attacks from Gary and from Gary’s customers.

      What you see today is really just the remains of their feud. Gary has left the world of airguns, or has greatly reduced his participation, while Dennis remains active. Dennis leaves the material on his website because Gary had done the same for so many years.

      B.B.

      • pete zimmerman Says:

        It’s just so dam’ ugly and distracting. Wish they would drop it.

        pete

        • Frank B Says:

          Hey Pete! I know what you mean about the uglyness……knowing what I do about Dennis’s character,I can’t fault him for replying though.He is very passionate about his work.He is also motivated by excellence,rather than the usual …….profit.I really admire that in today’s world,uncorruptable character.Knowing that,I’m easily able to understand some of that ugliness you read.I blame it more on the small percent of folks out there who just can’t stand lack of conflict.I read every letter of his website at least 5 times before I ever achieved my personal dream of owning a DAQ! Dennis is the kind of guy that,even though his work is incredibly backlogged,has talked to me
          to help with my guns (bought second hand) and offered to repair them if sent to him.there was clearly NO profit motive involved.It gets no better than that IMHO.

  • Chuck Says:

    Edith,
    My wish list is rather long as I am wishing for many pellet brands. I find myself wishing I could sort the wishlist. I wish you could help me find a way to sort my wishlist. Or is that just wishful thinking?
    -Chuck

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Chuck,

      I’m not very skilled when it comes to the wish list. The only wish list I know how to use is the one on Amazon. However, I’ll ask others at Pyramyd Air who are more adept than I and see if they can help.

      Edith

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Chuck,

      I submitted your comment to Pyramyd Air, and here’s their response:

      How would he wish to sort his wishlist? Without knowing how he wishes to sort, we might be coming up with something that is not as wishful as customers wish it to be.
      :-)

      Edith

      • Chuck Says:

        Well, now I wish I had been more specific.

        I would like to sort on product name so that the brands are grouped together. I would also like a sort on price only. The price sort would help me budget items, and be able to approximate the $150 limit for free shipping.
        -Chuck

      • J-F Says:

        Sorry to be late on this, I’m with Chuck, I’d like to be able to organize my wish list, a simple dragging by hand where you can put things where you want. Let’s say you have a specific rifle, you could put accessories under that rifle, not a sub category just under until the next rifle or pistol.

        Instead of being like this:
        -DanWesson
        -Benjamin Marauder
        -Scope
        -DanWesson speed loader
        -Extra Marauder mags

        It would be nice if you could put things like this:
        -DanWesson
        -Xtra DanWesson speedloader
        -Benji Mrod
        -Xtra Mrod mags
        -Scope

        and you could then class your pellet per caliber or brand or wathever you like.

        J-F

  • Matt61 Says:

    Two shots per fill? This is a labor of love. I thought that bullet weight was the only factor in spin rate. Why is length also important? Friction?

    Okay, the foot in boiling water and the foot on the block of ice wouldn’t average for me. But in the case of springer recoil, the forward impulse seems to happen almost instantaneously, and this forward impulse surely must cancel the backward impulse. So, the only thing you experience moving backwards is the unmasked fraction of the backward impulse which must be extremely small. The recoil pad on my B30 feels good, but it doesn’t really seem necessary.

    CowBoyStar Dad, aha, the nerf gun is for 8 year olds. I was thinking that a requisite for the nerf gun is to have someone to charge into it, and I guess you’ve got one. As for Justin Bieber, I’ll say one thing for that guy. If Whitney Houston was so stressed about expectations from her fans that she self-destructed, I somehow can’t see the “Biebs” having that problem.

    Outdoorsmen–Kevin, Robert from Arcade, Mike and others–what’s your answer to the following situation? I was reading the other night about the Cold Steel Recon Tanto, an exotic looking knife that looks like I miniature samurai sword. One of the reviewers claimed that the knife had saved his life. While hiking by himself (at the age of 14), he stumbled on a den of two coyotes who both attacked him. Using the knife, he killed one, and scared the other off. So, what’s your weapon for sudden surprise encounters like this? I believe that while hiking in California, B.B. was surprised by a snake and emptied his holstered 1911 into it. That will definitely work. Elmer Keith said that he stepped on a snake before he saw it and with his Colt SAA, he fired at least one shot while jumping up and another on the way down. I guess a gun would be preferable to a knife although at close quarters with the coyotes, I don’t know if the difference would be huge. The main thing is to have the weapon instantly ready. Are the laws about walking around openly armed like this, even in the outdoors? There is also bear spray with a kind of chest rig, where you can just press the trigger without unholstering.

    Matt61

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Matt,

      A baseball and a short spear may weigh the same, but the short spear has to be spun faster to stabilize it in flight.

      This is why shooters need to pay attention to ballistics. Many airgunners think they can stuff anything in their guns and it should work. But with the right knowledge, a shooter will know how a bullet is going to perform just by knowing the caliber, twist rate, projectile length and velocity.

      Here is something to think about. The twist rate remains constant, but the rate of spin is changed when the velocity changes. So, drive a bullet faster and a given twist rate will spin it faster. That really blows some people’s minds!

      Regarding how the recoil forces unfold, you need to see a spring gun filmed by a high-speed camera. First it comes back, because of the push of the mainspring that is also acting on the piston, then the piston slams to a stop and the gun jumps forward. At no time do these two forces interact. Each has its separate window of time in which to play out. The backward movement is very slight. The forward movement can range from slight to very pronounced. It all depends on the weight of the piston and how long the piston takes to come to a complete stop.

      B.B.

    • Volvo Says:

      Matt61,

      We have a fair number of Coyotes around here, but they are very skittish. However place my vote on the handgun rather than a knife if perhaps one with rabies lost its mind and wanted to a attack a grown man. This is where shooting from the hip would come in and the noise alone would be beneficial.

      Not to mention you could keep a favorable distance between you and the zombie yote.
      Also it could well be that the reviewer of the knife had just watched “The Grey”…..

    • Robert from Arcade Says:

      Matt: There are a lot of laws about carrying firearms on state lands that vary from state to state, especially handguns. Personally, while hiking I always carry a stick of some sort. Nobody bothers you about a staff, even on park trails. My thumper is a standard hickory sledge handle with a common crutch tip, or a plain old hoe handle with a metal tip, with a lanyard on the other end. However, for serious encounters with pests and predators , I would really prefer my 20″ barrelled Remington mod 11 12 ga . It holds up the side of my night stand. The usual knife I carry is a Kershaw Leek in plain stainless steel. You don’t need to be like Rambo..

      • BG_Farmer Says:

        Rambo — that’s funny. Most coyotes and dogs just run away if you say boo, anyhow, and if you see a snake it is hard to get bitten unless you’re messing with it on purpose. Aside from a snake bite (that one I didn’t see), the most dangerous run in with wildlife I ever had was when I stepped out in my shorts one night to see what the howling and caterwauling was about (we had a very quiet barn cat at that time) expecting a visiting tomcat to run off, and a P’O’d coon ran at me from the shadows outside the porch light. I instinctively (not intelligently) lurched at him, which turned him back temporarily, then I grabbed a stick of some sort off the ground just in time for the second approach of the coon, complete with red eyes and rotten corpse smell (that’s what they remind me of), and just started whaling on him when he got close. He would come at me and I would whack him, and he would turn around and I’d whack him on the backside and drive him further back, over and over again several times, until it actually started to feel a little inhumane, but with bare legs and feet, I couldn’t see turning around to get inside (“strategic withdrawal”). The whole encounter probably didn’t last too long, but it was exciting. Never seen a coon that aggressive before or after. I soon started a trapping program that got 8 in two nights, and he must have been one of them. I like to think it was the one that was stuffed into the trap like a sausage in its casing, but I don’t think it was that big, just angry for some reason (we had a lot that year because the creek dried up)!

    • Mike Says:

      Whatever you use when surprised in the wild, the most important thing is to keep your wits about you. Some years ago, while deer hunting in thick sagebrush, a grouse stepped out from under a bush. The range was about six feet, and I drew my .22 revolver and fired six shots. This was legal in California under the regulations then. The grouse just stared at me with a worried look on it’s face, as if to say, “why are you making all of that noise?” Then it walked in a 360-degree circle and retreated back to the same bush it had appeared from. I looked and looked, but never had another sight of it. Worst case of “buck fever” I’ve ever had.

      For snakes, I’d carry a shovel, or a medium or large bore revolver with one shot shell, followed by hollow points. Auto pistols probably won’t cycle the shot shells. I would consider a knife for either coyotes or snakes only a last resort.

  • Volvo Says:

    I must admit, the rifle is a real looker, blessed with classic lines and a lack of silly random stampings. Kudos. (side bar – does Daystate really think that putting their name on the side of a stock is a plus? Is the company run by 10 years old that got a wood burner for Christmas?)

    Curious that the energy level does not even match a .22 WMR, and I am sure if you wanted to bother with the Taylor knock down theory it would still come up shy even with its larger diameter chunk of lead.

    I don’t remember what kind of numbers the Crosman Rogue delivered, but it would be interesting to compare and contrast it with the custom rifle.

    All in all if precision air rifles are a niche, then big bores are a novelty.
    However, just like with Sports Illustrated swim suit models, pretty sure I’ll never get one, but I don’t mind looking at the pictures.

    • Chuck Says:

      Volvo,
      Kinda makes you think Daystate doesn’t know their customers very well, doesn’t it? Don’t know if that’s true, just sayin…
      -Chuck

  • duskwight Says:

    B.B.

    Sorry if I missed that – but does the maker fit such rifles with pressure reduction valve or are there any aftermarket solutions for them? It’s nothing serious to produce, but could greatly simplify shooting by keeping the output pressure more or less constant.
    Well, as long as it’s not a plinker or a competition model – I believe it’s a purpose-made “hunter” – speed consistency is not a great deal, as first shot is most times the only one to do the job.

    Some news on my project – right now I am reworking upper receiver – it seems to be unreasonably complicated and too demanding to produce. Waiting for 2 sets of parts to be ready, it seems they are very close to completion. I believe cocking system will be first to be ready.

    duskwight

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      duskwight,

      You didn’t miss it — the Quackenbush doesn’t come with a pressure regulator. No big bores I know of have regulators because they go through their air so fast. It might be interesting to see if fitting one and adjusting the valve to be effective at a lower pressure would work in one of these big guns.

      Isn’t it interesting that until you see the actual parts how difficult it is to visualize your gun design? You are going through a process that very few airgunners ever get to experience. They think that is a builder can make one gun a certain way he ought to be able to make a thousand just like it.

      B.B.

      • duskwight Says:

        B.B.

        Oh yes, you’re right. 3D helps, but for a certain period. Sometimes you think the part is perfect and you cannot do anything more excellent than that. Alright, here comes bitter reality: final test is machinist/toolset/metal combo – and sometimes parts do not pass this complex test. Okay, mouse in hand, time to rework. And only then parts take their final shape.
        I guess biggest trouble is that a very few men made such rifle before me and I had no opportunity to touch or measure or diasssemble it. There are also many things I’d like to see and touch – some holder-adaptors, fixtures etc. I believe JW custom-made lots of them to help him in his job. Well, “The fewer men, the greater share of honour” (c).

        duskwight

  • Patrick Says:

    I don’t want to geek out here. But is it possible to make some homemade ballistics gel and see what this puppy can do against that?

    • Frank B Says:

      Patrick,this might help satisfy your desire to see the terminal energy……go to Youtube and search Mr.Hollowpoint bigbore.That should bring up a whole bunch of videos made by a very funny guy named Robert Vogel.He casts & tests bigbore airgun bullets……all different AG calibers,shot into huge ice blocks,gelatin,water jugs etc….Warning,the hunting videos are VERY graphic.ENJOY

      • Chuck Says:

        Frank,
        HOLY COW!!! I visited his site and he has a picture of a 400lb Elk he shot with a Quigley 72 12 gauge air rifle. Man what an exit wound!
        -Chuck

  • David H Says:

    BB

    Just curious, what is the pressure tank rated for on this big bore? Thanks in advance.

    David H

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      David,

      I believe Dennis rates it at 3,000 psi, but he has built it purposely over-engineered at 4 times burst pressure. That’s a scuba tank spec, and no other gunmaker except AirForce does the same.

      B.B.

  • Mike Says:

    I have one of the original style Cold Steel Tantos. It is very, very well made. As to firearms laws, they vary too much to comment. One needs to see what is legal where you live.
    I always………always…………..always carry both a firearm(s) and a knife when in the woods. You are on your own there so be prepared. If laws are tight, a staff is a great idea. What to carry as to type of firearm? Carry what you know how to use, is legal, and will do the job if needed.

    This is in today’s world. If things were to go south………legal wouldn’t be a concern.

    Mike

  • Chuck Says:

    Mike,
    What state do you live in that allows you to carry a sidearm in the woods? You alluded to multiple so I assume one is a rifle and one a pistol.

    I live in Illinois and it is almost illegal to carry a stick. Not as bad as where ProNJ lives, where it sounds like it is illegal to carry a banana in the woods.
    -Chuck

  • Matt in NC Says:

    That rifle looks like a Discovery on steroids! Man, that thing is beautiful, hate to fill it with a hand pump. Shoot twice, fill, shoot twice, fill, call it a day. When I go into the woods i carry my Chinese model 213, it’s a copy of the TT-33, but is chambered in 9mm, accurate, all steel, reliable and butt ugly, the perfect woods gun! The biggest thing you have to worry about around here is a coyote or stray dog so the 9 should be good enough for government work. As far as knives go I take the Rambo approach, KA-BAR Marine Raider Bowie, it’s a machete you can split wood with and then skin a squirrel, enough said.

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