The Diana 75.
This report covers:
- Introduction
- The test
- RWS R10 Match Pistol
- H&N Finale Match Light
- Qiang Yuan Match
- Discussion
- Velocity
- Summary
Today BB wrings all the accuracy he can from the Diana 75/Beeman 400 target air rifle. This one will be good!
Introduction
Yes, this blog was published by accident on Saturday, and no, I didn’t write another one for today. I worked on Michael’s rifle.
Last week I wrote about follow-through and I said sometimes these reports help me as much as anyone. Today is such a day.
Just to remind you, I am planning a shootoff between this Diana 75 and my FWB 300S, which I believe to be the most accurate 10-meter target air rifle I own. Before doing that, I wanted to find the most accurate pellet(s) for this rifle. I already know the best ones for the FWB.
This is the third time I have tested this rifle for accuracy. I also have a surprise test for you after the accuracy test, but let’s stick to one thing at a time.
The test
I shot the rifle off a sandbag rest with the rifle rested directly on the bag. I shot 5-shot groups to try more pellets and also to not tire too quickly.
I wore my regular glasses that seem to work well with the target sights. And I followed-through on every shot, starting with the fourth shot on the first target. I had forgotten about that report until then, but the smoothness of the shot cycle reminded me to keep my eyes on the target longer after the shot.
RWS R10 Match Pistol
The first pellet tested is the RWS R10 Match Pistol pellet that has demonstrated good accuracy to this point. The best to date has been five pellets in 0.162-inches between centers at 10 meters. Today, with follow-through, that was bettered.
Today five R10 Match Pistol pellets went into 0.108-inches between centers at 10 meters. That is a gold dollar group!
RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets are very accurate in this rifle. Five went into 0.108-inches at 10 meters.
RWS R10 Match Heavy
I wanted to try some heavier pellets in this rifle, so next up were five RWS R10 Match Heavy pellets. They surprised me by going into a 0.134-inch group at 10 meters. That’s another gold dollar group!
Five RWS R10 Match heavy pellets made a 0.134-inch group at 10 meters.
H&N Finale Match Light
Ooops! Since H&N Finale Match Light pellets have turned in the best 10-meter groups in the past (0.14-inches between centers) with this rifle, I expected them to do well today. But something happened. They gave me the largest group of the test, at 0.225-inches between centers.
I don’t know what happened because the sight picture looked good every time. And the follow-through was spot on. Obviously something went wrong with this group and I am at a loss to explain it. I can’t blame the rifle and after you see the entire test you’ll understand why, but something happened to open that group.
Five H&N Finale Match Light pellets made this 0.225-inch group at 10 meters. Yes, I see the torn paper, but I measured across the round holes only.
Qiang Yuan Match
The last pellet I tested was the 8.2-grain Qiang Yuan Match pellet. When I saw the group they made I was surprised. It appeared smaller than the first group that was made by the R10 Match Pistol pellets. When I measured it after shooting I found it measured 0.112-inches, which is slightly larger than the first group.
Five Qiang Yuan Match pellets went into 0.112-inches at 10 meters. It’s the second-smallest group of the test.
Because I thought the Qiang Yuan Match pellets were best I shot a second group with them, just to see if the first group was a fluke. Apparently it wasn’t because the second time around 5 went into 0.189-inches at 10 meters.
The second group of Qiang Yuan Match pellets is larger, but not by much. At 0.189-inchaes between centers it still merits a trime for comparison.
Discussion
Well, I believe I am finally wringing out much of the accuracy this Diana 75 has to offer. In five targets there are three gold dollars (groups smaller than 0.15-inches between centers) and one trime (group smaller than 0.20-inches between centers) used for comparison. Only one dime was used for group comparison today.
And wait, there is more! This is the special test I mentioned at the beginning. If you remember last time I retested the velocity of the rifle after the accuracy test. In Part 2 the rifle shot RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets at an average 534 f.p.s. After Part 4 when 60 more shots had been fired that average had increased to 545 f.p.s. I retested it today because some readers thought the rifle might still be breaking in after the reseal Dave Slade did.
I shot a total of 27 shots today. The first two were just to wake up the powerplant, and then the five, 5-shot groups. Before this velocity test I shot the rifle an additional 20 times, bringing the total since the last velocity test up to 47 shots.
Velocity
With ten RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets the velocity averaged 501 f.p.s. That is a decrease of 44 f.p.s. from the average seen in the last test and also proof that there is something amiss in the powerplant. Before I pit this rifle against the FWB I will have it resealed.
Summary
Today’s test was a good one because it demonstrated to me and I hope to you as well the importance of the basics. Specifically I refer to follow-through.
I was also alerted to the state of tune on this rifle. Something is definitely off and needs to be corrected before I put it up against the FWB.
BB,
It’s Saturday.
Fish
Fish,
Treat it as a sneak peak for Monday. Bonus round because of WordPress. B.B. and the IT Team still have a headache with the scheduling.
Siraniko
B B,
A Saturday post is a nice surprise. That’s proper Diana 75 accuracy now. I may be mistaken but I thought you said it had been re-sealed in the past. If it has been done with the newer type seals and they are not damaged, I think I’d be looking for new springs to restore power.
Regards,
Drew
Regards,
Drew
Damn near MOA. I’d love to try one.
B.B.,
I’m surprised that the comments made on Saturday survived. Previously when a blog was posted before its proper date the comments posted would have been erased upon reposting. How long has it been since this rifle was resealed? Wayne Johnson already mentioned that he was disappointed with the velocity when he chronographed it after it was resealed by David Slade. Maybe the Diana 75 with its Giss System is a rifle that is meant to be used and not hidden away and occasionally used?
Siraniko
3 out of 5 rating the gold dollar. That has to be a blog record!
Great shooting…
B.B.
They sure don’t make them like they used to. Nice gun, nice shooting!
-Y
Yogi,
I was pleased. But I think it was as much from remembering to follow through as anything. The 75 is an accurate rifle, no doubt, but this should help out with all shooting.
BB
BB when a rifle shoots like that dont you think you should move to 25 yds? I shoot tiny groups at 45 yds with the FWB 300
mildot52,
Maybe. But first I need to get the gun resealed.
BB
Mildot
Same with my FWB 300.
As long as I don’t tell it. It doesn’t know what distance its shooting at. It just knows to do good. And it does. 🙂
BB,
That thing sure is shooting sweet. It is a shame you have to have someone go over the guts.
You say it averaged 501 FPS, but you did not say how it behaved during the test. Was it a wide spread or pretty tight? Did it seem to drop off or increase velocity during the test or was it just all over the board?
RR,
I threw the numbers away, but as I recall it was fairly tight — 14-16 f.p.s. or so.
BB
BB
Nice shooting!
I’m confident the velocity loss has an explanation that will be defined and solved. I can’t say the same about the weird H&N Finale Match Light group. What caused the vertical and ragged string? I’m thinking all of us who shoot paper for score have had it happen but have no clue why. No called pulls, no wind gusts, nice quality pellet, no reasonable explanation. The test requires the changing of pellets but that one group is so out of sorts with the others. I often find that when switching pellet types the first shot lands farther away from the others so it is a break in or warmup shot that is not counted for score. But the question remains: what caused the H&N group?
Deck
Deck,
I wish I knew what caused it. It should have been as tight as the R10 Pistol group.
BB
Deck,
Just wondering about something…
As you know, when seasoning a newly cleaned barrel a bit of lead gets burnished into the pores of the metal. I read (somewhere, don’t remember where) that, when testing different brands (alloys) of pellets, it was best to clean and reseason the barrel before evaluating the next pellet. The writer (a serious target shooter) was speculating that changes in alloy could skew the results and it might take dozens of shots to stabilize the barrel.
I thought that it might be something to consider in extreme situations but for me, as a bona-fide plinker, sorting pellets is anal enough LOL!
…Just something to consider if there are no other obvious explanations.
Hank
Hank
I believe that too. Definitely have seen it.
The seasoning the barrel.
Hank
I think it was Jimmie Dee, serious target shooter, who wrote about pellet changing concerns. It prompted me to clean and shoot a couple hundred Field Target Trophy pellets through a big box store air rifle I own hoping to season the bore. It was and still is an inch and a quarter to two inch 10 shot grouper at 25 yards. I gave up seasoning for this rifle because in this case I was putting lipstick on a pig. I don’t doubt Jimmie Dee’s point about seasoning a bore. I just have a hard time believing it is enough to account for the dramatic difference that BB got with the Finale Match Lights. That group looks like an earthquake tremor.
Thanks for responding!
Deck
Sometimes, it’s just the luck of the draw, even with quality ammo. Good ammo is more consistent, but that still doesn’t mean perfect and this is still a tiny sample size.
BB
To make this is all fair are you going to make sure your 300 is up to snuff still before it gets pitted up against the 75?
GF1,
My 300S is red-hot and ready to go. Of course I will test it when I get the 75 back.
BB
BB
Should be a interesting test of the 2 guns.
What will be interesting to see is how both different guns will have thier own (different) favorite pellets. They do don’t they?
GF1,
I need to research the FWB but I think they do like some different pellets.
BB
BB
Will be waiting to hear.
BB. Good morning all!
Last night I went to the range with the .22LR target crowd. Shooting prone on a rest using a ’70’s Anschutz at 20m. Scored 90 again.
A) The predilection for the person who is coaching me to adjust my sight while I am shooting. ( Excuse me… )
B) Trigger: “A light trigger is better for accuracy !” He said…. The rifle I am shooting has almost zero weight and zero travel. If you try to feel for the break you will shoot accidentally. If the trigger is creeping I cannot tell, it’s that light. I cannot feel a break. I suggested to the chap that I would prefer a heavier trigger and he smirked ( I was not impressed by this ) . To me there is no information coming back to me through the trigger. I cannot competently feel when the trigger is going to operate. Trying to shoot between heart beats was not happening. I just had no idea when the trigger would work. Predictability vs lightness… What do you think ? Robert.
Robert,
I like to feel at least some stop before the break. It sounds like the trigger is miss-adjusted and set to be a hair trigger. That can be be dangerous all by itself and can lead to an accidental discharge if the rifle is bumped. Be careful.
The Red Wolf trigger is electronic and very light, but there is a stop. Cold fingers or fingers that have nerve damage would be an issue.
Chris
Robert,
That trigger is too light. Heavy it up!
BB
B.B.,
Don’t think he can since it’s not his rifle. I do agree that that trigger is TOO light. It’s an accident waiting to happen.
Siraniko
Siraniko
Well I almost shot off the target merely resting my finger on the trigger while getting comfortable being prone. Not good. We never move around with loaded rifles, loading is in position and we all stay put till everyone is safe. So there are no wandering barrels.
I am not sure if any of the groups that use the club rifles do so in any other position other than prone. But imagine if that rifle was on sold? I would be surprised if it passed a butt first shock test. Gosh, I bet they are all hair triggers. Just seems a bit knuckle dragger ish. Why do people think that a trigger with no resistance and super short pull is good ? Seems daft. Oh well! Robert.
RobertA,
They belong to the group that believe they are sniping the targets and need the minimum of movement when pulling the trigger. They are not an exception. There are a lot over here who also like a very light trigger, I was one of them. Until I got an accidental discharge, fortunately the rifle was on target just didn’t hit the real target. Difficult to educate when they are quite set in their ways.
Siraniko
BB,
My sentiments exactly!
However I am pretty sure that everyone at the club will be mortified if I suggested we have a look at the trigger. Make it heavier? Are you mad?
I went back to my cruddy garage and shot off a brace with the lowley FEG and it’s rudimentary agricultural level trigger, and it has way more character than that Anschutz hair trigger! It is heavy but it has a definite break which I really like and I can actually lighten that by adjusting the main spring preload. or I can shorten the sear engagement. but that makes the break smaller and touchier. Robert.
Your targets are more in line with what I would expect a 75/400 to do. I agree your velocity indicates that something is up. It will be fun to see how it does after resealing and cleaning.