Daisy’s Red Ryder: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

A history of airguns

Daisy Red Ryder
Daisy Red Ryder.

This report covers:

  • How many Red Ryders?
  • Number 111 Model 40
  • Model 94 carbine
  • Model 1938
  • The Red Ryder explodes!

Today we start looking at an American airgun icon — the Daisy Red Ryder BB gun. With the recent change in ownership of Daisy Outdoor Products, this look is most fitting.

I will test the gun for you in the traditional way, and then I have a surprise. Someone has developed a scope mount for the Daisy that will fit all the older models, as well as the new one. I know the website says scopes cannot be mounted to the current Red Ryder, but we will see if they can. And no doubt some other things will pop up along the way. Sit back and relax — this should be an interesting journey for all of us.

How many Red Ryders?

Let be start with the fact that there have been many different BB guns that were called the Red Ryder. The gun we see today is not the one Daisy began selling is 1939. According to the latest edition of the Blue Book of Airguns, there are 8 variations of just that first version, which was the Number 111 Model 40.

Daisy model numbering is quite complex and confusing on its own, and when you talk about a popular gun like the Red Ryder, the complexity multiplies! Are you a guy who discriminates between the several versions of Christmas Story Red Ryders? Daisy collectors do. Or are you the sort of guy who thinks a Red Ryder is the gun you had as a kid? I have owned several different models of the gun myself, but I’m by no means a collector. Just know that there are some very different BB guns that have carried the Red Ryder name.

Number 111 Model 40

The first version was the Number 111 Model 40 — first introduced in 1939 and sidelined by World War II, but resumed shortly thereafter. This is the one that has at least 8 variations, and probably more if you are an advanced collector who differentiates smaller differences than the books cover.

Actually I lied. There are 9 major variations, because the Number 311 is the same gun in a boxed set with a scope, bell target, cork tube with corks (yes, several Daisy BB guns also shot corks with the right shot tube), all in a large cardboard box. I have owned this variation, and it’s a small collection by itself. The gun inside the box was one of the 8 variations mentioned earlier, though. There is no Red Ryder that is marked as a Number 311 — at least not to my knowledge.

The first Red Ryder had all wooden furniture with highly polished blued steel parts and copper-plated bands that looked gorgeous to little boys. When Daisy made the Christmas Story guns for the movie, Daisy’s Orin Ribar painted the bands to simulate the originals. As far as I know, there were a total of 6 left-handed BB guns (actor Peter Billingham is left-handed) made for the movie, and any one of them is a prized collectible today. Trivia fact — all 6 movie guns have the compass on the opposite side of the stock!

Model 94 carbine

This first major version lasted into the 1950s, when Daisy began using plastic stocks and painted finishes on the metal parts. It was replaced by the Model 94 carbine that few people outside the collectors know about. I know about it because I once owned one that was like new in the box. I bought it at a flea market and had it for many years. I sold it at an airgun show because, quite frankly, it was too nice a collectible for someone like me to own!

The 94 was an attractive airgun that went from 1955 to 1962. During this time Daisy perfected both the painting process and the making of plastic stocks. As long as you didn’t subject the guns to great heat — by storing them in a hot attic — the stocks never warped and the paint didn’t flake off. My gun was in 100 percent condition, with a box that was very good, if not quite perfect.

This model had a thin leather sheath over the butt, as well as a genuine leather thong looped through the saddle ring on the left side of the receiver. The rear sight was a selectable notch and peep that flipped to the shooter’s preference. Except for the plastic parts, this is a gun that Ralphie Parker (from A Christmas Story) would have been proud to own.

Model 1938

In 1972 Daisy brought out the Model 1938 in homage to the original No. 111 Model 40. Original examples of this model in good condition are very hard to find today, but there are a ton of restored ones. Some of the restorations are as fine as Daisy made them originally and this is an area of extreme collector discussion — by which I mean that not everyone agrees. Many want the real deal — untouched by human hands. But, as there aren’t enough of those to go around, the other camp says they are delighted to own a fine restoration.

It is important to note that the Model 1938 still has the Lightning Loader — that small tube under the larger tube that most people call the barrel — where the BBs are loaded (“Careful, son. They go everywhere!”). When the 1938B came along, BBs were loaded though a window cut right into the barrel, and the tube beneath the barrel became strictly cosmetic.

Daisy Red Ryder Lightning Loader
This is the Lightning Loader on my No. 111 Model 40 Red Ryder.

The Red Ryder explodes!

The 1970s was a time when gun makers went wild with product differentiation. They discovered they could make a basic product, then cover it with different finishes and stock materials, and sometimes engrave different names on the side to appeal to large and varied audiences. For example, if you live in Alaska you might not care about a California Centennial model, but a Klondike model might pique your interest. Winchester used their model 94 lever action for this and Daisy used the Model 1938B. The number of commemoratives and guns that celebrate organizations like Ducks Unlimited (having nothing to do with BB guns, but still related to the shooting sports) is epic! There is over a page and a half of just the sub-variations of the Daisy Model 1938B Red Ryder in the Blue Book.

This is essentially the Red Ryder model you get today. Daisy has dropped the B designator, but retained the new method of loading, so I guess we need to differentiate between today’s Model 1938 and the one with the Lightning Loader that was made from 1972 to 1978. It’s the sort of thing that can get you into heated discussions. “I just bought a cool Mustang!”

“Is it a real Mustang, or is it the modern one?”

“What do you mean? Of course it’s a real Mustang. It says so all over the car!”

If that doesn’t start a food fight this weekend, I don’t know how to stir the pot.

Lots more to come.

198 thoughts on “Daisy’s Red Ryder: Part 1

  1. Pingback: Daisy’s Red Ryder: Part 1 | Airguns: Air Rifles and Pistols





        • OMG…In my last year of high school (’72) I had a 1961 Metropolitan convertible.
          Quite the babe magnet, truth be told (I’m sure due to the fact that I was one of only 6 or 7 guys with their own car in my class).
          That powder blue and white that was quite popular.


        • B.B.,

          I’ll grant you the Metropolitan wasn’t pretty, but like certain little pugs, it could be thought of as so homely it was cute.

          As for Mustangs, I would argue the only Mustang that was absolutely not a mustang in any way was the terrible “Mustang II” of the mid 1970s. By any measure that was one of the worst American cars ever made.

          Michael



          • Michael
            Why did you think the Mustang all was terrible. My buddy was a Ford guy. He had one and it ran it’s butt off.

            But then again. It didn’t stay stock very long after he got it either. 🙂


          • I had one of those when I was young. German designed V6, Stick Shift, Positive Traction, & Handling Package, Yellow and Black. It was a fun car. I even drove it in the winter with snow tires cause it was all I had. I had it for three years and sold it. But one of the worst American Cars ever made? No. Take a look at the AMC Gremlin.
            It never gave me any trouble.

            Mike



              • Big Iron and Gunfun1,

                I had two friends who had them, and they hated them almost from the start. They drove terribly and were always in for service.

                In the U.S. the 6 cylinder was rare. The vast majority had an inline 4. From Wikipedia: “Mixed contemporary reviews [included] Consumer Reports reporting that ‘there are better subcompacts on the market than the Mustang II’ and recommended the AMC Gremlin as a car that was at least as good, and in some respects superior, in terms of seating, noise level, normal and emergency handling, and acceleration; and Road & Track was of the opinion that the Ford was neither fast nor particularly good handling.”

                Michael



                  • The one I had was a Mach 1. Now if it was 1976 today and I was buying a vehicle, it would be a 4X4 Truck, either a Ford or a Chevy. That would have been a better choice. These days I have a Toyota Tundra. 🙂

                    Mike


                    • Big Iron
                      I had Chevy and Ford 4×4’s throughout time. Liked them both.

                      And the Tundra’s are cool. I do like the looks. And they got a nice V8 too.

                      I just hate pay’n for gas now days.


                • Maybe the V6 and the Handling Package made the difference. I had “0” issues with it. As for Road and Track, I never cared much for them but they may have been driving the standard one. With the V6 and a 350 rear end it moved when you wanted it to go.

                  Mike


            • People, this is NOT a ‘car’ forum. What about what was yakked about regarding the GUN? Please keep on topic. And YES… I realize HE mentioned a car, but Christ!_ it was an EXAMPLE. Get back to guns!


              • Ahh…You haven’t been here too long. Welcome to the blog. Off topic discussions have been tolerated in the blog as long as they are PG rated. I have read the archives of this blog since it started way back in 2005 and this discussion is rather short compared to the previous ones. Anyway you always have the option to choose not to read the discussions that don’t interest you.


                • LOL! So true about not HERE too long, but REALLY? Talking about CARS on a AIRGUN forum… if that is what this area is. I will heed your sage advice, though. Have a good day.

                  Ummm… is it okay for me to mention I have all but ONE of the ‘Red Ryder’ versions, and would pay good money for the one missing? Oh, wait… were talking CARS here, not airguns. Never mind. 😉


                  • You are not the only one feeling in foreign land when the conversation goes off on a tangent. I sometimes follow it but then at times when they go to the deep end of the pool my eyes start to glaze over while reading.

                    From what I have read that is a LOT of “Red Ryders”! Although I have no active interest in one I am fascinated by the history and mechanism.



        • The Geo line was a joint venture between GM and Suzuki, most of which were just rebranded Suzukis. Since I bought my Metro back in the 90’s, we have owned three other Suzukis. I have a SX4 in the driveway right now. We were not happy when Suzuki pulled out of the US. We were just about to buy another Grand Vitara.


  2. B.B.,

    Very nice,… and very timely. I arrived at the bottom at the article,.. all too quickly. I bought a 75th Anniversary model from P.A., and now glad I did. It has the “B” designator. Sure, there was probably like a bazillion sold, but I got one.

    It would be nice to know what Gamo’s intent with Daisy is. Leave it as is? Reinvent the line? Add to the line? Bring back replica models? Leave the company’s stellar customer service alone? It would be nice if you could place an inquiry to Gamo, and get a bit of an “inside scoop”.

    Re-issues? Me? The 1894 with octagon, hexagon?, barrel and brass colored receiver. That was my first bb gun.

    A nice idea would be to see an article that would cover all the take overs, buy outs and mergers over the years. Sure, there have been, and are lot’s of players. You no doubt of have covered things as they happened, or referred to something that occurred some time ago,… but to see a bit of a summary in (one) article, at least the major events, would be nice.

    Chris


    • Chris,

      I had a lengthy reply, but it disappeared into the EtherWorld.

      Basically, there is a pretty good chance that the Daisy you are familiar with will rapidly fade into the past as this is the fate of almost all companies that are taken over.

      What could happen is Gamo could use this facility to move production to the US as many European companies are doing to reduce costs.

      It will likely be a bit of both, with a good bit of the first.


      • RR,

        I looked up Gamo,… there site shows all the latest products, but the last news release was in 2013. ?

        There is some stuff on Yahoo Finance. Just type in Daisy. If you can believe what you read, it sounds ok.

        The sight rail below, or rather the mounts,.. looks insane high. I like it, or at least that there is something out there to mount a scope. But, why would you. It looks to be a neck weld, not even a jaw bone weld, let alone a cheek bone weld.

        I will stand by a comment that I have uttered more than once,…. you want to get a kid hooked on shooting,…. get them a 499. End,.. Of,.. Story.



          • R.R.,

            Well, at least you got him started. As for length of pull, that seems to be a topic of debate,… as in switching from one rifle to another. I am not sure yet,… but I am sure when it feels right,… or a bit,… or a lot off.


            • Chris,

              I myself do not have much problem switching between different LOP unless it is real extreme. I might have a little trouble with that Buck. It is a pretty short stock.


              • RR
                Length of pull don’t bother me much either.

                When you shoot a bunch of different rifles in your time you learn to adapt.

                I think it’s called exsperiance.




          • 45Bravo,

            I am on a laptop. The problem is the *&%$#@&*()()%^&*#$%%^^^ little touch pad mousy thingy at the bottom of the keyboard. I will be typing and all of a sudden things will go berserk.

            Another thing that happens is I seem to occasionally lose connection or it goes to sleep. When typing a long post, the connection seems to dose off and when I hit post comment, everything just sort of disappears. Very frustrating.


            • There should be a key among topmost row of F keys that you can press while pressing the Fn key simultaneously that will deactivate the touchpad. You will have to use a regular computer mouse once the touchpad is deactivated.


              • I have not clue which one it is. I use a wireless mouse anyway. I absolutely hate those touchpads. I cannot say I am very fond of touch screens either. For some reason they never work very well for me. Something to do with my body chemistry I reckon.


            • RR
              I use to have the problem with my laptop going to sleep and loosing the reply.

              There has to be a setting that you can change to shut it off or extend the time I would think.

              That’s one thing I don’t have to worry about with my phone. But it sure does try to tell me what to do spelling wise.




                  • LOL! That is one of the reasons I do not have one of those “smart” phones. I am still using a flipper that is probably close to 10 years old. It is old enough that it is not equipped with GPS tracking. It makes me a little harder to find. 😉

                    I am one of those dinosaurs that believes just because you can does not mean you should. I upgraded my laptop a few years ago because the software I needed to use was not compatible with my operating system. I am needing to upgrade to W10, but I have been dragging my feet about it. I need to clean this thing up some and get on with it I guess before some meteor comes crashing down and wipes me out.


                    • RR
                      Yep it seems like what was new yesterday is obsolete today.

                      In some cases technology might just move to fast nowdays.



    • You said:

      A nice idea would be to see an article that would cover all the take overs, buy outs and mergers over the years.

      I TOTALLY agree with you. I LOVE the ‘history’ of companies, especially when it comes to most anything I am part of, such as air gunning.


  3. BB,

    I just bought a Buck for my Grandson, which if I am not mistaken is the same as the newer Red Ryders but without all of the bells and whistles and a shorter butt stock.


  4. Hi folks,

    I haven’t written a lot lately since I was quite busy…

    BB, I hope everything is still going well with your eye.

    I got something cool today. An old Diana LP 5 pistol with the old and ugly grey plastic grip. The grip feels much better than it looks though…

    I still have my grandfather’s old LP5G (same thing apparently, but with the nicer fake wood grip) but it would need *serious* work. The grip looks nicer so I might swap it unless I find the ugly grip easier to use 🙂

    Anyway, I didn’t remember how nice these pistols are. Or maybe I didn’t know in the first place because I had no frame of reference. Now I do to a degree…

    Everything about it says “quality”. I was tempted to say “screams quality” but nothing about this thing “screams”. It’s too sophisticated for that 🙂

    There are some light rust spots, but they have already “faded” after a good rubbing with Ballistol. The power still seems to be there since the pistol easily flattens a typical 0.45 gram pellet at point blank range.

    The barrel looks fine without rust or damage to the crown so I hope the accuracy will be fine as well.

    I think this one is going to be fun to shoot 🙂

    Kind regards,
    Stephan


    • Stephan,

      The eye seems to be holding at about 90 percent right now. I can shoot, but it takes concentration.

      You didn’t say, but because you live in Germany I’m guessing your new/old pistol is a .177? That’s the best caliber for this airgun. I should have been able to convert the pellet weight to grains, but I wasn’t. Always bad at math.

      Anyway, it’s good to hear from you and I hope you enjoy your new airgun.

      B.B.


  5. Around the early sixties I made a couple of Mare’s Leg versions of the RR. I used the 3″ barrel from a Daisy pistol. I have another old pistol barrel squirreled away in case I want to do another.

    I bought one of the Josh’s basement Air Venturi TF8 guns. It is a real nice gun but someone removed the blade trigger. It has been replaced with a single trigger. It has a heavy pull but no creep so I find it very usable.


  6. BB, good to hear there is some progress.

    Yes, the pistol is in 0.177. It seems to be shooting quite smoothly. I’ve used the Gecos and H&N Sport so far.

    The Geco pellets are 6.9 grains and maybe pretty similar to the RWS Hobby that you like to use. They are cheap and my Hämmerli S26 CO² pistol and the FWB300 seem to like them.

    I wanted to look at the manufacturing date of the pistol, but I’m having trouble getting the end cap off (the little screw is already out) 🙂


  7. Actually, guns like the Red Ryder put me off on pellet guns because they were so inaccurate. I would have been better off with a low cost Diana break barrel with a rifled barrel. I don’t think many of those were around in the midwest in the sixties. We did get a Diana 16 in the late sixties but it was a smooth bore. My dad also got a Crosman 1400 for reasons unknown but as 22 ammo was plentiful and cheap back then, I lost interest in airguns.




        • I never had a Red Rider. What I did have was a Daisy Model 94. I shot it a bunch. Then, one day as I closed the lever the insides went “Crunch”. That was the end of it for shooting. Even so, it still hangs in my garage to this day. That is through two moves as well, it went along for the ride. Next was my Sheridan “C” in 1968. That was like going from a biplane to a jet fighter. Still have the Sheridan with a reseal about eight years ago. Even after I started with firearms I never gave up on airguns. I shoot them as least a few shots most days.

          Mike


  8. Never had a B.B. gun in my youth. I can remember the times I had shot one on one hand before my rural buddies started to get pellet guns for “rifle training”.

    When I was 21 I bought a red Ryder and shot it in the house I lived in. Swinging playing cards were on the menu as well as anything else that would make “too big of a mess”.

    I had to focus on other things in my life at that time but I guess that’s what started my adult career. It was almost 5 years later before I bought my crosman Pumper and I’ve been on a downhill slide picking up speed ever since. 😉


  9. BB
    Wondering why the comments are rearranged today on yesterday’s blog about the Maximus.

    I thought they was posting funny yesterday. Just thought i would ask.



      • BB
        I believe Matt61 seen it too yesterday.

        But my comment was last yesterday with no more comments afterwards. Now it’s about half way down the comments today. Then I replied to Pete yesterday and it was like 5 comments down. Today it is posted right after his comment like it’s suppose to be.

        You know how a thread will keep getting thinner as multiple replies are made to one comment. Yesterday they just kept the same width and comments would post one after the other if multiple replies were made to someone. And you know how if it gets to thin there is no reply button. That never happened yesterday. Now today you can see that also.

        Today the comments look like normal. Yesterday it’s like the comments were just posting one right after the other. Not in their correct location.


  10. Well there is a difference compared to the LP 5G. The spring isn’t held in place by pins but just by the end cap. There is no date marking under the cap.

    The spring is still very straight and there were tool marks on the end cap when I got the pistol. Maybe the spring was replaced by a previous owner. Reinstalling the spring sure is easier when you have pins you can push in instead of a threaded cap 🙂

    I would have looked at the state of the piston seal but I’m a little afraid to mess with the trigger assembly too much… Not sure whether I’ll get it back together the right way.

    Since there may be a fairly new spring installed, the piston seal may be fine / replaced as well… I guess I don’t need to fix what doesn’t seem to be broken 🙂

    Lesson #2: An LP 5G grip does *not* fit on this one. The action / mechanics seem to be 95% identical but those 5% prevent the grip from fitting. It interferes with the trigger blade and other components. Not much of an issue. The 5G grip looks nicer but may actually be a little small for my hand while the plastic grip seems to fit almost like a glove 🙂

    I guess now I’ll have to learn to shoot this thing. So far I’ve been using the one-handed “Colt 1911 hold” BB has described many times and that has worked fine for my HW45 and Hämmerli S26 (co2 powered SIG P226 lookalike). I guess I’ll use this as a starting point for the LP 5 as well.


  11. My 1976 Red Ryder (I got for Christmas in 1976) is a lightning loader. I’m glad I started off with a bb gun. I shot many thousand bb a year. People claim they aren’t accurate, but as a kid, accurate to me was being able to hit the coke can or whatever other object we kids would find to shoot at. We were expert “Plinkers”. Not target shooters. We didn’t fancy shooting paper targets then. It was all about shooting and fun. When you shoot that much, you become a pretty good shot and you know where the gun shoots. Keep in mind I’m not talking about target shooting, but plinking…coke can accuracy. In fact, the first time I shot a pellet gun (Daisy 880), I thought loading the pellets one at a time was boring. That was then. Oh and Daisy has a scope mounts for them too. http://daisymuseum.3dcartstores.com/Bricemount_p_176.html


    • We lived on my uncle’s farm when I was a kid and had quite a problem with English sparrows. My dad could hit them with his 22 but I couldn’t hit them with my BB gun at any reasonable range. That’s why a Diana 23 or 25 would have been better for me but nobody’s going to buy that for a 6 year old kid. To me, the only interesting guns have always had to be accurate.




      • I think a “Western” gun (Red Ryder) is best served with open sights. That said these aging eyes could do well with a red dot sight. I don’t think a big scope is justified on a gun such as this. It’s a can popping gun, not a paper puncher. By the time one bought a new Red Ryder, scope mount and scope, I think he’d do better off with a new Avanti 499 and have a much much more accurate gun. But each to his own and it’s nice to have choices. Who knows, maybe your tests will have a surprise for us…..


  12. B.B. and any of you experienced PCP guys that have used hand pumps, please help. I’ve never owned a PCP gun . My question is on hand pumps. I see they have different psi that they can pump to. My question involves volume, not max pressure. Does certain brands “fill” a lower PSI (2000) gun faster than others or are most hand pumps the same? I didn’t know if say brand X had a bigger bore/pump head, or maybe band Y had a longer stroke, thus providing more volume and a faster fill. I hope this makes sense. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks in advance.


    • Doc

      They seem to fill at about the same rate from what I have seen with four different pumps when filling the same size tank . Some pumps seem to work a bit easier than others, but still not much difference .
      What makes the biggest difference is the size of the air tube/bottle that you are filling . That makes a BIG difference . Small tanks fill much faster than a big one .

      twotalon


      • Twotalon, it would only be to 2000 psi. I’m thinking hard on the new Benjamin Maximus. When it first came out (pics) I didn’t like it. But the more I look at it, the more I like it. I’m a wood and steel guy, but I think I like the looks of it more than the Disco. And Hard Air Magazine just got good results from it shooting 50 yards +. I’m waiting on B.B. to finish before putting it on my wish list. From all I’m told/read, topping off a 2000 psi fill gun from 1,000 psi to 2,000 psi isn’t that big of a deal. Who knows, maybe I’ll step over to the “dark” side on this one.
        Doc


        • Doc

          Doing only a 2K fill should make the pump last longer .Pumping will be easier too .
          I don’t have anything that uses that low of a pressure .
          I am old, tired, weak, weigh about 150, and still manage 3K fills . Takes some work .

          Pump slow, use your body weight, and take some breaks during pumping . Overheating wrecks a pump, along with dirt . Keep it in a clean place .

          twotalon



    • Doc,

      You are going to want a hand pump with the most stages available. I think they are up to four stages right now. The more stages there are, the easier it will be to pump when you reach the higher pressures.



  13. Joe,
    I was pretty soured on bb/pellet guns by then. Might have been different if I started out with an accurate one. But that wasn’t going to happen when you could get a decent 22 single shot for about 20 bucks, which is what my Dad paid for my first one. Bb/pellet guns just weren’t taken seriously back then. Why get a pellet gun when you could have a 22? Makes sense today but not back then.


  14. How interesting. I’ve just developed an interest in the Sharps rifle, and I’ve learned about Billy Dixon’s one mile shot that makes the Quigley bucket shot look tame by comparison. Apparently Dixon called his achievement a “scratch shot” which means lucky, I suppose. But Elmer Keith says that if you practice enough, you get lucky.

    My re-enactment interest is really taking off. Perhaps the desire to be a collector has been awakened in some form. I’ve found a company that scrupulously reproduces WWII uniforms and equipment. Suddenly the thought hit me. In addition to field gear why not get a Marine utility outfit in Sage green. The material is supposed to be very comfortable and durable, and I’ll be my own movie star like Jason Bourne.

    Matt61


    • I have fired the Sharps rifle but don’t own one. Great Rifle. But, I do have a Model 1873 Trap Door. It’s not fancy but it shoots well. I have used it in Cowboy Action long range.

      Mike



  15. I have been thinking all day, about the merger. One thought kept coming to mind,…. re-issue/copies of older models.

    It seems that this bunch is of the older crowd. Hopefully we have done well enough to buy a toy or two when the mood strikes us. In my opinion, this would be a (hot time to strike) on the “nostalgia” market. Many got what they wanted as a kid,…. others,.. wished for,.. hoped for,…. lusted for,…. and never did.

    In another 10-15 years, that market will be lost. 30 year olds will be “ruminating” about the Whisper Fusion they had as a “kid”.

    Just my thoughts,….. 😉


    • Chris USA

      That is very funny!!! I agree with what you have said!

      Although I kinda do it now when I see a beat up plastic Daisy 880 and think how I lusted for that plastic pile when I was young… haha. or the other plastic classics I remember especially my friends 760. I can only imagine how you guys felt growing up in a time where all the greats were dangling right in front of your noses. 😉

      I remember at cub scout camp when I was 8-9 I shot a real wood and steel bb gun. Ill never know what it was. I can’t even picture it clearly.

      Buy on guys!


      • P.H.,

        Glad I did not offend you. 😉 From what I read of your comments,….. you are a “hopeless case”,… 😉

        How did that “trigger not firing thing” work out?


  16. Do you know what I have enjoyed for so many years reading your blog? No fluff. You get right into the gritty and give the readers and potential buyers exactly what they want to know while also delivering the stories in an engaging manner. The pictures have come a long way, and now are perfect. They aren’t advertising photos, they are just right to give the information for the blog subject. I can’t tell you how appreciative I am for the work you do on this blog, thank you.

    This blog is a big reason why I remain an airgun hobbyist, it was my introduction to the airgunning community and continues to be a touchstone for research and inspiration.

    You know what would be a shame? A new blog with beautiful photos and a model quality spokesperson, but little information, One which reads more as an advertisement for products and not valuable information for an in depth understanding of the shooting hobby and the products on review.

    I also have had the feeling for a while now, that you don’t actually write about shooting. Sure the subjects of your posts are shooting related and mostly airguns. But I get the feeling that your true intention has been to write about something else. Not necessarily “lofty goals” but something simple and true. Anyway, I was just thinking is all…


  17. Speaking of company mergers and nostalgia, any word on the new 22 cal GSG / Diana 98 Mauser ?
    I read it has a 460mm long barrel. Could there be Diana 460 underlever magnum in there?


    • Bob,

      As of this time the airguns is released in Germany. It has a plastic stock, and looks very similar to the K98K Mauser. It appears to be an underlever single shot, perhaps the model 52 action turned 90 degrees in the stock.

      No word on its release to the U.S.

      B.B.



      • It has unmistakable Diana features. I recognize the rear sight, the system tube with safety, the scope rail…

        Isn’t it more likely that they used the Diana 460 action since that is already an underlever? I compared pictures and the cocking linkage looks quite similar on the Mauser and the Diana.


      • There is a UK site, Pellpax, that claims the Diana K98 Mauser has a wood stock, photo and all. Perhaps it was a pre-production model? Disappointing to find it offered in plastic. The bean counters strike again. I have the limited edition Mosin Nagant air rifle and an airsoft M1 Carbine that have the new “wood like finish” that does not look too bad for plastic however it appears to be an extremely thin coating of some kind and not likely to wear well.
        Seems to me when manufacturers pass a certain price point on a fine air gun they ought to stop using ” Cheap ” plastic to replace wood and metal to save money.Unless they are replicating existing arms and use some substantial material that actually is an improvement or acceptable replacement to wood. Wood looking plastic is for plinkers.


  18. Triumph and Tragedy

    I got my new Williams peep for my hw30 today. I had a lot of thoughts. One it straight up junks up the gun. I think it looks hopelessly stupid on it. Then I shouldered it. Perfection. I can’t change the insert size (easily) but I can move the sight up and down the dovetail to make it larger and smaller in my eye. I found the perfect spot and tightened it. I got more aa falcons as well, so I went to work. I instantly shot some of my best groups just trying to get “settled in”. After 50+ shots I put together a .395″ ctc group with one flyer. And I mean the flyer made it .395″. This was only at 10m though. Still my best ever. 🙂 I shot the cap of a soda bottle at 20yds (screwed on the bottle, bottle standing up) and clipped a few closed dandelion heads at like 5yds. When I was shooting the soda bottle the wife’s “pet” wild rabbit was in the yard the same distance 4yds to the left watching me. I just let Ol “Bella” be. Lol

    All that sounded pretty alright, huh? Well I got the 36 out to test some barracudas and jsb heavies to let GF1 know the results. I started a decent string and on the 6th shot I pulled the trigger and nothing. Did not fire… so I went to the compressor because I was not going to ruin my spring. And the gun shot while I was releasing the trigger assembly in my compressor. Luckily I was expecting that and prepared…. now I’m not sure what to do with it…. I will research tomorrow I guess.

    GF1 I tried the 10.34s in the 30 but was kinda heated up about the 36 so I picked everything up and went in. Daylight was gone anyway.

    Buldawg76
    If your reading tonight I put a shoulder stock on that 2240 and put it through its paces. Its alot of fun but may get modded… longer barrel and steel breech are on my mind. 😉



      • Fido3030

        I love peep sights. Even the cheapy included on this gun. My only problem is the front blade. If I could make it thinner then it would become much more precise. A longer barrel would help a bit I would think? Probably not as thin as I would like though.


        • PUnchin Holes
          The front sight will pop off by gently tapping the assembly forward. Replacements are only a couple of bucks from Crosman or Ebay. The neat thing about these guns is you can experiment with filing the sights to your liking and even if you screw up completely it’s no big deal! Same with battels, breeches, etc.
          Fido3030


    • PH
      I had several 2240’s with long Benjamin Discovery barrels and steel breeches on them. Used the 1399 stock or the RAI adapter and a AR butt stock. Liked both stocks.

      With the 1399 stock I cut a piece of that a/c foam tube insulation (which I’m sure you used in your a/c biusness) then attached to the top portion with a couple of the plastic zip ties. That helps give a better cheek weld.

      And I have had good luck with my Tasco red dot on them in the past as well as the small UTG Bugbuster scope. They can be focused in real close like 3 yards or far away distances. They make for light easy to carry guns that way.

      Oh and I also had some converted to HPA with the hi-pak screw on conversion. I was filling to 2000 psi and getting a little over 20 shots per fill. But yep there is a lot of aftermarket stuff available for the 2240’s.

      Oh and it liked the JSB 13.95’s too. 😉


      • GF1

        Hey, hey! I have some of that on my service van right now! I have used some in the past between a stock and plastic cheek riser. The riser was not made for a rimfire so the foam took up some slack. I didn’t even think about just using the insulation by itself. It should be the perfect amount as well. I had to adjust my normal position slightly last nite.

        All I have are .22 falcons and a few jsbs left over from my sampler. Woe is me I guess I need another pellet run sooner than I thought! Haha

        I’m definitely going to look into the hpa conversion. My brother and I bought bb pistols a couple years back and bought a stock of co2. Well both pistols were unimpressive, so I have a bunch of co2. But when it’s gone…. I don’t want to keep buying it.

        Def going with a longer barrel. 18″ Max. I really want just 12″ but I know it cuts performance. I kinda feel like lamarr from Joe kid right now with the Shorty barrel. 🙂


        • PH
          I had a .177 caliber Discovery barrel on one and ended up with a .22 caliber Discovery barrel on another after trying a few different caliber and different length barrels on it.

          The longer barrels work real nice if your going to go HPA at some time and it did work good for me with co2. My best shooting one though was with the .177 Discovery barrel and the JSB 10.34’s and HPA. That gun was extremely accurate.

          Some food for thought. Let me know if you do something though. Definitely fun guns though.



  19. There was a time, in the early to middle 70’s when I had an antique photo business. Dress the customers up in antique garb, take the pic, sepia-tone it, and Shazam! Instant antique…staring you!
    Truth be known, many of the marks spent money just to be able to hold our hyper-realistic 1928 (fake) Thompson, even more realistic (also fake) MP40, and even the 1894-ish Winchester “brass-framed-like cowboy gun.”
    It was really a Daisy.
    Fully functional, too.
    Just the thing to snipe flies off the opposite wall (12 feet or so) while waiting for the next customer to walk in. Yes, the wallboard would get replaced on a regular basis. Once one learned just exactly where it shot at that distance, it was near infallible. Good for not-allowed-in-the-studio/house) spiders also. Spiders and flutterbys allowed absolutely free range in the garden and outside, no problem.
    There was an incident, upon which the BB gun was completely irrelevant, but I think to relate it only because it was a bit amusing…
    It seems a young lady wished the curtains drawn that she be might be revealed in her classic, sepia-toned splendifernous. Clad only in a ruby choker and a borrowed High-School Prom Tiara, the presentation was…memorable.
    Except there was something about her that majorly attracted the whole crew of mid-summer flutterbys. It was hot and a bit sweaty on that day and maybe they were just thirsty. But in any case, the lass was not capable of holding still for the exposure.
    About the best I could get from her was a somewhat (but not entirely) arrested tremble.
    Oh, Lordy, we tried to shoo the flutterbys away but when our Mall neighbors started coming around commenting on the proceedings, we unfortunately had to curtail the photo-shoot.
    “David, we are becoming concerned…we seem to see you pursuing a nekid lady around your studio with a tennis racquet …,” sez the guitar refinisher from across the way.
    “Badminton, actually,” sez I, enormously glad I’d rejected the vision of apparently sniping at the nekid lady with a BB gun. I’m sure the Berkeley cops would still be talking about that one.
    In any case, we made a date for the fall when the weather was a little cooler and the flutterbys were not so…present.
    But I never saw her in the Fall.
    And the negatives? Not a one remotely sharp, To this day, I’m not sure if was her trembling or me just vibrating.
    Probably both.


  20. Punchin Holes– You can change the size of the insert by getting a Redfield Merrit disc. I use peep sights on several of my rifles- HW 30S, Beeman R7, Bronco, etc. I have target and sporting versions of the Merrit disc. They contain an iris diaphragm and let you adjust the size of the aperture to the available light. Ed


  21. BB– I just installed a Vortek tune kit in my Huntington Beach Beeman R 7. The original mainspring looked like the one from your Hakim trainer. What surprised me is that I have been shooting this rifle for 3@ years. It performed perfectly, until one day when it started to shoot several inches low (the groups opened up as well). It happened in a test string of RWS pellets, 8 shots ( 10 M), inside a dime and shot 9 & 10 about 6″ below the bull. It chronographed about 200-250 fps lower than previous tests. I thought that the performance of the rifle would deteriorate at a slow, steady rate, as the bend in the spring progressed. Instead it happened all at once. Does that mean the spring bent all at once? I can see this happen if the spring breaks, but this one just developed a bend. I will chronograph this rifle tomorrow, if the weather permits. In the mean time, it is shooting like a new rifle. I know, because I bought a new HW 30S 2 weeks ago, as a backup in case I botched the installation of the tune kit. This is the first time that I took a springer apart. Ed



      • BB,

        I’m not Ed, but your statement made me curious.

        Those rifles both seem to be fairly regular breakbarrel springers. The R7 seems to be what we call the HW30 and the R9 has some resemblance with the HW95. That means the R9 is heavier and has more power, but how is it more complex?

        Stephan


    • Ed

      Thanks for info on the redfield. I will look into it. It would be nice to get the longest sight radius. Even better to adjust for my light and what I’m shooting at.

      Nice job on the tune. O darn now you have 2 incredible little rifles. 🙂 Well I’m sure more from reading. Especially that little bronco.



  22. BB– the end cap on my Huntington Beach R 7 was not threaded. It was held in place by a tiny, easy to loose, hard to replace screw. Once removed, the end cap slid out of the compression chamber ( and the screw began an incredible journey around the floor of my workshop). After much sweeping, and searching with a magnet, I recovered the screw. I was helped by my tuxedo cat, Sylvia. She kooks like your Punky, and we called her Sylvester. She was living in the woods behind our house. When we took her in, we discovered that he was a she, hence the name change. Punchin Holes– Can you put a globe target front sight on your HW? If so, the interchangeable inserts will allow you to use different size front sight blades. My R7 has a fixed front sight, in a dovetail. My new HW 30 has the globe target front sight . Ed


  23. Punchin Holes– Add my Gletcher 1944, my Diana 65 and 22 to the list. And soon, I hope to have a Diana Mauser 98. I have an outdoor range in my backyard, and another range in my basement. I like to have 2 of everything,so that I dont have to shuffle rifles up and down the stairs. The one I want too shoot always seems to be in the wrong place , so one upstairs, and another one downstairs. But it does not end there, because one rifle has a scope and the other has iron sights, so—-I an back to square one , most of the time. Ed


    • Ed

      Haha that made me laugh. My Hw gets to sit outside the case most times. I never know when I may need it. 😉 I do have the interchangeable front sights. I am using the bead and post as of now. I wished I had a tapered post more closely related to the Diana “perflekorn” (if I’m spelling and using that correctly). I am envious of your collection. It is a lonely place to be in a world surrounded by magnum spring blasters. 🙂 I have even been looking at Slavia 618s. I would like a 631 but can’t find one at a price agreeable to me. 🙂 I would like to find a smaller older Diana but my hw30 has me satisfied for now.

      On the subject, how difficult did you find the tune kit to complete on your r7? I did one for my Diana 36 that I found fairly easy but the pins practically fell out for me. 🙂


      • Ed

        Forgot to add that Diana Mauser looks pretty interesting. If it’s the under lever I think I saw you and B.B. talking about. I would love a 430 magnum as I find that is more than enough power as I do not hunt. I really like the idea of the tx200 but it again has too much power and a little heavy. (I know that helps make it the smooth shooter it is)


  24. Punchin holes– It was relatively easy, but better instructions would have helped. I had help from one of my friends, also an air gun enthusiast. I had taken the rifle apart before he arrived. I made the mistake of installing the new breech seal at thast point. It made reassembly impossible ( lining up the pivot bolt holes and the 2 thin washers. We removed the seal and the pin that locks the ball detent. Everything went together after that. I did manage to loose the spring that activates the automatic safety . What a shame, I will have to learn to live without it. I discovered that I could activate the safety by pressing on it, during the cocking cycle. In effect, I converted an automatic safety to a manual safety. This is the way it should have been designed in the first place. I also have a few Slavia 618,s and a 622. They are accurate, and a lot of fun. If you ever visit New York state, let me know, and with luck, we might be able to ger together. ED


    • Ed

      That’s good to know. I took my rifle down the first night I got it go see what I could do about the scraping noise. I fixed it accidently and it had been silk smooth ever since. I could not pound the pins out. I was sure I would have to make a small pin press somehow. Long story short I finally got it put back together by cocking it in my spring compressor and was able to deburr it accidentally and then fit the pin between the breech block and main compression assy.

      Haha funny you should say that. I had a project today that ended with me disabling a safety. I don’t take it lightly but it is kind of nice to know that when I’ve pulled through the first stage and my eye gives signal that it will wane in a second or two that that trigger will pull through every time. 😉

      I live in Illinois but if I ever get out that way I will drop you a line. I find it fascinating the way we are all islands unto our own, sending smoke signals to one another from great distances.

      I think the little Slavia will come home with me if it is still available next week. I find that turtle paced method works well for me. 🙂 Although I have been pretty constant here lately 🙂


  25. Gunfun1,

    I tried the “stock”,… M-rod synthetic stock. Feel was awful. Pull too short. Adj. comb was nice. Groups were no better or worse. Steady was worse. With the 4x16x56 scope, it was top heavy.

    Back on went the RAI stock. Remember why I got it,….. fit.

    Next group at 50 was 6@ 1/2″, 7@ 9/16 and 8 at 7/8″. “Framing” the bull with cross hairs and the 1/2 dot lines really makes a difference. I really need to figure that out for different yardages and see what is best at different mag. levels. It is a bit of a cheat,… but it sure does work.

    I did mess with the trigger adjustments. By the way, drilling out the front shroud support did make it quieter by (a lot). If noise,… or lack there of,… is a sales promoter,…. then by all means Crosman needs to that!

    I will play a lot more tomorrow,…. as I was not on the “mood” today after AM shopping and a really tuff, HOT week.


    • Chris USA
      Glad you tryed the factory stock. It did make you think what if didn’t it. 😉

      And yep even though it was a short week with the holiday Monday it was a hot long one. Glad it’s the weekend for sure.

      And yep target to sight matching works wonders. I been shooting the Brodax today. I still can’t get as focused as I would like with open notch sights. And no I don’t want to add any sights to it. I’m trying to practice as if it would be a carry gun for when I finally go for a firearm pistol. But I tryed spray painting a beverage can different colors. You wouldn’t believe the groups I can shoot with the Brodax now in single or double action with the can painted white. It’s like night and day difference. I could distinctly see the side air gap on my sights as I was getting on target. So yes getting the right sight picture for sure makes a difference. A good red dot sight will do exactly the same thing.

      But speaking of good groups. That is pretty good groups you got with the Mrod.

      And I’m glad you mentioned that about that mod I mentioned about drilling that front air relief piece on the barrel. It seemed to make my Mrods I had and have quieter. And that is a good thing especially when adding the weights like we did with the baffles removed. I think my .25 Mrod would be extremely loud if I didn’t relieve the pressure back to the shroud more with the power it’s making. Plus has to help with turbulence.

      So more shooting tomorrow for you?


      • GF1,

        Yes, for sure. That 1/2 incher got me inspired. That was with random MKII’s also. Yes, Mine was getting pretty loud,…. not that I minded it,…. kind of cool actually,…. but is good now. I also turned the meter screw in a 1/2 turn to play with shot count and POI. I was really trying a lot of different things all at once today, so any data is null and void,….. except for that 6@ 1/2″,….. that one I will count! 😉

        Will keep you posted…… Chris


        • Chris USA
          Yes count the 1/2″ group. Even if you tryed a bunch of different things and you repeat that result then leave well enough alone. For a while anyway. 🙂


    • Chris USA

      Thats pretty good shooting man. You know it man. I need to go lay on a couch and tell someone about my problem… wait I can’t do that, itll cut into my AG fund! Lol just kidding around.

      But seriously though im already looking at something else… haha and i dont wanna jynx anything but i supposedly have a few on the way… i have never used an auction site so im kinda nervous. I really doubt i get ripped off but ill feel better when the items are in my grubby mitts. 🙂 🙂


  26. GF1–And when you get your carry gun, will you be able to get the “bad guys,s”to wear white clothes? You could try spraying them with white paint . Thats why the 1903 Springfield rifle was so good on the target range ( black bullseye on a contrasting white backround), and yet so bad in the field of battle, or hunting. If seeing your sights is a problem , try bright sights, or even glowey sights. You will need sights that stand out regardless of the color of the target. Ed




    • Ed
      And I have orange dots on painted on the back sight as well as the front sight.

      Believe it or not it works great out in sunlight just like the glowy sights. But in the shade or like in the breezeway the rear sight and notch look black. Serious as can be.




        • Punchin Holes
          As Zimbabweed mentioned Springfield sights very good for targets, not as good on battlefield. Also held only 5 rounds. British held 10 and bolt could be operated faster and without taking rifle from shoulder. Mauser sights fine for hunting.
          Like all generalizations breaks down if you look at it too closely, but grain of truth. Imho
          Fido3030


          • Fido3030

            I see what you mean now. I am very fond of speculation, for any reason. I find an opinion can be very valuable even if someone chooses to disagree with that given opinion. I always appreciate someone else’s view point.


  27. And while I’m talking Brodax and open sights. Here is a can I killed with the Brodax shooting pellets at 15 yards with the metal Python clips and pellets. Oh and that is two different aim points. The top of the can and the bottom of the can. 30 shots at each aim point. Or 3 clips per aim point.

    And I hope nobody is getting offended by me posting these short videos. I just thought people might like to see.
    https://youtu.be/e7ficaHfOtw


    • GF1,

      I do not mind. That is what it is all about,… fun. Not a firearms expert by any degree, but a laser dot like I have on the 92FS would be my choice for defense. For a firearm though, the add on pistol grips with lasers built in seem like the way to go. It would be a “no brainer”. My cans at 35, 50, 70 and 100 are well past “spent”. 😉

      As for painting sights,…. I got some model paint,… hard to find these days,… and painted the rear (and front) with green florescent and (then), the tops of all 3 with florescent orange on the 92FS. It gives 2 tones of contrast and you can line up all 3 as is,… or off-set them as in the case of hold over. Looks great and works good, but is nothing compared to the laser dot. I shot the best group ever the other day,…. 3/8″ @ 24′.


      • Chris USA
        I do use the front post up above the rear notch on the Brodax out at 25 yards.

        But it’s minute of 2 litre soda bottle acurracy at that distance. The smaller 12oz beverage cans have pretty much free range at that distance.

        But them smaller cans better be ware. I still got my other 4 air rifles sitting close by just waiting for action. 😉




  28. Recovery and Refire

    Well I dug into the 36 today. I didn’t do any reading just dove into it. I had broke the Ol gal apart and it fired on me so I had thought in the subsequent time about what that might mean… I thought the safety may have been the problem. I removed it (not advocating this, this rifle will never be shot by anyone else or when anyone else is on my range) and put the rifle back together.

    Success! I still keep reaching for the safety each shot but it’s working flawlessly again.

    Next up was to finish my business with the 10.34 jsbs. I sprayed them all over about 1 3/8″ at 15 yds. Then I realized my artillery hold was non existent. Spoiled on that 30! 😉 I loosened up and also remembered I had seated some pellets earlier with good results. So I seated these into the breech and next thing I know I have 6 pellets in about 5/16″? I ran out of light so I will continue testing tomorrow. I ripped a hole in my cheap outside metal trap. I will make a metal insert at work to hold me over till X’mas 😉 I kept shooting into dusk at an orange ball from my childhood. Its funny that ball is over 20yrs old and it has no meaning to me other than it’s usefulness. As a child it was a Dodge ball and now it catches pellets 🙂


    • PH
      How time changes things. Look at that ball again 20 years from now.

      And was going to mention this earlier and just blew past me. But sometimes with my spring guns, I have to cock the gun a second time. Just cock and pull a bit harder. Then the safety will set and the gun should then fire as normal.

      I encountered that when I tryed shimming up a spring gun for more preload on the spring for more power. In other words the spring is getting coil bind where the spring can’t collapse anymore. But sounds like the spring might of bent possibly in your case. Did you check?

      And it seems you keep having interferences with your 10.34 testing. Don’t rush your testing. Take your time and get good results to collect data from. That’s the worse thing to do is rush results. Take your time and enjoy your testing. 🙂


    • P.H.,

      You sound a lot like me when I first started. After a couple thousand shots with the TX, the safety setting became a bit hit and miss. I would have to pull down on the under lever very hard at the end of the cocking stroke. It turned out to just need a bit of lubrication. It was new when I got it. But, like you, I soon was into the guts of it and did a 12 fpe Vortek tune, soon followed by the Vortek H.O. That is where it is at now. I even had a Torrington bearing in at one point to help with spring wind and unwind. So yea, lots of playing around.

      I even did a spring twist test to see just how many times the spring would “wind” itself. Speculations ran from 1-2, 3-4 to 5-6. I put the spring on all thread with a Torrington bearing at each end. Turns out, it only twist like 3/4 of a turn.

      Then, the whole topic of springs, how long, coil diameter, wire diameter, etc.. I have “chopped” several. Past a certain point, a spring will produce no additional force, despite having additional length left,… so why have it? Then there is 0 to no preload. GF1 has done much with that, but I did play with it too. It would be a way to take some of the Wally’s mega springers and tame them down to be a nice shooter.

      Glad you got the 36 going again. Chris


  29. GF1

    Yeah that’s funny. If u would have asked me 20yrs ago when my grandma brought that home from the 5 and dime store if I was every going to have it… I have seen wiffle ball and bats come and go but that little ball just won out somehow? Lol

    O man I was getting upset earlier when my daylight was running low. I have been grouchy last couple of days. I am just Ike that. 🙂 But I got to thinking about how the climb was the best part. 🙂 So I took notes on my targets and “placed a bookmark” on my testing. I still got 120+ shots in, no fatigue and really getting a feel for my rifle at hand. I shot at 15yds again. I can tell my mood dictates how well my shooting will be. It’s all about getting in the zone. I’m working on all aspects of my game at once and sometimes when u look at the targets it’s not that impressive, but today I really learned to filter light through my off eye and clean up that fuzzy post in my sight eye.

    I shot a great group with crow magnums to establish my hw30 gun as a 15yd pester. Do I pest? Not animals, I may be a pest to people at times Lol. But it’s fun to think of what your gun can do in circumstances. Next I’m going to keep testing how long the falcons keep it together at range. I didn’t even get to the AA 8.44s today. Need to do them tomorrow. Probably going to retry the 10.34s seated as well. Rome wasn’t built in a day, or some cliche to that effect. 🙂


    • PH
      Times will change more than you can imagine.
      Keep a eye I. That ball.

      And that is no way to shoot. Frustrated is what I call it.

      But then again. Some people excel when they have that frame of mind.



    • Paw,

      That must have been a variant 4, which was the last Red Ryder 111-40 made with a wood forearm. It was produced in 1946. In 1947 they started using plastic forearms. But guns can last on store shelves for years before they are sold.

      My gun has a plastic forearm, so it’s a later variant.

      B.B.


  30. GF1,

    Back in from dong 70 and 100 yds.. The 50 was getting boring 😉 At any rate,…. 12 eight shot groups with the 33.95 MKII’s. All were straight from the can. At 70 yards.
    1) 3 3/16 w/7 @ 1 13/16
    2) 1 1/2 w/7 @ 1
    3) 3 1/4

    1) 1 5/8
    2)1 15/16
    3) 1 11/16

    1) 2 1/8 w/7 @ 1 1/4
    2) 1 1/16
    3) 2 1/16

    1) 2 1/4
    2) 3 3/16
    3) 3 15/16

    Then 2 ten shot groups at 100,…. 3 11/16 and 4 with the 25.39’s.

    A few other notes, I was messing with the trigger a bit. (2nd. stage and pull weight) I have the pull weight full in and it breaks at 2# 14.8 oz.. I also weighed the stocks and the synthetic weighs in at 1 1/2# while the RAI, as outfitted weighs in at 4#. Also messed with the port screw a bit. It is 4 out from bottom. Oh yea, sprayed some new cans fluorescent orange and replaced the 50, 70 and 100’s. The old ones were tore up so bad that I was shooting (through) them and not even making them move! Maybe just a faint “ting”.

    All in all a fun day. Not the best groups, but not the worst either.


    • Chris USA
      Was it calm today when you shot? Yesterday I had a very, very calm day. Got really good groups. Today I got 7-10 mph winds and changing directions from the left or right and straight at me.

      But the .25 Mrod still shot .650″ ten shot group at 50 yards. The Talon SS is at about .850″ today at 50 yards.

      Usually the Talon will do about .650″ on a calm day. So with the wind it shot a .200″ bigger group. And the Mrod is usually at .600″ on a calm day. It shot a .050″ bigger group today in the wind.

      You see how the bigger .25 caliber diameter and heavier weight pellet didn’t get bothered in the wind as much as the .22 caliber Talon SS did. And the Talon SS is shooting about 50-60 fps slower than the Mrod.

      So weight and velocity should help at longer distances. And maybe your gun might like a different brand pellet then what you have been trying. Have you thought about looking through the other .25 caliber pellets that are available and try some others besides what you have already tryed?


      • GF1,

        Yea, not sure what to make of those spreads. I figure hold and pressure may be at play. I did play with loose, moderate and tight holds at the end. I did not figure PCP’s would that hold sensitive, but apparently they are, (to some degree),…. so I will be exploring that more.

        Yes, it was calm. Since yours is making 100-150 fps more than mine, it might be best to stick to the 25-30 grain range. Nothing really stands out on other pellets. The sad part is that I have done better with both the 33.95’s and 25.39’s.

        As you have said, practice, practice, practice. 🙁



          • GF1,

            I think I would like to see a JSB 10.34 “profile” in a .25 caliber.

            I also played with 1/4 hold overs today as well,…. (as in),… add a 1/4 on the 2nd or 3rd 8 round clip to compensate for a slight POI drop.



            • GF1,

              Are those even listed on the site? If so, why would they,.. if they are not available.

              (By the way,… you growin’ any hot peppers? I got 3 cayenne and 3 hot cherry and 1 cow horn.)

              Why do think round balls would do well?


              • Chris USA
                I did a Google search and found them.

                There is also a .25 caliber 31 grain RWS Superdome that comes up for a Pyramyd Air link.

                I’m guessing they ain’t available anymore or Pyramyd Air don’t carry them because they didn’t sell many.


              • Chris USA
                Forgot to give a answer of why round balls.

                I have tryed them in the past in .177 and .22 caliber. Not excellent results. But not bad either.

                They might just be the right size and weight in .25 caliber to work. Plus we can get typically more fps with our pcp guns.

                Kind of like wadcutters or the dumbell design in bigger caliber smooth bore guns. It could be that just right combination that works.

                I think my Brodax is shooting well because it is smooth bore and the wadcutters may be flying faster without the rifling or the gyroscope oscillation effect that rifling could cause.

                So then look at the round ball. Even with rifling there is no oscillation effect. Velocity control might just be the trick.


                • GF1,

                  Well sir,….. get some and give them a try,….. I am very surprised that you have not already. You,… like me,….. are always willing to give something a go.

                  I would think though,… that the diameter,…. would “fix” the weight,… being round and all.


                  • Chris USA
                    I already would of but I can’t find any round lead balls in .25 caliber.

                    Those links must be old. Pyramyd Air aperantly carried them in the past.


          • Gunfun 1
            When round balls are used in muzzleloaders the rifling twist rate is very slow, as much as one turn in four to six feet. I used to shoot them a lot in 1377 pumpers at two to three pumps.
            Since we can’t do much about the rifling short of a custom gun try low velocity.
            Also the Colt cap and ball revolvers were very accurate with round balls. They used “gain twist” rifling. The rifling at the start had no twist at all. The twist rate gradually increased until it was normal at the muzzle. I wonder if it would be possible to take a soda straw barrel and “untwist” the breech end then remount it. Maybe you or Chris can try that!
            Fido3030


            • Fido3030,

              Really sir,…. you are WAYYYY overestimating my modding skills! 😉

              But! ,.. maybe,… if I took the barrel,…. and made a special vice,…. just maybe,….. ?????

              My method might be 2 pairs of vice grips and some muscle,….. 🙂


            • Fido3030
              Maybe a smooth bore barrel in .25 caliber then shoot round balls.

              But would really like to try the Mrod .25 as is with round lead balls. No new barrel.

              And I would like to see a wadcutter for .25 caliber.

              That’s what’s nice about the Mrods. Velocity can be controlled.

              But I really think a longer pellet will do the trick at longer distances. I would like a pellet but with a bullet design that is like a conventional center fire round and all lead and a type of skirt at the back like our pellets have to seal the projectile for a higher powered pcp.

              In other words a new design that ain’t out there yet. I think it would work.


              • Gunfun1
                Closest i can come to that is from “www.midwayusa.com”their number 619905. It”s an 85 grain lead flat nose bullet. But if you look at the picture you can see it would be easy to saw it to the weight desired. $39.49 for 500. You could also try http://www.leeprecision.com for a mold and cast your own. I believe some are available with a pin to make a hollow base. They have a .22 mold but i didn’t see a ..25. They also have blank molds to make your own and i think they at least used to make them to customer designs. Prices very reasonable. Or make your own mold by drilling 1/4 inch hole between two pieces of steel with locator pins. At least for enough bullets for proof of principle.
                I think you’re on to something for 100+ yard shooting
                Fido3030


                • Fido3030
                  Here is a way I could go. But I’m really trying to stay shooting pellets. I know I mentioned round balls and that was just for the fact of trying because you just never know.

                  But these just might do good in my .25 Mrod with the extra power it’s making.
                  https://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Grizzly_Pellets_25_Cal_31_Grains_Hollowpoint_150ct/1225

                  And again I really want to keep it a pellet shooting air gun. A skirt is all that’s needed really to call it a pellet.


                  • GF1,

                    These (will) be on my next order. They have a lot of 5 star reviews. Odd that they did not show the skirt end. I would fill the front end with some epoxy or wax or something.

                    The HN brand has not done well for me in general, generally fit tight and that can of .25’s with the .22’s mixed in did not sit well,…. but I will give these a go.

                    I do not see placing an order for quite awhile, at this time anyways. You order quite often,….. are you going to try some?


                    • Chris USA
                      Yes I’m going to get two tins to try. That way I can see if the results are consistent from the one tin to the other.

                      And two tins would be $15 for 300. So that’s a little cheaper than the JSB 33.95’s with 300 pellets.

                      So if they work I will probably go to them. And I think I would leave the hollow point alone. I guess you think it’s going to mess with accuracy. I have shot different brand hollow point pellets in the past and seen no difference than the round nose version. But on the other hand I have tryed other brand hollow points and they were terrible. That’s why I say I would just try them as they are.

                      They just might be good. But it’s going to be hard to beat the accuracy of the JSB 33.95’s. And it will be a while before I order too.



                    • Fido3030
                      I thought about that in the past. Even thought about making a a deal out of some bar stock I to swage some pellets. They would look like the old Sheridan cylindrical pellets.

                      But would rather find something right out of a tin that works.


                  • Gunfun1
                    How about putting pellets nose down and filling with solder or woods metal to increase ballistic coefficient?
                    Also how about #4 buckshot for RB? Would need to sort.
                    Fido3030


  31. B.B. — or anyone,

    What are your thoughts about a good training pellet rifle, a first one, for children? I have three boys, 7 to 9, who have all shot the Red Ryder. I’m thinking about a HW 30, but would like to hear what other models to consider. One of my reasons for looking at the HW 30, is the quality. I could see that being something handed down to their children.

    Thanks!
    Jim M.


  32. B.B.,

    Question number 2 from me today — I’m not at my limit, am I? Because this one will probably wear you out.

    When I first started getting into what I will call adult air gunning, I picked up an Umarex Octane from a local big box hunting/fishing store. I got a .177 since they did not carry the .22 version. It’s “okay”, but after discovering your blog, getting introduced to Pyramyd Air, learning what I did not have any awareness of before, etc., I am not all that fond of the Umarex. I think the two things I don’t like are that the trigger is nowhere close to being as good as the other rifles I have picked up over the past couple of years, nor is the accuracy. I think I would like to get a “smoother” shooter in the gas piston category, that maybe also has a synthetic stock like the Octane, but I am not stuck on that thought.

    I am planning to sell the Octane, but feel like I’ll have a “hole” in my collection because I’ve gotten rid of something. Or maybe I’m just really looking for someone to help give me an excuse to buy a new air rifle! This forum is also a support group, isn’t it?

    I do have another gas piston springer, two actually, the HW 90, in .22 and .25. I have picked up a few decent rifles, German and British, and have some high-powered side levers, as well as a couple of good quality under-levers in my collection. My last buy was the HW 50s, and I am really enjoy plinking with that. So much so, I haven’t even put a scope on it.

    I like what I’ve read about the Walther LGU. I also have read many positive remarks about the LGV and Terrus, both of which can be had with either wood or synthetic stocks.

    I know you’ll ask what I want to do with it. I want something I could take a squirrel or rabbit with if I happened to grab that rifle to go in the field that day, but also would enjoy shooting at 10m to 15m in my basement. I am not hung up on the power, as long as it has enough to do some light hunting. I do like accuracy — I enjoy sorting pellets and seeing what I can do at 10ms, or 25m.

    So, the million dollar question — if I have given you enough to get a feel for what I might like — what rifles would you put on a “bucket list”? As far as price — I’m not cheap. I like value. I have my eye on a Daystate Regal XL, so that’s probably the most I’m willing to spend right now.

    And one last add-on, for the readers — is anyone on here remotely close to the Kansas City area? Is there any Field Target — or any kind of air gun shooting going on in / near this area?

    Thanks everyone!

    Jim M.


    • Jim M.,

      If there was a “limit”,…. I would have been thrown out on my ear! 😉

      I will pass on the kid recommendations, but the 30 comes up quite often. As for the adult side, I have the LGU in .22 and can almost say that it will out shoot the TX in .22. Of course, that may be a bit of me,…. but that is the way it usually works out.

      Daystate huh? You have the PCP stuff to go with it? Nice collection you have going there.

      Good to hear from you,…. Chris


  33. Hi Chris! Ha! I had to get that “limit” comment in. I figured I’d better give B.B. as much info as I could to help get an answer, because I knew his first response would be, “what do you want to do with it?”

    I know you’ve said before you like the LGU. I did’t recall you saying it was that close to the TX though — I have that one in .22 — although B.B. said as much in his review. So you’d call the LGU a “bucket list’ one then?

    Ahh… the PCP thing torments me a little. I hate the money you have to spend on the accessories. I have the HW 100. I bought a a hand pump and the little 90 cu. in. carbon fiber bottle…..ugh! Wish I’d spent that money on a bigger tank. I think I should get a compressor, but with what little time I have to get out somewhere I can shoot that at distance, I can’t justify that purchase, even to myself. Hey, didn’t you mention awhile back you got a compressor? A Shoebox? Or am I crazy? How are you enjoying your PCP? Was it a Marauder or Discovery?

    And thanks — good to hear from you. I just haven’t had the time to do much the past few months. Have really had the itch, but am barely getting in some plinking in the basement.

    Jim.


    • Jim M.,

      🙂 Yea, good to see you are doing well. Yes, I got the Shoebox and 90 tank. Perfect for me. Do not forget the low pressure compressor. California Air 5510 SE. 10 out of 5 stars. Super quiet, and if you do your homework, you will find that is not usually the case. Shoebox,….. 10 out of 5 stars again. The Marauder,…. of course! Why?,…. cause you play with it a whole bunch,…. (mods.). .25 caliber,….oooohhhh yeah! Got the RAI kit as I am a bit on the “long” side. Perfect fit. Still learning and playing with it, as you can tell from the above post.

      If you got the coin, the Shoebox will be a no regret. Sip coffee, watch news, eat breakfast,….. done. It does 4100 to 4600 in like 15 minutes. That hand pump will be collecting dust,….. but good for back up.

      Chris


    • Jim,

      The TX200 Mark III for starters.

      If Walther still made the new LGV Challenger I would recommend it in .22 caliber, but it has gone from the stage.

      As for the “PCP thing” I recommend getting a Benjamin Discovery package and seeing if you like it.

      B.B.


      • Thanks B.B.,

        I have already picked up the TX200. How could I not, after all the good things you have said about it in your blog over the years.

        After your comment about the LGV, I spent some time lookin around, made a couple of calls, and got lucky – I found someone with one new LGV Master Ultra left in stock,in .22. It is supposed to arrive Monday!

        Jim


  34. Jim M— I have a new HW 30 and I think that it would be 2 heavy for your kids. Also the barrel might be 2 long for them. The stock has a 14@” length of pull, 2 long for me. You would have to shorten it to 11-12″ to turn it into a youth gun. If you can find one, the Slavia 618 or 622 would be perfect. My Diana 22 or my Haenel model 1 are in the same category. Many clubs (including mine) use Crosman 10 77 co2 rifles. I think that this rifle might be the best choice for you. Check the Pyramyd Air catalog for additional choices. Ed


    • Ed — Thanks. Hadn’t thought of that, as my boys are all very tall for their age. I’m 6’5″ and my wife is 5″8″, so they’re not going to be little guys. Ha ha. I am glad you mentioned the 1077. I had not thought of a CO2 rifle — I like that idea.

      Thanks again!
      Jim


  35. I hope to get some input on getting a little more power out of a new production Daisy Red Ryder. I’m not interested in getting a different gun at this time.

    I have read anecdotal info saying there’s little to nothing to be gained by shimming the factory spring. But there looks to be some gains by smoothing the factory stamped edges and enlargement of the ID of the air tube connected to the piston. This should allow a shimmed/preloaded (or replacement) spring to come into its own. Thoughts?

    The compression chamber and seal is an unknown. There may be room for improvement but I won’t know until I get the gun apart to see what the wear pattern looks like. I have maybe 600 shots on it, I’ve added a couple drops of synthetic oil to it twice.

    There’s quite a bit of spring ‘twang’ or vibration when I shoot this RR. This is something I never felt from removable shot tube-era Daisy guns- and came as something of a surprise. Maybe has something to do with the new style power plant. Or maybe it’s just my particular gun. But whatever it is, I’d like to get rid of as much of it as possible. I’m not wild about using tar, any other ideas?


    • Cobalt327,

      Welcome to the blog.

      There is very ;lttle that can be done with a Red Ryder mechanism. It is pretty much maxed out where it is.

      Twang is always due to sloppy tolerances. But with a Red Ryder using black tar will rob you of the velocity you already have. I recommend not doing it.

      I think you need to learn how a BB gun mechanism works, because it is different than a straight spring-piston. Maybe I will address that this Friday.

      B.B.


  36. Yeah. I know how this power plant works- I’d outline it in greater detail here but for brevity let’s just say there’s a small initial boost given by the air tube striking the BB that sets the BB in motion before the main boost from the compressed air charge passing through the air tube accelerates the BB to its maximum velocity. I do not agree that it’s “maxed out” as supplied from the factory. The spring and spring guide can be polished but the biggest gains will be work done to the air tube. A better designed air tube would be ideal but the factory air tube ID can be opened up and the as-stamped edges and orifices can be smoothed to allow air to pass easier- similar in concept to porting an internal combustion engine’s cylinder head. Once the air tube is able to flow more air, any additional piston velocity gained by either preloading or replacing the factory spring will add MV and not be wasted by the system’s restrictions- much like reducing exhaust backpressure in an automobile exhaust system.


  37. Pingback: Daisy’s Red Ryder: Part 2 | Airguns: Air Rifles and Pistols


  38. And I should add- it my opinion there are gains to be had, but I could very well be wrong! I may find that the “pool cue shot” given to the BB by a ‘hopped up’ plunger sends it down the barrel too far. If the BB is near the muzzle before the compressed air charge is released, some of the charge may be wasted because the BB will have already exited the barrel before the full air charge has acted upon the BB. Possibly making the air tube shorter could offset this somewhat but this is all conjecture at this point.


  39. Pingback: Daisy’s Red Ryder: Part 3 | Airguns: Air Rifles and Pistols


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