Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo

Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo.

This report covers:

• Velocity baselining with Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Premier lite average for 5 pumps
• Premier lite average for 10 pumps
• Velocity baselining with Daisy BBs
• Daisy BB average for 5 pumps
• Daisy BB average for 10 pumps
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads
• Gamo round lead ball
• Trigger-pull
• Evaluation so far

Today, we’ll look at the velocity of the Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo. I told you last time that the loading trough is narrow and difficult to access, and I tried to photograph it for you but was unable to get a picture that showed what I’m talking about. Just take my word that this rifle has much less access room than a Daisy 880 or a Crosman 2100.

I shot the rifle with pellets, BBs and lead balls, because I know some readers are interested in every type of ammo. In doing so, I learned some valuable lessons about this airgun! Let’s get started.

Velocity baselining with Crosman Premier lite pellets
I began the test with Crosman Premier lite pellets. I hoped to establish a baseline for velocity. But as you’ll see, it didn’t work the way I’d hoped.

Pumps     Velocity f.p.s.

2             270
3             383
4             434
5             473
6             478
7             500
8             532
9             540
10           552

Theoretically, the gun should average close to these velocities with the same number of pump strokes. However, as you’ll see, it didn’t.

Premier lite average for 5 pumps
The gun gave 473 f.p.s. with 5 pump strokes on the baseline test, so you’d think that would be close to the average of 10 shots, with 5 strokes each. And it was! The average for 10 shots with 5 pump strokes each was 471 f.p.s. But the velocity spread for those 10 shots ranged from a low of 444 f.p.s. to a high of 499 f.p.s. For a multi-pump pneumatic, that 65 f.p.s spread is huge! I normally see a 6 to 10 f.p.s. spread. At the average velocity, this pellet generates 3.94 foot-pounds on 5 pumps.

Premier lite average for 10 pumps
Here’s where the gun went out of parameters. On the first test, 10 pumps gave 552 f.p.s., so I expected the average for 10 shots with 10 pumps each to be pretty close. But it wasn’t. The average for 10 pump strokes was 577 f.p.s., which is a lot faster than expected. The low was 564 f.p.s. and the high was 588 f.p.s. So, even the slowest shot in this string was faster than the first shot on 10 pumps. Was the gun speeding up? It seemed so. At the average velocity, this pellet generated 5.84 foot-pounds at the muzzle on 10 pumps.

Velocity baselining with Daisy BBs
Next, I did the same baseline test with Daisy Premium Grade BBs. Here’s what they did:

Pumps       Velocity f.p.s.

2                   410
3                   483
4                   538
5                   579
6                   595
7                   637
8                   644
9                   660
10                 670

I look at this chart and see a typical performance curve for a multi-pump. Each early pump gives a lot more velocity increase, while later pumps add just a little. That’s characteristic of all the multi-pumps I’ve ever tested.

Daisy BB average for 5 pumps
Then, I tested a string of 10 shots with the same BBs, and the gun pumped 5 times for each shot. The average was 575 f.p.s., which is pretty close to what we see in the baseline string. The low was 570 f.p.s. and the high was 580 f.p.s., and that’s exactly what I expect to see from a multi-pump.

Daisy BB average for 10 pumps
With 10 pump strokes, Daisy BBs averaged 665 f.p.s. — again, very close to the baseline test. Maybe the rifle’s breaking in? The velocity went from a low of 649 f.p.s. to a high of 676 f.p.s. That’s a little high, but still better than we saw with the Premier lites on 5 pumps.

I loaded the BBs into the reservoir and fed them automatically as the bolt was worked. This went smoothly and only once did I have to jiggle the rifle a little to get a BB up on the bolt magnet. This is definitely the way to feed the gun when using BBs!

The rifle definitely seems to be breaking in with about 75 shots on it. It’ll probably be fully broken-in after 300 shots or so.

H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads
Now, it was time to test the rifle with a heavier pellet. Pneumatics usually do better than spring guns with heavier pellets. With 5 pump strokes, the 10.65-grain H&N Baracuda Match pellet averaged 446 f.p.s. That translates to a muzzle energy of 4.71 foot-pounds, which is more than the Premier lite generated. On 10 strokes, Baracuda match pellets averaged 548 f.p.s. and generated 7.1 foot-pounds. So, performance is exactly as expected.

Gamo round lead ball
I tried Gamo round lead balls because I knew some readers would want it. And this is when I discovered that you don’t want to shoot round balls in this rifle. The balls often fall into the action because the loading trough is too narrow and you can’t place the ball directly into the trough. I lost several balls during this testing and almost had one fall into the BB magazine! I do not recommend loading anything but steel BBs and lead pellets in this rifle because you could jam the action.

But, I did finish the test, so let’s look at the numbers. On 5 pumps, I got an average 508 f.p.s. The low was 495 and the high was 521 f.p.s. At the average velocity, this ball generates 4.99 foot pounds at the muzzle. On 10 pumps, it averages 589 f.p.s with a spread from 572 to 607 f.p.s. At this speed, the 8.7-grain ball generates 6.7 foot-pounds.

Trigger-pull
The 2-stage trigger breaks very consistently at 5 lbs., 9 oz. That’s on the high side of normal, but it shouldn’t hinder accuracy.

Evaluation so far
So far, the Black Ops Junior Sniper has offered no real surprises. The powerplant behaves like any other inexpensive multi-pump. Loading is a chore unless you’re shooting BBs.

109 thoughts on “Black Ops Junior Sniper air rifle combo: Part 2

  1. Very interesting test, great work. It sounds like two things are happening, one is the seal is seating, next is it may have a larger valve reservoir then previous made multi pumps. Id say its still gaining power per pump up till 12- or so, my 1377 is set up so that it likes 12, this might be stock similar and might be pretty tunable… 😉 😉 … on the 188, git it chrony-d, grossly under powered is right, guess I haven’t shot a 400foot co2 in awhile, its getting around 200 with copperhead bbs, corroded from the bottom if my nut n bolt drawer, but still. Need some black hornadys! Like to try them, but really it needs to be built up to its potential, steel pump arm and a serious tube and spring, that was more why I wanted you to test it, with the 100 dollar pcp, it seems like possible old becomes new lies in wait in this one. With the nitro piston trail pistol, p series pistols, other various breakbarrel pistols, all going for power, a solid underlever seems so simple and flexible a design to achieve something great. And it is attractive, I like the looks better then a 1377 and it feels great in the hand. Maybe I’ll build it and see if you want to test it, I see a serious market that could nudge out the p series, especially if its priced right, no question.



      • SIDEBAR My email pal, a retired State Trooper who was on their SWAT team and sniper uses Non-Detergent oil ( i use ND or PellGun Oil..) lubes his Cr 760s joints and cup, then stores the air rifle barrel down..he thinks maybe the oil will oooze down into the air cylinder and get into areas it should not be in. That is, especially, if not to be used in 6 months or longer.. And like me, with a pump or two. yes, i know the instructions say nothing about a “pump or two..”

        Pete
        Orcutt, California


        • Oil can’t get anywhere it shouldn’t be, put it in a tub of it, take it out and shoot it a few times and nothing will have been damaged, maybe some clothing, as long as its not corrosive oils.


          • Thank you very much. So, whch oils are non-corrosive ? ND, PellGun OIl, WD-40 ( just threw that in…)? If you do not shoot them a few times after the lube (You’re putting them away, recall ) .are we back to square one or just shooting them with couple of pumps each time to clear their lungs?
            We also have to add “I did something for a feel good factor..” I always tried to store my Dans and Benjis with a pump ( or two..) so I guess the habit is carried forward even though everybody says it is not needed. on Crosman 760. Going to store barrel down from now on…another feel good factor My Guru rebuilds pumpers, Daisy BB Guns, Springers but his favorite for favorite use is a DayState PCP airgun. He takes deer with his .22 Mag up to 100 yards with a shot in the eye or a 22-250 out to 400 yards. Yes, he is a sniper and came wtihin one point being national champion one year
            Pete
            Orcutt, California


            • I keep the pumpers with a pump in too, it probably makes no difference with modern seals that aren’t really going to lose shape but it definitely eases my mind about the possibility like you said. Which oils to use are a hit topic outside of pelligun and ballistol standard answers, there are millions of different oils lubes and greases so I personally think there are many more options that depend on the powerplant. Taking deer with a 22mag is totally and unjustifiably frowned upon, from lots I’ve heard on the subject, but a head shot will do it no problem, wildlife controllers use a 22mag or long with a headshot to keep population in check. And those are total professionals. Sounds like your buddy is confident with his gun/s and can place the shots, but obviously not everyone is and need more room for error, I think that’s where the caliber gets bashed, when its proposed for use by average and less then average marksman.


              • Yes, I think a State Trooper SWAT team sniper is more than qualified to take these shot. But anybody else, a Win.30/30 ls minimum. The 30/30 over took the .44 W.C.F (44-40) which was number one deer caliber.
                Thank you !
                Pete


      • I loved the marksman pistols.. man you are not hearing me. Isn’t the nostalgia and forward thinking DESIGNS that weren’t executed well the framework for many successful guns? Don’t simple, robust products last? So it shot 200 fps back when they made them, is that all you see? Maybe you just don’t like this model, which is the only time there’s egg on your shirt.. I hope for today, if I could ask you, you take a second to see a gun you might’ve thrown away and written off with the eyes of a new airgunner picking it up with fresh eyes, new manufacturing techniques, and an expectation of airguns you surpassed long ago.



  2. Hey Buldawg 76

    Not seen you for a while man. Just to let you know I finally found time to strip my friends Hatsan Striker. It was a breeze thanks to the info you so kindly sent. Also made a real nice spring compressor to do the job.As I suspected he had badly damaged the piston seal by squirting sae 40 down the port.Ordered a new one from E Bay. Meanwhile I did the cleaning( a small part of the seal had melted onto the base at the transfer port end) de-burring & polishing. Now it only needs to be lubed & fitted up. It was doing 750fps with the damaged seal,should boost up to about 900 hopefully with new seal.I’m using JSB Exacts 8.44gr. Thanks again!

    Errol


    • Errol
      Glad I could be of help with the hatsan striker rebuild as that’s what this blog is all about being able to help others in need. The 40 weight oil definitely was not good for a spring gun and just glad he did not get hurt by it because if it was a magnum spring gun it could have exploded instead of just detonating and burning the seal. It should shoot the JSB 8.44s very well and if they get to much over 950 fps I think you will start to see the accuracy degrade as the JSB 10.34s in my Mrod are very accurate till they get above 975 fps and then they start to destabilize so I have it tuned to shoot them at 930 fps and they do quite well at that speed and actually are more accurate than I am capable of shooting them.

      I have been reading the blog but the reviews in the past couple of days have had no interest for me as I am not into pistols or replica air guns and no futuristic/ black ops style air guns either.

      I have been busy shooting and tuning on my new to me B40 underlever that is a TX Chinese clone and shares many of the same designs and actually parts as well. I got it to use as my spring FT gun for the matches I shoot in at my local club. it to likes the JSB 8.44s the best so far in my chrony testing. I really want it to shoot the 10.34s but right now they are only shooting an average of 727 fps since my new piston seal has broken in when the seal was new and still seating and burning off the silicone oil I lubed it with it was averaging 804 fps with the 10.34s so I have another seal on it way that is made out of a different material.

      I am still out here reading just do not comment as much when the review is of no interest to me.

      BD


      • Buldawg
        Remember when we was talking about the 10.34 JSB’s. I could adjust the power down with my Mrod and watch the groups tighten up. And about 900 fps was good with my Mrod and 950 mine would start loosing accuracy.

        But on the other hand that Hatsan QE that I had shot the JSB 10.34’s pretty good at 980 fps. So I think the bolt probe and barrel plays into the factor of the groups the gun gets at different velocities.

        So I don’t think that 930 is the rule of thumb for that pellet. I believe its more on the lines of that is what your Mrod likes.


        • Gunfun
          I do remember us talking about the JSBs and velocities but not so much as to what fps your Mrod would shot them at before it started to lose accuracy versus mine. I don’t remember you stating that the hatsan would shoot them better at a higher velocity but then my mind is always working overtime any more with air guns, docs visits, grandkids and the wife always forgetting so that I have to remember for the both of us but I agree it does have a lot to with each gun and barrel.

          I was not meaning that the JSB 10.34s could only be accurate below or at 930 fps but that as a general rule once you start getting closer to 1000 fps and above most pellets start to become unstable in flight and therefore lose accuracy. There is always an exception to every rule so yes it is what my Mrod and that pellet like for a combination and barrels do make a huge difference as I am seeing with the B40 and the 4 different pellets I have tried in it as it so far only likes one.

          So as you said it is now a matter of measuring the 8.44s to see what the difference in head/skirt sizes are for them versus the other three pellets and seeing if there are any heavy pellets with the same sizes and trying them to see how it likes them.

          BD


          • Buldawg
            And that’s another that comes to mind. Maybe if the velocity was up in the 800’s maybe the JSB 10.34’s would. Maybe there is a point were to slow is no good for them either.

            But I have shot them with good success down at 600 fps in my 1377 conversion with the disco breech and barrel. And also a Crosman 1720T that was shooting them at about 690 fps.

            So I really think that the barrel size and how the bolt probe seats and seals the barrel and pellet.

            And like we talked before maybe one skirt is thicker or thinner making the air pressure seal the skirt to the barrel better when the gun fires.


            • Gunfun
              I have not really even started any true accuracy testing on the B40 yet so I am not saying that the 10,34s will not be accurate at the 717 fps the b40 is shooting them now that the oil has been dissipated and the seal has seated. I was just not expecting the velocities to drop quite as much after getting the seal broke in and the oil burned or dissipated as it never did detonate at all when first shooting after replacing the vortek seal with the crosman seal but rather it just blew a light mist out the barrel when shot for 50 to 60 shots. so I did not think the velocities I recorded when first shooting after the seal replacement were from the extra push of detonation as there was none audible at least.

              The ES of the three pellets did come down some as compared to the first record but not by anywhere near as much as the 8.44s did as they went from 64 fps spread to an 9 fps spread and the other three are still above 25 fps spread.

              It does seem that it likes the diabolo shape or larger and easier spread skirt of the CP heavies and JSB 8.44s better than the 10.34s more bullet shape and less easily spread skirt design as the ESs with the 10.34s was still 62 fps and I don’t see how they can be consistent shooting at that large of a spread but I may be wrong.

              I was just using your TX and its characteristics as a base line to try and achieve with the 40 but it does not look like it will shoot the 10.34s at anywhere near 800 fps unless the chamber is kept wet with silicone oil.

              I do believe it is largely due to the thicker and less easily spread skirt of the 10.34s versus the very thin and easily spread skirt of the 8.44s and it is most definitely the difference in barrels and pellets sealing in the barrel.

              The bolt probe is not relevant on the 40 as it has no probe and remember I said the none of the 4 pellets I have tested with fit tight in the barrel at all as they are very easy to insert and push in past the end of the barrel with just my thumb so I need to measure and try some different pellets to find what it likes. Right now the best two of what I have are the CP heavies and the JSB 8.44s with the 8.44s being the very best so far. in the velocity tests and that does not mean they will be the most accurate but their consistency has to be a big consideration.

              BD


              • Buldawg
                Right I know the bolt isn’t relevant on the TX LGU or the B40. I just wanted to say that has played a part on accuracy for me in the past on guns that do use the bolt probe to load the pellet in the barrel.

                And here’s something about the spread of the fps that is interesting.

                I got some of those Falcon pellets from RR when I bought that FWB 300s from him. I wanted to try them because BB always was getting a close fps spread.

                I tryed them in 3 .177 cal guns I had and the spread was good. Like 6 to 9 fps. But they just wouldn’t group in my guns.

                And almost every gun I tryed the JSB 10.34’s in I got ftom10 to 20 fps spread with them. But for some reason I always get good groups.

                And again that’s my guns. Somebody else could have different results with their guns.


                • Gunfun
                  I could live with a 10 to 20 fps spread with the 10,34s but what I got today was a 61 fps spread with them and I just don’t see them being consistent in accuracy with that big of a velocity margin as the Lo was 687 and the hi was 747 fps .that is a huge difference in velocities to be consistent in accuracy.

                  I understand that just because the 8.44s are very close in ES that they may not be accurate but the consistency in velocity of a lo of 812 and a Hi of 821 has got to help to some extent.

                  I just got done measuring five random pellets from the CP 10.5s, JSB 10.34s and JSB 8.44s and got some interesting readings that explains the veloicity spreads.
                  CP 10.5s from the tins = head size.448 to .450, skirt size = ,448 to .454
                  JSB 10.34s head size = .445 to .448, skirt size = .450 to .453
                  JSB 8.44s head size = .445 to .448, skirt size = .468 to ..472
                  so you can see that the 8.44s have a much larger skirt to start with than either of the 10 plus grain pellets do and I believe that there lies the huge difference in fps spreads but that does not mean they will be accurate as well and I understand that but now my question is on the PA site when it gives different head sizes such as the H&N or Beemans in .450 to .453 mm is the skirt proportional to the head size. by that I mean if I buy a .453 head size is the skirt going to be .003 mm bigger as well versus a .450mm head size having a .003 mm smaller skirt diameter. if not then how do I go about finding pellets with skirts in the .468 and up diameters with out having to buy some of just about all that are out there and consequently waste a lot of money.

                  If there is no way to determine the skirt size then I may as well stay with the 8.44s and hope they group good as they shoot in velocity consistency. To me that is a huge difference in skirt size from the heavy to light pellets and I am less concern with head size as I am with skirt size since it is obvious that my barrel needs a large skirt diameter to work efficiently.

                  So how do I know the skirt diameters of all the pellets available without buying every one to try sans having to buy the sampler packs to find what the gun likes.

                  BD


                  • Buldawg
                    The skirt size definatly is what seems to be making the 8 grn. JSB’s work.

                    And good question about the skirt size stay in proportion to the head size.

                    And then does each pellet company follow the same rules.

                    That just may be a tuff one to find out.


                    • Gunfun
                      I know that it will be a real search if the 8.44s don’t prove to be as accurate as they are consistent. I guess it will be pellet samplers to start with or try some Kodiaks that the seller said he used for hunting but then it was also shooting very slow when I got it as well so the Kodiaks may not work at the higher velocities either.

                      I just hope the wind calms down to be able to test the 8.44s for accuracy.

                      BD


      • Buldawg 76

        Thanks for all your help & the new info. I did not know about ideal velocities for the JSBs. Will definitely check it out. You are right about my friend, he could have blown it all up. I too read all BBs blogs daily but rarely comment cos either I’m not qualified to or as you say it does not catch my fancy.I too share your dislikes except for air pistols. Good luck with your projects!

        Errol


        • Errol
          I may have mislead you to some extent with the ideal velocity for the JSB 10.34s as it still depend on the gun as to what velocity it likes as well as which pellet as well.
          My statement on the JSB 10.34s liking velocities below 975 fps is mainly from my experience as well as GF1s with out Mrods as he had a hatsan at44 QE that would shoot them very well at 980 fps. So the 975 or below is just more of a guideline that a hard fast rule as every gun is different even between the same guns and or pellets.

          I am glad your friend has learned without injury to himself as I have seen picture of a air gun that did not detonate but rather exploded and the right side of the compression chamber was blown completely out.

          BD


  3. Hi B.B.

    This is off point Sir. Just to let you know that I finally got me a scope. (Nikko Stirling 3-9×40 no AO cos could not afford it).Its optics a real good with a very sharp Duplex reticle. I fitted it onto my Norica & zeroed it as per your instructions.Got it dead on in about 10 shots.I have never used a scope before & its only now that I fully understand the great benefit of using one & why you always recommend it. Thank you very much for all your valued advice over the years. God Bless you.

    Errol


  4. Gunfunn1,

    Update, got the scope back late Sat. and 2 new UTG 2 piece rings but have done nothing with them. As it turns out, the hot water heater is broke and may or may not have some electrical issues as well. I took some readings, but since I’m not real electrical smart I want to run the readings by the maint. guy at work today.

    You said that you have read the BFTA scope set procedure? It was written 2002 with updates 2009~2013, so I do not see the info. as being outdated in any way. It seems very thorough, if not almost anal. But there is a lot of good stuff there. A couple of questions….

    If you go to section 3.2, it talks about turret centering. It list several methods, the 1st. being centering the turrets. It says don’t do it, you may damage the scope. The 2nd. is centering the “ghost” cross hairs. It says you can do it this way, but says you can’t see the “ghost” in all scopes. I can in mine. Then it goes onto to list a 3rd., which they recommend, which is centering the “arc” of the cross hairs. ((If you have not read it in a while, please do so, so that there is no confusion to what I am talking about.)) If you remember, I did the 3rd., succesfully, but found the windage adjusted to within 8 clicks of bottom when I went to do the turret centering. So you see the confusion? I fully understand all 3 methods.

    Of note also, if you go to section 3.5.2, you will see the (scope mount windage issue) that you, me and B.B. talked about, exactly!!! B.B. says no one messes with any of this any more and I do have to give his years of experience a lot of cred., but at the same time, I understand every thing we talked about as well. More confusion,..you see.

    On an indicator, ..I picked one up, but the base mag. V bottom is too shallow for a 30mm. rod, which I still need to get. I think I have a fix for that. Like you, I don’t want windage hold issues at different distances.

    I have an email into Leapers asking if their scopes come turret centered and also asked if their clamp bars are able to be flipped over,..so we will see what/if they answer. By the way, the “ghost” cross hairs are not centered in my new scope. No adjustments made at all, still factory set.

    Off to work,….Chris


    • Chris, USA
      Im curious to see what Leapers says. And you would think the scope makers would put some kind of solid stop on the turrets if they are only suppose to be adjust a certain amount and not the full travel.

      And let me know what you come up with your idea for the 30 mm rod.

      What I want to know is how are you planning on correcting the front to rear scope ring alignment.

      I got a idea first why don’t you just shoot your gun with the scope mounted. Set some targets right out in front of you in a straight line. From 15 to 50 yards. Bench rest so you can eliminate some of the shooting variation. And see if you notice that the pellet will hit more to the left or right at different distances.

      Like I said before I don’t even use the indicator to check anymore. I just did that when I was wanting to see how well the products or in this case the rings were made. I don’t even worry about how far from center adjustment my turrets are off. If the gun is doing its job I don’t need to investigate a problem.

      When I shoot the gun and its grouping constantly at different distances then everything is good. And remember holding the reticle level or I should say the same every shot. In other words no cant when you shoot. That will cause you more problems than the scope rings will. The more you lean or cant the gun the more the shot will be off.

      Shooting the gun will show you what you need to know. The whole point of this conversation at the beginning was to be able to know that there are variables in mounting a scope. There are variables when you shoot the gun. Its just a way to be more aware of what could be wrong.

      Im betting if you set your scope rings up then mount the scope and shoot the gun that it still may need work to produce the results you want. Probably the last scope I have checked the rings was about 6 or 7 years ago. And I can’t count how many scopes and air guns I have had and never had a problem with one scope yet. Well I take that back. I had a etched glass scope that looked like the lens and reticle had blacked dots peppered all over the lens.

      So for me I have never had any issues with turrets being bottomed out and readjusted. I guess I’m lucky or something.

      But let me know how it all turns out for you.


      • Gunfun
        I am with you on scope mounting as I did check some of my first scope mounts with a steel 1 inch rod that I have and found that most new mounts today are machined so close the there is no real need to do any elaborate aligning or lapping of the rings to be perfectly parallel for the distances we shoot with air guns.

        It may have a much bigger impact if we were trying to shoot 1000 plus yards but I believe that would be the only time bedding the rings or aligning them with pointed rods would really be necessary as you said there are far more variables to deal with than worrying about scope rings being aligned to thousands of an inch.

        I also have never worried about checking the centering of the scope turrets unless I have to turn them an excessive number of turns to get on target which I have yet to encounter with any new scope I have purchased in the last two years.

        I did some more chrony testing on the b40 today after getting the breech seal fitting and sealing right and my numbers have dropped more than I was expecting after the seal break in and oil burn off.
        CP 10.5s average = 717.2 down from 779.2 at first test with new seal, ES= 26.22 and SD = 7.93
        JSB 10.34s average = 727.9 down from 807.4, ES = 61.27 and SD = 21.00
        JSB 8.44s average = 816.4 down from 870.9, ES = 8,88 and SD = 2.82
        CPL 7.9s average 846.5 down from 925.7, ES = 39.11 and SD = 13.26
        The B40 likes the JSB 8.44s the best with an ES of only 8.88 and an SD of 2.82 but I am unsure if the light pellets will stay on their trajectory in windy conditions. I want to be able to use the 10.34s at the 800 fps they shot when first breaking in of the new seal so I don’t know if the seal is not expanding enough when fired to keep the fps up or if it needs lubricated some before every shooting match.

        I have another different material seal coming that is the same red color as the Vortek seal but is still a parachute seal like the TX and crosman seal I put in the gun, I also have the factory seal now that is in between the Vortek and crosman seal in stiffness and may try it before the red seal get here. I was not expecting such a huge drop in velocity especially since I found the breech seal was not sealing completely when I first chronyed the gun a with the new seal so I am somewhat confused by the numbers today as they lead me to believe the crosman seal is not stiff enough or fits to loose as there is very minimal friction or drag between the crosman seal and chamber as compared to what the Vortek seal had when I swapped the seals out. Since it is so easy to take apart and swap seals I think I will put the factory seal in and see what the numbers say.

        Your thoughts on the issue about seals and stiffness /drag.

        BD


        • Buldawg76,

          Thanks for your input. Don’t know if you followed any of the back and forth between Gunfun and I, but it got quite detailed. Knowing that you do not have to hold for windage at different distances would be nice. ( left at close, dead on at sight in, and right further out, for example).


          • Chris,USA
            I checked my first set of scope mounts with the 1 inch steel bar I have that is 10 inches long so it will fit in any mount spacing you could ever come across in a gun and there was not enough of a out of alignment to warrant the time and patience required to lap in the scope mounts unless as I said you are planning to shoot at very long distances. The ranges we shoot air guns at I do not believe you will ever have any issue with the scope being that far off to the left or right that it would not be readily visible to the naked eye.

            The human eye is capable of seeing as little as .015 thousands of a difference between to planes of a surface so if it was out that much you could see it looking down the barrel and scope. besides most barrel bores can be off by .005 ” or more so the scope alignment is the least of your worries.

            Do as GF1 has said and buy decent mounts like the UTG/Leapers mounts or any similar two screw to dovetail/ piccatinny rail/ four screw scope ring mounts and install them securely and mount the scope securely but not so tight as to collapse the tube or leave impressions in the tube from the rings. Tighten the ring cap screws in a crisscross fashion slowly tightening about 1/8 to 1/4 turn at time until all screws are the same tightness and feel secure and do the two screw on the rail the same way by alternating between the two until they are equally secure and go sight and shoot and enjoy.

            Don’t try and make it more complicated than it is as it will not yield any better results by doing so and only serve to frustrate you more than necessary. As far as the ring caps being swapped front to back on one set of mounts I always try to keep them the same as received but don’t know if it really matters so I would be interested as to what they say also. Please let us all know when you hear from leapers about the cap orientation.

            BD


            • Buldawg
              Your missing one important thing about the scope rings.

              If the front ring is out to the left let’s say and the the rear ring is out to the right it will cause your point of impact to change at different distances. And yes if you shoot at enough targets everyday placed at 15,25,35 and 50 yards and your scope is not mounted correct like I talked about above you will see your point of impact move away from the bullseye at different distances.

              When you shoot a field target match that uses smaller 1/2″ kill zones you will see how important the front to back scope ring alignment is.

              And check out part one of today’s blog towards the end of it. Chris is right we got into some pretty heavy discussions.

              Its not that you need to do that everytime when you mount a scope. Its that you know what to look for if your gun is not shooting as it should.

              I posted a slide show of some of the ways I use a Bridgeport to measure the scope to barrel alignment. And also some ways to use a indicator and stand to get readings. Check out part one of this guns plog and then let me know what you think. Just go to the top if the page here and click on part 1.


              • Gunfun
                Watched the slide show and have a edge finder/center finder as you, show and several dial indicator as well along with magnetic bases and all the necessary linkages and rods to do everything you were showing. I do understand about the front and rear scope mounts being possibly out of align with the center of barrel and the effects on sighting at distances as far as left or right POI tendencies with mounts out of align or true to each other. Like you though i have mounted so many scopes and numerous other mechanical items that we tend to pick up on the slightest amount of misalignment that I forget that not everyone has the years of experience behind them to do these type of things without having to think about all the little things such as scope mounts not being in the same plane.

                I know that when I set the scope into the bottom half of the scope mounts I will know right away if they are not within a few thousands of each other being in alignment due to the fact that the scope tube does make full contact with each mounts bottom half and can immediately see and feel the misalignment. But that comes from 45 years of experience that I tend to take for granted that others should know it also so it is my own self confidence that gets me in trouble at time by assuming others should know these things.

                The human eye is capable of seeing as little as .015 ” difference in alignment of parts and a trained eye such as we have much less and as far down as .005 ” so I apologize for my assumptions that others should be able to perceive these misalignment as easily as you and I do from our years of experience.

                I guess it is one of those learned skills that we seldom think of but rather take for granted as lesson learned long ago and stored deep in memory so that we just do rather than actually have to think of what it is we are doing since it has been done to many times to recount.

                I did miss the slide show and most of the discussion between you and Chris as I stated before pistols/replicas and black op/tactical air guns are of little interest to me so I don’t tend to read completely thru the blog.

                If I am going to collect old guns and tactical firearms they will be real ones not air guns since they will be for my survival in the near future most likely either as bartering goods or for protection and food gathering.

                I do agree with all you said above but just forgot that it come natural to us.

                BD



                  • Gunfun
                    I had read thru some of it but did not follow it fully so I was commenting with out all the fact’s in hand and I was not saying that you thought I did not know any of the info in your slide show but rather that I tend to forget that everyone does not have 40 plus years of experience as we do so I assume to much and make an XXX of you and me, mainly me in this case.

                    If I could only do it all over again knowing what I know now.

                    BD


                    • Buldawg
                      I don’t think we have to do it all over again. I think we can just do it now with all we have learned throughout time.

                      We just might not be as fast. And probably hurt a little more this time around.
                      🙂


      • Gunfun
        I tried the factory seal and no difference in fps between the factory piston seal and the more supple crosman piston seal so it is back to the crosman piston seal and shooting JSB 8.44s for now.

        I am now going to measure pellet head sizes and see what the 8.44s are as compared to the 10.34s as well as CP heavies and lites. The seller said he shot Kodiak match heavies so after I size the pellets I am going to see what size heads the 8.44s are and order some more 8.44s and a tin or two of Beeman or H&N pellets as close to the head size as the JSB 8.44s are as those shoot the best at just above 800 fps with a spread of 8.88 fps so that is outstanding as far as numbers go. It is just to windy here today to do any target sighting and get accurate results without the wind skewing the shots so I will wait for a calmer day to sight in with.

        But I am making progress and I checked my springs again when I changed the piston seal and the B40 spring is bigger in ID as well as OD than the vortek spring is so I marked the factory spring for where to cut to make it zero preload and will cut and grind it first to see how that makes the recoil feel and if it does away with the recoil then I will cut the vortek spring to the same length.

        BD


        • Buldawg
          Read my reply to you above.

          But I believe in you case with the b40 its more to do with barrel size.

          So yep I would say head and skirt diameter is going to make the b40 work if your seals are doing their jobs.

          Let me know what you come up with.



          • Gunfun
            There was not much difference in recoil between the factory seal and the crosman seal even though the factory seal was a bit more drag in the chamber than the crosman seal. The factory was no where near as tight as the vortek seal so it was somewhere in between the vortek and the crosman seal in terms of fit but made no noticeable difference in the fps of the pellets so it has the crosman back in it.

            As far as recoil between the two seals I did not shoot it enough to even consider the difference as it made no difference in velocity.

            So measuring pellets now and waiting for a red seal that I got from ebay to get here and see what it does and also I am cutting the factory spring to a zero preload to see what affect it has on recoil before I cut the vortek spring.

            BD



              • Gunfun
                Hopefully tomorrow will be a calm wind day and I can get some sighting in done with the 8.44s to see if they group as well as they shoot and I hope I get lucky with them and don’t have to start the never ending pellet search.

                I will let you know what it does when I get a day calm enough to shoot them an sight without the wind influencing the pellets.

                BD



                  • Gunfun
                    I know one thing I will do when I take it apart to check for the fit of the red piston seal.

                    That is one thing you suggested and I have forgotten each time its been apart and that will be to push each pellet thru the barrel to determine just exactly how good or bad of a fit it is and if there is a choke in the barrel or not. I already know the 8.44s will be a tight fit but I am curious as to how loose the others actually are and even need to look at the rifling in the barrel for wear or damage as well.

                    BD


                    • Buldawg.
                      The push test will tell.

                      Hopefully the barrel is choked at the end. But it sounds to me like its not by all the data you have been talking about.

                      If it was choked I bet the Jsb10.34’s would be doing good also.

                      Let me know if you feel the barrel tighten up or not with each of the pellets your trying to use now.


                  • Guynfun
                    I will let you what the push test reveals but I don’t think a choke would have much affect on the velocities of the pellets as by the time the pellet reaches the choke at the end of the barrel all the push behind it has stopped so it would only tend to slow the pellet if it was loose at the start of the barrel.

                    There would be a good amount of the air behind the pellet that would escape around it causing the lower velocities I recorded with the smaller skirted pellets.

                    The push test definitely will tell just how each pellet fits the barrel and if it is loose or tight for the length of the barrel.

                    BD


                    • Buldawg
                      Think about the FX guns that use thier smooth twist barrel.

                      The barrel is a smooth bore then when it gets about 3″ from the muzzle end that’s where the rifling is at.

                      So if the barrel is choked good on your B40 it should size the pellet before it leaves the barrel. That should help for more pellet sizes to be used.

                      That’s why I think some pellets work better in some guns than others. Well and other reasons of course.



      • Gunfunn1,

        I was under the impression that you do this check for all scope set ups. I was also under the impression that you understood the 30mm. rod set-up as I can not do the whole bridgeport mill thing as you did. You also seemed to put a lot of emphasis on turret centering.

        That said,…I will do just what you said,..mount and shoot. This is what I did at first and end up with something like 150 clicks up and about 50 left to get it shooting sweet. You commented that it sounded like a drooper to some degree and then we got into windage, turret centering and other things.

        As for the 30mm. rod, I can get one that is within .001 of my scope tube. Put dial indicator base on rod, rod end about 6″ from muzzle, and indicator tip on top of barrel and pull front to rear. This would show droop. Same on sides of barrel. This would show if scope was left or right of barrel or even angled. You said if this was all around .007, you were good.

        As for the one piece mount, I can say for sure that the fixed side point has almost a 1mm. flat on the tip while the moveable side has a much more pronounced point that would allow it to seat deeper in the dovetail. The new rings seem to have more evenly matched points.

        Also, you did not comment on the BFTA scope set up procedure. I was most curious to hear your thoughts on this. Vana2 recommended it and I got it saved. Vana, if you see this, please feel free to chime in.

        As for correction,..shims under or at sides, and yes,…caution must be used.

        Thanks all, Chris


        • Chris, USA
          I said I use to check with the indicator.

          I do like centering the turrets so I know where the adjustment is at.

          And all the setting up you do may help when you shoot the gun. But the end result is to shoot and correct if there’s a problem.

          Remember you asked about different ways to check a scope and I answered what I know. If I comment on any book or whatever was written means nothing about what your gun is producing. Its all just guide lines. And places to look if you have a problem.

          And yes if I have a situation when the scope is way out from turret center then a scope shim is what I use. But only if you shoot and record data from your targets.

          You do know how to document a pellet trajectory by your target don’t you. Search pellet trajectory by shooting at target on You Tube.

          If you can’t find it I will find the video and post it tonight when I get home. And the main thing is shoot your gun a bunch and document your results on the target.


          • Gunfunn1,

            I will do as you say and also search the ” tragectory ” to be sure I got that as well. Thank you for all of your time. I like your machinist “look” on things and appreciate precision in all things as well. I will keep you posted.

            Still curious what your thoughts were on the BFTA sight process. It takes awhile to read if you have not. Maybe some other time. Chris


            • Chris, USA
              How many clicks was in one revolution of your turrets. Im pretty sure you mentioned that before.

              And I forgot was that 150 clicks elevation and 50 click windage after you centered the turrets.

              If it was after centering the turrets you probably wasn’t that many turns from center. And I guess the whole reason I like to know were I end up is mostly if you start getting away from the spring preload that the turrets have on them your reticle will try to float or move around. That will definitely give you accuracy fits. So that is another reason I like to at least center the turrets before I shoot a new scope.

              And I think I read about the batf setup about a year or so ago. But I will try to read up on it again and let you know.


              • Gunfunn1,

                Yeah,…no spring load on either W/E is no good! I will set it up this weekend and let you know. No word from Leapers today on my questions. Their site said be patient cause everyone is at the Shot Show, so there must be only a few people left at “headquarters”.

                Hot water heater getting replaced on Wed.,.. so I shall take a rare day off.

                Later, Chris


  5. I have a question on scope mounting.

    I have an RWS 350 in 177 with a UTG scope base that keeps getting loose. I just put on locktite but how tight should the base screws be? Right now I have them torqued to 30 inch pounds.

    Thanks Steve


    • Steve,

      How tight? I never used a torque wrench, but I do know a trick about tightening the screws. Tighten the cap screws in a pattern, like you would tighten the bolts on a crankshaft cap. Right front, left rear, then move to the rear ring and do the same, then return to the front ring and do let front right rear and so on. It takes 8-10 trips around the pattern to completely tighten the cap screws.

      The base screws are not the same but I do make several passes around the pattern. That allows each screw to seat properly and it might fix your problem.

      B.B.



  6. Just got a good look and description of the GAT. As suspected it was the gun featured in the first carnival game I ever ran. We called it Gunball, not very accurate at all with a plastic baseball corked into it but I had plenty of winners. I kept a package of BB’s under the counter and during slow times I’d unlatch one and shoot my neighbor’s balloons. One BB could take out about 6-10 balloons when shot sideways across his board. He was a big guy who could really use the exercise. But during other slow times I’d also help him blow them up 🙂 I sometimes fantasize about getting back out there but it’s a lotta work and some of the characters not so savory.



      • I really can’t hold it well enough to shoot it but my buddy nailed hi butt can fro 25-30 yds. Clean through both sides!He’s gonna grab a bunch to fit inside one another from work today.We’ll see how many layers of tin it’ll go through!


        • Reb
          Don’t give up as you should get better enough to be able to shoot the regal and when you are able you will like it.

          Did you show your buddy the nitro vantage that PA has on sale that we talked about the other night and did he seem like he wanted one bad enough to spend the money to order it. Then he can shoot whenever he wants instead of borrowing your regal,

          BD



  7. Hi
    I wonder why there is no rifle on the market (at least I`m not aware of that), that would involve “a pump and multi chambers” mechanism in its design? I mean, a butt of a riffle could be consisted of a number of chambers( let` say 5/ 6), that would be pumped in with the air: a gear would pump in air from a pumping chamber into those 5-6 “shot chambers” , allocated in a butt, simultaneously…So that every one of them had the same pressure that it`s neighbor, eliminating accuracy issues provoked by pressure differences if one «shot chamber “ been used for a number of shots. The trigger then just opens each chamber in a sequential order to execute each shot. Is it really so difficult to design such a system for a 5/6 shots rifle? (Or even more, sacrificing power of shot of course) It seems to me such system could become pretty popular … Sorry for newbee question 🙂


    • Your not alone, a self contained pcp has been a great idea I can’t believe isn’t made yet either. Hey, somebody has to design the next generation and direction of airguns.


    • Hi Justin,
      Part of what you are asking about is accomplished in a different way by high end PCP guns. The large air reservoir feeds an inline regulator that then charges a smaller reservoir area to a very consistent pressure. The valve draws from the regulated chamber, so each shot has almost exactly the same pressure. But these guns don’t have onboard pumps.
      I have an FX Independence, which has an onboard pump but no regulator. You can keep it super consistent by pumping back to desired pressure after each shot. The air chamber is relatively small, but it’s large enough to allow followup shots without pumping, at the cost of declining reservoir pressure for each shot.





  8. I haven’t been following this closely. Last time I checked they had most of the first run of ten rifles sold.

    Looks like an interesting product that I might consider for a future purchase.

    As a kid I used a Crosman 101 (.22 caliber pumper) and always wished that I could have pumped it more and had a second follow-up shot – especially after I just missed a rabbit in the brush and it sat up in the open to see what that noise was. LOL!


    • Vana2
      Yiou can always put a lighter hammer spring in so it only let half the air out when shot as I have a Benjamin silver streak that I got back shooting and obliviously has a weak hammer spring because when I pump it up 8 times I get two equal powered shots and one little burp with each 8 pump cycle.
      I now that it is not supposed to shoot like that and have not chronyed it to see just how fast the two shots are but it just surprised me when I first got it back shooting that after one shot that sounds quite strong, when I went to pump it back up to 8 pumps that it still had a good bit of resistance in the first few pumps so I loaded it again and shot it then cocked it again with out pumping it and it popped just about the same as it did after 8 pumps and then one more cocking without pumping would give just a little phish of air out the barrel.

      So a multi pump can be made to give more than one shot and there are Benjamin that have been modified to give two full power shots with just three pumps in between each shot so it can be done fairly easy by playing with different hammer and valve springs.

      BD



        • Vana2
          I have an old 1968 model ( 45 years old ) crosman 1400 that I have pulled from retirement and put back in use and after sitting 20 plus years got oiled up and shot just as good as when it was put in the closet those 20 some odd years ago. I did go ahead and rebuild it because parts are still available so it is brand new inside and shooting like new as well.

          I am not familiar with a 101 model so I am unsure if it is like my 1400 in that it is what I call a self cocker. There is no actual bolt that you use to cock the hammer back against spring pressure but rather the trigger holds the hammer block against the valve release cap so that when you pull the trigger it releases the hammer and valve cap to allow for the stored air in the valve to fire the pellet and as soon as all the air has been released from the valve the spring on the hammer block forces the block and valve cap back to the closed position. so you just load another pellet and pump it up again to shoot hence my term self cocker, I think the industry standard term is blow back valve gun but I prefer my term of self cocker as that is what it does is self cock itself when fired.

          My point is if your 101 is of the same design then it can be made to fire more than one shot per 8 to 10 pumps but the arrangement of spring strengths would just be the opposite. My 1400s spring inside the valve is just to close the delrin seat and seal the valve after each pump and keep it sealed until shot and repumped. If your is like that you can instead increase the hammer spring strength in order to close the valve cap before all the air has been released and as an added benefit it will also give you a much lighter trigger. If it has a bolt that you actually pull back to cock the hammer back against the trigger sear then you would use a lighter hammer spring and stronger valve spring until you can get two roughly equally powerful shots or in the case of the Benjamin ACP as I believe it is called you fire one full power shot and only have pump three times to get back to an eight pump power shot.

          It may take some trial and error to find the right spring combo but it is possible to accomplish in a multi pumper if one so chooses to spend the time and effort to do so.

          BD


          • Hi BD,

            From your description your rifle is very different in design than the 101. The bolt is independent of the valve and only serves to seat the pellet and seal the breech. The hammer is a large steel knob that is manually cocked and the trigger is quite light. I will check it over to see what its multi-shot capability is.

            B.B. did a review on this rifle in December 2005 if you want to see a couple of pictures.

            My Father bought the Crosman 101 in the 1942-43 era and gave to me when I was in my early teens. It was slow to load but was powerful and quite accurate. Taught me it make the first shot count! Hunted everything up to groundhog sized game with it until I bought my first .22 rimfire.

            The gun sat in the closet for years (decades actually) and I just recently hauled it out and disassembled it to give it an overhaul. All in all I have many fond memories as it was a very nice shooting rifle and I am looking forward to getting it operational again.

            Thanks for your description!

            Vana2


            • Vana2
              It sounds as your 101 is indeed quite different than my 1400 and I will look up the 2005 review as I would like to see just how the 10 does work.

              But as long as you pull the hammer back against a spring and there is a spring inside the air valve that the hammer strikes the poppet valve to allow air to escape it can be manipulated to possibly give more than one good shot per pumping cycles.

              I to used my 1400 from 8 years old up in to my late teens along with a 12 gauge shotgun to hunt just about anything that moved in the islands of Cocoa Beach Florida. I found that my 22 pellet gun was as capable if not more so of killing raccoons and foxes as well as rabbits and squirrels better than my 12 ga shotgun was since I mainly used bird shot in the shotgun and did not really discover oo buck until my early twenties.

              Let me know if you try manipulating the 101 to get more than one shot per pumping cycle.

              BD


  9. Tom is at Media Day for the 2015 SHOT Show. He’s taken a lot of videos and pics that you can see in several places:

    Facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/TheGodfatherofAirguns

    Some on Twitter (still don’t know how to upload videos there):
    https://twitter.com (@airgungodfather)

    Google Plus:
    https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/104706393472251477800/104706393472251477800/posts

    These pages will have tons of uploads during the next 4 days at SHOT as Tom roams the halls of the Sands Convention Center to give you a virtual tour.

    Edith


  10. Hm. This gun looks like it is trying to imitate the IZH 61 although I have to admit the price is much cheaper. Great news on my IZH 61. I finally attached a missing part that I had to get from Duskwight all the way in Russia, and the gun looks like new. I’m glad to see that the IZH stocks at PA have not run out yet.

    I’m getting very enamored with the CZ 75 pistol which looks to be the IZH 61 of pistol firearms. Unknown but of high quality and the most popular law enforcement pistol in the world by some accounts. Anyone had personal experience with one?

    I’m putting in the holiday by watching episodes of Lizard Lick Towing which is hilarious. I recommend it.

    Matt61


  11. Cunfun
    I understand about the FX smooth barrels except for the last 2 inches but the pellet still b has to fit snuggly in the barrel to be accelerated by the air behind. It definitely will size the pellet before it leave the barrel but if the pellet is loose fitting till it hits the choke it will not increase the velocity at all as the velocity is imparted to the pellet in the first 8 to10 inches of barrel length in a spring gun.
    So in the case of the B40 that has a 13 inch barrel with probably the last 3 inches being choked hopefully the pellets velocity is attained in the first 10 inches before it hits the choke which will tend to slow it down as well as size and stabilize it in its flight.

    So my thoughts are either the barrel has a good bit of wear in the rifling making it slightly larger than it should be or it is just wanting a softer and bigger skirted pellet that can be expanded more easily in the first 2 inches or so of barrel length to attain it best velocity before it hits the choke and get stabilized and slowed down slightly.

    Some pellets do work better in some than they do in others so it is still down to what the push thru test reveals.

    BD


    • Buldawg
      I do believe the skirt seal has to be good no matter what kind of barrel your shooting a pellet out of.

      The head size will help with the accuracy like when the pellet hits the choke or the rifling in the case of the FX smooth twist barrel. It will size the head. But if the barrel isn’t choked then the correct head size has to be found.

      And yes the push test will tell. But one thing that will not be accurate is the skirt engagement to the rifling. You won’t have that sudden burst of air to make the skirt expand when the pellet gets fired. When you do the push test you will probably mostly be getting the head of the pellet engaging the rifling. So to check the skirt you will have to push the pellet maybe 3 or 4 inches into the barrel and then push it back out the way you loaded it. Then see if the rifling engaged the skirt. And again the skirt will not show truly what is happening in the barrel when you push it compared to the sudden air blast.

      All in all it will come down to pellet fit when the gun is fired if the rest of the guns power plant is functioning correct.


      • Gunfun
        That why I wish I could do it over again so we could be just as fast and not hurt so much. Speaking of which it was a rough night for me last night with leg and shoulder cramps and aches and actually just got out of bed an hour ago. So no shooting the 40 today and it is fairly windy any way so it would not be the best condition for sighting other than it is 66 degrees here and sunny. Tomorrow is supposed to be about the same just slightly cooler so hopefully can get it done tomorrow and if the 8.44s group good at my zero distance of 35 yards I will use them.

        If the 8.44s do shoot and group very well then I will most likely just shoot them as I talked to Loren and that’s is the pellet he shoots in all his guns and he has a TX also only it has the Macacari kit in it as the Vortek was not out when he tuned his TX. He also stated and told me to read on the ARH site that Macacari does not recommend shooting any heavy pellets in spring guns.

        I will do the push test as well when I take it apart again to see just how the barrel fit is with different pellets and if it has a choke or not. I will also do the push in 4 to 5 inches and then back out to see if the rifling is contacting the skirt of each pellet as well as pushing thru the complete length of the barrel and let you know what I find.

        I just started to read all the posts on the Air force big bore as I read the review last night before going to bed and you had the first post. I am glad to see someone finally making an air gun that shoots real bullets and it appears to be a hoss for sure but I to agree the scope rail should be lower even if it meant redesigning the stock so you could see thru the scope.

        I am going to read all the comments in a bit and will post to you there after I read all the way thru,

        BD


        • Buldawg
          Yea I know they all talk the normal 8 grn pellet all the time but you know me I tend to not follow the rules. I was like that with the drag cars and the RC airplanes.

          How can you find out if something is better if you don’t try.

          But Yea let me know if you get any shooting time in and what you find.


          • Gunfun
            I agree that 2 extra grains of weight is not going to make any damage or adverse affects to any gun and would rather shoot the 10.34s but I don’t believe they will be as accurate with the huge fps spread they have in the 40. I will test them to see if they are accurate as I am like you and tend to go against convention as well.

            If you don’t try you never know is exactly correct and I will try them and let you know which one shoots best if my body and the weather will cooperate.

            BD


            • Buldawg
              Yep let me know how it goes. But I believe your right. So far it looks like the 8.4 JSB’s will be the pellet in your B40. Well of the ones that you have already tryed.


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