Hatsan Flashpup.
This report covers:
- Remember
- The goal
- The test
- JSB Exact Heavy
- Stopped the test
- Summary
Today’s report is one I don’t think I have ever written. If I have, it’s been a long, long time.
How ironic that yesterday’s report was all about how to enable folks and today I’m going to do the opposite. Un-enable? Disable?
Remember
I showed you in Part 3 that the pellets fired by the Hatsan Flashpup QE .177-caliber PCP I’m testing were hitting the inside of the silencer guts and becoming woefully inaccurate. When I removed the stuff inside the silencer the rifle became accurate.
The inside of the Flashpup silencer has two “hair curler” inserts. There is also a shorter clear plastic piece that’s not shown in this photo.
The muzzle cap of the Flashpup had two streaks of lead on opposite sides of the exit hole. They tell me pellets were bouncing back and forth inside the silencer on their way out. No wonder the groups were so large!
There were two streaks of lead on opposite sides of the Flashpup’s muzzle cap.
The goal
What I hoped to do today was show you all how the Flashpup silencer could be repaired. I have done this in this blog several times in the past and never has it failed — until today. Let’s take a look at how the Flashpup did.
The test
I shot the rifle from a sandbag rest from 10 meters. I had mounted a Hawke 4.5-14X42 Sidewinder scope with a half-mil-dot reticle that I sighted in with the first 4 shots. I shot 10-shot groups with each pellet.
Crosman Premier 10.5-grain dome
The first pellet I tested was the Crosman Premier 10.5-grain dome. It was also the pellet I used to sight in with.
In Part 3 The Flashpup put ten of these pellets into a 2.067-inch group at 10 meters. Yeah, I know that’s really bad. It alerted me right away that the rifle had a silencer alignment problem. Read Part 3 to see what I did about it.
Today ten of the Crosman Premier 10.5-grain domes went into 0.55-inches, with 8 in 0.262-inches. The only problem is the last two pellets are the ones that went wide. Does that suggest that something got in their way? I looked down the hole through the silencer all the way to the muzzle and it is still a huge clear tunnel.
At 10 meters ten 10.5-grain Crosman Premiers made a 0.55-inch group, with 8 in 0.262-inches.
JSB Exact Heavy
The second pellet I tested was the 10.34-grain JSB Exact Heavy. Ten of them made a 0.898-inch group in the Part 3 test. Today ten went into 1.677-inches. Yep, something is wrong again.
Today the Flashpup put ten JSB Exact Heavys into a 1.677-inch group at 10 meters. The four holes on the left are the last four pellets fired.
Stopped the test
At this point I ended the test. I had planned to shoot all four pellets from the Part 3 test, but when I saw what was happening I figured it was no use. After all, when a rifle acts like this do we really want to know if it will shoot accurately with any one pellet? Aren’t we really more interested to see whether it’s accurate with most pellets?
Several readers have suggested that I should act like all of you might if you got a rifle like this. You would return it to Pyramyd AIR and request a new one. I have done that and Pyramyd AIR is sending me a replacement. It is also a .177 rifle like this one, so everything remains the same.
Summary
This is a short report, but we have done a significant thing for the evaluation of the Hatsan Flashpup. We get to see whether this example is unique or if a second one has the same issues. That takes courage and I applaud Pyramyd AIR for allowing it to happen.
Tom,
It’s good to know when to throw in the towel and start anew. This does show that you don’t get a cherry picked example to try out for the blog.
Siraniko
B. B.
I am really anxious to see if the Omnia will need that towel also…
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier), the last sentence puzzles me a little, you see, instead of allowing a courageous exchange, I would have expected to read that someone at Pyramydair suggested, if not insisted on, trying another Hatsan Flashpup QE. Hmm…
Anyway, I hope the replacement proves to be a more precise airgun! 🙂
3hi,
Many moons ago that might have happened, when PA was still a “small” company. They have grown immensely. A good number of their present employees have probably never handled an airgun previously. I doubt that someone at PA reads every blog and all of the comments and understands what is going on. They probably should.
We are most fortunate that they still support BB and this blog. Someone there likely realizes that this is their best advertisement.
Thanks RidgeRunner for the explanation. 🙂
Something so sad had not occurred to me. 🙁
An expression I frequently come across, here in France, is: ‘[the item of interest] has become a victim of it’s own success’, which of course is like ‘Hurrah for empty shelves!’ 🙂
So, ‘Pyramydair has become a victim of it’s own success!’ in this instance, I would take to mean, ‘Hurrah for ignoring individual customers’. 🙁
hi3,
Several people at Pyramyd AIR read the blog every day. But they also do not tell me what to do. They trust that I have both their and your best interests at heart.
I was told when this blog began in March of 2005 that it was mine to do with as I saw fit. So far that hasn’t changed.
BB
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) that is so good to hear! 🙂
Do you know of any Pyramydair employees who not just read but also comment?
By the way, I absolutely agree with RidgeRunner’s valuation of this blog!
To me, this blog is you. 🙂
With Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) authoring the daily articles and hosting and moderating the ensuing comments, it’s value is priceless. 🙂
Lucky is, whoever gets to support this blog! 🙂
JSB Exact Heavy
Photo caption
Today the Flashpup pit (put) ten JSB Exact Heavys…
RR,
Fixed it. Thanks,
BB
B.B.
You last 2 sentences say, “We get to see whether this example is unique or if a second one has the same issues. That takes courage and I applaud Pyramyd AIR for allowing it to happen.”
They “sold” defective mechanise, darn tooting they will exchange it! Otherwise, get Elizabeth Warren on the line….lol.
-Yogi
Tom and Everyone,
Off-topic, although definitely air gun related — have any of you used Loctite Purple? It is to be used for fasteners that need to be loosened periodically but which tend to vibrate open. I’ve read about it twice on guitar forums. It seems to be helpful preventing the frustration of all electric guitarists, constantly loosening jack nuts where their cords are inserted.
Michael
Some firearms optics call for its use for the small fine thread screws, most recently on the mount for an optic on a Glock 19. I have also used Vibra-Tite VC-3 for small screws that need to be adjusted without being fully tightened down. Vibra-Tite looks and smells like fingernail polish but is sticky and gooey. It can sometimes be found at a hobby shop, but its much easier to order it from Amazon.
Bmwsmiley,
That VC-3 is very pricey ($2.30/ml) in comparison to a product like Loctite ($0.34/ml) that I’ve been using for ever.
I’m not familiar with that product, is it worth 6 times the price?
Thanks,
Hank
When the fastener cannot be snugged down and is very small it is an absolute necessity. A small bottle will last a very long time. I have had mine for over 15 years and typically find a use for it about once or twice a year.
Hank,
The Loctite Purple is about $1.50 per ml everywhere I look.
Michael
bmwsmiley,
Thanks for showing me this. I’ll try to find a few reviews of it, although your review right here makes it pretty tempting by itself! :^) From your photo I see it’s in a bottle with an applicator attached to the cap. That’s a plus to me as the Loctite Purple comes in a simple tube.
I have had good luck with Loctite Red and Blue, but I think at $1.50 a ml the Purple is a bit pricier.
Hmmm.
Thanks for your input.
Michael
Michael,
One problem you may encounter with it is that it is Thixotropic. Strong enough vibrations and shear will cause it to revert to a more viscous form which is good for adjusting and removal but if the vibration threshold is met the Jack Nuts and other fasteners will be able to turn.
You need to go to the Henkle page: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en.html
and read the product Data Sheets to figure out if type will meet your needs.
shootski
shootski,
Thanks very much for that. I will check it out at length tomorrow.
Michael
Michael,
Yes, I have a bottle of Loctite 222 that I’ve been using on small fasteners in my R/C airplanes and such. It’s dry when cured. Fasteners stay put and you can take them apart when you need to. It’s perhaps a short step below Blue Loctite in holding power. Enjoy your music, I wish I could get myself to practice enough to be able to play a guitar.
Best regards,
Will
Will,
Thanks for your comment. The uses I am thinking of are things where I can tighten very nearly as tight as it needs to be just by hand, but even with a tool, they just don’t stay for long.
If it’ll help to hear, I got away from picking up a guitar to play for more than maybe 20 minutes a week for a few years, and I lost all facility on it. Then I retired, and with Covid keeping me indoors. I started to play perhaps 1/2 hour a day just informally on the sofa (no practice routine or anything, just noodling). After two weeks my wife commented how much I had improved! I realized she was right. I started to play just one hour a day (again, just noodling while the TV is on) and after a month I had regained most of my ability. Granted, I was never Jeff Beck or anything, but that much improvement with such a small time investment really encouraged me.
I’ve been doing that for a little over a year now, and I intend to work up to 2 hours a day, again, just random playing, not organized practicing. I have a reasonable expectation that I’ll get back to about where I was at my best decades ago.
For what it’s worth, my advice is you should play a half hour a day for two weeks and see how much that little does to improve your playing. I wish I had recorded my first sofa session to compare with later progress. You might consider that. I am currently shopping for a cheapo cassette recorder on the big auction site.
Michael
Michael,
Don’t shop for a cheapo cassette recorder.
Possibility 1, if you really want to work with cassettes:
Shop for a high quality but obsolete cassette deck, and check your local second-hand stores as well as auction sites. Carry a blank tape, a good-quality recording, a mic (1/4″audio jack), and headphones, so you can check anything you find. The units with noise reduction should give you near-CD quality for $25 or maybe $50.
Many years ago, when I was teaching Speech Science before digital audio got cheap, I had a small pile of good quality cassette decks in my office to lend to undergraduates who needed to do audio recording for acoustic analysis. Whenever the pile ran out and I needed to lend someone my own calibrated and de-noised deck, I made a trip to a couple of second-hand stores and spent another $30 or so. Thus the pile grew to match the demand.
Possibility 2, the way I’d do it now:
Audacity (https://www.audacityteam.org/) is excellent free audio recording and editing software. It will probably do more tricks than you need, but you can set it up as a simple recorder.
Your laptop has a built-in mic and digital audio that is probably pretty bad. Download Audacity and record yourself using it and see what you think. (Use headphones or reasonable external speakers, of course.) Fortunately, USB external upgrades are cheap and can provide a very large improvement.
Possibility 2a, if the audio playback is OK and only the recording is bad:
Buy an external USB mic. Amazon has the Samson SAGOMIC Go Mic Portable USB Condenser Microphone for $32. I see lots of $20 USB mics that are probably fine, but I own a Go Mic and I can be confident it would work for your purposes.
Possibility 2b, if both playback and recording are bad:
Buy an inexpensive USB audio interface. Again, lots of choices; you’ll want to pick something that has connectors to match mics, headphones, or speakers you already have. For a sample, Amazon has the Audio-Technica ATR2x-USB Audio Adapter with 3.5 mm audio-out and mic jacks for $25. Again, I own this one, and it made a huge improvement on my laptop’s audio out.
Of course you can spend thousands on mics or audio interfaces if you want, but I’m applying the “good enough” principle that I urged on my students.
Feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk details: cardenguy at gmail dot com.
Cheers,
Guy
Guy,
I got a Tascam digital multitrack as a Black Friday deal a few years ago, but I am not into recording, frankly. I just wish to gauge my progress (providing there is any) by listening to a few minutes every couple weeks and comparing them to the previous two weeks.
For music listening, I am pretty old school. I still have a turntable and even a CD player that I don’t use much anymore. I have transferred most recordings to a Revox 10 1/2 inch open reel (reel-to-reel). I was briefly a radio disc jockey in my late teens and got used to open reel. All of my amplifiers are 100% tube, too. A while back I started getting into single-ended Class A triodes.
Michael
Michael,
Oh my. You’re ahead of me on audio, I see.
I also have a nice reel-to-reel recorder, but I’m afraid I use it only as a sound source for digitizing archival language recordings. Does work fine, though.
Cheers,
Guy
Guy,
I think technology-wise you are FAR ahead of me in audio. I am completely befuddled by computer-recording and computer-based audio. My nephew and brother-in-law make me feel awfully old with their streaming audio systems and in my nephew’s case, digital studio with Impulse Response software and such. I try to listen to them when they talk about it all, and my head swims.
I did finally get my brother-in-law to take the tube amp plunge with his hi-fi, so his streaming source material does make its way through good old 1940s-era amplification technology on its way to his speakers.
Michael
Michael,
No, I think anybody who can hear the difference between amplifier types wins.
I did have a college roommate who ended up designing amplifiers professionally, so I retain some bragging rights.
If you want an example of successfully doing something analog that is much easier to do digital, look at Bell Labs’ original sound spectrograph (1946) — oh boy that is clever stuff.
I have strayed a long way from airguns.
Cheers,
Guy
I have no idea how old my small tube of blue Locktite is. I’ve used it on scope mount screws on high recoil air rifles since I got into the sport as well as stock mounting screws (in addition to Harley fasteners, my Yamaha XS650) and lately, the battery terminals on my 2016 Indian Scout which have an annoying habit of loosening up and, I think, preventing the bike’s computer from shutting down completely at ride’s end, resulting in a dead battery the next day.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
Fred,
Good point about how long a tube of these products last the typical user. Maybe I shouldn’t think about just a few dollars more if it’ll last years regardless.
Michael
Have no issues with Turkish-made airguns as do not own any, but seems – this based entirely on anecdotal evidence FM has been exposed to – these have more than average quality/reliability/shootability issues? Also “hear” quite a few complaints about service and support from the manufacturer(s) when something does go wrong. The jury is still out in FM court when it comes to airguns from that part of the world. Maybe smart people working for those companies will listen to the customers, understand and take action to make things better.
First, let me say I am Pyramyd AIR fan boy. They have always treated me fairly. Every thing I have purchased has arrived on time and well packaged. I didn’t realize how long I’ve been reading Tom’s column until the other day when he wrote about leaving co2 capsules in guns. In June of 2015 Tom wrote a review of the Gamo PR776 revolver. I wanted a double action revolver and after reading his post I bought one. I love the pistol. I still have it and it still shoots like a charm. Thank you sir. Now, about the Flash pup. I read reviews so I wasn’t surprised when there were problems. There are 108 reviews. 68 are 5 stars. 40 are 4 stars and below. That is 43% of the reviews where there was some sort of problem. As long as this gun has been on the market, It seems to me Hatsun would have addressed some of these issues. I know a four hundred dollars is not a lot of money for a pellet rifle but Hatsun isn’t doing themselves any favors and they are wasting Pyramyd Air’s time. Time is money.
B.B.,
“I keep picking this thing up! Hatsan is gonna have a restraining order filed against me. Every time I pick it up it feels light and perfect. Oh, please don’t also be hyper-accurate! BB’s becoming a hoarder of airguns.”
B.B. do i need all that PCP STUFF? Why no Grasshopper you can get by with a hand pump or one of the newer small compressors!
“The Flash(y)pup fills to 200 bar which is ideal — none of this 3600 psi or higher pressure…”
Does it have a decent Bullpup trigger?
“the first Quattro trigger I have felt that actually felt good! And did I mention that the rifle is light and feels great? Enable, enable…”
Wait! “…STIFF…”
Does the Hatsan Flashypup QE hit what you aim at?
The Flashypup can’t hit the inside of a Toy Barn at 10 meters! EVEN with the Silencer guts all over Tom’s house it, A PCP, still can’t achieve better than five or so MOA.
SPEND ONCE CRY ONCE! For about two to three times the cost and way less than 1/10th the aggravation you can buy a PCP that will shoot MOA or better to at least 150 meters!
“So, my fine young padawans, have we learned anything? Whatever might have caused the Flash(y)pup to be so inaccurate?”
YUP!
Delay GRATIFICATION for a few months. Save those coins and buy what works from a manufacturer that answers your questions, provides training (videos) and has a great track record!
shootski
PS: GRUMBLE, Grumble, grumble…
Grumble,
You’re gonna love tomorrow’s report! 🙂
BB
B.B.,
I will GRUMBLE until at least tomorrow, Lol!
shootski
“For about two to three times the cost and way less than 1/10th the aggravation you can buy a PCP that will shoot MOA or better to at least 150 meters”
This Hatsan is already $100 past the $300 price point PCP; three times would be $1200!! That PCP needs to fill itself, reload magazines, set up and break down my shooting area and targets as well!!! Cooking and dishes would be a plus.Yes, I want fries with that. ;P
Edit: Thinking about it some more, what are good recommendations at the 2x and 3x price points?
Plus 7% sales tax also.
MisterAP,
Only PA but it will give you a starting point: /air-guns/rifles?brands=12,336,31,41,109&pp=4&pr=1000_0T1600_0
More out there.
shootski
PS: not every rifle but many are what i was thinking while i GRUMBLED.
You would need to decide what exactly YOU like and for what YOUR going to use it for.
Shootski
And when you want to exchange this “expensive” item you realize that quality brings your money back. El cheapos? Naah, I doubt it.
Bill,
Well said!
shootski
Shootski,
I bought one of these when they first came out and at that time, this was the only PPPCP on the market. I got a synthetic stock .177 for less than $300.
Mine is a champ and I was expecting Tom’s to be as well.
I knew from reviews that Hatsans roll out of the factory as generally solid guns, if a little less refined than their higher end competitors. And even with some of the early production problems they had (bad magazines, sharp-edged bolt probes that cut the breech o-rings, etc.) I had developed a sense from other Hatsan owners that these big, heavy-ish guns could always be made to shoot. I’m talking about all of the Hatsan PCP line. Hunting rigs more than a showroom pieces.
I have always thought of mine like a work truck. It is a reliable performer. I can run over a few curbs and back into the garbage cans and it isn’t going to care a bit. Maybe the mileage leaves something to be desired compared to a Prius, but I can’t fix a Prius with a Pocket knife and bubble gum to get me lhome.
ProfSteelToe,
You won the draw and got a gun you like and allows you to be contented.
We can all hope for the same result for the replacement B.B. gets on his next draw.
shootski
Great review as always, Tom. True to form, buying a Hatsan is a crapshoot, pun intended. You never know if you’re gonna get one with a good barrel. If you do, then you got lucky because good luck trying to get Hatsan USA to do anything about it. At least when I order from PA, Midway USA, UAG, I know I’ll get good service. – Mike
Guess another way of putting it is that buying a Hatsan is like opening a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re going to get.
Good one !
FawltyManuel, do you mean that sometimes they’re like a Hazlenut Whirl? Yum… 🙂
B.B. and Everyone
Off topic but in case some of you have any interest in the Harper’s Ferry pistol there’s something that you may want to know. Just give me a sign and Tom’s permission.
Yes please Bill, I would like know, what about the Harpers Ferry pistol requires an invitation… 🙂
Hi3
Thank you for the official invitation.
The story is that Pedersoli made the correct cap and ball conversion using the proper. 54 cal smooth bore barrel but the flintlock has a rifled one in. 58 which is wrong caliber but correct about the rifling. It seems there actually was a rifled version, officers’ probably, but in . 54. Recently Pedersoli made a special batch for certain clientele with rifled barrels in the correct. 54 cal, with percussion lock. Some five of them can be found at http://www.wojoczek.com/ in case you’re interested.
I don’t know if Pedersoli will make it standard option but the story of this small production batch was confirmed to me directly by their customer service rep.
Bill,
Along the same line here is a you build it kit for the Pedersoli Harpers Ferry flintlock, kinda cool. https://muzzle-loaders.com/products/pedersoli-harpers-ferry-pistol-kit-58-cal-flintlock-k-320-58
Mike
Mike
This is exactly the same as the completely assembled flintlock model. It also has the wrong caliber barrel. With that “small production” model I found one could have an exact copy of the original by changing the lock from percussion to flintlock.
Bill, you may be interested to know that the seller of the Sig ASP that Ian found below is a fellow Greek.
Roamin Greco,
I’m Rich! …a least on paper.
Beware of Austrian-Americans bearing SIG AIR Arms as gifts or auction items ;^)
shootski
Bill that’s indeed an interesting reply! 🙂
I imagine this kind of historical accuracy detail would be important for, for example, someone who participates in reenactment. 🙂
pictured below is my latest blackpowder pistol that I have not even shot yet…
Flash sale!
A sig Asp20 wood stock on eBay.
22 hours left..
Not mine, but current bid is $909.
I am watching just to see how hi it will go.
Ian..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIG-SAUER-ASP20-22-Air-Rifle-Wood-Stock-with-SIG-Whiskey-3-ASP-scope/266181607722?hash=item3df9a9012a:g:ZdYAAOSwwzhkGN7s&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAwEd9zXZMGoV+Nm/EeCByaHCGZWmbF8tuiJpdr/3YBaPCR7uXV59E/APvsArBwXoHPFpDXzKvxM7uEoFwdAANduD3VCcXXxv+RHPTh1ivTiguhcmkENcb+h8JJX7BJE2q4hz/3qPc/4jJ75Ik6A4jq3qPa8Hy7XCcBybSdQjy5+ZXRJ1u52ZvTckofB3qjykGWd6l8gCz3pu4e0qqa/+pvsuclAw+l1QvelcwL5mPzh8HI9Mw/JnRbS9ej7LjwBfoCQ==%7Ctkp:Bk9SR87v1_nlYQ&pageci=888fec4a-f7a5-4f7a-b040-649c973965e0&redirect=mobile
This one recently ended at over $1000.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266178444199
The airgun fund is very low right know. I have to sell some things but I kind of like what I got right now.
R. G.
I can fully understand your thoughts. Besides I couldn’t justify another gas ram next to the HW 90.