by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
This blog was requested by blog reader Joe, who wanted to know if choked airgun barrels are more accurate, and why. A number of other readers seconded his request. So, we know there’s interest in the subject.
What is a choke?
A choked barrel is one in which there’s a reduction in the diameter of the bore near the muzzle. Someone likened it to the FX Smooth Twist barrel that’s rifled only at the end of the barrel, but it isn’t the same. The Smooth Twist barrel has a constriction — the rising of the rifled lands. But in a choked barrel, the entire bore gets smaller. I don’t know if the Smooth Twist barrel is also choked; but if it is, that’s a separate thing.
Most shooters know that shotguns are choked, and they understand why. A choke keeps the shot from spreading as quickly as it would without a choke. Shotguns have several specific kinds of chokes that make the pattern they project contain a certain shot density at a given distance from the muzzle. Hitting something at 25 yards with an improved cylinder choke is virtually the same as hitting it at 40 yards with a full choke. But that’s not what a choke does for a rifle barrel.
A choked rifle barrel squeezes the bullet or pellet slightly just before it leaves the muzzle. This is only an analogy, but it’s like pulling hard on a dog’s leash — it gets his attention and focuses him. In the case of the bullet and pellet, it stops any minute fluttering that may be happening inside the bore.
In my experience, it does work. Here’s what I know. First, the great barrel maker, Harry Pope, always choked his barrels. He first drilled the holes in the barrel blank undersized, then reamed the bore to get a choke of half a thousandth of an inch (0.0005-inches or 0.0127mm). His choke was an even taper down the full length of the barrel; and for the life of me, I can’t comprehend how he did it. Most barrel makers have a transition point where the bore tapers more or less abruptly from one size to the smaller size. This transition is very smooth, and the choke is seldom more than a thousandth of an inch, so it doesn’t disturb the bullet or pellet that much.
Pope’s barrels are legendary. One of them put ten lead bullets into 0.20 inches at 200 yards! And a great many of them will put 10 shots into a half inch at 200 yards, although Pope never guaranteed that level of accuracy.
But what about today’s barrels? Are they choked and does it help? Yes and yes are the answers. But not all barrels are choked — and even those that are choked may not be so intentionally.
Here’s a true story. When AirForce Airguns was switching over to Lothar Walther barrels in the early days, they tried barrels with and without chokes. Lothar Walther was capable of making barrels without chokes; but in their conversations with AirForce, they asked why they wanted unchoked barrels. After testing, AirForce decided it was well worth the additional cost to have all their barrels choked.
In the three years that I worked at AirForce, I tested every rifle that was returned to the company for inaccuracy. That must have been 20-30 rifles, in all. Every time one came in with such a complaint, the first thing I did was clean the barrel with J-B Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound, and the next thing I did was shoot a group with the clean barrel. In all that time, I only had to shoot a single group with each barrel to produce a 5-shot group that ranged between 0.25 inches and 0.375 inches at 23 yards (which was the longest straight distance I had inside the old factory). Then, the rifle was packed with the target that I signed and dated and returned to the customer. Case closed.
Only once in three years did I find a barrel that I couldn’t get to shoot. It was an 18-inch .22-caliber Talon barrel that I’d cleaned several times. It just would not group better than 0.75 inches at 23 yards. It stumped me until I pushed a pellet through the bore with a cleaning rod, starting at the breech. There was no choke! Somehow, this barrel had slipped through the Lothar Walther manufacturing process without getting a choke, and it would not shoot.
So far, I’ve been talking about chokes that are intentionally put into the barrels, but there are the unintentional kind, as well. Certain spring rifles such as the HW 80 and older versions of the Beeman R1 used to come with sights. The barrels of those rifles had dovetail grooves for the front sight swaged into the front of the barrel. When the swage upset the outside of the barrel to make these grooves, the metal inside the bore was distorted just a little at the same time. If you push a pellet through these barrels, you’ll feel it pause when it gets to where the dovetails begin. This isn’t a real choke, but it does feel like one when you test for it this way. Shooters have referred to these as choked barrels for decades.
You’re looking at the end of the dovetail grooves (those small v-shaped nicks on both sides of the top of the barrel) that were swaged into this R1 barrel to attach the front sight. When this is done, the force of the swaging process upsets metal inside the bore, making it feel like a choke — but it really isn’t.
Spring guns probably don’t need to be choked. When they fire the intense blast of air they generate, it irons the pellet’s skirt out into the bore. As long as the barrel remains uniform throughout its length (and not all barrels do), the pellet is fit to the bore by this action. But a pneumatic or a gas gun releases its compressed air or gas more gradually and doesn’t distort the pellet. So, a choked barrel is the way to make all pellets uniform before they leave the muzzle of these airguns.
How are barrels choked?
Years ago, chokes were put into barrels with reamers just before they were rifled. In other words, the choke was cut directly into the metal of the bore. But with the advent of button- and broach-rifling, it’s easier to rifle the barrel first and then squeeze it down afterwards.
I read with interest where one of our readers was advising someone that a barrel had to be annealed before choking it by the squeezing method, and then hardened afterward. Actually, air rifle and rimfire barrels are made from dead soft steel, or steel that is nearly dead soft. They are not hardened in any way and can be distorted very easily. You could choke a barrel by tapping the outside with a ball peen hammer — though it won’t be uniform, and I certainly don’t recommend trying it.
Chokes can be rolled into barrels with hardened steel rollers set in fixtures that apply force gradually. Someone asked if a tubing cutter would work for this, and I have the answer. No, it won’t work. It will crimp the barrel, but it’s too sloppy and difficult to control a hand tool like a tubing cutter. I know this because I had Dennis Quackenbush convert a tubing cutter for me several years ago, and I attempted to choke barrels this way. But a precision jig that applies equal force to precision rollers that are similar to the function of a tubing cutter is certainly one good way to choke a rifle barrel.
Another way is to run the barrel straight into a tapered die and swage in the choke — similar to resizing a cartridge during reloading, only a lot more force is required. To do it that way requires that the outside of the barrel be held to very close tolerances, so it’s less desirable than the tapered roller method.
A third way to choke a barrel is to squeeze it together from the outside, using a die made in two pieces. The pieces come together, compressing the barrel between them. Like the other method that uses a die, this method also requires a barrel of a given outside diameter.
If you hammer-forge the barrel (cold-forming the barrel around a hardened mandrel that has the rifling pattern in reverse), the choking can be done when the mandrel is made. Simply make the mandrel with a taper, and the barrel that’s ironed around it will also be tapered.
Companies select the method of choking that suits their barrel manufacturing methods. In other words, if they make hammer-forged barrels, that’s the most convenient time to put in the choke. But if they sell only one choked barrel for every thousand barrels they make, rolling in the choke probably makes more sense.
Quick and dirty
Here are some facts from this report.
1. Choked barrels do seem to shoot more accurately — all other things being equal (meaning the barrels are of equally high quality).
2. Not all rifled barrels are choked.
3. Spring gun barrels may have chokes that are unintentional.
4. There are several different ways of choking a barrel.
5. Companies select the most cost-effective way to choke the barrels they make.
While you may feel compelled right now to run out and find a way to choke every rifled barrel you own, remember this — it may not be necessary. Some barrels that are not choked do just fine the way they are.
However, having written this report, I find that I am now thinking about choking the barrel on my BSA Meteor to see if that helps with the mediocre accuracy.
101 thoughts on “Why choke a barrel?”
Well, It was a thought.
I just ran a few q tips in front of wadcutters down the barrel of this springer. Nastay! Looks like I’ll be busy tomorrow.
If choking don’t help the BSA Meteor, ask to Dennis cut 2inches off the muzzle and re-crown it. While I think you did a good job of re-crown I also think that jig you used might of ruined the rifling.
The Meteor is another story. Not to put you down. But That will be another interesting story when it gets finalized. I have a idea about whats going on there but all in due time we will see. Sorry I may be wrong about what I think. But notice I have not said yet.
But I will say. I did say what I thought when BB did that blog. We will see. And I will say this that I think you are right also about how the crown was done on the Meteor ok.
I admit I jumped the gun on this one Sorry.
Do not be sorry. You have been on the money about a lot of things that has been talked about.
Even if I’m wrong it doesn’t matter to me. That just usually works out that I have become smarter if you know what I mean. 😉
So I’d need a printing press, multispeed bicycle, jackshaft and roller bearings..? Yeah,I got this!JK 😉
Instead of cutting the choke of a springer would lapping the choke out sound like a viable option or too difficult to control as well?
off a springer
What is the benefit? And can you accurately reproduce it? How much will it reduce your group size and are you willing to take a chance of messing up a good gun.
Ok well maybe looking at it from the point like you or me look at it. If the gun was free or cheap enough. We could probably cut the barrel off about 2 inches. Now we should crown the barrel and take some shots to establish a pattern or group. Then we need to do our little choke trick however we decide to do it. Then we should take some shots and see what the group/pattern looks like.
And probably we need to do this inside to eliminate any other variables.
Then the magic moment comes. But see what I mean. If the factory does it. Great! But to go to the trouble of re choking a barrel I don’t see it feasible. And to worry about if I got it right. And then if I was to reproduce the result for multiple people. Sorry but I ain’t that good. Take it as you wiil.
In an overlength springer barrel this may significantly reduce drag.
I found the answer to at lest one of your questions. See my comment @1:14pm
I think you misunderstand my viewpoint. I have never wanted to shorten a barrel. I always felt that a longer barrel was inherently more accurate. This blog, and conferring with Rifledna, has pushed me to make this an exception, in the case of springers. My concept of the Prototype tool sprang from slumber after considering options for my worn out 760 barrel, which is useless in its’ current state. As for springers that appear to be overchoked, I still like the idea of a longer barrel and may prefer to keep the length but maybe lap some of the choke down, for the best of both worlds.
I hope this clears things up
Go on the PA site and find yourself a pellet that has a little bigger head diameter. Not going to say that will do the trick but you just might be surprised.
Could be a simple way to bring your 760 back to life.
I agree and this is part of my plan.
Lap out the choke? How would that even be done? Lapping means removing small imperfections in the metal — smoothing it. Lapping is not supposed to change the dimensions.
By simply concentrating your effort in the tight spot.
This is probably a bit of a silly question but I was just wondering.
you said the hw80 doesnt have a choked which I have no reason not to question
your knowledge of these.
But is this the same for the R1, as it doesn’t have a front sight just a muzzle brake . It makes sense not to go to all that effort to choke the barrel for it to be altered when it gets pressed for the front sight
It feels like the dove tail was cut/crimped up(or from the sides) in a press on HWs front sights. I’ve heard some owners had to file down the dove tail to install some muzzle breaks. But the new generation Beeman R1 don’t have the dove tail cut under the muzzle breaks.
To the best of my knowledge, the new R1 that doesn’t have front sights has no choke.
Those people were sending in their AirForce guns to get a autographed target that you shot from their gun.
Do you know how much one of those guns and targets are worth today. 😉
So is a choked bbl.less pellet picky and
able to shoot more pellets accurately
than an unchoked bbl.?
The short answer is no.
The long answer is it can help the results of different pellets and it might actually help to make it less pellet picky. If you open a tin of pellets and measure all of their widths (head and tail), you might be amazed at the variances. Choking will help to “straighten” the smaller ones as they exit the muzzle and “squeeze” the larger ones down to an even size.
As far as sproingers go, it is probably not a good idea as you do not have much power to begin with and if you choke the barrel and restrict the pellet, you will likely shave off some more of the power. Now if some of the more adventurous wish to do such and report on the results, I would like to see such.
That sounds right, but I wouldn’t say it, because I don’t know how to test it.
So is a choked barrel less pellet picky and able to shoot more pellets accurately than an unchoked barrel?
Read my answer above.
So we don’t know for sure if a choke barrel shoots a wider variety of pellets better than a non-choke barrel?
We don’t know that for sure, but we suspect it.
We also suspect that a choked barrel has better accuracy than a non-choked barrel, but testing that would be very difficult.
Perhaps if I choke the barrel of my BSA Meteor and it becomes more accurate, that will be the first solid bit of data we have seen.
I look forward to hearing if choking your BSA rifle will improve accuracy.
If possible, I (and I think others too) would like to know how you choke that barrel, perhaps a article or two about the details of how you choke your barrel, thanks!
You can bet your last dollar that I will tell you exactly how I choke that barrel, and whether it works of not.
Quick and dirty
6. You can over choke and create a very inaccurate barrel that won’t shoot any pellet well
A ghost in the attic.
I’m always surprised at the number of people that are so quick to blame a ghost for the noises in their attic. Heat then cold, cold then heat causes expansion and contraction of building materials and that makes noise. Pests like squirrels, rats, coons, etc. in an attic also make noise.
In my opinion, airgunners are too quick to blame a choke and for that matter a crown on their inaccuracy problems. Especially springer shooters.
When questioned, most of these shooters haven’t tried a large enough variety of pellets, didn’t make sure all their screws were tight, eliminated their scope as a problem, didn’t check the stock inletting, haven’t perfected the hold for the specific gun they’re trying to shoot accurately with, haven’t cleaned their barrel properly, haven’t tested their breech seals, don’t know if their spring is broken, don’t know if the piston seal is burned, don’t realize that because of inherent design problems with their gun (like a loose barrel lockup that can’t be adjusted) their gun will never shoot half inch groups at 25 yards no matter what they do.
Jumping to the conclusion that you have a bad choke or bad crown is like a ghost in the attic.
Well said. I had a friend who blueprinted VW engines for Formula VW racing. His cars were always a few MPH faster than the others and people wanted to know his “secret.” The secret was — there was no secret. Just balance and perfect each engine part to the greatest extent possible and the design does the rest.
Very well said BB. As an ASE master certified auto technician for over forty years I can tell you that no two cars, trucks or any other motor vehicle will ever perform exactly the same under the exact same conditions due to manufacturing tolerances stack up. A perfect example is take a vehicle made in the 70s to 80s and you would have an engine that would last on average 100.000 miles before needing rebuilt if it was maintained on a regular 3000 mile interval. Nowadays due better metallurgy and machining tolerances and equipment engines will survive well in excess of 2 to 300,000 miles with regular maintenance and last 100.000 miles with oil changes in the 8 to 10,000 miles interval range. Some manufactures actually state oil change intervals of 7500 miles with the improvements in oil quality that is common now. So blueprinting an engine is done to get the very maximum performance from it by setting every dimension and clearance to the exactly what the engineers stated they should be.
Kevin, you really nailed it. Awhile back, someone approached me who had sent their Marauder pistol back to Crosman to be replaced 4 times because it didn’t shoot accurately. Yes, that is four different guns. Wanted to know if they bought an LW barrel if I would install it for them and get the gun shooting accurately. I politely declined.
You’re smarter than the average bear!
Good to hear from you. Hope all is well.
I was talking to Dave last night from RAI. He asked if you had that Marauder rifle double tube figured out yet.
Last time we talked you said you were working on getting the stock figured out. Just wondering how that’s coming along. Dave redone his website and wanted to know if he could put a picture of my .25 cal. Marauder on his website with his adapter for the AR butt stock. I told him I needed to talk to you about something first. Maybe I should call you.
Don’t forget the comment, I think from BB, last week. Anschutz or FWB tests every barrel they make and occassionally when they came upon a barrel that is exceptional and not overly sensitive to pellet choice, they put it aside for their National Team. If someone like FWB or Anschutz knew how to make a barrel like that every time, don’t you think they would and charge a premium? Barrel making, like many other things, is still a bit of a black art and not a science since the reason for that barrel or car engine or other mechanical part to excel over their breathern, is still not fully understood. There are just too many variables involved.
I didn’t say that, but the truth of it rings loud and clear.
Weatherby did that with their Vanguard rifles. The charged extra for the ones that shot the best. The problem with that is who wants to buy the regular ones?
Someone with less money or who is not that great a shooter.
The bigger issue might be what it says about the brand. In most mass produced stuff lower grade parts go under another brand or at least model.
Here’s one of life’s great mysteries that I never actually thought to ask about. This kind of explains to me why I have this one cheap chinese air rifles that is such a accurate gun for what it actually is that it’s one I’m reluctant to sell even though I don’t shoot it all that much. The thing is something I picked up for around $30.00 at some old store long out of business. It was a store that sold mainly chinese junk tools but they sold this air rifle and for some odd reason I bought one. It didn’t even have a name or a manufacturer marking. Fixed barrel, under lever cocking, no safety to be found. In fact it’s the ugliest gun I own with a stock I’m pretty sure it was made out of the wood they make pallets out of. All the stamped steel has sharp edges. You can’t fire it without getting your fingers sliced. And painted this ugly orange brown by an unskilled worker and a paint brush. You can see the brush strokes. But it will hit whatever you aim at. I’m thinking it has an unintentional choke and some half way decent rifling. I have the gun in storage and pushing a pellet down the bore with a cleaning rod wouldn’t work anyway because of how the gun is made and I really do not want to slice up my fingers trying to do it. So this gun will remain a mystery and a theory on why it shoots so well.
I guess even the Chinese can build an accurate gun. I’m glad you got one of the good ones,at least in terms of accuracy. If I were you I’d begin the long process of deburring and knocking off sharp edges, almost any time I handled the gun I would look for the imperfections that make the most difference and hit ’em with a file or your tool of preference.I say, if it’s a shooter, make it shootable! I can only imagine a 10m match won by a B-3, but that would be a feat!
I know a few things about the chinese and their manufacturing. Theirs is a culture of “good enough is good enough. I know they don’t change out the rifling button as often as they should. They keep using it long after they should have replaced it so rifling is hit or miss on a chinese gun made to chinese standards where nobody really cares much about quality. Most of this gun whatever it is are fairly crappy and have a hard tome hitting a barn standing in the barn. But if you get one where they had replaced that rifling cutter you get a good barrel and fair accuracy. This cheap chinese gun probably wouldn’t stand a chance against a fine 10 meter gun, but has proved itself in the field as long as I can get close enough to a pest in order to get it in my sights. But to take it out shooting now with so many fine guns I now own I have to be pretty desperate.
Some of those old Chinese guns are surprisingly accurate. I have two – a side-lever “EMEI” and an under-lever “Sea Lion” that fall into that category. Many of the later guns (mainly “Industry” brand B2’s and B3’s) are not as reliably accurate… I suspect there was an inverse relationship between quantity and quality of the product.
Side note – I was at a gun show in PA recently and one vendor was selling an Industry Brand B2, advertising it as “The most powerful air rifle made” and that it could shoot “2000 feet per second”.
Hi Vince, I’ll bite. How much did he want?
$60… about what other vendors were asking for Industry B3’s and S2’s.
Those are some pretty big claims that even the very best can’t brag about. I suspect the guy was lying and trying to lure ignorant first time airgunners to buy his junk. I have serious money into custom airguns that are specially made for pure raw hunting power and I can’t even come close to 2000 fps.
Certainly he was lying. The B2’s I tested ran in the 500’s. The powerplant just doesn’t have the energy.
Like Fred, I gotta hear this! Did it have one of those bulletproof Red Star scopes on it?
That’s simple. Its too much.
Many knowledgeable spring gun tuners claim chokes to be important on spring guns to control piston recoil and slam. This is especially mentioned on short barrel springers, an there are claims that cutting springer barrels can cause well behaved guns to become recoiling catastophes.
My own limited experience tells me that my long barreled.177″ HW35 with a modified JM-kit and JM seals is VERY sof cecoiling, but when I put my HW35K barrel om it(without the crimped muzzle dovetails) the same gun becomes noisy, and has a much sharper firing cycle, and I experience a loss of accuracy.
The piston has already slammed to a stop before the pellet is halfway up0 the barrel. I don’t see how a chike could affect that.
Good to know! Thanks for sharing.
B.B., Good luck with the choking of your Meteor! Even if it doesn’t shoot any better you’ll at least have the satisfaction! 😀
It’s a shame about the hand tool not working out, I was going to ask to borrow it for my worn out 760 barrel. Barrel taper was my biggest doubt.
I don’t know how to post a link, but I found some very intriguing information by Googling “barrel lapping”, one entitled “lapping” featuring Doug White,Kelly McMillan & Norman F Johnson, and another entitled “too much choke?” from the Home Gunsmith. Lotta good info!
here’s the other one I mentioned,https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charliedatuna.com%2Fairgun_docs%2FHand%2520Lapping%2520Tutorial.doc&ei=HFNDU9aWB6-H2AXGs4EI&usg=AFQjCNERtYEvQNhVzHBlPW9s0KzDKSfTqw&sig2=peHd-YiHlJLIQG3H2y2MKg&bvm=bv.64367178,d.b2I
Sorry Edith that ones not the one I meant and may slow things down.OOps!
If you’ll give this a minute to load, you won;t stop til you finish it. I know I didn’t!
This is off the topic of choking a barrel, nut I have a question to ask you. I have asked about it locally and have not found a definitive answer yet for the question. So here it is. A friend of mine gave me a medical oxygen tank that was his late fathers as he knew I was wanting to get into PCP airguns and thought that I could use it for charging the guns with. I know that it is a definite NO NO to use oxygen, but I was wondering if there is an adapter that would fit the valve on this tank to allow it to be filled with compressed air. I have contacted the tank manufacture and gave them the ID number stamped in the tank and was told it is rated for 2000 psi, it has a volume of 679 liters or just over 23 cubic feet and is made of aluminum. the valve on it look like it would possibly accept on of the adapter that you clamp to the valve of a scuba tank. I would like to know your experience/thoughts about the possibility of using this tank as a air source for charging PCP guns as I did just Purchase a XC60C from Mike with a pump but would like to use this air also if possible. Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated
Because of the deadly results, the compressed gas industry goes out of its way to make it difficult to connect oxygen to anything except what it is intended for. And no commercial gas supplier would ever fill such a tank with anything other than oxygen, because that would open them to liability.
Yes, it is possible to make an adapter, and, no, it is not recommended for these reasons.
I didn’t know that Lothar Walther barrels were choked. Yes, that is quite an achievement for Harry Pope to choke the full length of his barrels. That sounds like the Romans building their aqueducts so that there was a slight but regular slope over miles and miles to carry water. Maybe Pope knew their secret, but I have no idea of what it was or what he did either. Actually, I would think that a full length choke is potentially counterproductive since I thought the idea was to squeeze the pellet at the end of its travel to suppress movement. Without the sudden change at the end of the barrel perhaps you wouldn’t get the correction. But Pope’s barrels speak for themselves.
Gunfun1, one thing I can say is that I don’t expect to ever wonder how one of my guns is doing in the hands of another. I agonized over every one of my purchases and expect to keep them all for the duration. 🙂
I didn’t realize that Bob Munden, the fast draw champion, passed away in 2012. I was reading about his exploits, and it seems that he first came to fame in a contest that involved two competitors walking towards each other, drawing and firing blanks. That would give me the creeps. It is reminiscent of Brandon Lee in The Crow, having hundreds of blanks fired at him in the film only to have one of them turn out to be the real thing. I haven’t heard about this contest today. B.B. did you every do such a thing at your job in Frontier Town? As another comparison, he married his wife three months after meeting her at a fast draw contest. I guess great shooters are decisive. Another of Munden’s exploits was shooting 8 inch steel gongs with a single pistol shot at 50 yards. That’s holding a 4 inch group at 25 yards with a .45. Most impressive.
I was the Deputy Marshal on the Marshal’s day’s off and the outlaw on the outlaw’s day off. I was in hundreds of gunfights with blanks being fired at me.
And lived to tell the tale! That’s great. Did you have your routine down when you were shot? I was watching Kung Fu movies with some people once and we got to noticing that the moment of death was very stylized for both the good and the bad. After toppling to the ground, they would give a giant twitch and then lie motionless.
We gave a lot of though to all our moves and dialog. Our gunfights had to be thrilling without being frightening. We used real .45 caliber Colts with 40 grains of black powder in each blank (we loaded them ourselves) so we even had to0 make sure the crowd never got too near.
I remember a gun firing in the marshal’s holster as he drew and opening his leg, after burning though his heavy wool trousers.
I also remember a San Jose reserve cop who came out to audition as a stunt fighter extra. He brought his own revolver, loaded with wadcutters! We only found out after the gunfight that he was shooting bullets! He didn’t get the job. Said he thought they were blanks because the bullets didn’t stick past the end of the cases!
Holy crap, me and Gunfun were talking about accidents and how you cant control the world, but that is just completely moronic! Unreal nobody got hurt, was that a code brown or what? Lol
#crap#accidents#codebrown… lucky he must’ve been a bad shot!
Thought they were blanks because the wadcutters weren’t sticking out beyond the case?! He was shooting live rounds and no one knew it! He was a reserve cop?
You can’t make this stuff up. Scary. I would have lost some hair over that ordeal.
I think for some reason I would of took that one to the next level. Me and that guy would of had a problem. Something should of been done about that one.
I wasn’t in that gunfight. The Marshal found bullet holes in the wall behind where he stood, which prompted an investigation. Yes, lucky no one was hit.
I thought I was going to keep the guns I bought. But I keep finding myself wanting a new gun but short on money. So I will sell sometimes to get another.
I sold my Talon SS also. Going to get a Condor SS if all goes as planned.
>They are not hardened in any way and can be distorted very easily. You could choke a barrel by tapping >the outside with a ball peen hammer — though it won’t be uniform, and I certainly don’t recommend >trying it.
This motivates me to shop for bearings and make an air rifle barrel choking fixture, B.B.! I previously lost interest when I checked the prices of good high load bearings (even on ebay) but maybe the bearings don’t need to be quite as good as I assumed. My idea for a fixture design is to turn the barrel slowly in my lathe, while tightening the bearings at the muzzle.
I love it! good luck, Man!
Thanks for your response on the oxygen tank issue. I had pretty much found the same info off the web, but thought I would run it by you also as you have been in the industry for so long. I will search for a scuba tank or compressed air tank as my local welding supply shop does not carry anything other than gases for welding use and does not even fill them here locally they send them to their shop 60 miles north of here.
Thanks for your time Mike
The old Remington 870 and 1100 fixed choke shotgun barrels In Skeet constriction have a choke that is long and gradual. It was a good part of the entire barrel length. Those barrels shoot great patterns.
Does choking a barrel increase muzzle velocity?
I’ve read of German WWII anti tank guns that sqeezed the round from 28mm to 20mm to increase muzzle velocity.
Would choking do the same?
I don’t think so. We are talking about a very subtle reduction here.
Well, the Suburban I’ve been working on purred like a kitten today…She gave me over $300! There was no denying any part of the cash. She pointed out that tow charges,parts and professional service costs money. And liked the fact that I did housecalls
Now i’m shopping for a chrony! Is the Beta fully expandable? It looks like it’s a great place to start!
This should be interesting.
Here is the chrony that I have.
I didn’t know if that would work, and still don’t but I tried. Hope I don’t get in trouble.
That is good stuff, I’ve done a mild form of that fire lapping by running nickel lube through in patches and then firing some pellets lightly nickeled to do a kind of “chroming”. It seemed to work pretty good to fill in and smooth out the bore. Very shiny, but I know a perfectly smooth bore will actually create excessive friction so there’s a balance to be found I guess. Sounds like you can smooth out but like B.B. said you’d get to a point of removing the lands of the rifling, and Gunfun said too. I love the idea of chroming a bore so the nickel paste run through after a good cleaning makes me happy, try it if nobody yells at me! I can’t think of any harm it could do.
Check out what Charlie’s got to say up there. I just finished it and haven’t read their comments yet.
Glad someone read it!
I just went through this whole thread looking for a Charles so I guess your talking about the link, I didn’t pay attention to the names hold on….
Yes the other link ,SMH Charliedatuna?
Oh right, I didn’t see that but have read some of daTunas stuff and there’s a lot of good info there, I just had a serious duh moment reading that guys using toothpaste to lap some revolver parts…. that is such a good compound for airgun fire lapping, and so available its not even a question, Im lapping the NP out tonight, since I need to break it in and run the crown a good bit after cutting down the barrel, thanks for some good things to think about Reb!
Happy ta hooka brutha up!
So need to find a 7/16 20NF die to thread the muzzle and get the shroud back on that has been cut to fit the shorter barrel, somebody told me something about shrouds/dampeners and I said “Naaah, its cool” and must respectfully retract my disagreement, I won’t name names so as to not inflate any egos, but, yes, you told me so….. lol, big difference! It looks like a little anorexic stick barrel without it too.
There’s a fastener supplier 1 mile from my place that will build any tap or die, for a price.
I put the muzzle weight off my 953 onto my 760 to change the harmonics, slid it as far as I could both ways. Just made it heavier
Right now I’m picturing in my mind what that poor gun looks like without its shroud on. 😉
Haheehee, there is a terrible innuendo to be found there, but….. It actually doesn’t look bad, real compact/stealthy kind of looking, but it pops like a fiend, more a joke about it being naked then really looking too bad. I ain’t done with it yet though, not by a long shot. A new stock and rethreaded muzzle are the priorities right now. If its a nice wood stock and I find the right pellet then we will have a really nice gun. If not I didn’t spend a thousand bucks so I can always try again, but they always come out to be really awesome guns when In done doing everything.
I was going to ask you if you got a stock figured out. I’m thinking that the stock still attaches to the gun the same as Crosman/Benjamin attaches their other break barrel guns. Here is a idea.
I don’t know how much Crosman sells a replacement stock for their wood stock guns but I bet it will be somewhere around a 100 dollars. (just a guess on cost). But here is what I was thinking maybe you could go to WalMart and buy on of those 80 dollar break barrels if the stocks look like they mount the same. Switch the stocks on the guns and then you got a more comfortable stock on your gun that you cut the barrel down on. And then you have another gun also to mess with.
But I don’t know if the mounting will be the same. And then I don’t know if you would like that kind of conventional wood stock.
As I recall, they generally sell for $30-$40
Your probably right. I got a Discovery stock through Crosman for I think 80 bucks or so. But that was some years back. And the old brain dont remember everything without actually checking. If you know what I mean.
are all rifling twists to the left,if so why.[so ,I’ve gottrn ifie answers
Most twists are right hand (clockwise) . I doubt that it really makes any difference.
So far I have only seen two left twists. One on a muzzle loader, and the other on an over/under gun.
Would you recommend using the JB Paste on a new Talon Barrel? I do have it at home. Or would you recommend just a dry cleaning and then see how the gun shoots?
I never clean the bore unless accuracy fades. Just shoot it.
You just made my day. The less things I have to do before shooting the better.