by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Leapers UTG Accushot 2-7X44 Scout Scope is a remarkable sight!
I’m on the road today to Ohio to Pyramyd Air and the Flag City Toys That Shoot airgun show this coming Saturday. If you plan to be there, please stop by my table and introduce yourself.
And while I’m gone on this huge road trip (there’s more driving ahead before I return home), I would ask the veteran readers to help answer the questions posed by the newer readers. I will only have about 3 hours each evening to exercise, answer emails and write the next blog — and I usually get 150-200 emails a day.
Today, I’m testing the UTG 2-7X44 Scout SWAT scope for accuracy. It’s mounted on the Crosman MK-177 multi-pump pneumatic that I tested for you awhile back. So, I have the data on that rifle using open sights.
I selected the 3 best pellets from that first test for today’s test. The distance was 10 meters because the groups I got before were not that small. Had they been small enough, I might have tested the rifle at 25 yards.
RWS Hobbys
The first pellet I tried was the RWS Hobby wadcutter. In the previous test at 10 meters with open sights, 10 Hobbys gave me a group that measured 0.858 inches. With the scope mounted, I got a group that measured 0.928 inches at the same 10 meters. So, no improvement.
Ten Hobbys fared no better with a scope than with open sights at 10 meters. In fact, at 0.928 inches between centers, this group is larger than the one shot with open sights. But, the scope was much easier to use.
I found the scope’s thin reticle quite easy to pick up and hold on target. The optics seem clear and bright, although my test conditions were perfect. I would like to test this scope in the field under variable lighting.
H&N Finale Match Pistol
Next, I tested 10 H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets. In the last test, they gave me a 1.299-inch 10-shot group, but 9 of those went into just 0.399 inches. I suspected at the time that the one pellet was somehow off, so I decided to try this pellet again.
This time, using the scope, 10 pellets went into 0.548 inches. That’s better than the last group and not much larger than the 9 pellets that grouped so well on the other test. Up to this point in the test, the scope hasn’t improved my results — but it has been much easier to use! My shooting went much faster because I wasn’t guessing where the top of the front sight was.
Yes, these 10 H&N Finale Match pistol pellets are in a smaller group than before, at just 0.548 inches. But I feel the one stray shot in the open-sight test may have been a damaged pellet.
After this group, I adjusted the scope to center the group in the bullseye. It’s easy enough to do, and the locking ring means there’s no fear of anyone messing up the settings.
Air Arms Falcons
The final pellet I tried was the Air Arms Falcon dome — a lightweight dome that has proven very accurate in a number of different airguns. This time, the results were better. Ten Falcons went into 0.839 inches in the first test with open sights and just 0.425 inches in this test. Nine of the 10 pellets went into just 0.154 inches — rivaling a 10-meter rifle!
Believe it or not, there are 9 Falcon pellets in the larger hole! The one pellet strayed up a little (shot 7), opened this group to 0.425 inches.
Impressions of the scope thus far
I’m thoroughly impressed with this scout scope. It’s clear, sharp and easy to use. I want to test it on something else — maybe a firearm. This is a scope I can recommend if you’re looking for a good scope.
The benefit isn’t better groups, but a clearer picture of the target. On a rifle with real precision, that can mean something!
I do plan on another test with this rifle ay 25 yards. The Falcon pellets have earned their way into that test, and perhaps some similar premium pellets, as well.
Wow! I gotta get me summa doze! what would be an equivalent, available pellet?
Reb,
The closest thing to the Falcon is the JSB RS. I have found they sometimes perform the same, and I will be trying them in this rifle when I do the 25-yard test.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.!
Hey ya’ll, I’m getting a Chrony! It’s looking like the Beta’s the cheapest place to start if you want a fully expandable model. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m looking to get it ordered tomorrow and need YOUR advice.
Thanks
Reb
Reb
Here is the chrony I have.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/shooting-chrony-f-1-chronograph-green?a=1174
does the F1 allow for a remote screen?
Reb
I went and looked at mine and on the left side of the chrony to the left of the readout there is a spot were it looks like you could plug a electrical attachment in.Its hard to see on that link I put up. So think you can up grade if I remember right.
But I’m going to ask why the remote screen. If your thinking about trying to get velocity readings at different ranges your going to have fun doing that. For one it would take forever to test all the different distances a preson shoots at. And you better be a pretty good shot or I think you will have some marks on your chrony to remember. You know what I mean. I just chrony my guns about a foot and a half away from the muzzle to get a idea of how the gun is performing. And remember most of the stuff I chrony is PCP guns. So just a turn of a screw and it changes things dramatically in a pcp gun.
But on the other hand the chrony that I do have will store if I remember right 30 or 32 shots. And now the more I’m thinking about it without looking at the instructions that came with it. That I think that side electrical port is for attachments. I think you can get a printer also and plug into that spot.
I need to look for sure so I don’t give the wrong info.
Chairgun will tell you the velocity at different ranges with muzzle velocity but of course that won’t be 100% nor as much fun.
If the Alpha Master comes with remote readout w/ext. and interface I think that’s worth the extra $14 and a NO- brainer. Your thoughts?
I’m just interested in MV, Ican do the calculations, I’m just thinkin’ it’ll be handy, and it’s a free $17 upgrade
Or would that make it a$14 upgrade? Gotta relax my brain for a bit . I’m going out to shoot
For the most part, you can “upgrade” any model to another model for a nominal fee.
http://www.shootingchrony.com/products_TUGYC.htm
You can also “trade up” if your unit has been trashed… (or is too old — I’m sure mine now falls into this class)
http://www.shootingchrony.com/products_TTIYC.htm
I don’t recall the F1 having a “Master” variant. I have the Beta Master version (don’t reverse the terms when speaking in public).
If I hadn’t, my unit would have gone in for repair after I dented the front face with a shot from the Condor… I’d given too much top clearance for the scope I was sighting with, and {ping} flattened a pellet right where the display would be on the non-Master form.
The jack on the F1 may be for the printer accessory.
I also have the LED sky-screens for indoor usage.
Hmmm, based on http://www.shootingchrony.com/products_SCMMCM.htm the F1 DOES have a Master model.
The Alpha and above models are (to me) more desirable as you can obtain max/min/mean/std.dev. of a shot string directly from the device. The F1 is single shot only. Beta models allow for more than one shot string (up to 10 shots per string, 6 strings) — So one could test 6 pellets, 10 shots each, then go home and dump the statistics for each pellet/string. (Hmm, memory expansion upgrade and timer upgrade for some 35 dollars… I’m tempted)
Wulfraed
It took me a minute to get that one.
Beta Master version. Funny. 🙂
OH you meant. Master Bet…
Ok I will stop now before I get in trouble. Yes I knew what you meant. I just need to shut up. One of those nights at work again.
A friend of mine has one of these, which he is gracious enough to let me borrow on occasion.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/competition-electronics-prochrono-digital-chronograph?a=4015
I have not used one like GF1 has, but this one works pretty nice and the casing is pellet resistant.
Quite frankly, I think they are both overpriced, but they pretty much control the market, so you are stuck if you are going to dive deep into shooting airguns.
I’ve got 3 bows and I’m always working on something. It’ll pay for itself.
I researched how to build one . All the parts are readily available but I have no idea how to program it. I did’t want to tether it to the computer and was considering a scientific calculator. Time to spend the money.
These look expensive to upgrade.
Reb
Don’t forget to let us know when you have trouble with it.
twotalon
I understand proper lighting can be a challenge.
Reb
A lot of people do everything wrong and get the problems they asked for. Be cautious and think about what you are doing.
twotalon
What state do you live in?
Back when I was carnying I had the longest arms on the Midway!
Reb
Ohio, but it don’t matter. You gotta follow the same rules with a chrono no matter where you live.
twotalon
OK I’ll face North. You’ll hear!
Everyone,
I’m unplugging the computer and going on the road now.
B.B.
Safe travels B.B., did he say those falcons are not available? Is he testing them for AA? He said that didn’t he? I was going to say, the AA pellets have larger end of the pellet heads Size because they are made for pcp, right? pcp pellets must be good for multipumpers too, anybody have experience that says certain pellets work better for a type of powerplant in generals?
RDNA
You are jumping to too many conclusions .
Pellets need to be good quality and they have to fit.
Beyond that, lower powered guns tend to do better with lighter pellets while higher powered guns tend to work better with heavier pellets. Does not much matter what power plant.
You will see so many exceptions and unexpected results that you should not make up too many hard rules. You gonna fool yourself a lot of times.
twotalon
Not so much the weight but the size of the pellet, if pcps don’t blow out the skirts then they would do better with slightly oversized pellets I was thinking. And if a pcp company made pellets would they reflect this?
RDNA
Stop thinking about skirts and start thinking about head size. No matter who makes the barrels, you will see a lot of variation in bore size.
Skirts do not “blow out ” all that much in anything other than the megamagnum springers. The skirts are always larger than the heads anyway. Shoot some pellets into water and look at the rifling marks. You will see that the skirts are not expanded to fill the grooves.
twotalon
All I shoot are magnum springers. All my rifling marks look the same with pretty much any pellet I use. Maybe I asked too many questions at once, the important one was do larger head size help more in pcps? The other questions will then answer themselves.
RDNA
I don’t think it is the head size so much in general as much as the pellet has to fit and at the same time has to get along with the gun.
twotalon
Thats why I wanted to ask, see if anyone noticed a pattern ie: jsbs have a larger head size, my pcp likes jsbs, or h-n have softer skirts, my springers like h-ns, but your right, there are just way too many variables to form any pattern, that would be nice though, save people a little time by getting in some kind of place to start. That’s the amazing thing is there is absolutely no way to tell what will work best.
I really think the barrel has more of an impact than the powerplant however, springers do add another variable to the equation
Reb and RDNA
There is so many variables in the type of designs of guns and the way barrels are made and where you live and shoot at (different altitudes, Kevin brought that up the other day)
Just think of how many different size springs and valve sizes in the power/transfer port valve. Then you have different size springs and different weight strikers that knock the valve open . Then the different size passages that allow the air to transfer to the barrel. Different design bolts that push the pellet into the barrel at different depths. Then the pellet finally stars making it down the barrel. And we all know how many variables there are in the process of making variables.
So pellet choice is something to be learned for each gun you have. I would like to say that a good quality pellet works that cost more money. But I have shot pellets in guns that people say are no good.
What you need to look at is how your going to use that gun and then figure out what design of pellet may be best suited for that type of shooting. Then get some different brands or even the same brand with similar characteristics.
That’s the thing no body can know the tune I have on my gun or how I shoot but me. So it would be hard for somebody to recommend what pellet I should use. That’s just the way that is.
And guy’s I don’t mean to sound like I’m directing it towards you. I’m just talking in general. So I’m not trying to make it sound like you guys don’t know anything. Obviously we had some interesting conversations.
I did a typo.
“And we all know how many variables there are in the process of making variables.”
Should be. And we all know how many variables there are in the process of making (barrels).
In truth, GF1,, it sounded to me, like a very appropriate play on words. I’d have rather thought you meant it as such.
Ed
Ed
Now that you mention it. I see what you mean. It does add to the meaning that way.
Thanks
I’m getting H&N.177 sampler with this order.
RDNA,
The .177-cal. Falcons are no longer available on Pyramyd Air’s site. Air Arms doesn’t sell them anymore (don’t see them on their site, either). Testing pellets for Air Arms? No. Where do you see that he said that?
Edith
It might’ve been something old, must’ve, actually.
What did you think about what Charlie had to say?
Can you give me the link again? I didn’t get into that one and there was like 300 comments on choking so help me out here, :j
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charliedatuna.com%2Fairgun_docs%2FHand%2520Lapping%2520Tutorial.doc&ei=HFNDU9aWB6-H2AXGs4EI&usg=AFQjCNERtYEvQNhVzHBlPW9s0KzDKSfTqw&sig2=peHd-YiHlJLIQG3H2y2MKg&bvm=bv.64367178,d.b2I
Heads up: Anyone who clicks on the link in Reb’s comment will be DOWNLOADING a document. It’s not a web page.
Reb–Not everyone trusts links that automatically download things to a computer. Please state that up front when posting a download link.
Thanks,
Edith
Thanks Edith, I mentioned it yesterday but forgot today. It takes about a minute to load on my computer. and you’re right it scared me the first time. I’ll work on getting the protocol down. Sorry
Reb
I originally almost waited to share this here today but i’m glad it;s both places.
PLEASE READ
Reb
See his reply to my question about availability.
I see that the kind of pellet really does matter with this gun. Particularly when it shows at 10 m.
twotalon
Edith, They appear to be offering the Alpha Master for the same price as the Beta. could you please verify this for me?
Thanks
Reb
Reb,
Call PA customer service. They’re very helpful.
kevin
My landline’s down right now and my cell is on mins.
Reb,
They’re about 4 cents apart, so it looks like that’s what they’re charging these days.
Edith
And the Alpha Master comes with the remote screen and ext.,and interface ?
If so, I’ve got a shopping cart with this, early Benji repair kit, and H&N .177 sampler,for $155 Free shipping and I’ll be doin’ it one way or he other today.
Thanks
Reb
Reb-
That hand lapping is a lot of work, have you tried it yet? I don’t know if I can spend that much time to do that when you can just fire lap… I did swab out the bore of the np a few dozen times with toothpaste, running patches with a little so there was a very thin coat, fire a pellet, wipe it all out clean, fire a pellet, then swab it out a couple times with the paste, wipe it out but leave a very thin coat, fire a pellet, patch it completely clean, fire a few through the clean bore, repeat . Did that about ten cycles and it looks good, then did three cycles of the nickel paste and wiped it completelyclean and shot a dozen through the fully treated barrel. That’s it, Im done, just gonna let it season itself from here out, got it a good start I think. I made a leather breech seal this morning that’s mint. I like replacing the rubber orings with leather, they give a more custom fit so I figure a better seal.
No, I haven’t tried it Yet but I’m considering doing this to my new springer when I strip it down for spring guide and shims. The bore on that thing is NASTAY!
Nice to see the Scout scope do well. It certainly is nice-looking. Too bad about the occasional thrown shot with the 10 shot group. I’ve had a few of those myself recently, and they are most exasperating.
That’s a killer workload with the 200 emails a day. I notice that the blog seems to be getting even bigger. 100 responses were common for weekend posts, but now it’s routine to go over 200.
B.B., that is outrageous that the policeman was firing live ammo at you. So you have had shots fired at you though not exactly in anger, more like ignorance. Couldn’t people tell that real bullets were coming at them or see where the bullets struck? He must have been a pretty poor shot, thankfully. I imagine that he did not get the warmest send-off.
Matt61
I bet his ears were pretty warm as he was leaving…
Matt,
It wasn’t me. I wasn’t there when it happened.
I have been shot at, but not this time.
B.B.
Matt61
I think you win the award for the day. The first comment of the day about the topic. The scope. 🙂
Hi Tom, What unbelievable performance with falcon!!!
How many pump you make for the 10 meter target? Do you have crony’d? I’ve a Crosman M177 and have not bad accuracy with 5/6 pump at that distance, but usually have some unexpected flyers 1or2 inches all around the group, with all type of pellet I used (JSB Exact express, JSB Exact , H&W FTT, H&W FTT power in precision order), May be I need to tight the barrel?
Many thanks in advance
Pietro
donpedrofogo. Welcome to the blog! I cleaned mine while I had the rifle disassembled.
Pietro,
That was with 5 pumps. I should have put that in the report.
Welcome to the blog!
B.B.
I’m sorry but I forget one important question: how to clean efficently the barrel in multipump like mine?
I try with clean pellet but I’m sure this is not the best way…the problem is the very few space in the receiver…
BRGRDS
Pietro
Pietro,
I NEVER clean barrels on multi-pumps. I haven’t found they need it.
B.B.
In one way, pellet guns seldom need cleaning (less than even .22 rimfires). There is no corrosive residue on firing.
INITIALLY however, you may have packing/manufacturing residue to remove. Lacking a break-barrel (or AirForce model where remove the air tank gives access) you may be forced to use a cleaning rod from the muzzle end. .177 cleaning rods are available, along with compatible tips (.177 cleaning tips use a different thread size from other common rods).
I’don’t agree with your comment because isn’t correct to insert anything from muzzle end.
I’m usually insert in my break barrel and my TalonP, from loading chamber, a rubber electrical cable socket with inside a fishing line, with soft cotton cloth, first with white spirit and finish with dry ones.
I started to recommend the fishing line method but think it would be too difficult on an assembled gun.
Hi Reb,
You was right, this is the problem! clean barrel to prevent rust and clean lead residue (untouchable powder) in a multipump rifle or in Co2 pellet pistol like Gamo PT85 is possible to make in efficently way only desassembling the gun
Take your time and look for any easy improvements you can make also. Good Luck!
Pietro,
Welcome to the Blog!
Airgun barrels rarely need cleaning. Brass barrels, like those on many multi-pump airguns should be left alone.
Here’s a good article B.B. did that gives details on cleaning an airgun barrel:
/blog/2005/11/is-your-airgun-barrel-really-clean/
kevin
Swell. I see that B.B. turned his computer back on after a long day of driving. Obesessive.
Sure takes time anymore to find those old articles.
kevin
Kevin,
I know! Thank you for finding that.
I’m holed up in a motel in Nashville, working on a guest blog for next week. Gonna quit soon, though, and get some sleep!
Thanks again,
B.B.
B.B.,
Be careful. Don’t push the limits. Godspeed.
kevin
Thanks Kevin, nice informations!
Dear BB thank you for your reply, I like to ask you one more information:
There is available in the market an airgun with nitro piston or better with theoben gas ram with fixed barrel?
I never see one…why?
Imagine the possibility to regulated internal piston pressure (like in HW90) and change barrel calibre and size!!!
Pietro,
Sure there have been fixed-barrel rifles with gas springs. The Theoben SLR is one of them and one of our readers owns one.
Pop — can you help us here?
B.B.
What lucky guys…I’see.
Many thanks
Well,I done it! Alpha Master Chrony, earlyBenji tool/kit &H&N sampler=$164.89 TMD, Should be here some time Friday.WOOHOO!
Reb
Good for you.
Yeah, maybe?
Reb
I don’t understand what you mean by that?
BB. Off topic. I don’t know if anyone else has requested this but I would appreciate a review on the Sheridan 2260MB. My 1975 version of the Blue Streak is one of my favorites and if this new rifle is another example of Sheridan’s quality, I would definitely be interested in adding it to my collection. Thanks! Toby
Toby,
The Crosman 2260 is a classic! It’s the rifle that was converted into the Benjamin Discovery.
Crosman is now selling this as a Sheridan 2260MB and also as a Crosman Heritage 2260. How confusing!
I will look into it.
B.B.
Gosh BB your up late or up early?
Hope you get to enjoy some part of the trip. Be safe.
BB. That’s what I thought it looked like. Didn’t know they brought it back. The Chinese clone, although supposedly good, does not interest me. Thank you for the response. Have a great trip. Toby
I definitely would’nt expect the same trigger but I’m sure the gun wil lpeform well
I’d really like to thank the Whole gang here, for your guidance, patience,& acceptance of us, as we are. Your Fellow Airguuner,
Reb
Sorry ’bout the typo. I think I was mistin’ a bit.