Benjamin Gunnar.
This report covers:
- Scope
- The test
- Ten Meters
- JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
- Apolo Air Boss
- H&N Slug
- H&N Baracuda 18
- H&N Baracuda Match 5.53mm
- Discussion
- Summary
Today we start looking at the accuracy of the .22-caliber Benjamin Gunnar. And by start I mean there will be several more reports like this one.
Scope
I mounted an Aeon 8-32X50 scope on the rifle in 2-piece UTG cantilever mounts. The mounts were what was handy in a 30mm size, but I want to report that the Gunnar rotary magazine does not stick up above the Gunnar’s receiver. and that makes mounting a scope easy.
The scope has parallax adjustment down to 10 yards on the left side, so sighting-in should have been easy.
The test
Well, here is where the day blew up. I figured the Gunnar was going to be accurate so I shot one shot at 12 feet and when it went to the right place I backed up to 25 yards. I planned to shoot 5-shot groups today so I could shoot a lot of different pellets and hopefully find the most accurate ones.
The rifle was shot off a sandbag rest. I pushed the rifle forward, though not too far because the Gunnar is muzzle-heavy.
I mounted the DonnyFL Ronin silencer to keep her highness, Dale Evans, appeased. And with it the rifle was super quiet but not that accurate. Ten Air Arms 16-grain domes went into 1.037-inches at 25 yards — yuck!
At 25 yards with the silencer installed the Gunnar put 10 Air Arms 16-grain domes into a 1.037-inch group.
That group made me wonder if the silencer was throwing things off. So I removed it and shot 5 more pellets. I aimed at the target above the one I had just shot, but the pellets now went 8 inches to the right — into the door jamb of my garage door. Game over!
Because I am shooting into a rubber mulch trap I don’t hear the pellets hit the target and I didn’t hear any of these, either. And the target had too many holes from sight-in to know where they were going. I should have stopped but I didn’t.
Ten Meters
So now I moved the shooting bench up to 10 meters and continued the test. Yes, I did apply many clicks of left adjustment before shooting again. My first group was with the silencer off the rifle and the pellets hit low and right, even with the adjustment. But at 10 meters they don’t move that far so they were only three inches to the right of the aim point.
At 10 meters without the silencer the Gunnar put five Air Arms 16-grain domes into a 0.256-inch group. It’s low and right of the target.
Now I attached the silencer and shot a second five Air Arms 16-grain domes. The group moved 1-3/4-inches to the left and dropped another 1.5-inches. Five pellets went into 0.479-inches this time. From that I’m declaring that the Gunnar doesn’t like this silencer. I will shoot without it for the remainder of the test.
With the silencer on five Air Arms 16-grain domes made a 0.449-inch group at 10 meters.
Now I know that a five-shot group isn’t proof of much and 10 meters is too close, but I see a significant difference between the silenced and unsilenced rifle in these two groups. I have to cut corners somewhere and this is where I’m doing it.
The rest of the test will be without the silencer, which isn’t a problem because the Gunnar is reasonable quiet on its own. My kitty, Dale, laid down 10 feet from the muzzle for the rest of the test and didn’t complain.
After these two groups I adjusted the scope more to the left and also up.
JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
Next up were five JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets. They made a 0.051-inch group at 10 meters. Now — THAT’S a group! This is a pellet to test at longer range.
Five JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy pellets went into 0.051-inches at 10 meters. This is what I expected from the Gunnar.
Apolo Air Boss
I tried five Apolo Air Boss pellets next. They made a 0.129-inch group at 10 meters. That’s also a good one.
The Gunnar put five Apolo Air Boss pellets into 0.129-inches at 10 meters. This is another good one.
H&N Slug
Next I tried five H&N 0.218-inch 23-grain slugs. The Gunnar put them in 0.359-inches which is too large compared to the last two pellets.
The Gunnar put five H&N slugs into 0.359-inches at 10 meters. Compared with what we have seen, that’s too big.
H&N Baracuda 18
The next pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda 18. Five of them made a 0.224-inch group at 10 meters. That’s not bad, but it may be a little large.
Five Baracuda 18s went into 0.224-inches at 10 meters.
H&N Baracuda Match 5.53mm
The last pellet I tested was the H&N Baracuda Match with 5.53mm heads. Five of them went into 0.197-inches at 10 meters. That’s good enough to earn a spot in the 25-yard test.
Five Baracuda Match with 5.53mm heads made a 0.197-inch group at 10 meters.
Discussion
After all the targets were measured I realized that it was the heavier pellets that weigh 18 grains or more that did the best. Apparently the Gunnar likes them. That will help me structure the next accuracy test.
And this rifle does not like my Ronin silencer. I’ll leave that off next time.
Summary
I’ve never had a test that went like this one. The holes in my door jamb are a reminder that things don’t always go the way we expect.
Is the Gunnar accurate? It’s too soon to tell with just a 10-meter test and 5-shot groups. I still need to get back to 25 yards to let the rifle stretch its legs. But it is looking promising.
The bit with the silencer was a rude awakening, too. But at least I have recorded it so next time I will be ready.
B.B.
Do you have any other silencers? I think Donny’s are over-rated!
-Y
Yogi,
I own a licensed firearm silencer, but the threads are different and need an adaptor.
I have had good luck with this DonnyFL until now.
BB
Yogi,
I must ask…
What aspect(s) of DonnyFL silencers is/are overrated?
Also, do you own (use) at least one DonnyFL product?
shootski
In the last couple of months there have been some amazing groups shot with the newer airguns coming to market.
Do you know if the Gunnar and it’s barrel is made in the states, or imported from overseas?
Or is it assembled here with “globally sourced” parts?
Because someone (cough SMK I think) has figured out how to make very accurate barrels, and I think they are selling a ton of them to other companies….
Ian.
Ian,
I think it is made in Turkey like the rest of TFKAC’s top of the line air rifles.
P.S.: SMK? Accurate barrels? You have my attention.
I agree, about Turkey, if you look at the Gunnar, and squint, you can see some of the parent gun that didn’t have an AR style furniture.
Now for the SMK thought.
This is purely my opinion, and I have no proof other than the looks and the country of origin.
We know companies make the same base gun to many companies specs, and they all kinda look the same.
SMK made the Nova Vista, it shares a lot of parts that look like the Umarex Origin, and the AV Avenger.
And if you make an accurate barrel, it is not unheard of for companies to buy them and install them in their own guns rather than invest the millions in the machines to make their barrels in-house. (Lothar Walther, Green mountain and others)
Ian
Ian,
The Nova Vista Liberty IS the AV Avenger. The Nova Vista Freedom is the Seneca Aspen.
BB
Hold the silencer in your hand (not attached to the gun) and hold it up to some light then look through it. See if the baffles or whatever got nicked by a pellet.
Also you should try the silencer on another gun and shoot some groups and take the silencer off and shoots some groups and see if they are different.
That will be interesting if the gun shoots the same with or with out the silencer. If so then why is it changing how the Gunnar groups.
GF1,
That was the first thing I did. I can’t see any nicks.
BB
BB
I figured you did.
So your silencer works on other guns. Wonder why it changes on the Gunnar. Maybe they didn’t make the threads true to the barrel barrel on the Gunnar where the silencer screws on.
If so kind of a bummer for a high price gun like the Gunnar.
GF1,
I looked but the DonnyFL is so deep and dark I could be missing something. All I know is what happened when it was mounted.
BB
GF1,
I just looked again with a brighter light and, lo and behold, I see lead smeared on a couple baffles deep inside! So that was it. All the pellets probably didn’t touch — just a few. Good call!
BB
BB
Kind of thought that.
That then means the machining work they did on the Gunnar threads is off center a bit. Not good.
The only way to correct that wouldbe open up the diameter of the holes in the silencer. Again not good.
I know you mentioned the Gunnar was not really that loud without the silencer. That’s the way I would shoot it anyway. Without. Living in the unwonderfull state of Illinois.
Gunfun1,
Was just wondering if you had gotten to the point of trying to mount a Marauder trigger on your 362 yet? The trigger is the one and only hiccup I can find on the 362 platform so far.
Hope B.B. gets his hands on one soon!
BobF
Bob
Been crazy with different stuff in life going on for a while. I haven’t even shot for a bit over a week. And that is totally unheard of for me. I don’t know how long if forever that I didn’t shoot at least once a week. But yep got teeth yanked and dealing with dentures and my youngest daughter broke a tooth in half with some kind of hard candy and got to take her to the oral surgeon among other things going on.
But I’m going to say 100 % the Marauder rifle trigger will work if the 362 has the Discovery or Maximus trigger assembly.
But two things you won’t have a trigger gaurd with the trigger assembly change from a Marauder. And you will need a gen1 Marauder rifle trigger assembly. They changed mounting bolt locations on the Marauder rifle gen2 trigger assembly so it won’t work.
But the good news is that the last time I checked that Pyramid Air had the gen 1 Marauder rifle in stock. And they really ain’t that exspensive.
Bob
It’s supposed to say Marauder rifle trigger assembly’s available at PA. Not Marauder rifles.
BB,
I have a Diana Chaser pistol/rifle combo. The silencer is threaded, but glued, onto the barrel, but with a little heat and determination, it will come off and can be switched from one gun to the other. It’s a CO2 powered system and is .177 caliber and not as powerful as the gun you’re testing, so not apples to apples, but I found that the pistol WITH the silencer was, with quite a few pellets, as much as 66% more accurate at 12 yards than the same gun/pellet combo, sans silencer. The results with the longer rifle barrel was not as dramatic, but mostly was the opposite result. Better groups without the silencer. What do you think is the reason? Barrel harmonics? I don’t see how clipping the baffles would be an issue in my case. Actually, I don’t think there are even any baffles in the silencer. I think it’s more of a muzzle weight that is being marketed as a silencer because it looks “Cool”.
Half
Half,
I don’t know that I have ever seen that much of a difference, but I have seen silencers improve accuracy, too.
BB
Half
Read my reply right above to BB about the threads where the silencer screws onto the barrel on the Gunnar.
BB,
Interesting. Perhaps the barrel is floating in the shroud and when the weight of the Ronin is added to the end, the shroud “bends” enough to clip a baffle in the Ronin?
“My kitty, Dale, laid down 10 feet from the muzzle for the rest of the test and didn’t complain.”
B.B.,
I’m likely in the minority here, but as someone who has done cat rescue for many years, I’d say that whenever Dale Evans is sitting right in proximity to a test gun, perhaps you could snap a picture of her with it; and if the gun does well, she could give it a “paws up” rating. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Just my 2 cents,
dave
Dave,
I will take that into consideration. 😉
BB
Cool; she is one sweet kitty. 🙂
Dave,
She sure is.
BB
If she is anything like my cat Nashville, a paws up might be too much effort on her part.
But giving it a “nap approved while testing” rating is entirely within his abilities…
Ian,
That’s where Dale is. She likes to curl up into a ball and look cute, but for gosh sakes don’t touch her! Then she awakes to inform you that she is very aloof. In fact she will follow you around the house to show you just how aloof she can be! 😉
BB
BB
🙂
Yay for Dale Evans! 🙂
So the shroud mount is threaded, and when snugged up with the shroud, the shroud aligns with
threads on the mount, not the barrel. The plastic front shroud mount forces both shroud and barrel into alignment, but the barrel is not free floated anymore. The Prod uses this type of muffler/shroud. Suggestion to Crosman, save a few bucks and just use an oring for the rear shroud mount, toss the front shroud mount. The other thing, snug up the shroud on the rear mount, then undo it a quarter turn. But you still need to solve the prolem of aligning the shroud to the freefloated bore without imparting any stresses on the barrel. The fround shroud mount almost does that. I ended up using the bottle to mount my front shroud mount externally, it doesn’t move. My TKO has taken a few hits,
but it is rebuildable. It was a pain in the neck, but no more mystery holes in the wall, just the one I put there on purpose. Ha! Nice shooting Mr.
Best,
Rob
Rob
Crosman does use a rear o-ring on the shroud. What I have found is the end piece on the actual barrel needs to have a o-ring. It centers the barrel to the shroud. Also I have slid the barrel shroud and mount forward on Marauder’s to make it basically a free floating barrel and shroud assembly and put in additional baffles and had no centering problem at all.
Oh and the tko have instructions to say rotate the assembly to make no contact. So what good is the instruction if you done made contact. Sounds like a catch 22 to me. And no pun intended. 🙂
Yes, I know but I actually mod stuff, so sometimes you cant just bolt it on.
Example, the TKO is a larger diameter than the shroud, and it wont work with the bottle. Custom fit. Some times factory just wont work. I wanted a freefloated barrel, the diffuser had to go. Alignment is crucial tho, but now I just use velcro to hold the assembly snug tight to the bottle, plus the custom shim made out of plumbers epoxy putty I glued to the bottle.
Works like a champ. What I couldn’t get was a rod to put in the bore(brass?) so I can precision align it. I dont have a bore laser, just precision eyeballs, that arn’t so precision anymore!
A mini lathe would be neat. Aligning the sim, glueing it up was fiddly, fer sure. Crosman, put threads on the barrel. simple.
R
Rob
That sounds like to much variables to me.
Does it really need to be that dificult to quiet the gun?
And I’m very familiar with tko stuff.
Well it does because it’s only 5″ longer than a stock Prod but makes way more power on full hammerspring, but only about 24 shots at 880fps,
and no it doesn’t for 80 shots at 770. That’s if I overfill to 3.1K, I havn’t checked if the regulator has a high side limit, but he bottle is ok to 3.2K.
1stblue,
Yeah a Brass (glass or Lucite®) rod to check alignment would be a step in the right direction.
“What I couldn’t get was a rod to put in the bore(brass?)…”
But then you would need to true it every time before using it on a flat surface to be certain it hasn’t been bent since you last checked a bore/silencer alignment with it.
I know lots of folks like how Silencers look on their guns and yes they can reduce the report; but earplugs and earmuffs do it for less money (even the Stereo electronic models) with much less hassel too!
shootski
Rob
So you still have the factory shroud on the gun? If so I guess the silencer slips over the shroud or is the silencer threaded for what your setup is?
B.B. ad Readership,
I have a bit of experience over a number of decades with firearm and airgun silencers and want to share now that it is no longer so automatically a controversial a topic.
If you use(ed) an index mark (for timing purposes) on the barrel/shroud and the silencer end cap you have alignment information to work with to solve a clipping problem or better still avoid it altogether.
Set up is critical when mounting a silencer in my opinion. I would never mount a silencer to the shroud if at all possible; just too much chance of stacking misalignment. If you mount the can (silencer slang) you should be able to grab the barrel and can in your two hands and feel ZERO relative movement with firm bending action on multiple axis.
Now for a few technique tips. Once you have the silencer mounted do a visual inspection with a bore light. If you can shine the bore light/LASER from the chamber to and through the silencer look at the circle of light projected on a perpendicular white surface close to business end of the silencer ANY out of round of the projection should be sorted out before shooting.
The RONIN and other DonnyFL silencers are easily disassembled:
“Take apart in less than 10 seconds by unscrewing the rear end cap and pushing back the mono-core. No hex key or torch needed when you want to perform maintenance inside the unit.”
I don’t own a RONIN but wouldn’t describe the internals on my DonnyFL silencers as baffles (like on a Marauder or most firearm silencers) on any of mine.
shootski
Shootski
Ain’t that a shame that a person would have to go through all that.
At least we know why accuracy can be a problem with silencers.
Gunfun1,
Well you could pay a Gunsmith to do all that setup for you or you can pay the Finish Carpenter to fix your garage door’s jam ;^) i certainly am glad B.B. was only shooting a low powered .25 caliber!
Also, none of B.B.’s cats were harmed!
shootski
That gave me a good laugh—no cats were harmed for this blog.
However a door jamb suffered minor injury.
Ditto:)
Now FM does not feel so bad about putting a hole in the aluminum frame for the patio screen with the 38T a few months back…let’s keep this to ourselves, shall we? 😉
Shootski
True.
Gunfun1,
I know your pain, I feel your pain !!!!!!!! BobF + oral surgeon = bad memories. Enough said.
Don’t know if I want to go the Marauder route or not. My biggest problem is finding the correct spring balance between the first and second stages. No problem getting a nice clean 1 1/2 lb. second stage pull but then the first stage is probably around 02 or 03 oz. and I almost can’t feel it. What to me is a nice first stage pull makes me end up with a 04 lb. second stage pull. You can get both stages into a really nice shootable balance but then the safety becomes iffy in operation and just flops back and forth of its own free will. If the safety wasn’t a cross bolt and use the sear spring for tension ,life would be a whole lot easier.
Don’t know where this will post in the blog as it would not give me the option to reply to your last comment. It’s never done that to me before.
Hope those teeth are feeling better!
BobF
Bob
My teeth keep going back and forth. I feel good the next thing now is feels like getting poked by needles in different spots. I don’t like it.
But I can tell you this 100%. The Marauder rifle trigger gen1 or 2 adjust out very well. And also the Maraude pistol trigger adjusts out very well too. And you will never have to worry about the safety with the Marauder trigger assembly’s. They are a positive stop with no spring involved on the safety lever.
I know the Marauder trigger assembly is more money but they are really good. If they was the only air gun trigger available I would have no problem with that. And yes I have a FWB 300s that has a most fabulous trigger. The Marauder trigger isn’t a FWB 300s trigger but the Marauder triggers are very good for a sport gun trigger.
I like my Gen 1 Marauder trigger so much, I was thinking of puttig a clear acrylic cover, and inletting it into the stock, for looks, but the Prod trigger is pretty darn nice too.
Rob
1stblue,
Totally agree on the 1st Gen Marauder trigger!
shootski
Rob
Yep.
Bob
Just noticed this.
“But the good news is the last time I checked that Pyramid Air had the gen 1 Marauder rifle in stock. And they really ain’t that exspensive.
Suppose to say that Pyramid Air had the gen 1 Marauder rifle (trigger assembly) in stock. And they really ain’t that exspensive.
Gunfun1′
Kinda figured that’s what you meant. I’m really toying with the idea of just turning a new cross bolt that will be configured to completely bypass the need to be tensioned by the sear spring. A spring loaded pin from the back of the trigger guard would probably do the same tensioning and free up that sear spring to do only one thing—- regulate the sear weight like it’s supposed to. Like I said before, was able to get a really nice first and second stage once the pressure required to hold the safety was removed from the mix.
Besides, it will give me a chance to fire up the mill and lathe in the basement. Wasn’t this what I bought them for?
BobF
Bob
Yep and nice you have a mill and lathe at home. I was always going to get me some too. But always had access to the ones at work so never bought any. But just might before I retire pretty soon. I’ll have to see how it goes.
B.B.,
If you haven’t gotten in to your RONIN here is how: https://donnyfl.com/collections/accessories/products/emperor-v3-6-5-inch-extender
Just click on the UTube video and see how to pop out the core.
What you are calling baffles are more properly called wipes…but then this is an airgun silencer we are talking about so who knows what the Thingies should really be called. At least they aren’t Glowie too!
shootski