by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
FWB P44 target pistol is Tom Gaylord’s dream airgun!
FWB P44 10-meter target pistol: Part 1
FWB P44 10-meter target pistol: Part 2
FWB P44 10-meter target pistol: Part 3
Morini 162MI Part 1
Morini 162MI Part 2
Morini 162MI Part 3
This report covers:
- A test of 2 target pistols
- P44 benefits
- Today’s test
- H&N Finale Match Pistol
- Sig Sauer Match Ballistic Alloy
- Vogel pellets
- Qiang Yuan Olympic pellets
- Qiang Yuan Match pellets
- RWS R10 Pistol
Today we start testing the accuracy of the FWB P44 10-meter target pistol. Normally I test accuracy one time and then either end the series or move on to other things, but in this report I want to show you something different. I’ll start doing that today. I spent time adjusting the pistol to fit me perfectly in Part 3, and now I will take some time discovering which pellet is the best for the gun. So there will be several accuracy sessions before I finish this series.
A test of 2 target pistols
I also want to remind you that I am comparing the P44 to the Morini 162MI 10-meter target pistol that I tested earlier this year. That’s why I have linked to all those reports at the top of the page. When I bought the P44, the president of Pyramyd Air asked me why I chose it over the Morini. I had to think about it a while, because the Morini is a better value on the surface. It comes with 2 air tanks, where the P44 comes with just one for a slightly higher price. However, there are several things I like better about the P44.
The P44 grips fit me almost perfectly right out of the box. The Morini grips need work. The P44 has a smaller test group than the Morini. In fact it is the smallest test group I have ever seen on any target airgun! That’s no guarantee the gun will shoot any better, but it is a confidence-builder. The P44’s grips have more adjustments that I have now dialed-in to suit myself. And the P44 has that anti-recoil mechanism that makes the gun absolutely dead neutral when it fires. I have not adjusted it yet and there is still some movement with the gun, but I will look at that in an upcoming report.
Today I’m going to shoot the pistol off a sandbag rest, held at arm’s length so I can see the sights correctly. I am sighting with my eye that had the detached retina, and the vision is not back to 100 percent yet, but according to a test by the eye doctor that eye now sees 20/20. Before it was about 20/30. I will be keeping both eyes open and today I won’t be using my prescription shooting glasses. Safety glasses, yes.
The target will be a 10-meter pistol target placed at the regulation 10 meters. Except for how I hold the gun, this will be a realistic test of the pistol.
I plan to shoot 5-shot groups, because with 10-meter target guns the groups get very confusing with 10 shots. It’s difficult to pick out the individual pellet holes when there are that many shots. And 5-shot groups allow me to shoot more kings of pellets, which is the primary goal today. Let’s get to it.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
First up were H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets with a 4.50mm head. I had no idea how the pistol was sighted, but this test is looking at group size — not scores. Five pellets landed in a rather vertical group that measures 0.815 inches between centers. That puts this pellet out of the running, unless I discover that I cannot shoot, because of my injured eye.
Five H&N Finale Match pistol pellets made this vertical group that measures 0.815-inches between centers. This is not good for a 10-meter target pistol!
Notice that the Finale Match pellets struck the target high and somewhat to the right. After seeing where they hit I adjusted the rear sight down about 8-10 clicks. I’m not interested in hitting the 10-ring today, but I wanted to be closer than where the Finale Match pellets landed. This was the one and only time I adjusted the sights for today’s test.
Sig Sauer Match Ballistic Alloy
Next I tried Sig Sauer Match Ballistic Alloy pellets. This lead-free pellet has been surprising me every time I test it in an accurate airgun. In the P44 five pellets grouped in 0.443-inches. That’s much better than the Finale Match Pistol pellets, but still not quite as good as I had hoped.
Five Sig Sauer Match Ballistic Alloy pellets groups in 0.443-inches between centers at 10 meters. It’s better, but still not quite what I wanted.
The next pellets I tried were Vogel pellets with 4.50mm heads that are made and sold by Scott Pilkington, of Pilkguns. I have read some good reports on these pellets, and I believe they are being used at the world cup level of competition, so they seemed worth a try. Five Vogels went into 0.242-inches at 10 meters. This is the level of accuracy I was looking for!
Five Vogel pellets with 4.50mm heads went into 0.242-inches at 10 meters. Now, we’re cookin’!
Qiang Yuan Olympic pellets
The next pellet I tried was the Qiang Yuan Olympic pellet. I got a result that is difficult to interpret, so I will have to test this pellet again. On shot number 3 I pulled the shot low and to the right. The final group appears to be 4 pellets in a tight cluster that measures 0.163-inches between centers. The other hole is definitely low, but not to the right. In fact it is slightly to the left. If this is a single pellet hole, then this pellet shows huge potential, but the hole is not that clear. Two pellets could have passed through — it’s simply too close to call. This is a pellet I will definitely need to re-test.
The Quiang Yuan Olympic pellet may be the best for this P44. If the top group contains 4 pellets and I know that the low shot was called as a pull, then this will be the one to beat. Four (?) pellets in 0.163-inches and the pulled shot opens the group to 0.612-inches.
Qiang Yuan Match pellets
Next up were Qiang Yuan Match pellets. While less expensive than the Olympic pellets, these still cost $32.48 for 500, so they are no bargain. But if they are good, I don’t care what they cost. This time there was no called pull, but I still got a flier. Four pellets are in 0.176-inches, and the flier opens that to 0.499-inches. I will have to try them again, to know for sure.
Five Qiang Yuan match grade pellets went into 0.499-inches, with 4 of them clustered in a tantalizingly tight 0.176-inch hole. I definitely need to test this pellet again.
RWS R10 Pistol
My final pellet for this test was the RWS R10 Match Pistol. Five went into a group that measures 0.340-inches. There is a smaller cluster of 4 in 0.142-inches, which puts the R10 Pistol pellet on the list to be tested again. There were no fliers called.
Five RWS R10 Pistol pellets went into 0.340-inches at 10 meters, but once again there is a clister of 4 in 0.142-inches.
From the best groups, I can see that I’m still able to aim with my damaged eye. So I’m setting that concern aside and proceeding as if nothing is wrong.
The following pellets had mediocre results and will not be tested again.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
Sig Sauer Match Ballistic Alloy
And these pellets need a second test.
Qiang Yuan Olympic
Qiang Yuan Match
RWS R10 Pistol
This was an interesting test. The P44 surprised me with the potential for stunning accuracy, but it will take another test to sort out which pellets work and which don’t. I’m looking forward to it.
50 thoughts on “FWB P44 10-meter target pistol: Part 4”
Does FWB tell you which pellet they used for the test group? Are you checking the pellets with the pelletgage?
No, and no. I’m shooting straight from the box.
As I said before the Vogel pellets are what is used at our local CMP range for training and I do believe a lot of the Olympic shooters that train there also use them as well so I can attest to the very good accuracy they produce as I do buy some from time to time to target shoot in my backyard as well.
Also at 8.75 tax included for 500 they are a great deal price wise as well.
Buldawg, the other day we were discussing the Mrod pumper possibilities.
A friend in the UK sent me this.
I will try a link and an image.
It’s built on a Crosman 761xl multi pump with a dump valve.
Now, it’s a regulated multi pump, with a 3 shot capability.
It’s regulated to sub 12ftlb. By law.
But if it can be built on the tube arrangement of the 76x platform, I don’t see why it can’t be done with the marauder.
By the way, the 761xl was brought out in 1972.
Here’s a photo of a late model 761 that had been modded.
Here is something to read. There is alot of comments but I think there is some interesting things discussed. Book mark it and read it when you can.
But one thing I brought up was the Benjamin 392 ACP. You might find that to be a interesting gun.
But here’s the link I was talking about.
That’s a cool looking gun and to me is kind of a cross between a 761 and a 392/397 with the long forearm for pumping and the butt stock with metal receiver in the middle.
While it fits the bill for a multi shot pumper very well for me being limited to only 12 fpe is not what I am seeking in my request of a Mrod based pumper. The 12 fpe is great for small pesting and plinking but nowhere near enough for varmint hunting or long range plinking.
I want a gun that can reach out to 100 yards and also shoot in my back yard at 20 to 35 yards by just turning a few screws.
Still glad to know they are out there but since its in England it would likely be far to costly to get here if they will even ship to us in the states.
I was just putting the info out there as its been done before.
The tinkerers among us have the skills to figure out one on this side of the pond.
Agreed on that as it has been done here with the millennium pumper that is being sold in limited number right now.
Yes, I followed the millennium pumper project on the GTA, right up until the final price was published.
And delivery was made to the first 10 people.
It’s within a couple of hundred dollars of the FX INDY.
And you get FX accuracy, quality, and the importers warranty.
The low production numbers and amount of hand fitting of the millennium pumper will require that the price remain high.
Agreed in that it is in the higher price range due to its low production and hand fitted quality requirements.
It is out of my price range that I would be willing to pay for a pumper so that’s why I hope that crosman will consider the Mrod pumper as an future product.
If I am going to spend in the 4 figure range for an air gun it will be a high end PCP not a pumper and is what I am saving for now.
So if crosman can/will not build it for 600 or less then I am out of the running for one since I believe it can be built for basically the same selling price as a Mrod gets now and a decent profit made on it by crosman.
I understand why you chose the FWB over the Morini. If Pyramid Air carried them, I would have chosen one of these, http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/match-guns-mgh1-hybrid.html. What does an electric trigger do that a mechanical one does not?
That’s a nice-looking air pistol.
I tested the Morini 162 E with an electronic trigger many years ago and as far as I am concerned, the electronic trigger can do nothing that a mechanical one cannot do. The feel is identical.
Upon reflection I think they exist because they might be easier to adjust to exactly the let-off pressure desired, where mechanical triggers require some fiddling to get them dialed in. I always sweat the trigger test at the start of every match, because there are some ham-fisted judges who do not know how to test a trigger properly. I guess with an electronic trigger if it was set to release at 504 grams, you wouldn’t worry about that ever changing. But with a mechanical trigger there is always the concern that maybe it hasn’t been tested correctly.
Other than that I think electronic triggers are a gimmick — like the size of your diver’s watch. If it is electronic (bigger) it must be better — right?
If it is Rolex, it must be better….LOL
You know, I almost said that exact thing! 😉
We always called that the new shooter mentality.
If it’s bigger, it’s got to be better.
How long will it take for your eye to heal?
I hope it is not something that will require surgery, or liquid nails.
When I shoot a new gun sometimes it takes me a bit of time to get dialed into the gun. How do you overcome this so that you can test pellets effectively?
You must have missed the beginning of my problem. I already had eye surgery, back at the end of April.
A detached retina is not a good thing to have. I may never recover all of my sight, although the doctor does believe I am recovering very well so far. I have heard of about 20 cases of this and only one or two have fully recovered. I do feel fortunate that I was operated on the day after it happened and that my doctor is the top retina specialist in the southwest.
As far as getting dialed in, I have that, too. I think the first group might have suffered from that a little, although in tomorrow’s blog my first group is also the best.
If you’re seeing 20/20 out of the injured eye, you couldn’t be doing much better. Do you still use the chair that has you facing downward?
Yes, I do.
I see 20/20, but the images from the two eyes are not perfectly superimposed. It’s impossible to describe what I see, but it’s like having water in one eye as you look.
Doesn’t look like I’ll get much chance to shoot tonight but in the spirit of pistols I think I may shoot the p17.
B.B. your dedication and skill impresses me! Thats good shooting for anybody let alone a guy with a retina surgically reattached!
I just got caught up on yesterdays posts. Yeah that little weirauch is something very special. I hope I swayed at least one person wearing similiar shoes on getting one. I can’t believe how much fun I was having. It is the epitome of what I want from this hobby/sport.
I like when guys have something interesting to say and Matt61 is definitely one of those guys!
I think I may try to setup a longer indoor range tonight. But that will banish the wife to the bedroom or kitchen probably. Maybe not a bad idea for an hour? Lol just kidding. She was playing dumb yesterday. I think she knows it is a new gun but I can’t be sure… I’ll wait a month and bust myself out to her. 🙂
If she knows it a new gain I don’t think you will get that month to bust yourself out as she probably already has a plan in the works to let you know you are busted. Glad you are happy with it and enjoying it.
If she is like my wife it will be subtle but effective. LOL
The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.
Well said! Yeah she saw the new owners manual laying on the table and took an innocent glance this morning at it.
She has been noticing the extra time I’ve been spending on here recently and mentioned it to me. Basically she said she’s glad I have found a better way to spend my free time. I think I have won her over. If only I could figure how to make it easier for her to shoot my 392 I think I would have a shooting partner. 😉
She shot the new 30 yesterday and the only thing she said was she doesn’t like the “jump” and she likes the one “with the loading handle” talking about the bolt on the 392.
O yeah I love it and can’t shut up about it!
It sounds as though she is ok with your new hobby and its good that she is willing to enjoy it with you as well. I can see the issue with the recoil of the HW versus the pumper since my wife has the same issues.
She is a leftie as well so that adds to the problem of her shooting most of my guns that are not equipped with an ambi stock.
The 392s are a workout to pump up if you get past 3 pumps but you can always use the excuse that her pumping it to shoot it will firm up her chest and add definition to her appearance, or maybe not depending on how she might react. You will need to be the judge on that.
The ideal solution is a PCP for both of you to enjoy since you can do the pumping with a hand pump to fill it and then she can shoot for 20 or more shot with just having to cock the hammer and load pellets but you likely will never get to shoot it your self. LOL.
Just keep her interested enough while you drop a hint here and there and miracles may happen.
You can get a good PCP setup for a little over what the HW cost if you watch the sales that would include the gun and hand pump.
Yeah I think long term a pcp will be best for us. I think if she shows enough interest I may end up with a co2 shooter for her. She is definitely a fair weather shooter. She used to shoot my old slingshot quite a bit last summer. She was definitely better with it than I. But she didn’t shoot it super well so by the wayside it went.
She is shorter so her LOP is shorter as well. The thirty looks big on her shoulder and in her hands. She will probably fit a youth gun well. I will tell her about the defining benefit of pumping, I’m sure she will get a kick out of it! 🙂
Well it sounds like she has a sense of humor anyway so that good and I bet she will laugh at the pumping benefits I mentioned.
I had not thought about a CO2 gun to be honest and if she is a pistol shooter then a 2240 is a very cheap alternative and add a 1399 stock and you have a short LOP carbine that are accurate and fun to shoot.
It may be worth looking into one of those for her.
My wife is a better shot with a pistol (PB ) than I am as well and she does not let me forget it. LOL.
I would love to have my wife whip me at pistol shooting. We like to compete with one another on fun meaningless things.
I immediately thought of the 1077 but I’m worried about the trigger pull. Although I think I will probably get one to share with my bros especially since I have a silhouette set now. My middle brother hates the recoil of a Springer. My youngest brother is a natural born athlete and can shoot as good as I but I think he holds back because he thinks he might upset me? But when form is the deciding factor I ususally win. Only because I care to put in the extra effort.
Maybe a plain Jane qb78 would work out for her? Thats a good idea on the 1399 stocks. A 2240 is hard to come by locally. (As far as I have noticed) I would really like to have one of those though.
I feel the same way and am actually proud to have a wife that is such a good shot especially since she is 5’2″ and 110 pounds and is deadly with a 9mm Taurus semi auto at 50 feet and closer which is what most self defense situation would be. She also has a CCP as well so and is armed more than not in public.
The 1077 does have a heavy trigger pull since it is cycling the hammer and rotating the magazine when pulled so that would be a complete new issue in itself.
A QB 78 is a good choice as well and I have a 78 and 79 but have paintball bottles on them so they are also HPA set ups for high shoot counts.
I do have a 2240 that it just happen is completely stock and is for sale so if you would be interested in a good deal on it send me an email at buldawg76 at cableone dot net.
Just replace the words with the appropriate symbols.
You would have to call crosman for the 1399 stock or search Ebay for one but don’t pay more than 29.99 for one plus 4 bucks shipping as that how much it is from crosman.
Just emailed you.
Thats pretty awesome about your wife’s abilities! I was on the fence and almost bought a qb79 repeater instead of the hw30. I think I will just save up and get the hpa version and use my old paintball tank from aways back. But that will be my second pcp rifle I think. I really like a few different ones with the mrod and the air arms 200 target. (Cz made I believe?) Got to be highly adjustable though and all the guys on here have proved the mrod totally is!
Got it and responded.
Yea it makes me a lot more comfortable when she is out alone knowing she can protect herself very well.
The QBs are neat guns but nothing even close to the HW in terms of quality or value so you made the right choice now. All you need to buy is the QB79 without the CO2 tank and your paintball tank will thread right into the tank block that is already installed on the 79. You don’t need the full combo that gives you the CO2 tank with it.
The Mrod is a real good value and very tunable so it to me is the small block chevy of the air gun world. I just wish Air Arms would not have discontinued the S200 since it shoots fast enough to be a very nice FT gun and the T200 only shoot at 10M velocities although it may be able to be turned up to shoot at FT fps just not sure but you can still get the CZ S200 version.
Or even a crosman 1077 would be a good cheap light gun that would fit her well.
How about a Crosman 2260 for mama? Very accurate, easy ro shoot. Plus she can mod it !
Yeah I have totally considered that rifle! The only thing keeping me down on that is the fact that Illinois considers .22 caliber pellet rifles to be firearms. I may just have to break down and pay a transfer fee. Gotta keep mama happy!
No Illinois does not consider a .22 air gun a firearm anymore.
If a air gun is over .180 caliber and shoots faster than 700 fps you can still get it. But it has to be registered like a firearm.
And you can get a .177 caliber air gun in any feet per second you want.
But also you need to check the law for restrictions in certain county’s. By Chicago is suppose to be not good.
Let me know if you look into it.
Yeah Ur right I was saying that incorrectly. Some local stores still differ. At the local dunhams you need a FOID to buy any magnum Springer or gun over 700fps and they have to see a FOID to give you the .22 caliber pellets from behind the counter. The local big R’s sold me a hatsan 95 without even batting an eye. I guess it’s their right to do what they want as long as they enforce the state law?
Yep them laws get alittle tricky the way they word them. Makes me wonder if they do that on purpose just to confuse the matter.
You may want to take a look at the Crosman Custom Shop 2400KT. It will give a great shooting carbine in either 177 or 22. Basic plus 18″ barrel plus wide trigger shoe is less than $100. There is a multi part blog on this site by HiveSeeker that details his and his wife’s 2400s.
I have both a 2400 and a QB78. I don’t believe that you can go wrong itch either gun.
Thanks for that. I remember reading about that now. The 2400kt may be a good way to go as well.
Yep a longer range would make things a little more fun.
But sounds like your happy with it. If I was going to get another break barrel springer I would definitely get a HW30 over a 50 this time around. Them lower velocity are nice to shoot.
But have fun with it. Keep us updated on how it’s doing for you.
GF1 and all who are following.
Shot some promising groups today. I have never used a front aperature sight before let alone spelled it! Lol I had some really tight 5/16-3/8 clusters of 5-7 pellets and then some really bad fliers. About 40 rounds in my groups started to open up as my mental fatigue set in from the day. I only shot one Crosman pointed pellet and my new buddy hated it! It vibrated really badly. So no more crosmans it looks like. AA7.33 HN ftt 8.64 (4.52) and superdomes seemed best out of what I had. Miesterkuglen did pretty OK. All at 10 yards with a 5-10mph fairly steady cross wind. Indoor range needs to wait till weekend.
Are you bench resting the gun?
And try some of these. They are pretty good.
Glad to hear your vision is returning. I work professionally with people who are blind or visually impaired so vision changes are not something to trifle with. My phone tells me that 500 grams equals 17.637 ounces. So Olympic pistol and rifle can’t be set any lower than one pound two ounces. Some of the field Target guys I shoot with have their triggers set at less than 6 ounces. That’s what we used to call a hair trigger. I had a percussion revolver with a hair trigger. It sure shot accurately but scared me to death. I ended up giving it back to the guy who gave it to me in the first place. A hair trigger has no place in hunting Firearms or around children who are learning to shoot.
Only air pistols have a trigger pull limit. The rifles can be set as low as they will go.
Late on a comment,…. too busy this AM. Those are some fine groups, at least from eyes. Me?,…. add a 1.XXX and you got it. Very cool to see some top end stuff getting tested.
B.B., Oh boy, here comes my criticism; Your accuracy testing off a sand bag is abjectly useless. ALL ACCURACY
testing of any target pistol, MUST be done from a vised platform. Your sand bag test reveals one thing; as you
worked your way through the pellet selection; the groups improved. This tells me that it was you that developed
improved accuracy shooting off the bag. All the pellets you tested would hit upon the inner ten ring if shot from a
vised platform. This is the reason that Scott Pilkington, and that Arizona rascal “Rover” discourage any pellet
testing of modern 10 M air pistols. All modern 10 Meter APs are capable of stacking “Quality” pellets onto the
inner ten ring. “Rover’s” very intensive pellet testing showed that during one of his massive testing sessions,
Rws Basics yielded the second tightest group of the session. JSB Green tin produced the tightest group that day.
During another test session, H&N Finale match pellets made the tightest group. Rover used a homemade vised
platform for his testing.
Okay, It’s now time for some empathy and compassionate thoughts. I wish you the best
and rapid recovery form your eye surgery. There may be some permanent impairment, you can overcome that.
I had a stroke in my right eye(Arteriosclerosis) that caused the central located photo receptors to die resulting in
blindness in my central sight picture. To see anything with my right eye, I have to use averted vision. Since then
I have had dethatched vitreous several times in both eyes; and I’ve had cataract surgery in both eyes. Yet, I still
participate in occasional Bullseye matches, 10 meter air pistol and 50 meter (Free Pistol) matches. I shoot these
events using open sights, I shoot cross dominant left eye/.right hand hold. Best of luck;
This reminds me of the mouthwatering descriptions in PA’s latest catalogue including one on a new target pistol by Air Venturi which is only a little more than my Daisy 747. I couldn’t help wanting it although I love the Daisy. Also, I have a special soft spot for the HN match pellets which are about the only ones which make my Walther Nighthawk shootable. Otherwise the trigger is impossibly heavy.
Bob M, I guess the key is knowing if your .45 round was really shot straight up. Who shoots off handguns at airports? Although I wouldn’t put anything past the TSA. There was a story that a guy tried to take a full loaded Beretta M92 through security at the Sacramento airport. They just made him put the gun back in his car and then let him through. At that same airport, I had a bag with a 30-06 round accidentally left behind from the shooting range, and they were highly displeased.
Fido3030, I suspect that the WWI officers, leading from the front, had a shorter life expectancy than that of the enlisted men although they were probably not far behind.
On another note, last night I held my own against the Judo Club President after taking off my surgical boot last week. I take this as a triumph of age and experience against youth. He he. So, hang in there with those rehab programs.
I forgot about the ” leading from the front stuff.” the real monsters were like general haig who never visited the battlefield and sent men forward through the flooded fields in Flanders.
There was a Frenchman in the late thirties who saw another war coming. He sold everything and to get as far away as possible bought a plantation in the South Seas…….on Guadalcanal