by B.B. Pelletier
The Tech Force 79 Competition rifle is a lot of value for a very low price.
Well, the best laid plans of mice and men….I was supposed to be at the SHOT Show today, but the night before my flight left I went to the emergency room with what I thought might be appendicitis. It turned out to be a small but painful hernia, which cancelled all travel plans and heavy lifting for a while. So, no SHOT Show this year! Apparently, my extended hospital stays and being fed intravenously for so many months last year resulted in too much muscle loss. The doctors believe it will heal up shortly without any surgery.
That’s sad, because Crosman is unveiling a brand new kind of big bore air rifle. Named the Rogue, we called it the electronic PCP during development, because it uses computer control of the valve to get far greater efficiency than has ever been possible.
The idea of an electronically controlled valve isn’t new. Daystate has been doing it for several years and getting great results. But, no other airgun will get the performance this new gun offers. The computer senses the remaining air pressure in the reservoir and holds the firing valve open long enough to extract highly consistent velocities. Instead of 2 shots or 6 good shots from a big bore, what would you say to the possibility of 10 high-powered shots? Or, change the programming and get 20 lower-powered shots at a level that’s still impressive.
This new system was invented by one of our own blog readers, Lloyd Sikes. He signs in here as Lloyd. He first showed me his design at the Roanoke airgun show several years ago, and I was so blown away with the possibilities that I set up a meeting with Crosman. Of all the airgun companies in the world, Crosman is the only one open to new and radical ideas, as well as having the engineering and production capability to act on it. Lloyd initially demonstrated his invention by video, followed by several live demonstrations at the Crosman plant. They made the decision to take his idea and make it into a producible airgun system, and I use the word system advisedly. Although the initial offering is a rifle in .357 caliber (imagine the hundreds of lead bullets now made in this caliber!), a barrel change allows conversion to .30 caliber and even .410 gauge! For the first time in history, we may have an air shotgun with power identical to a firearm! I’m talking about sending a half-ounce of shot out the muzzle at over 1,100 f.p.s.!
Imagine filling to 3,000 psi and still firing shots at the same velocity when the pressure has dropped below 1,500 psi. This will be the most flexible, most adaptable big bore airgun ever conceived.
Crosman has poured their corporate heart and soul into this project, knowing that they have a technology unlike any that’s gone before. The future may hold .50 caliber buffalo rifles, real usable shotguns, smallbore rifles that have incredible velocity uniformity…and the list goes right on out to the horizon. And, you, my dear readers, are the absolute first set of airgunners outside the development team to learn about it. This is the big bore that many people guessed would be some kind of Marauder on steroids. It’s nothing of the kind. It’s a brand-new technology that has never been seen before.
I’ll be getting a rifle to test for you this year, so the future bodes well for more great new toys.
Today, we’ll look at the velocity of our .177 caliber Tech Force Competition Rifle, as well as the endurance of two 12-gram CO2 cartridges. Don’t be confused because this is Part 3. I did a special report on the trigger in Part 2.
Pyramyd AIR rates this target rifle at 550 f.p.s., which is right where a 10-meter target rifle ought to be. But, the test rifle proved to be more powerful than that. Before I get into the velocity numbers, though, I’d like to share some more info on the trigger.
Sweet trigger
At the end of the trigger report in part 2, I told you that the trigger was almost creep-free. Just a hint of creep remained in stage two because I insisted on more sear contact area for safety. I also lubed the sear and the trigger contact with moly grease. Within just a handful of shots, the moly had erased all hint of creep, and I now have a target trigger worthy of the name. I cannot emphasize too strongly what an incredible value this trigger is in such a low-priced airgun.
Velocity
The first pellet I tested was the RWS R10 7.7-grain target wadcutter. It seems RWS has dropped this pellet in favor of an even lighter 7.0-grain R10. But, it was the heavier pellet that I tested. They averaged 613 f.p.s. and the range stretched from 608 to 617 f.p.s. for a span of 9 f.p.s. They average 6.43 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
Next, I tried the H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets. They weigh 7.56 grains and they averaged 617 f.p.s. in the test rifle. The range went from 614 to 619 f.p.s., so a tight spread of only 5 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 6.39 foot-pounds.
I cannot emphasize too strongly what an incredible value this trigger is in such a low-priced airgun.
Gamo Match pellets were next. They weigh 7.71 grains and averaged 613 f.p.s. in the test rifle. The velocity spread went from 610 to 617 f.p.s., so only a 7 f.p.s. spread. Average muzzle energy was 6.43 foot-pounds.
The last pellet I tested was the RWS Hobby. They were the fastest pellets, at an average of 632 f.p.s., and the range went from 629 to 636 f.p.s. The spread was 7 f.p.s. The average muzzle energy was 6.21 foot-pounds.
After this testing, a total of 40 shots had been fired with the two CO2 cartridges. I continued shooting Hobbys to see what the total number of shots would be. The velocity fell off immediately. By shot 48, it dipped below 600 f.p.s for the first time. This particular rifle has a total of 40 good shots on a set of two CO2 cartridges. That might be extended a few rounds in the hot summertime, and in cold weather it might be a few less. I shot in my office with the temperature at 70 degrees F.
A plinker could go on for several additional shots, but a target shooter wouldn’t want to. That’s where the degasser comes into play. When CO2 is in the reservoir, the o-rings press against the walls of the reservoir so hard that no amount of effort short of vice grips can turn the end cap off the gun. The degasser lets you dump the remaining pressure and start all over again.
The degasser slips into a hole on the left side of the gun and works just as the name says.
I’m going to get a setup for bulk-filling in a future report. For now, know that the TF79 is even more efficient than the classic Crosman 167 (the .177 caliber version of the 160). Coupled with better overall design and a finer trigger, that’s saying a lot. Accuracy will be the next thing we look at.
OT: Is the Benjamin Marauder rifle or the Beeman Falcon-R more accurate? Performance seems otherwise comparable, with more versatility or at least adjustability from the marauder. I’m interested in hunting and field target rather than pure target work, but would like as much accuracy as I can get. If there is another choice besides these that is more accurate, please advise.
Simon it looks as you did not get an answer from anyone today, perhaps your address of “OT” was the issue? Who is OT?
Anyway, the Marauder is likely the best choice of the two in my opinion. It is well priced, very accurate, adjustable in many ways (in the U.S. model) and there are many aftermarket parts and modifications available. The Crosman company has made 1000’s of these since it’s debut and that too is a plus for parts, service and availability.
With the right scope and mounts, accuracy is one hole after another in the target based on the shooters capability. From what you noted, I would go with .22 caliber in which you can hunt, target shoot and even HFT targets.
Get well soon!
B.B., Hope you are feeling better shortly. That’s too bad about you having to miss the SHOT show and Crosmans announcement. At first I was anxious to get back to reading about the TF79, but this ePCP definitely held my interest as I read on. Thank you for sharing it with us here first! Crosman won’t mind, will they?
As for the TF79, Pyramid has it listed as 550fps for the .22 TF79, but 700 for the .177. Which pellet would they be using for that number, or is that something they disclose? Not a big deal, but thought I might point that out.
Please give us the lowdown on the bulk fill option for the 79 as soon as you can. Right now, I have my next purchase locked between this TF79 Comp, The 79 tanker, or the Disco. Just need to figure out which order I will buy them in…
Sorry to hear about your hernia BB and missing the SHOTshow.This whole Pancreatic business has been the gift that just keeps on bloody giving hasn’t it.
It’s very exciting to read about this new rifle system and technology.What a privilege to get an exclusive.
Thanks BB.
Well done Lloyd.It is the inventors and innovators of this world that keep humanity moving forward.
Bless em all.
DaveUK
B.B.
I am no stranger to the old ‘the crap never stops’ stuff myself. Hope this gets cleared up for you.
Are they giving you any more freedom with your diet yet?
twotalon
twotalon,
No, the diet just became more restrictive, because apparently a high-fiber, high-protein diet is exactly what is needed to fix the hernia. Well, that and some moderate exercise to build some new muscle tissue.
B.B.
Actually, not much will change. You’ll take in a bit more fiber every day, and that’s about it. Life is good, although I’m pretty darned tired 🙂
Edith
Sorry to hear about your health issues and missing the SHOT show this year and thank you very much for still telling us about this great new rifle/shotgun, I’ve been reading and looking at the teasers Crosman put up on facebook in the last few days and wondering what they could be coming out with now.
I think it’s great to see a company like Crosman that even thought they have great selling new stuff out, they still develops new products. This is great and it seems to be a great time to be an airgunner.
Any other great stuff coming out that you can tell us about?
J-F
B.B.
Sorry to hear about the hernia. I have been living with one for a number of years and have come to regard it as a blessing as it has resulted in me making significant lifestyle changes as regard to diet and exercise. My weight is where it should be and I am living a more healthy life.
With regard to Lloyd’s invention; do you think it can be used to produce a CO2 hunting rifle ( CP 14.3gr pellet travelling @ 800 fps )? It would reduce the cost of a pcp to the point where the masses-like my self could afford one:-
No expensive hand pump needed
No expensive scuba tank for bulk filling
No expensive compressor or trips to the dive shop.
When hunting in the bush it would be easier and less bulky to carry around a box of CO2 cartridges than a hand pump.
Pete
Pete,
While it might be possible to apply this technology to CO2, I doubt it will ever be done, because CO2 is self-regulating. Also, the additional issue of temperature comes into play. Not only would the gun have to know the remaining pressure in the reservoir, it would also have to know the temperature of the valve and barrel, so it could calculate their effect on the expanding gas.
B.B.
Morning B.B.,
That’s definitely a bummer missing this year’s Shot Show and the official unavailing of Crosman’s new rifle. The upside is that this health problem is not in the same league as what your happened with your pancreas.
Lloyd, congratulations on you spectacular contribution to the world of PCP’s. It’s a honor to know and talk with you. How about a blog or two on your invention?
Well BB, it seems you have unleashed a fountain of creativity over at Crosman Corp.
It started with the Benjamin Discovery I think, which you helped design of course.
Then there’s the nitro piston guns, the Marauder, the Challenger, the Silo, the Marauder pistol and now this. A Crosman PCP .410 gauge shotgun? Where do I sign up? Any idea where this little delight will be priced? Crosman is on fire.
BB take it easy, let Edith chop the firewood! 😉
SL,
The .410 shotgun isn’t in the plans, yet. But it is among my most fervent hopes for the future of this platform. We know from the performance data already derived that the gun can launch that much weight at that velocity. So making it into a shotgun is all that remains! 😉
B.B.
B.B.
What would this rifle do if you only loaded one good CO2 cart in it and left a dead one in?
Lower velocity, lower shot count, or both?
twotalon
TT, that situation would be exactly like having 2 carts in there that are half empty, so I think its safe to say you’re looking at a lower shot count only.
BB, tough break… but at least a (relatively) minor one. And now you get to save that appendicitis for ANOTHER occasion!
TT I tried that this past week in my TF79. Definitely a lower shot count! 27 good shots vs. normal 42-ish. Velocity was nearly the same at 700 + fps but… the velocity drops much faster with only one Co2 cart (my gun has the trick bolt probe etc, so it’s normally 723 fps average across first 10 shots) Had similar shot count results in my Walther Lever Action with one cartridge.
Co2 operates near 900 psi regardless of volume (around 70 F) so one cartridge will work “ok” in a small volume reservoir like the TF79 has. Effectiveness however, diminishes very rapidly as volume increases.
twotalon,
When I did a one-powerlet test with a 160 years ago I got roughly the same velocity (just a little less) and a smaller shot count.
B.B.
Darn, BB! Bad news on the hernia and shot show! Isn’t it amazing how these things seem to know when to happen to screw things up the most?
-Chuck
BB Really sorry to hear about you missing the SHOT show, it is touted as “the best ever” this year but as you know, they say that every year! Please take care of yourself and… will Mac or other roving reporters being sending back SHOT reports to you?
Brian,
Mac didn’t go to the show either. But I’m sure I will get some feedback from those who did attend and we’ll be able to figure out what is new.
B.B.
BB,
Man, talk about Murphy’s law refined down to the worst case scenario! Sorry to hear about this. Am praying for your quick recovery.
As for the Crosman Rogue, WOW! Only one negative right now I can see. In Missouri you must have a.40 caliber or larger to hunt deer. So if Crosman just brings one out based on the .41 magnum lead bullets I am throwing my hat into the ring! That along with a 6.5 mm barrel conversion and a 410 shotgun barrel conversion would be my ideal set up for game from varmits to deer and birds and squirrels and rabbits with the shot gun barrel.
Thanks for every thing you have done to bring all these wonderful pcp guns to market!
BB,
Tough luck on you not making the trip to Vegas. I was working things out here with my schedule and all to get a couple days at the show with the hopes to get a chance to meet up with you. Next time, I guess. Rest and heal my friend.
Today’s post has me re reading parts 1 & 2. What a great gun! All at the price level of causing a major domestic conflict without finding my belongings out on the driveway!
ka
KA,
Crosman understands the need to keep the price in line. What they would like to do is bring a lot of firearm shooters into airgunning with this new gun. So it has to be reasonable.
B.B.
Yeah, Crosman is proving themselves THE leader in PCP much like Savage has in firearms.
Two great companies!
ka
BB,
please also accept my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I’ve had a hernia and know it’s a pain to deal with until it heals or is fixed. But did you have to reveal this new Crosman Rogue(?) with only bits and pieces of information? I just put another shelf up for my air rifles and have room for a few more. Guess this is going to fill a space. Only question I have is whether I’ll be able to shoot it indoors? That is, the only question amongst a host of others – weight? accuracy? fill pressures? cost? trigger? This will be in the forefront of my mind for quite some time, now. LLoyde, well done. Can hardly wait to see your design in steel and wood.
I think it really puts a very positive image on Crosman and it’s senior management on all the new and marvelous products they’ve come out with in the last several years – the Disco, the Maruader, the Challenger, the Marauder pistol, the Nitro and now this! Obviously they’re looking to become the undisputed BEST air gun manufacturer in the World.
Fred PRoNJ
Fred,
My plan was to photograph me shooting the Rogue during Media Day, which is today. I will get the complete specs for you, but as of this time, I don’t have them. I have seen some preproduction drawings of what the gun will look like, but I wanted an in-the-flesh picture to show. That’s one reason missing the SHOT Show this year is such a bummer.
B.B.
That’s one reason missing the SHOT Show this year is such a bummer.
B.B.
Any other “reasons” you’ll be telling us about ?
A little internet search tells us that Crosman applied for the Rogue trademark in may 2010 but also shows the Benjamin Epic can you tell us more about it?
J-F
J-F,
Epic was my choice for the name of the new rifle. I got that because we were referring to the EPCP all the time, and it just sounded similar.
While they registered the name, they have no immediate plans to use it, as far as I know.
B.B.
BB,
Sorry to hear about the hernia — I know you are going to miss being at the SHOT show. You have had too much trouble — Job is starting to come to mind.
The e-valve sounds like a step in the right direction for PCP’s. I’m hopeful the big-bore is just the beginning of integrating that type of technology. I wonder how much use many of the bullets on the market will be, however, because they probably will not obturate, esp. jacketed ones. Perhaps a caliber, such as .50 where there are sabot’d bullets widely available for inline ML’ers would be a good starting place for those who want to do longish range shooting; they can be extremely accurate.
BG_Farmer,
Well, as you no doubt know, there are hundreds of different types of solid lead cast bullets for sale on the market. They outnumber any other caliber, when it comes to lead bullets. So getting the right bullet should be easy for anyone.
This was the reason they didn’t make this rifle a 9mm, which is .356 instead of .357. There are very few cast bullets in that caliber. Most are jacketed, like you mention.
Thirty caliber will be another good one, even though it is mostly thought of as a jacketed bullet caliber. There are still dozens of pule lead cast bullets to choose from.
Sabots are out, because of the residue they leave in the bore. They are the bane of air rifles. Cold air doesn’t have what it takes to burn off the plastic residue that then accumulates in the rifling, fouling the bore.
B.B.
Lloyd,
Kudos, dude! This is like inventing radial tires, or rubber for that matter! The future applications for this system could be endless. You’re my new best friend.
ka
Congratulations to Lloyd Sikes, Tom Gaylord and Crosman! Lloyd for inventing the new system, Tom for his ability to recognize the significance of the new system, power to get in front of Crosman and rapport with Crosman to get them to listen and Crosman for implementation.
With this news, my respect and admiration for Crosman has increased exponentially. Never thought Crosman would be interested in electronics or a big bore. What a leap the Rogue is for the Crosman lineup.
B.B.,
Very sorry to hear you can’t make the SHOT Show. First time in years. Missing this one will be like missing the birth of a child though. Please get well soon.
kevin
Crosman was into electronic triggers (think the Skanaker target pistol) before almost any other company in the world. And the pistol is said to have been very good.
Also the original Olympic Challenger rifles, which were built in the Crosman model-shop per order, That was 1988-ish, I think? Electronic triggers…thay may out-Daystate Daystate!
(Jump ahead 10 years)
BB,
I found an old box of Crosman EverCopperEddie batteries in my grandpa’s attic. They still have some charge in them and not much corrosion. I’d say their finish is at least 80%. Do you think I can still use them in my Crosman 3421 eGun? How many shots do you think I can get out of them?
-RobbieDobbie
Chuck:
Oh man,That was funny 🙂
DaveUK
B.B.,
Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag about the Rogue ePCP. I can’t really say much right now, but had it not been for BB, this never would have gotten out of the gate. Crosman is the one company with the vision, drive, resources, and above all, courage, to develop and bring this to market. Their effort to do so has been nothing short of Herculean. The credit must go to all the folks at Crosman.
Best regards,
Lloyd
No so fast there young man. From what I read above, it was YOU that invented the new system. With out you, BB and Crosman could have done nothing, with due respect to BB and Crosman.
You may not want to pat yourself on the back, but I will. That a boy, you did good.
Congratulations Lloyd! Yes, I’m sure Crosman had a huge job bringing it to a point to manufacture, but you developed the idea in the first place. Good job! I’m looking forward to seeing it.
AR
SHOT Show auction gun.
Still 4 days left to bid on this one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206871796
kevin
Oh boy, only $83k ?
Or… 115 model 1911 .45 ACP pistols from Springfield or Legacy and so many other fine gun makers…
Or… one each of every excellent PCP rifle currently made in every caliber and 3 carbon fiber SCBA rigs with all the goodies AND a hi-pressure compressor for the garage
That Colt 1911 sure is pretty, but it’s just a Colt 1911
Same guys who buy Ferrari Daytonas to look at, buy these types of guns.
OMG! 82.6K for any gun? And 4 days left on the auction?
Bummer man. That much money would allow me to pay off my medical bills and still have enough left to help me pay the bills for the next 5 years.
Must be nice to be able to be insanely extravagent!
See if you guys had the same health care system we have here in Canada you wouldn’t have medical bills!
It would probably take longer to get treated but it’s a lot cheaper 😛
A guy at work had a nice plate in his office it went like this…
There are THREE kinds of work:
-Fast
-Cheap
-Well done
BUT you can only pick TWO
Fast & Cheap = it won’t be well done (think made in China)
Cheap & Well done = it won’t be fast
Well done & Fast = it won’t be cheap
J-F
pcp4me, Brian, all,
My guess is this thing will probably sell for 2 1/2 – 3 times the $85k. It’s the only one and a California resident will have it in his collection. Probably on the 1911 wall next to John Browning’s picture, opposit Charlton Heston’s favorite rifle, canon, Gatling gun, or what ever!
ka
BB and Lloyd: Some lively discussion over on the Yellow re the new Crosman EPCP product. Good mix of doom, gloom and a few rational posts thrown in for good measure.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1295244352/crosman+announcement
Brian,
I just read most of the postings on the Yellow. Shall we stop all inventions & developments because we first have to investigate whether or not it will invite legislation? If we go that route, we’d all be living the Amish lifestyle–nothing new could be invented because it might be bad. Somebody will always come up with a reason why something shouldn’t come to pass.
I wonder how many other new developments were relegated to the junk heap by these guys due to fear? And, how many of their fears actually were realized? To this day, I recall the hue and cry about .50 cal. airguns. It would invite registration of all airguns. Didn’t happen.
For those who fear, I’ll take rikib’s place and offer up these quotes:
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.–Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Do not fear–Lamentations 3:57 (the Bible)
Fear not–Isaiah 41:10 (the Bible)
There are others, but my time is limited today 🙂
Edith
Edith
Caveman # 1: “hmmm, fire not last long on one stick and usually burn out before find new stick, me think will make fire in big, hollow stone and throw in many stick to burn, fire last long time this way and make much time for finding new sticks”
Caveman # 2: “No, no! Many other cavemen from over large hill may see fire and come to take it. Much better to stay with one-stick idea”
Caveman # 2 was later reported lost while looking for another stick in the darkness, probably eaten by his close relatives, the dinosaurs.
PS those good, Amish folks to make some great jams & jellys though!
Given that any improvement in accuracy or consistency, no matter how small, can affect the outcome of a 10 meter AR competition at the highest level (the record is 600/600 + 103.6/109 on the finals set last October), I can imagine some efforts by FWB, Walther or Steyr to incorporate the control into a very high end match rifle. The 109 comes from the fact that the finals are 10 shots with 10.9 the max for a perfectly centered 10.
Now I’m not sure Lloyd’s invention will make a practical difference at the low energies of a 4.5mm match gun, but it’s clear that the horsepower race in match guns will continue. Lloyd, hope you’ll get part of the license fees, and I hope you own the patent!!
pete
Kevin,
What a beautiful handgun. I’d sell my truck to be the high bidder for that… except for one small detail… “SPECIAL NOTE: Because this gun is uniquely engraved, it is not on the California DOJ approved firearms list and may not be sold in that state.” Bummer. Hang on a second…
“Honey, you can stop throwing my clothes in the driveway now, they won’t let me buy it!”
ka
And at the current price of 82,000$ with 4 days of bidding left you better have one hell of a truck to sell!!!
JF
J-F’
Ha! Ha!, I didn’t see that! Insert “Honey, we need to refinance the house…”? 🙂
ka
82K is really out there. I wouldn’t pay that much if more money than I could spend.
But that’s just me.
Mike
BB is correct about the end cap on the TF79, it is ON THERE when under pressure. The de-gassing tool works very well to alleviate that problem.
PS the de-gassing tool doesn’t clear sidewheel scopes or I.R. scopes with the large knob on the left side. I welded 2″ of bar stock on mine to clear the scope.
Edith, the Amish do use technology , the last time I visited the sporting goods store a few miles from my house I was talking to an Amishman, he was there to buy some carbon fiber arrows for his compound bow.He was going deer hunting.
shaky,
Much depends on who’s head of their church. Some use cars, some use electricity, some use gas and some use cell phones. Years ago, there was a front-page article in the Baltimore Sun about an Amish man who took hunters on local bear-hunting trips. He had about a dozen beagles and a cell phone to help him run his business.
I’ve also seen local Amish people here in Texas who drive to/from the Walmart.
In my previous comment, I was speaking of the more traditional Amish who eschew modern conveniences.
Edith
I am curious, though…. do you know if they do that because they believe these things are inherently evil, or because they believe they present too much of a distraction to the holy life? Or another reason entirely?
Vince… Romans 12:2 admonishes “do not be conformed of this world”
Obviously, some Amish and Menonites take this admonishment to a far extreme however, one could pick that apart by asking them, how did you arrive at wearing the 18th century styled clothes? those were “modern” in their day, right?
I suspect you are right.
If a major disaster happened that disrupted transportation, what would we do since we rely on stores for our gas, food, etc.? The Amish are self sustained. Just a thought.
AR
True, but for how long? Lots and Lots of not the best people out there.
Mike
Mad Max & road warriors time… lot’s of ammo, water and 7 day food supply will get you started. The ammo will usually get you what you need by day 7.
“There are those who hoard gold and those who hoard guns, those with the guns soon have the gold too”
(not sure where I read this)
On a recent visit with my brother in Akron Ohio we visited an Amish gun store out in the country near Akron. They stocked more high end rifles and shotguns then I have seen in a while, and they seemed to be doing a brisk bu sines. With the parking lot outside half filled with horse & buggy vehicles. Don’t remember the name of the gun shop. Is there anybody here from that area that has seen this place. We also shot trap with some Amish the very next day. They are very nice people.
Bless you…would you like a tissue?
“eschew”, Bless you, get it? ha ha ha
A little airgun humor… very little
As near as I can figure it out the big difference is not in the using but in the owning. My brother drives some for an Amishman he uses a GPS and a cell phone but he doesn’t own them, just like he hires a car but doesn’t own one. The swartzentrubers are the really conservative ones they only use iron rims and kerosene lights on their buggies. Also close by is a tarp shop they have no electricity all their tools are pneumatic , they use a large diesel powered compressor to run everything .I guess as long as they know the rules thats all that counts.:-) 🙂
He obviously belonged to a Reformed congregation as oppposed to Conservative (well, Pete Z knows what I’m referring to). The Amish that use cars, cell phones and refrigerators and so on are typically Mennonites. I don’t pretend to fully understand their precepts other than “modern” life is not proscribed within their beliefs and practices – hence the horse and cart instead of the car.
A while ago, many of you, including BB, proclaimed “Qugley Down Under” to be a classic or at least a great movie. While I didn’t agree (other than Alan Rickman who played the bad guy, the acting was atrocious), I will putforth the movie, “Witness” with Harrison Ford. It deals with an Amish boy that witnessed a murder and Ford tries to protect him. Has a bit of insight into Amish life – maybe some of it is even correct, I can’t say for sure. Great movie – if you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend it. It does has profanity, blood and a very brief bit of nudity in it so be warned but, it was one of Ford’s better movies.
Fred PRoNJ
That Alan Rickman plays a wickedly good bad guy alright!
He did the same as the Euro-terrorist in the first Die-Hard movie which (coincidentally) also had a a LOT of marginal, if not bad acting.
Yes and that was his first major movie, played Hans Gruber. Tell your kids, he plays Severus Snape in the Harry Potter movies.
Fred PRoNJ
I knew that face was bugging me, Severus Snape eh!? The good/bad/good guy right?
Re more Quigley trivia… the bulk of bad acting was from Laura San Giacomo, who later played the foil to David Spade’s character on the NBC sit-com Just Shoot Me.
“Witness”
And Kelly McGillis (aka the fetching-flight instructor in Top Gun) played a wickedly good looking Amish gal in that movie!
Tim Allen and Kirsti Alley in “for richer or poor” did a great job as well!
ka
BB,
I am very sorry you aren’t able to be at the SHOT show. I can’t imagine how disappointing it must to have been involved with such a great new product and not be able to be at the unveiling of it!
Take care and get better!
AR
I knew Crosman was going to make a big announcement, but I never expected a large bore airgun. WOW
Well,Tom….you DID say the January announcement was big! Please note,I was patient….very patient.Looks like I need to make room for a couple MORE airgun calibers.I won’t be packing up all my DAQ’s just yet….but I am very excited.
BB,get well please! LLoyd,congrats! Unlike me,you made it happen.I have spent time,like a monkey sitting on a pile of stones…..staring at the striker of my Drozd,thinking it had much greater potential.Unlike you,that is as far as I went.Bravo!
B.B.,
So, am I correct that this rifle does not have a rail? It would be nice for shooting prone, or kneeling.
Also, my Gamo air-gun cleaning kit comes with a barrel cleaning solution of some kind, but doesn’t really say what it is. What is a good cleaning solution for an air-gun barrel? Is there something generic that I can readily buy?
Thanks,
Victor
Victor,
There is no rail on the TF 79 Competition rifle.
Since we don’t clean airgun barrels that much, there isn’t any good solution for cleaning them. If you ever want to clean the barrel I recommend using JB bore paste, then drying the barrel and not oiling it at all.
But a thin coat of oil does work in pneumatic barrels, so you can try that. It doesn’t add or detract.
B.B.
Victor there is plenty of “meat” on the lower portion of the TF79 fore-stock if you want to drill and mount a rail or assist device, likewise a bi-pod mount if you want.
Lloyd and B.B.,
Please accept my second to kevin’s most eloquent post praising both of you and Crosman for the Rogue. Pardon me for not being more alert when I posted this morning. My only excuse is the coffee hadn’t kicked in.
We all would have enjoyed the video of you behind the trigger shooting the Rouge at the Shot Show . I’m going to have to see what “Mom”, our name for Martin O’Malley, has to say about deer hunting with it in Maryland?
I’ve got to agree with Edith and am not going to worry that this rife will bring the wraith of the government down upon our sport.
Bruce
10 shots from a big-bore? I built one in 2008 getting 10 shots in .50 using only a 113cc reservoir. The Rogue will likely have twice the capacity. My last .50 gets 8 useful shots over a 1800psi range using only self-regulating effect. That’s at 300 ft-lbs. The middle 4 shots varied only 12fps.
Crosman’s electronic valve control effectively de-bounces the valve and hammer, this is the reason for the improved efficiency. With a fast & responsive enough valve actuator this system would indeed allow greater efficiency than in mechanically de-bounced big-bores. Only a chrono string will tell just how efficient the Rogue is, I eagerly await.
P.S. The great thing about efficient big-bores is that they needn’t be loud. De-bouncing a big-bore’s firing system can cut the report from an ear-ringing blast down to half. I forsee the Rogue being ear friendly!
Mister C.,
Good guess, but the Rogue has no “de-bouncer.” It uses technology never before tried on an airgun.
B.B.
Saw this quick “test drive” of the Rogue: https://www.americanairgunhunter.com/rouge.html
Good health to you B.B.
Ken,
Great link, thanks. That thing looks great. I had no idea the Rogue was a multi shot gun, WOW!
ka
speaking of e-triggers….
/product/benjamin-rogue-epcp-air-rifle?m=2399
I purchased a TF-79 a couple years back and after about 200 shots he trigger would release the hammer but he gun would not fire. Pyramid promptly replaced the defective 79 with another. This gun shot as expected for about 1000 rounds and then stopped working a few weeks ago with he same symptoms as the first. The warranty was long gone, so being somewhat of a self proclaimed air-smith from repairing and modifying paintball guns for many years, I disassembled the gun and oddly, found nothing obviously wrong. I reassembled only to have the same issue. Disassembled/reassemble, then repeat 4 more times, with each time a little more frustrating and me scrutinizing every part a bit more closely until I finally found the problem and corrected it. Quite a puzzling challenge for such a simple mechanism.
Anyway, when the gun was reassembled for the final time, I had replaced the factory O-rings with HNBR seals, polished all the moving internals and internally de-burred the breech and lower tube because the machining was a bit rough from the factory and the bolt was “scrutchy” feeling.
The surprise came when I shot over my chronograph and the TF79 which had always shot at around 600 fps was now shooting consistently near 950 fps,(946-954, low to high respectively, after 10 shots), at 70 deg F. I did NOT enlarge any ports or ream out any holes. The gun seems as quiet as it was before, (I don’t own a Db meter), it’s still at full power after 50+ shots on two 12 gr CO2’s, definitely smoother action, and the 5 shot group average remains about the same, around .030-.035.
I don’t know if every TF79 would achieve the same results, but I would be happy to perform this same service for any Tech Force or QB owners for a modest fee +S&H. This would also allow me to begin compiling a performance improvement data base to establish some benchmarks and averages.
Jeff,
You are on an old posting that few people ever read. Come to the current blog page and you can talk to tens of thousands of readers.
/blog//
Welcome to the blog!
B.B.