About as new as you can get

by Tom Gaylord

Writing as B.B. Pelletier

S&W 79G Boxed
45Bravo stumbled into this treasure! A like-new S&W 79G in the box with everything — and more!

Merry Christmas everyone!

History of airguns

Today’s report is another guest blog from reader Ian McKee who writes as 45 Bravo. Today he shows us his latest acquisition — which is a real find!.

If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at [email protected]

Over to you, Ian.

About as new as you can get

Ian McKee 
Writing as 45 Bravo

This report covers:

  • The right place and time
  • Limit yourself
  • Exposure drives prices up
  • A good one?
  • Back story
  • A tidbit for everyone
  • The air pistol
  • The S&W CO2 cartridges
  • The S&W pellets
  • A question

The right place and time

The deals are out there, you just have to be in the right place at the right time. This time I lucked out and stumbled onto a gem!

I have said before I have a standing notification on Gunbroker for any new listing that include 78g, and 79g, and anything with Daisy 780, 790 and 41 in the listing, along with Crosman MK1 or MKII listings. I am always looking for one of these, to pick it up at a good price and reseal it. Then to get it back in circulation. 

Limit yourself

I limit myself at about a $125 bid price for one that needs resealing, so I can buy parts, and reseal the gun, and still resell it at a reasonable price. That gives someone else a chance to get addicted to these vintage airguns.  

Exposure drives prices up

As you readers know, I have written a lot about this type of air pistol already. This series has apparently sparked a renewed interest in the guns, and inadvertently, has driven up the asking price of the Smith & Wesson air pistols at online auctions, but you also see fewer and fewer that need resealing offered for sale. 

I frequent the online airgun classifieds also, but some sites are a haven for scammers, so you have to be careful. 

A good one?

I saw a listing on one of the sites for a Smith & Wesson 79G in the box with the box of CO2 cartridges.  Asking $110 shipped. The photos were a little fuzzy, but it still looked good. 

SW 790 boxed stuff
This one came with all the paper and things not normally found.

The seller listed a phone number, so I called him and we talked awhile. I came to the conclusion that I didn’t think he was a scammer, so while we were on the phone, I sent him the money. 

Back story

The back story was he had bought this pistol at an estate sale years ago, for his collection, but had never tried to shoot it.  Now, years later, he wanted to pass it on to someone who would use it and enjoy it.

I am now the proud owner of a like new 79G. I did not own one of my own, so I have been using a Phase 2, Daisy 790 that I had resealed and after finding out how well it shot, I upgraded it to an adjustable trigger from a 78G someone was parting out on ebay a few years ago.

This pistol is serial number 104159, so it is later production, late enough to have the German Freimark, denoting a power level of less than 7.5 joules, and the darker grips, and no trigger adjustment. Come to think of it, I have never seen a 79G with an adjustable trigger.

SW 790 serial freimark
Here you see the serial number and Freimark.

A tidbit for everyone

From what I understand, unlike the UK, that has a hard 6 foot-pound (8.1 joules) limit on their pistols, the Germans have a tolerance built into their system, it has to average less than 7.5 joules, and no single shot over 8.5 joules. [Ed: Now I’m learning things I never knew! If that is true it is a surprisingly enlightened law!]

This pistol came with all of the factory paperwork, and 5 unused CO2 cartridges in the blue Smith & Wesson co2 box, and a pellet sample pack with 3 CO2 cartridges and 150 pellets in a ziplock bag, and the pellets were in a partition of their own. I had never seen this sample packaging before.

SW 790 package pellets
Apparently Smith & Wesson used this packaging near the end of the production cycle to reduce the number of pellets and CO2 cartridges that came with a new pistol.

From searching for parts for the Daisy 41, I have become acquainted with several airgunsmiths around the country who specialize in this series of pistols. 

One of them informed me that he had seen the packaging before. It should contain 3 S&W CO2 cartridges, and 150 pellets, which works out to 50 shots per cartridge.

That makes sense if you remember some of the pistols came with a 5 pack of CO2 cartridges and a tin of 250 pellets, that again, is 50 shots per cartridge. 

Smith & Wesson saved money by reducing the number of cartridges and pellets included in the kit, and eliminated the cost of CO2 and pellet packaging.

The sample pack did include 2 unused CO2 cartridges and 1 used CO2 cartridge, and 125 pellets.

The air pistol

This air pistol does not have a mark or blemish on it. And, after resealing it, I firmly believe it has only fired 25 pellets in its life!

SW 790 loading tray
No wear on the loading tray.

SW 790 bolt release
No wear on the bolt release.

I can tell you I had sweats while working on this one trying not to put any marks on it accidentally. I used urethane o-rings, and a rebuilt factory valve stem, it should shoot to factory specs, and be good for another 50 years.

It is now holding gas, but I have not shot it for velocity or accuracy yet. 

The S&W CO2 cartridges

I have weighed the CO2 cartridges and compared them to the empty one. The empty one weighs 32.83 grams. The lightest one weighs 42.02 grams, 9.19 grams heavier than the empty one. The heaviest one weighs 44.14 grams, 10.31 grams heavier than the empty one. So I think they are all still holding gas.

The S&W pellets

I have weighed 10 of the pellets, but haven’t measured them for head size as I don’t have a pellet gauge. Of the 10 pellets I weighed, they ranged from 8.02 grains to 8.33 grains. They look a lot like the Crosman “flying ash cans” from the same era. 

SW 790 pellets
The pellets that came with the pistol look like Crosman “ashcans” to me.

If its accurate, it will probably become my personal gun. However, if it can’t out-shoot the Daisy 790 I mentioned, it may get passed on to a collector.  

A question

I wanted to ask you, the readers, should I test it with one of the factory Smith & Wesson CO2 cartridges and some of the included pellets?

I don’t think Tom has tested one of the guns with the supplied pellets and gas. At least he hasn’t printed about testing them. [ED. No, Tom hasn’t tested one with the supplied pellets and gas.]

So sound off — should I test it with the factory sample pack? Or should I just save them and test it with modern pellets and CO2?

Cheers and Merry Christmas, Ian.

71 thoughts on “About as new as you can get

  1. Firstly, Merry Christmas, everyone!

    In regards to using the S&W cartridges to test the gun: please don’t. They are artifacts of a different time and manufacturing method; never to be duplicated. Using them would serve no purpose data wise. Akin to using an almost extinct bird species’ egg to make an omelet to ‘check’ the taste.

    Errata- the section ‘The S&W CO2 Cartridges’ . I believe the heaviest should be 44.14 grams instead of 34.14 grams.

    Again, Merry Christmas!



    • Great writing and fabulous photos! Thanks Ian. I vote for modern gas canisters and pellets, in the first instance. Then depending on how that goes, take a view on the old loads. Just wouldn’t want to get a pellet stick in that hardly used barrel!

      This SW does remind me of the Lovena Lov 21. BB did two articles on that, which he thought was “inspired” by the Crosman Mk I, II and therefore this SW too. BB found fantastic velocity results, but afaik, he never did accuracy.

      BB will you do the accuracy test of the Lov 21?

      Happy New Year!

      Chuck


  2. Ian

    That is one beautiful pristine sample. It makes no sense to me for you to use the the factory sample pack. I would rather see it perform using modern pellets and CO2.

    Siraniko


  3. 45 Bravo
    Apparently you have as close as you can get to a New Old Stock survivor. A fine collectable. I would not even shoot it other than to verify it is fully functional. The vintage CO2 and pellets just add to the package for display. Save them.
    I have an immaculate NIB 9mm Interarms Original Mauser Swiss Pattern Parabellum ( Luger ) with mirror finish bluing I simply never got around to shooting and never will now. I’d buy a used one to shoot.
    Bob M


  4. Ian,

    Nice report. Well done on scoring such a pristine example. I would use the new carts as well. Save the vintage ones as part of the kit/collection.

    Chris

    Merry Christmas to all! 🙂 I look to have received about 5″+ of snow (central Ohio). East of me and North looks to be 8-12″.


  5. I agree with everyone else, save the lead and gas for the next collector. (even if it is you) You might want to get out the white gloves when you test fire it, just in case Merry Christmas everyone!!!


  6. Ian,

    Awesome score! Waste those cartridges and pellets?! Seriously?! Why don’t you send me THAT pistol and forget about getting it back?! Please include the unused cartridges and pellets.

    I wish to all a Most Blessed Christmas!


  7. After writing the blog, I got to thinking, co2 gas is the same even if it is 50 years old.
    So the Cartridges are safe.
    The pellet quality/performance compared to modern quality is another thing.

    As recently as about a year ago, I would see new old stock listings for unopened tins of S&W pellets online, for about $7 a tin.

    But there again, the series of articles Tom started on these guns, and I was allowed to contribute to has changed that.

    My wife and I miss the white Christmases we had when we lived in Colorado, Wisconsin, and Massachusetts.

    Houston just doesn’t get those holidays.

    Ian.


  8. Ian,

    I agree on the use of the cartridges and pellets, with one minor modification in how you frame the choice – don’t make a decision on using them until after you have decided to keep the gun as your personal shooter, and lived with it for a while in that roll. If it will be yours then you can decide what you want to do with them then. If you choose to sell it to a collector, they would prefer to have all the original stuff they can get with it.

    And Merry Christmas to all!

    Alan


  9. Merry Christmas all!

    We are enjoying a green Christmas this year though we have had several snow falls that lingered for a few days. Don’t mind the unusually mild weather as we just missed (by a couple of degrees) several feet of snow – you don’t have to shovel rain and I am good with that 🙂

    Take care, be safe and best wishes for a better 2021!

    Hank


    • Hank,

      I told you to send me your FWB, not your weather! It is in the mid teens around here this morning. I would just as soon it was a little warmer.

      I really do not mind the snow though. If we are going to have cold weather, I at least want some snow. It is just not enough for me to pull out my snowshoes yet.


  10. Ian,

    I agree with Pacoinohio and Siraniko. The unpierced tips on the CO2 carts matter if you ever sell it. Beyond monetary value, they should simply remain unmolested.

    Michael


  11. It is yours and ultimately all the decisions about shooting the pistol and what to do with the CO2 cylinders and ashcan pellets are yours to make. FM would leave it all untouched but that’s FM. I might do one or two shooting sessions with the pistol for the sheer enjoyment, but no more.

    Merry Christmas to all and may supplies of all we enjoy improve in 2021!


  12. Merry Christmas to all!

    Best wishes from Houston. Not a white Christmas but instead a very pleasant 50°F sunny morning, perhaps compensation for 100+ degrees in summer.

    Ian, congratulations on your find. It is a real treasure. I will join the consensus and suggest you keep the unopened cylinders. On the other hand, if it was mine I couldn’t resists testing it with a variety of modern pellets and, if it shows to be a good shooter, perhaps even a very few of the original ones. But do not listen to me, I am not a collector – I appreciate and admire well designed things that work as intended, or better, with emphasis in ‘work’. Keep us informed on what you do decide and what you do find out!

    Henry
    .




  13. Beautiful example of a Smith and Wesson. Shoot it, we all want to see how it does. I enjoy all three of my Smith’s.

    Merry Christmas to all. 2020 has been a disappointment to many, not seeing loved ones. Hospital would not let me stay with wife in rehab so sit in lonely house. Fourteen days in hospital and now rehab, but it’s NOT Covis-19 thank the Lord. Think I’ll go shoot some airguns. Central Texas is bright and sunny.


  14. Bravo i believe in using things since that is the reason they were created. I have never understood the NIB collection. I thought for a time what to recommend to you and then it dawned on me of how I felt at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola Florida seeing aircraft Bureau Numbers I had actually flown on display. If an example survives and ends up in a Museum all well and good for memories of those who enjoyed using one and the visual enjoyment of those who never had the pleasure of using one.

    But it is yours to do with as you choose.

    Thank you for another really great Guest Blog.

    Wishing all of you a Happy and Healthy New Year!

    shootski


  15. Ian,
    Glad you found a really nice original specimen w/ goodies. The 79G you recently re-sealed for me was in somewhat similar condition, and came with original box and pellets. Unfortunately only 1 spent CO2 cartridge was in the original box that would hold 5 cartridges, but I would love to find 4 or 5 unused ones to put in the box for memorabilia or display purposes. I have not counted if 250 pellets are still in the original tin, but my vote is with the majority on this blog to leave them as-is – and I’m glad you are not gong to use the original C02 cartridges. At this point they are collectible, and I only wish I had a few unused S&W CO2s for my 79G.

    Happy Holidays, and stay safe.

    -WC


    • Yes, yours is one of the nicest condition ones I have ever worked on.

      The one I worked on after yours was also in great condition, but it fought me every inch of the way in disassembly, it had the original seals also, but someone had used a lubricant that had solidified, and gummed everything together.

      Each gun presents its own challenges.

      This one was still dry, other than the white lithium grease the factory used on the trigger and hammer assembly.

      Ian


  16. B.B.,
    I am experiencing Marauder blues. I will need an expert to get me through this. The trigger I replaced the broken one with has also broken. There ate 4 screws that fasten the plate to the side of the trigger housing. I have succeeded in stripping the hex heads of two.
    I would like to replace the trigger with a stronger alloy I have seen.
    If you or your readers have some one you can recommend, I will greatly appreciate it, preferably some on near Houston but beggars can’t be choosers.
    ~ken


    • Regarding the stripped screws- one thing to try before the bench top milling machine, aka Dremel-

      Using an appropriate sized Torx screwdriver, tap driver into hex recess and then turn. Tap and turn, tap and turn, alternating directions. The sharp corners of the Torx can sometimes get a bite. Of course, you will make sure the item is well supported before hammering on it, will have used penetrating oil and applied heat (soldering iron) to the screw heads before all this. Good luck.


  17. Ken,

    Generation 1 or 2?
    Is it the actual trigger or the link?
    Have you gotten inside the trigger?
    You can cut slots for a straight blade screwdriver with a Dremel tool to get those bugered hex screws out.
    PA sells (sold) replacement triggers for Marauders and there are a raft of aftermarket “upgrades” that a GOOGLE search will turn up.
    I have a Gen 1 with the original link but have a spare in the parts box just waiting for a chance to get off the bench. I thought they had solved the problem folks were having with the trigger group…i guess not!

    shootski


    • Shootski,

      Thank you. I will see about getting those screws out.

      It is gen 2. The trigger is broken where the screw hole is, same as the first one. I don’t think I did anything out of the ordinary.

      The trigger replacement came from PA and seemed identical to the first one in every way. I have another but I want a tougher one. I do know one outfit that advertises replacements for trigger and see.

      I think a Dremel tool is in my future.

      ~ken


  18. Shootski and all
    The more desirable something is to collectors, the more valuable it becomes.
    Now I collect Morgan Silver Dollars and the deal is it’s value is determined by two things, Condition Rarity and Absolute Rarity, (How many are out there to be had)
    When something is NIB (New In Box) it is assumed to be in perfect original condition. The most desirable.
    In the coin world that would be MS-70 a flawless Mint State graded condition that has never been in circulation.

    You can’t clean a coin to look new without destroying its value. But if there are simply none of that year out there to be found a cleaned one could still be valuable. (Absolute rarity) You can pay $49. for one or $19,695.00 for another depending on its overall rarity.

    You could change our every part of an airgun that had any wear on it, if you can find them, and repaint it to factory specs but it would never be NIB. That is restored and probably better that way if you want to shoot it.
    A lot of NOS, New Old Stock, materials do not stand the test of time and brake down on their own, like rubber seals, so some NIB items may not be usable over time. Originality is the desired condition here.
    Just like you would never use that $19,695.00 1895-S Morgan silver dollar in MS-65 condition. It’s sealed in an air tight capsule anyway.
    People enjoy the challenge of collecting things and sometimes you get rewarded with an increase in value as the rarity increases along with the desirability to poses it. Popsicle sticks may an exception. But, a NIB unassembled 60’s Revell plastic model of a FORD GT-40 in 1/24 scale is going for $225.00 these days.

    Museums just collect old stuff and condition is not a high priority. Desirable, I’m sure, but not necessary. Absolute rarity would seem more important. Things you just don’t see anymore and significant historical items. I’m sure it is in the NRA Museum.


    • Bob M, and anyone else who cares to read this dissertation,

      Here at RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns I have quite a few of the old gals hanging around. None of them are here because of condition or absolute rarity. Many are representative of a certain time period or design feature of airguns through the 1900’s to now. All of them are restored in at least some small way, as I handle and shoot all of them as frequently as possible. Most I have done the restorative work.

      I could not own Ian’s 79G. I have no use for the box and would shoot it on a regular basis. It would end up with wear marks, scratches, etc. Several years ago I had the opportunity to buy a NIB Daisy Model 99 at the Roanoke Show for $175. I did not even touch it. A year or two later I bought a used 1959 Daisy Model 99 for $35. It has a scratch on the paint and wear here and there. I really enjoy pulling it out and shooting it. By the way, I guess it could be considered an absolute rarity as 1959 was the first year they made this Model and there was a major design change to the 1960 Model 99.

      Do not get me wrong. I am not being critical of those who collect for the sake of collecting, even if they do keep running the prices up. 😉 I used to collect Gil Hibben design knives and WWI bayonets. One day I thought, why? They are all gone now. For some reason though, people still are giving me knives.


      • I have never been a real collector per se.

        I have always been a shooter.
        But I do like to see anything when it was new. BUT I also want to see it functional.

        If there were only less than 100 of something made, that would be a collectible, but if there are hundreds of thousands made, that’s a different story.

        Tom is the process of reviewing the Air Venturi 46m, his is serial number 7, one of the other review writers has serial number 1, if they stopped importing them today, there would be probably less than 500 in country.

        That would be a collectible gun.
        In my opinion.

        According to the consumer product safety council the recall for the drop test effected approximately 200,000 pistols.

        They say the S&W run was approximately 172,000, and the Daisy run was over 25,500 but I have worked on S&W guns with serial numbers over 180,000.
        And as low as number 1075.

        They would make a good addition to a person that collects Smith & Wesson memorabilia, as it was outside the firearm division, but still MADE by Smith & Wesson.

        While I don’t “collect” guns, I do want to own the lowest serial number possible, I have a Crosman MK1, with set number 659, it was abused by its previous owners, and has more metal showing than paint. It has no real collector value due to the tens of thousands made from 1966-1986, and its condition, it will get refinished this winter.

        I have a Gunpower Stealth, serial number 669, made in 1998, it is my go to pest gun for work. It is in excellent condition, since It is still being produced today, it would have little or no collector value.
        But it will be in my collection for the rest of my life.

        Some people are harder on equipment than others,
        I shoot my guns, but I don’t abuse my guns, if they get a ding, it was by accident.

        My daisy 790 has several thousand pellets through it, but the only noticeable wear is on the bolt release.

        I tend to drop my pellets straight down into the barrel, rather than load them into the tray and then close the bolt.

        I will use modern pellets, and leave the factory kit intact.

        How do you grown men and women that love these pistols cry?

        Look at the condition of one that was sent to me to refurbish.




            • Somewhere I have an after photo, just not on my tablet.

              The owner wanted it refinished, I informed him due to the many thousands of tiny nicks, and dings, and it being an early serial number (a little less then 4000) that blasting the surface would not be the correct texture/finish for the gun, and I would have to sand the surface to smooth it out, below the dings, then paint it, and some of the detail in the markings would be lost.

              He wanted it to look as close to new as possible, and he gave the ok..

              It looked good, but He was not happy that the marking were not a deep and crisp as they were before.

              Since that one, I have sworn not to refinish anymore guns for customers.

              I will reseal their gun, but not refinish the gun.

              Ian


          • Ian,

            At least with this one I would not feel bad about scratching it.

            I try, but sometimes stuff happens. I had an immaculate FWB 601. Then I put a scratch on it. I had to find a new home for it before I shed any more tears over it.


    • I do understand where you are coming from, but let me ask you this from your perspective.

      Which is more valuable, a like new in box S&W 79g, that appears to be unused, and comes with everything it was sold with.
      But the gun does not work as the seals have deteriorated.

      Or the same gun that has been resealed with modern orings, but, a rebuilt factory valve stem.
      That is functional.

      Did I just kill the collector value of the gun by resealing it?
      Or did I raise the value?

      Ian..

      Remember, over 180,000 of these were made.


      • Ian,
        What seal kit did you use? I purchased a seal kit from another company and it worked for awhile and will hold air, but then every so often going for a reload it will just dump all the remaining air.

        Steve


        • A quick couple of questions for you.

          When you bought the seal kit, if you just get the orings, or orings and the main valve stem?

          Next, when it dumps the gas, I where is it leaking from?

          Out of the piercing cap, out of the area above the grip, or out of the barrel?

          Ian


          • It was an o-ring/valve stem package from Baker Air Guns and I believe it leaks out the top. It happens quick and usually catches me off guard so its been difficult identifying where it leaks specially but I am almost positive its out the top.


            • Ok I am familiar with their kit, it comes with a delrin main valve seat on a steel shaft.

              Personally, if you wan at to upgrade the power somewhat, and help the consistency, I have always used parts from Mac1 airguns, he uses 90 durometer mil spec urethane orings, and his upgraded steam, is the same design he uses in his LD pistols using the Crosman MKI pistol.

              A lot of my customers want their pistol factory original, so I use remanufactured S&W valve stems, done by Mike Baker (not affiliated with baker air guns) his email,is. [email protected]
              Tell him I sent you.

              I have used the eBay urethane orings, (they are all white orings).

              But because of getting substandard orings in some kits, I have started buying directly from the Oring store on line.

              I buy the 90 durometer mil spec urethane orings and still source the stems from either Mike or Mac 1 which ever way the owner wants his rebuilt.

              The orings are hard, and it helps to heat them with a blow dryer to soften them for installation.

              Also, to charge the gun for the first time, it helps to heat the gun up either in the sun, or by a blow dryer, until it is warm. (Remove the grips first) this softens the seals, and raises the gas pressure to help things seal.

              Before piercing the cartridge, Dry fire the pistol 15 or 20 times to get the valve stem to imprint on the valve seat.

              Then cock the gun, and pierce the cartridge..

              Yours dumping sometimes when charging it, can be a couple of things.
              The valve is not sealing on the seat very well.

              Or, (this is a common problem) the valve spring has gotten weaker or shortened over the years, and is not pushing the valve closed tight enough with the hammer resting on the other end of the stems stem.

              Until you decide to go back into the gun, I suggest cocking the gun, to take the hammer off of the valve stem, putting the gun on safe, then piercing the cartridge.

              My email is [email protected]
              Keep me posted.

              Ian..


    • Bob,
      Could you please advise how I could value or get rid of some coins that I inherited without getting taken advantage of? I have not even looked at them closely but I know that some are the annual non-circulated cased mint U.S. coin sets from the1970’s and 1980’s. I’m pretty sure they are all U.S. coins of one type or another. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

      Mark


      • Mark,

        I’m not Bob but since he didn’t reply about your coins I’ll chime in.

        First, gold and silver prices are impressive now so maybe selling now makes sense. However, we, USA, are mounting an unprecedented deficit with most in DC blaming their spending bills on the China virus. These deficits have historically resulted in inflation which in turn push precious metal prices upwards. Short version……you may want to hang onto your coins and sell them later.

        If you’re forced to sell now familiarize yourself with the ANA (American Numismatic Association). Here’s a link to a good website with lots of resources:

        https://www.money.org/numismatic-blog


        • Thanks Kevin I will look at this. I don’t need to sell them. I am just trying to gather info so I don’t get taken advantage of when the time comes. And I trust the knowledge base on this blog more than most (which is a credit to Tom IME). I wouldn’t be surprised if the coins end up in my estate anyway, Thanks again.


  19. Ian, Bob M, and RidgeRunner,

    I understand the place where all three of you are coming from.
    So what I would need to do is sell Ian’s airgun for as much as the market could bear and buy something new or used that is or could be made shootable.

    I wonder if Ian will go along with my plan? ;^)

    shootski



  20. If it were not for collectors items like this would not be showing up every once in a while.
    Then there are airguns just made for the collector. Like the Limited Reproduction Daisy wire stock rifle.
    I have made my decision about which way to go on some, Get two! One to shoot and one to save.

    I like the middle of the road decision too. Restore one, take care of it, and shoot it. Benefits everyone.


  21. B.B.,

    The Origin is as good as the reviewers have said.
    Benjamin and Crosman HP pellets are good.
    I do plan to order some JSB or AA pellets and I also will order a couple of slugs types, but this will have to wait a bit.
    I must have shot a bunch of pellets through the Titan I bought in the fall of 2011, because I was running low. I already knew this has been a pitiful year for air guns and pellets in the box stores.
    I went looking anyway, and found three tons of Crosman HPs and scarfed them up. There were no other pellets to buy.
    Came home and shot some. Both the Benjamin and Crosman HPs seem to be the same.
    I have a tin of Benjamin .22 Destroyers (we seem to be stuck with ammo with not helpful names). Anyway, they are not something I would be tempted to purchase again.

    For the piece missing in the hand pump my only option is to send it in for fix or replace. Not a satisfying answer. Oh, well.

    Ken


  22. Hello!
    Took the Gamo CF-S for a shoot at my friends orchard. and tried out the scope set up with the various springs I have. This turned out to be a bad idea as the nitrogen ram is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too powerful and promptly shocked the scope off. The ridiculous idea that a 4mm screw and a barrel clamp would be fine …. is plainly naive. The scope sheared the 4mm screw off and slid the clamp along the barrel. Oh dear. I hate that ram! It’s just too strong. I did my testing with the thin spring, then the thick spring then the ram. and yes the trajectory became flatter . but the noise and the THUD of the ram was not nice. Maybe a break barrel gun with the solid end on the main tube but not my gun with the soft alloy transfer port. No! Bad. Do not do this! So what now ? Well I think the Bullpup idea is good but I might go back to dioptre sight and low. So I need to move back behind the main tube. A redesign! Phew. Ditch the scope, add dioptre, save some weight and get more robust. Oh and go back to the thick spring. Also this: cocking the ram was not easy! I am no weakling but holy mackerel that ram is not kidding. Too strong! A ram that is moderately stringer than the stock spring would be great.
    Erm here is a pic of the naked CF-S with Dioptre sight. Stock design in the works! AND the dove tail mount on the Gamo is not in the center of the main tube! This is terrible! How could they …. foul that up? Lucky the Dioptre is floating and it’s no big deal to zero that out. Phew! But a scope ??? Bad! Merry happy days! Robert.


    • RobertA,

      At least you have actually tried your idea out. Maybe a semi bullpup design might work. Depends on how you actually plan to use your rifle in the end. Offhand only? Multiple positions? From a rest only?

      Siraniko


      • Siraniko.
        I have been ruminating out in the garage on this very question. It’s looking like semi bullpup. The dioptre sight close to the barrel line is good. There is no eye relief so I can get close to the sight. There is no major recoil so getting dented cheek bone is off the table. Doing simple calculations it looks like the overall length increase by about 130mm. The butt plate is pretty low with no craning the neck forward to reach the sight. I like off hand shooting however I once I get my kit actually working I will try some different stances etc. I can pretty much make up my own field target range if I want. : – ) Not committed to any particular set up just yet.
        The full bullpup is nice and compact but to use the Sight I have to come up with some not so fool hardy method of retaining. and it has to be quite high…. I will leave for today and retire to some dinner. Robert.



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