Hatsan 85 MOBU Sniper Combo: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Hatsan 85
Hatsan 85 MOBU Combo is an affordable breakbarrel with nice power.

Part 1
Part 2

This report covers:

  • Start at 10 meters
  • H&N Baracuda Match 4.53mm
  • H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm
  • Crosman Premier 10.5-grains
  • JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain
  • 25 yards
  • Baracuda Match 4.53mm at 25 yards
  • JSB Exact Heavy at 25 yards
  • JSB Exact Heavy at 25 yards
  • Air Arms Falcon pellets at 25 yards
  • The feel of the gun
  • Summary

Today we begin looking at the accuracy of the Hatsan 85 Mossy Oak Break Up air rifle. We now know this is a powerful rifle that seems to have a smooth trigger. Let’sย see if that means anything downrange.

Start at 10 meters

I started this test at 10 meters. Instead of 10-shot groups I fired 5-shot groups with each pellet. The only thing I’m trying to do is refine the sights and select the best pellets for further testing. All shooting today is off a rest (sandbag), using the classic artillery hold with the off hand touching the front of the triggerguard.

All shooting was done with open sights. That eliminated the possibility of the scope causing accuracy problems right off the bat. This way we will know what the intrinsic accuracy is before we mount a scope and should not get confused when we do.

H&N Baracuda Match 4.53mm

First I tried some H&N Baracuda Match with 4.53mm noses. Given the power of the rifle, they seemed like a good match. Five of them went into exactly 0.50-inches at 10 meters. This may be a pellet to test at 25 yards.

Hatsan 85 10m H&N Baracuda Match 4.53
Five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.53mm heads went into exactly one-half inch between centers at 10 meters.

H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm

Next I was curious how the same Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads would do. Five of them went into 0.619-inches between centers at 10 meters. That’s not much larger than the first group, but for some reason it seemed so. I decided not to test them at 25 yards.

Hatsan 85 10m H&N Baracuda Match 4.50
Five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads went into 0.619-inches at 10 meters.

Crosman Premier 10.5-grains

Next I tried 5 Crosman Premier heavies. They didn’t do very well. The group measures 1.262-inches between centers at 10 meters. This pellet is not right for the Hatsan 85.

Hatsan 85 10m Premier heavy
Five Crosman Premier 10.5-grain pellets made this 1.262-inch group at 10 meters. That puts this pellet out of the running for this rifle.

JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain

The last pellet I tried at 10 meters was the JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain dome. This one surprised me by producing the best group of the day. Five bullets went into 0.408-inches. I will definitely try this one at 25 yards.

Hatsan 85 10m JSB heavy

Five JSB Exact Heavy pellets went into 0.408-inches at 10 meters. This was the best 10-meter group.

25 yards

Now it was time to back up to 25 yards and try the best pellets again. I began with the H&N Baracuda Match 4.53mm heads.

Baracuda Match 4.53mm at 25 yards

The sight setting remained the same as for 10 meters and 10 pellets went into 1.912-inches. The group is taller than it is wide, but I didn’t see any reason for that. It might be an aiming error, but the next several groups should tell me whether it is or not.

Hatsan 85 25 y H&N Baracuda Match 4.53
Five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.53mm heads made this 1.912-inch group at 25 yards.

JSB Exact Heavy at 25 yards

Next up was the JSB Exact Heavy that had done so well at 10 meters. Ten of them went into 1.499-inches at 25 yards. That was the smallest group at this distance. And this group is fairly round, which tells me that the previous tall group of Baracuda Match pellets was not due to aiming errors.

Hatsan 85 25y JSB Heavy
Ten JSB Exact Heavy pellets went into 1.499-inches at 25 yards.

Air Arms Falcon pellets

Just for fun I selected a previously untested premium pellet at random for the final pellet to test. I chose the Air Arms Falcon pellet that did so well in a number of rifles over the years. I know it will be going very fast out of the 85, but remember my 11-part Velocity Versus Vibration test back in 2011 showed this pellet can be accurate at over 1100 f.p.s.

But in the Hatsan 85 Falcons are not accurate. One pellet landed off the paper and the overall group was 2.755-inches between centers. Clearly it isn’t this big because of the velocity, so the vibration pattern of the rifle must be off.

Hatsan 85 25y Falcon
Ten JSB Exact Heavy pellets went into 1.499-inches at 25 yards.

The feel of the gun

Accuracyย day is when the real feel of the gun comes through. Holding it steady on target allows time to evaluate all the performance parameters. The trigger is heavier than I thought and I can feel movement through stage 2, though there is absolutely no creep (jerky start-stop movements).

The recoil is pretty heavy, but it’s all going forward. There is very little vibration, but the hollow plastic stock amplifies everything. The rifle feels sharp and sudden when it fires.

Summary

Now we know what this rifle is capable of. It should do at least this well with a scope, but probably better because of the increase in aiming accuracy. The scope test will be next, followed by a special new 11mm to Weaver adaptor mount from Leapers. Lots more to come!

55 thoughts on “Hatsan 85 MOBU Sniper Combo: Part 3

  1. B.B.
    Keep them coming! Very informative and not as accurate as i would have hoped for. Would this gun be better in .22 or.25?
    How about one of Leapers’ new scopes too.
    -Y

    FYI-typo in second to last sentence.


  2. And you know I’m not even going to mention right now that the JSB 10.34 is my favorite .177 caliber pellet.

    And the gun did shoot better than I thought it would at 25 yards.

    Oh by the way. How did the JSB 10.34’s feel when you loaded them compared to the others if you might remember BB?


    • GF1,

      This report makes me really appreciate what I have. The 25’s looked more like my 50’s. That is not to dis B.B. in anyway and really speaks more to my lack of skill. Then again, it was with open sights. So we’ll see what the scoped test’s show. I will admit, a .177 “Magnum Thumper” has been a thought from time to time. I do like some of Hatsan’s innovations.

      Any thoughts on the wood -vs- synthetic topic that J.Lee brought up? You have had the M-rod in both, have you not? Notice any difference? With getting the .25 M-rod in the near future, that is not something that I have given much thought to, (since I plan to mod. it with the RAI AR style kit anyways).


      • Chris USA
        First I’ll say that I have had different types of air guns with synthetic stocks and wood stocks. Some of the guns didn’t make no difference in how it felt when shot with either type of stock. Some guns felt or sounded worse with a synthetic stock like BB has mentioned on this gun he’s testing today. But other guns felt and shot the same with both type of stocks. I think that all has to do with how the synthetic stock is made.

        Now on the Marauder rifles both the wood stock and the synthetic stocks are very nice feeling when they shoot and either or is just as accurate and love the adjustable comb on the gen2’s. And remember I have mentioned I had a 1720T two stage trigger assembly on a gen1 Marauder in .25 caliber with one of Dave’s from RAI adjustable AR adapter and butt stock with no stock at all on the gun. All that was there was the trigger assembly and the main tube all the way to the front of the gun. Yep a all black gun. And yes that gun set up that way was a very nice gun to shoot. It bench rested well and was light and easy to carry.

        And I guess I should mention I have that Savage .22 rimfire bolt action ridle in a stainless action and barrel with a synthetic stock and its twin in .17 hmr. And both of those guns are very solid feeling smooth shooters. And that new Stevens 20 gauge pump I got is a synthetic stock gun. And it’s a very solid feeling gun when I shoot it. And the recoil is minimal even. Got some idea why that maybe on the recoil though. The action actually rotates like a cork screw I guess I can say. So I believe that helps reduce felt recoil when the gun fires and the action is comming back to eject the shell..

        Oh and on open sights. I answered the email back about the red dot and a scope and open sights. You’ll have to read it. But you mention today about open sights and the guns results.

        If you learn how to use a open sight or a red dot and set the red dot up good or should I say your initial sight in by taking the time to get it on the money. Both of those types of sights can equal a scopes performance at certain distances.

        What I say is the gun doesn’t know what sight it’s shooting with. Only the shooter knows that. And if that gun will get a 3/4″ group at 50 yards with a scope. It still will with open sights or a red dot. It’s the shooter that has to learn to shoot the other types of sights.

        My Tasco red dot on my Tx right now is a killer combination. Matter of fact that red dot is about 11 years old now. It’s been on my first Benjamin Discovery, my Winchester 190 semi-auto .22 rimfire rifle and one time on my 1377 HPA converted gun. Oh and the red dot is a very fun sight to shoot with on a semi-auto gun. And it been on other guns like the M8 spring gun and other springers and nitro piston guns. Put it this way the better shooting most accurate gun that I put the red dot on the more easier that gun is to hit with. You just have to try to see what I mean.



        • GF1,

          Thanks for all the info. on syn. vs wood stocks and the Red Dot info. Now you got me thinking. And yup, the better the gun, the easier it will be from the start,…. less excuses too! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          So in one way,…. that is a bad thing. Still, glad I did not go that route. The downside,…. it’s all up to me!

          So,…. since I am doing an RAI mod.,…. should I get the wood or syn. .25 M-rod? I do not have a thought either way other than that they are just both butt ugly on stock design/lines. Sorry M-rod lovers. If I had to guess, that will the next M-rod design change. Adj. butt too. But,…. that is just a guess.

          Thanks again for all the info.,…… Chris


          • Chris USA
            If your set on doing the RAI setup. Then get the synthetic stock Mrod. It’s cheaper than the wood stock version. And if you want to get some of your money back you could sell the synthetic stock to somebody.



              • Reb
                Nope the gen2 Mrods changed trigger assembly location and mounting holes.

                I was going to put a 1720tT trigger assembly that I had on my gen1 .25 Mrod on my gen 2 .25 Mrod I have now and it won’t work. If you line the sear up with the striker/hammer on the Gen 2 Mrod tube then the tube holes are in the wrong location. The sear won’t catch the striker/hammer when you try to cock the gun.

                So if you got a gen1 Mrod trigger assembly and stock it would work. But it would have a air gap on each side of the stock because the Mrod has a bigger tube diameter.

                Now you could get a Discovery stock and trigger assembly and then you could put you 2240 HPA conversion right in. You would also need the front trigger assembly bolt lug that holds the assembly to the tube. That is how the stock is held on with a bolt through a hole in the stock.

                And I have done this also. A gen1 Mrod trigger assembly will bolt right on your 2240 HPA gun. Then the Discovery stock will work also. But you won’t have a trigger gaurd. I made a metal one and attached with wood screw to the Discovery stock.

                So the only thing that won’t work that we talked about just now is a gen2 trigger assembly and stock on your 2240.


            • RifleDNA has offered his new Mrod to me for $300.
              I was actually wanting to get a .25 but this one is available at a discount.
              I think it was a.22 which seem to be the least accurate of the Mrods.
              Your thoughts?


        • GF1,

          And,… before anyone suggest Armada,….. that was a move in the wrong direction, in my opinion. Too busy up front.

          How ’bout good looking up front and all business in the back?

          Second thought,….the Armada may be the way to go? Remove all the crap up front and keep the 6 position stock (it is Magpul), cheek riser and bi-pod options. Could save a few hundred over the RAI option? Near?,…. same thing.

          Notes made and will check out the Armada more. Maybe the RAI stock off set option.

          Anyone have an opinion? Chris


          • Chris USA
            You may just had your best idea yet.

            That mwpuld be a good idea I believe with the Armada. Plus your staying with Crosman parts. That way you can get replacement parts for your gun if needed. And that would be cheaper than going the other way with the aftermarket stuff.

            Plus PA is having a St.Patrics day sale right now. 10% off plus free shipping plus 2ร— rewards and a contest to win money. It’s on top of the home page on the rotating banner.


        • GF 1

          My Dad had an old Stevens 12 gage. When I was a little kid I remember one Thanks Giving going to my Uncle’s house when my dad stopped at a sign along the highway for a turkey shoot. When we got out of the car there was all these guys with high end alert guns. Dad came out of the car with that old Stevens and all those guys were looking down there nose at him. I did not figure he had a chance. He some three turkeys in a row a nd we left. Even at ten years I could beat him with a rifle. But I had no idea he could shoot a shotgun like that. My dad was sure my hero that day. I still have the Stevens but I loosened the barrel from the receiver with horseeavy loads goose hunting when I was in high school.

          I did not know Stevens still made shotguns.

          Don


          • Don
            I can remember stuff like that about my dad also. And when we were out hunting together or just plinking. Definitely memories that I’m glad I have. Sure had some good times back then.

            And yes Stevens still makes shot guns. The model I have is a 320 pump. They were originally released in only 12 gauge. Now they offer it in 20 gauge. So I got me a 20 gauge.

            Went out to my brothers right after I got and shot some clays with it a few weeks or so ago. And yep old Gunfun1 still has it in him. I use to bird hunt as a kid. But haven’t hunted for years. So I was happy to know I could still hit. Fun stuff. Plus had my two teenage daughters with me and my brother had his two teenage daughters there also. We was all taking turns and busting clays. Fun fun stuff. Reminded me of when I was kid shooting with my dad.


            • I have a pigeon tosser mounted on the top rail of the deck on our house in the mountains. The kids may shoot close to 1000 shells in a day. The grand kids are just about ready. Sad but I think those days are numbered.



                • GF1

                  Most of the grand kids and their friends seem to be more into video games.

                  We have the Kids and their friends up for a few days and it don’t take eight kids long to go through a lot of shells.

                  I wonder how long it will take all that lead to get to my spring water?? It is down t h e hill from where we shoot.

                  Don


                  • Don
                    Yep that could be a problem with your spring.

                    And both of my daughters are Tom boys. They were having a blast shooting the shot guns. They have shot air guns and rim fire rifles before but never shot guns. Same for my brothers daughters. They all wanted to save their first shot gun shell they shot. Their only about a 110 pounds right now. So I’m surprised they stayed shooting all day. But we wrote on the shot gun shell with a permanent marker their name and date. My oldest daughter goes I’m keeping this shell forever dad.

                    So I’m glad they are at least enjoying it. But they do like to be on a phone or something for a good amount of time. Got to keep things exciting so they keep interested is the way I see it.



      • Chris

        I have both the synthetic and the wood stock for my Marauder. The synthetic is more stream lined and fits the style better IMO. I like the feel of the wood better when shooting; but not by much. Unless you just like wood more I would go with the synthetic.

        I have a 742 Remington 30-06 that is 10x better with synthetic. Recoil is less and accuracy went way up. With the marauder I don’t have much of a preference either way.

        I am thinking of getting a .22 barrel from Marmot. Just the cleaning reminds me too much of black powder.

        You won’t go wrong either way; wood or syn.

        After shooting the Apache Fireball yesterday I had to pull out Marauder to see if I could still shoot. Seven out of ten at 30 yards in one .30 OD hole then 3 more going to .50 cc. It keeps me trying. Next groups will be with lubbed pellets. I think that will help.

        Good luck!

        Don


        • Benji-Don,

          Thanks for your insight on the wood vs syn. topic. Had to question your shooting skills with the Apache huh? ๐Ÿ˜‰ Keep trying. Maybe it will surprise you one day. Sounds like you can still shoot though. That is one nice group!


          • Chris,

            Yea that would have been fantastic shooting. I must have been half asleep; that was my 10 yard target. My thirty yard target was similar in shape I had 7 shots with a .37 cc the other 3 shots took me to .99 cc.

            I would not be considering a hammer forged barrel if my 30 yard groups were that good.

            I still have hope I can approach .4 inch cc groups at 30 yards with my crosman barrel and the right combination of tune and technique. If it was that good out of the box, where is the fun?

            Can’t wait till you get your Marauder and see how it goes.

            Don



      • BB
        That’s what I have exsperianced with those pellets too. It seems that they don’t have that normal fit or feel I should say of the pellet engaging the rifling. They have a fairly thin skirt. Maybe that is what’s sealing to the rifling in the barrel.

        And by chance did you notice if the recoil or vibration changed from using the JSB 10.34’s to the lighter weight Falcons? I have some of the Falcons also. And it seems my spring guns aren’t as violent with the heavier pellet.

        And that makes me wonder. Maybe this Hatsan your testing today would benefit from a even heavier 12 grain pellet of some sort. Might calm the gun down. And for some reason when velocity is lowered with a heavier pellet. That pellet seems to just float out to the same spot on the target. I didn’t want to say lob. But even if the 12 grain pellet went say 750 fps. That could be a nice combination out to maybe 30-40 yards.

        Figured I would throw that thought out at ya to see what you think.



          • BB
            Ok. But what about a heavier 12 grain pellet.

            Have you shot any of the heavy/heavy pellets out of the so called magnum springers. Maybe that’s what’s needed to make them types of guns work.

            And no I haven’t tryed any on magnum springers. But have on the .22 LGU I had. And really no difference from 15 to 18 grn pellets. Didn’t try any heavier than that though. But again that guns not a magnum gun. Maybe the real, real heavy pellet is the trick.


            • GF1,

              To keep this conversation within reason, I will confine my answer to just this rifle. No, I didn’t try anything heavier than 10.6 grains. But smooth shooting is not what I;m after. I want accuracy. Smooth is secondary to that.

              B.B.


              • BB
                Understand your answer without you going into great detail.

                But accuracy comes with smoothness.

                And the thought is there about heavy and smooth. But slowing down the gun with a heavier pellet tends to bring accuracy with a pellet. It just seems that heavy pellet at lower speeds goes to its spot more precisely.

                Kind of like that mph conversion from fps. Take a light car going fast or a heavy car going slow. One of them is easier to control if you have less than ideal conditions. One will keep on plowing on to its destination. Almost like it’s on a rail. The other will not be as stable and get knocked around or off course.

                Like they say in drag racing. Sometimes you got to slow down to go fast. In other words tune the care down and it will make it easier to get from point A to point B. Kind of like a pellet.


                • GF1,

                  I agree with your sentiment, but in my experience, none of the heavier .177 pellets are that accurate. However, in the interest of trying everything, I will pick one or two for the next test and report the findings.

                  B.B.


                  • BB
                    Ok appreciate that.

                    I wish that I would of tryed some in my spring and nitro piston guns throughout time then u wouldn’t be bugging you right now. ๐Ÿ™‚

                    And then even so just like your shooting results today. You might have to try a half dozen heavy pellets to find a good one.

                    But all in all it will be interesting to see it on paper and what your particular gun does compared to what it done now.

                    Oh and the 25 yard mark is fine. And I was also going to mention I like the idea of only 5 shot groups. First you don’t have to work as hard for your results and with a exsperianced eye you can tell pretty well what the gun is going to do with a 5 shot group.

                    Hope they work. But as the saying goes. You never know what’s going to happen till you try.

                    Oh and I know it’s a different power plant. But my .25 Marauder really woke up with the JSB 33.95’s compared to the Barracuda 31.02’s and of course the pellet type and manufacturing process of the pellet may have something to do with that.


  3. Yeah! I’m still here! I do like Woodstock’s! I try to purchase Woodstock first at all cost! If it isn’t wood I don’t usually take much time or interest with the rest of the it! Too many times cheap plastic compounds just don’t cut it! Thank you again for these test and I’m still in the market? Semper fi!


    • J.Lee,

      Interesting point you made on plastic stocks. I would think that mass and density would be a factor. Solid wood -vs- a solid plastic -vs- a plastic stock with “cavities” molded throughout. I would imagine that this might carry over to firearm rifles as well? Actually, I could see solid plastic stock weighing more than wood. Any thoughts from you or others on the topic would be welcomed.


  4. BB.

    Nice shooting. Good to see that the head size makes such a difference.

    By the way : Some repetition in the text under the header “JSB Exact Heavy 10.3-grain”. Probably the best to delete the first two sentences.

    Regards,

    August



  5. And the drunk said to Lady MOBU:
    Lady, tomorrow when I wake up I will be sober but you will still be ugly.
    They should have painted it green, then Shrek could have used it in his garden to prop up his tomato plants.

    Pete


  6. With all due respect the accuracy of this Hatsan 85 MOBU Sniper Combo is looking a lot like, well, other Hatsan’s with a Quattro trigger and SAS.

    I’m reminded of the Hatsan 95 in .22 caliber that B.B. reported on awhile back. With GREAT EFFORT he was able to shoot a 0.792 inch group with RWS Super H Points at 25 yards.

    He scrubbed the barrel in that gun with JB Bore paste (lots of black gunk came out) and tried all kinds of holds and all kinds of pellets. He was finally able to shoot a decent group with one pellet but that required him to softly hold the gun with his off hand touching the back of the cocking slot.

    Twitchy.

    kevin


  7. BB
    Just curious but you commented that the trigger felt heavier than you thought and had some second stage movement but no creep. So do you think if it was adjusted to a short ( no excess movement ) crisp break it may help with the ability to produce better groups by giving you a better feel for when it will break or do you think it would not make a difference.

    I just know the trigger can be adjusted to a very light crisp and clean break in the second stage so was just wondering.

    BD



      • BB
        Ok I was just wondering as I know it can be made a much nicer feeling trigger if a longer screw is installed in the second stage position. I know you don’t and wont change the screw but just curious if you thought it would help with accuracy.

        BD



          • BB
            Its best to get two screw with button head allens of the size 3mm x .7 pitch x15mm long ( the stock screws are only 10mm long and do not have the length for proper adjustment ) for both the first and second stage screws in the trigger. Those would be the two screws in the trigger blade itself with the Forward one being the first stage and the rearward one the second stage.

            Before removing the stock screws from the trigger blade take notice of or a picture of the relationship of the distances they are screwed into the trigger blade between the two screws to be able to set the new screws to the same point as a preliminary start point. Remember the new screws are 5mm longer so they will be sticking out of the trigger farther so its the relationship you are looking at not the length out of the trigger blade. Take the new 15mm screws and on a grinder or with a file grind a rounded profile like the stock screws removed have to give a smooth end for the trigger secondary sear to slide against. Then install the screws in the trigger to the approximate relationship as the stock ones only keep in mind you will have 5mm more screw protruding from the trigger due to the extra length.

            Then there should be a window on the side of the housing that you can see the secondary sear engagement much like a TX or Rekord trigger has in it. You can manually set the trigger in the cocked position with a small screwdriver thru the window by moving the forward release cam forward until the secondary sear moves up to latch on it. Slowly turn each screw in by 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time until you see an approx. sear engagement of 3/32 to 1/16″ thru the window and test pull the trigger to see the movement of the sear and if you can feel a definite click or light stop at the second stage wall. If you feel that click or light stop it can be test fired to see if it has the definite second stage wall in it and if so then its just a matter of very fine adjustments of the second stage screw to refine the release point and weight to your liking (1/16 of a turn or less at this point as a little makes a huge difference).

            BB
            It is sometimes a tedious and time consuming process so if you decide not to undertake the mod I will understand and if it will help I can send you some of the correct screws with the noses already rounded. All I would need is an shipping address and I can send you my email address to your personal blog address as I have it if you would like me to do that for you. It is actually no different than adjusting a TX or Rekord trigger its just the screws provided by Hatsan are not long enough to allow the proper adjustment to be achieved due to the lawyer liabilities I would suspect as it can be set to an unsafe and hair trigger if you are not familiar with the process of which I have no doubts you know what you are doing in that respect.

            Thanks and let me know if you want me to send the screws.

            BD


            • BD,

              Thank you. I think I can take it from here. Otho has lots of metric fasteners, so I will start with him, but if I need to I will buy the screw at Home Depot. You don’t need to send anything.

              I will follow your instructions and see what we get.

              Thank you,

              B.B.


              • Bb
                Sounds good and I do appreciate you doing it as I know you have plenty on your plate. I think you will be surprised at the difference in the trigger it makes and how much better it makes it to shoot easily.

                Looking forward to the next report.

                BD


      • My experience with the Quattro trigger has been that the first stage screw needed replacing in order to eliminate or reduce the first stage to a minimum and that the second stage stock screw had enough adjustment headroom. Adjusting the second stage is more of a challenge as the stock trigger cartridge allows for some side to side movement of the trigger so unless you are skilled enough and or willing to dissemble and shim it up its best to keep it above 2lbs pull. I have a 125 sniper vortex piston and with my limited experience i thought the forward movement only feel of the rifle was due to the gas spring. Well so i have learned that its the more the SAS than the powerplant. My first 125 had to be sent back as it was throwing pellets around until it became very obvious its factory piston seal was failing. As i have now learned the factory piston & breech seals are poor the piston seals being slightly undersized and the breech seals are soft and ill fitting. I dont have any experience with the 85, but my 125 shoots different than any other air rifle i have shot and in trying to get some sort of results have found that for me and the forward lunge recoil for the lack of a better description has me moving my hand further out and that has helped my accuracy. I am a big guy with a long reach and it might be helping me in this respect though, but the 85 is smaller so well good luck. My suspicion is that the gun has a mechanical problem as those groups look bad even for open sights on a poor gun. One other thing you might want to pop that silencer cartridge and look for fin damage and even though mine was after they fixed the problem i found that ihad to sand the unbroken fins a little to make it right. Good luck.




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