Using peep sights: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

This report covers:

  • Adjustable-iris peeps — Merit
  • Gehmann adjustable peep
  • Tunnel sights
  • Front sight elements
  • Target post
  • Hunting inserts
  • Unusual front sight
  • Target aperture
  • Clear apertures
  • Last word on inserts
  • How do you hold over or under?
  • Peep sights on handguns
  • Summary

Normally I don’t do what I’m about to do, but the reader response to the first report on peep sights was overwhelming. We finished last Thursday with more than 150 comments, and as of this writing there are 248 comments. That propels it into the ranks of the all-time best reports! I had to put Part 1 in the title several days after publishing, because I knew there would be a Part 2.

Today I will address the discussion points and questions brought up by readers, and add a few point of my own. Sit back and enjoy!

Adjustable-iris peeps — Merit

There was some discussion about peeps that offer holes of different sizes. The most famous of these is the Merit Iris Shutter Click adjustable peep sight. This one has been around for at least 75 years and probably longer. I own one and it used to fascinate me. I will show you mine next to a dime, to illustrate the size.

Merit peep
The Merit peep sight with adjustable iris is small.

The Merit is nice because it offers flexibility. However, the unit is small and doesn’t block out light as well as some peeps. I found that I would rather have a disc with a hole of a known size than one that adjusts and might not always be where I expect it to be. The Merit has no markings, so you never know for sure where you are. I haven’t used mine in 20 years because of this.

Gehmann adjustable peep

Gehmann is a well-recognized producer of sights for target shooters. One of their popular products is a peep that offers adjustable holes. It is meant for target shooters, so the holes are never as large as hunters would want, but this is a precision unit that I enjoy using. It has numbers that correspond to the hole sizes, so there is never a need to wonder what you have selected.

Gehmann 1
This Gehmann rear sight attachment has different peep holes of specific sizes.

I have another sight attachment that I think is a Gehman made for Anschütz. It bears the Anschütz name. This one has no specific hole sizes and adjusts smoothly from very small to as large as it will go — which is still pretty small and is meant only for target shooting. This one also has colored filters that allow the shooter to select one of three shades of yellow, three of gray and one that is completely clear. I like this one so much that it is permanently mounted on the rear sight of my FWB 300S.

Gehmann 2
I’m pretty sure Gehmann made this rear sight attachment for Anschütz. The hole adjusts within a small range and there are 6 colored filters to choose from.

The Merit and the various models made by Gehmann are the two adjustable peeps that are currently available. There have been others over the years, so don’t be afraid to look for them at gun shows. They all do pretty much the same thing, which is to allow the shooter to adjust the size of the hole in the peep sight.

I’m going to keep this discussion constrained to peep sights, only. There are other optical devices that allow shooters to adjust the level of light coming in through the sights. Most of these attach to glasses and are a whole different topic than peep sights.

Tunnel sights

This is a very rare type of peep sight that you won’t find today. There is not much information about it, either. I owe all I know about them to blog reader, Kevin, who told me about them when he visited me years ago.

The tunnel sight is a very long peep sight (it looks like a scope) that basically focuses the sighting eye to the point of maximum acuity. It was combined with a Tyrolean stock to position the head in the same place every time. Both the Tyrolean stock and the tunnel peep were outlawed for competition within the first year after they were used, as it was felt they gave too much advantage to the shooter. This is similar to the 500-gram minimum trigger pull weight limit for air pistol competitors — where free pistol competitors have no minimum and can set their triggers at less than an ounce.

Tyrolean
The Tyrolean stock is characterized by the deep-cupped cheekpiece. It was banned from air rifle competition, along with the tunnel peep sight.

Front sight elements

Now let’s talk about the front sight that you see through the peep. Many front sights that are used with peeps have interchangeable elements. Let’s look at a few of them and see what they are for.

Target post

The target post is a traditional front sight element that is for shooting bullseyes. The top of the post is positioned at the base of the bull at what we call the 6 o’clock position. If you have a rear notch you would have to make sure that the front post is also level with the top of the rear notch, but with a peep your eye automatically centers the front element. Unless you consciously hold it at a different place, all you need to do is align the top of the front post with the bottom of the bull.

posts
These three target posts, obviously from different front sight globes, show the range of post widths you might encounter.

Hunting inserts

A peep can also be used with a variety of hunting inserts. None is better or worse — they just cater to personal tastes.

hunting inserts
Here are three common front sight inserts that are used with peeps. The perlkorn or tapered post on the left is common. Sight so the pellet strikes at the top of the post. The bead in the center is also common. Sight so the pellet strikes where the bead is. The insert on the right is a common one, but it’s not one I use. Sight so the pellet strikes at the intersection of imaginary lines that run between the stubby posts. I imagine this sight is used for rapid target acquisition and for running targets.

Unusual front sight

This one is unusual enough that I have never seen one. It’s for hunting, but it is also very refined. You can see that the front bead is framed by 4 wires that highlight its location for acquisition.

unusual front sight
This front sight is unusual, but obviously for hunting.

Target aperture

Now we come to the single insert that works best of all of the older ones for target use — the aperture. It fits the front globe and is a near-perfect frame for the bullseye in target shooting. They come in many different sizes so you can have more or less light around the bull when you sight. And of course there are bulls of different sizes to be considered. I still use apertures like this on several of my target rifles.

target aperture
This is the front insert most target shooters choose. It’s much easier to use than the square post.

Clear apertures

One problem with the target aperture is you can shoot at the wrong bullseye without knowing it. In the 1960s or ’70s someone came up with a brilliant idea to fix that. They took a thin piece of plexiglass and drilled a small hole in it. The angle of the edges of the drilled hole looks like a solid circle to the shooter, which puts a perfect ring around a bullseye. But, because the plastic is clear, you can now see which bullseye it is!

clear aperture
Clear aperture inserts come in a holder like this. The sizes of the holes are hand-written on each insert.

Last word on inserts

It should be obvious but it isn’t — not all inserts will fit all front globes. In fact, this is the number one issue shooters have. Not only are there different sizes of inserts, they also attach and fit in different ways. Owners have to ask whether an insert will fit a globe for an Anschütz rifle made before 1981, and things like that. Like PCP fill probes, there is little standardization.

How do you hold over or under?

This one is simple. You hold over by consciously holding the front sight higher than the center of your vision. In other words, the top of the front sight appears to be above where you want the pellet to hit. It’s easy, but you have to think about it to do it. Same for holding under. Don’t make this harder than it needs to be.

Peep sights on handguns

Peep sights don’t work on handguns. If you think about how far a rear sight will be from your eye when you hold the handgun, you will see why. This question comes up all the time and I think it’s because a peep sight is so effective on a rifle.

In the past there have been experiments with novel sighting systems for handguns that work something like peeps, but allow the gun to be held normally. Nothing has come to market yet.

Summary

That’s all for today. There is still a little more than could be told if there is interest. But I think we have hit all the high points.

214 thoughts on “Using peep sights: Part 2

  1. Great report!

    The comment “there is still a little more that could be told if there is more interest” is a baited statement.

    I am sure there will probably be a part 3.

    And this one may come close to part 1 on the comment count.

    Ian


  2. Off Topic

    Nova Freedom .22cal Pump PCP Rifle
    Found the air leak. It’s the 4.5K blow out valve next to the bulk air fill port inside the pump handle housing space.
    Pretty sure it’s escaping from inside it and coming out the air relief port on it’s side. Being recessed I can’t determine for sure . Too close to the threads and bubbles spread very rapidly filling the recess. It’s a company only replacement item.
    Bob M


    • Bob,

      Have you tried using any silicone chamber oil? I like to place a drop in the female foster fitting on occasion when I charge up my PCPs. It will help to “refresh” your seals and lubricate valve parts. I was able to fix a minor leak on my Edge by doing that. If you have a leak, the oil will migrate to that point. I would not over do it, just a drop or two and I would most certainly not use any petroleum product.

      If it still leaks, I’ve got nothing for you.


      • RidgeRunner, BB

        Yes I will, This is a new rifle so any seals ‘should’ be OK. I don’t have any idea what’s inside the little 3/8″ head relief valve. I thought about over pressurizing it to 4,500 psi to actuate it and perhaps reseat it but I’m not sure the hand pump would cooperate or something may go wrong. Going to see if they will just send me a replacement. It’s under warrantee but hardly worth the shipping cost. Could just plug it. Do any other airguns have built in relief valves?


        • Bob M,

          My 4500 psi compressor is protected by a blow out DISK. It is an aluminum disk that gets push through a hole if the pressure behind it is too high, thus punching a hole in it and letting out the air pressure. It is a one time use device that has to be replaced once it erupts, so, in the event that your gun is similarly protected, I wouldn’t over pressurize it. The disk just lays flat over a hole in your pressure vessel. A threaded plug, which has a similar hole drilled through it to the atmosphere, is screwed down on top of it and tightened to create a seal. If that plug is not screwed down tight against the disk, air can seep around the disc and out the hole without the disk being punctured. The plug has a hex shape to it and a socket will fit over it for removal to replace the disk. If you can tighten the plug, then that is what I would try. I think I recall that a seal kit was included with your gun. See if there are a few small, thin, round metal disks in it. That would confirm that the pressure relief is just a blowout disk, as I described. From my experience with hydraulics I know that the other methods and devices that are used for pressure relief of 1000s of psi pressures would be bulky, complex and much more expensive than what I’d expect to be included on a gun in this price range.

          Hope this helps and Good Luck.

          Half


        • Bob M,

          I just looked at the photo of the fill port of your gun on the HAM article and it does seem to have a blowout disk as an overpressure safety device. That’s just what my compressor’s looks like. If tightening it doesn’t stop the leak, remove it and make sure there isn’t any debris preventing the plug from sealing tight against the disk. I know you know to bleed all the air out first but I’m going to say it anyway, just for my own peace of mind.

          Half


          • Half
            Nova Freedom PCP

            Well you nailed it.
            It was not tight at all. I tightened it in increments, leak checking between turns until it stopped. Did not want to totally crush the disk or over tighten it.

            So far so good !!

            I was not sure if there was a torque involved or that I might crush it, strip it out or otherwise destroy it by overtightening it before you explained how it most likely works.

            By the way pumping it up to about 2,800 psi was fairly easy. After that it took a lot more and a little harder pumps to move the needle. I used the bleed screw in front of the fill port to avoid hitting the valve hard without air in it.
            Also I could not remove the stock to totally investigate it. Got it loose but the front has some sort of plastic snap latches that may well break if forced. Must be a trick to it.

            Thank you Sir … Made my day!
            Bob M


            • Bob,

              Very nice! 🙂 I thought that the idea of a pressure valve was a bit odd too. Pressure disk much more likely. Not 100% sure, but I thought the words burst disc were used in a HAM review.

              Onward! 😉


              • Chris
                Yes he did use the word disk, followed by a ?

                I did not think it was big enough for a spring that powerful but with todays technology who knows what was inside and …. The service manual calls it a “Automatic Overpressure Relief Valve”. “If damaged or it loses function, please send to authorized repair department for ( Get this ) tuning or a new valve replacement” Very misleading for a burst disk.

                But to be honest my “Rememberer” is not what it used to be and I forgot that point in the HAM review. Don’t ask how I remember BB using that word. Perhaps the statement really hit home with me.


                • Bob,

                  🙂 ,…. I can relate. A Bellville washer (might) be able to be incorporated into a non-destructing pressure relief mechanism/valve and still remain pretty thin.

                  Looking forwards to more shooting reports (when you get around to it).


                • Bob,

                  Also, on the disk,… it was not something that I have heard of before and that is why I remembered it. It also impressed me that they did it. That helped too.

                  A pressure relief (valve) might be a good idea though. It could be set to a range that would prevent a valve lock situation.


                  • Chris
                    I agree, especially using a compressor to fill one, and this rifle would probably fill up fast with it’s small reservoir.
                    But I tell you one thing, you are very unlikely to over pressurize this rifle when you are working with a hand pump. You really pay attention to the pressure gage so you can stop pumping !
                    I really like this Nova Freedom and I could swear the ping sound if fading away?
                    It’s there and then again it’s not. May have to do with the pressure on hand. Anyway it’s not very disturbing at all.



                    • GF1,

                      I knew that. I should have been more clear,…. I had not heard of them on a PCP air rifle.




  3. BB
    An old trick to read something when you forget your glasses is to make a fist and look through the very small opening you leave in the center. Do these somewhat large peeps block out enough light to be used without glasses or would it be the job of “Other optical devices” that work with glasses.
    Is there any sighting device that functions with or without glasses?

    I’m guessing a flexible eye shading cup would have to be used with it to block all the light.
    Bob M


  4. BB,

    Most of the clear aperture inserts I have encountered are pretty standard on 18mm and 22mm, however the front aperture of the Edge is 19mm I do believe. For the more common size front globes you can get an adjustable front iris. In recent years they have come up with glowy thingy inserts for the front aperture.

    In the red descriptive text of the hunting inserts “The insert on the left is a common one, but it’s not one I use.” that should be “right”. I like that insert by the way.


  5. B.B.

    When I try and use “hold over” with a front post, the post actually blocks my view of the intended target.
    What an I going wrong? An illustration would be helpful.

    Thanks,

    Yogi


    • Yogi,

      You are holding over too much. You don’t have to hold that high for targets within the reasonable range of your gun.

      Put the tip of the front sight 3/4 high in the peep and you will land high on the target.

      B.B.


    • Yogi,

      Holding over will obstruct your view of the target. You’ll have to use other sighting references that are in the periphery of the target. Elmer Kieth used a front sight with graduations when was shooting long range with his revolver. I imagine something like that could be applied to the front sight of you are going to be doing hold overs on a regular basis.

      Siraniko


      • Siraniko
        What I seen so far with my perp on my HW30s. I can still raise the front post up in relation to the rear sight.

        In other words the front post is not centered when looking through the peep.

        Does that make sense how I explained it?


        • Gunfun1,

          Yes it makes sense to me. The sight plane of the peep appears to be higher than the sight plane of the open sight. I think you ought to shoot it first to see how much of an adjustment you have to make with regards to either or both sights.

          Siraniko


          • Siraniko
            I shoot open sights at longer distances by putting the post higher than the rear notch.

            I figured what the heck. Why not try it with the peep.

            It works.


          • Siraniko
            And I don’t have the factory rear sight on my HW30s with the rear peep. It was getting in the way of my front sight and target.

            All I see now is the target and front sight.


  6. B.B.,

    The tunnel peep sight is a real rarity. I’ve been googling for an image of one and I cannot find one. I imagine that it looks like a combination of a long scope eye cup from the objective to the eye and extends forward for about 6 inches.

    Siraniko


    • Siraniko,

      Yes and it may be even longer than 6 inches. And I have never been able to find a picture of one, either. If I ever find one I will buy it just so I can get some information out there.

      If I could find out enough about one I would build one.

      B.B.


      • BB

        The tunnel peep on the Tyrolean seems to be the one that is on my Walther LGV Olympia. I did not realize it was a tunnel. How long can the tunnel be and still be legal in competition?

        If I make a fist around the end of an unattached pistol barrel (or rifle barrel) and look through the bore with my fist close to my eye there is no outside light interference. Is this a tunnel peep? Rubber eyecup could be attached to the barrel.

        I have more but will wait. This topic fascinates me.

        Decksniper


      • Hey B.B., Siraniko,
        I’ve been trying and trying and can’t find a pic of one either…very frustrating!
        Now I really want to see one!
        I’ll keep at it, and if I do get one, I’ll post it here. =>
        take care all,
        dave


      • Tunnel Sights or Tube Scopes made by the famous German company Hensoldt Wetzlar are approximately 4 1/2 inches long. These tube scopes are 1x – 1.5x magnification. The reticle is very similar to a German #1. The only adjustment on the tube scopes adjusts the height of the vertical portion of the reticle (elevation). The unique mounts for these tube scopes are works of art and in various fashions adjust for windage.



        • Kevin,

          Thank you very much for the pictures. Now I don’t have to lie awake speculating what it looks like. It seems the tube diameter is in the order of half an inch. Using an externally adjustable scope mount (?) and a foot length of conduit I think the experience of a tunnel peep sight can be recreated. Thank you again Kevin for also giving us a peek of your collection.

          Siraniko


  7. Three comments.
    For plinking or matches where holdover may be needed, install the insert with your favorite post upside down. Just sight from the top of the target instead of the bottom.

    Other than the Williams sight, does anyone make a peep that will mount to the dovetails on a rounded receivers of air rifles? The only ones I have seen require a flat mounting surface.

    The front peep on Weihrauch rifles are not 18 or 22mm. They seem to be an HW only size.




    • TJK
      That’s a very good idea on flipping the front globe sight.

      And Benji-Don asked that when we was talking on yesterday’s blog.

      He posted two good ideas. Maybe he will see your comment and post the links here.


      • GF1,

        I checked on a previous Crosman parts order today. As I was on the phone today I went ahead and ordered the barrel to dovetail adapter for the Challenger. I will let you know 8f the work on the standard Crosman barrels.

        I was looking for a way to mount a front glbe sight with inserts, I will order the front globe sight once I get the barrel converted with a dovetail.

        Don


        • Don,

          You my want to look into a thing called a Bloop Tube; they are used to mount globes on clean barrel muzzels (ones without a dovetail cross or linear) with the added benefit of alloing the sight radious to be lengthened. They also have an additional benefit if adjusted correctly of moving the barrel hrmonic node for accurizing.

          http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150603#/topics/150603

          n.b.,they also help us older shooters by moving the front sight a greater distance from our eye. The issue most of us Geezers face is called limited Accommodation…and I don’t mean hotel rooms!

          This oughta get GF1 into a whole new frenzy, Lol! I promise GF1 it to will work!

          shootski


          • Shootski,

            Thanks for the info. The gun I want to put a globe sight on with inserts is my Crosman 101 with a .22 cal Maximus barrel the barrel is already loooong. I am thinking the dovetail adapter is mounted with set screws and could also be used to try some harmonic dampening tunung, if i can adjust the location on the barrel in small enough increments.

            I had forgot about bloop tubes, good call.

            Don



          • Shootski
            And I checked out the link

            I didn’t see any picture of what you are calling a bloop tube.

            What does it do? The one your talking about that is used for firearms.

            Oh and please stop referencing my name when you know nothing about me.

            And on we go.


            • GF1,

              Hmm…didn’t realize I was stepping on your toes! I’ll try and avoid that if I can and let you know I wear steel toed boots myself.
              If you read some of my other posts today you may learn that Bloop Tubes are very much related with peep sights. They are used to extend sight radius (which helps to see the front sight and target more clearly at the same time for some folks with the age fight hurting their shooting scores or varmint/vermin hits) also protect barrel crown, can mount a Barrel Tuner. They (Bloop Tubes/barrel extenders) have been used on Olympic 10M air rifles for at least the past 25 years.

              hth!

              Steel toe equiped…
              shootski


              • Shootski
                Ok so basically it’s a extension for your front post.

                Kind of like a muzzle brake but extends the distance of the front sight? If so that should help with focus of the front sight.

                And toe step’n. No. Just wondering why you reference Gunfun1. Don’t worry about what I think or like. Just give info about what you comment about. The more info the better. But not what I may like or want. I’m just another reader on the blog ya know.


            • GF1,

              Sorry,.. I have to go with Shootski on something getting you into a “whole new frenzy”. I got a good chuckle out it.

              I personally would take that as a compliment. You go full force into something and that is to be admired. Plus,.. you shoot a lot and give us nice post’s, along with nice pics. Come on man,… how many times have you whipped me into a frenzy with some new idea? 😉

              Passion for something is a good thing. M-rod at 100 tomorrow AM.


              • Chris
                You just shoot’n or you got something your experimenting with.

                I’m getting ready to check out what kind of front sights there are for my Condor SS to be able to use my peep on it. Whish I had it already. I would be trying it today.


                • GF1,

                  Just shootin’ and not much of that. Always something. New things and experimenting always manage to get my enthusiasm going though. Tomorrow AM should be real good.

                  Looking forwards to your 100 yard peep reports.


                  • Chris
                    Well it looks like it will be a bit before the Condor SS gets the peep.

                    The AirForce front sight is a special order. I guess I will call PA after the holiday and see how long it will take to get.

                    But the price ain’t bad. Here is the one I’m going to get. And it does come with a clear insert which I want to try out too. They say that gives your field of view back with the clear inserts. And that’s something that does bother me about the peep sights.

                    But here is the front sight I’m talking about.
                    https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/AirForce_Front_Target_Sight_Fits_Most_10_Meter_3_Position_Rifles_All_AirForce_Guns/2238


                    • Gf1,

                      Looks good enough to get the job done. I am surprised that you have not run across something else (better) yet that would work as well. The 3rd close up pic looks a bit crude. 40$ might go a ways onto something better.


                  • Chris
                    The thing it’s made by AirForce so it should work right on the AirForce guns.

                    Plus it needs that adjustable rise adjustment to match up with the high scope rail the AirForce guns have. Here’s a picture of a Condor SS. You will see how high the front sight needs to go to match the rear sight hieght.


                  • Chris
                    Plus with the front sight I gave the link too I could lower the front sight for long distance shooting by the elevation slide adjustment. Then mark it. Then slide it back up for 50 yard shooting and mark it. The 50 yard setting should fall into a usable range of distances like my HW30s and FWB 300 with the peep sights. The Condor SS shoots pretty flat so I think I could get 20 yards out to 65 yards out if the 50 yard hieght setting.

                    And come to think about it. With the front sight setting at a 100 yards I could possibly have a shooting range of distances from 75 to a 125 yards. So I definitely want that AirForce front sight I gave the link too so I can get the range of adjustability for distances.


  8. One of the common peeps out there is the sheet & pot metal several brands had used. The pot metal dovetail mounts though were not well defined, soft and seldom gripped well enough for a spring recoil. This repurposed UTG mount cured the issue.




      • Another view, it does hang onto the Hatsan/Hammerli PCP platform with no kick.
        The mod is easy enough and hand tools should be sufficient.

        1) Cut off the dovetail grip portion of the Peep
        2) Modify with file or mill the width of the UTG overhang to fit inside the top of the U shaped portion remaining on the peep.
        3) Drill & tap or perhaps through hole with nuts the Peep underneath.

        UTG = Under The Gun, the vast majority of products I have mount on top 😉

        Hope this helps


        • Huklbery
          I have a Gamo sight that is pretty much like that. It came with a FWB 300 I have. Got the front sight to with a insert in it.

          Is that a HW30 you have that peep on? And how is that Hatsan pcp with the peep? Have you shot it out at some longer distances?


          • Yes, its a HW 30, stock other than a rear set trigger I bought from a english outfit. I mainly shoot 10m with these two rifles at the club (though the Hatsan shoots at a blistering high fps for 10m paper work). The front sights I use are the globe circle for target, I think the front on the Hatsan was a combo I got via CZ for the 200. CZ USA had some air rifle stuff that I suspected they inherited when they took on the line (this same sheet metal peep), they blew it out for cheap a few years back.


            • Huklbery
              That would be my next choice for a front sight too. With that sight you can pretty much see the whole object your shooting at. In my case a pest I’m trying to rid for someone.

              And that Hatsan pcp just looks like it could be serious stuff out at longer distances.

              Do you know anyone that shoots perps at longer distances?


      • Huklbery

        My mistake. I do not have the components already on hand. I do have two Avanti diopter peeps. One is mounted directly on my HW30s and seems to be holding. My HW50s may or may not.

        Decksniper


  9. Oki got some things to say.

    First the black Gehmann sight you have the picture of above is the one I got. It is the 510. And I did have to get the 585 adapter so it would fit the Williams FP peep sight I got from PA. I’ll say more about it in a minute.

    And next. The Merit sight is the other one I was looking to get. And it’s seeming like it’s not made anymore. All places I checked are out of stock and merit will not sell direct from their website. I did not bother to contact them to find out.

    And here is what went on yesterday when I got all my stuff. The sight and adapter all went together easy and secure. As well as on my HW30s.

    To start with the peep sight doesn’t have any way to use the stop holes in the dovetail. So I was worried if the sight would get hammered back like scopes do on spring guns. And yes even mild spring guns like my HW30s. But no movement yesterday with over a hundred shots fired. More like a half tin of 500 I went through.

    Next was getting the front sight type I wanted. And to start with the Truglo front sight I got was just too big of a diameter for me. Here is the one I chose from the ones that came with my HW30s. It’s small and that’s what I like about it. I can still see what I’m shooting at without covering it up.

    I’ll post this comment and picture and continue. Sorry I said I had alot to say.



      • BB
        Ok thanks. Cause you see I already made another comment and I have one more to go.

        But I have to say this right now. And I have to stress this. I totally like the peep sight.

        And I have something to say also at the end of my next comment that I faintly remember as a kid. And I’m hoping you are someone else may know about what I say.


    • Next about the adjustable opening in the Gehmann peep sight. It’s absalutly awesome.

      I can open up to brightly see the target. And what I thought could happen did happen. I could focus at different distances and adjust for light conditions. If the target was in the shade or out in the middle of yard in bright sunshine.

      To me it works alot like the ocular lens on a scope. But in a bit different way. With a scope your trying to sharpen the reticle. With the peep your trying to focus the front sight and the target.

      So with the adjustability of the Gehmann sight I was able to rotate the outer adjustment to kind of do like what your AO adjustment does on a scope at different distances. Again kind of the same but different. What it amounts to is i can always get a sharp target image as well as the front sight image.

      The next thing is it sighted in just like my Tasco red dot does more or less. Put the dot on the center of my target and shoot. And I chose 25 yards to place my target and zero the peep sight. 5 shots and I had it hitting dead center.

      So then I shot at some targets. Only a few distances for now. I shot at 15, 25 of course and 35 yards for now. Guess what. I aimed at the center of the bull each time and the pellet hit where I aimed. So it did basically like the open sight did as well as when I had the Tasco red dot on it. Today I’ll try out to 50 yards. And I do know I had to aim a little over with the red dot and open sights at 50 yards. But so far so good.

      And I’ll stop for a second here. But I’ll reply back with some of the what should I call it. Not so good things. And those things are not really bad things. It’s just another part of what is.


    • Gunfun,
      I also was worried about the Williams FP moving on my HW30S.
      However, like you, I have hundreds of shots through the gun and it hasn’t moved.
      The front sight insert that came with the gun was a perlkorn tapered post.
      It bugged me that the top of the post was not centered
      (as this is a plinking gun, I want it to shoot where it looks).
      Hence, I epoxied a bit of 0.030″ wire to the back of the tapered post;
      it now looks like the attached pic and works great.

      On a related note, as usual, B.B. has done a great job of presenting a LOT of info on peep sights!

      A couple of more guys that sing their praises,
      and point out why they work so well under varied background and lighting conditions,
      can be found here…

      https://www.chuckhawks.com/aperture_sights.html

      and also here…

      https://www.chuckhawks.com/sights_scopes.htm

      B.B., this is working out to be one of your best threads ever! =D


  10. Ok hopefully this is it. And this is the things that I noticed right away.

    First is when the sight diameter of the peep is opened to the max I can see the target the best. It’s bright and it just like hits you in the face. Just like very detailed. And that’s out in the bright sunshine.

    So that’s all good. But I couldn’t see the front post clear. Matter of fact I just about couldn’t see it. It was a fuzzy blurry. But as I started dailing the hole diameter smaller I could see the front post sharpening up. Then I got it. I had the post and target focused.

    So now here is what got me next. As I dailed the diameter smaller then I started seeing my floaters in my eyes. And to say very distintly. So I went closed as much as the peep would adjust. In other words the smaller the diameter it can be adjusted to. Well the target got fuzzy again as well as the post. And it was like my floaters in my eye was magnifeid. So it is what it is. But again like the AO adjustment on a scope. You got to have it right for what your shooting at.

    And this is really nothing either. But I’m definitely quicker and can see my next target quicker with my Tasco red dot than the peep and to place the sight on target. The next best is the open sights. Then the peep. But the peep is definitely more precise when it comes to groups. Which amazes me. The peep equalled the scope groups with my HW30s. Better the groups than the open and red dot sight.

    So that’s it on all that.

    Now here is the last thing about something I remember as a kid. But I’m sure I was young, maybe 10 or so years old.

    But I remember finding a brown wooden box about 6″ long by about 3″ wide. And those are rough measurements I’m trying to remember. But I opened it and inside was like a red velvet type clothe with places that held different what now I think was peep sights for one of my dad’s guns.

    They was different types. Almost like camera lenses you would attach to 35 mm cameras. But they was small like the more exspensive Gehmann sights. I think it was peep sights for a Garand he had. I do remember the Garand had that elevation peep on it when I was in my teens. But it didn’t have any focus adjustments like what the Gehmann sights have. I’m thinking he kept all his good sights there in that box for his Garand.

    But anyway that’s the best I can remember. And I wonder if that was some kind if set of sights you could buy back then.

    Ok I’m done now.


    • GF1,
      Glad you are having fun with the peeps! Dont eat to many they really mess with your blood sugar! Lol!
      As far a your dad M1 Garand front inserts you are probably right although I have no proof to support that statement. I wish my Fater-in-Law was still alive since he was an Army instructor during WW-II. So I can only provide you with this from a favorites link of mine:
      https://www.google.com/search?q=m1+font+peep+sight+inserts&oq=m1+font+peep+sight+insets&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33.35999j0j8&client=tablet-android-lenovo&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

      Hopefully you are completely addicted to Iron Sights… especially PEEPS on rifles. I’m in the market for a TRITIUM front post for my AR-15 and for my CAR -4!
      Almost like your red dot! Just like I told you…pluses and minuses like with everything. Next time you see your eye doctor ask about the floaters there MAY be something, NOT ALL TO RADICAL, that can be done for them.

      I have shot my AR out to 400M with top end peeps! I want to try that TRITIUM front post next; if it works as well as on my M1A1 590 (scattergun) I will be one happy camper. I have been using a VORTEX Strikefire 3X in low light conditions so having my MagPul BUIS (Back Up Sight System) with a front TRITIUM Post I’ll fill in a weakness in low light for the AR-15 and CAR-4.

      shootski


      • Shootski
        I faired away from open iron sights as I got older. As a kid that’s all I shot. Can I say I lived in the Stone age. I never even thought about a scope back then. It was all open sights.

        But as my eyes got older the scope was the easiest to shoot with. After all I was trying to enjoy shooting. So the scope made that happen.

        And I always liked dot sights. But never really tryed peeps like we are talking about today. And I spoiled myself with the wide feild of veiw and the fast sighting dot sights. They was easy too.

        But now I see that peeps are easier to be percise when shooting and at the same time easy to use.

        What I’m going after next is some long distance peep shooting. Like with my .25 Condor SS. It’s needeing only 3/4 mildot at 109 yards on 4 magnification. So it’s pretty flat shooting for a 34 grain .25 caliber air gun. But I think that would make a heck of a combination with peeps on it.


        • GF1,

          I’m curious. Had you never tried peeps before or were you using them wrong like I did at first? Trying to make the sight picture look like the illustrations.

          Half


          • Halfstep
            No peep sights. Only open conventional sights and scopes and red dots. Well and lasers too.

            I do know my dad used them in his Garand. But that was the ones that you could raise for long range shooting.

            That reminds me. He could hit a coffee can at a hundred yards with his Garand and the elevated open sights. And I do remember he had range marks up the sight like a feild target shooter does on a big side wheel scopes doe distances. Only his was hold overs that was marked on the sight for different distances.

            If explained that correct.


          • Oh and that was standing off hand. He was a much better shot than me. Until he stared getting older. And that did bother him that he couldn’t shoot as well as he did. But he still amazed me at how well he still could shoot.


      • Shootski,

        I have terrible floaters in my eyes and every doctor that I’ve asked about them says that there is nothing to be done.

        Your joke about PEEPS, the Easter candy, brought back a fond memory of when my grandson was little. One Easter we put purple PEEPs in his basket. He was maybe 4 years old and when he dug the package out of the fake grass he exclaimed “OOOHHH! Rhinoceroses!” Next Easter turn a package of purple PEEPs upside down and you will see what he saw.

        Half


        • Halfstep
          I’m going to bring something up about floaters that maybe you can relate to since you worked on stuff at your job and probably wore glasses at some point in time.

          If so have you ever got a dot of oil on your glasses. Then look in the light a certain way and see your floaters in that dot of oil.

          Seriously. I have. And I think that’s what the eye doctor sees when they look in your eyes with the light

          But that is what I can see in the opening of the peep as I close the opening of the sight hole. But it’s usually dark from the light being blocked.

          Ain’t it something bc what our eyes can do with light and all.


          • GF1,

            When I have talked to my doctors about getting them out they give me the impression that they are microscopic and just seem big to me because of the shadow that they cast on my retina.

            When I first got them I made a damned fool out of myself with some of my workmates. We were leaving work one summer morning and there was a big thunderstorm brewing with big billowing black and grey puffy storm clouds overlapping each other up in the sky. I looked up and thought I saw some kind of airship make an impossible maneuver and dart behind a cloud. Then it reemerged from that cloud and did a zig zag and went behind another cloud. I didn’t believe in UFOs then or now, but I couldn’t think of anything else that could explain what I was seeing and I started trying to get my co-workers to see it. I was like, “Wait, wait, THERE! Did you see it?? It went right behind there.” and so on like that. They thought I was nuts. After a few minutes I discovered that it was inside my eye and was flippin’ and floatin’ around every time I shifted my eye to a new location. Felt like some kinda igit and it took a long time to live that one down. It’s funny to me when I think back on it now. Must have been in my mid 20s when it happened.

            Half


            • Halfstep
              Yep that was a pretty darn good explanation of floaters.

              Depending on where I’m standing and how much light or sunshine there is. I can see my floaters real good.

              Definitely gets annoying at times.


        • Half,

          Do you see an opthomologist or an optometrist?
          The ones that are actually medical eye doctors, opthomologist, are the ones that MAY be able to help you. You also want a more newly minted one or one that also is involved with a teaching hospital or University. Some of the newest treatments work but only for certain conditions/causes.

          Wishing you luck to get rid or at least control them.

          shootski


          • Shootski,

            I have been seeing an optometrist for probably the last 10 or 12 years. It was 2 different ophthalmologists that I asked about the floaters. I don’t know if all of them are, but these two were surgeons. Neither were newly minted or involved with a teaching hospital. I’ve had my floaters for so long that I hardly notice then most of the time and they don’t impair my vision so I’m not too worried about them. Thanks for the advice though. I may do some research just to see what’s available now days.

            Half


            • Half,

              Since your’s (floaters) are still ignorable you don’t need what a friend of mine had done. His were so bad he was going to be grounded, too soon to retire (airline pilot) and out of work! He got a Vitrectomy; they basically evacuated the fluid in his eyeball and replaced it with a ultra pure saline solution. He flew on to retirement with no further problems. Apparently current research is being done with LASER technology but the jury is not in on efficacy.

              shootski


  11. B.B.,

    When my eyes started to get too old even for a conventional aperture, I purchased one for my FWB 601 with adjustable magnification. It helps quite a bit, even though it provides only up to 1.5X. I also purchased an “Eagle Eye” magnifying clear screw-on cap for the front site of my 300s (meant to be used with a non-magnifying front aperture) that magnifies the front post (or clear insert’s hole) by 1.5X.

    Either helps a great deal, but I found that by using both and adjusting the rear aperture’s magnification, I essentially have a monocular with somewhere around 2X. I cannot get a full 2.25X because of the necessity of adjusting the focus with the rear magnification.

    With my 300s and 150 I can use scopes as they are easy to scope, but without a permanent modification to the “trapdoor” on the 601, scopes are not an option.

    Just don’t try to use any of these at a competition!

    Michael


    • Michael
      I’m glad you brought that up. I have been reading about exactly those things.

      Alot of people say the front magnification works better than rear magnification. I don’t think I remember anyone saying they used both front and rear magnification with their peeps.

      That’s something I would be interested in too. For one thing I pest. And I did already get a starling. And at 35 yards I could definitely get the front dot size I chose right on target. But it seemed to make the bird and surroundings I could see in the peep seem small.

      So the magnification front and or rear peep set up interests me. Can you post more info?


      • Gunfun1,

        Refracting telescopes have two lenses, of course, and the distance between them is adjusted to put the image into focus. So I thought what they hey, can’t hurt to try BOTH devices to see what happens. It turned out that just backing off on the magnification on the aperture just slightly put everything (front sight AND target at 10M) in nice sharpness.

        The front one, called an Eagle Eye, usually sells for about $30-$40 and I see them used occasionally. Jim E. often has a few for sale and I bought mine from him. Those magnify the front sight post (or clear aperture) by 1.5.

        Aperture sights for the rear are available with a fixed aperture and magnification and both adjustable aperture and magnification. These are pricey. I got lucky and found a vintage fixed aperture with 1.5X magnification on ePay for $90 with free shipping. I think it’s a Gehmann, but I haven’t looked at the markings in a while.

        My guess is that my little semi-homebrew refracting telescope provides about 2X, although if it had focused perfectly to begin with it would have been 2.25X.

        I love it when little work-arounds actually work.

        Michael


        • Michael
          Ok now here’s the next big question.

          Since you made a small scope. Have you tryed any longer distances with your setup?

          And can you still focus with the peep like so with a adjustable rear peep?

          Do you get true vision all the way out to the edges of your sight picture or does it start distorting the farther from center?


          • Gunfun1,

            The farthest I’ve ever shot my target FWBs is in my backyard at 22 yards. As for focusing, my eye seems to do allthat is necessary. Perhaps a slight adjustment of the aperture end. I never really paid much attention. I just looked through it and shot the ice cube! :^)

            Michael


  12. And here is two pictures looking through my peep sight.

    The first is with the opening adjusted smaller. The second will be with it adjusted bigger.

    And mind you it was hard with my phone to get the front centered to the rear peep opening. I’m taking the picture by hand with no support.




        • Do you see how big the dot looks on the paper target. And that’s a small, small dot if you have the globe insert in your hand and look at the dot.

          The front post almost needs to be the point of a needle. That’s what I might do next to one of the inserts and see if I can get some real accurate sighting out at 50 yards.


          • GF1

            Those are GREAT pics.

            I see what you mean about the size of the bead on the post. I always thought that there may be a limit to how far and to what degree of precision you can get from this type sight. Just like longer shots with a scope require a thinner reticle, otherwise it covers up the target. They can only make wire type reticles so thin, after that point they become too fragile to be practical. I think spider web was used at some early point in scope development but etched glass reticles are the answer for thin, thin reticles today, if I’m not mistaken.

            All I know is that before it’s over you are gonna be able to tell us just how far this arrangement can be stretched. 🙂

            Half


            • Halfstep
              I’m getting ready to do some peeps up on my Condor SS. That will definitely get me going.

              I for sure got to see what 100 yards is like with a peep.


  13. Very nice article today and lot’s of good comments and pictures. From what I gather, peeps were the scope of the day back when opens were most common. Now with scopes being common, it would seem that peeps would take a back seat when it comes to precise aiming and clarity of target picture. I really do not think that peeps could compare to scopes beyond 30 yards.

    I can however see the benefit of peeps (as opposed) to opens for target shooting at 25 yards and under. Not to mention a whole lot less weight as opposed to a scope.

    They are very interesting with all of the types, filters, magnifications front and rear, insert options, etc., etc…


    • Chris
      Oh I knew you was going to say something like that.

      Here I go again. You got to try it before you say it.

      What I’m gathering from your comment is you don’t have faith in your eyes and brain. Try the peeps out at 50 yards and see what happens.

      Remember when I told you way back about pushing it out to 50 yards. Then a 100 yards. And after that 50 yards and in was nothing.

      Well the peeps will be the same. Don’t know if you caught it. But my peep sight is very easy to shoot accurately. It does better than the dot sight and open sights. And pretty much just as well as a scope out to 35 yards.

      And I’m serious. Not trying to convince you or say your wrong. But I think you will be in for a surprise if you finally try a peep out at distance with a good gun.

      You got to shoot and see. I know you will be surprised


      • GF1,

        Well, it will be interesting to see what you come up with at 100 with the Condor. No doubt you have a very good idea of what it will do scoped at your usual 6 magnification.


        • Chris
          Try 4 magnification. That’s what I have been shooting at for a long time.

          It gives you holds that are closer to our pen or dot sights. And peros work the same as open or dot sights.

          There is less compensation involved.

          I’m telling ya. Once you get yourself into low magnification or no magnification shooting you will grow tremendously in your shooting abilities.

          Especially with your eye sight from what I gather. My eyes seem alot worse than yours by what you say about yours. I got all kinds of stuff that gets in the way of my eyes.


  14. Geo,

    I ran the Ccleaner (piroform {dot} com) and the Malewarebytes at same name dot com. The first one removed a bunch of stuff and the second found nothing. There was a few moments that I had to click this thing or that thing, but overall, it was easy to use. Both seemed to want to sell you an upgrade?, but there was free downloads and use for both as you stated.

    I can not say that it improved anything. For what I do, the computer runs fine. It is always nice to do some extra security steps though.

    Thank you,…. Chris


    • Hi Chris,

      Good for you…getting it done. Yes, the purpose of giving away free (nothing really is free) software is to attempt to sell a paid version with bells and whistles. The good news is that the free versions work perfectly fine and accomplish everything the paid versions do. The only thing is, YOU have to initiate the scans yourself. I’ve used those programs myself for years and they are the first tools I use when diagnosing computer problems. If you laptop’s speed is still sluggish I would suggest delving into the Ccleaner program a little more and use one of the tools that will disable programs starting up and running in the background. There’s really only a few things that will help with speeding up a system. Sometimes more RAM (random access memory) needs to be added. That’s a very easy fix on a laptop. Older laptops didn’t come with enough memory in them. Also, the Check Disk feature built into Windows can can fix hard disk corruption which can also slow a system down. Hang in there… the Ccleaner is an excellent maintenance tool though.

      Geo


      • Geo,

        I have a Dell desktop computer that I purchased through a local computer SECURITY specialist. It runs Win 7 Pro and he has it set up to use Microsoft Security Essentials as the “anti-virus and other bad stuff” program. He told us that using Chrome instead of IE and always updating Java and a few other commonly attacked programs as soon as asked to allow it, along with leaving our computer and modem and router always on would provide all the security that any program could provide, regardless of what they may claim. I have had over 4 years of absolutely trouble free operation from this computer by following his advice. That is a real record for us.

        Half


        • Half,

          That’s great advice. I run Windows 7 Home Premium with Microsoft Essentials and have had no serious malware or viruses in several years…all without paying protection money. JAVA is an obsolete programming language and it has been suggested to uninstall it from you system. I uninstalled JAVA but then later discovered that Chairgun needs it to run so I had to reinstall it…just make sure to keep it updated as suggested. Also, if you use Adobe Acrobat to open PDF files make sure to keep that program updated too. I haven’t used IE for years. I use Firefox because I like the many options for plug-ins and extensions. I do not shut my computer, modem, or router off unless I am going to be away from home on vacation or something. Most problems occur when the power is switched off and then back on with electronics. It’s still good to keep your system clean of junkware and to run a manual scan occasionally with an anti-malware program such as Malwarebytes. No antivirus or anti-malware program will detect everything 100%…most are only 80% to 90% effective.
          You are doing a good job protecting you system though.

          Oh BTW, I have seen some badly infected computers caused by letting the grand kids play games on them. There is one in particular that I have to clean every few months. It’s best to keep your main computer that you do work on from having games loaded on it.



  15. GF1,

    Check out my post to Bengi Don a number of posts up about Bloop Tubes!

    I think you will like the concept!

    Maybe B.B. can work them into Part 3, 4, or 5 of the Peep Series.

    shootski



    • Shootski
      Now I see where your going with the bloop tube. It’s a harmonics stabilizer. Nothing to do with peeps.

      It makes me wonder why they don’t call it a silencer.

      I guess it don’t silence. So basically it’s a hollow muzzle brake that you can slide forward or backwards.

      And no Gunfun1 is not worried about getting one.


      • GF1,

        I saw the Air Venturi barrel adapter to dovetail was for a larger O.D. barrel but I also think I saw that it came with some sleeves. Now I dont find the reference to sleeves. Maybe it was anotyer adapter I was looking at.

        Too bad they are all proprietary no standardization as B.B. noted on the peeps and globe sights. It takes a lot of investigating.

        Don


        • Don
          When you posted that link the other day I didn’t pay attention if it came with different sleeves or bushings. But I do remember suggesting sleeves.

          And yep it always seem that there is some glitch that hangs you up when you try to get something bc accomplished.

          I was getting discouraged when I was trying to find the thread sizes to adapt the Gehmann adjustable peep to my Williams sight I bought from PA.

          But definitely glad I kept poking at it and got the info I was after. I do enjoy the peep on my HW30s.


  16. B.B. and everyone,

    Kinda off topic

    Just wanted to thank B.B. and all of you posters for the excellent job that you all do, everyone has opinions and suggestions, this is really a great blog and it makes my day just to stand by and read B.B.’s blog and all the comments.

    I just wanted to make a hats off thanks to Pyramyd Air, I made an order and messed it up royally, a phone call to PA and a couple of emails later it was all sorted, a special thanks to Erika who handled the issues and got everything right.

    Just said all that to say this, customer service is where Pyramyd Air shines.

    Mike


  17. And here’s something else for ya all.

    Suns been down for a bit now. I opened the peep diameter adjustment all the way up so the most light can show. I’m hitting my tin can hanging targets no problem.

    It’s pretty dark now. I’m going to see what happens next.


    • Well here’s what happened next when it got dark.

      But first I use to do night shooting with my airguns. By that I guess I should say night plinking. I would put out a silver colored can at 50 or so yards and shoot at it. Moon light was it. I would look for the shine of the can for my aim point. And that was scoped. As long as I had some kind of light I could see the can. And hit.

      Once it got dark now. With the peeps I couldn’t pick up on the cans. I’m thinking the scope also magnified the light to a extent that it helped to see the cans.

      So as it goes. What works good for one thing might not work good for another. But all in all I think the peeps do good.

      And I’m going to end this again with is there anyone out there that can share their exsperiance with long range peep sight shooting? I would like to know what they think about it. Was it hard to do? Or maybe easier then they imagined? Was it hard to see or not?

      Even if you done 100 yard shooting with firearms and peeps I would like to know about it.



  18. BB
    This topic has really been an eye opener. I hadn’t heard the tip of “keeping both eyes open” with a peep before.
    My only concern is that as I get older I have a harder time shooting open sights without my glasses. So my problem is do I use glasses so I can see the sights and have the target be fuzzy or skip the glasses and have a sharp target but then the sights are out of focus. Pistols aren’t that bad cause it’s at arms length which helps, but rifles are closer to your eyes which makes the problem worse. I’m sorta in a half way point here. Anyone else have this issue?
    Thanks
    Ray



      • Thanks BB
        I’ve been reading for a while now.
        But just recently decided to register so I could post.
        Looking forward to more interesting articles from you sir!
        Ray


    • Ray
      I do have the focus problem too with open sights. I do wear glasses and have astigmatism and can’t see up close anymore so my glasses are bifocals. But I wear my prescription glasses all the time. Even when I shoot no matter what type of sights I use. Like open sights, scopes or red dot sights. And now the peep sights. Oh and I keep both eyes open when I shoot any type of sights. But I do have to squint to focus with open sights.

      I got the Gehmann adjustable peep. And all I can say is I totally like the adjustable opening it has that controls the diameter you look through. Definitely allows me to keep everything in focus. And the ability to brighten up the target.

      I think you would like a peep sight if you try it. I waited a long time to try it but glad I did.


      • Yes sir
        I’ve got a Benji 392 and I’m seriously thinking about taking off the scope and putting a peep on it.
        It sure would make it easier to pump 🙂
        Thanks
        Ray


        • Ray
          Now that would be a nice combination on the 392. I have been wanting to get another one. I would for sure like one with a peep sight.

          So I guess that would mean you would put the rear peep sight right on your scope mount and use the 392 front post.


          • I guess so Gun.
            I could take the BE1 mount off and use the factory location for mounting a peep. But If I do that I would be limited to the Williams peep that fits the 392 by using that threaded hole on the left side of the breech I’m thinking. One of those fancy peeps with the large adjustment wheels might be nice. But the Williams peep would get the job done and not be so obtrusive and stuck up in the way. Which might be a good thing while in the squirrel woods.
            Ray


            • Ray
              So you do squirrel too. So that is something I’m wondering about also with peep sights since I haven’t tryed them yet pesting or hunting.

              I do know I had a harder time picking up on a starling with my peep on my HW30s. With the open sights and a dot sight I can locate them quicker and easier than with the peep. But the peep does seem to be more accurate than the open sights and the dot sights though.

              I haven’t tryed to see if I can pick up on a squirrel or bird in a tree yet with the peep sight. I only have sighted the starling with the peep sight out in open cut grass.

              So that is something I need to check out to. And also it’s darker once you get in the woods. So I’m curious to see how that goes.


              • Those darn starlings won’t stop moving long enough to get a bead on them. I shot one today off from my woodpecker feeder. I think that makes about 10 this spring so far. Oh, and I saw a gopher out in the yard moving in the grass. He’s gone to gopher heaven. I leave the chippies alone but the gophers dig big holes in my yard so they have to go.

                About the only way I can get the starlings is to wait in my garage for them to land on my feeders. If I see them out the living room window and grab my Urban, they’re gone by the time I get out where I can shoot them. They kind of hit and run on the feeder. I will say that once I get a pest in the Urban’s crosshairs, he’s pretty much toast. Not many misses with the Urban verses the Diana 34.


                • Geo
                  That is exactly the problem I had with the starling. I had a hard time getting a sight picture on it cause it kept moving with the peep sight.

                  With a scope or open sights or a dot sight I have that big open field of view. So for pesting I have to say I like the scope, red dot or open sights the best.

                  But for plinking the peep works great. Oh and definitely would not be able to use the peep on something like the WildFire when I’m trying to move around fast to get in the target and shoot and move on to the next target shot.

                  But I’m still impressed how well the peep allows me to focus better than with open sights. I’m definitely Happy with the peeps for how I’ll use them.


                • Geo,

                  🙂 Wow,… you are really getting some good (err,… great) results. Yup,… the “word” is out in the bird neighborhood! If you want to eat,.. you had better get in and out quick! 😉

                  Gopher?,… Is that the same as a ground hog? A (big) ground hog in my neck of the woods would be 10# plus. Them suckers CAN DIG!


                  • Chris,

                    Yup, the Urban is deadly accurate. I’ve never dispatched as many pests as I have since I gotten the Urban. I have NO sparrows harassing the bluebirds this spring either. I shot one earlier this spring off of one of the nesting boxes at 35 yards. The others must have spread the word…do not perch on the bluebird nesting boxes!

                    No, a gopher is very similar to a chipmunk. The gopher is a little bigger and has spots as well as stripes on it’s back. They dig holes and make tunnels in the yard.

                    We do have ground hogs, also known as woodchucks, here in Michigan. Some get much bigger than 10# though. They dig underneath buildings and cause damage to foundations. They are also a menace in a vegetable garden. They will go down a row of tomato plants and take one bite out of each tomato. I saw one last summer go under my lawn barn. I got my old Daisy BB gun out and shot under the barn to drive him out. When he came back across the yard I nailed him with my Diana 34. A huge vulture flew down and landed on one of the bluebird nesting boxes and just watched the woodchuck. I finally took the woodchuck out and put him in the field so the vulture could have his lunch.


          • GF1,

            I just put one on my 392. It was recommended to me by TheDaveMyster, I think. It is a Williams and it bolts to some tapped holes that are already on the gun from the factory. No scope adapters required. Easy Peasy.

            Half


    • Ray1377,

      If you will own up to your pun (This topic has really been an eye opener) I will give you my take on the issue of glasses. 🙂

      I have basically 20/20 vision now after RK and Lasik surgery but I have to wear glasses to read and for close work. Until I retired a couple years ago I had to wear safety glasses at work and I was at work a lot, so I had my company provided safety glasses fitted with a bifocal for reading and safety glass for the larger lens. There was a bit of a contour put in the larger lenses to take care of a little astigmatism, but they were mostly plain glass. My “street” glasses got made the same way. As the magnification on my reading lenses crept up over the years it got harder to use open sights. What I do now is wear a pair of cheap drugstore “cheaters” when I shoot with iron sights. They were the lightest wire, half-framed ones I could find. My regular glasses are about +3.5 diopter, but the ones I bought for shooting are closer to +1.25 – 1.50. They really help make the front sight sharper and because they are not too strong they don’t make the target as blurry as my true prescription does. It works real well for me and I suggested this to BB and I think he has just been wearing his regular reading glasses to shoot with. His prescription may be lower than mine.

      Because my large lenses are basically clear glass I can just put my super light cheaters on over the top of my regular glasses. They rest on top of the frames, providing a weak bifocal at the top of my glasses, where it is easy to look through them when shooting. If you find that the reading lenses work for you, you can have “occupational” lenses ground for your glasses. The have a bifocal at the top and bottom of your main lens so you can see close up looking upwards. If JUST need reading glasses, you will probably want to make the weak reading glasses the type that uses a full frame. Wearing half frames in the conventional manner will not allow you to look through them at the sight that is straight out in front of you. I used half frames because of the way I was able to drop them over my regular glasses. Shooting in bright light will cause you pupils to contract and that will make your depth of field better, as well.

      I apparently no longer have the ability to give short answers so sorry about that. Now “fess up about the pun.

      Half


      • Half
        I must admit, I didn’t really see the “pun” in that until after I had already posted it and went back later to check for replies. Then I noticed how it sounded. Funny none the less 🙂
        I also hate getting older if for no other reason than eyesight and hearing going south.
        Thanks
        Ray


  19. BB

    You mention that peep sights don’t work on handguns because the eye is too far away from the peep. I get that quick focus and target acquisition don’t apply h


  20. BB

    Sorry my clumsy fingers somehow sent before intended. I will try again.

    You mention that peep sights don’t work on handguns. The eye is too far away for quick focus and target acquisition. I get that. I have a Williams peep mounted on a 1377 pitol without the stock option. I shot it again today and notice a distinct improvement on front sight focus looking through the peep vs not looking through the peep. Maybe this is my old eyes only but peeps do help me on pistols as well as on rifles.

    Love this report. So much good information.

    Decksniper


    • Decksniper
      I guess I should stop saying I never tryed peeps before. The reason being is that I have tryed the 1377 peep also. And yep it works. It’s that I was into scope shooting for a long time already when I tryed it. So it didn’t interest me at the time.

      Then I started shooting open sights again with my 1077 for a while then with my HW30s that I kept forcing myself to shoot open sights. I kept wanting to scope it. But also I wanted to keep open sight shooting. So I been doing good at staying open sight with the HW30s. Plus I have got back to shooting open sights good again.

      But now with the peep on the HW30s it’s so simple to get focused by a turn of the peep opening adjustment. But I think peeps would be real nice on a pistol like the 1377.


    • Decksniper,

      I recently saw a 2011 video on Air Gun Reporter where Paul reviewed Crosman’s 2240. During the video he shot with the peep sight and mentioned that he shoots it more accurately that way. It’s what prompted me to ask BB about the role peeps play in handgun shooting back in Part 1.

      Half


  21. Well since I’m liking the peep sight on my HW30s so much I decided to take the scope off of my FWB 300 and put the peep sights on it today.

    It’s a very accurate gun out at 50 yards. So I want to compare how the peeps do to the scope. Here is the front sight insert I’m going to try in it. Which is the other sight insert I wanted to try in the HW30s front sight. I’ll comment later how it does.


    • Here is the 50 yard target from my FWB 300 with the peep sight.

      Not bad but definitely not as good as when it’s scoped. It will get for the most part around a .650″ center to center group scoped.

      But I’m thinking the 1-1/16″ group with the peep sight is better than what I could do with open sights. I don’t have a open sight set up for it so I can’t compare.

      But it’s good enough for plinking which really what I do with it most shooting spinners and cans and such. So definitely going to keep it this way for now.



        • Chris
          I’m guessing the group will get bigger if I take the scope off and put peeps on my Condor SS. How much bigger is the next question. If it gets around 1-1/2 to 2″ group’s I will be happy. I think that would be considered good at a hundred yards.


          • GF1,

            With peeps and the reduced magnification,.. none,.. 1 1/2″ ~ 2″ would be VERY good in my book.

            My take away is that they would be acceptable for a powder burner rifle at 100 yards. I am not so sure that a person could take the ideal “heart/lung” shot on a Deer,… but with practice I think that they could at least hit the Deer mid-mass.

            The barrel tuner were interesting. I looked a few articles over this AM kind of (quick). I have them saved to favorites. From what I gathered, a (few) degrees of rotation made quite a bit of difference. Also, from what I gathered,… as the turn increased,… the accuracy would oscillate in a wave pattern. Good, better, (best), better, good (repeat)


            • Chris
              That’s the thing with the peep sights or even red or green dot sights. I always aim center mass.

              If im out farther or in farther than my sight in distance I will aim a little higher or a little lower.

              What I like about open sights and dot sights and now the peep sights. Is if I’m shooting in a certian range of distance say 15-50 yards I typically don’t have to worry about hold over or under. I can aim center mass and either hit on center at sight in distance or a little high or low at closer or farther distances than what I sighted in.

              It makes it very easy to hit a given target at varied distances without worrying if I got my hold over or under right. It’s actually pretty cool how it works out.


      • Gunfun1

        I can’t mount a front sight on my tuned up FWB 300S so must stay with scope. You have answered my curiosity today about scope vs peep. This FWB is a sceamer for accuracy.

        What does the target look like in the insert circle? Some folks want the target to show only a tiny bit of light around the bull for most precise sight picture? I’m not one of them. My eyes seem to automatically center the bull in insert circle? I have tested this and do as well either way.

        Just curious and thanks for your replies.

        Decksniper



          • GF1,

            Cool. Nice illustration. That is the way my 499 looks like at 24′ and the binder stickers. I did reduce the ring sight to get it that way though. If you can see that,… that is as close to a no miss situation that you can get!

            So,… since you are now “into” peeps,… when you getting a 499? Stupid accurate. Not to mention I have a mod tip getting for another 150 fps for those times when you want to reach “out there”. 😉


            • Decksniper
              Yep you got it about the wiggle. That’s why I like a red or green dot sight too. Well even open sights with the wiggle thing.

              And did you mean Gunfun1 one.


            • Chris
              Thanks about the illustration.

              I ya know. I don’t really know why I haven’t got a 499 yet.

              I got so many wants I think is the problem and others just always override a other one.

              Maybe I should make a list and when u win the lottery I’ll go through it get all of them I want. 🙂



  22. BB

    Yep, thats the picture. Your drawing should convince anyone who wonders why peeps make accurate shooters. Shoot and follow through looking at that sight picture. Also the gun doesn’t seem to wiggle like it does with high magnification scopes which is only mental but still is real.

    Decksniper


  23. Wasn’t liking the front insert I had in the FWB 300. It was blocking out too much field of view making it hard to pick up on targets.

    So here is the one I ended up using. Definitely opened up my sight view.

    I’ll post a target in a minute.


    • Here is the target at 50 yards. This time a 3 mph steady head wind. Definitely had more veiw of the target. And a bit better group than yesterday. Which is probably due to the wind being better.

      This time the group is 1″ center to center compared to yesterday’s with a 1-1/16″ group. But look at those 5 shots that made a round one hole group. I’m thinking if I take more time with my shots I can get under a inch.

      Anyway figured I would post the results.



      • GF1

        With the target you have pictured, good shootin’ by the way, how wide does that post seem under that big dot? If that makes any sense. Does the ball and post seem the same size or does one of them appear bigger than the other and by how much? I’m thinking that having your target the perfect size might help getting under 1″.

        Half


        • Halfstep
          The picture above with the round sight was sized the best of these two front inserts I tryed.

          The one I have in it now that is the post sight was easy to line up too. The circle I drew on the paper to shoot at was a little bigger than the diameter of the post. So I just sat the circle on top of the post and had the circle over hang equally on each side of the post the best I could.

          The post insert I like the best because it is still easy to line up and how much of the target area that can be seen.

          And what is happening is with whatever sight I use my eyes automatically want to center the target to the sight insert. A red or green dot sight works the same. A open post and notch sight is different. You have to line the front post up with the rear notch and then the target. So to me the red or green dot sight and the peep sights are the easiest to use because of how they naturally make you center the sight.



            • Halfstep
              What I think helps me a lot is from the machine shop work I have done over all the years. Every day I have to make sure a chamfer is lined up true all the way around to a diameter. And also make sure one hole is lined up true to another on parts that are being machines.

              So I think my eyes have become accustomed to centering things quickly. So right now it don’t seem to bother me to much with target sizing.

              That’s something more I will try when I shoot out at a 100 yards. The target sizing. Oh and yes I did do that when me and Chris did a little 100 yard contest we did. I made a round circle on a piece of paper that matched up with my mildot of my scope. But on the other hand wonder what would of happened if I had a different reticle in my scope too. I think the big thing is how you train your eyes.


              • GF1

                As a tradesman for many years I’ve picked up that skill too. I can estimate small lengths pretty accurately and tell when something is plumb or square. I divide and subdivide lengths of things without measuring. Funny what years of conditioning can cause to eventually come natural.

                Half


                • Halfstep
                  You got it. That’s exactly what I mean.

                  What use to always get me is we had a optical comparitor at work that we measured things with. For some reason my measurements always came up true to other measuring devices. Other people those measurements wouldn’t be a close as mine. But that was always said about comparitors.

                  I think it was because I could get the places I wanted to measure focused better than the other people. Plus I was able to pick up on the true points I wanted to measure.

                  I think eye training is a big deal when it comes to shooting too.


              • GF1

                I bought a Colt Python in the BB/Pellet polymer configuration when Pyramyd had their sale the other day. I wanted to let you know that when the gun was getting 420 fps with steel BBs, switching to those plastic Blaster BBs raised the velocity to 620 fps. The bad news is that it also doubled the size of the 20 shot group I got with Daisy BBs at 12 yards. The Daisy BBs went 2 1/8″ and the Blasters went almost 4 1/2″.

                I also wanted to add to the discussion we were having the other day about POI shifting around with different pellets. I fired a bunch of different pellets through this gun with the barrel clamped in my Jaw Horse and the point of impact moved around to all points of the compass as I change pellets. The entire barrel was clamped so I know harmonics didn’t have anything to do with it. In the extreme, one brand of pellet grouped 3 inches to the left of where another pellet grouped. And that was just 12 yards.


                • Halfstep
                  The Colt Python I got doesn’t shoot bb’s well either. And that’s with the plastic clips that are supposed to be used with bb’s. The metal clips I have are bigger diameter holes than the bb clips. The bb’s fall right through the metal clips.

                  But it does shoot pellets good. And mine does have the rifled barrel. Does yours? The bb only version is suppose to be smooth bore.

                  And I’m still thinking like we talked before that the fit of the pellet and even probably design of the pellet has something to do with pellet shift.


                  • GF1.

                    I actually thought 2 1/8″ for 20 shots at 12 yards was pretty accurate for a BB gun. I have 2 of the BB only guns and they don’t shoot that well.

                    I think we are talking about the same gun. My new one is rifled. What I like about these guns is that they have adjustable sights. I don’t see why they can’t be made on the blowback semi-autos. I would definitely pay a little more to have them. These are simple and they work great. The trigger is really good too. I have shot some double action firearms that could have used this trigger. I wanted the short barreled version but they were back ordered and I didn’t want to wait for my other stuff to ship until the gun shipped. I will most likely get one if they have another sale soon.

                    I saw your request to Chris U about the 3″ target so I cut one out real quick and covered it with Hot Pink Duck Tape and stuck it on a bamboo skewer at 100 yards and took a peek (peep) at it with my Williams sight. If I wear my weak cheaters I can’t see it. It just blurs out to nothing. Without them, since I was in bright sunlight, I could do a fair job of focusing the front sight and the target but the target was about 1/3 of the diameter of the post. I personally would need a 8″- 9″ target at that distance. Your blade may be thinner than the one on my 392 and you have that adjustable aperture so you may be able to get by with a smaller target than me, but I’m betting it will have to be bigger than 3″.

                    Hope that tells you what you needed.

                    Half


                    • Halfstep
                      Thanks for trying the target out at a 100 yards to see how big it appears in the sight I do believe I will need bigger than 3 inches also. And when I was looking out in the field today with my HW30s that has the adjustable peep I could dail in my focus better than the fixed peep on the FWB 300. But I could see with both good. And that was with my normal everyday prescription glasses. And that was a 6″ long corn stalk laying on the ground I was looking at. And it was in the bright sunshine.

                      And I have not any kind of good results with bb’s in my Python.

                      But here is the one I have. And that makes me ask what do you mean about blow back. I don’t think I recall seeing any pellet or bb revolver having blow back. Only pistols with the slide action.



                  • GF1,

                    That’s the gun I have. I’ve been shooting Vienna Sausage cans today at about 19 yards with Crosman Precision Wadcutters and Hunting Pointed pellets. They come pretty cheap in the 1250 count milk cartons.

                    I think I said semi auto blow back guns. The kind that look and operate like real guns with drop mags and all that. They are great fun but most of them do not have adjustable sights and they seldom shoot where the fixed sights point, so you have to get a crappy sight picture holding high or low or left or right. That is especially tough for me to do when the blow back makes me have to reacquire the sight picture after each shot. The sights on these Pythons would work fine and I can’t imagine that they would cost that much to add, is all I was sayin’. They have ’em on the Browning Buckmark spring gun and it’s still a very cheap gun.

                    Half


                    • Halfstep
                      My Python shoots Daisy pointed as well as Daisy wadcutters good. They cost less than the Crosman pellets your talking about.

                      Oh and yes it shoots my favorite .177 caliber well. The JSB 10.34’s.

                      And yes I got a good blow back bb gun like your talking. And that’s the whole thing about a blow back gun be it pellet, bb or airsoft. The blow back is there to simulate a fire arm the best it can.

                      My issc blow back pistol simulates that very good. That’s the whole point is to practice with out the cost of firearm ammo.



                  • GF1′

                    I just checked and the black part of a 100 yard rifle target is about 7.2 inches in diameter. I guess that will line up with some kind of circlet front sight made for shooting at that distance.

                    Half


                    • Halfstep
                      Yep probably so on lining up.

                      Hmm but makes me wonder if we have to great of expectations for air guns at a 100 yards when you tell me a firearm target for a 100 yards is 7.2 inches.

                      I think I will get that out of my mind. That’s a perfect way to drop a person’s confidence when shooting.

                      Really 7.2″ target at 100 yards for firearms. I do hope that they can hit tat with a scope.

                      Or do they need something that big of diameter to hit with open type sights?



                    • Halfstep
                      Well I’m soon to find out with peep sights pretty soon.

                      I’m almost willing to say bigger is better in this case.

                      Yo definitely got to see what your shooting at to hit good.


    • GF1,

      I am very surprised that you have not tried a piece of clear plastic with a hole poked/drilled in it. Surely you have something laying around? Bubble pack plastic would seem to be about ideal.


      • Chris
        Actually I do have something that might work. I got a package of cleaning pellets that I was using that time for the air shot gun stuff I was messing with. It’s pretty thin.

        I just held it in place to see if it was transparent still. And I could see right through it. So that’s a go. Now I need to cut out a circle disc and drill a clean hole through it.

        Thanks for the idea. I guess I wasn’t thinking about it yet. Had the other stuff still in my mind trying groups and different front sight inserts.




          • Chris
            I just cut the round insert out and put it in the globe front sight. No hole yet in the center.

            When I looked through the peep it was a foggy kind of white color. In other words it was like blind spot when I placed it over a can target or my target paper. In other words I couldn’t see through it. It was opaque.

            So I’m thinking to see through the disc it may need to be glass. Like a lens. Or maybe Plexi glass. Like eye glasses are made out of.

            I need to look into that more.

            But like we was talking above about my Condor SS front sight for a peep setup. The front AirForce sight comes with the clear insert or inserts. So I’ll see how that goes when I get them. And I’m going to check for other clear inserts or even lenses. Come to think about it I might go a front magnified lens for the Condor SS since the plan is to shoot long distance.


            • GF1,

              I (just) did some looking through a single of layer UTG scope box plastic and the picture was nice, even at arms length looking out the window. So yea,.. you may have to play around a bit to see what material will work best. Glass would be best,… but that is a bit tough to do home made.


            • Gunfun1

              I’m looking forward to your 100 yard peep/globe vs scope accuracy comparison with either your Condor SS or FWB 300. This is after you have time to get the front to suit your eyes.

              Enjoy the holiday!

              Decksniper


              • Decksniper
                I will sure let you know how it goes.

                I will probably try the Condor SS just because it shoots pretty flat. Hopefully with the adjustability of the front sight on elevation that AirForce makes I should be able to set the sight up with no hold over. That might take some time to do but I think that would be more accurate than trying to do a hold over exactly the same every shot.

                I’ll probably shoot that way some then look into some kind of magnification on the front sight.

                Should be fun though. And I hope I can find something reasonably priced when I start looking for a front magnification lens. I’m sure not spending $400 for something like that one guy did in that link I gave.


  24. Siraniko
    No place to reply to your comment with the link about making a front sight insert to work with the rear peep sight.

    Good article. What I liked is he mentioned acrylic would probably work the best for optical clearity.

    And I could very well make them at work. And you know I bet Jerry could fall right into making these inserts from his exsperiance with the pellet gages.


    • Siraniko
      And I forgot to say. I’m after clearity and field of view at the target.

      Even with a acrylic insert I don’t believe it would be as clear as a ground lens that has no magnification or some magnification at that.

      The only sharp focused image of the acrylic disc would be the opening in the center of the disc. I believe it would still be hard to locate a target fast. I think it would be faster with the ground magnified front lens. You could see the area of view out to the globe front sight or the opening of the rear peep sight.


      • Gunfun1,

        Probably best to experiment with what I think are called drugstore cheaters placed at the distance of the front sight and have those cut to fit the sight then have a dot or cross hair etched into them. Now you have recreated the effect of having tunnel sights.

        Siraniko


        • Siraniko
          With you bringing that up it seems that everyone wants the magnifying lens after the front sight. That way you don’t magnify the front sight insert. It stays the same size that way. But your target and field of view exspands.

          To me your front readers placed after the front sight would (maybe) tell you what magnification you need to shoot at a given distance.

          And if you do magnify the target view after the front insert you will for sure need the rear peep like the adjustable Gehmann sight I have that BB shows above.

          You will have to have some kind of way to adjust the focus of the front sight and target. Therefore the Gehmann adjustable peep.

          All in all good idea with the readers. But I’ll bet there will be sight distortion at the outer edge of the viewing picture with the readers in the globe area.


          • Gunfun1,

            Read the article you posted: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/iron-sights-explanation-of-lenses.3817462/ and they use the adjustable Gehman iris to bring things into focus. This works out at the target range, but for your purpose I think its not compatible. It will bring the target into focus allowing you a more accurate shot but at the cost of lowering your peripheral vision. I can’t think much of a way for anyone to have their cake and eat it too.

            Siraniko


            • Siraniko
              I know what you mean about the peripheral vision.

              And here is what I’m after. I basically want to see as much of the target and area around the target as I can in the globe area of the front sight.

              And the only reason I thought about a magnifying lens after the front sight was for the longer 100 yard shooting. Not to try to get more field of view but to bring the target in closer like a scope does. Well on the other hand if more field of view happens with magnification then great. If it don’t that’s ok too. And I actually would rather not use magnification. The whole idea is to hit targets with a peep sight and no magnification. To me that will make the group’s even more interesting that way.

              But I will have to say that looking through the peep sight on my HW30s and FWB 300 out at a 100 yards. That I don’t think I really need the magnification. But what I will need is a bright orange target that is sized accordingly to the front sight insert post. I’m think that will be the main trick to getting some accurate shots.


  25. And here is some views looking through the fixed peep on my FWB 300.

    This is about 500 yards. I circled red where I was aiming at with the peep sight.

    Then I’ll show a picture what it looks like looking through the peep.

    I think I could hit a buffalo if wanted from what I see. Of course if I had the right gun and bullet.



      • The reason I say zoom in this is what my camera seen.

        Is because my camera on my phone wouldn’t focus as good as I could see when looking through the peep.

        My eyes actually focused better through the peep than my phone camera could see. It was actually still looking with my normal vision when I looked through the peep at that distance.


  26. B.B.
    Yet another cool thing about peep sights: they don’t sit as high above the bore as a scope.
    Hence, with a plinker like the Sheridan .20 caliber Blue Streak or the .22 caliber HW30S,
    when they are sighted in for about 50 feet, they also hit point of aim on my indoor 5 meter range.
    I was just shooting them, which is why an indoor range is so convenient.
    And peep sights work much better at that range. =)
    take care,
    dave


  27. B.B.
    One last thought: you have done a great service to both the airgun community and the entire shooting community.
    Between your write ups, and all the comments, this blog on peep sights must be one of the most comprehensive ones on the internet. People will be looking it up, using it, and referring to it for year to come…way cool!

    And wishing a blessed Memorial Day to all!
    dave


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