by B.B. Pelletier
Photos by Earl “Mac” McDonald
A couple months ago I told you that I lucked into another FWB 124 during a transaction at a gun store. The salesman owned it, but the seals had finally failed, as all original 124 seals will do. So, I bought that gun and resealed it as a report for you. Well, one of our readers happened to mention in passing that he had recently acquired an FWB 150 target rifle, but he really wanted a sporter to keep the squirrel population down. His gun was in good condition except that, like the 124, its seals had finally rotted.
I took the initiative and contacted the reader, asking if he would like to trade for an FWB 124. After I resealed it, it would be a fine gun again. With a modern seal, he would probably never have to worry about fixing it again. I reported on the results of that job in part 15 of the 124 report that has become the longest report I’ve ever done. Not only are modern seals made from everlasting material, but I installed a Maccari mainspring in the rifle that will probably last for the next 20 years. So, I hope the reader was happy with his new rifle, because I sure am pleased with the 150 he sent me.
FWB 150
A Feinwerkbau 150 is worth more than a 124 any day of the week, but this 150 also needed a reseal, so the first thing I did after examining it was send the action to Randy Bimrose in California. Randy is well-known for rebuilding 150s and 300s. He turned around the job in about three or four weeks. What he did was replace all seals, including the piston ring. That ring serves as the piston seal for the rifle. It’s supposed to be everlasting, but as long as he was inside and the cost was low, why not do it too? He also replaced the single mainspring.
Randy found a couple of washers missing, so he replaced them, as well. I probably wouldn’t have known they were missing, and the rifle might have still worked without them, but I’m glad he found them for me. Randy’s job, including return shipping, ran just under $200, so figure on that price for overhauling one of these recoilless sidelever target rifles. That expense was what leveled the trade I did with the customer. He got a working gun that had just been sealed, and I had to bear the expense of overhauling the rifle I got from him.
The FWB 150
The FWB 150 is a sidelever spring-piston rifle that uses a sledge system to allow the action to recoil inside the stock to counter the piston’s motion. The action slides rearward a fraction of an inch on steel rails when the gun fires, but the stock doesn’t move. Technically, the rifle does recoil, but the shooter doesn’t feel it, and the rifle behaves like it was held by the artillery hold. The result is greater accuracy but with a slight annoying feeling of the action coming back at you. You feel that in your sighting eye, when the rubber eyecup slides back.
The 150 is an evolution of the FWB 110, which is essentially the same rifle without the sledge anti-recoil system. A 110 is a rare model and highly coveted today because not many were made. A 150 is not rare, but they are very coveted, as well, for reasons that I will share with you in all three parts of this report. The first reason is the shape of the stock, which is a blend of both target and sporter. The 150 stock is sexier, to use a descriptive term, than a stock found on an FWB 300S, which is the older brother of this rifle.
There’s an older FWB 300 model that has no suffix, but it’s encountered less often. It’s basically a 150 with a few changes, though it has the same stock and single mainspring. The 300S is the more common 300-series rifle and is also much more common than the 150.
FWB 150 on top and the 300S below. This photo shows the difference in the shape of the two stocks. The 300S stock is much more angular and target-like. The 150 is more rounded and generally sportier.
From Daisy
Most, if not all, of the 150s that came into the U.S were branded with the Daisy name, as were many of the FWB 300-series guns. Daisy was always into target shooting and this was brought in at a time when the 853 single-stroke wasn’t even a gleam in an engineer’s eye.
The 150 has a single mainspring, like most spring-piston air rifles. The later 300S has two mainsprings. One is inside the other, and they’re wound in opposite directions. That’s supposed to cancel the torque of the spring when it decompresses at firing. I don’t notice the torque, but a serious competitor probably does.
The cocking arm, which is a sidelever on this rifle, doesn’t have a lock on the lever latch like the later FWB 300S. But the rifle cocks just as easily and the lever stays tight against the stock when not in use, so this isn’t a problem.
The sidelever has a latch but no locking tab. Note the Daisy brand on the receiver.
The sidelever on the FWB 300 has a locking tab.
Fatal flaws in the 150
Well, you already know about the seals, but there’s one more fatal flaw a 150 or 300 is likely to have. That would be a stock that’s cracked at the wrist. Feinwerkbau aligned the grain of the wood with the barrel, so it was very weak at the vertical grip, and probably more than half the rifles are broken there. The crack will always run from the front of the grip to the back and the fix is to screw and glue the stock together.
This flaw is so common that you should expect to see it. Look carefully at every 150 or 300 stock that comes your way and be prepared to use the crack as a bargaining chip. Don’t shy away from buying the rifle because of the crack, though. Most of the stocks I’ve seen with repairs were more solid than ones that had never been cracked in the first place. I lucked out in this regard, because my stock is whole.
The later 300S has two mainsprings. One is inside the other, and they’re wound in opposite directions.
Maybe one more thing to consider when buying one of these oldies is that many of them are missing the sights. Those vintage sights can cost almost as much as a rifle, so be sure to get them or have a fallback plan. The AirForce 10-meter sights would be one such plan.
Sights
Speaking of sights, this rifle did come with the correct target sights, plus an Anschütz add-on filtered rear aperture. I’ll show you the sights and all the related stuff in the accuracy report
Stock
The 150 stock is a target-type stock, as I’ve mentioned, but it is by no means as formal as the stock on the 300S. However, it does have an accessory rail that Victor will appreciate. The grip is more like a sporter grip and is most assuredly a right-hand-only affair, as is the butt. The wood FWB used is just one grade up from pallet wood and not good enough for cheap furniture. There are as many knots in the blond stock of this rifle as can be found on most Chinese sporters.
Notice the knot in the cheekpiece. This butt has several of them.
The Feinwerkbau 300S has a much nicer grade of wood. Note the sharper angles and steeper pistol grip, too.
Heavy!
A 150 with the barrel weight, which I haven’t mentioned yet, weighs at least 9.5 lbs. It’s longer than a 300S and heavier at the muzzle. Some are like me and feel it’s stabler because of this, but those who dislike muzzle heaviness don’t care for it.
Is the 150 longer than the 300S? You betcha! It actually has a longer receiver, as you can see below.
Clearly, the FWB 150 at the top is the longer rifle. Not only is the stock longer, the entire action is longer than the 300S below.
That’s as far as I’m going today. There are many more things to show, but they’ll have to wait for the next parts of this report.
I’d sure like to hear from 150 owners and even 110 owners on this report. Tell us your feelings about this classic target rifle.
I have been waiting until the weather is good to compair the FWB 150 against the FWB 110.That is not to say that I don’t shoot each rifle now.My vintage 10 meter guns are some of my favorites to shoot,but it really puts me on the spot to shoot well!
BB,you would be proud of me.I opened the HW 55T yesterday,only to find that I was the first one in there since 1970! The spring looked canted until I cleaned it off.That was some horrid grease they
slathered on everything back then.I will be back inside it again soon,but for now I deburred everything……I was shocked at how rustic the spring guide base was.Now it is smoothed,deburred and polished.It is really responding well to the attention.It has the monster 2lb barrel sleeve.After
shooting it,on a whim I picked up the Haenel 303 super to take a few shots.It almost flew out of my hands,it weighs so little compared to the HW 55! Travel safe!
Frank,
I know what you means about that grease! Even Robert Beeman though I was exaggerating when I said Weihrauch over-greased their actions, but what yo have seen was common in the ’70s and ’80s.
Good luck with that Tyrolean!
I don’t have the barrel weight on my CM, and it certainly makes a big difference. I’d rather have the weight.
B.B.
BB,I’ll bet there was at least a tablespoon of that horrid grease between the trigger group,spring and
inside the piston.I used Q-tips wetted with mineral spirits….it looked like bigfoot’s ear wax!
If I find I can get by without it (the 2lb barrel sleeve),I’ll let you know……maybe we can swap.
My core strength with the bad lumbar discs doesn’t agree with it….even though it works great to steady my wobble.
Frank B,
I must have missed this comment when you made it, but any time you want to swap that HW barrel sleeve let me know. I ought to have something that you would want.
B.B.
Back in 2011, I found a FWB 150 being sold on auction at Gunbroker.com. The seller did not offer any warranties as to its state of tune or the condition of its seals. He noted that it was shooting hard, but did not offer any details. The opening bid was some 400 bucks, and I put my bid in early. I was surprised that no one else bid on this spectacular 10-meter recoilless target rifle, so I ended up winning the bid. Recently one example sold for $685, again on Gunbroker.com. Considering that I won mine for much less than that, and it shoots as sweet and accurately as can be, I am lucky to have taken a risk bidding on it despite the lack of historical information. When I mounted a 6 to 12-power riflescope to it, and shot it in my 18-foot indoor range, the accuracy was unbelievable that punching 5-shot groups as small as a bug became monotonous occurrence. This one is a jewel.
I’m a former 300S owner — my first 10 gun; I am going to be looking to find one sometime this summer if the micro-local economy (my family’s, in other words) holds up, and am grateful for the tips on what to look for and what will certainly need fixing. Great guns! Thanks, BB!
I’d like to know the specs and performance a surviving one will deliver.
Pete,the 300s in good shape should be shooting 600 fps or a little more with pellets in the 7.9 gr range,with 10 meter accuracy around .08″ ctc or better in the right hands.I apparently DON’T have the right hands! The best model for ergonomics is the type 2 universal,IMHO.The stocks are from SILE of
Italy,have an accesory rail under the forend,should come with 2 cheekpieces,and a buutpad that adjusts vertically only.They have a long scope rail and mine came with a scope riser block.The trigger offers plenty of adjustment for position too.It’s a very nice airgun!
Frank
Do you happen to know who made the stocks for the Beeman R series rifles back when they had cut checkering? I’ve always been curious about that.
Luckily for me, I don’t own a match quality 10m rifle, which leaves me with most of my excuses intact. I did bid on a FWB 150, but had to sleep when the bid came up. I got ambushed, and beat by $5. Waaaaahh.
That is a real bummer.You really would enjoy shooting that 150 alot.How dare you fall asleep??
I don’t think I’ve ever known who made any of the R series stocks….except the Goudy laminates,which I happen to know firsthand are as beautiful as they are functional.The hand cut checkering on the R1 lasers is very sharp and grabby….everything pressed checkering isn’t.
Mr. Pelletier,
Thanks for the article on one of my favorites.
I’m sorry, but I need to disagree on a few things. While I’m no expert, I can say the 300S does not have one spring within another. You might be thinking of the FWB pistols that had dual springs for a time. The two 300S counter-wound springs are actually held end to end by a spacer, essentially making a spring about the length of the single 150 spring. Also, as far as I remember the 110 and 150 were introduced at the same time. The 110 was simply the cheaper option. Lastly, I have personally seen several dozen stocks with random grain orientation. I can’t say the stocks are more prone to breakage than any other match stock.
These were my own observations and of course others might be different.
Jim
Jim,
Okay, I’m seeing this for the first time today (May 11). So the springs are end-to-end, huh? That is news to me.
Well, I’m always learning. 🙂
B.B.
Has anyone seen the press release put out by the NRA regarding the Benjamin Marauder they’re giving away? If not, see it here:
http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=4824
This comment really bothers me:
“it’s fully capable in skilled hands of taking prairie dog- to fox-size game at or beyond 100 yards”
The NRA should know better!
Edith
Incidentally, on the link I provided, you can also make comments.
Edith
Mrs. Gaylord….Edith (I’m trying),
Thank you for this. Prairie dog yes, Fox out to 100 yards NO. Not with a .25 cal Marauder. Hope they change this. Very nice of them to give away a Marauder package like that though. Thank you NRA. Again.
kevin
Didn’t help that they posted it on April 1st…
My two cents.
The FWB 110/150/300 series guns are among my favorite to shoot. The recoil compensation/sledge system allows these guns to be accurate even in my hands. The action moving toward your eye at the end of the firing cycle is unnerving at first but you get used to it quickly.
These vintage guns seem to have grown lately in popularity since they’re easy to be accurate with, shoot hotter (600+fps without difficulty) than most 10 meter match guns allowing longer range shooting and aren’t hard to scope. You have to be careful about longer scopes interferring with the loading port though. The RT versions don’t have this problem since they were designed for scopes and the loading port is cut away even further allowing ease of sideloading. I’ve never shot any of my FWB 150’s or 300’s out to 100 yards but many owners have and their group sizes are impressive.
The wood on these guns varies wildly from ho hum plain jane to stunningly figured walnut. I have a FWB150 with a piece of walnut that approaches grade IV. The style of stocks also varies greatly. Sloped pistol grips, palm swells, vertical grips, adjustable cheek pieces, thumbholes (Running Target/Running Boar), tyroleans, etc. The adjustable cheek pieces are very beneficial if you plan to scope the gun since raising a scope well above the loading port for ease of loading a pellet requires a higher cheek rest. My FWB300 RT Thumbhole stock is uncomfortable to me. Fortunately there is also a vertical thumb rest built into the stock that is very comfortable.
The LOP (Length Of Pull) on all my FWB150’s is around 13 1/2″ vs. the FWB300’s that is around 13″. Another benefit in the FWB300’s is that the triggers are adjustable for length of pull and cant. The FWB150 triggers aren’t.
The gun in this series that fits me best and I enjoy shooting most is a sleeveless FWB150 in a tyrolean stock. That gun is a dream.
kevin
ps-The air arms falcon pellets shoot best in all of my fwb150/300 guns.
Kevin,hello and thank you for that! I will order some…..I am not yet satisfied with the pellets I have
tried thusfar.I envy you with that FWB 150 Tyro…..perhaps a picture when you have time??
Frank B.,
Pics sent to your email.
kevin
Lets say, for example, you have a couple acres of land around your house and there is a little creek running through it, and a pair of beavers damned up the creek and now you have an acre pond in your back yard. The city will do nothing because it is not causing any “major” problems. How would a person get the beavers off the property, without going to the rebar motel?
Gene,
Contact your state dept. of game & wildlife for free traps. When getting rid of any animal this time of year, remember that they may have babies and you could be removing or killing the mother of a litter.
Edith
Quietly, at night when they’re most active and quickly since you don’t want to have that portion of your land designated wetlands.
Gene,
There are legal issues to consider in answering your question. First, game regulations will differ from state to state (c.f. beaver season is year round with no limits in TN), so you’ll need to be cognizant of what the laws are for your area. Also, cities have their own set of regulations regarding what methods you can use to dispose of wild animals. So, Edith’s suggestion is a very good one.
Now, assuming that you have the proper forms and are adhering to the laws of the land in your area, Kevin is is right: do it at night. I have had little luck trapping them because like most wild animals they are pretty crafty. You’ll get more sleep with a trap, but there’s a learning curve. You’ll need to find their slides where they enter and exit the water and set the trap(s) there.
The method that I used on my parent’s land back in the day was to damage one of the dams in some way during the day, then set out with my 30-30 and shoot them when they came to repair it. This only really works well if you are out in the country and have understanding neighbors, which they do. I tried shooting them with shotguns and only managed to wound them, so the 30-30 was necessary. My FIL has killed them with a stout stick to the back of the head, but he’s way more of a woodsman than I am and can sneak up close more easily. Be warned that beaver are much bigger once they get out of the water, so make sure you have a good escape route. 🙂
BTW, BBQ beaver is supposed to be pretty good. My oldest brother had some once and said it was better than BBQ pork. Wouldn’t know myself.
Thanks guys/gal. It is for a cyber friend up in MA. He is having trouble with local and maybe the state. The city thinks it is not an issue to the public. He asked about using a pellet gun and I thought of y’all. He wants to trap them but the season ends today, and to get a special permit is difficult he is finding out.
A 30/30 !, I had no idea they are so tough of an animal.
I hear ya about wet lands, that is all he needs.
Gene,
Have him carefully check his local laws. There is often a clear difference between hunting, and eliminating “pests” that cause damage to property. He may find that he has full legal right to kill them with a pellet gun, since the flooding of his property is causing damage (killing grass areas or the like).
Where I live I could use an airgun or even a bow to take out pretty much anything that is damaging my property (including plants) because my local laws list the usual suspect pests followed by “etc.”, and then requires that one dispense them in the most humane manner practical – but firearms use in township limits are separately banned, so that is out.
Alan in MI
Bingo. Don’t know about MA but here we are allowed to destroy pests on our property. Year round. Discharging firearms within City limits is a no no but there are other ways. Beavers are just big, destructive rodents. I’ve fought them for years. I’ve never had a problem with them being a dangerous threat to humans since like most rats they scurry when they see or hear you. I did watch the movie Willard in my youth so…………..maybe?
kevin
But he’s got huge, sharp teeth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmu5sRIizdw
🙂
Bobby Nations,that was awesome.I forgot how funny that movie was.”I’ve soiled me armor!!”
“I’ve done it again” @ 1:47
🙂
Bobby
RUN AWAY!
Are beaver really potentially dangerous? I guess they could be with those teeth.
Matt61
I am a trapper and I’ve trapped beaver. The 330 conibear is the tool of choice but sometimes snares or footholds are used. Mostly beaver trapping is just plain hard work involving retrieving dead beavers, and lugging around heavy gear, but it can have it’s moments. Humane dispatch is the goal of the modern trapper,but stuff happens. Just imagine standing waist deep in near freezing water wearing chest waders, with a cornered, mad, 40-70 lb rodent wearing a trap or snare tethered with a piece of 1/8″ cable or # 9 wire,on the end of it that didn’t drown . Yeah, it can get real interesting in a hurry,Robert.
Wow, I didn’t know they had professional trappers since the Mountain Men. What is the 330 Connibear? Is that a mechanical trap?
Matt61
Matt: Yes, there are professional trappers and trappers who specialize in nuisance animal removal. In my state there are special requirements for trapper training before a license can be obtained. There is a course and a test. Nuisance trappers must have special separate license to take game animals out of season and must have and carry liability insurance.
The 330 conibear trap was invented by Frank Conibear as an alternative to foothold traps. It catches the animal ,in this case beaver, when it passes or tries to swim through the trap. They are a square shape,and made of heavy formed steel rod and kill the animal by catching it around the head and body when the wire trigger wire are pushed . The space inside the trap is 10×10″, and powerful wire springs power the traps scissor like jaws. The beaver is killed nearly instantly. They will break your hands and fingers if you make the mistake of setting one off by mistake, and it bites you. They make other smaller sizes for other animals,but the 330 is the biggest common size. The larger sizes are usually not allowed to be set on land do to danger to pets as they can be lethal. There’s a lot of training and careful work involved with modern trapping methods.
Trapping is a valid way to utilize a natural resource and is a great tool for wildlife management/predator control.It also provides supplemental income to folks in rural areas. I make a few dollars profit every year in my spare time. I use the money to buy fuel, gear , and licenses so that I can hunt and shoot more. You won’t get rich though, the beaver market in particular is poor. Ironically in MA, they did outlaw all steel traps about 20 years ago,falling for the arguments put forth by Miss-guided animal rights groups, who based their arguments on emotion rather than sound wildlife management practices. Because of this there has been a huge increase in species such as the beaver. The damage they are causing has that state re-thinking their policy on them.Robert
I would just undo the (damn) dam.
Worked pretty well at a friend property.
J-F
Gene,
I hope this reaches you before you take out the 30-30. You’re only truly safe solution is to hire a trapper. Check with any local exterminator business or even your government sources and ask for recommendations. It’ll cost you but if your current damage situation is so serious that you’re considering taking risks or having your property damaged it will be worth the bucks to hire a good trapper.
-Chuck
thanks guys. He is going by the law. First the locals have to have their say then he can get a special permit from the state for trapping.
I too think the combination sporter/target stock is highly sexy. It’s why I like the Ruger 10/22 light target/varmint and the tactical look generally.
I would have thought that a moving barrel would detract from accuracy by violating fixed geometry, however the 1911 has this design and is very accurate so maybe not.
What is the difference between two counterwound springs in tandem and one spring of the same length? I would guess that the counterwinding gives you more tension but having two springs instead of one doesn’t seem like an advantage. This reminds me of my Gladius springer design with chrome-silicon springs one of which is wound around the axis of the cocking lever for an effortless pull! Maybe this wouldn’t work but the chrome-silicon springs seem like a good idea instead of counterwinding and attaching regular springs in series.
Is moly-coating firearms bullets the same as lubing pellets do you suppose?
Matt61
I have been contemplating whether a few apropriately sized small ball bearings topped with a lubed washer inside the piston before the spring is inserted would be of any benefit?? If the spring was shortened just a little to accomodate them,a bearing race could even be added to the spring guide base without causing it to get coil bound.I’m sure someone has tried it.Hmmmn….
Frank,
A number of folks have tried using thrust bearings in springers with poor results. According to Russell Best, Time McMurray and others they eventually fail scattering their parts about the gun’s mechanism where they proceed to gouge and mutilate with each shot.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1001649473/I+need+advice+on+thrust+bearings+in+Springer+tune-
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1026108317/B18%2C21-22+Tune%2C+Thrust+Bearings-Washer%27s-
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1154484726/The+use+of+thrust+bearings+in+a+tune—-
Uh, “Time” == “Tim”. Sheesh.
Well thats not good at all.I will check out those links….
Two counterwound springs, end-to-end, gets rid of any tendency for the OVERALL spring to twist when compressed. The first half twists one direction, the other half twists in the opposite direction the same amount. The result is that the spring does not attempt to twist the action relative to the piston, and supposedly makes for a more stable platform (no torque reaction when fired).
Now that makes perfect sense.
Matt61
BB, If you still own your TS-45 compare the side lever on it with the one on your FWB-150. I think you’ll be as dumbfounded as I was! They might even interchange tho I no longer have a 150 for direct, side-by-side comparison. Cheers< Tom
For those of you who couldn’t make it to the airgun show in Arkansas…I spoke to Tom several times today, and he said it’s a good one. He bought a BSF model 70 first thing. He’s been wanting to buy this particular one for over a year!
Mac sold some things, too, and got an FWB 300 (I think).
I’m sure he’ll write up a nice review when he gets back.
Edith
Air force condor help. So I was shooting my new condor in .22 cal today. The second shot at the middle power setting sounded like my 22 mag rifle!! I was testing out some 14 grain pellets (I know they are on the light side for a magnum air rifle like this. My previous experiences with PCPs is with the Marauder). Is it normal to make such a loud super sonic crap? Car alarms almost went off, it was so loud! The temp is 49 degrees and the humidity is 87% right now if that helps.
Thank you!
Don’t shoot anything lighter than a Kodiak if you don’t want the supersonic crack. It will still be loud.
The AF rifles usually require a settling shot for the valve after a fill. The first shot is usually weaker than the ones to follow.
twotalon
Thanks for the help. At the lowest power setting, how fast will a 14 grain and 21 grain pellet go? I would test it myself but I don’t want to risk angering the neighbors again.
That is impossible to say, since no two rifles are the same.
There is one thing to watch for that you would not expect. You can’t set the power wheel to any particular place and expect the velocity to remain constant. As the tank pressure drops, the valve opens easier and for longer. The remaining pressure has longer to push a pellet and increases the velocity with every shot until you reach the point that the valve is running full open and velocity runs at max available with the remaining air pressure. Velocity declines from there as pressure runs down.
You will also reach max velocity below the max power wheel setting (usually). As an example, my Talon running on a Condor tank and hammer weight will max out velocity with a 190 bar fill with the power wheel at 6.0. Shoots a nice curve with Kodiaks with the wheel at 5.8. The only funadmental difference between a “Talondor” like mine and your Condor is the barrel length. Tuning adjustments would be different even with the same barrel length. Like I said, they are all different.
twotalon
Thank you for the info. When mine went supper sonic, it was filled at 2900 PSI. I knew these air guns are powerful but I had no idea until after the fact. I am going to chrony it with the Kodiaks and JSB Monsters at the lowest setting to get an idea what it will do.
When you run it over the chrono, try not to hit the pellet trap in exactly the same place too many times (if you use one).
Also watch the velocity. It should look low and erratic at first. Then show a slowly upward trend. Finally it will start turning on and can come to full power in just a few shots.
twotalon
An added thought…
If you want to quiet it down a lot without going to a silencer, you might try a CO2 setup or a Micrometer tank. Both will drop the velocity and noise a lot.
The CO2 setup will give you constant velocity. The Micro will shoot a slowly declining velocity. It will run at max velocity available from a micro with a standard Talon setup (no hammer weight) with the power wheel set all the way down. Cranking it up only beats the crap out of the firing mechanism and valve.
twotalon
I forgot to mention that it has a LDC. Without a pellet, all you hear is the hammer drop…defeats the purpose to have an LDC when it goes super sonic though.
In that case, you have the noise problem beat as long as you stay subsonic. As far as sucking air and trying to keep power levels lower you have other options.
I have to laugh about the movies that show someone shooting a revolver with a silencer. Just a little “putt”. Well, one hell of a lot of pressure escapes between the cylinder and the barrel and makes a horde of noise no matter if it shoots supersonic or not. Silenced rifles in the movies are equally as quiet. Even though the velocity is massively supersonic. What a joke.
twotalon
My goal with this condor is to achieve aside from quiet, is to find the sweet spot for consistent accuracy while staying in the 30 foot pound of energy or more for the most number of usable shots between fills. I have a major possum and coon problem, so having the power capability is a must.
That’s for sure lol. Except for the old gas sealed 1896 russian nagant revolver. It uses flush cartages and pushes the whole cylinder forward every time you pull the trigger. I also blame those movies and the idiots that thinks what is shown is a movie is factual information; in this case “silencers” (sounds just like the assault weapons’ term) that thinks that it completely emanates the report. And thus, they think should be heavily regulated under the NFA as they are now…talk about backwards firearm laws compared to European nations where you can walk down to the shop and buy a can like you can buy a scope.
If you want to get down to a pretty good count around 30 ft-lb then you might consider a Talon tank. Lose the hammer weight. It’s too much for a Talon valve.
I was getting about 960 fps with the 16 gr Exacts with the 24″ barrel and straight Talon power supply. Some guys report a lot more velocity, but I did not fool with the valve when changing barrels.
It is still touchy at 30 ft-lb with possums and coons. I would suggest staying at full Condor power for them.
twotalon
If it is more powerful than that, as long as it is accurate, it’s fine by me. I rather not do more than I have to do to it. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it. I like to keep it practical for me needs.
Practical is wacking them at full power. You do not need a big shot count for that. Not unless you have dozens every night. If you do, then send some of them my way. I need to kill something.
twotalon
Lee,
It sounds like you resolved your noise problem as going super-sonic. I have a Talon SS and when I first got it it was on CO2. I had issues getting good CO2 fills and reservations about shooting in cold weather, as CO2 is suseptible to cold weather. I decided to convert from CO2 to high pressure air (HPA). I definitely gained a lot more power (up from the 600s on CO2 to the high 800s-low 900s on air) but also gained more noise. It would be audible to the neighbors if I shot it outside.
-Chuck
Lee,
I forgot to mention mine is .177. I would imagine .22 being louder but no experience to back that up. I have a .22 Marauder and it is the quietest rifle I own. I think it would be undetectable by even the closest neighbors but I don’t intend to test that out.
-Chuck
I’ve yet to get to the range (current estimate is a prayer for the 30th but I had tried a few shots over the chonograph into a .22 rated bullet trap. VERY few shots as I was sitting in my doorway shooting at the closet 15 feet in — and I’m in an apartment complex in the middle of town (still surprised no police showed up).
I measured 1143fps for RWS Super-H-Point (14.5gr) (42ft-lb). Eun Jin 32.4gr pointed gave me 948fps (64.6ft-lb). This is with the control dial set to 8-0 (7-16, since the scale doesn’t start on 0).
Swapping to the Micro-Meter tank dropped those two (same dial setting) to 702fps/15.9ft-lb and 511fps/18.8ft-lb, respectively. With the Micro-Meter tank, and that dial setting I obtained:
(make)(style)(wt)(vel)(energy)
EJ pointed 32.4 511 18.8
EJ domed 28.5 554.6 19.5
H&N BarracudaMatch 21.1 619 18.2
H&N CrowMagnum 18.2 636 16.3
RWS MK 14.0 703 15.6
RWS SuperPoint 14.5 687 15.2
RWS S-H-P 14.5 702 15.9
Beeman H&N Match 13.0 727 15.2
Beeman Ramjet 16.0 680 16.4
I’ve not run a long sequence with a single pellet to determine the velocity curve points; the above may have just been single shot samples in which case I’m barely into the Micro-Meter shot capacity.
I’ve got too many guns that need sighting in at use-distance; and pumping them up at the range will take a good part of my time there. Especially the new Marauder (.177 — since I have the .22 Condor I wanted something for the heavier .177 pellets; my Gamo NRA 1000 shows a dislike the heavier pellets — 10.5gr only managed 709fps/11.7ft-lbs, whereas the 7-8gr pellets gave 850-925fps/13.3-14.1ft-lbs… the EJ 15.6 struggled for 528fps/9.7ft-lbs)
My local Wallyworld is remodelling.I just loaded up on wood finishing supplies.Everything from stains to lacquer to urethane to wipe on polyurethane…..at 80% off!!It may be worth a trip if you have any interest in stock finishing.Your local store may be doing the same thing.I even got a Wagner heat gun
for $5.
Frank B
Time to get to work and show us some projects.
Today I’m trying wipe on poly on a Maccari do it yourself FWB 124 Tyrolean blank in Florida walnut.
The back end and cheekpiece really capture the lines of the HW 55’s Tyrolean stock nicely.The walnut
is without flashiness,and that really sets off the sweet classic lines.This may become the testbed for learning cut checkering…..if I can screw up the nerve.I would of course begin with the bottom forend
because it is nice and flat……maybe a good place to learn.I’m sure I could remove a 1/16″ if I screw it all up.So far I have done 3 stocks,2 were Tyro’s and one was an over the top Himilayan walnut “marblecake” Exibition grade FWB 124 stock.For some reason that was my very first DIY stock.
I have to say it came out pretty good anyway.I’ll keep you posted.
jimdavis,
I have an important update for you if you’re still reading.
I noticed the Beeman peep sight fits slightly canted on my Bronco. I think it has something to do with the thickness of the right clamping bracket. I don’t know if there is anything I can do about it but I’m going to try. It doesn’t affect accuracy except it’s annoying to see the adjustment bar not exactly level. Incidentally, I couldn’t find the Beeman sight on the PA site. They must have dropped it for some reason or my search technique is lacking.
Anyway, I did a search on the blog for BB’s review of the Bronco to see what he used to see if I had an alternative. He used a Mendoza and he could NOT get it adjusted down far enough. So there is a credible negative peep evaluation right there. He then tried a Crosman peep but he ended up carving a notch in the stock so that the sight bracket would lower into it during adjustment.
I do know I can get my Beeman peep adjusted low enough as I described in my previous comment so it looks like a crap shoot as to what model peep you can get to work. One suggestion was to lengthen the front sight to compensate but I don’t know what materials could be used. The front sight is removable. Maybe someone here can let us know if they were successful in doing this.
I hope I haven’t misled you. If so I apologize deeply.
-Chuck
jimdavis,
I finally found it on PA’s site and it has been discontinued. It is called the Beeman Sport Aperture Sight. Maybe you can find it somewhere else.
-Chuck
Chuck & Jim.
The Beeman aperature is a Williams sight, you can get them anywhere Williams sights are sold. They come in two different hights, they have them at Brownell’s labelled for 22 cal. rifles
Chuck & Loren,
Have you looked at this sight:
/product/air-venturi-williams-64-peep-sight?a=5
Edith
Edith,
Yes that sight is for the Benjamin 392 & 397 and Sheridan 5mm. I guess Pyramyd droped the Crosman (Williams) dovetail sight.
Loren
That model Williams peep is only for the Sheridan and some Benji pumpers. You often need a higher front sight on some Benji pumpers to get it sighted in at 10 meters. You also can buy the Williams peep sights directly from Williams Gun Sights. You can make a riser out of a piece of flat ,square plastic or key stock using a round file and a six inch mill file,Robert.
By the way, on front sight ramps that screw on , you can temporarily raise the ramp by using longer screws and small O-rings to experiment with the height. Then measure and make your finished spacer to achieve the correct ht.
ith,
I think the Crosman/Williams site might be the one Tom tried to use on his Bronco and ended up cutting that slot in the stock to make it work.
-Chuck
Loren,
I looked at the Williams sight that PA has and it doesn’t look like my Beeman. It is significantly different. I’d be a little leary about buying that Williams because of that. I did find another site that has the Beeman Aperture Sport sight and were supposed to have some in stock as of today (they aren’t there yet) .
-Chuck
Kevin or any…
Got my new R7 and have a slight problem.
There is some droop. There is clearly a gap in the breech and seems to be caused by seal thickness. The scope is heavily shimmed on the rear ring and the scope tube may be bent. Came from PA this way.
Question is… can the breech seal be removed by hooking it out like most breakers? That funny nut or whatever in the breech block has me spooked.
The bore is also very rough. I expect a tendency for it to lead up. Have it polished up some but it will never be slick.
twotalon
twotalon,
The breech seal in R7’s is as easy or easier than most since it’s synthetic. Yes, as you said, “hooking it out” is the way to remove it. Not sure what you mean when you say “funny nut or whatever in the breech block has me spooked”. Are you referring to the ball detent below the seal? If so, ignore it. It will not interfere with your seal replacement.
Once you’ve replaced the breech seal shoot the gun and the rifling should smooth out. If it doesn’t use mothers mag instead of JB Bore paste to polish/scrub the bore.
How much of a shim and what material was used at the rear of the scope? Is the scope tube bent/indented?
kevin
Kevin,I think he’s referring to the new way they are fastening the barrel into the baseblock.The R7
sure has changed a bunch.I’m going to try the Mothers mag on a barrel per your recomending it.I see you got another Burris Timberline.I still need to try one out.
Frank B.,
The new nut is new to me. Interesting. Keep an eye for an email from me.
kevin
There is a funny looking nut around the breech seal in a detent. I have no idea what it’s for. Maybe for holding the barrel in the breech block.
Those freaking plastic breech seals really bug me. They induce too much droop over O rings.
I used JB Bore Brite with both a brush and a bunch of patches. It’s much better than original. The top of the rifling lands are rough. Pellets pushed through have a dirty or very gritty feel. No terribly loose or tight spots. Just rough. Not the worst I have seen, and far from the best.
The bore is just a bit looser than my 97K and R9. Both can use the same pellets. The R7 seems to want about .01mm more pellet. Not a problem.
Don’t know if the scope is bent for sure, but there is a lot of shim of some kind under the scope at the back. I don’t like this for a number of reasons.
Have shot it a little and it does not do too bad. I would cut it off at about 30 yds since it is much slower than most of my other rifles. Looks like minute of starling within that range without a problem. The chrono sheet from PA shows that it is running about right. Have not done my own chrono on it yet.
Thanks. You are the one who looks like John Elway, right? You can’t be all bad.
twotalon
twotalon,
Sorry for my ignorance about this new nut in the breech seal area. If the lockup upon closing the barrel doesn’t seem tight then the synthetic seal is standing too proud. Warm the seal with a hair dryer or carefully with a torch (you just want it warm not hot) and then close the breech. Let cool and see if the lockup is tight. If not apply more warmth (not heat) and repeat.
Don’t overlook the jsb exact pellets (in the blue tin) for long distance shooting since I assume your R7 is in .177 cal. They have done well in most of my R7’s.
kevin
Thanks.
I have an old tin of the light exacts with blue writing somewhere. Have not tried them. Have not tried the RS from JSB. Have two tins of FTT that are supposed to be 4.50 but are closer to 4.51. They fit nice.
So far seems to work pretty well with 8.4 exacts, FTT, and CPL. Have not determined yet which is best.
Most fit a little looser than I like. The CPL and the wrong size FTT seem good. I like the idea of pellets not falling out when I close the breech. A bit of resistance when loading makes me happy. Have to try some FTT in 4.52 that I have. Too tight in the other HW’s, but might do in the R7. It seems to want about 4.51.
twotalon
I would take a very close look at that scope to check for damage. If there is any, I would send the whole shebang back. All the HW breakbarrels I have played with have had really tight lock ups and very little or no droop. Hows the lock up/droop on the R9?
The droop would be no big deal if you were using open sights, but with a scope it is more so of course. Maybe you’ll have better luck with the next one.
The only breech problem is the thick plastic seal. I am going to shoot it some more, then yank the seal and replace it with a rubber O ring.
The R9 has no detectable droop with a level. The scope was centered before installation and was less than 2″ off at 25yds.
twotalon
Kevin; Not to hijack the replies between you and TT, but I was wondering about the proud seal in TT’s R-7. What about just skimming the original face of the seal a bit and then turning it around?
The problem with plastic breech seals is that they need to fit very close to right in the first place. They do not squish down like a rubber seal. Much better to use rubber and let it “self fit”.
I expect to need to make some shims. I have an assortment of thin nylon washers from Lowes that are also two different thicknesses. It will be an afternoon job.
It is possible that using two o rings may work, but I will have to try it to find out. Depends on how deep of a hole I have to fill.
The face of the power plant side is very smooth, so a seal is not going to wear itself down from repeated rubbing.
twotalon
OK…
I hooked out the seal and it still won’t close.
Took the stock off and looked at the cocking linkage. The cocking link is bottoming out in two places. There is just not enough play in the link to let it close right.
The link (rear) bottoms against the retaining pin that it is supposed to rub against and the bottom side of the breech block. This amounts to a mechanical obstruction. A couple thou of metal removal in the right place should fix it, provided the seal is not going to be too thick anyway. The seal is much softer than other plastic seals I have looked at.
twotalon
Looks like you’ve got a handle on the problem. FWIW, I saw some homemade seals for R-series guns that were made from urethane (I think?) tubing, cut on a lathe. I have also noticed that HW breech seals were soft. The original as well as the factory replacement one on my R-10 is made of a soft white material The one on the R-9 clone, an RWS 320 is a hard material.I have often wondered if a square edged quad seal and shim (s) wouldn’t work in a pinch. Good luck,Robert.
I think I will leave it alone for right now. If I fix it I will have to dick with the scope.
Right now the scope is working and zeroed. No apparent seal leaks since the test sheet looked normal.
An interesting note…it makes a pleasant sounding little buzz when fired. Not sure if it is the scope or the rifle. If the buzz were much higher pitched it would be a ping. It’s not the characteristic lower pitched buzz a springer usually makes.
twotalon
Everyone,
If you missed the Arkansas show this year you missed out on a great chance to get a 10-meter target rifle for cheap. Scott Pilkington brought dozens of FWb 300s and Walther LGRs and is selling them for killer low prices! I’m talking way under $250 for a working target rifle.
Mac bought a couple. I will show you on Monday’s blog.
B.B.
BB
Under $250 for an FWB 300?! That is really amazing. Of course it would cost me twice that to drive there and back. I’ve gotta figure out a way to write off that mileage. Happy hunting, and have fun!
SL,
Mac is driving 3,000 miles on his trip. And in the fall when I go back to Roanoke, I drive 2,500 miles. There are guys here from Chicago, Nebraska, New Mexico and South Carolina, and they didn’t find the drive to be too far. It’s a matter of arranging priorities and what is important to the person making the decision.
B.B.
I have a question but first I will tell you the story. A couple of years ago I purchased a Winchester 1000X with the walnut stock. It has always felt awful to cock and shoot. When cocking it is if I can feel each coil of the spring rubbing on the tube as it is compressed. When firing, it reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoon with the hillbillies.When they would fire, their flintlocks would vibrate for a couple of seconds and then the projectile would exit the barrel. Anyway I pulled this thing out of the closet the other day and gave it another chance. It is just as bad as I remember. I took the works out of the stock and saw that there is NO lube on the spring. I mean nothing. Does anyone know if this is the way this gun is suppose to be? There is also no lube on the trigger assembly either and it feels creepy. The gun appears to be put together fairly well and the walnut stock is nice. Should I attempt to lube or tune this thing or would that be like trying to polish a turd? Thanks ! Toby
I have gotten some dry ones too.
If you tear it down, clean the dirt out, and slap some moly on the parts that can rub anything it should help some. Same with the trigger. Clean out the dirt and give it some moly.
Even ordinary grease would improve it.
Dirt and dry parts eat each other up.
twotalon
twotalon, Thanks for the reply. The moly I have is what I use when I rebuild engines, I guess that would work. I am glad you gave me advice instead of telling me it is a turd. I will give it the clean and lube treatment a try.( it may still turn out to be a turd, lol) Toby
Toby T.,
Just because a car has a nice paint job and a fresh wax job doesn’t mean it runs. Once you open the hood it will give you an indication as to how it COULD run. But unless you rebuild the engine (internals of an airgun) and give it proper lube you’re not really giving it a chance. Would you agree?
It still stings to remember the times that I got beat by rust buckets because I assumed they were turds just because of how they looked on the outside.
Now I admire airgunners that spend time finding an accurate barrel then fitting/blueprinting the internals of airguns and leave the outside stock. Reminds me of early drag racing lessons when they outshoot everyone that snickered at what they brought.
kevin
Kevin, I get your point and agree. I still own the rust bucket that use to beat the shiny cars. Now that rust bucket runs and looks good. I have never disassembled and worked on an airgun before so this will be a first. Thanks for your comparison with cars. What is under the hood and drive train make all the difference in the world. Toby
Toby T.,
I get the impression you’re very handy and with the right instructions are ready to go inside your spring gun. If so, then this 13 part series of instructions by B.B. may be helpful:
/blog/2006/08/spring-gun-tune-part-13-range-testing-the-r1-we-tuned/
kevin
Kevin, Thanks, that will certainly help. I figure if I get stuck I can post a question on this blog. (lots of helpful people) First I think I will shoot a group of it’s favorite pellet over the crony so I can make a comparison after the work is done. Thanks again. Toby
Wulfraed, I guess there really is hope for this rifle. Thanks for the inspiration! Toby
Well… if nothing else works, you can soak the the moving parts in clear epoxy, then take a metal cutting disk and slice it in half muzzle to recoil pad, splitting down the sight line… then polish and mount the halves as “the workings of a spring/air pellet rifle”, and sell the two halves on eBay…
Okay, now this guy knows how to work a bolt-action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE4J2acE8Z0&feature=related
I’ve never seen better. What is with the chickenwing comment that I’ve seen elsewhere. Both David Tubb and Clint Fowler who is a two-time winner of the Nathan Hale trophy which I think is the award for the highest civilian shooter at Camp Perry both advise a high elbow with the rear arm for offhand.
Matt61
Matt,
That “chicken-wing” hold is a classic target-style hold and all the better shots use it. But the deer-hunters are not target shooters, so to them it looks strange.
The guy is very good, but it is the rifle that makes what he is doing possible. The old Krag action is even smoother, but it only holds five rounds, so the SMLE wins overall.
B.B.
Yes, after watching this guy I would say that any smooth action based on the Mauser design whether it is a Colt Sauer, Remington, or whatever pales in comparison. I believe this is because of a shorter retraction of the bolt and the cock on closing that allows you to close the bolt with the force of your arm and momentum.
I had a look at the Schmidt Rubin M31 Swiss rifle. So for the straight pull, how do you unlock the lugs that hold the bolt in place? A turn bolt does this with the rotation of the bolt handle I believe. For the straight pull, does the handle swing in the horizontal plane? I couldn’t see from the video. Something on the bolt must move.
Matt61
Mat,
The Schmidt-Rubin bolt has a helical slot in it. As the bolt handle is pulled back, the bolt body rotates and turns the locking lugs out of their recesses.
B.B.
Yes, he’s pretty good. However, at the same link, there’s a guy with a red beret that is better. He keeps the rifle on his shoulder. The higher elbow works. We used to tell the new shooters, “The higher the elbow, the higher the score. It also helps if you lock in with a sling. But, you knew that!
Mike
Mike, yes, I’ve seen that fellow with the red or maroon beret. Isn’t that for paratroopers. I agree that he is better about keeping the rifle on the shoulder and faster overall with the magazine. But the actual bolt operation itself does not seem to me quite at the level of the first guy who just flicks his wrist. The beret fellow is kind of a wild one. There’s another video of him emptying a Luger and shouting, “Take that you Jerry —–.”
YouTube is so much fun. It’s a dominant part of my weekend, especially with my rc fleet under repair and myself waiting for more ammo and targets from PA.
Matt61
Happy to see that some who hinted at leaving are still here 🙂 Sometimes we just need to take a break.
Because when you have millions of people with this kind of need for gratification, and the culture is saying that it’s possible for everyone to satisfy all of their needs and desires all of the time, there are obviously going to be clashes – clashes of ego.
Taylor Hackford
rikib 🙂
Dear Sir,
I am from India. I have decided to buy an TX200 (earlier it was a tie between the RWS 48 and TX). As i will need a scope on the TX, i am in dilemma . I need a a scope with the followings compulsorily
a. AO
b. Variable magnification
c. Integral Sunshade
d. Budget: up to 100$
I could have found the above through on-line research but only practical experience could tell whether it will
1. Create problem such as difficulty in loading pellet, cocking, weight (other problems i dont know about)
2. be Air gun worthy (should be able to handle the heaviest of recoil)
3. last for years
I am asking these because it could be my only scope for another 10 years (Its difficult to import a rifle scope in India)
I have shortlisted
/product/leapers-3-9×32-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa-1-tube?a=2853
/product/utg-3-9×50-ao-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa-1-tube?a=658
Will it be the right scope considering the above criteria?
Also suggest a worthy mount for it (is single piece mount better?)
Thanks for your valuable time and suggetion
Indian reader,
Both scopes will work for you, as you indicate, but I would select the one with the 50 mm objective, as it is the brightest of the two. The TX 200 is so smooth that there should be no problem from recoil. A Diana 48 would have been harder on a scope, but either of these scopes should be able to take its recoil and vibration, as well.
However, there is no guarantee with any optical instrument that there will not be problems. Scopes do break, and even the finest that cost 15 times as much as these two are known to fail. However, most problems that result from a scope are not due to breakage, but from adjusting the vertical reticle too high. All air rifles are subject to barrel droop, which means the barrel is pointing down in relation to the scope. When that happens, the owner adjusts the vertical reticle too high to compensate and the scope gets out of its comfort zone. Then you get a scope that shifts groups from place to place and won’t hold zero When that happens, the cure is to angle the scope downward with a drooper mount.
But you have selected a TX 200 which is not known for drooping, so you should be okay.
B.B.
Dear Sir,
Thank you for the super quick response. Thank you for the valuable info. I am being this choosy so that this the scope i choose should be suitable any other AG i buy in near future.
By the way which mounts would you suggest for droop compensation so that i am ready for it before hand.
Thanks again
You have chosen wisely. A TX200 is better than the Diana 48 in every conceivable way. The only edge the 48 has is open sights. To stretch the legs on either gun most folks will need a scope anyway.
As far as the scope is concerned, adjustable objective (AO), or adjustable paralax is a must IMO. Side wheel AO is alot more convenient. Leapers makes very good, strong scopes for the money, Leapers makes the Centerpoint brand of scopes as well.
I like this one as it has a better lock down mechanism for locking the turrets:
/product/centerpoint-optics-adventure-class-4-16x40ao-rifle-scope-w-free?a=2566
Keep in mind that the TX has 11mm dovetails, and not weaver mounts. So if you want to use the weaver rings that sometimes come with the scope, you will need a dovetail to weaver adapter.
Slinging Lead,
I have both the TX200 and the RWS 54. IMHO the 54 is every bit as fine a rifle as the TX and slightly more acurate, although not as pretty. Yes I would have to say the 54 is my favorite spring rifle.But she did eat one of my center point 4×16 scopes.
Loren
Loren,
Did CenterPoint/Crosman take care of replacing/repairing your scope?
Edith
Edith
No I didn’t do anything about the warranty since I have used the scope a lot and it was good while it lasted. Now I think I’ll cut it apart to see what failed, and how it’s put together.
Loren
Look in the front end. You will probably see a big coil spring between the lens and a shoulder it should be sitting against at the rear of the spring. Except for one problem…the spring jumps off the shoulder and starts working its way down the tube cockeyed.
twotalon
twotalon,
Yep thats what it looks like, looks like a cockeyed lens in there to. In the Air Force we called it NDI (non distructive testing) but I don’t think that will work here.
Loren
Loren
I wasn’t trying to disparage Diana air rifles. I have a 52 that I am very fond of. It is very powerful, very smooth considering the power, and yes very accurate as well. I will not be letting it out of my paws anytime soon.
However, I stand firm in my comparison with the TX200. From the buttoning of the piston from the factory, to the flawless black chrome finish of the bluing, to the baffled Lothar Walther barrel, the TX has it all over the Diana, especially the ones with the Chinese-made barrels. Also I am not a fan of the bolted-on scope rail. In addition, the 48 our Indian friend was referring to is not a 54. While the action is essentially the same, the 54 has the sledge system which minimizes recoil, lending an extra measure of accuracy. On the cosmetics front, the 54 also has a fancier stock. The 48’s stock has nice attractive lines, but is very plain jane.
Anyway, that’s my slightly opinionated opinion. I’m not trying to talk you out of liking your 54, in fact I’m sort of glad you prefer it. Different smokes for different folks. Don’t forget the safety glasses when you cut into that scope.
S.L.,
What? No mention of fish-scale checkering?
You’re definitely losing your edge…
– Orin
Reader from India,
The first scope you mention does not have AO, not good on your tx200. Your other choice should be just fine. You can use Leapers Accushot 1 in. rings,get the high rings since you will need them with that 50mm objective. These rings have a built in stop pin to keep scope from sliding from recoil.
Loren
Thanks Loren, Slinging Lead, Edith and all others for helping me out.
New and off topic – a buddy just sent me some photos of a S and W that blew up when loaded with some Chinese made ammunition. Seems that the fired round set off two adjacent rounds in the cylinder and the cylinder blew up. BB, I’ll forward this e-mail with the photos to you. Has anyone ever heard of this? BB, perhaps you can give your editor at Shotgun News a call and see if this is genuine?
Fred PRoNJ
Fred,
Got your email & responded already. Here’s the short version:
These images have been circulating since 2007 and were supposedly from using double powder loads in handloaded ammo.
Edith
The April podcast is now available. It’s a little different this month, but I think you’ll like it.
Edith
Terrific podcast. Thanks Tom and thanks much Mac. I’ve never seen a FWB RT Tyro. What a find! Kudos to you for always being on the lookout for the little diana’s in order to pass them along to kids (with their parents permission).
I strongly believe it’s important to instill a respect of guns in every kid, teach them gun safety and guide them to learn how to shoot accurately. I’m graduating a group of kids this summer from airguns to rimfires.
kevin
Great podcast B.B. and Mac,
Thanks for sharing those stories with us. I particularly like the one about mini-sniping, which I have never heard of. Sounds like fun.
Lloyd
Matt,
Well, God has ears and a sence of humor 🙂
You remember not long ago we were talking about girls at the range? So it happened. I took three opposite sex shooters to the range. All three of them were completely uneducated in a ways of guns but they learned very fast.
Guns present were my Izh-60 fitted with BI-series diopter sights and 2 handguns – Gamo R-77 and MP-651 revolvers. Distance – 10 m air pistol range.
After a quick presentation on safety, how to hold, what to cock and what and how to pull they made a couple of shots from all 3 guns down the 25 m range just to get acquainted with the noise and made some shots from my “shillelagh” using soft rest to learn breath control and trigger pull technique. Wonders began – one of them made a perfect “cloverleaf” 3-pellets group in my typical half-inch target.
Then we moved to 10 m standing and fun started.
They weren’t much of a snipers with pistols – but to shoot a full cylinder (8 pellets) into 2,5 inch circle is satisfactory IMO. “I love pistols! I love pistols!”. However they made some sci-fi with Izh-60, as one of them made 1/2 inch 5-shot group standing and other made the same with one flyer, making it 3/4 inch group. “Rifle is easy!”. That was THE first time they took a gun.
Guys, I think we must all keep our women away from our guns as I fear they they all involved in dark conpiracy to best us.
duskwight
duskwight,
I wish I could get three girls to follow me around. 🙂 But look at it this way, you’ve educated some very fine people on gun safety and who knows how much of a positive impact you’ve made on them and the friends they will tell their story to. You’ve shown them that guns aren’t evil monsters, and hopefully have created more support for gun rights. You might have even saved their lives as, some day, they may encounter a loaded gun situation and now they’ll know how to approach it to avoid accidental discharge. Good job.
-Chuck
Chuck,
“I wish I could get three girls to follow me around” – I learned snake charming to do that 😉
duskwight
Chuck
I often have girls following me around– when their cat food bowl is empty.
Good work duskwight. If only everyone had someone so kind and knowledgeable to get them started in the great sport of shooting.
duskwight,
I don’t suppose there is a correspondence course for snake charming, is there?
-Chuck
duskwight,
Women are the equal to men in competitive marksmanship. When I competed in CA, Karen Monez won the 4 position state championship at least 4 years straight with the exact same score of 797 out of 800, usually cleaning the offhand position. Mary Stidworthy is one of the very few prone shooters to have won the Nationals at Camp Perry with a 6400 out of 6400 over 4 days of shooting. Sherri Lewellen won the 4 position nationals at least 3 times, losing only time in a 4 year stretch because her rifle malfunctioned, failing to allow her to complete the match, and yet, she still beat most men. Also, during the 60’s and early 70’s, Margaret Murdoch was one of the best international shooters in the world, medaling in the Olympics, among other world class championships.
I use this fact (that women can beat men) to keep competitive marksmanship alive where I once lived and competed. I’m still heavily involved in keeping a junior marksmanship program alive. They’ve closed the range, but are seriously considering an air-gun program. I’ve proposed the following to the city administrator and Director of Sports and Recreation:
1. 10-meter precision offhand.
2. 10-meter precision 3 position.
3. Sporter Class.
4. Field Target.
The Director of Sports and Recreation liked my proposal, and asked to present it to the elected officials. He’s also asked to use me as a resource for all of this because of my background. My long term hopes are that they eventually do all of this, AND bring back the small-bore program. At present, the City is undecided as to what they want to do with the smallbore rifles.
Unfortunately, very few understand competitive marksmanship, and there are a lot of misconceptions, including that shooting is a “mans sport”. Another misconception is that shooting is dangerous. Guns are less dangerous than driving a car, or using tools, in my opinion. The ranges that I shot in had spotless safety records over many decades. I think of guns as a great way to teach pro-active responsibility. As I’ve told the City many times, residents of any city will buy guns (firearms and air-guns) every year. The questions, how many will ever learn to use them safely?
Victor
Victor,
In fact, women surpass men in many aspects of shooting. They are calmer, more patient and quicker to learn have better body/space control and get tired slower. However they need to train more frequently, despite their calmness they are more prone to depression, they have worse forward vision and their gentle frame and shallow breath makes them less stable gun platform.
God balanced us very well.
Tell those red-tapists that shooting is for any human being having eye and an arm with a thumb and a finger 🙂 Maybe you should tell them it’s a great sport for those who are in a wheelchair – fresh air, bright sun, good company and a goal to go forward to. That combination revives men and women alike.
And I think girls must shoot – it’s beautiful and its fun. Maybe that’ll drive boys from PS and PC and make them men.
I wish you all the luck possible in your noble quest. Shoot the dragon of human stupidity right between the eyes!
duskwight
duskwight,
Regarding shooting for the handicapped. That’s a very good point. In fact, one point that I made to the Director of Parks and Recreation was that, if done right, the shooting program and facilities can be very attractive for adults. The trick is to make it fun, which I think that Field Target can do.
I also relayed the fact that in some countries with strict gun laws, air-rifles ranges are almost as common as bowling alleys, something that a buddy of mine who coaches American teams told me. Of course, he also told me how strict they are about even seemingly minor infractions. In any case, it’s important to understand that people in Europe and other places take their air-gun and small-bore rifle shooting very seriously.
My approach this time around with the City is to try to reach out to more of the community, as oppose to just trying to save the junior marksmanship program. My hopes are that if I can make competitive shooting more accessible and fun to the general public, then I might garner great support from the community.
You see, the truth of the matter is that almost everyone lots to shoot. I can’t imagine a kid who did not get a kick out of shooting a gun and hitting their mark. Many a proud moment has been experienced since the dawn of man. There is a reason why shooting is considered an Olympic sport. It goes back even before the advent of the gun, to the time of more primitive hunting methods. Everyone loves to shoot, but most grow up thinking that that air-gun that they got for Christmas was something that they out-grew. NOT TRUE! If cities did not have an outlet, like organized teams and parks, kids would feel EXACTLY the same about the baseball bat and glove that they got for Christmas. What’s lacking with guns is NOT interest. What’s lacking is support via programs and facilities. THIS is the point that I’m trying to make, and the Director of Sports and Recreation seems to grasp the concept. That’s why I’m hopeful. I was blessed to have been offered an opportunity to compete in target shooting. I realize that it’s a unique and almost rare opportunity, but I also believe that it doesn’t have to be that way. That’s why Sporter Class was created, to make competitive marksmanship accessible to most.
Would it be cool if one day air-gun ranges were as common as bowling alleys in the US? It’s good to want things. It’s good to dream. Anything that we can conceive, and believe, we can achieve.
Victor
Women and girls can shoot shoulder to shoulder with men and boys, and the women can win a goodly share of medals. I think the reason that the Olympics went to men’s and women’s AP and AR from the earlier combined competition was to make sure that men got more medals — Victor is my ancient memory right on this?
Just this past week at the Korean ISSF World Cup Sweden’s Jonas Jacobson, a winner of 25 Paralympic medals, 16 gold, qualified for the finals in 50 m men’s prone. He didn’t quite make it to an Olympic quota this time, but pretty clearly he will have one by the end of the World Cup season. Victor, this might be a useful line with your civic authorities: not only can wheel chair users shoot in Paralympic sports, in the right disciplines they can win against non-disabled athletes, shoulder to shoulder. I was awestruck to watch Jacobson.
-pete
Pete,
I agree that this point about disabled athletes is worth making. A couple years ago, I was introduced to an American shooter, Joshua Olson, who is building up a set of accomplishments of his own. In 2004, he became the first athlete with a physical disability to be nominated to the Army’s World Class Athlete program, six months after receiving a Purple Heart. Also, a U.S. Paralympics Shooting National Team exists, and can provide a great incentive for those who might never have considered that they could have a real opportunity to achieve great things.
Regarding young boys and girls, at the time that I started shooting, there was a young boy of about 11 years old who was competing with the best men. He was thought of as a real prodigy because it was very unusual for someone so young to perform at such a high level. It was later found out that his father was coaching him with hand signals during competition. He was disqualified, disgraced, and quit shooting after that. While not a positive story, what is interesting is the fact that young boys and girls have the physical ability to shoot as well as adults. What separates the younger shooters from the older is mental maturity, and of course, experience.
I believe that you are correct about why the created separate classes for men and women.
Victor
I found a good use for the PA foam pellet packing.
Stack them up and use them for a rest. Some of them can be taped together in a block if you want. Or make a block out of four of them and stack others under or on top of them to adjust height.
twotalon
can anyone inform me on the average velocities achieved by the FWB 150, B.B. did a test of lead free pellets and got better results than I have heard of from them out of a rifle. I’m looking for a good backyard plinker that I can shoot lead free pellets from and maintain some accuracy.
Scotty,
I can test this for you. Just please remind me on the current blog, not an old one like this. That way everyone can see why I am doing what I’m doing.
Thanks,
B.B.