Crosman 101 multi-pump pneumatic: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

A history of airguns

Crosman 101

Crosman 101 multi-pump pneumatic.

This report covers:

  • Different test
  • Crosman Premiers
  • Peep sight adjustment
  • Back to Premiers
  • JSB Exact RS
  • H&N Baracuda Match — 5.53mm head
  • Eley Wasps
  • RWS Superpoints
  • Overall evaluation

Today we look at the accuracy of the .22-caliber Crosman 101 multi-pump pneumatic. Although I have owned it for many years, it isn’t an airgun I shoot a lot, so this will be as interesting to me as it is to you.

Different test

Because the rifle is so difficult to both cock and load, I shot 5-shot groups today instead of the usual 10. All shooting was done off a sandbag rest at 10 meters. I did find the tiny peep hole a bit challenging to use with my recovering eye, but it was possible. I had the target attached to the backstiop on its side, so all the bulls appear sideways. Let’s see how the rifle did.

Crosman Premiers

Because this is a Crosman rifle, I started the test shooting 14.3-grain Crosman Premier pellets. The first shot went very high and to the left, so it was time to adjust the peep sight.

Peep sight adjustment

The way this peep sight works, if it is adjusted below a certain point it interferes with the bolt, which will not open far enough to load the rifle. Cocking is via a separate knob, and is unaffected, but loading is a problem.

Crosman 101 bolt

The bolt has a pin (arrow) that sticks up above the receiver when it is opened. The pin contacts the peep sight crossbar and will not allow the bolt to open far enough to load the rifle.

I adjusted the peep as low as It would go and also as far to the right. Then I started the test.

Back to Premiers

The Premiers were now hitting the bottom of the bull, but were still too far to the left. If I want to do better, I’ll either have to modify the existing peep sight for more adjustability or I will have to make a new crossbar with greater range. I think if I do that I will also open the peep hole a little, because it is really hard to see! Five Premiers went into a group at 10 meters than measures 0.499-inches between centers. That’s a half-inch in my book. Not great, but as it turned out, it was the best group of this test.

Crosman 101 Crosman Premier target

Five pellets went into 0.499-inches at 10 meters, once the sights were adjusted. That high shot is where the rifle was originally sighted.

JSB Exact RS

For the second test I tried some JSB Exact RS pellets. Because they are soft with thin skirts, I had thought they might be more accurate in the 101. Alas, that was not the case. Five RS pellets went into 0.653-inches at 10 meters. Even though the sights were not adjusted from the last group, the RS pellets went higher.

Crosman 101 JSB Exact RS target

Five JSB Exact RS pellets made this 0.653-inch group at 10 meters.

H&N Baracuda Match 5.53mm head

Do you remember what I said about why I chose the H&N Baracuda Match with 5.53mm head for this test? I thought the barrel was too big and perhaps the rifling wasn’t that prominent, and I thought the 5.53mm head might help that. Well, it did load much harder than the first two pellets had. I could definitely feel that large head entering the rifling. Unfortunately my theory was incorrect. Five Baracudas went into 0.974-inches at 10 meters. That was the second-worst group of the test by a tiny margin. And notice how horizontal that group is, compared to the first two groups. Baracuda Match pellets are definitely not the right pellets for this rifle. Crosman 101 H&N Baracuda Match 5.53mm head target

Five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 5.53mm heads went into 0.974-inches at 10 meters.

 

Eley Wasps

I tried Eley Wasps next. These are 5.56mm pellets and they also went into the breech hard. Being larger than the Baracudas. I had some hope for them. But no dice. They gave me the worst group of the test by a tiny margin. — 0.986-inches between centers.

Crosman 101 Eley Waspr target

Eley Wasps gave the worst group of the test. Five went onto 0.986-inches between centers at 10 meters.

RWS Superpoints

The Crosman 101 is a vintage airgun, and I sometimes select RWS Superpoint pellets for vintage guns. They work well in Hakims. And apparently they also work well in Crosman 101s. Five Superpoints went into a 0.597-inch group at 10 meters. The group is nice and round, too. That’s what I like to see.

Crosman 101 RWS Superpoint target

Five RWS Superpoint pellets made this 0.597-inch group at 10 meters.

Overall evaluation

That was a good look at a classic. My Crosman 101 is a funky old airgun. It looks funky and it shoots funky. It’s not much on performance, but there’s something about the look that keeps me coming back for more. I don’t shoot it as lot, but I do want it in my collection.

138 thoughts on “Crosman 101 multi-pump pneumatic: Part 3

  1. Well I think this would be a fun plinking gun. I would like to have it. Kind of a unique gun.

    And this is off subject. BB did a blog on a spotting scope. This one.
    /blog/2016/06/meopro-hd-80-spotting-scope-part-1/#comments

    And he mentioned it could accept a iPhone to take pictures and videos. Well I decided to search and see if I could find something that would attach to a rifle scope. And I found a adapter and phone back plate on Amazon and posted the link. Well JimQwerty123 posted a link to the product website and it had some cool video’s. I bookmarked it. Here it is.
    http://www.iscope.com

    Well I ordered the scope adapter and correct back plate to mount my phone. The adapter is suppose to be here Saturday. But the back plate is about a week or so out.

    All I can say is I’m excited. I’m ready to take some video with my Mrod shooting out at a hundred yards. Hopefully I can capture some pellets flying to the target. And can’t wait to show some pictures of laser shots and holdovers with my Talon SS.

    Been wanting to do something like this for awhile now. And finally will be happening. I’m happy.




        • GF1,

          I know their products or at least similar work, however when their spokesperson is a comedian and they show a soldier with one of these mounted on his weapon, it tends to make me skeptical.


          • RR
            Yes I know.

            But the adapter will be here today. The part that mounts to the scope. The back plate that mounts the phone to the adapter won’t be here till next week.

            And I was messing around yesterday with my phone and the .25 Marauder. I had my bi-pod legs resting on my bench and the gun resting on my shoulder. Then I took my left hand and held the phone to the eye piece on the scope and was looking at my target out at 50 yards. It worked great. My phone has a 0-4× magnification for the camera by sliding your finger on the screen.

            It all worked very well by me just holding the phone. I could zoom in and out on the reticle and make it big or small. If the back plate and adapter can hold the phone better than I can I’m predicting it’s going to work real well. I can’t wait for it to get here and to get it mounted.








          • Jim
            Got the adapter yesterday and it comes with the back plate for a iPhone 4 I believe it said. The back plate is smaller than my phone and the hole in it for the camera lens is in a different location than my phone. Which I knew when I ordered it. My phone is Droid Maxx. I orderd the back plate for it already but it’s not suppose to be here till next week.

            So can’t give no update on how it works yet. But the adapter is made nice. It’s made from aluminum and has a sliding adjustment to position the phone at different distances to get the eye relief correct for the camera lens I’m guessing. And the back plate that comes with it is a type of hard plastic. But it does attach to the adapter with 3 Allen screws. So it is pretty solidly made.

            We will see next week what it’s all about. Hope it works out good.


      • Howdy Ridgey, you sly wry devil. That one was so dry I hadta drink a cold one before I could even laugh. Well done. You vewy funny man, make me raf rong time! Have a great weekend. Shoot/ride safe.
        Beaz


        • Hey Beaz,

          I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to catch on.

          No, I do not take very many pictures with my phone. I do have a couple of nice cameras that take real good pictures though. My phone even works real good as a phone.


    • GF1,

      Cool product and videos. I can see where that would be of some real use for someone with vision issues. Holding the gun steady (proper) would be a challenge,… and still see the phone screen. Fine for airgunning, but I would still want a good proper hold on a hard kicking firearm. I suppose that moving the scope full forward might help. Regardless, it works.

      Hopefully you can post us all a video. I will be looking into baby monitor cameras this weekend to get an up close view of 100 yard targets/holes. That was Fido3030’s idea.


      • Chris USA
        Once the adapter is attached to the scope and it gets located right it should be good.

        It will be just like that experiment I talked about when you hold your head in different places. As long as you hold the reticle steady on the target you can shoot good groups. Fido3030 verified that by putting a whole in the scope lens cover off center. Then rotated the cover into different positions and was still able to see the reticle and place it on target.

        It should actually make it easier to shoot. It will be similar to how my Talon SS is when I shoot. I can hold it at my waiste. As long as I can place the laser on my target and hold it there I’ll hit. The phone should basically be the same as long as I can see the reticle.

        And if you navigate back to the home page on that website there is a video section you can click on with alot more cool video’s.

        And yes I saw that when Fido3030 mentioned the baby monitor to see the pellets hit the target. You know something else cool about that idea. They have sound usually also. So you should be able to hear how long it takes for the pellet to get to the target and how loud the thump sounds when the pellet hits. I like the monitor idea mostly for the sound part of it.

        If I had the monitor at the target and took video with the scope mounted phone. I should be able to capture the shot and hear the pellet hit on the receiver for the monitor setting by me. That’s if my phone takes sound video. I never tryed with sound.

        But we’ll see. I hope it works.


    • This may be a neat toy and idea and the manufacturer’s site has some great testimonials, but please read the unbiased reviews on Amazon from folks who actually bought the item and used it. I believe the jury is still out on whether or not this item really works as advertised. Maybe more tweaking is needed to make it more functional???

      Bob


      • Bob
        Yep I know about the reviews. I like to tinker. So maybe I can see what is the problem when I get one. Maybe a simple fix. I don’t know.

        But if it does work it will be a whole lot cheaper than buying some good camera equipment. I got my fingers crossed.



      • Matt61
        You don’t know how excited I am.

        I just hope it works how I like. Or should I say how I think I want it to work. If it does work. I will be a happy camper.


  2. BB,

    If the picture showing the rear peep and the pin is where the sight is now, you can flip the sight over to the right and slide it back to the middle to get a lot more adjustment.



      • BB,

        My thinking was that the screw was not directly below the aperture, but off to one side some which could possibly allow you to loosen the screw and “roll” the sight to another flat. On further study I see the screw is centered on the flat and directly below the aperture.

        It does indeed seem that the only alternative is to “lengthen” the slot a bit or apply a bit of Kentucky windage when you shoot it.


  3. I really think this would be a cool air rifle rebuild project. I could see having the aluminum parts cleaned and anodized and the steel beaded and either blued or cerakote. Take the stocks and have them copied in a nice grade of walnut.

    Yeah I know, the collectors are cringing. I have been thinking of doing just that with my Daisy Model 99.


    • RidgeRunner,

      I am just in the process of rebuilding my 101 and I like your idea of anodizing the aluminum parts. I plan on refinishing with Aqua-fortis which really accentuates the grain in the maple stock.

      If you like old rifles, this is a nice one to shoot. Seems that they are readily available and reasonably priced.

      B.B.’s rifle is hard to cock because it is tuned up, stock rifles are easy to load.

      Hank


      • Hank,

        If you are fortunate to pick one up with the wood in decent shape, you can indeed be quite surprised what a little work can bring out.

        I have seen a couple of these air rifles that have been refinished. Yes, the “collector” value was ruined, but they sure did look nice.


  4. It’s a shame that the Crosman 101 is not at all common in the UK, as i’m a big fan of all things multi pump, exhaust valve, and funky.. There is a blog called ‘Ricks Shop’ that has lots of detailed rebuillding work on the 101, amongst loads of other stuff i have found interesting. I suppose i shall have to make do with Sharp Innovas, of which there is an abunce of here, Any how thanks for letting us see this fine and curious artifact.

    TTFN

    Best wishes, Wing Commander Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe..


  5. B.B.,

    Let’s hear it for the Superpoints! Despite their not being domes or wadcutters, I find that they usually do well for me in most of my air rifles. To save money I use them mostly in the couple taploaders (Diana 50 and a Hakim) in my collection, but they hold their own, at ten meters, anyway. I suppose one big factor is that soft lead skirt blowing open to engage the rifling.

    Michael


  6. B.B. — Tom,

    You mentioned your eye, so I hope I’m not prying. I do hope you are recovering well. “What is a Detached Retina” was an answer (question?) on Jeopardy about a week ago, and I immediately thought of you.

    Michael


  7. GF1

    Continuing here.

    I have a Caldwell bag I lay my hand on. I also even laid the gun on the bag. It wasn’t as comfortable either way when compared to my other guns. I’m going to try a rolled up towel next. The gun was able to “scoot” nicely on the bag however I think the bag is too hard and lumpy as is. Ill have to experiment with softer media as well.


    • PH
      Ok I just didn’t know if you was standing and shooting un supported.

      And here is a little tip. Stay with one for about 30 shots or so. Don’t shoot 5 or 10 shots with one pellet then try another brand. Some pellet guns do better if you stay shooting one brand pellet for numerous. Seasoning the barrel is what people tend to call it.

      And if you have some RWS silicone based oil put about 3-4 drops where you load the pellet in the barrel. Then pick a pellet brand you want to try and do about 30 shots. You should see your group’s improve.

      And you don’t have to do the oil drops all the time. Maybe once every tin of 500 pellets.

      Oh and I don’t mean oil in the transfer port hole where the air comes from your spring and piston. Only in the barrel.

      Let me know if you try it and if you get better groups this way.


  8. GF1

    Thanks on the oil. I will get some. I didn’t even think about pellet seasoning. I will try that next time out.

    I wish I shot that good offhand standing! 😉


    • PH
      Ok let me know how it goes.

      And you know some people can shoot offhand standing good. Not me. I’m fair. But not good. I’m spoiled with the benchrest shooting anymore.



    • GF1,

      I am giving one of those some serious thought. It is basically a Discovery with a synthetic stock. It should be a nice, inexpensive .22 PCP that would be light and durable, making it an excellent candidate for a day of squirrel hunting.

      I have been considering a break barrel sproinger for that position, most especially since I do not own one right now. The top contender is an HW95, but I have been thinking of giving the new Gamo Hornet Maxxim a try. It has a synthetic stock and their gas spring, which is an advantage on a long walk in the woods and their new CAT trigger. It is probably still not anywhere near as good as the Rekord, but being their fourth generation trigger, it may be pretty good. It certainly will be better than any Crosman sproinger trigger.

      I have also thought of a .25 Marauder, but for different reasons. Although it would work exceptionally well on thinning out the tree rat population, it would be a bit heavy for an all day hike through the mountains. My main consideration with it would be to eventually convert it to .30 to begin my venture into the world of big bore. 😉


      • RR
        All choices you made sound good. But.

        Get a .25 Marauder. Trust me. You think that 46e can shoot. You will think your shooting a Olympic gun when you see how accurate and smooth they are. And the Marauder trigger is a very good trigger. Oh and the energy it makes ain’t nothing to mess with. The .25 Mrods are shooters. And if nce you shoot it you might not even worry about converting it to .30 caliber. Seriously give a .25 Mrod more thought.


        • GF1,

          Oh, I am well aware of the merits of the Marauder. That is why I will likely end up with one, but keep in mind there are two different “needs” I am trying to fill. One is a light, easy to use woods gun and the other is a long range power house.

          The Marauder is a bit heavy for a long walk in the woods in the mountains, but the Maximus or the HW95 would be superb. I also have all the parts to build my Talon SS back into a .25 with an 18″ barrel. This would be lighter and more compact than the Marauder and every bit as powerful and accurate.

          I am also thinking of my 7 year old grandson who the other day mentioned coming over and shooting balloons again with my Daisy 99. The Marauder would be way too much for him for quite some time.

          As for my big bore desires, a .30 is on the small side. I am really more interested in .357, .40 or .45. I really think Crosman is blowing it in the big bore line. I have shot both the Rogue and the Bulldog. My personal opinion of them is if I owned either, I would be looking to sell it. The power and accuracy exhibited by these air rifles is mediocre at best.

          Crosman would, or I should say could, do much better to build a .357 based on the well proven Marauder platform. Crosman needs to grasp the idea that the airgun community is willing to pay for quality, at least those who are shopping in places other than Wally World. Even Gamo is catching on to the high end airgun market.

          There is no reason Crosman cannot offer a Gen 2 Synrod in .357 for around $1000 and have it be able to put six JSBs in a 1″ CTC group at 100 yards. I would upset my wife and buy that tomorrow.


      • GF1,

        I was just comparing the Discovery to the Maximus and the Disco in .22 is 25 FPE and the Maxi in .22 is 23 FPE. Yeah, I think a Maxi with the Super Sear and power adjuster installed in it and a Bug Buster on top just might be the way to go in the very near future.


        • RR
          The Maximus should be a nice gun.

          But here is the down fall of the Maximus. Well if they still use the Discovery trigger. The Disco trigger no kind of way even comes close to a Marauder trigger. The Marauder trigger is very adjustable and can be set however you like. The Disco trigger bennifits from the mod that adds two set screws to the trigger. But still no kind of way is like a Mrod trigger.

          So keep that in mind. And I’ll just say it the way I see it. And that is the Disco trigger to me is junk. If I can come up with a gen1 Mrod trigger assembly it’s going on my 1377/Disco rifle conversion in a heart beat.


          • GF1,

            Perhaps you should slide over to AOA and check out their custom parts. They have a sear that turns the Disco trigger into a two stage.

            No, it will not be an MRod trigger, but it doesn’t need to be. My BSA has a direct sear trigger and it does just fine. Even a Crosman sproinger trigger can be usable once you get used to it, although I would like to get used to something a little better than that. 😉


            • RR
              I did see that at the AoA site. I should order me one and give it a try. It will be much cheaper than a Mrod trigger.

              Plus when a Mrod trigger assembly is put on a Discovery you don’t have a trigger gaurd anymore. The trigger gaurd on a Discovery is part of the trigger assembly.

              I bent a peice of metal and drilled two holes in it for a trigger gaurd for my Discovery when I had a Mrod trigger in it.


  9. I wonder under what circumstances that a small peephole sharpens vision. While trying to convince me to mount a national match peep sight on my Garand, Clint Fowler told me that it would actually help with weak vision. I declined, partly for accuracy. But the other night while dry firing my Enfield, I moved between the extremely large battle sight and the flip-up distance sight and noticed my vision seemed a little sharper with the smaller hole.

    Yes, B.B., I know exactly what your vision is like based on my own experience, and I couldn’t describe it either. Occasionally, the vision in my left eye would intrude into my regular vision. I couldn’t say exactly how because I had no outside perspective on my own vision. There were two slightly different images that were clearly separate but didn’t have any relation I could describe. And both the superimposed images and the different vision qualities led to a blurry, water quality. A friend in college who looked through my glasses with different correction said that it was like being underwater. Hang in there. My experience suggests that if the vision quality between both eyes is close enough, the brain will figure out how to fuse them.

    Matt61


    • Matt,

      That is my hope. That the brain will figure it out. It’s not double vision, but a slight superimposition that’s offset most of the time. The crosshairs on every scope look squiggly and angular, rather than straight.

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        Maybe there is “exercises”,… like flash cards or something,…. that could speed up or aid in the brain training? You said they guy that did your work was the best in your region of the States. Maybe he has heard of some things that might be worth a try.

        Just an idea. Your writing and shooting would have to be helping that,.. I would think. Both require very deliberate focus and attention.

        Chris


        • Yes, I keep thinking of the goshawks zooming through dense forests at 40 mph and processing obstacles at super-speed. Or of peregrine falcons making minute adjustments to their direction as they close in on prey at 200+ mph.

          Matt61


      • BB
        I have astigmatism and its kind of similar. When I was younger the eye doctor I was seeing had a machine in his office that would flash different size dots on the screen in different locations. I would have to locate and try get focused rapidly before the next one appeared.

        I had to go to his office 3 times a week for about a month. Then twice a week for a month. Then after the 3rd month it was once a week. Some how the machine could measure or see when I was focused and bring up the next dot.

        The machine kept time intervals for how long it took me to focus. He gave the print out of times to focus for each month. After the 3rd month I was focusing instantly.

        All I know is helped me with what I had going on. I only have problems now when I read to much and then try to go out and shoot or drive. But my focusing does come back in.

        Maybe you can ask your eye doctor if he has heard of anything like that.I know I’m glad I did it.


        • GF1,

          Thanks,… that is (just) the kind of thing I was thinking about. Some of the free and easy computer games might be good too. The only one I can think of is Be-Jewel,…. or something to that effect. It has been shown that games like that can improve eye/hand cognition and brain function in seniors.

          I do not play them, but probably should. I know the young’ns in my life could plain whoop my butt, on most occasions anyways.

          Yeah,…. they can take over the world with their computer generated Mega Blaster,… but put a real thing in their hands and it is another story altogether. Still, you got to admire their talent.


          • Chris USA
            My daughters a great at computer stuff and the gameing stuff too.

            Plus they can shoot guns good too. Hmm no wonder they give ole dad a run for his money. 😉


            • GF1,

              Yup,… I should have “qualified” my comment and eliminated you and yours from the comment. You have, on more than one occasion, have noted the Daughter(s) talents in shooting skills.

              Maybe we will see a 100 yd., 1/2″, 10 shot group with the .25 M-rod someday? Don’t think they have not thought about it after your 9 and 13/16″ @ 100. 😉

              I’ll bet there was some “ribbing” and “bragging” going on that evening! 🙂


              • Chris USA
                I showed my oldest daughter the groups after I shot them.

                And this her saying this not me. She goes dad I knew you would shoot good your always practicing shooting the corn cobs. I just smiled and said yep. Practice practice practice as they say. 🙂


                • GF1,

                  🙂 “Yep”. Out’a here. Hard week and M+D stuff tomorrow,…. Sunday looks like it. 🙁

                  Sunday,…. I think I will focus on “practice”,…… oh yea,… “practice, practice, practice”,…. that too!

                  Chris


                  • Chris USA
                    I’m getting ready to get out to shoot now. It is suppose to be nice today and tomorrow. High 90’s and sunshine and calm.

                    My wind flags aren’t even moving. I’m ready after a hard long week too.

                    Them 3 day weekends will spoil you.



        • GF1,

          I have astigmatism, too. That is not the problem.

          My retina was detached from the back of the eye. A retina is like a movie screen. When it isn’t flat, the image gets distorted. When the doctor attached it again, it welded it in place with laser spot welds. But some small parts of it did not go flat, and they are where the wrinkles come from.

          I don’t think it’s the kind of thing you can learn to compensate for.

          Also, my right eye isn’t seeing the exact image that the left one sees. So it superimposes its image in a way that make both images blurry. That is what I might be able to compensate for over time.

          We’ll see.

          B.B.


          • BB
            Ok. And that was a good explanation of how your retina was reattached.

            Now I believe I understand what your seeing. I hope that it gets better for you. That would absalutly drive me crazy.

            I have to ask this. When you shoot with both eyes open does your brain still block out your off eye? And what happens now if you close your left eye when you shoot?

            You should try holding your phone up to one of your scopes with the camera on. Rest the gun on the bench. And if your phone camera has a zoom feature. Zoom to the biggest magnification it has and see what the reticle looks like to you.

            It may just help. I know it probably ain’t what your after. But I’m curious to see if it helps.

            And one last thing. Did the eye doctor give you a prescription for everyday glasses that you always wear? My youngest daughter had lazy eye when she was younger. She still has to wear glasses. But her bad eye doesn’t go cross eyed when she takes her glasses off.

            And just trying to think of something that might help. Oh by the way. The oldest daughter that graduated is wanting to go to college to be a eye doctor. Wish I would of done something like that instead of the silly machine shop stuff I do.


            • GF1,

              Good idea about the smart phone and spotting scope. Meopta has an adaptor for the large iPhone 6S Plus that they have sent me and I will try it when I get it. As sensitive as a spotting scope is, there is no possibility of just holding the phone up to one. The slightest tremor is magnified a hundred times.

              I was out with the Meopta yesterday and got some good testing in. That will be Tuesday’s report.

              As for glasses, my doctor has not suggested them yet. I think I’m not far along enough to consider that yet. My old glasses certainly don’t work any longer.

              Be proud that you are a machinist. We need them just as much as we need doctors. Some times I wish I was something other than a writer, then I reflect on it and thank the Lord that I’m exactly what I am. It took most of my life to get me here, but here is where I want to be.

              B.B.


              • BB
                Thanks about the words of encouragement with the work we do. Yes down inside I’m happy that I do what I do. And also thank the Lord for where I’m at. Can’t really see myself being something else.

                Maybe you should bring that up to him about your prescription glasses now. You would think that he would test you now to know so you could see if the different lenses they try just might help.

                And I didn’t specify but I ment try and hold your phone up to one of your rifle scopes set at lower magnification while its supported by the bag on the bench. Then put the camera magnification on high so you could see the reticle.

                I think if you try it with a rifle scope on low scope magnification you won’t see the high magnification wobble.

                Can you let me know if you try it out on your rifle scope. Heck you could do it in your house and look at a target in your garage to try it. I think you mentioned you can so something like that there in the past.


  10. Matt61– There are several rear sight peep discs that have diaphragms ( waterhouse and iris) . If you use them, you can adjust the size of the aperture to fit the amount of light that is available (large in dim light, small in bright light). and sharpen up the sight picture. I have used these peep discs for target shooting and hunting for more than 60 years. My favorites are the Redfield merit disc,s, followed by the Anschutz, and Gehmen . The waterhouse discs (I have Mossberg and a Parker- Hale (in my #4 Enfield) usually give you the choice of an aperture that is too big or too small. (This is also the case with microscopes). The iris discs give you any size opening, up to the maximun size of the disc. As to the M1, If your rear sight aperture rack has been ground off at the tip, you should have several different size apertures to use . Just slip one out, and replace it with a different size. ( The M1 assembly guide, Kuleck and McKee, p. 92). You should have this book or another like it. Ed Ps– did you read my comments re the guns in that movie that you saw ?


    • Ed, I always look forward to your comments. I learned even more than usual from this one. I’ve wanted to try an adjustable iris on my LGR, and until now I always assumed that meant Gehmann. Those Merit discs look nice!

      And even though I have the M1 book you reference and was recently out shooting M1’s with Mr. McKee, and have had my Garand’s rear sight apart on McKee’s workbench, I never noticed the bit about grinding the aperture rack for quick changes. I’d love a smaller aperture on the M1 once in a while, but always ASSumed that amounted to a permanent-ish NM conversion. I need to pay more attention!!!

      Thanks!

      -Jan


    • Hi Ed. It appears that I posted my reply to you somewhere else. So, I’m replying again in hopes that this reaches you by email. No, I didn’t see your comments about the movie guns. If you could re-post that would be great. Thanks.

      Matt61


  11. Jan–I am happy to hear that you like my comments. The Redfield merit discs do not fit Ancheutz, Gehmen and some other sights. However , there is an adapter that fits these sights for the merit discs. The mendoza sight on my bronco accepts the merit disc . Ed


  12. Head to head.

    I have found my rival. She was under my nose the whole time… The wife put me to the test today. I had a cracked egg from the store that was no good to eat. I set the wife up for a close but safe look and I splatted it at 17-19yards. It made a crazy cool looking impact and a heck of a mess. I saw the look in her eye and I knew I had her.

    I asked her if she wanted to shoot her “favorite” gun and when she said yes I immediately went in and got the benji 392. We set up empty mangarita cans from the recycle and also my new silhouette set. We spent 3 hours out there! I also found out she shoots left like me! She is right hand dominant but left eye dominant. Once she worked on her stance she was rock solid with her new left hand stance. She was hitting shots I was missing. Although I was more worried about her succeeding and I kept fiddling with my sight inserts and rear sights to find my best combo. I have settled on the bead post with the U channel for now.

    Once we both hit our stride it was on! She was hitting 25-28yard shots understanding holdover and power changes (in pumps) to hit different targets from 10 out to almost 30 yards. I had no idea of her hidden skill! She was shooting incredibly well offhand as well. I was getting nervous! Once I finally settled in I was popping cans 15-20yds with the p17. I took one 32-34yd shot with the hw and was pretty dead on. I wanted to keep going but my partner was fatigued so we quit.

    The back yard is very shaded but not dark. The moles have made holes that I have stomped down and they made great can and silhouette target holders. The dirt flying let us know which way we missed. About the 3rd “competition” she started calling the benji “her” gun. I think I will get her a super sear. Her form looks good and she may surpass me if she wanted to.

    BD76

    I haven’t told her about the new gun heading our way yet. I did show her in the catalog and asked her if she liked it. She says it looks cool and she likes the bolt action. But she loves the price! So shes in for a good surprise I think!



      • GF1

        Oh yeah I’m in deep. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. I really hope she develops a passion for plinking and target shooting. She may never love it as much as me but we can still have fun. 🙂


        • PH
          You know where all kid’n back n forth.

          But happy for ya. Well I should say you and your wife.

          Me and my wife and 15 and 18 year old daughter’s have been shoot’n together since they were around 7 or so years old. And they even like firearms and bow and arrow. And before actually. I married my shoot’n buddy’s sister when we was kids. Grew up on a farm and we always hunted together. So it’s like in the blood if you know what I mean.

          I’m very happy that the wife and girls always have liked shoot’n. So I count my blessings there. And the girls are worse than I was on the 4 wheeler’s. And I use to even race motocross as a kid.

          But anyway glad you and your wife get to enjoy air gun shoot’n. Keep it exciting and stay involved is the best I can say.

          Shoot and be happy. Life goes by quick.


          • GF1

            I’m all for joking and ribbing. It is awful hard to offend me. 😉

            Ur a lucky guy having people close to you that enjoy your sport. The wife was a little sore this morning. She must have pumped her gun over 250times. 😉


            • PH
              Im left handed but shoot right handed. Yes I’m right eye dominant. But I use my left arm to cock the springers or pump up the multi-pumps. My left elbow kills me all the time from all the shooting I do. I tryed to switch it up and use my right arm for cocking the springers or pumping the multi-pumps. But just don’t feel right.

              By the way did you try the few drops of oil in the barrel and shooting at least 30 pellets before switching to the next ones you want to try? Did it help?

              And got another little trick that usually helps groups get a little smaller. Take your thumb from your trigger hand and place it at the back of the action on the top of the wood stock. Use a little down pressure on thumb. That tends to stabilize the gun a little more. Let me know how it goes.


              • GF1,

                I am full right handed and shoot left. Left eye dominate. Pistol right.

                Oil the barrel, thumb on stock,…???? Your givin’ away all “our” secrets,…. 🙂

                Next thing you know,… Ol’ PH will be shootin’ 13/16″ groups at 100 yards! Then, he has the wife,….. she looks to be kickin’ his butt in no time. 😉

                Outa’ here,….. Chris 😉



                • Chris USA

                  Haha! Yeah this little grasshopper is still doing his paperwork at 10m. You guys have a while til I catch up. 😉

                  Haha yeah she’s gna be a handful with some practice. I will just have to rely on my other talents to keep me in the game. She lacks patience at this time. We had a spat today so I shot solo. (Not airgun related) Not that I thought she would shoot 2 days in a row with me. 😉

                  We we’re looking through the PA catalog and she picked out all the Air arms 510 XTRA FAC line. Usually she has such inexpensive taste! 😉 I also showed her the new maxima and she preferred it over the disco, which I thought was weird?


                  • PH,

                    Tell your wife that she has good taste! The 510 series has always been one my favorite line-ups. As for taste, for me it comes down to visual balance, nice lines and a bit of style.

                    If ya’ get her “hooked”,…. be careful of the PCP’s. You will be doing the pumping and she will be doing the shooting! 😉 That is unless you get a Shoebox and a tank. For that though, it would buy you a 510 of your choice.

                    Something to ponder as you two are “drooling” over the latest PCP offerings.


              • GF1

                I am left eyed left hand stance for rifle and pistol. I’m somewhat ambidextrous but a good rule of thumb is the further something is away I use my left and the closer I am right. I throw left and write right. I cock my springers in front of myself unless seated. I have only just begun cocking them the “regular” way by pulling the barrel down with my lats.

                I haven’t had a chance for the chamber oil in the barrel. I think that will be purchase on the next pellet run. Still on the fence about the Williams peep. They make the hole way too big for my taste.

                I did however put 70 shots of aa7.33 in a very intense session. This is the first time I have been this serious with this gun. My best group was a true 1/2″ (3) more groups at 5/8″ (1) 13/16″ (1) 7/8″. I stopped there because the grill was ready.

                Weirdly enough the largest group had a cluster of 7pellets in a 5-16″ hole. These flyers are telling me my cheek weld is still not perfect shot to shot.

                The thumb pressure definitely helped me from jerking the gun around when breaking the trigger. I want my trigger just a Tad lighter. I want less 2nd stage travel or weight. Only slightly though. I’m not super familiar with correct terminology in the aspects of what I’m feeling. The large screw seems frozen. I have only tried some smaller screwdrivers I have around for thermostats, I wanted to check before I dug a big one out. I didnt know if maybe you have adjusted your 50S?


                • PH
                  Ok to call it cheekweld I guess.

                  How about more like repeating your hold and then putting your eye in the right place so you can see that hold on the target.


                  • GF1

                    That is the exact problem. I am misunderstanding the meaning of cheekweld then? I am catching on to what feels right but am still fooled at times it seems.

                    No biggie on the trigger. I will do a search. I may just leave it until I feel that it’s the only thing holding me back. Or maybe in awhile it won’t bother me at all. I don’t even notice for plinking cans and silhouettes.


                    • PH
                      Try to repeat your hold and keep the sight positioned the same on target.

                      Then move your head in different positions. If your using open sights cheek weld is important to a extent. And alignment of your eyes is important.

                      But sight alignment and placement on target is the big thing with open sights. And I mean the sights on the gun.

                      Repeatability with the guns sight or a scope reticle placement makes all the difference. Then it’s getting your eye in the right place to see.

                      All I can say is experiment with how your eyes see the sight after the sights are aligned to the target.



    • Punchin Holes,

      Sounds like “smooth sailing” to me,…. “I think”,…???…… 😉 Ya’all had fun. That is a good thing.

      Ya’ never know about them “critters”,….. sweet as sugar one moment,…. mean as a ticked off snake the next.

      Good luck!,…. when the time comes,……. Chris



        • GF1,

          Hate them suckers! That one the other day looked like a mini Tarantula! Is there an (analogy) of “web spinning” and “entrapment” in there somewhere? 😉

          If so,… seems that PH is the “spider”,…. with getting the little wifey into shooting and all,…. just sayin’.

          Let’s just “hope” it all works out good for “all” involved. 😉



            • GF1,

              Really???? You just had to go there, huh? 😉 Same weather here. Will get out in the AM.

              What,….. no A/C and a tall “cool one”? “Roughing it” with the fan? Ohhh Jeeeesh!

              😉 Chris


              • Chris USA
                The vents blow the air from inside. But when it gets this hot with the window open to shoot out of the a/c is useless.

                And well of course you know there has to be some refreshment flowing.

                What you going to do tomorrow? Just shoot and enjoy. Or you got a experiment up your sleeve?


                • GF1,

                  Well,…. since you asked,… pin down the 25.39’s at different yardages. H.O and such,… or H.U. in the case of close up and “personal”. Got the added weights in. Both were .503″ ID/OD,…. so a bit of some very crude lathe work was in order. Did not want to risk a seize up on press in. Turns out, they pressed in with fingers when done. Used the stock spring and one baffle, plus a nylon washer between the rear weight and the baffle to insure that no inner weights moved rearward. Tight to the front.

                  I would love to tell you the total weight, but the digital kitchen scale went bust. I had 5 oz., so I bet I have at least 8-9 oz. now. Very nice. With the pod, the “tip up” is well balanced. We will see. The 25.39’s rivaled the 33.95’s in initial testing, so I have good hopes for them. At least at 70 yds. or so. Even at 100, they did good. 3/8″ ID by the way.


                  • Chris USA
                    Maybe you should of used a little Loctite on the bushing before you pressed it into the other one.

                    Would be a bummer if they moved around inside. More variables and chance for not being true to th barrel when the pellet goes through.


                    • GF1,

                      With the nylon washer,….. (0% chance). Plus, it was a pretty hard finger press. They could be sloppy and they would have gone nowhere with the washer.

                      Yup on the variables,…. don’t like em’. Chris



                    • GF1,

                      Yes,…. all bronze. 3/4X1/2 with 1/2x 3/8 pressed inside. All 1″ long. All to the front. Then, the washer, with a 3/8″ ID to insure no bushings were ever going to move to the rear, then the stock baffle, and then the spring.

                      Cool thing is, it can all be had a Mom and Pop hardware store. Not Lowes or Home Depot. Yea, they got the drawers full of goodies, but not the same as the Mom and Pop shops.

                      EASY mod.,…. and it works,… as you know.



                    • GF1,

                      And shoot the heck out of it I did! Just got back in.

                      First up was to make up some nice yardage markers. Sour cream lids, mounted on plastic coat hangers and marked with a fat marker. I used the full bottom portion and left a hook at one end to prevent the lid from spinning. Gorilla tape.Very nice!

                      Next up was the actual test of required hold over using the 25.39’s and 3300 fill and a 24 shot limit. I did 30 to 100, in 10 yard increments.

                      30, 40, 50 reqd. (hold under) and 60 to 100 required hold over. The concept was to put the cross hairs on the bull and fire 2-3 shots. Use the mildots to judge the HO or HU reqd. and then test it using the data and fired another 3-4 shots to verify. Collected some good data.

                      Then, I had some 25.39’s that I had sorted for weight only. I loaded 10 and got a 10 shot 2 9/16″ group, with 5 falling into 1 13/16″ group. That was at 100 yards. 🙂

                      Final play for the morning was shots at a 15 oz. steel can at 100 yds. 7 for 7!!! That was until I sent it blowing off into the forest weeds somewhere.

                      Springers this afternoon. They have been neglected for far, far, FAR too long!

                      Oh yea,… upped the mag. as I went out further. 30-60 = 7, 70 and 80 = 9, and 90 and 100 = 10 mag. All noted.

                      One other thing was the sight picture, the issue was the ocular lens. With the sun at my upper right direct, I held my hands around the ocular lens and things got much better. I will be playing with that and may make a sunshade for the (rear) end.


                    • GF1,

                      The other thing I was interested in checking was to see if the groups shifted left or right as the groups went from near to far. ( indicating scope is mounted crooked to barrel ) All was good all the way from 30 to 100 yds. A slight bit to the right all the way out. BKL mounts with an off-set rear.


                  • Chris USA
                    First questions. Why the .25 grain JSB’s? Do you think they are working better than the heavier JSB’s? Maybe your gun isn’t make enough power yet for the heavier pellets?

                    And glad to hear you did some holdover/under and POI shift documenting. Sounds like you got a peek of my notes I use to keep when I was verify my distances. 🙂

                    And let me know what you think about the shot cycles on your springers now. Bet you will notice a difference real quick after spending some time on the Mrod and getting use to its shot cycle.


      • Chris USA

        HAHA! Yeah she showed me her teeth today when we backed way up and she felt outclassed. But I’m a good sport and we’ve been through a lot together and I knew if I pressed harder I would get the venom!


    • Thanks for the info. I should have expected that the M1 has accessories like this since it is such a popular gun.

      Sorry, I don’t believe I saw your comments on the guns in Distant Drums. I just remember one comment that they were possibly Hall breechloaders, and I’m pretty sure that wasn’t from you. I can’t always read all the comments, so the only ones I’m guaranteed to see are the ones made as direct replies to my comments which go to my email. I hope you can send me a copy of your comments about the movie.

      Matt61


  13. Speaking of phones and scopes, has anyone tried the ‘Inteliscope’ ? The phone ‘is’ the scope.
    Evidently it uses an app to become a scope and also displays critical information along with the optional reticles. Just need the gun mount.


    • Bob M
      You don’t have a link by chance you could post of the product do you?

      I’ll check back later and see if you posted. If not I’ll try to search it and post a link.


  14. GF1,

    I did not say that they did better, I just said that they did good at initial testing. Plus, I have 2 500 cans and only one left of the 33.95’s, so I thought I would get them “figured out”. They will still punch a can at 100, both sides. Gut is that 33.95’s are more stable. I can see where sorting is more important at 70-100 yds. to get better groups.

    By the way, I decided to stick to a 3300 fill and 24 shot limit to eliminate any partial valve lock and getting too low. I have not done a chrony string on the 25.39’s since the O-rings and the 12# hammer spring. I need to do that so that I know the “sweet spot” on the 25.39’s. But they did do good.

    As for shot cycle,…. and for that matter anything else,…. if you have some nice springers,… and I have 2,…. do not,… repeat,…. DO NOT buy a PCP! If you do,…. you have been forewarned. It will plain and simple spoil you on the power, accuracy and ease of shooting.


    • Chris USA
      Glad you came up with a new usable shot count. My gun gets 24 very good shots POI wise. It will get more. But those shots ain’t as predictable as the 24.

      And yes I would be interested hearing what your chrony readings are with the 33.95 and 25.39’s. Well and the Barracudas also. Maybe the 12# spring and o-ring mod will do your gun good with the Barracudas now. You know with different pellets you may have to adjust fill pressure and usable shots. The Barracudas might only produce 15 usable shots that are very accurate. So that’s something for you to think about.

      And I was wondering what you were going to have to say about the springers verses the pcp shot cycle. Pcp and pneumatic and Co2 guns are definitely smooth easier to shoot guns.

      Remember what I say I always do. I always got about 5 or so guns out at a time when I’m out shoot’n for the day. That helps me keep in practice with each plus in a sense it conserves pellets. I shoot a bunch of shots throughout the day but use minimal pellets in each caliber.

      You should try to do a day of shooting next time out with multiple guns at hand. And now you know those notes for holover/under will come in handy.


      • GF1,

        Yup, chrony of the current tune will be the next step. I did have all 3 out,… just at separate times.

        First impression of the springers was,….. where is the power? Second was,…. well,…. that felt a bit awkward….. 3rd was the lack of LOP that the M-rod has with the RAI kit. 4th was the lack of steady from using the pod and the pistol grip rest support that the M-rod offers. 5th,…. do I need to go on?

        I did check for shroud rise within the air tube/shroud ring,…. none that I could see anyways. I aimed at a sunny spot in the lawn and sighted down the barrel so as I could see daylight between the ring and shroud. The weights did the trick. It sure can not hurt.


        • Chris USA
          Yep you got it on the springers verses the pcp’s.

          And I know you just seen this in my other comment. But got to say it again because it’s important.

          When you try different pellets they may like a different fill pressure and ending pressure.

          And more important the shot count might be less on a certain pellet type verses another your trying.

          Like the Barracudas you might need a different fill pressure than the JSB’s and you may only get 15 usable shots were the gun POI’s good.

          I was waiting to mention this after you got some more time on the Mrod. When you mentioned today that you reduced your usable shot count on the JSB’s I knew it was time to mention that about other pellets and the Barracudas.

          See you are getting more familiar with your gun. And just think if you modify your gun some more all this learning and testing your gun will have to be done over. Hmm wonder when it really is time to stop and be happy with a tune a gun has.


          • GF1,

            Yup, it is pretty good now at 32 shots. Without the chrony data, I was just being “safe” and sticking to the middle of the road, so to speak. So 24 was not a deliberate decision based on facts,… more of a safe guess. From what I have seen of the Cuda’s,… it will take a miracle to get anything close to the JSB’s. I will try though. Got four cans of them puppies.

            Yup, got it. I took your advice and just shot to see what the real world results were,… separate from the chrony and Chairgun. Will continue to do so.


            • Chris USA
              Yep people get surprised when they chrony guns and get good spreads but their groups look like crap.

              Putting it on paper is what it’s about. Everything else is just a guess.

              But sounds like you had a fun day of shooting anyway.

              I’m still out here shooting too. Not as bad in the breezway today for some reason. It’s hotter than yesterday right now and 6° cooler in here than yesterday. Same wind mph and direction but humidity is down from 65% to 45% today. My guns are POI-ing a half mildot higher today.

              Never even thought about weather conditions and pressures when I was a kid shoot’n. But it will change things. And yep the farther out you go the more you will see it.

              Don’t you just love long range shooting. 😉



                • Chris USA
                  Ok I’m going to remind you through the week about the Barracudas and fill pressure and less shot count to make a pellet work.

                  And you know what the next step is don’t you. A weather station for humidity and air pressure at the time your shooting.

                  Hmm maybe that’s why I can shoot good on a drizzly rainy day. See what a cool low humidity shaddy day will do for your shooting groups. 😉


                  • GF1,

                    Weather station? This is all starting to get a “bit” scientific,… ain’t it? 🙂

                    I got both, just need to pull em’ outside. Humidity anyways. Digital.


                    • Chris USA
                      And a weather station will give wind direction too.

                      Yes more money. 😉

                      And you know out of all the hoppys I been involved in a weather station is a valuable tool.

                      Drag racing.R/C racing and flying, motocross racing. Shooting and even R/C car racing. Yep I did fuel and electric off road and on road racing.

                      It will be more things to write down and document. But it also helps you repeat results.

                      You do know that’s what snipers call doping. It’s documented results that they can be looked back on to help in a current situation.

                      It all makes a difference. And depends on how deep you want to dig. You know what I mean.



                  • Gunfun1
                    After the weather station, a machine rest with a cable release for the trigger. I love mine! Then weather stations down range to dope the wind. What’s money??
                    You guys are doing great work, keep it up!
                    Fido3030


                    • Fido3030
                      The main thing is being aware of what the weather can do to affect your shooting results.

                      It affects things at 50 yards and in. But double that distance and see what happens. Then include ballistics.

                      It’s so wonder we do as good as we do with our air guns.

                      Technology you know. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes not.


                  • GF1,

                    Glad you clarified the ‘Hoppy” vs “Hobby”,….. I was thinking to myself,….. where in the heck am I going to get weather predicting FROGS?????

                    Man,… that GF1 goes to real extreme ,.. extremes,…. to get the results he does,… 😉


                    • Chris USA
                      You don’t know you should watch how frogs act? 😉

                      But on a seriuos note. We have swallows that have a nest and babys out here under the eve’s of the house. They get the bugs around the house. They are in heaven when I cut grass. They follow me around the yard getting buggs for the babby’s.

                      What I learned is they fly around a section of the woods where the feild meets the woods. And you going to ask why? That’s where a deer is at. And this is cool. I can call the dear out. It will come right out where the swallows fly. Then the swallow will fly around and get the bugs. Sometimes the swallow will even land on the deers back.

                      The deer are like pets to me. Haven’t hunted in years. But it’s really cool what nature has to offer if you watch.

                      Sound weird comming from a pester? Shouldn’t. That’s all the difference. Pest or pet.



                    • Fido3030
                      Once you learn what a gun is capable of you will find out real quick that a gun will work better than the person shooting it.

                      Then comes the learning about how to make that gun work the same everytime.


  15. Gunfun
    I forgot everyone may not have the ‘suggestions option’ activated in the search bar. I can’t live without it. Just type a word in and a half dozen sites containing it will pop up to choose from.
    http://www.inteliscopes.com should get you there. They have simulated phone screen displays to activate. Amazon may have it also?
    Bob M.


    • Bob M
      Thank you very much for posting that link I checked it out real quick but I like what I see. I’m going to look into the app download more.

      I was searching some apps already to try with my phone and scope. Alot of apps out there. Got to do more research to see how far I want to go. But cool stuff that’s for sure.


      • Gunfun
        I ran out of daylight satellite time so my Internet access is at a slow crawl. The web site keep growing with a slide show too. The only problem I could see with a phone scope is sunlight obscuring everything. May need a hood of some sort.

        Pin hole sights…Remember way back, someone on TV was selling eyeglasses that claimed to restore vision with glasses that had nothing but pinholes to see through. Not sure how many holes each lens had or how big they were. Evidently it works like squinting or looking through a hole in your clinched fist. It restricts a lot of the “Out of focus” stuff from entering and reaching the back of your eye and confusing your brain causing obscured sight. …Come to think of it ? I wonder if restricting one eye to looking through a pin hole type set up carefully placed on glasses would help eliminate double or blurred vision of some sort ? OR, how would looking through a pinhole affect a scopes view ?


        • Bob M
          I was going to mention before I use my phone all the time now. My lap top basically sets and collects dust anymore. It’s there basically for a back up incase my phone screws up. But yep I use my search bar on my phone all the time. Don’t know what I would do with out it.

          And yep agree with some type of shade would be needed over the phone if used outside. I can hardly see my phone screen when it’s sunny out. Maybe a baseball type cap with a bill on the front would work if the gun was used in the sun. But I bet your head would be to close to the phone screen to be comfortable seeing the picture on the screen by time you get close enough to sheild the sun.

          But. For me I will be ok. I will be shooting inside from a breezway. I’m always in the shade when I shoot.

          And you reminded me about something with the small hole helping block out the extra light. I’m remembering when I was a kid in school and the class made up these cardboard boxes with a pin hole in it to watch the solar eclipse. We had a hole off to one side also that was bigger to look into the box. So we stood with the sun to our backs. Then held the box out in front of us. We L oked into the bigger hole and we could see the eclipse on the back of the box as it shined through the pin hole.

          Well I think that’s how I remembered it going. But yes I can focus better when less light enters my eyes.


  16. Just felt I should mention this.

    Today the shooting conditions have been really good today. But…..

    My allergies are kill’n me. Something is in the air today. Haven’t checked the allergy reports yet. But eyes are watery and can’t get focused good.

    If this was the weekend me and Chris USA did our little friendly 100 yard competion I would of been in trouble. I was having trouble hitting my one inch angle iron steel spinner I made at 50 yards today. Eyes just ain’t working today. I don’t like when I get like this at all. Never good results is the norm when I have this going on.

    Just thought I would say.


    • GF1,

      Mine just got plain tired after the 30-100 shooting. But yea,… I can relate,… all day at work fine and then on the way home, windows cracked or down,…. and I am all messed up by the time I get home.

      Heck,…. I am probably allergic to,….. air,….. or something like that. Never tested, but do ok without any meds.

      Don’t like the meds.,…. all good one month and it is the next “best” thing,…. and the next month the Lawyers are suing because people are “croaking” from the stuff.


      • Chris USA
        With you on the meds. I think they can mess you up worse than how you are. Plus just don’t trust them. I could post some scary stuff that has been done in the past by the government. My dad was a extreme not go to the doctor type of person. He grew up in the country and it was always home remedy’s. He lived and worked hard till the day he fell over out on a tractor. I found him. I’ll be the same.

        There’s better ways. But talk about doctors. The same. Some are good and some not worth a crap.

        But yep wish my eyes were better sometimes. It’s not often that everything falls in line for a good shoot’n weekend. But way happy when it does.


  17. I had another range day yesterday. It was even a logistical triumph due to my new unbreakable chamber flag for my Saiga. It is entirely made of steel and it is actually designed so that one can yank on the protruding handle, pulling the flag out of the chamber and racking the bolt to load the gun. Apparently it was designed with law enforcement in mind. I don’t know why they would do that unless they wanted to avoid accidental discharges.

    But first, I made full use of the saying that 9mm is the new .22. I shot off 100 rounds like nothing. The experience convinced me that the CZ trigger needs modification. It would group erratically and I attribute that to the creepy trigger.

    Otherwise, the day was devoted to my ongoing experiment to see how much accuracy I could milk out of my Saiga AK. I was also testing out my cool new reflex sight with the various lighted reticles. Using one I put three into an inch standing at 25 yards. The mauser put five into four inches at the same distance. Based on that and some later results it seems that with modern optics, the AK can be more accurate than WW2 battle rifles. At least that is true of the Mauser which is generally considered accurate.

    At 100 yards, the Mauser groups were horrendous, around 6 inches. I think that is mostly because my eyes are not up to shooting with iron sights at that distance. Both the sights and the bull were blurry. I did better at 50 yards where I put four into 2 MOA. Then I tried the AK at 100 yards. My laboratory conditions were perfectly set with my Leapers scope on 9X, my padded cheekrest, and my rear bag. And the results? Kind of strange. Most groups were about 5 inches. But there was no group that did not have three or four shots inside of an inch. But I simply could not avoid throwing out a shot or two. I guess this is what is meant by the phrase “wants to group” which I’ve never really understood.

    Clearly, the AK is no tackdriver as has been said countless times. I was wondering if there was a simple key to the inaccuracy, like perhaps extra follow through to counter the violent long stroke piston which one might acquire through airgun shooting. But whether the bad shots resulted from failed follow through, I didn’t notice. Apparently, the first army reviewers of the AK concluded that it was “stubbornly mediocre” in terms of its accuracy and resisted any attempts to improve it. My experiment would seem to confirm this. But all I could say by way of response is to wonder how the AK might do if it had access to the kind of support that is commonly available to the AR. Suppose one started with a milled action, then blue-printed or trued the action. I understand this to mean polishing and shaping the parts to their precise dimensions. Then use a heavy gauge barrel if there is such a thing for the AK and match Hornady ammo, like I was using, or handloads. I would say that you would get accuracy equal to all but the very best ARs.

    However, the prone shooting was not indicative of offhand shooting. Like before, the Mauser really shined in offhand at 100 yards. It held the black and did not do any worse than the rested groups (except for the odd shot which missed the paper). The gun handles wonderfully well in offhand, feeling very light and agile. And I also attribute the improved performance to the sight. Apparently, it is possible for sights to be very precise for accuracy but horrible at quick acquisition in combat. That apparently was true of the original ladder type Springfield 03 sights. So, it seems that the opposite might also be possible: Sights that are good for combat but bad for precision. That seems to be the case for the gothic, wedge-shaped front sight on the Mauser. I was just moved to poke the end into the bull. On the other hand, the scoped AK was very disappointing in offhand at 100 yards. I strung shots horizontally along the bottom of the target. Then, after holding 6 inches higher, I seemed to be shooting them way left. That round really drops off at distance, unlike the Mauser which is much flatter shooting. Maybe it’s oversimplistic to compare the accuracy of two guns. It might be more appropriate to describe a performance envelope just like fighter planes whose performance depends on a lot of different circumstances.

    But I will add one other lesson I learned which is the great advantages of offhand shooting. I was just about the only person on the range shooting this way. You will be much less accurate, but the recoil is much diminished. An ex-Delta Force veteran says that absorbing recoil is much easier and more natural while standing than rested. That proved to be true. Even one five shot clip with the Mauser was challenging while rested, but offhand, I felt like I could shoot all day long.

    Matt61



    • Matt61

      Hey man I think you posted to me instead of Zimbabweed?

      But since I have u here… if u want to see what the difference in the peep hole size on your back sight can do take a small piece of foil and carefully place it on the back peep of your m1. (As I understand it has the peep setup?) Then take a tooth pick and poke a hole in your foil. Get in some “good” light and look through it. You will probably need to crowd up closer to the peep hole. This is just an experiment. I actually used duck tape on my m4 Pumper and that’s how I shoot it. Its not perfect but it didn’t cost anything either.

      Maybe this way you can tell if your eyes see an improvement or not. I still have 20/20 vision with no problems. As I understand you have a few challenges you face. May be worth a couple minutes of playing around. 🙂

      I find you ak vs ar observation interesting. I would like to add a couple of my own thoughts and speculations. First yes if the ak were made more precise then it could hold it’s own vs the ar within reason. With that said… The little Russian is not a ballistic wonder. It has a rainbow trajectory and is very limited in range compared to the lighter flatter 5.56 practically speaking. first the weight of the Russian at a typical 123ish grain, and the 5.56 at just over half, 64ish grains? (Mil surplus typicals, no resources in front of me.)The 5.56 has superior case potential and is a more efficient round overall as far as I understand it. Even with the extra weight typical projectiles for the 7.62 surplus the ballistic coefficient is somewhat low, couple that with the odd trajectory you have a much more difficult task as apposed to something that shoots way flatter at 150yards. Even though the typical BC for the 5.56 is similar to the typical 7.62, the trajectory and practical range most of us shoot it at makes the 5.56 much easier. Why do you think the .223/5.56 is so popular? 🙂

      BUT! here’s where things get interesting! If you were to blueprint a rifle and have a barrel made that would stabilize a longer bullet. Lets say 180 grain? U might still be able to make enough speed to really launch that high BC projectile out there a ways! But you more than likely would have feeding problems as your overall cartridge length would be at least .125″ longer…

      Two huge advantages of the “sloppiness” of the ak build are, reliability of function and economy in regards to cost(to build the gun and develop and produce the round). What was the ak made to shoot at in the first place? Who was designed to shoot it? Not target shooters that’s for sure. 😉 Aks are one of the biggest compromises in regards to shooting ever and it has paid off in spades. They do exactly what they were designed to do.

      All in all it sounds like the ak you own is a decent shooter all things considered. I have shot some truly nasty ones before.

      I’m definitely not a feather ruffler. I just like exchange of ideas and info. This was my opinion based on the way I have interpreted popular opinion and facts.


  18. Punchin holes–All of my Williams peep sights fit Redfield Merit discs. You can close the iris diaphragm down to pin hole size. Try one, it will probably solve your problem. Ed


  19. Matt 61– I watched the trailer for Distant Drums. You were right re the 1873 colt SAA pistol. The soldiers were using 1873 trapdoor carbines. Hollywood movie gunsmiths have been doctoring trapdoor rifles for 100@ years. They put cosmetic flintlocks on them, and alter stocks to resemble the guns needed for the film.
    They even made “pirate” pistols out of trapdoor rifles! Although the movie trailer was not to clear, I am sure that the rifles carried by the Seminole were trapdoor,s. Buster Keatons The General, trapdoors. Audie Murphy the red badge of Courage- the main actors had original rifle-muskets, the extras trapdoors. The 1926-7 lost world- the grand daddy of all the dinosaur movies- Mauser 98,s , 1898 Krags- but one main actor carried an early .22 caliber Winchester model 52 target rifle ! As I remember it, he aimed it at a stegosaurus, but one of his companions talked him out of shooting the dinosaur. A wise decision, indeed. Ed


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