by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Dan Wesson 715 airsoft revolver looks and operates just like the BB revolver.
Dan Wesson 715 BB revolver Part 1
Dan Wesson 715 BB revolver Part 2
Dan Wesson 715 BB revolver Part 3
Dan Wesson 715 airsoft revolver Part 1
This report covers:
- Velocity
- ASG 0.30-gram BBs single action
- ASG 0.30-gram BBs double action
- TSD 0.28-gram BBs
- 0.20-gram Stealth BBs
- Thoughts about the Hop Up
- How does Hop Up work?
- Summary
Today is the day we check the velocity of the Dan Wesson 715 6mm airsoft revolver, but I’m going to add some things to this report. I said in Part 1 that I would tell you how the Hop Up adjustment works and show you how to adjust it, so we’ll look at that, as well.
Velocity
I usually try several different types of ammunition in a velocity test to give you a good idea of how powerful the airgun is. In the case of an airsoft gun, however, I have to constrain my test to a specific weight BB of the three most common weights — 0.12-gram, 0.20-gram and 0.25-gram. I do that because airsoft guns are designed to work best with one specific weight of ammunition and no other. In the past I have experimented with other weight BBs in some airsoft guns, but all that did was prove that the weight recommended was the best one.
This revolver is somewhat unique in that it uses a 0.30-gram BB that isn’t common. I can find one 0.28-gram BB from TSD in my inventory that I guess would be close enough, so I’l try ity, too. I guess there just aren’t that many 0.30-gram BBs around.
I will begin by testing the revolver with the 0.30-gram Blaster Devil BBs that came with the gun. In fact, let’s do that now.
ASG 0.30-gram BBs single action
This revolver operates in both the single-action and double action modes. I have discovered there is often a significant difference between these two modes, so I will test each one with this BB. I’ll start with single action. The average velocity of the 0.30-gram BB in single action was 364 f.p.s. The low was 354 f.p.s and the high was 378 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 24 f.p.s. I did pause a minimum of 10 seconds between shots to cancel the cooling effect of CO2 that tends to slow the velocity. Based on the BB weight of 4.63 grains, these BBs generate 1.36 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.
One reader asked me to supply energy figures, so I calculated them from the Pyramyd AIR energy formula. [I originally calculated all wrong energy numbers, based on an error in my calculations of the BB weights, but faithful readers caught it and corrected me.] Based on the BB weight of 4.63 grains, these BBs generate 1.36 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle at the average velocity.
ASG 0.30-gram BBs double action
In double action the average velocity jumped to 411 f.p.s. with a spread from 398 f.p.s. to 422 f.p.s. That’s another 24 f.p.s. spread. At this higher velocity the muzzle energy computes to 1.74 foot-pounds. That’s demonstrates what I was saying about some guns having different velocities in single action versus double action. The revolver is rated to 450 f.p.s. and I did not see that speed in any test. The highest I got was 422 f.p.s. in double action, which is still haulin’ for a heavy 0.30-gram BB!
I noted that when loading the BBs, they had to be pushed into the nose of the cartridge. When I felt them pop in, I knew they were deep enough.
Push the BBs into the nose of the cartridges until they pop in (right).
TSD 0.28-gram BBs
Now that I know the double action mode is fastest, I only tested in that mode. With 0.28-gram TSD BBs the gun averaged 439 f.p.s. The high was 453 f.p.s. and the low was 432 f.p.s. So with this slightly lighter BB we finally see the advertised velocity for the revolver.
At 4.32 grains, these BBs generated 1.85 foot-pounds at the muzzle. That’s a surprise because usually the power decreases in gas and pneumatic guns as the projectile weight declines.
0.20-gram Stealth BBs
The last BB I tried was an 0.20-gram BB with the name Stealth on the bottle and no other identification. I’ve had them for about 10 years and can’t remember where I got them, so I can’t tell you who makes them. They averaged 480 f.p.s., double action, with a spread from 476 to 484 f.p.s. These weigh 3.09 grains and generate 1.58 foot-pounds at the muzzle, which is more in keeping with what I expected.
Thoughts about the Hop Up
The Hop Up feature puts a backspin on the BB as it leaves the barrel. That makes it fly straight and true, if the spin is ideal. If it isn’t, you have to adjust it.
Correcting the Hop Up is not done by shooting at a target. What you are looking for is stable flight — not accuracy, though getting one will give you the best of the other. Stable flight means no tendency to fly off course. Some of you can already imagine how we adjust the Hop Up.
If the BB is light-colored, which the ASG BBs are, then select a large dark background to shoot at. Stand at least 30 yards away, and 40 is better, because you want to watch as much of the BB’s flight as practical. Put the sun at your back and start shooting. Watch for sudden shifts in the BB’s direction of flight. If you see them, adjust the Hop Up adjustment in one direction until you see a change in the BB’s flight. It doesn’t take much adjustment to make a change — maybe 1/8 turn of the screw will often give results.
Obviously if the BB flies worse when you adjust the screw you are going the wrong way. But there is a limit to this. You can’t adjust the gun to be more accurate than its capability. There is a point beyond which the gun will not be more accurate. So the Hop Up is used to correct obvious flight problems that appear to you as sharp curves. After the BB gets out some distance from the gun — perhaps 20-30 yards — it will start to curve more slowly in a certain direction. The Hop Up probably can’t fix that. You are looking to correct those sharp curves in flight close to the gun — not gradual curves at greater distances.
How does Hop Up work?
Hop Up is a soft flexible bumper in the bore that contacts the BB. Hop Up works by stopping the top of the BB as it travels down the bore. That puts a backspin on the BB. The amount of pressure the Hop Up puts on the BB determines the rate of backspin.
When the BB hits the rubber Hop Up bumper, the top stops and the bottom spins counter-clockwise. The amount of pressure the Hop Up puts on the BB determines the rate of backspin. The size of the bumper is enlarged here to show detail.
Obviously the Hop Up adjustment controls the depth of the rubber bumper that determines the amount of pressure it puts on the BB. More pressure means more backspin — to a point. There is a point beyond which further adjustment doesn’t do anything beyond impeding the BB’s flight. That’s why there are limits to what can be done. But without Hop Up the BB wouldn’t fly nearly as straight or as far.
Can BBs be re-used?
This answers a question asked by a reader. Airsoft BBs should not be reused. They are damaged on impact, as the photo below shows. Even the ones that aren’t cracked are made oval on impact.
Three BBs from the Dan Wesson after impacting a silent pellet trap. I have seen airsoft BBs with air pockets inside that cause erratic flight. These look pretty good.
If you shoot a low-powered airsoft gun and the BBs impact something soft like a blanket, then some of them can be reused. Just don’t expect great accuracy as they become oval from impact. A high-powered gun like this Dan Wesson, however, damages almost every BB it fires.
Summary
So far, so good. I have actually shot this revolver out to 30 yards, and the Hop Up is right on as it came from the box. The BBs are accurate out to 20 yards and don’t start curving until around 30 yards. When they do the curve is more gradual. I was able to hold several shots in 4 inches at 20 yards firing one-hand, unsupported. That suggests the gun is accurate. We shall see!
Get that airsoft pistol on your famous mono-pod hold and I bet it’s going to give the steel bb pistol a run for its money.
4″ and unsupported sounds pretty exciting to me.
Are you going to give a shot count per 12 gram Co2 cartridge by chance? I would like to see how it compares to the steel bb pistol.
And it makes me wish I still had my air soft scoped sniper rifle. It was a good shooter. Well here we go again. What do I call the air soft rifle. It doesn’t have a rifled barrel. So should I call it a long gun? Or maybe a smooth bore air soft rifle?
GF1,
I will try to give you a shot count. I overlooked that in my haste to talk about the Hop Up.
B.B.
BB
Ok thanks. I never had a steel bb shooting Co2 pistol and a air soft pistol of the same model at the same time.
Was wondering if the lighter air soft balls can maintain their point of impact for more shots than a steel bb version.
Thank you! I guess it is time to try out my airsoft pistol? I purchase this airsoft with a lot of other CO2 pistols and a CO2 rifle with a several other items Vortex and springers with tons of CO2 cartridges and pellets, BBs etc.! All in a big box store at almost giveaway prices! Almost two years ago? The airsoft pistol which I need to dig out with the airsoft 6mm BBs? And start learning how to use it! Thank you for the education! By the language used in this airsoft report really helps! Semper fi!
BB,
1 gram = 15.432 grains
.3 grams = 4.63 grains
.28 grams = 4.32 grains
.20 grams = 3.09 grains
.12 grams = 1.85 grains
If I did my math correct and managed to type in the numbers correct on this tiny key board.
Jim
Jim,
Thank you! I will correct it.
B.B.
Google is your friend. Converting grams to grains and using the result in the Pyramyd AIR energy formula gives the following results:
Using the average velocity on Single Action reported with the ASG 0.30 grams (4.62971 grains) yields 1.36 fpe.
Using the average velocity on Double Action reported with the ASG 0.30 grams (4.62971 grains) yields 1.74 fpe.
The 0.28 gram weight (4.32106 grains) using the average velocity yields 1.85 fpe.
The 0.20 gram weight (3.08647 grains) using the average velocity yields 1.58 fpe.
Siraniko,
Yep, I screwed up big time on this one. It will take a little time, but I will correct it.
Thanks,
B.B.
B.B.,
4 inches at 20 yards is pretty darn good for my money, especially for a smoothbore handgun unsupported and one-handed. I think a lot of .175 caliber steel BB handguns would be had pressed to top that. Hmmm. We need to hop up some BB guns! :^)
This is an exellent report, and I can’t wait for the next installment. Thanks!
Michael
> I haven’t found a calculator that converts from grams to grains yet.
B.B., Siraniko: Google is also your friend, because it will calculate nearly any unit conversion for you directly. It is the converter you seek, B.B.! Try typing the following into the Google search field (without the quotes, of course). Http links to the results follow each example, but it’s easiest to just surf to Google.com (use a bookmark or set it as you default search engine) and just type what’s in the quotes:
“.28 grams in grains”
https://www.google.com/#q=.28+grams+in+grains
“12 ft lbs in J”
https://www.google.com/#q=12+ft+lbs+in+J
“334 m/sec in ft/sec”
https://www.google.com/#q=334+m%2Fsec+in+ft%2Fsec
(or simplify and just type “334 m in ft”)
“10 kg in slugs”
https://www.google.com/#q=10+kg+in+slugs
Google will even do physically incorrect conversions with mismatched unit types for you (it knows what you want and doesn’t care what your physics Professor tried to teach you) ;):
“10 kg in pounds”
https://www.google.com/#q=10+kg+in+pounds
“9.6 l in gallons”
https://www.google.com/#q=9.6+l+in+gallons
“70C in F”
https://www.google.com/#q=70C+in+F
“80 newton in pounds”
https://www.google.com/#q=80+newton+in+pounds
“3.4 light-years in miles”
https://www.google.com/#q=3.4+light-years+in+miles
“3,000,000,000 miles in astronomical units”
https://www.google.com/#q=3%2C000%2C000%2C000+miles+in+astronomical+units
“1c in mph”
https://www.google.com/#q=1c+in+mph
Okay–I’m getting carried away and those last few examples are so much more fun that more mundane and boring examples that you might actually use! Notice that a conversion calculator pops up with the answer for additional conversions too. There are very few conversions that Google can’t do for you. If something doesn’t work, you probably just need to try another abbreviation for your units and you’ll find an abbreviation that Google knows.
Google is great for stuff other than spying on you, isn’t it?
I want to stress again that you don’t need any of the links above to do Google conversions. In fact, perhaps I should not have even included links so you could see my results with just one click (instead of cutting and pasting what’s in the quotes). In actual use, just surf Google and type any conversion you desire into the search field with the format
“X in ”
where X is a decimal floating point number. (Hmm, now I want to try numbers in binary and other numbers bases with unit conversions too, but I’ll spare you my excesses and simple pleasure!)
Arrghhh–the blog corrupted my generalized format above. I’ll try again. Use this format in the Google search field:
“X input_units in output_units”
Cal
The one I’m interested in that I was hopping you would list is.
Feet per second to miles per hour.
And I’m serious. I would like to know how many mph my 900 fps pellet is going.
I found the formula. Pretty simple actually.
1 fps = .682
So my gun shooting a pellet at 900 fps is going 613.6 mph.
900 fps × .682 = 613.6 mph
Now that makes me think about the questions about what happens when you shoot in the rain. Does the rain knock the pellet off course if it hits a rain drop? And since it is going that fast and shooting at such a short distance like 50 yards. Does the pellet even hit a rain drop before it hits the target?
Wow and just think about the energy the pellet hits the target at.
A .25 caliber pellet going 613 mph and weighs 34.95 grains. Yep that’s going to hurt.
“Does the pellet even hit a rain drop before it hits the target?”
Gunfun1,
That sounds like a Koan. What is the sound of one hand clapping? :^)
Michael
Michael
Wasn’t me that brought that up about if the pellet actually even hits a rain drop before it makes it to the target. Somebody else mentioned it when we was talking about shooting in the rain.
Hmm now your going to make me wonder if there’s a video out there somewhere of a pellet hitting a rain drop. Or even a drop of water after the pellet leaves the barrel. And then a picture of the target to see if it does affect the pellets flight. 🙂
Yup–I’m still here, Gunfun1. I read most of B.B.’s blogs but have to read them quickly and rarely have time to comment. Glad you found that Google knows “fps.” It’s much easier than typing “feet per second,” which it also knows. I haven’t been able to get it to do mach number though, but in truth, mach number in the atmosphere is dependent on air temperature. Other calculators are available for mach number anyway, including a good ol’ aviation E6-B calculator. I actually used them during the short time I was a flight engineer in the DC-8, before I upgraded to first officer.
One advantage to the old mechanical calculators, including the slide rule, is once you dial-in the conversion multiplier/divisor, you never have to type, touch, or change anything to perform repeated conversions; you just look at the scales and read the results off the scales. Ever try to punch numbers into an electronic calculator’s keypad in severe turbulence? 😉
I remember doing the math to both calculate and find the minimum probability conditions of a moving object getting hit by a rain drop in calculus class many decades ago. If I remember correctly, it has to rain pretty hard before it becomes extremely likely for a pellet at air gun ranges, but it’s been too long for me to remember with any confidence.
Living in a very drizzly part of the U.S. (the Pacific NW), I know from my own shooting that it still happens often enough to skew test results and conclusions sometimes. Even when testing high velocity, lightweight centerfire rounds with sub-MOA expectations, it seems to me that it can be a little bit of a problem. Rain never seems to bother my .50 cal. 400 gr. Beowulf AR-15 or big bore muzzleloader loads though, but while pretty accurate, are not really the best tack drivers either 😉
Cal
How the original conversation came about a pellet hitting a rain drop and affecting accuracy. Is I mentioned I have shot my best groups when its been raining out. Go figure.
GF1′
I “may” remember that. 😉 That would be super cool if you could find any footage of shooting in heavy rain. Especially with a pellet rifle.
Chris USA
I will have to see if I can find anything and post it later when I get some more time.
GF1
Maybe try shooting immediately after rain when the humidity is super high also .
Possible that the increased air density helps stabilize pellets better .
twotalon
TT
I have to agree with you there.
If someone is interested to know more about hop-up better study the Magnus effect. I’m sure that except airsoft shooters, looong range shooters are aware of that also (they also know the Coriolis force). Even the basketball players back spin the ball, golfers and baseball players too (but i don’t think they know the physics behind that). On airsoft guns when you change bb weight you also have to adjust the hop up.
Did anyone wonder why there are no hop-up systems on actual bb guns (.177)?
Not quite who did the actual experiment but a blog reader did attempt to implement a hop up using a metal screw on an actual BB gun which gave poor results if I recall correctly.
Bullseye,
In tennis Bjorn Borg and Ivan Lendl combined powerful forehands with extreme topspin to win many a point. I guess one could call them “Masters of Magnus.”
As for ,175 steel BB guns, I don’t see why hop-up could not be applied to a BB gun,
Michael
Michael,
I did try a super strong magnet on a 499. I would have to dig up the targets, but it helped. I only did two 10 shot groups and removed it. I did not want the barrel to be magnetized permanently. I do however have an Daisy 880 (with the barrel exposed,…. arrow testing),….which would be a good test subject as it also fires bb’s, breech loaded. By the way, on the muzzle loaded 499,…. the bb’s stuck at the magnet point on the way down. A slight poke with a BBQ skewer sent them on their way to the breech. So,….. there was (definite) magnetic force being applied to the bb, (through) the barrel,… without the “hop up” device ever touching the bb.
Michael’
I had to look it up to be sure, but the 880 is rifled. With a magnet for “hop-up”,…. that poor bb will not know which way it supposed to go! 😉 I did not buy it for bb or pellet testing,…. so the “hop-up” idea is more of an after thought. Reminder notes made and I will give it a try this weekend.
Bullseye,
Pursuit Channel had a show called Long Range Pursuit,…. I believe. I have not seen it lately. Dis-continued?
They did a test of shooting due East and another shooting due West. One was 3″ up and the other 3″ down, if I remember correct. That show was very interesting and had a good bit of education thrown in. I liked that.
Chris USA
It’s still on. Watch it whenever I get a chance. Yes the Corilus effect. Which way does the water spin when you flush a toilet when your above the equator or below it?
Right = North. Left = South. Not sure,….mine is more of a “straight” flusher. 🙂
Chris USA
Straight down huh.
Maybe your your global position is like the Bramuda Triangle.
You have anything strange going on there like finding your air guns in different places then you left them last. Or things strangly disappearing and reappearing?
GF1,
Well,…. it is a “Binford 7000 ZX Turbo Hyper Magnum Series III”. So??? 😉
As for my global position,…. all is good. I do have a post “vaporize” right after hitting the send button sometimes. Not sure if that counts.
Chris USA
You just might be on to something with your post vaporizing. 😉
And I hate when that happens.
Bullseye,
The show may have been “The Long Rangers” I believe,…. (which I just caught), late. Montana Elk at 960 yds.
Nice camera work and beautiful scenery.
Chris USA
Did you get the email I sent ya with my latest sight set up on my Tx?
GF1,
Will check,…. you know me,…. every couple of days,…. “(
Chris USA
See you got them. Just responded back.
Hey–this worked on Google! I suspect that Google assumes standard air temperature (15C):
“500 mph in mach”
as does
“1000 feet per second in mach”
Strangely using an abbreviation for speed, “1000 fps in mach” doesn’t seem to work, though Google knows “fps” in other conversion contexts.
This is actually relevant to air gunning, because we all know that a diabolo pellet at near supersonic (even transonic) speeds is usually a bad thing for accuracy!
Cal
But people that got them light weight Gamo blaster pellets sure like the crack they make when they shoot. Regardless if they can hit anything or not.
Haha–yeah. Then they know they have a deadly, big, and super powerful gun from the big superstore!
Interesting about your experiences with rain. Humidity also has a negligible effect on air density (it reduces it, as Twotalon implied) and stability, compared to temperature and altitude (air pressure).
Who knows?!!! An airgunning Brit recently told me, “a springer is a fickle mistress,” but I think it’s also true to some degree with all air guns. I’d never heard that saying before.
Cal
I’m sure all that air pressure and stuff makes a difference.
I actually fly RC planes too. Done it since I was a kid. I was into the racing planes then arobatic planes. Like the Extra 300 that Patty Wagstaff use to competion arobatic fly. Now I fly the arobatic 3D planes.
Believe it or not. I can feel the controls on the plane getting mushy through the sticks and eye sight. I can fly a plane around on the stall and done vertical landings with the plane facing a 5 mph wind. So yep I definitely understand air density. Lift on the wings of a plane for sure act differently in different conditions.