by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Today’s report is a guest blog from reader Streetmusician. As far as I can remember he has never signed into the blog under that name, but that is his handle. He tells us how he got more velocity out of his Beeman P17.
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
This report is an important part of the Beeman P17 series, so I am linking it to the other reports we have done on the pistol. The first two parts tell you how to reseal the gun, so if today’s report becomes a project you want to do, you now have the rest of it.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Over to you, Streetmusician.
Beeman P17 valve modification
By Streetmusician
This report covers:
What others have tried
The original valve
The eureka moment!
The test
Assemble the valve
Assemble the pistol
Did it work?
For DIYers
Just recently I had occasion to renew all the seals on my Beeman P17 pistol, I have done some basic modifications to mine over the years, and, to get more power, I tried the method of putting a shim on the end of the piston.
What others have tried
I have seen blogs where guys have epoxied a gossamer-thin plastic shim on the end of the piston to gain 10-20 thousandths of an inch in length. There isn’t very much room in there. The space ahead of the piston when it’s fully forward measures 0.70 mm (0.0276-inches).
Filling that space increases the pistol’s compression. Anything much more than 20 thousandths and the piston bottoms out on the end of the chamber, preventing the gun from being fully cocked. The top strap will not fully close to lock and thus be in the firing position. In other words, the piston bottoms out before the gun closes.
In my experience shims break away after a brief period of time. And, if you use an “O” ring, it becomes shredded. Also, compressed air and grease are present in this tiny space, so anything you add does not seem to last very long.
To get a little extra power from the gun, the air needs to be compressed a little more. Anything that displaces the volume of air in the piston’s firing chamber, which is inside the firing valve, will do this. So — what if I shim inside the valve instead? It’s not going to be in the way of anything, like things put into the piston chamber are. I’ll show you.
The original valve
Looking at the original valve I wondered what I could use. It has to fit inside the pistol and not impede the operation of the valve.
The original Beeman P17 valve assembly.
Looking at this valve, I started thinking out of the box. Being an engineer in a past life, I had all sorts of bits and pieces lying around in the bottom of my toolboxes. I came across one — of all things a universal thermocouple for a gas boiler!
This thermocouple is universal to fit many gas boilers.
The eureka moment!
Hmm, I had a bit of a wonder if…. Ah HA! — a eureka moment! Now, what does a thing that senses a gas boiler flame have to do with a Beeman P17 air pistol? I just wanted the brass sleeve that comes with the kit. Just out of interest, Universal thermocouples are £ 3.60p to buy. [Ed. I looked them up for us here in the States and a Honywell universal thermocouple for the home is $7.89.]
Universal thermocouple brass sleeve.
The test
Now to put my theory to the test. Taking the valve apart (which I had to do anyway to replace the seals), I slid the brass sleeve over the spring. Plenty of clearance there. Next I took just the brass sleeve and pushed it into the valve port in the gun. Once again it was a loose clearance fit. Hmmm — “Made to measure,” as my dear departed father used to say.
Now, the original brass sleeve I salvaged from the thermocouple is too long, so I took the original pistol valve and compressed the spring until it fully bottomed all the spring coils. I reasoned that the valve stem cannot open any more than this. It’s at its physical limit. The space from the top of the original “O” ring brass spacer to the underside of the top flange of the valve stem measured 9.0 mm. To leave a little clearance I cut and filed the brass sleeve from the thermocouple to a length of 8.5 mm. I’m sure with closer attention to detail and with the right engineering tools this compression spacer could be made even better, but I’m just doing it as a quick fix.
There is the modified brass sleeve, next to the valve stem and spring in the disassembled P17 valve assembly.
Assemble the valve
Now, it is a straightforward process of assembling the P17 valve, with the new brass spacer in place.
Here is the P17 valve assembled, with the new spacer in place.
What is interesting to note, although it may not be too clear in the picture above (my apologies), is that the additional sleeve just rests against the top of the small brass “O” ring spacer and does not interfere with the spring’s function. Also, the length of the additional sleeve does not interfere with the valve fully opening when the trigger is pulled. And the clearance space between the inside of the valve transfer port and the outside of the brass spacer allows compressed air to flow directly to the tip of the valve when it opens at firing. If anything, the compressed airflow is smoother.
This shows a comparison of the P17 valve before (top) and after modification.
Assemble the pistol
Now it’s time to assemble the pistol. The new modified valve goes in exactly where the original valve came out.
The modified valve fits back in the valve chamber exactly how the original valve came out.
Did it work?
After putting the pistol back together, it was time to put my theory to the test. This pistol had been shooting at about 400 f.p.s. in original trim. Now, with the same pellet, it’s averaging about 460 f.p.s. The compressed air force in the pistol is higher. Also, the swept airflow seems to be far better — leaving the valve more efficiently when the gun is fired.
The cocking effort does increase in the last inch or two of compression. So, be prepared for that change.
For DIYers
What if the same thermocouples I used are not available? Well, the ID of the sleeve I used measures 6.35 mm (0.250-inches) and the OD measures 7.72 mm (0.303-inches). So, get a piece of tubing like that off the shelf.
Enjoy! Streetmusician.
Good mo4rning, everybody,
This is a fix I bet you never thought of! 🙂
B.B.
Would you happen to know the precise measurement to cut the sleeve down to or how would I know to get the exact clearance?
Thank you
Kountry83,
Welcome to the blog!
This is a guest blog published many months ago. If Streetmusician doesn’t see your question you can measure the image on your screen (of the whole valve stem) and interpolate from that.
BB
Streetmusician,
Well done! I am certain that before the end of the day quite a few P17 owners will be scrounging for tubing!
The question now becomes will this work with the P3? Or maybe even the HW75?
Streetmusician,
Nicely done. Way to go on “thinking outside the box” too! My brain works the same way once I evaluate something. Most times,…. most anything can be made better when we pick up on where the original manufacturer said,…. “good enough”. 😉
Chris
“Good enough”
Every time I hear a company saying something like that I think of the mid 1980’s Rolls Royce performance.
They listed Most of the performance criteria as “adequate”.
Ian
Streetmusician ,
Great idea ! This way there is nothing to come undone and still decreased the volume of the chamber. That is almost a 15% increase in velocity . Nice simple mod that someone can do when they are resealing the pistol .
Gene Salvino
You have a lot more experience in this arena than most of us, so what do you think of the long term reliability or possibility of damage to the pistol over long term?
I mean the p17 is built to a price point, and eventually the harder pumping effort may stress the design to a breaking point, or premature wear.
But it is a $30 pistol, I guess if you have to replace every year, it’s no big deal.
Ian
Ridgerunner ,
This will not work on the HW75 . It might be possible on the P3. The HW75 has quite a small chamber already and making it too small might impede on the valve opening. I have never been concerned about the 375 fps my HW75 shoots , I shoot it at 20 feet in the garage ! and at those feral soda cans and empty 12 gauge hulls . ( just the cheap ones not any AA winchesters )
Gene Salvino
Gene,
I was not sure how the HW75 is put together on the inside. I could see owning one of those. P3 or P17, nah.
Streetmusician,
Nice mod!!
It is amazing what one can find in the “good for something” junk box.
Hank
Hmm, Some people have been adding a longer barrel as a mod to increase velocity, if you couple this mod with a 4 inch barrel I wonder where it would be.
45Bravo ,
You are correct , this will increase wear on the pistol . In my opinion they are hard enough to cock in stock trim . I would believe the P3 would handle this better due to better materials and better build quality . It is so simple it is worth the effort to do . I consider the P17 like a Bic lighter !! throw it away when it breaks , the P3 is a Heirloom pistol . I believe eventually the slide ( upper ) will bend or break on the P17 . This is a case of ” You get what You pay for ”
Gene Salvino
BB ,
I want the readers to know that this will have to be a DIY modification . We are not allowed to alter/ modify anything as a Beeman service center / importer , we have to use OEM parts or equivalent. This is a slick mod that someone should attempt when they reseal there pistols.
Gene Salvino
Gene,
I hope they all understand that. No modifications we show are really authorized, unless the manufacturer explicitly states it.
B.B.
Streetmusician,
My [engineering] hat’s off to you! That’s a really nice inexpensive mod for a very decent power increase…cool. =>
Take care,
dave
Streetmusician,
Thankyou for that information. Playing with the volume of the valves output?
Pretty slick! I will mention it to my broheim. His P17 is harder to close than the 1377 I use.
Maybe BB will do a series on the 1377 too, from mild to wild. Or a side by side shoot off
with the P17 and say, an FWB65?
Rob
I wonder if that black o-ring is getting blow by with that increased spring pressure.
To me the gun should of picked up more than 60 fps.
Reminds me of when I did the spring cutting on a magnum spring gun to reduce spring preload. I actually cut like 3 inches off the spring and velocity didn’t slow down. Basically the spring had so much preload that the extra push it made just blew air past the piston seal.
I think that is going on with this mod. Maybe a little thicker diameter of the o-ring might seal it better and pick up velocity even more.
And to me the shot cycle may be more harsh with this mod.
BB,
I have been trying to log on with my other laptop, but all I get is an endless succession of “match the pictures”.
RR,
Well don’t just sit there — match them! 🙂
Seriously the only thing I can think of is to dump your cookies. I don’t know if that will do anything at all.
Of course it goes without saying that your laptop is also logged in on an account (so I said it anyway)? The cookies would have caught that.
B.B.
RR,
Just logged back in after a few hours off (outside, planting GHOST peppers – 3 plants,… 4 Cayenne pepper plants,… 3 cherry tomatoes plants and a Basil plant),….. and had to go through 1 set of motorcycles and 2 rounds of trucks. 🙁 I maintain/clear my “cookies”,… Twinkies and ho-ho’s,….. whatever the jargon is,….. on a regular basis,…. so not sure what is going on. I do know,…. I do not care for it one bit! (No other site) does this. The “saved” passwords always come right through.
Chris
Chris U,
If you find them try a shishito pepper plant they are not hot but fried in hot (temperature) oil and then salted make a very tasty snack.
If you want more heat fry some Serrano peppers and onions in hot oil. Then a few drops of soy sauce.
RR,
Maybe neither of us qualify as human. It always takes me quite a few tries to get through the pictures. All it does is make me frustrated and angry.
Don
Took me 4-5 days to log out the last time I committed.
Kept sending me to the log in page.
Great mod! Just that tiny amount of space made quite the difference. Might try it out on mine.
Good day to all.
Log out worked this time.
Streetmusician,
Great job both on the report and the mod. I think I have a box of thermocouples somewhere next time I tear into a p17 I will be looking for a sleeve. Did you consider trimming the spring down? I forget just how the spring interacts with the valve and trigger.
The p17’s sure give a lot of bang for the buck in my opinion. Thanks for your report.
Don
Benji-Don
Both accuracy and trigger on my P17 are simply amazing considering the cost. This pistol should sell well for many years. Hard to cock but not so much if rear sight is removed and using a golf glove on cocking hand. Helps feeding a pellet too.
Deck