by B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan’s new 125TH breakbarrel is a large, powerful spring-piston air rifle.
Today will be something different for many of you. This Hatsan 125TH air rifle combo I’m testing is more than just a test of one new gun. It’s really a test of the Hatsan trigger, the SAS, the scope mounting rail and the potential accuracy of Hatsan air rifles in general. So this is an interim step toward the goal of discovering if this air rifle can shoot.
We saw the potential accuracy with open sights in the last report; but as I noted, the front sight is too big for the notch in the rear. The accuracy wasn’t as good as I believe it can be.
I mounted the scope and rings that came with the combo. The two-piece rings were attached to the scope, but they weren’t spaced correctly to engage the cross-slots in the rifle’s scope rail, so I loosened the caps and adjusted them after installing both rings on the rail. It took only a couple minutes, and Hatsan included the one Allen wrench that I needed, so it was no trouble.
I needed to position the scope as far to the rear as it would go to get the correct eye relief, so the fact that the rings had to be moved wasn’t a problem. They would have been moved in any case. Although the rings are thin two-screw cap rings, they seem to be strong enough for the lightweight scope that came in the package.
The scope was mounted back as far as it would go to get the correct eye relief. The scope rail pushes the scope further forward by design, so consider that when buying a different scope.
The scope
The scope in this package is not one you will want to use — even for a little while. The parallax is fixed at long range; and no matter how low you adjust the power, the image seems fuzzy and indefinite. And that’s the heart of today’s report, because I could’t even shoot as well with this scope as I did with the less-than-optimum open sights in Part 3.
However, I went through the trouble of sighting-in the rifle with this scope just to see things like the barrel droop. And it did droop, though not as much as I thought it was going to. At 10 feet, the pellet was hitting about seven inches below the aim point. After adjusting the reticle about 100 clicks up, I got on target. There was room left to adjust, and the erector tube did not feel as though it was floating. As I said, the aiming was so indefinite that I felt the scope wasn’t doing the rifle justice.
But I did not waste any time testing multiple pellets with this scope. I used only Beeman Kodiaks for sight-in and, after confirming the gun was sighted but the scope wasn’t helping, I decided to end the test.
Not real great, is it? This 10-shot, 25-yard group with Beeman Kodiaks tells me everything I needed to know about the rifle at this point. It measures 2.186 inches between centers.
Shooting behavior
The trigger seems to be smoothing out as the test progresses. That agrees with what some owners have said about the Quattro trigger, so we may see an improvement over the first thousand shots. Other spring guns have such improvements, which is why it’s often good to withhold judgement until a couple tins of pellets have gone through the gun.
It also felt as though the cocking effort had dropped significantly. In Part 2, I measured it at 51 lbs. But when I measured it for this report, the effort required to cock the rifle had dropped to 45 lbs. A six-pound decrease is very substantial!
Where to now?
Okay, why did I stop the test with just one 10-shot group? Simple — the rifle was not doing well because I wasn’t able to see the target. There’s no sense shooting any more pellets with this scope, so I stopped.
I also now know that this rifle does, indeed, suffer from a drooping barrel. The next scope I mount will be mounted to take care of that problem from the beginning. I’ll also mount a relatively good scope (i.e., one with bright optics and a fine reticle) to give the rifle every benefit of the doubt.
Don’t get discouraged from this test. As I said at the beginning, it’s an interim test. We’re by no means finished with this rifle, yet. But it’s useless to waste time when you can clearly see there is a problem, which is what I learned today. With another better scope, we’ll return and complete the test. Only then will we know if the Hatsan 125TH in .177 caliber is an air rifle to choose.
This sounds like a gun that requires serious commitment, not unlike those of marriage vows (… in sickness and in health, etc.). It’s a partner that you’ve got to be supremely patient and loving with. It’s one that grows and improves with you, because your willing to help it along. It’s a rifle that test’s your real level of maturity. It requires courage, real effort, and fairness. If only air-gun retailers offered annulments, in addition to warranties.
B.B. It’s funny. I so want this gun to be a winner. I have never own a Hatsan or shot one. So I have nothing to gain or lose by the outcome of this exhaustive test. Something about it makes me want to see it exceed in the accuracy dept. However, it seems to be fighting you every step of the way. I commend you for your patience in giving this Hatsan every chance. Maybe with a clear scope? We shall see.
Titus
Titus,
This isn’t my kind of air rifle, to be sure. In the past I have not taken the time to get to know these powerful magnum springers the way I should have, and I know there are many folks who love them. So this time I’m putting myself in their shoes.
B.B.
I too had high hopes for the Hatsan line. Even if this flops, maybe their version of the TX200 will be halfway decent.
Ridgerunner,
This one isn’t over yet. I think it will do okay with a better scope.
B.B.
Disappointing, although I suspected the “included” scope was going to be a problem. It was probably the cheapest thing that was on sale when they put the package together…
/Dave
/Dave,
Yep, the scope that came with the rifle is a real tent peg. We’ll see if a better scope improves things.
B.B.
BB, that looks like the old Powerline 3-9×32 scope that’s been a favorite of Daisy’s combo packages for a while. I have several of them myself. You’re right about the parallax issue, but that can easily be fixed by fiddling with the objective lens as per that blog you did way back.
But with regards to the fuzziness… sorry if this is a stupid question, but did you try adjusting the eyepiece? I never had one that I couldn’t focus reasonably well…
Vince,
Yes, I did adjust the eyepiece first thing. I had to, because I was seeing a double reticle. Now the reticle is sharp, but the target is fuzzy. This may just be a random bad scope.
B.B.
There’s nothing wrong with the rifle, the scope is trash…Period! What have here, is operator hangups…Hatsan Arms improvements on their airgun line are solid, and well thought! The other two Turkish manufactures also have greatly improve their current line up as well. You get plenty of premium features, accurate barrel, and etc for a fair price. So if your on the fence, get over it and buy (you will be happy!)
The other day I was informed by Hatsan USA that all parts including wear items like mainspring and seal cannot be sold to end consumers. This was imposed by their liability insurance carrier. All maintenance and warranty work must entail customer shipment to Hatsan USA in AR. As with just about all air rifle manufactures, opening the rifle’s internals violates the warranty.
Mark,
That’s good to know. I was unaware of that policy, though it isn’t that different from other manufacturers. Only Crosman goes out of their way to help air gunners modify their guns.
B.B.
Mark,
I have no problem with voiding warranty if a gun is opened or altered by a customer. I fully stand behind this policy. However, refusing to sell parts to a customer because of some silly insurance liability clause is unacceptable. If this is true, I would avoid that product.
I also feel insulted that such bad scopes are included in a combo. How can we combat that?
-Chuck
I have no problem with voiding warranty if a gun is opened or altered by a customer. I fully stand behind this policy. However, refusing to sell parts to a customer because of some silly insurance liability clause is unacceptable. If this is true, I would avoid that product.
I also feel insulted that such bad scopes are included in a combo. How can we combat that?
-Chuck
I agree we open a rifle, you void the warranty thats as it should be. Unfortunately no business can operate without liability insurance. There is no way the fellow who is putting up his own financial butt on the line to create Hatsan USA wanted this absurd restriction. Like yourself it only matters to us who want to deburr & lube (The MOD 95 I opened had a dry spring like a Diana by the way) and repair wear items. The vast majority of customers send out their rifles for repair anyway. The CEO of Hatsan USA had a choice and choose to make it work as best he could.
As far as the scope, on the 95 I broke the front lens free and focused it to 10 yards and stuck it on a friends short range plinker. Like the Crosman Titan OEM non AO scopes they are a doorstop.
I strongly agree with what Chuck said.. While liability insurance is a fact of life if you run a business(I know, as I pay plenty of it for little benifit, except to compenstate stupid in the event stupid exercises his God given right to hone his skills) there must be ways to work around it. How about a disclaimer worded by a clever team of lawyers perhaps? Even though most of the airgun market does not tune or repair their guns, the ones that do, are serious airgunners who due to the internet, set the tone for a lot of that market. If the manufacturer cannot, or will not, provide parts to repair their guns and the guns exihibit quality issues that this one seems too, doesn’t that reinforce the notion that many airguns are throw aways, and should be treated as such? IMO, this is why some airguns have a hard time being accepted by mainstream shooters who expect their stuff to work when brand new ,including that scope packaged with this unit. Crosman is able to work around the parts issue, except for the gas rams which they won’t sell .I suspect that is because they will end up in their competitors products, not because someone would hurt themselves installing one in a Gamo for instance? Personally, the parts deal will now cause me to cross Hatsan off the list of affordable airguns to tinker with , along with the Gamo products as I have already done so, years ago.
Robert. Interesting about you not being able to buy Crosman gas rams in the U.S.A One of the three major on-line dealers has just this month (March 1 ), offered two models of genuine Crosman gas rams. One for the XL, and one for the Trail series. Maybe they have changed their policy down below the 49th. too.
Titus
That is ” One of the three main dealers on Canada”. sorry.
Titus
Robert, I have several Crosman gas rams I bought direct. I did have a hard time getting one for the import C7 Titan as they didn’t have it in the database till recently. It helps to scrounge up a schematic and use Crosman’s own number, but if they have it in stock they have always sent them. I know many others have bought springs as well, so you may want to try again.
Hi Mark …
I am going to walk out on some very thin ice here, and make a comment based on information that might just be old. Things change, but I have no information that something like this has changed.
My understanding is that a manufacturer is not required to offer a warranty; if he offers a warranty, it cannot be a total/complete warranty – it must be a “limited” warranty, and, once offered, the customer cannot void the warranty through “normal use for which it was intended” or “replacement of warranted parts with 3rd party parts”. I have had some experience as the Warranty Manager in a good sized business.
However, where things go sour is when a manufacturer assumes that an owner is incompetent and the 3rd part parts are substandard, and either one of the two has created the failure of whatever it is that required the warranty. Once warranty coverage is denied, the burden of proof (and the costs associatead with providing the proof) more or less falls on the shoulders of the owner when it should be the other way around. Also I have never heard of a manufacturer providing any coverage for the 3rd party part that replaced a covered part.
However, the issue you referenced was a manufacturer offering a warranty and then requiring that the item be returned to the manufacturer under all circumstances as any other attempt to repair it would void that warranty. It is my understanding that this is not the case. Sadly, manufacturers understand very well that sometimes the cost of being right far exceeds the cost of giving up the warranty. For example, would you take a manufacturer to court over warranty coverage for a $100 item? It could cost that much or more just to take time away from your work to go to court.
In the states where I have lived, issues like these fall under the Department of Consumer Protection. On one state, DCP was a part of the Attorney General’s Office and in another it fell into the Agriculture Department (Well, it has to go somewhere, I guess.) I also suspect that this whole subject of “warranty” is one of the most irritating subjects to consumers and so I am as sure as I can be that there is a web site for the Consumer Protection people in every state and I’ll bet you find this subject addressed on each one. I’d start with the State Attorney General’s Office and look for Frequently Asked Questions.
NRS
I have no issue with the warranty, as I and others have stated when you choose to open a rifle with most if not all manufactures you will loose your warranty. The issue is part availability to the customer for a still in production item. Hatsan USA was required by their liability insurance carrier to offer no parts to the consumer. This is during and *after* warranty, from breach seal to butt pad. You want something on your $150 that you cant get aftermarket you have to send it to Hatsan USA.
Crosman on the other hand is much closer to the old Sears model. You can order a part to repair yourself, or you can take it to a service center for repair. You have the choice. Crosman isn’t perfect in that they don’t claim and don’t always have all parts in stock but if they do they send it at a very reasonable cost. They also are quick to offer to have it sent back as well.
In answer to gas springs from Crosman, I have half a dozen at home and they have never questioned an order. What I couldn’t get was the light spring for the C7 low velocity Titan until recently (Not in stock), now I have 4 of them (I’m in California). In general their import rifles like the Titan are not as well supported as those made in NY.
B.B.,
Next time you need a gun broken in, ship it to me, and I’ll break it in for as long as you like; a week, a month, 6 months, whatever. When you’re ready, I’ll just ship it back to you.
Victor
B.B.
No wonder that Hatsan performs like… Hatsan.
It has a reputaton of unsafe inaccurate powerhouse – a true “noobgun” and “bucketbuster” with everything that comes with it – rough working cycle, low quality metal. Maybe they offer better-made rifles for US market, but here its reputation is spoiled forever.
Since their first appearance on Russian and Ukraine markets triggers improved a bit from the safety point of view, but still they tend to wear out too quick and have usatisfying quality of working surfaces and angles on their sears. The worst thing of all are their barrels – “grater” surfaces and “wavy” drilling. I held about 20-25 Hatsans in my hands in 3 years – both “old” and “new” series (different trigger mechanism), and they had all the same flaws, their barrels. Pellet pushed by the cleaning rod through Hatsan’s barrel tells the whole truth – varying force on the way and unstable rifling marks on the exit.
Their engineers (if there are any) seem not to know how to design an airgun, working only “more volume, more spring, same cheap” way. However, there’s one good thing about Hatsans – they have quite nicely made and seems to be well-tempered pistons, but just don’t ask about their seals 🙂
Again, it may be that Hats made for US market are better than those encountered here, but honestly I doubt that.
duskwight
duskwight,
I’m sorry to hear that about them. It sounds like they use hammer-forged barrels that are produced too fast.
B.B.
Looks to be a lot of lipstick on this one…
Robert from Arcade,
That’s hilarious! Lots of lipstick!
But seriously! Why go through all that trouble to make a product look and sound good, and not bother to actually make it good? What kind of thinking is that?
Victor
Victor,
What’s cheaper? Wearing a toupee or getting hair plugs? Putting on makeup or getting plastic surgery? Dressing up a gun with geegaws or making a quality barrel, stock, scope & trigger?
Edith
Victor,
It’s marketologist’s kind of thinking 😉
Majority of this kind of airguns consumers are errr… well, they know that m/s are great, “tack-tick-cool” look looks cool and they know that airguns are fun to blast empty bottles or brag about pierced bars. So, market offers them exactly what they want – “bucketbusters”.
duskwight
I was thinking I might add a hatsan rifle to my collection but given a poor scope, poor iron sights and drooping barrel, and generally poor target results I have thought better of it. It seems to me quality is suffering in it and will wait until quality improves. I think this review saved me from a costly mistake.
Hi B.B.,
Since you don’t seem to mind going off topic, I have a question for you about scopes. I recently ordered an Air Venturi Bronco and, though it has nice open sights, I am still inclined to put a scope on it for shooting at about 20-25 yards. I was looking at this product: UTG 3-9×50 AO Rifle Scope
The fact that the objective lens is 50mm across appeals to me greatly, since I have difficulty with scopes that don’t let enough light through. However, I am wondering if you think this scope is overkill for a gun the size of the Bronco.
Lee,
I don’t think it is overkill at all, though many shooters would. They would complain that with the Bronco’s short range, why would you need 9 power? I would answer them, “To shoot the grasshopper in the head instead of the thorax.” That is the difference between someone who has only hunted and someone (me) who has competed in field target.
B.B.
In my case it would be shooting wasps, but I get the idea. Thanks for the insight!
Wow one Hatsan rifle reviewed and the whole company is already being killed.
I own two Hatsan rifles and you guys had me digging up my old Hatsan Mod. 40 springer. It is a bit crude but it still works fine after years of use and a loooooong storage. I can still hit what I’m aiming at with it. It’s no Bronco or German rifle but for what I paid for it it’s not bad, it’s on par with the new “Beeman” rifles that are in fact Marksman rifles, in fact I think it’s better, better finish, better sights and about the same so-so trigger.
My other Hatsan is a PCP, the one in the link exactly but in a 500fps (the pin in the valve is a little bit larger so less air is going thru the valve) :
/product/hammerli-pneuma-elite-10-air-rifle?m=2442
I can get sub quarter inch group all day at 10M, with the first pellet I tried (I haven’t tried any other yet, it’s COLD outside). The build quality in the rifle and the pump is pretty good.
Now to be fair I wouldn’t buy that rifle even if I could and I wouldn’t use it if it was given to me, I just don’t like magnum springers. For me springers are nice lower power airguns, if you want more power get a multi-pump or even better get a PCP, maybe if I tried a TX200 I would change my mind but I prefer the smooth shooting behavior of lower powered springers.
All I’m trying to say is give the company a chance, from what we are getting here they seem to be listening to what the customers are saying (they detuned a bunch of PCP’s for our limited canadian market) and are sending spare parts (for their pcp’s anyways) here and I haven’t heard one complaint about the PCP line. The rifles we are getting here can be ordered with a Lothar Walther barrel instead of the Turkish one.
Zoraki the makers of the Webley Alecto are also Turkish and judging by it’s performance they seem to be getting the message and know how to make things right and they CAN bring nice products to us.
J-F
J-F,
Fortunately for all, B.B., is going to give this gun a fair shot at proving itself. I, for one, hope that it surprises us all. With a lot of hard work, almost all guns that I’ve bought eventually did very well. But I literally puts months of effort (practice and analysis) into each one of them. B.B. doesn’t have that kind of luxury of time, so I don’t usually assume the worst, even after seeing an entire report.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if all manufacturer’s provided a test shot group with all of their guns, the way that FWB, Anschutzs, etc., do? Let them do this under the absolute best conditions that they could create. Imagine if the best was the same as what B.B. has shown us in this report? That would say a lot.
Victor
Victor, it’s not the bashing of this rifle, from the first report most everyone predicted these result due to the nature of the rifle and the .177 caliber.
Hatsan is stuck between a rock and a hard place, hyper velocity rifle sells well but customer complain about the way they shoot so the poor engineer(s) tried to tame it with a rubber bushing between the action and the stock.
What I don’t like is the whole company being trashed because of ONE rifle.
Have a look at the PCP line-up:
http://www.hatsan.com.tr/pcp_air_rifles.asp
The new Elite series:
http://www.hatsan.com.tr/new_pcp_bt65_rb_elite.asp
comes with everything, from a sling and bipod to a hard case and a nice little place to put the spare mags underneat.
And their new PCP pistol, one of the ugliest pistol I’ve ever seen but if it’s as good as the rifles it will sell (here at least):
http://www.hatsan.com.tr/new_pcp_at-p1.asp
J-F
J-F,
Those look like very nice rifles. But probably most buyers aren’t looking for a PCP because of the extra cost, and the fact that they aren’t self-contained.
Based on what I’ve read here about Hatsan springer’s, they leave a lot to be desired, so maybe it’s fair to trash the whole company with regards to just their springer product line? I personally wasn’t thinking about the whole company being trashed. I was only thinking about this particular springer. Even with what’s been revealed in this report, I was still open to the idea that maybe others models might perform very well. I guess I’m being a bit too objective.
Victor
J-F,
This is just the first of many Hatsan air guns I will be testing this year. And this test isn’t finished yet.
There will be no trashing of the company in my reports. I realize people are making comments based on the test results thus far, and that its entirely fair, though we haven’t finished the test,
About the only critical thing I can say for certain about this package so far is the scope is sub-par and doesn’t belong with the rifle. Other than that, we still have a blank sheet of paper, as far as I am concerned.
B.B.
I know you are objective and won’t trash the rifle or the company before the end of the tests and I must admit that this particular rifle results don’t seem too good… I hope the other rifles give better results thant this one.
J-F
J-F,
If I hadn’t conducted the pellet velocity versus accuracy test I probably would have ordered this rifle in a larger caliber, because until that test was completed I always though that a .177 going super-fast couldn’t be accurate. Now I know different.
So now I will test a few of these magnum springers in .177 caliber and they better have good barrels!
B.B.
This rifle just keeps getting worse as part of a run of bad luck and maybe some other things. I’ve heard about the bad scopes you can get as part of combo packages, and this test seems to bear that out.
Regarding computers from yesterday, there is another chapter in the story about the guy who fired a whole magazine of .45 rounds through his daughter’s laptop on YouTube. He appeared on an interview with his whole family, including the daughter, and showed how he actually saved the data from the girl’s hard drive to install in her next computer. This guy has a technical answer to everything! When asked if the daughter is still grounded, he gave a resounding yes. (In the original video, he says to his daughter, “Whenever you’re not grounded…Whatever YEAR that happens to be….”). The girl gave a sickly smile….
Flobert, for a distaff opinion on the advantages of modern society, consider this. In one of my favorite books called The Far Arena, a Roman gladiator from the past is unfrozen and brought back to life. Naturally in the course of things, he wipes out someone gladiator-fashion. But when his friends freak out, he says, “You told me that in this society there is no crucifixion and no slavery, so what is there to worry about?”
B.B., is machine gun ammo that bad? That’s interesting. There is a surplus site selling brand new machine gun barrels for the rpg machine gun, and it claims these have the best, most precise rifling ever seen. They’re being marketed as target upgrades for Mosin rifles. So, it seems like some machine guns can be accurate.
/Dave and Victor, getting your leg grabbed is no fun, but I have wondered about the response. There’s a counter for every move as they say. I would say that, outside of a competition anyway, that getting grabbed and punched is one thing you shouldn’t have to worry about. One option is to bound forward on your one leg and embrace the attacker, then do the old eye poke. With both hands occupied with your leg, they will be in a bit of a bind. Or, once the distance is closed, you drop and pull them down, hopefully in a way that puts you at an advantage. There also seem to be some techniques in wrestling whereby you can maneuver on your one leg in such a way as to jam the opponent who is grabbing your leg and keep him at a distance. Interesting.
Victor, that is some feat to remain friends with someone who is a cheap shot artist. As for the response, one thing that comes to mind is to do a scene out of the old movies where the teacher puts the student in his place. There is a story about recruits for the Honolulu police department who were learning judo. One guy tried to mess with instructor (sporting one eye; he had lost the other in a bar fight). The instructor pulled him down to the mat then used both legs to rocket him upward into the ceiling, so that when the guy landed back on the ground, he was in shock. Or in my style, there is the case of the fourth degree black belt who noised it about that he was better than the 9th degree who ran the school. The 9th degree challenged him to put it on the line, and let him go first. The guy launched a lightning punch, but it was caught and countered with a particular kind of strike that applied knuckles to the back of the jaw angle with the effect of shattering the jaw into many pieces! The guy had his jaw wired shut for a couple years….
So, that can be viscerally satisfying. But even where you are not breaking the law, it is my suspicion that in some ways you are losing by conceding that force and temper are the arbiters of what should happen. And, by your own actions you open yourself up to a perpetual future of being tested as to how far they can push you which can only be stopped really by something so damaging that it raises problems in its own right. What to do then? I suspect the issue is the same as for enforcing the rules for gun safety. What is the NATURE of discipline? Reading about, the best answer I’ve seen is that the answer is control of detail, especially as it concerns time and place. Yelling, shouting, and displays of force are incidental if not irrelevant. So, in my cases, what I decided to do was make clear what I wanted, and if they didn’t follow, then they were gone. I borrowed this method from James Doc Consilman, legendary swimming coach and mentor of Mark Spitz. He said that his philosophy was that if a swimmer was not doing what he was supposed to, Consilman would tell him clearly what he expected. If the swimmer still did not perform, he would tell him to get out of the pool since he was wasting his time and the coach’s. That is chilling in a way that shouted fury cannot be. For one guy who liked to throw cheap shots and then proffer tissues where in one case, my nose was bleeding pretty freely, I finally told him exactly the kind of head contact I was looking for. There was one more transgression and that was it. So he want back to his sports sparring club.
As for the woman I gave the big shaking to, she actually wrote by email asking for another session when, as I suppose she had judged, the whole thing had blown over. One thing particularly irritating about her was her stories about her organization which would have the annual training camps. No sex was allowed!!??? And the workouts were purposely brutal and designed to make people throw up, but anyone who walked out was banned forever! Silly. So I just wrote her back to tell her that she should follow her own rules and since she had walked out of the last training session, she was done for good.
Now what if the person breaking your gun rules is your own Dad?! He kept trying to sneak on sunglasses that he wanted to wear instead of actual safety glasses, which I had learned about on this blog. 🙂 I finally did my thing about telling him CLEARLY about what had to be done for his own sake, and he came around.
Matt61
Matt,
Many people here uprade their Mosins with MG barrels here. They are thick, they are chromed, they are most times nicely forged and nicely rifled. Snipers, target shooters – many of them claim that this upgrade brings better results, but as I’ve never done this myself – I cannot compare, so I cannot prove or disprove that. Maybe you were talking about RPD barrels?
duskwight
Matt61,
I can’t hate someone someone who is deeply disturbed because of severe issues in their life. I was fully aware of my friends life’s situations. He did not go around acting like a jerk. He was just capable of trying to make himself feel better by taking advantage of others weaknesses when he could. More than anything, I simply felt sorry for him. But I raised my kids to understand that the minute that they realize that a friend is stupid, or real trouble, stay away from them. That’s what I eventually had to do.
Normally, when you grab someone’s leg, you hold onto it with one hand, then immediately rush them, forcing them into an instinctive effort to keep from falling. Within that short period, you either trip the other leg, or you pound them while you can. There are many things you can do IF someone grabs your let like this, but you have to react quickly. Hard training will give you the reflexes to react effectively.
An interesting thing about cheap-shot-artist’s, is that they know full-well that they are breaking the rules, and that is part of the “advantage” that they think they have. As with all “difficult personalities”, they are doing what they think works for them. What they don’t expect is for someone to do it back. After all, they’ve assumed that YOU are conditioned to play by the rules. You don’t have to get into a long-winded brawl with them, you simply need to give them a taste of their own medicine. One hard punch is all it usually takes. They usually simply learn that they can’t get away with it with you.
Victor
B.B.
You need to run some PBA over a chrono with this oinker. That should sell them by the truckload.
Even better, shoot a drugged pig from a few feet away.
twotalon
This rifle seems to have way too many issues to be worth the trouble when there are so many nice ones that won’t have all the drama. For me, manufactures can keep their scope package deals. I’ll just install what I want since it would almost never be what they give you with the rifle.
Mike
I don’t want to be a company basher/trasher for one rifle, but it is upsetting, and I’m in a basher mood. What are the chances that when BB gets a bad scope it’s the only bad scope in the manufacturer’s run? I’d think pretty slim. I would like companies to know that if they are going to bundle a rifle with a scope, it had better be a usable one, and that if one rifle comes with such a lousy scope why wouldn’t I think any of their other models will come with a better one? Well, I wouldn’t. Those scopes aren’t added to the package for free, no matter what they say, and it seems like way too often the scopes that are added are crap.
So every new potential airgunner who reads this blog, don’t buy a rifle combo unless BB says it’s okay, or if you do anyway, do so knowing full well it will most likely be Crap! Every airgun company who monitors this blog and passes off bad scopes like this to make a sale, I hope you know full well it could cost you business. I hope it does cost you business.
-Chuck
Chuck,
Even worse, cheap, or inexpensive, scopes tend to come with cheap rings, that you’ll eventually throw away, even if you put a very good scope on top of them. Often times, it’s the rings that are bad. That translates to time, pellets, and ultimately money, that is wasted. This further translates into a bad experience. Bad experiences can be long lasting in their effect.
Victor
Well, I have a Hatsan 60 in UK sub 12fpe type (they will produce around 18 at full power) and its fine, accurate and effective. Certainly a big rifle but its barrel is ok and it does not make too much noise and it has the now fairly decent trigger, which I believe if I am not wrong was a very late Webley design. The Webley-Hatsan link up has appeared in many guises of recent Hatsan products. I also have a 125 ‘sniper’ which is basically this gun in .25 which I bought on a whim. of course it too is sub 12fpe and its ballistic arc is akin to a mortar, a bit of a waste, but its still an impressive cannon.
I think you need a different 125. I am managing nearly dime sized groups with my Hatsan 125 .177 at 25 yards, and I still have a lot to learn about it. It is a very hold sensitive and hard gun to master, this is true, but it is pretty accurate once you learn how to shoot it. Pop cans are easily hit at 50 yards, and from 8 yards indoors I can always take the head off a match. You got a bad barrel, doesn’t mean they are all bad.