Air Arms S410 TDR precharged pneumatic pellet rifle: Part 5

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Air Arms TDR rifle
Both side of the Air Arms S410 TDR.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

This report covers:

  • Airgun Academy videos are back!
  • The test
  • Here we go
  • Notice what is happening
  • Shooting at higher power
  • Still tipping
  • Conclusion

Airgun Academy videos are back!

The Airgun Academy videos are back and number 35 — The artillery hold — is ready to be viewed!

Look for more videos each week. Now let’s get to today’s report.

Today I take the Air Arms S410 TDR Classic out to 100 yards, to see if the accuracy we saw at 50 yards in Part 4 continues. This will be an interesting report for all who think that going from 50 to 100 yards means simply doubling the size of the groups.

You really should read Part 4 again, because that was where I finally learned how the test rifle wants to be operateΒ and what pellet it likes best. When I started today’s 100-yard test, the rifle was set exactly as it had been for 50 yards and I was careful to fill it to 2900 psi with the Air Venturi G6 hand pump.

The test

I shot the rifle off a sandbag rest that was sitting on a concrete shooting table. The day was cold (37 degrees F) and the air was dead calm. I used the 16-grain Air Arms dome that was the most accurate and consistent pellet at 50 yards in part 4.

Here we go

The first shot took some time getting downrange, but since there was no wind that wasn’t a problem. The shot landed 30 inches below the aim point. The rifle was sighted dead-on at 50 yards, so that gives some idea of how much drop there is. We know from velocity testing in Part 2 that the pellet starts out traveling about 760 f.p.s. on this power setting. The amount of drop was not disconcerting to me. I expected it and had the target stapled on top of a 24-inch by 48-inch backer paper — just so I could get the groups.

Ten shots made a group that measures 4.082-inches between centers. The first 2 shots landed high, then the next 8 dropped about 2 more inches. Those last 8 shots grouped 2.754-inches, which is a lot tighter than the group of 10. I think the first 2 shots were either waking up the rifle’s air valve or else the pressure in the reservoir was slightly too high.

Air Arms TDR rifle 100 yards group 1
At 100 yards, 10 shots landed in 4.082-inches, with 8 of them in 2.754-inches. The center of this group was 30 inches below the aim point. Notice the tearing is all going in the same direction. The pellets were all tipped the same way when they hit the paper.

Notice what is happening

The size of the group is just part of the story. It’s also important to examine the holes, as they give us some very important information. Most of the holesΒ in the group of 8 that landed lower are torn sideways. The pellets didn’t pass through point-on. The pellets had tipped in flight and were passing through the paper on an angle. They might have been wobbling around their long axis in flight, but the angle of the tip seems constant, so it’s a good guess that they were yawing in flight — tipping to one side and holding that tip consistently all the way downrange. That yaw would have slowed their flight, because more of the pellet was exposed to the air stream.

It’s difficult to say whether the 2 pellets at the top have tipped, because the hole they made in the paper is not distinct. But that difference between these 2 holes and the 8 holes below made me wonder if driving this pellet faster would correct whatever was happening in flight. So I cranked the power up almost all the way and loaded a second magazine.

Shooting at higher power

On high power the pellets dropped about 24 inches at 100 yards, which is 6 inches less than they droppedΒ on medium power. Ten pellets landed in a group that measures 4.516-inches between centers. That means the power setting that was most accurate at 50 yards (medium) is also most accurate at 100 yards. This high-power group is more vertical than the first one.

Air Arms TDR rifle 100 yards group 2
Shooting on high power at 100 yards, 10 shots landed in 4.516-inches, in a very vertical pattern. This group was 24 inches below the aim point. The tears are still going in pretty much the same direction.

Still tipping

You can see by the holes that the pellets are still passing through the paper tipped. The orientation appears to be similar that of the pellets in the first group, though the amount of tipping looks to be a little less on high power and a couple holes don’t have it at all. If I am right about the pellets yawing, and the results of this group do seem to confirm that they are, then it appears the S410 TDR isn’t driving this pellet fast enough to stabilize it out to 100 yards. It always flies in a tipped orientation.

Conclusion

From the results of this test I conclude that the Air Arms S410 TDR is accurate to 50 yards, but beyond that range, the Air Arms pellet is probably not the best pellet to use in this rifle. More testing would need to be done to find a pellet that would fly true to greater distances.

Yesterday we talked about the stability of round balls when spun by rifling. Today we see some results of a diabolo pellet at a distance where instability shows up visibly. Diabolo pellets are supposed to stabilize themselves (fly point-first) in flight because they fly with their weight forward like darts, and also because their flared skirts and hollow tails create drag that should make them point straight ahead. Today we see that doesn’t always happen. This is where testing in the field trumps reading on the internet. Sometimes things just don’t go as you think they should, and you have to experience it.

This is the last test I have planned for the S410 TDR. Yes, I could probably find a better pellet and get tighter groups at 100 yards, but that wasn’t why I tested the rifle at this distance. I did it to see what would happen to an accurate rifle when the distance went from 50 to 100 yards. As you can see — it is not linear. That is the teaching point today, I think

65 thoughts on “Air Arms S410 TDR precharged pneumatic pellet rifle: Part 5

  1. I wanna hear Gunfun’s take on this with him being the most prolific long range airgun shooter but I think he’d probably agree with my belief that 16gr is a little light for a .22 pellet to fly 100yds.probably about right for a .177 though.


    • Reb
      I do want to make a comment on this. I seen it on some of my air guns out at a hundred yards and some guns don’t do it.

      I actually put some paper out at 65, 75, 85 and 100 yards this last weekend. Well and some cans after that found my holds from shooting at the paper. I had those type of pellet holes from my lower powered guns and the .177 caliber guns at that.

      The .177 air guns I was shooring is the now tuned up Tx and 300. By tuned up I mean I got the power up now on both guns to help with the windy conditions that I have out here at the house I’m at now. So they are making pretty good velocity with the JSB 10.34’s. They had the sideways type tear in the target.

      The other 2 guns I was shooting was the .22 caliber Talon SS with the JSB 15.89’s and the .25 caliber Marauder shooting the H&N Barracudas that weigh 31.02 grain. They are both making pretty good power too. But they did not have the sideways type hole.

      I believe it is all caused by the pellets trajectory not a yaw ( Sorry BB I’m just saying what I think. It could be yaw the way it left the barrel.) I think the pellet is on its downward path of the trajectory where its at its greatest angle to the target. That’s obvious by how much hold over you had to put into your shot.

      Now the sideways hit there is something else that’s happening. Whatever direction rifling the gun has the pellet will tend to go that direction when it flys also. And when its already in that nose down flight path there could be some movement to the left or right in its flight path because of the spin the rifling induced.

      But what it is mostly from is that I believe the pellet is getting out of its effective range because the pellet is slowing down in forward movement and gravity is pulling the pellet down faster. Most trajectory’s on a air gun are arched. Some flatter than others. But towards the end of the flight the pellet drops off the most for the distance its covering.

      The .177 guns did not show that funny nose down sideways type tear as I stared getting in closer. The Tx started looking like a normal hole at the 75 yard target. The 300 started getting normal holes at the 65 yard targets. So I would say where the holes got true and normal looking was probably the limit of that pellet shooting from that gun.

      I haven’t put paper out farther than 100 yards. But I’ll bet the Marauder and the Talon SS would start seeing those type of holes like BB and I got. At some point in the pellets flight the juice is going to start running out. At that point the pellet can no way still be flying straight and level like it is at 15 or 20 yards.

      I think those pellets holes that look like they are hitting at a strange angle is because in a sense it’s like the trajectory that a tank shoots at. I never shot a tank but from what I have seen they have a pretty arched trajectory and the round is not flying level when it hits. BB correct me if I’m wrong about the way the projectile flys from a tank.

      Oh and BB the 2.7″ group at 100 yards is great. And we’re just not going to count those other two flyers of the 10 shots today ok. πŸ˜‰


      • GF1,

        Great little blurb there, thanks! I just set up my new range with markers at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. I have tried my Edge Mini-Sniper out to 50 yards so far. Once I install an 18 inch barrel, I am going to stretch it’s legs out there. Right now I am a bit preoccupied with a 46E. πŸ˜‰


        • RR
          You seen the picture of my target from the 300 at 50 yards.

          It’s making it out to there just fine. And like I said above about 65 yards and I’m starting to have to put more hold in than I normally like. At the 75 yard mark I had to put even more hold in. The pellets was still making a fair group but you cold see that the pellet was hitting the paper at a angle. 85 yards and it was like the pellet was almost pointed straight down.

          So if you truly want to know the effective distance of a pellet gun put some paper out and look at your target. If the hole is not true you probably have a lot of hold over in the gun and the pellet is on that down hill steep angle at the end of its flight.

          That 300 will shoot alot farther than 100 yards even. But it would be like dropping a bomb on the target instead of shooting straight at the target.

          And where in the world did you find a 46e? πŸ™‚



        • BB
          Soon as I read your results today I was happy that you showed that.

          Sometimes it’s hard to visualize what that pellet is doing when it fly’s. But that is really one of the most important things to know. When a person knows that it helps them know how to use that gun better.

          That’s one of the reasons I like the Chairgun ballistic calculator because it is set up with air guns in mind. It does show a person the pellets flight path. And although it’s not exact to the actual shooting results of the gun you plot. It still is pretty close and will show you how that pellet fly’s.


      • Thanks for the input!
        It was obvious to me that the pellets were running outta steam way out there.
        I believe the BC of this pellet is too low for this long of a shot and one with a more nose heavy profile should fare better.
        This gun has the power to put them out that far but barely and it’s straining t do so.


        • Reb
          Your probably right about the heavier pellet. They do retain their energy better than a lighter pellet of the same caliber.

          But the gun still has to make a given amount of power to make that heavier pellet fly. What that heavier pellet should do is help you strech the distance out for that gun.

          But there is still going to be a effective distance that heavy pellet will work in. It is still going to rapidly drop off at the end of its flight path.


    • I’d like to thank you for this test and apologize to anyone who believes my statement souned harsh.
      Yesterday was not a good day for me and I should probably have just let someone else get the comments started.
      Now it’s time to set today up for success.
      Good day everyone!


  2. Fantastic video on the ARTILLERY hold.

    This will save me gobs of time. Someone needs to correct the spelling on the video from Artilery to Artillery so folks that search for it can find it.

    Kevin




      • B.B.,

        Awesome, I’ve been hoping for the next part to come soon. I read everyday so I’ve been watching for it. Im so excited to get my P30. It should get here on Friday, I can’t wait. II actually almost bought a Walther CPM-1 instead but someone else emailed the seller and bought it minutes before I emailed, then I found the P30. Oh and on a side note. I ordered your book from amazon and the day it came in the mail I sat down at my dining room table to check it out, maybe read a few pages. I read the entire book cover to cover without putting it down. It actually made up my mind to finally buy myself a Daisy no.25. I’ve been eyeing the Daisy 25 in the PA catalog for awhile. Reading about it in your book was cool. I gotta have me one now lol. Looking forward to part 2 on the FWB C2. Thanks again!

        Mitch


  3. Thanks for giving it a try at 100yds.. That is always a treat. Glad to see the videos back, and I might add,….your are looking as great as ever.

    I will have to give the artillery hold another try. I lay the fore end on a solid wood rest topped with foam gasket. Supposed to be nice Fri. and Sat. so I will give it a try at 50 yds. I remember the hold giving a less steady sight picture, but I am sure that speaks more to me rather than the hold. Already put in to take Fri. off. Very rare weather for a Dec. in OH.



      • B.B.,

        Thanks for the input/advice. My first rest was small soft sided cooler with 3 3# rice bags in it. It was a good alternative to buying a bag at the time. That bag is now the rear support when laying the gun down…not used for shooting. I will re-try it Fri. and Sat. Yes, that is the TX, and the LGU…..the only 2 rifles I own. Oh yea, the Red Ryder 75th. and the 499,…. bb shooters.


    • Chris USA
      I shoot all my guns off that Monkey bag now. I’m totally happy with the results.

      And BB is right about the Tx being able to shoot of the flat more solid surface.

      Wait and see what happens if you get a chance to shoot some other types of spring guns. The best I can say is you will appreciate your Tx and LGU even more. Other springers are not as forgiving when you shoot them.




          • GF1,

            I had been meaning to ask you if you were still using the “Monkey Bag”. Glad it is working for you.
            I may have to look into a bag since “all you pro shooters” use ’em. πŸ˜‰

            As for “spoiled”,….I give all the credit to B.B., the blog and all the fine people here. I never get spoiled and do it for myself even less often. This is one time I am glad I did. Now,….if I can only out shoot “them”. May be a few on that one,…… πŸ˜‰


            • Chris USA
              I don’t know about a pro shooter. I just like to shoot. And I like to give myself some challenges. But yes I like the Monkey bag. It keeps the gun in place nice.

              And I like mixing it up a bit plus helps me keep in practice. You know what they say about practice.

              As for spoiled. I was just basically agreeing with you. Remember you said it not me.
              πŸ™‚


  4. B.B.,

    I take away from this 100 yard test that this just might not be the right tool for THIS job. But then again, with a different pellet. However, it is a take-down, survival type of rifle, not an Airforce Texan or Condor, although the Escape is a compact survival rifle that can reach out, isn’t it?

    I did like the part you wrote about being unconcerned about the amount of pellet drop. It reminded me of a report in which someone commented about how much fun he has shooting his Crosman 650, even if it does have “rainbow trajectories.” Your response was, “Rainbow trajectories are not a problem if one knows his rifle.”

    That is one of my favorite airgunning quotes.

    Michael


  5. BB

    I just wanted to say that last Friday’s blog ( /blog/2015/12/when-i-was-a-kid/ ) was one of the best you have ever written. I had read many bits and pieces of the story from blogs past, but the way that one linked them all together was not only brilliant but hilarious. You had me in stitches.

    I really don’t think you were a dork though. You were merely underappreciated in your time. Dorks say, “nifty” not “the bees knees”. In any case I think that you are the cat’s pajamas.

    I am very happy to see the new Airgun Academy video. It is a perfect explanation of the artillery hold and spring-powered rifles in general. What I want to know is who is that handsome devil in the video? That guy is going places.


  6. BB,

    Speaking of nice air rifles, I just worked out a deal with GunFun1 for his RWS Diana 46E. In an old blog of yours you commented that this air rifle was designed to be a direct competitor of the TX200 and HW77. I spent a little time Saturday and Sunday shooting this rifle with open sights at 10 yards. Let us say that I am very impressed. I am looking forward to mounting a scope on this thing.

    As for the trigger, I find it hard to imagine that a Rekord or Air Arms trigger is better. It is so nice and light and clean and crisp that it makes my knees weak.


    • RR
      I’m glad your happy with the 46e.

      But I have to say this from my personal experience with the 46e and Tx. The 46e trigger is nice. But the Tx trigger blows it away.

      If you ever get a Tx you will be totally surprised about how opposite the characteristics of the two guns are. But don’t take me wrong the 46e is a nice gun. But the Tx is better. But that’s just my opinion.

      Only one way to find out for yourself. Now you got to get you a Tx. And no I’m not getting rid of my Tx. Sorry. πŸ˜‰


      • GF1,

        What you runnin’ there?…… “Guns-Funs-R-Us”,…… πŸ˜‰ Or,…maybe the “tried and proven” at a bargain price?

        Either way,….keep at it! Oh yea,…Reb’s comment at the top,….”most prolific long range airgun shooter”,….man,..it does not get any better than that! πŸ™‚


        • Chris USA
          Well kind of went like this. RidgeRunner has been looking for a springer. He liked the 46e and we have been doing some talking.

          Let’s just say he had a gun I wanted also. So we swapped.

          And about the prolific long range shooter thing. I guess I just talk about it. I bet there is some other people that shoot air guns long range to but just may not want to say. Who knows.

          But what do you call long range for a air gun? I think myself that 65-75 yards is doable if your plinking or paper shooting. 85 and out starts getting tuffer but some air guns will do that with no problem. And then are a few that can go out past the 100 yard mark with no problem.

          Just got to find the right air gun for what you want to do.


          • GF1,

            Glad it all worked out. As for you,….I think I speak for many here,….you (do) shoot a lot and you (do) tell about it and you (do) share your results and you (do) switch up what you are shooting…..

            …..and maybe most valuable,…you (do) share your thoughts on what works,..and not,..and why.

            That is invaluable information. Thank you.


            • Chris USA
              Thanks a bunch for saying that.

              And just trying to share what I have had happen when I shoot.

              Remember results can vary in different situations so don’t base everything off of what I say. Best thing to do is try things and pay attention to what happens and document them. And you know that already.

              You have shared alot of info throughout time also as well as others. So hopefully we can all keep doing that as we can all learn something that way.

              The way I see it every little bit and peice helps.


              • GF1,

                Tru Dat! Translation,….(there is a lot of truth to that). Learned that from one of the youngin’s at work.

                What I share is through a “newbies” point of view. That is good too. There is plenty of us out there. Thing is,…if I keep hanging around here,….I won’t have the “newbie” excuse anymore!!

                πŸ˜‰ Chris


  7. Hi Tom,
    I just wanted to thank you for your advice regarding a thirty year old RWS model 50 I got from my Uncle. I was excited to hear back from you and appreciated it very much. The model fifty is breaking in nicely and seems to like super domes(.177). This is my first European airgun and I am impressed. One more question though. There is a burning smell when I shoot it repeatedly. I’m assuming that’s the excess chamber oil or grease in the bore from manufacturing(It had never been used). I don’t know the best way to clean a tap loading rifle. Do I have anything to worry about?
    Thanks again for your time and expertise. Brad


    • Brad,

      You have nothing to worry about. That smell is oil that burns off with each shot. It’s called dieseling and all spring piston airguns that shoot over about 600 f.p.s. do it all the time.

      Some guns have a smell and other guns have smoke that can be seen with each shot. It’s all perfectly normal. Just keep shooting the gun and do nothing to it. It doesn’t even need to be cleaned. Just shoot it.

      B.B.


  8. Hi Tom. I seem to recall reading about the artillery hold first in relation to a qualification session you conducted whilst in the armed forces. Rather than rifles, you were using pistols – in fact 1911A1s from the armoury stock, and a high ranking officer asked to qualify alongside the men. I believe he held the pistol in a loose one-handed grip and got brilliant scores seemingly without effort. I’ve recently come back to pistol shooting after a break of more than 20 years (since the Dunblane massacre in the 90s), but here in the UK it’s difficult now for the private citizen to keep a regular “explosive” firearm. So I’ve dug out my old HW45, cleaned it up and am starting to get my eye back in. However, I always used a two-handed grip in the past with my Safari Arms 1911. Can you offer some video instruction on the artillery hold for a Colt-like air pistol, please?

    As it happens, I made this comment on your YouTube video page (No. 35), and was instructed to make it here instead. However, it seems to me to be off-topic beneath a post about a rifle test. Would you point me to the correct place to ask questions/post comments about off-topic topics, please?


    • Max,

      Welcome to the blog.

      Nothing is off topic here. It has to remain family friendly, but you can talk about anything that deals with airguns.

      Instead of making you a video, Ill give you the link that you rtemembered seeing:

      /blog/2011/05/beeman-p1hw-45-air-pistol-part-3/

      And here is the last report in that series:

      /blog/2011/05/beeman-p1hw-45-air-pistol-part-4/

      B.B.


  9. Friends, Just a note to thank all who offered advice, especially, Michael, Reb and Jim Q. I’ve tried lots of pellets in the 618 but no joy. I followed Michael’s tip and bought a 2100. Much better accuracy even at two pumps. I also read BB’s posts on the 1077 and bought one of those too. Again better accuracy than the 618’s and lots of fun. I’m thinking about the HW30s….but have to wait for Santa. Thanks all!!!


    • Multi-pumps are much easier to shoot than spring guns and from what I’ve seen the 2100 is the way to go. I have a Remington Airmaster which is the same gun only in black and it’s been one of the best airguns I’ve ever had the pleasure of owning, it’s accurate to about 80yds with a cheap 4×32 scope and never failed.
      I picked up a couple 766’s at an airgun show and have high expectations for what the older brother is capable of.
      Good choice but don’t let the 618 just sit in a closet and rot.
      What are your plans for it?


  10. Got back from grocery shopping and got another note involving another mandatory inspection scheduled for the 10th.
    I gotta get outta this place!
    Supposed to get the results of my stress test with an appointment for 2:00.
    They had the results last week but can’t give them to me without a consultation which I’m concerned about.
    Good name for it! Just really bad timing!


    • I was dressed and walking out to get in the car when the receptionist at the cardiologist called to reschedule. Now instead of rescheduling they can miraculously have a nurse call with the results sometime before 5:00.
      I’m about to totally lose it!



        • No, so far all I’ve been able to get them to do is cover the deposit on my apartment. They said it was a program designed to keep veterans from becoming homeless. I only spent 11 months and 17 days in before being discharged for failure to adapt to a military lifestyle. My first sergeant was ensuring I lost all privileges by inspecting my room herself. In the end I lost my stripe and was discharged but my commander(also female) saw what was happening and took one of her stripes which knocked her down from a master sergeant to a tech sergeant so she was reclassified and relocated.
          I still recall the captain’s name but not the first sergeant otherwise I would have probably already initiated a review. Very political environment in the military! If someone doesn’t like you for whatever reason your life is guaranteed to be rough. I was only 17 when I went in and was gonna retire then start a civilian career. But instead of retirement I’m now disabled due to too much stress.


          • Reb,

            Well,…all I can say is that you signed up and “put yourself out there”. That is more than most, including me. Get what you can get. You earned it by signing up. At least that is my take on it. On top of that, you were willing to go the distance and retire. Wars aside, get past the first few years and it sounds pretty good from what I have heard from other 20 year’ers.



    • I doubt any pellet will ensure a 10 every time.
      Just be sure to put a few rounds through it every now and then and if it has a leather seal like mine a few drops of oil to keep it plyable.


    • I recall tightening my grip on the pistol grip just at the end of the shot cycle working well with mine.
      WEIRD, Huh?
      If you decide to let one go let me know. I’m gonna see how this 160 turns out for now.


  11. B.B.,

    I am way behind reading the blog. I have been tied up with my band making a C.D. but I wanted to address filling the TDR with a hand pump.

    Maybe someone has pointed this out already. I have two Air Arms rifles, the S510 and the S410 MPR FT. Rapid Air Weapons sells a foster fill nipple that you can replace the Air Arms “T” connector with that allows you to use your air tank as usual. You simply unscrew the “T” connector and screw this one in. I have put it on both of my Air Arms rifles.

    I just thought some readers might like to know about this.

    G&G


  12. That’s interesting about the consistently tipped orientation. A pellet in flight has axial symmetry, so I could see yawing and other deviations in any direction away from the axis, but for them all to deviate the same way is mysterious.

    Otherwise, this mirrors my own experience of shooting my Anschutz at 100 yards. In a lot of ways, this gun mimics airguns, at least relative to higher calibers. Anyway, what seems to be a sub .5 inch group at 50 yards was a little over 1 inch at 100 yards. Partly, that was me since I have done better, but there is noticeable deterioration. Looking through the scope, I could see a significant delay before the bullet hit the berm. On the subject of comparing ranges, I wonder if time would be a basis of comparison. If the .22LR took say 1 second to travel 100 yards, would the trajectory be the same as what a 30-06 makes for the distance that it covers in an equivalent time? So the Anschutz at 100 yards be equivalent to a 30-06 at 300 yards?

    Matt61


    • Matt61,

      While you are pondering the “mysteries” of airgunning,…I have had all 10 pellets do the same at 30yds. only to have them return to a “clean hole” pattern the 10 after,…no wind. Figure that out and let me know,….I am still trying to. Hold, I am figuring, but that does not exactly “jive”. A worse group,..yes. But not an all sideways landing. As GF1 has said,….just when you think you got it “all” figured out,….those air guns will throw you a “twist”.





        • Reb,

          Just re-read the article. BB did try higher power and while the holes looked better, the group was worse. Obviously pushing the limits! Perhaps at 75yds. it would do good/better. GF gave a good example of that. At least when you see “tipping”,…you know that you have gone too far! πŸ˜‰




            • Reb
              That’s possible the fill pressure could of been on the high side for those first two shots.

              And some pcp guns need the valve knocked one or two times before a shot of the gun if it ain’t shot for a while.

              If I’m remembering right the AirForce guns say to give a warm up shot so to speak if you adjust the power wheel.

              But most of the time if I’m out target practicing and its my first shot of the day on the gun I shoot a couple shots at my 15 yard target just to get the gun warmed up I guess I’ll call it. Then I move out to the farther distance targets and then start shooting my 5 or 10 shot group.

              I have even got into the habit of doing that with my spring guns. I think it helps.


              • I just thought it was a really good start for the group and had the other eight done the same we’d be having a totally different conversation about the gun. This gun has proven itself to be finicky about tank pressure and is way too expensive to not have that bug worked out before going on the market. So I’m not gonna make excuses for it but if I notice something that could make it a better gun and don’t say it how’s it supposed to get back to Air Arms?


                • Reb
                  I just looked at the targets in part 4 at 50 yards and today’s 100 yard targets again.

                  Pretty sure if BB would shoot the gun in closer at 80 yards then say 65 yards I bet the groups will start resembling the 50 yard groups. The closer he starts getting to 50 yards the more the way the pellet hit will start getting similar.

                  The power of the gun and weight of the pellet and coefficient (or drag of the pellet flying) of the pellet is pushing that pellets limmit at 100 yards. If the velocity would be able to be adjusted even higher I believe the pellet hit would get more true. The gun just ain’t making enough power for that distance with that pellet.


  13. BB

    I am wondering if at 100 yards consistently verticality of the cross hairs is important for group sizes. In other words, if we are not consistent with reticle orientation by holding the rifle slightly sideways, can the group sizes increase significantly? This is considering the relative low velocity of the pellets and consequent drop

    T.E.



      • B.B.,

        “have a way of ensuring shoot that I shoot in the same orientation every time”….what would that be?

        Besides a level,…or a good “sense of level”,….I am curious. You are not one to hold anything back,…quite the opposite. I figure that it might be something I missed. I have a good sense of level, but I do not rule out any ideas on improvement. Sooooo?


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