by B.B. Pelletier
The Tech Force TF79 Competition rifle is a lot of value for a very low price.
Today is the day of redemption for the Tech Force 79 Competition Rifle. You may recall that in Part 4 I turned in an accuracy test that didn’t exactly stir the masses with its brilliance. In short, it was pretty mediocre for a gun calling itself a competition rifle. I cleaned the barrel and did a few other minor things, but that rifle just didn’t cut it, so it was exchanged for another that I tested for you. And, since I already know how this is going to turn out, I can tell you that this rifle shows what the TF-79 is really capable of.
Good trigger out of the box
On the first rifle, I had to adjust the trigger, so that procedure was turned into Part 2, stretching the report a little. But the current rifle came out of the box with the trigger in a very nice place. Very crisp and repeatable, so I did nothing to it.
Sight adjustments were crisper
I also mentioned that the rear sight on the first rifle had mushy adjustments. The rear sight on this rifle was similarly mushy, but only through the first time it was adjusted. Once the sight had covered the adjustment range, it went back and forth with positive clicks and crispness I could feel. Maybe it’s a good idea to run the adjustment all the way in both directions to clear the mechanism before you try to use the sight.
Let’s go!
Without any fanfare, the rifle was loaded with two CO2 cartridges and readied for shooting. All shooting was done off a rest at 10 meters, and the targets were the official NRA 10-meter targets.
H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets
Sight-in took five shots, and I started with H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets because they seemed right for the rifle. As in the previous report, I shot five-shot groups. I wasn’t too concerned with the pellets hitting the exact center of the bullseye, as long as they were in the black. Once I was in the black, I didn’t adjust the sights for any of the pellets.
Now that is more like it. Five H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets. Group measures 0.379 inches.
RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets
Next, I tried RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets. They gave me a super group and turned out to be the best pellet I tried. They have a head size of 4.50mm.
That’s more like it. Five RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets. Group measures 0.244 inches. This turned out to be the best group in the test.
JSB S-100 Match pellets
After that, I tried some JSB S100 Match pellets. These are hand-sorted by weight at the factory. Pyramyd AIR doesn’t stock them at the present time, but I have found them to be superb in some target rifles. They have a head size of 4.52mm.
Five JSB S100 Match pellets were disappointing. The group measures 0.438 inches.
RWS Hobby pellets
RWS Hobby pellets were next. You may remember that they were the most accurate pellets in the first rifle. In this rifle, they didn’t do as well, and that’s why we have to test every airgun with every pellet before knowing how it’s going to perform.
Not a very good group, although I know what some of you are thinking. You see four shots in a tight group and wonder if the other shot to the right is a flier. Well, it wasn’t called by me. The group measures 0.577 inches, and the four tight shots measure 0.257 inches.
Something different
Many shooters would be inclined to follow up on those Hobbys, giving them more chances to prove themselves. Allow me to explain why I didn’t. Hobby pellets are not made to match pellet standards, so even if I did get a couple wonderful groups from them, I could never trust them enough to use them in a match. Since matches are what this rifle is about, I left the Hobbys and decided to do something different.
that’s why we have to test every airgun with every pellet before knowing how it’s going to perform
Do pellets “condition” the bore?
Many readers of this blog and some other airgunners have stated they believe pellets condition a bore. The more you shoot them in a particular gun, the better they do. I don’t have an opinion about this yet, so I decided to see if it could be demonstrated. I returned to the RWS R-10 Match heavy pellets and shot four more groups. Here they are.
This second group of RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets measures 0.354 inches.
This third group of RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets measures 0.27 inches. It’s the second-tightest group of the test.
This fourth group of RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets measures 0.294 inches.
This fifth group of RWS R-10 Match Heavy pellets measures 0.345 inches between centers.
Conclusions?
From the above results, I would have to say that no “conditioning” effect is demonstrated. That doesn’t answer the question, because one test isn’t enough. It’s just a single data point that I hope to add to over the coming months.
The average spread of all five R-10 groups is 0.3014 inches. Only two of the groups were larger than that, so the tendency of the R-10 is to group under 0.30 inches in this rifle.
The bottom line on the TF-79
After today’s test, I would definitely recommend this target rifle to anyone who wants to shoot 10-meter or even informal target shooting out to any reasonable range. The trigger is wonderful; and as we’ve seen today, the accuracy is also quite good. Who knows if the four pellets I tested were the best for this rifle? The gun’s at least as accurate as I’ve shown and most probably more so.
I’ll still test the rifle on bulk-fill for you. I received the correct hose to bulk-fill from a 20-lb. tank (a fire extinguisher) with this rifle. Since I already have one of them, please allow me to test it that way. That way, I won’t have to shell out money for a paintball tank adapter. Back in my day in the 1990s. 20-lb. CO2 tanks were how we filled bulk CO2 guns, so this is historically accurate.
I’ll have a word with Pyramyd AIR about changing over to a paintball tank adapter for this series of rifles, because in today’s world that does make more sense. I think they will go for it because they sell paintball tanks already filled. The fill procedure is the same regardless of the tank size, because CO2 is a self-regulating gas.
Well. I guess I am sold. As soon as the bulk filled article hits the blog, I am pretty sure I will be ordering the TF79. I guess I do have another question though, how loud is it?
B.B.
It’s good to hear that you did not get another pig.
What does PA do with these rifles when you send them back? Do they include a note that says “This is the one that B.B. gave the thumbs up on?” It might add to the value.
twotalon
twotalon,
Dunno, but I have seen several ads on the yellow forum saying “This is THE gun Tom Gaylord used to do his report on this model in his blog on PA on such and such date.”
Don’t know how they would know if it was or not.
Most likely a B.S. story to sell the gun.
I might have a little trouble believing anything I read unless I personally knew the person making the claims.
I have trouble believing a lot of claims. That includes a lot of reviews that I read.
twotalon
When I bought Tom/BB’s HW50s sample at the Roanoke show last year, Gene (Senior Tech for Pyramyd Air) actually wrote “Tom Gaylord’s sample” as part of the description on the sales receipt. If you’re considering buying a gun that has been advertised on a forum as having that sort of heritage, you should ask to see the PA receipt.
Neil in VA
Neil,
Anyone can write those words on their receipt. I suggest buying Tom’s test guns at shows. If that’s not possible, make sure the person making the claim of having Tom’s test gun is someone you know and trust.
Edith
Everyone,
I can’t see what the big deal is, here. Who cares if it’s the gun I tested? That doesn’t make it any better, does it?
You guys ought to see how many times a better shot can pick up a gun I have just shot and out-shoot me. Mac does it all the time with rifles.
B.B.
B.B.,
Here’s the big deal:
1. The gun is used and therefore reduced in price.
2. The used gun has been tested…meaning it works as intended. No surprises. You know what to expect.
3. Because of No. 2, you won’t encounter any mechanical or other problems.
4. You don’t have to pay for the 10-for-$10 test to verify the gun functions properly, thereby saving even more $.
Edith
Edith,
Thank you. Now I get it. 🙂
B.B.
you two should get married.
B.B.,
Neither you nor Edith got it: The gun has been touched by Tom Gaylord! That alone makes it worth $$$ more on the collector market, and after you’ve gone to the great range in the sky, $$$$$ more!
😉
AlanL
I got B. B.’s test AIR ARMS S200 , but I never found the acuracy part of the test. I can say that is the most acurate and nice handling rifle I own, air or firearm. This includes R1, R7, FWB 124, Marauder and a few others. The triger when adjusted turned into single stage but thats fine with me because it’s still safe and even slicker then the triggers on my R1 or TX200. I plan to use this one for F. T. in the 12 foot pound hunter class if the weather will ever cooperate.
Loren,
I never got around to testing the S200 for accuracy before I got sick last year. Then in November, I returned the rifle to Pyramyd AIR at Roanoke.
That happened with a couple of guns.
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you for bringing that rifle to Roanoke, I love it.
Loren
Hi Edith,
Yes, I agree that anyone could write that on the receipt. I guess what I didn’t say was that Gene wrote it in the MIDDLE of the description. There is enough else written on the receipt (and all in the same handwriting) that it’s obvious it wasn’t added later.
If I ever wanted to sell the rifle — which is very, very doubtful 🙂 — I would certainly include a scan of the receipt along with the photos of the rifle, as I am sure that it would add value in some people’s minds.
As far as I was concerned, the real advantage of buying Tom’s sample was that I got a nice discount on a very gently used gun without the fear of finding any “surprises” after I got it home. I guess you’d get that with any certified used gun from PA, but you won’t get it just buying a used gun from any random table at the show.
Neil
I bought a very unique gun from Tom at Roanoke last year. To me, it’s a little, but important, piece of airgun history. Something more personal than a simple addition to a collection.
Lloyd
twotalon,
I suggested to Pyramyd AIR that the guns Tom tests should be labeled that way. In order to do that, they’d have to have a separate item code (SKU) for that one item. In fact, they may have several guns out for testing (Rick Eutsler, Tom, Jim Chapman, etc.), and they put all of them back under the same item code along with the guns that may have been returned by customers for various reasons (ordered the wrong thing, didn’t like the way the gun handled, didn’t like the grain of the wood, thought the gun looked different in person, etc.). To separate the guns any one person shot would require additional work and may not guarantee that it makes a difference as far as sales are concerned.
The only time you can be sure a gun was tested by Tom is when he returns a gun to Pyramyd AIR at a show, and they mark the guns as being the ones he tested. When Tom ret’d guns to PA at the 2010 Roanoke airgun show, many of his test guns were sold (I believe 60 guns were ret’d).
Anyone can write something on the box saying that it was Tom’s test gun. Buying it directly from PA at a show after Tom ret’d guns would be the only sure way of getting a gun he really did test. Sometimes the gun Tom tests isn’t up for immediate sale. It could be slated to be sent to another person for testing & writing articles. It makes good financial sense to have one test gun instead of several, but it doesn’t always work out that way.
Edith
Edith and B.B.,
why not just include the serial number of the tested gun in Tom’s review? In that way, there will be no doubt and there will always be proof it was the gun Tom reviewed.
T.E.
Tunnel Engineer,
I have no idea why we never thought of that. Brilliant idea!
Edith
TE,
Okay, I’ll do it.
B.B.
twotalon,
I know they did that at Roanoke last year, when I returned a truckload of guns. And they sold most of them.
But when there are problems, they fix them first, before doing anything with the guns.
B.B.
Thanks for the series on this gun. I have been thinking about a QB/TF79 for a while now. I have a 5lb Co2 tank with dual body regulator that I use for kegging my home brewed beer. Is it possible to use this system to bulk fill the TF79? I have never had a Co2 gun before and I am not familiar with the adapters and connectors.
Thanks!
You would have to remove the regulator to make it work.
twotalon
Eric,
I use a 5-pound tank all the time. I have 4 20-pounders and one five-pounder. They all work fine.
About that regulator, I don’t know how it works. I have never used a reg. on a CO2 tank.
B.B.
B.B.
The regulator would have to go for sure.
It’s not going to work well with liquid CO2. It will be set at a much lower pressure than the usual operating pressure of CO2.
Pressurizing a gun with gaseous CO2 is not going to work anyway. A low pressure regulation will make it work even worse.
Of course you need the regulator for a keg. Imagine popping the tap to pour yourself a beer with the keg pressurized to the full operating pressure of CO2 (800-900 psi). That would get pretty exciting very fast.
twotalon
Eric,
I might add that I have done several reports on using bilk CO2 in guns. You might want to read them:
/blog/2006/3/working-with-bulk-fill-co2-guns/
/blog/2006/03/bulk-fill-part-2-2/
/blog/2006/3/bulk-fill-part-3/
/blog/2010/3/the-crosman-118-a-gallery-rifle-that-went-public/
/blog/2009/10/crosman-114-part-2/
/blog/2006/2/crosman-111-pistol/
B.B.
Eric, yes, what Two Talon said and…with beer and beverages you are charging the brew with cO2 gas, with your airgun, you want as much Liquid cO2 as possible to move into and charge the gun. If your bottles have siphon tubes in them, then you will get mostly liquid into the gun (a good thing) otherwise, the bottles work best upside down which let’s the liquid flow into the valve and the gun.
A cold bottle and a cold gun work best to keep the liquid from turning to gas as soon as it hits the warmer gun metal. There is no perfect method but, BB gave me a good tip on the TF79 rifle. Fill the gun for just a few seconds then, use the de-gassing tool to relive the pressure which chills the tube on the gun due to the gas moving at a rapid rate out of the tube and out through the barrel (same as releasing a cO2 cartridge when it’s half full, it ices up). Do this with your co2 source still connected but with the valve off. As soon as the gas is released out the barrel, start refilling with cO2 from your source. That’s about it.
On the second pic. The group of R10 it’s written :
” That’s more like it. *Five H&N Finale Match Heavy pellets*. Group measures 0.244 inches. This turned out to be the best group in the test.”
I guess it should read “Five R10 pellet”
Off topic – I have a Walther CP88 coming in the mail to keep my Colt 1911 company, I love the Colt but heard so much good thing about the Walther I had to give it a try. There is just no end to this. I need more $$$ and storage space. When the tax return comes in I think a Hatsan AT-44 will join in on the fun.
J-F
J-F,
Thanks. I changed it.
Edith
BB,
Were the measurements you quoted ctc? Because I am puzzled. Those to me represent average groups I would get from just about any rifle of any note. For instance rested I can shoot those groups with my Titan GP. With my Crosman storm XT I can keep about 80% of my groups under .2″ ctc. With my custom Mountain Air 2300S carbine I can keep all groups below .16″ and some as low as .08″ and one at .02″, and with my Daisy 953 I can keep all groups in the .1 – .2″ range.
The two groups I would start to get excited about were the .24 and .27″ groups. On another note about accuracy, I believe that is a .22 caliber? Do you think that .22’s are less accurate than .177? I am beginning to suspect it because most of the guns I shoot which give extreme accuracy are .177’s. Only .22 I had that would equal the better ones I have is the Discovery.
pcp4me,
All groups were ctc. That is the only way to represent a group, unless you say otherwise.
The TF-79 is a .177. The pellets I linked to are all .177. I thought that was clear.
I don’t think a .22 pellet rifle is any less accurate than a .177 because of the caliber, alone. But since the rules require .177 caliber, only, all target rifles and pistols made today are made in that caliber. If they are now, they are not true 10-meter guns.
The .22 Marauder, Discovery and any AirForce rifle will all shoot right along with any .177 rifle at any range.
B.B.
B.B.,
How did you protect 60 guns while driving to Roanoke? Soft cases, hard cases or ?
kevin
Kevin,
Most were in boxes. Those that came in clamshells got gun sleeves, but if I run out of those I use a heavy blanket or moving pad rolled up around each rifle.
B.B.
Heavy blankets and furniture pads. Great ideas. Thank you.
Wow. Moving 60 guns out of the house must have allowed you to use the living room again. 60 guns, even without boxes, takes up a lot of room.
kevin
Kevin,
You are exactly right! Of course these guns are stored all over the house, but when they all come together so Edith and I can inventory them prior to loading them in the truck, they take over our library, which is the room most families would call a dining room.
Then Mac arrives and adds his 20 guns to the pile and we are bursting at the seams.
B.B.
Re: Dining room renamed the Library
I beieve this is because BB has spent so much money on all his guns that he spends a lot of time reading soup can labels.
-Chuck
BB,
I’m glad you got another one — this one is more like what the consensus seems to be on them. Your point about not necessarily having found the right pellet is a good one — the fact that all of the pellets you tested were in the ballpark is a good sign. If it were mine, I would be happy with these groups as a first pass, continue testing pellets, and possibly polish the bore, etc. The sights take some getting used to, also. No reflection on the limitation of your testing, as you would admit, I’m sure, that there is a whole world full of other pellets to test in this rifle. The fact that the first rifle shot only one pellet even reasonably was the biggest red flag to me.
As far as seasoning with pellets, I don’t know what other people have experienced, but what I’ve found is that going from hard (e.g., Crosman) pellets to soft (e.g., RWS, JSB) pellets requires some shooting before the soft pellet performs consistently, even though I don’t have a single air rifle that is powerful enough ostensibly to cause “leading”.
I bought one of these from Archer Airguns in the paintball-tank version, .177 caliber, to practice my offhand. Frankly, at the price these go for, I considered it a starting point and expected to have to do a lot of “tweaking” to get it to shoot well. After a complete teardown (surprisingly easy to work on, by the way), some deburring, polishing, and a thorough cleaning to get the Chinese wok oil out of it, I’m now getting 10-shot groups in the sub-.300’s (benchrest – I certainly can’t do it offhand).
And yes, I have a 953 which will shoot very near that level, but the trigger on it defeats any serious attempts at offhand shooting – for me, anyway.
I have the tools to machine and install a new barrel – I’m thinking Lothar Walther. I enjoy shooting this rifle and intend to keep it, although probably with modifications.
Jim
Jim, glad your gun is working out well for you. I was happily surprised at the overall quality of my AR2078/TF79 gun too. I have put on an adjustable butt pad, a longer bolt handle and the hammer de-bounce device which came with the modified (narrow tip) bolt probe, etc. Mine is a fairly recent production gun and neither myself or Stephen Archer knew that the factory had clanged the location of the bleed-hole for the cO2 cartridges. This is a tiny drill hole located in the threaded area of the tube where the bulk-fill adaptor or the cartridge sealing adaptor screw on. The hole location was changed to 10mm from the end of the tube, it was 2.5mm previously. This wasn’t a problem with cO2 cartridges, as the o-ring on the sealing adaptor resides behind (towards the trigger) the small hole. It was a big problem on the bulk-fill adaptor, as it’s o-ring position put it ahead of the bleed hole. I re-machined the adaptor to re-position the o-ring groove behind the bleed hole and all works well.
My best 10 meter group so far with RWS R10 Match pellets is .208 ctc with many at .277 to .344-ish. Occasionaly, I will put 5 shots into one, ragged hole but, I can’t claim any influence on those groups as they seem to be a result of all the fates aligning that I can’t repeat on command (if only…).
I found this gun to be very easy to work on as you noted. The trigger group especially, as it did not go “sproing, plink, oops” when I took the cover plate off. The other parts are easy to work on also with very few surprises.
For the money, a great gun and lot’s of fun to shoot, accurately.
Incidentally, since I don’t shoot in active competition, I test my rifles with both domed and wadcutter pellets. The two best pellets in my rifle were the Air Arms Diabolo Field Heavy, and the Crosman Premier Light (7.9 gr, cardboard box). Both of these pellets, in my rifle, will shoot well beyond my capability.
Jim
Jim,
I thought about using domes, but since this is a 10-meter gun and I wanted to show the targets so people could see the results, I figures wadcutters were the best to use.
B.B.
B.B.,
PA claims the following for the TF79, “Outstanding accuracy of 0.08 inches center-to-center”. I wonder what pellets they used for this kind of performance?
Victor
It would not much matter .
Which rifle that was tested and which pellet that was used is not going to be the one you buy.
You could get a rifle that does just as good with the right pellet, but not necessarily the one that that particular rifle was tested with. The one you get could shoot horribly with them.
About all you know is that ONE rifle shot ONE kind of pellet that well.
twotalon
Victor,
The Tech Force guns came to Pyramyd AIR from Compasseco, when they bought the company. The technical descriptions came with them.
We are looking into this, but what you see here today is what you can expect. That figure they quoted may have been carried over by mistake from the BS-4 rifle that is a copy of the FWB 300. It really will shoot that well.
But this one won’t.
B.B.
B.B.,
Right, this seemed like a significant discrepancy. If the TF79 truly could produced 0.08 ctc error as an expected accuracy (which you would hope advertised claimed represent), then PA would not be able to stock them fast enough. I’d certainly buy a few, even though I don’t need one. I still like the TF79, but would be happier to know that it had a utility rail. If there is one recommendation that I would make to PA, or TechForce, it would be that they add an Anschutz like rail. These rails aren’t expensive to buy, and are readily available, but I don’t have the tools to adequately embed the rail into the stock myself. With a rail, this rifle could seriously rival the Crosman Challenger. Without the rail, it’s limited as a competition rifle. In anycase, the price is very attractive, and the accuracy is acceptable, for a introductory precision class-like rifle.
Victor
Victor,
Honestly, this rifle doesn’t begin to achieve the accuracy of the Crosman Challenger PCP or the AirForce Edge. Think of it as one order of magnitude less accurate.
And that, I think, is why they don’t add the rail, which would increase the retail price by $20.
B.B.
B.B.,
If I were TechForce, I’d add a better barrel, and the rail, and sell it for between $300 and $400. They’d dominate the market with a better gun, even at twice the cost of the TF79. Just my opinion, of course.
Victor
B.B.,
First, sorry for the elementary question: as a subscriber to don’t put anything down your airgun barrel other than a pellet until you must–my RWS 34 barrel is fouled enough that accuracy is well off and it won’t clear 3 felt cleaning pellets. I intend to run a brush with something on it and some patches after. What should i use as a cleaner and am I on the right track? Thank you and hope things are well w/ you and your family.
Steve
Steve,
The RWS 34 fouls quickly with Crosman pellets, because they foul the bore fast in more powerful airguns.
Here is how to clean your barrel:
/blog/2005/11/is-your-airgun-barrel-really-clean/
/blog/2008/7/beeman-crow-magnumtheoben-eliminator-part-2/
/blog/2005/11/improving-accuracy-with-a-spring-piston-airgun/
B.B.
Steve
You may also want to check your breech seal.
If I was looking for my first ‘competition’ rifle this would be on the list.
But it appears to be no more accurate…maybe not even as accurate as my 853c.
On a competition note…has anyone here ever used/owned a FAS AP604. I’m possibly looking to upgrade my Gamo Compact. Am not in the stratsphere of the Steyr’s/Walthers/Pardini’s…yet 😉
The IZH 46M and the FAS are in my range. I’m fairly familiar with the Izzy but a friend of mine (who hasn’t actually shot one) is really pushing me towards the FAS.
Any opinions.
Thanks.
CSD,
I have held and handled the FAS604, and I believe it to be superior to the Compact. It would be on par with an IZH 46M for accuracy and perhaps better designed for ergonomics.
B.B.
As always b.b., you’re quick with the answer that puts a dent in my wallet 😉
Really…thanks. I gotta admit I like the looks of the FAS. I originally purchased the Gamo over the Izzy because of the ergonomics, and the FAS was described by my friend as a Compact on steroids…more accurate, better built and nearly 100fps more velocity.
I think the FAS is one of the best looking pistols available.
The Italians really what they’re doing in the design dept.
The Zoraki/Webley Alecto has a lot going for it but good looks certainly ain’t one 😉
If/when you do get it I hope you’ll share your impressions about it, I’ve been looking at it for a while now but the price helped me control myself.
J-F
KNOW… ugh
The Italians really KNOW what they’re doing
Loren,
Well, since I never did do an accuracy report, how about you telling us all how well your S200 shoots?
B.B.
B.B.
I seldom do an all out acuracy test on my rifles and I have no proof of this now, but I did get a five shot group at 25 yds. all holes touching. This was sitting in my Lazy Boy shooting out through the open window with my off arm elbow resting on the arm rest.
Loren
Loren,
I sure hope that you have some way of knowing whether or not someone is going to cross the blind-spots into your field of view. That sounds dangerous.
Victor
Victor I think I’ve that angle covered.
B.B. –
After reading and researching for about six months a few years back, I finally bought an adult air rifle…my first in about 40 years. It was a TF79. I’ve had it for about four years now, and still shoot it often. Like yours, mine prefers Meisterkugelns, and will regularly produce 10-shot groups like you are getting.
This is the airgun that I use to introduce new airgun shooters to the sport. No special techniques needed, and no spring to keep an eye on while loading. The people that have tried this gun have all had some kind of experience with powder burners, so the drill is familiar to them. They seem comfortable with it right off the bat.
Mine wears a 3-9 scope now, but the original peep sights were decent. Believe it or not, the rear peep now sits on a steel-receiver IZH-61. That’s the next airgun that new shooters get to shoot at my house. BTW, I have the IZH-61 because of your recommendation, and it was a great one. I picked this gem up at a Wichita gun show for $57, and will never part with it.
Regards from the flatlands,
Jim in KS
Jim,
So tell us, does the scope make your TF-79 even more accurate than the peep sight? Because I have no plans to scope this rifle.
B.B.
B.B. –
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the scope makes my TF79 more accurate than the peeps. The peeps are pretty good. They just require more concentration. I will say that the scope makes shooting good groups easier… especially with middle-aged eyes. Of course, you wouldn’t have any idea what that would be like, would you? 🙂
Reagards,
– Jim in KS
Jim in KS,
Should you recommend the FT79 to a young shooter, I suggest that you recommend that they stick with aperture sights, as that’s what they would be using in competition. Also, I believe that a shooter who masters the fundamentals will shoot at least as well with iron sights as they would a scope. Having shot FWB 300’s in competition, I like the TF79 as an introductory rifle. It’s got similar ergonomics, it’s not too heavy, and it has aperture sights like the higher end rifles.
Victor
Victor –
LOL… I really do appreciate your concern for getting “new” shooters off on the right foot when it comes to sight selection. I agree with you. However, most of the “new” airgun shooters that try this rifle at my house are middle-aged, not teen-aged. Most have also shot competitively in their earlier years, definitely with the appropriate peep sights. When I offer to let friends shoot my air rifles, it isn’t to get them interested in shooting guns… They already do that. It’s to get them interested in shooting AIR guns. BTW, most of them are impressed enough with shooting mine to go get their own.
Regards,
– Jim in KS
Jim in KS,
Cool! If someone likes to shoot, nothing makes shooting more accessible than air-guns.
Victor
B.B. –
After I hit the “submit comment” button, I re-read your photo captions and saw that your rifle prefers R-10’s. I shot a lot of R-10’s in the beginning, but mine shoots the Meisterkugelns just as well and to the same point of aim, so I save a bit of money where I can.
Keep shooting, keep writing… and stay healthy!
– Jim in KS
B.B.
How does the TF79 accuracy compare to the Avanti 887.
Dave in sultan
David,
The Avanti 887 is more accurate. It’s in the Crosman Challenger class.
B.B.
B.B. nice shooting, although getting a bad rifle like you did does raise the specter of quality control. I’d be interested in hearing from anyone how the Challenger and Air Force Edge are faring in competition.
A bit of information that might help others as it has helped me. In working the slide of a 1911 or any semiauto pistol, if you grab the slide over the barrel make sure that your fingers are away from the muzzle and that your hand is not over the ejection port. The word is that high-level and experienced shooters have had their fingers blown off or suffered burns and nerve damage when superheated gas and pressure exits the ejection port from misfires. There is another danger which is that people who have difficulty with stiff recoil springs will tend to oppose their elbows to bring greater pressure on the slide. This swings the muzzle towards their gut. Reportedly, some guy had a tendency to do this, and one day was found dead at a shooting range, and a ballistic analysis indicated that he had shot himself this way.
Victor, interesting about the toes cocked theory for Karate kicks. I can see hitting with the flat bottom of the foot but the ball of the foot with the toes pulled back would take a lot of training for me. What about this other question? The Karate punch as I understand it derives a lot of its force from a push-pull dynamic with the chambering of the off-hand. However, this position exposes the whole head and torso to a counterstrike. If one modified the punching technique to protect oneself with the offhand, it seems unavoidable that you would lose a lot of pop with your strike. So what is the solution? Boxing makes a very big deal about always protecting yourself during a strike with the chin down and the opposite hand and arm covering up. The power of the punch derives from thrusting with the rear leg, stepping with the front foot and rotating the hips, so power is not compromised.
Thanks for your observations about personal development and shooting. The regimen you described for your shooting career indicates a very high level of maturity. No wonder you mowed down the opposition. At the elite level did you ever encounter the phenomenon of the natural crack shot who could excel without practicing?
Orin, congratulations. Many are called but few are chosen. In my style it’s said that the hardest test next to the one for black belt is the one to move beyond white belt. As I understand it, Kempo is a version of Karate influenced by Chinese techniques and Americanized with some eclectic techniques. It should give you a good variety to work with. The main thing is that you have a good teacher and good students none of whom are violent egomaniacs or people with no self-control.
So, Edith, how are you doing with the martial arts…? 🙂
Matt61
Matt61
If I were fighting a boxer, I’d be more guarded about the counter-punch. Boxing and Karate are different fight styles, such that the boxer would have more to worry about. In Karate, balance is more important, so when attacking, your feet are sometimes almost parallel, and close together so that you don’t lose power. The wider your legs, the less power you have. Also, in Karate the use of the hips is important for power. I fight with my right hand up, but not tucked into my chin. My left hand is lower for a wider defense that includes kicks. Also, the larger the glove, the less you can see the full range of your opponent. Vision, as well as presence of mind are critical. In Karate, like firearm combat, situational awareness is critical. Now, in an attack, you will cock opposite arms back between punches so that you have maximum power and correct form. Remember, In Karate, the goal is not to go 10, 12, or 15 rounds, the goal is to take your opponent out within a minute or so.
I knew of no natural crack shots, however, because shooting is so mental, I have seen some strange things happen. A buddy of mine stopped practicing for at least 6 months to help his father with the family business. Then, during a state championship, with only one day of practice, shot the highest score of his life. This was a guy who shot high 770’s, low 780’s, but who suddenly broke 790 out of 800 in 4 position. Every strong competitor that I knew (across the country, really), was extremely committed to shooting. Friends who made Olympic teams actually put their lives on hold (including work) for several years. They didn’t care if they lived like poor beggars, once they made the decision, they went for it 100%. Remember, plateaus are not permanent. When you break out of one, it’s pretty obvious. It’s not luck. You’re a changed shooter.
FOLLOW-THROUGH
One last thing regarding follow-through. You wondered about the benefit of follow-through when shooting your small-bore rifle because of the recoil. I’ve been playing with this while testing my Ruger 10/22 Target model. If you follow-through long enough after the shot is fired, you should see where your sight picture lands after things settle. Where you end up tells you a great deal about errors that you might have made during the execution of the shot. I find that when I do everything right, the final sight picture ends up on the bullseye, where it should be. The final picture will indicate issues with your trigger squeeze, or issues with how you are holding the gun. Remember, sometimes we subconsciously make a final “small adjustment” just before taking a shot. Relax, and check that your natural point of aim is correct. Take note of how much your whole hand might be pushing your sight picture off during your trigger squeeze. Follow-through. Really watch the sight picture throughout the whole shot. Take note of jumps in a specific direction, or even magnitude. The shot is not over until everything is settled. If the gun ends up somewhere other than where you started, when taking the shot, then you need to make further adjustments before you start your shot. Don’t compensate, fix your position so that you don’t need to final adjustments that require even the smallest amount of muscular force.
Victor
Mike,
Actually, it’s not theory. It’s the only way certain Japanese/Okinawan practitioners have been kicking for almost two centuries. Also, it’s not hard to do when it’s the only way that you train. It’s one of those things where it becomes instinctive. Again, these kicks are like punches, and thus harder to block. Something that comes in straight, versus swooping, as a smaller cross-section. But the trick is to lift the knee up and then punch out. It’s nothing like kicking a football, where you do in fact kick with the top of the foot. Because it’s straight out, your toes are always out of harms way. Make sense?
Victor
Hello,
BB, I read your three-piece report on the Marlin Cowboy BB gun, and you said that accuracy aint’ its strong point.
Could anyone comment on its accuracy? I like it for its (nearly) all wood and metal construction and just the look of the thing, but if its really inaccurate, I won’t git’ it.
Thanks
Well first it’s a BB gun so expect BB gun accuracy…
The attention to detail is there except on the piece of plastic that covers the “barrel” everywhere the screws are countersunk into the wood not over the wood like the RedRyder and it feels more solid to me. Accuracy wise I think it places between a little under my RedRyder but above my Mod. 25 but I didn’t have much time to shoot it before winter came and slowed airgun shooting. For the price I think you should get it and if you don’t have a RedRyder pick one up at the same time you’ll be able to compare and pick a favorite and let friends borrow the other one when they come to your place.
J-F
p.s. Good name
BB, here’s a thought on shooting your Ballard. Many single shot rifles, and lever actions too, shoot much better from the bench if they are supported just in front of the receiver rather than out on the fore arm. You might give this a try and see if it helps tighten the groups.
Mike
Mike,
I will find a way to try that, but the Ballard was always shot from the double rest, as I am doing now. I’m not sure there will be an advantage.
B.B.