by B.B. Pelletier
Umarex HKMP5-K-PDW is a lightweight, handy BB-firing semiauto.
Today, I’ll begin the accuracy testing of all three of our BB submachine guns, beginning with the first one I tested, the HKMP5-K-PDW.
This gun is semiauto only, so there are only two settings on the selector switch — fire and safe. On fire, you get one shot per pull of the trigger, which is semiautomatic fire.
The trigger-pull is long and somewhat heavy but without any creep. You just feel the movement of the trigger blade until the gun fires. Creep is that nasty start-stop hesitation in a pull that messes with your concentration, and this gun has none of it.
You may remember that I commented on the rear sight being all wrong for this gun. For some reason, the maker put notches in the back instead of the MP5 apertures. You cannot see a notch when it’s so close to your eye, and I assume some of the openness of the groups I got is due to the imprecision of the sight picture. This would have been so easy to fix in the design stage, but now it’s a hindrance for accurate shooting. Not that most people will be using the sights, which are non-adjustable. Submachine guns are meant to be fired from the hip in close assaults. They’re not a precise weapon, although I do admit that the groups that use the MP5 firearm are being trained to use the sights with great effect. But they don’t use notches this close to their eyes!
I need to make one more observation before getting to accuracy. As I loaded a fresh CO2 cartridge into the gun, the tightening screw happened to stop just after the cartridge was punctured. I wasn’t ready for it, and I lost about a quarter of the gas charge while I repositioned my hand to tighten the screw further. This is the same complaint other owners have made, only they pierced the cartridge only to have it loosen during operation. For some reason, the face seal that contacts the small end of the CO2 cartridge on this gun is unlike all others that simply swell and seal the gun instantly when the cartridge is pierced. You can overcome this by learning to hold the winding screw in such a way that you can continue to tighten it all the time, but it is bothersome.
For this test, I shot 10s round offhand from 15 feet, which is close to the distance used in international BB gun competition (16.4 feet). As I mentioned, the rear sight notch was very hard to see, and I had to hold the stock funny so I could hold my head as far back on the comb as possible. Each shot was deliberate, and I took great pains to hold the sights at six o’clock on the bull.
The first BBs I tried were Crosman Copperheads. They shot exactly to the point of aim, more or less, which was gratifying. I kept the six o’clock hold only because it’s more precise than trying to guess where the center of a dark bullseye is.
Crosman Copperhead BBs shot to the point of aim at 15 feet, but the group was extended vertically. Party of this is due to the difficulty of seeing the rear notch that’s placed too close to the eye to resolve. Group measures right at two inches vertically but only one inch horizontally.
Daisy zinc-plated BBs
Next, I loaded 10 Daisy zinc-plated BBs into the stick magazine. You’ll recall that Daisy BBs are ever-so-slightly larger than Copperheads. They also shot to the aim point and gave me a group that was more rounded than the Copperheads. This group measures just larger than 1-3/8″ and is wider than it is tall. So, the vertical stringing is not due to the sights like I originally thought.
Daisy BBs gave the tightest group of this test. They also shot to the point of aim at 15 feet and did not string out nearly as vertical as Crosman Copperheads.
As a surprise, I also shot a group with RWS BBs, which I told you appear to be made as uniform as ball bearings. I’m definitely going to give this BB a test for ultimate accuracy some day soon. However, in the HK MP5, they lagged behind the Daisys, due to a single flyer. I didn’t call that flyer, so we must assume the BB went where it did on its own. If we discount that single BB, the RWS BBs equalled the Daisys with a 1-3/8″ group, so I’m hopeful they’ll continue to make a good showing in future tests. Pyramyd Air doesn’t carry RWS BBs yet, but if I can give them a good reason with these tests, I know they’ll reconsider it.
A great target, if only that one shot up away from the main group can be discounted. Certainly, RWS BBs are going to get a lot more testing from me in the near future.
If it had no competition, I think the HK MP5 would do very well. Its one big drawback is the lack of a full-auto burst-fire mode that the other two guns (the Steel Storm and the EBOS) have (three, if you count the Drozd). I like the trigger, and the power level is much greater than advertised. But the method of loading the CO2 cartridges requires too much work, and the sealing issue when piercing the cartridge that I mentioned in this report is bothersome. However, if you want a gun with just semiautomatic fire, this is the only BB submachine gun that has it.
60 thoughts on “H&K MP5 K-PDW CO2-powered BB gun – Part 3”
I had already ruled out this one because of the semi-automatic only mode. Also have ruled out the Drozd because of the cost and also because the first one I had broke after about 6 months of use.
So that leaves the ebos and the steel storm and the ebos will probably be the one I buy.
Here is a question that someone sent to the wrong address:
What is the best .177, break barrel, wood stock, (nitro) combo air rifle value?
a. Crosman Titan Nitro Piston Air Rifle
b. Ruger Air Hawk Elite Combo (non- nitro)
c. Stoeger Arms X20 Combo
d. Benjamin Trail NP XL
e. something else entirely?
Hopefully under $250.
That’s quite a list you have. Too bad we don’t know the selection criterion behind it.
Until you tell us what yopu are looking for, it will be impossible to choose a gun for you.
And, what does “best” mean? Most accurate? Most powerful? Best-looking?
You probably think that one rifle can have the “best” combination of all these things, but I assure you, it cannot.
So until we know what you are looking for we can’t help.
Do you want light cocking? Accuracy? Will the gun be used for hunting or killing pests? At what range do you shoot? Have you ever owned a breakbarrel air rifle–the hardest gun to shoot accurately in the world?
B.B., thanks for taking my call! As a first time pellet gun buyer I am overwhelmed by the choices and I was hoping for some guidance. I’d planned to purchase a pellet gun to perfect my paper perforating prowess at 50 paces. I might also unleash my inner Elmer Fudd on the gopher(s) that’s making Swiss cheese of the back yard. I like the look and feel of a wooden stock with the thumb hold design. The “nitro” technology seems like would be good at keeping the noise level down and the neighbors at bay. I was looking for some advice on what rifle with these features, offered the best performance vs. price vs. quality in this $150-$300. range.
Now that is something we can work with!
I will soon be starting a test of the new Crosman Titan Nitro Piston lower velocity rifle. I selected it because of how much I LOVE the Benjamin Legacy that Crosman sells directly to the public. That rifle is a 12 foot-pound gun in .22 caliber and I would recommend it to anyone who likes nice-shooting air rifles. I hope the new lower-powered Titan will be very similar in performance.
What about this model? Any cons? /product/jb-crosman-titan-gp-nitro-piston-air-rifle?m=2290
The cons are that is way too powerful for such a gun. It will be hard as heck to shoot accurately. Remember, breakbarrels are already the hardest guns in the world to shoot accurately, and the magnum ones are the hardest of all. That’s why I went with the lower power one.
Got it. This IS confusing.
After much reading and deliberation and confusion, I went ahead and order your Air Venture model to start with. What scope would you recommend? is it 11mm dovetail?
I assume you mean you ordered the Air Venturi Bronco? If so, it does have an 11 mm dovetail for mounting a scope.
As for a scope, why not pick the same one I tested the rifle with?
That’s the one that I bought, and I’m VERY happy with it. I found the accuracy to be there. They advertise a speed of 950 fps with non-lead pellets, but lots of people have written reviews and measured the actual speed at around 740 fps with lead. I got a little carried away with my own informal review (see below), but I am very pleased with the Titan.
Oh, you’re asking about the .177, and not the .22. I’m sure that B.B. is right about the .177 being too powerful, and thus not being particularly accurate.
Although I’ve had a chance to enjoy my Titan NP, I look forward to your review. I didn’t test with paper targets, and it was a very windy day, so I don’t have a precise, quantifiable, measure of accuracy. Also, I was having to rely a bit on Kentucky windage. However, I do know accuracy when I see it. It may not be “precision class”, but for plinking, it’s a great rifle for the price.
Good deal. The Titan Lower Powered gun I have is also a .22. Crosman advertises it as up to 695 f.p.s., but I’m expecting 600-610 with real pellets.
I’ll bet if things sort of scale, you’ll get around 580 fps. Mine drops from 950 fps to around 740 fps (based on others chrony measurements).
Look forward to it.
Last week I ran into a great deal on a Crosman Titan GP at a Walmart in Salt Lake City, where sales tax is only 6.5%. A couple of days earlier it sold for $156, so I figured that it would be cheaper to buy it from PA, but the next time I saw it it was only $149, so I took a chance and bought it.
I believe that the Titan is the “lowest” of a product line sold under various manufacturers names, like Benjamine-Sheridan, Remington, and Crosman. Being the bottom of the list of Nitro Pistons, and I’ve seen and held the higher end versions, I didn’t have great expectations of the Crosman Titan. However, in addition to my low expectations, I had something to compare it to, owning a Gamo CFX and a Crosman Quest 1000x. More than anything, I was curious about the Nitro Piston, and I’ve never owned a 22 caliber air-rifle.
Anyways, yesterday I took my Titan out near the Great Salt Lake on public lands where shooting is allowed and safe, and tested it. WOW!!! I LOVE THIS GUN!!! Compared to other springers, cocking really is smooth, as advertised. Hard to really appreciate the claims until you’ve tried it yourself. This rifle came with a typical CenterPoint 4x scope, which wasn’t off too far. I setup some already shot up propane fuel tanks that were sitting around, at around 70 feet and 150 feet. I was able to hit them every time, but I know the scope really wasn’t sighted in, so I decided to use some spent shotgun shells that were sitting around (people really don’t clean up their mess – there was even a TV setup on a mound of dirt). I placed the shotgun shells at the base of a sand dune, some 60 feet away, so that I could see where the shots were hitting. I was amazed that it only took me one shot to adjust the scope so that I could hit the shell the next time around! It was still off a bit, but it was kind of tough to get it exact because there was a lot of wind of varying speeds and direction. Very soon, I knew I was very close to being sighted in, so I moved the spent shotgun shells out to the top of the dune, such that they were now spread and standing between 90 and 100 feet away.
The Titan GP really blew me away on several fronts:
1. It shot really hard and straight (I tried shooting even further
into water puddles just to see how straight it was shooting,
and the trajectory was better than I had expected).
2. It was very accurate! At approximately 90+ feet, I was able
to shoot a string of 4 shotgun shells before I missed one.
3. The cocking was much smoother, and lighter, than I had expected
(when compared to my other springers.)
4. The trigger was MUCH better than I had expected, after having
shot at least 500 shots through my CF-X and Quest, each. The
stock trigger on those were SUPER long and mushy. I had to buy
the GRT-III aftermarket trigger to make those rifles acceptable.
BUT NOT FOR THE TITAN! The Titan was crisp and clean with
no caffiene, right from the first shot.
5. The thumb-hole stock makes a REAL difference! It better allowed
me to position my finger on the trigger such that I could squeeze
the trigger without disturbing my aim. As a smallbore shooter, I
also preferred the feel of a free-style rifle, which also have
6. My wife agreed that the Titan was quieter than my other rifles.
Good Lord! I REALLY enjoyed having several HOURS shooting the Titan. Everything about it was good. I wasn’t using great pellets, Crosman Premier Hollow Point, but the accuracy was there. Sure, I saw a flyer or two, but if you’ve seen a 12 gauge shotgun shell at 90+ feet, you’ll know that it was a fairly small target. This rifle was accurate enough to hit them, when I did my part.
I think that the Crosman Titan is a great air-rifle for the price! I’m glad I got a 22 caliber. All of my other air-rifles (I only have 5 others) are .177″ and I use them for punching paper. This one is just for popping things and watching them fly. If the accuracy wasn’t there, the Titan could not have impressed me at all, and I definitely would not have had SO MUCH FUN!
The Titan gets 2 thumbs up, and 2 big toes! 🙂
So Titan .22 is the way to go?
Would the same be true for the Benjamin Trail NP http://tinyurl.com/3a3kx6b vs the http://tinyurl.com/35vrgob ?
Remember, I bought a .22 and you originally specified .177. I’m very pleased with the .22 Titan!
The other issue is cost. The two that you provided links for are $80 and $150 (twice the cost) more expensive. If you are looking at buying your “last” such gun then you might want to consider the more “polished” and more expensive versions. I bought my Titan out of curiousity more than anything. It just turned out that I was pleasantly surprised at how well it performed when compared with my springers. The more expensive models are also bigger. I bought a gun case for my Titan because I didn’t want to carry a rifle around exposed. As it turned out, the more expensive models barely fit in the case by about a half inch for both sides. They are huge!
Tom looking for a air rifle,
I have a Ruger Air Hawk in.177 that has not been tuned. It’s not the Elite, just the AirHawk version. It is my least favorite breakbarrel. To me it is harsh, heavy, loud, and not pinpoint accurate at 10m. I like to shoot 10m bench rest competitions. It will shoot quarter sized groups regularly, though. You must learn the artillery hold with it as you must with any spring/nitro powerd rifle.
It might make a terrific hunting gun, though. I loaned it to a friend who had a rabbit problem in his back yard and he liked it, thought it was very accurate. He was shooting a bit farther than 10m which is why I say it might be a good hunter and more accurate at the longer distances. He said he was dropping them dead instantly with one shot.
I wish I knew more about your others listed but the Ruger is the only one I’m familiar with and the Elite may be an altogether different gun from the AirHawk, at that.
Thanks! Isn’t the same gun as the Elite model with a different stock and scope, or are there other differences?
Good question. I suspect you’re right but I don’t know the answer to that for sure, but someone else on this blog might?
How’s the new rifle getting along with the establishment in your gun safe(s)? Was she accepted with open bolts or closed magazines?
She is too beautiful to be hidden, so she is on display in our library.
I’m going to be “Mr.Obvious” and state…..We can’t wait to hear about this deal of a lifetime!Please!
Did everyone see Fred’s neat pistol find??
BB,have you heard of a military project air pistol in .20 ,Co2 powered…..called a Folletto/Lazzerini?
One of 50 was offered over the weekend on Brad Troyer’s American Airgun Classifieds.Seller claims it somehow acchieved 1,808 fps with a Co2 cartridge!!?? He said it’s based on a Benjamin pistol,and lethal to 30 ft.Asking price is $7,500….can’t find information anywhere,seems like something people would have talked about.
I saw that. My impression is it sounds too good to be true. And you know what you should do if it sounds too good to be true!
Think about it! Velocities of 1808 fps with a CO2 cartridge? Probably not even if the pellet was 1 grain!
To my knowledge no one has even pushed a pellet of any type to 1000 fps with CO2! Yet alone 1808.
I believe this is a fabrication! I don’t believe CO2 gas can power anything to travel that fast.
I have heard of CO2 Crosman 1100 Trapmaster shotguns converted to .20 caliber that were reported to only get five shots per powerlet, yet shoot at 1,500 f.p.s. I think this is just another rendition of that fabrication.
Ya what BB said, I don’t believe the molecular size of Co2 gas, along with the transition time between liquid and gas, or it’s ultimate pressure potential at 70 F+ could ever create that scenario.
Now, if you wanted to use a Sodium-azide canister from an airbag set-up…? Hmmm…
I think you could rig up a chrono to read that high with a couple tricks but to take it as an honest fact I don’t buy it.
I certainly didn’t believe it either….just wanted to see if any of it(even the name) had any basis in fact.You know,like Gamo exists….but their claims are……! Why would the military need such a sidearm anyway??? For warfare in methane rich enviroments? And if it was a failure(which only 50 made suggests)what the heck were they trying to achieve??
I could seee their use in an outerspace application such as taking over a space station or other close quarter environment without doing hardly any damage or richochet. Hunting on methane rich planets could also be a good use as you pointed out.
Perhaps the military got wind of a Taliban plot to take over American cow pastures( no more Big Macs ). BS and methane always go together.
I think you guys are missing the purpose of this gun. It was being considered as the issue piece for the folks “guarding” Area 54–keeping the things inside, inside. At least it makes some sense to me that way.
Sounds like it was developed to hunt moon rabbits,I think they use depleted uranium armor piercing pellets for that. 🙂 🙂
Off topic, but I have a question for the Pyramyd Air team. I just received my winter catalog and noticed that the Bronco and all the Mendoza products were not included. I also see that new Mendoza rifles are not listed anymore on the website. You used to carry a reasonable selection of parts for them as well. Is the line being dropped and will that also include the Bronco and the promised bigger brother to it? Robert.
Mendoza is experiencing production and financial difficulties, which makes their ability to supply air rifles difficult. So Pyramyd Air has discontinued their sale, and that includes the Bronco.
Yay! My Bronco may be a collectors item for sure now!
Those look like good accuracy results for submachine guns. There’s a villain in the Stephen Hunter books who is an expert with a tommy gun. He can shoot four inch groups at 50 yards and shoot skeet with it. I wonder if anyone has done that in real life. Maybe accuracy is not out the window with full-auto.
Regarding supersonic pellet accuracy, I believe that air drag is proportional to the speed of the projectile, so increasing the muzzle velocity is no solution, especially with drag-stabilized pellets with skirts. Your pellet will just slow down that much faster. If you go with bullet designs, you are just reproducing rimfire ballistics.
A load has been lifted off my mind now that PA has restocked Ballistol, and I am spraying Ballistol on everything in sight without worrying about conservation.
B.B.’s deal of a lifetime really sounds like something. We might be looking at another “Jurrasic Park” moment here.
Friday’s blog will be the largest single report with the greatest number of photos that I have ever done. It will qualify as a feature article in a magazine.
More of a reason than ever to say “come on Friday!”
A couple of weeks ago i asked for some advise on which airgun i should buy for my first one. For those who don’t remember, i was leaning toward a Remington NPSS, but both BB, and Kevin tried to steer me towards a Diana M34. One thing that Kevin mentioned in his advice got me thinking… he said i should consider resale value, and that if i got one or the other and didn’t like it, i could simply sell it. I wanted to know about how these guns held their value; i watched and searched for the guns i was considering until i had a pretty good idea about used values. Eventually i came across an older M34P which had been professionally tuned, and customized by shortening the barrel, and came with a pretty nice scope. This gun was in my price range so i ‘pulled the trigger’ on the deal. The guy i bought it from was very helpful and the gun arrived exactly as described.
Bottom line is I LOVE this gun!!! It is *amazingly* accurate, and meets all of my criteria. I appreciate the thoughtful comments i got from everyone, but especially from Kevin, and BB. This blog is a great resource, and i have learned a lot from reading it.
The funny thing is…. now that i have an airgun that i really like i’m already thinking about my _next_ one.
And that is how it usually works. Kevin and I both know that, but until you have walked that path, it is a little hard to explain.
I am glad you are so happy with your new gun.
Steve, you have been officially anointed/addicted into the airgun club.
Good luck and try locking up your wallet somewhere you can’t get too.
Brian in Idaho
Steve, four years ago I purchased a Daisy Red Ryder for my 6 year old. (I had a past history of powderburners but was never much into airguns).
I remember how we took it down to the basement that day and I decided I should buy myself something to shoot when I took my son out. I settled on piece ‘o crap Marksman (long gone) and then a couple of days later discoverd this blog.
Our air powered ‘arsenal’ now totals 13 rifles and pistols.
Luckily the end is in sight…there are only 9 more ‘needs’ on my list 😉
“only 9 more ‘needs’ on my list.” Can you hear me laughing? Think I’ve never heard a line like that before? “I’ve got all the guns I’m ever going to need.” “I really don’t need anymore guns.” Oops! Fell off my chair with hysterical laughter 🙂
They keep inventing new guns. You’ll never finish buying guns. You’ve been sucked into the vortex of airgun mania and cannot escape. I WOULD tell you to run and never look back, but the vortex is too powerful. Resistance is futile. Only 9 more guns & then you’re done? Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha…fell off the chair again :-0
That just made my day Edith 😉
I do remember when I got the Avanti 853c, which was the first ‘good’ airgun after I’d donated the Marksman to our local scout troop (still kinda feel bad about that…it really was a crappy gun). When I opened the Avanti I figured that was the only airgun I’d need…after shooting it for a couple of days I realized I needed an ‘outdoor’ gun…a target pistol…an outdoor pistol…the list just keeps getting bigger, doesn’t it.
Well it looks like the Federal Government can’t figure out a simple algebra problem for deceleration of a pellet. What a bunch of garbage. My brother, the Chem E at Picatinny, came back and started complaining that all their ballistic formulas require the propellent energy and the coeficient of burning for the propellent. When I argued with him that I had given him the energy – fps times mass and all I wanted was the rate of deceleration and distance traveled, he responded, “we don’t deal with pellet guns here”. Our tax dollars at work. Thank goodness for Chairgun!
Then he mumbled something about shooting all their shells through rings…….
I’m afraid your brother is hiding something 😉
Actually, I’ve read reports that several high-cal PCP’s were and are in use in Iraq by US special forces just because of their incredible features. High precision, no flash, easily-supressible sound signature, high-lethality projectile, no metal clicking on reload cycle, no IR signature (actually gun cools down on shooting), no gunpowder smell and no empty brass on the spot.
Very interesting! Actually, my brother hasn’t told me exactly what it is he does for quite a few years. Last time was when he was involved in developing safety procedures for propellent manufacturing. I’ve forwarded your comment to him to see what he says – that is – when he’s actually working. Today, he left work early to officiate at a school volleyball game. It’s his second job which also serves to keep him away from his wife.
b.b. offtopic. A customer just gave me two bottles of something called Gunzilla…he claims it is a wonder do all for guns.
The bottle states:
• Low odour
• Airline safe (in checked baggage)
• Natural chemical base (from plants)
• No petroleum solvents
• No hazardous chemicals
• Soap and water cleanup
• No Phenol
• No Teflon
• No ammonia
Does it sound safe for airgun use (as in do you think it would hurt the seals)
If your not sure I’ll pass it on to a friend who shoots powder.
It sounds like it will grow hair on my head!
Seriously, though, I don’t know what it will do to airgun seals.
Edith checked their website and they say it is safe for airguns.
BB, any chance that you will be testing the Tech Force rifles. It looks like they have a lot of new youth / young adult offerings.
Uh, yeah! I started last Friday.
Been out of touch with the forum for a few days now. Wow, how you miss a lot. Way too much to go back and read it all!
What’s been going on, well parents came down to Georgia from New York/Canada border for a six month stay. I purchased a 2008 Suzuki DR650SE Motorcycle. Bought a gun case for my 2240 converted to mini carbine with scope. Well a lot of other minor stuff going on, but just wanted to let you all know I was still around.
Proof it’s me, here’s a quote:
When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking.
Did he also be delivered to Turkey .How much is shipping?
You need to ask Pyramyd Air. Though this is their blog, I have nothing to do with ordering.
Contact them here:
Hi I’m from mexico Intres mp5 rifle deliveries have mexivo
Gracias por escribirnos. En referencia a su solicitud, por favor contacte a nuestro distribuidor en Mexico “C02 Airguns Mexico”:
Telefono 01(55) 85255471