by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy 853.
This report covers:
- A couple things before we begin
- RWS Hobbys
- Results before oiling
- How much oil?
- Results after oiling
- Second oiling results
- What’s next?
I hit a home run with this one! many of you already own 853/753 rifles, and a lot of you have been waiting to get one. I now wonder why it took me 11 years to get to it?
A couple things before we begin
Today we look at velocity of the used 853 I recently bought, and I have couple things to say before we start. First, if the velocity is low, it’s not a problem, because one of the brilliant things about an 853 is how easy it is to overhaul. Daisy supplies the parts at low cost, and there are plenty of websites that walk you though installation. So if the power is low, I will rebuild the powerplant for you. Daisy rates it at 510 f.p.s, so that’s our baseline.
Next, I want to show you how I treat a new pneumatic. Pneumatics need oil on their o-rings and other seals to do their best. My plan is to start the velocity test with RWS Hobby pellets and shoot them from the rifle in the condition I received it. This is a used rifle, and I have a suspicion that it has seen lots of use. But it hasn’t been neglected. I can tell that from the smoothness of the action when I cock it. I bought it in an auction, and who knows how long it sat since the last time it was oiled? We will have a before and after result for comparison, and the light Hobby pellet will give us the fastest velocity we can get with a lead pellet.
RWS Hobbys
Welcome to the magic isle of Serendib! The average for the first 10 shots was 384 f.p.s. It doesn’t take a lot of experience with airguns to know that is low, if the average is supposed to be 510 f.p.s.
The spread went from a high of 416 f.p.s. on shot one to a low of 354 f.p.s. on shot four. That’s a large spread of 62 f.p.s. in a single-stroke pneumatic that should be less than 20 f.p.s. That’s another clue the seals are worn.
The 853 has been around long enough that its average was computed with a lead pellet when it first came on the market. Lead-free pellets were all but unknown in 1984, and once a company computes a velocity, they seldom go back and redo it, because it messes up all their published literature. This gun needs seals. So, we are in for an overhaul!
Results before oiling
I took a picture of the felt wiper and the o-ring seal on the pump head before I oiled it. The picture tells me everything. The felt is worn out — either deteriorated from use or, more likely, it was never oiled. Whatever the case, the gun needs a new felt wiper. And its condition tells me that all the seals need to be replaced.
The felt/foam wiper ring was bone-dry before I oiled it.
This photo was taken after oiling the felt wiper many times. One-hundred drops? Who knows?
How much oil?
This is where I depart from all the manuals. If you are anal, better skip this part and go directly to the results after oiling. Because I do not put 5 drops or even 10 drops of oil into a dry pneumatic. I probably put 50-150 drops — and I don’t count them! I oil the felt wiper and let it soak in, then I oil it many more times Oil and soak, oil and soak. With a single stroke I then work the pump handle up and down to spread the oil on the inside walls of the compression chamber, then I oil it again.
This time the felt wiper sucked up oil like a thirsty desert-dweller drinking water! Airgunsmith Rick Willnecker taught me that it impossible to over-oil an CO2 or pneumatic airgun. The excess is blown out on firing.
Results after oiling
After the first oiling, Hobbys averaged 417 f.p.s — a gain of 33 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 406 to a high of 431 f.p.s. That’s 25 f.p.s. between the high and the low, compared to 62 f.p.s. before oiling. Oiling works! But if the first oiling was good, would a second one be even better?
Why do I oil the gun a second time? Because the first time the oil was blown through the valve, where it got on all the seals inside. That was shown when the velocity rose from 406 f.p.s. on the first shot of the second string to 420 f.p.s. on the last shot. The progression was more or less linear. A second oiling will probably raise the average even more, though not by as much as the first time.
Second oiling results
After the second oiling, which was just as generous as the first one, the rifle averaged 442 f.p.s, with Hobbys — a gain of 25 f.p.s. The spread this time went from a low of 430 f.p.s. to a high of 450 f.p.s. — a 20 f.p.s. difference. So we have a higher average and a slightly tighter spread. Should I oil the gun a third time?
I don’t think so. Yes, there might be another small velocity increase, but it will never get up to spec with oil, alone. It needs to be resealed. It’s a waste of time to test it with other pellets while it is in this condition. Sure, I could even shoot it for accuracy right now and I’m sure it would do well, but let’s get the power back to where it should be before we do that.
What’s next?
I looked at the instructions for overhauling the pump and valve on the Pilkington website and it’s so good I cannot see how to improve on it. So I will follow that set of instructions when I rebuild the powerplant.
I called Daisy customer service and ordered the parts, which come as a set. It’s Daisy part 853-1, and of course it also works for 753s. I didn’t even ask what they parts cost, but when they arrive I will tell you.
My remark about serendipity in the beginning of this report refers to the different path today’s test has set us on. I saw this going completely different, but now we get to delve into the powerplant before we test the rifle. Won’t that be fun?
BB
I don’t know if its just the reflection in the first picture of the dry wiper and o ring or if what I saw is some small cracking of the plastic piston head right behind the o ring. If its just the photo then no problem but you may want to examine it more closely to see if the piston is starting to crack or not as rebuilding it with a bad piston would be a waste of time as it would certainly need tore down before long to replace the piston as well.
Just looks cracked to me in the photo.
BD
BD,
It looks that way to me, but my eyes are still not 100 percent focused and it’s too hard to tell for sure. I’ll know when I get it off. I’m sure it is hard and not pliable anymore.
B.B.
BB
You should be able to tell more once its apart since if it is a crack starting you should be able to catch a fingernail in it. It may just be a flashing line as well as its hard to be sure from just a picture but examine very closely so you can replace it if need be when its apart.
BD
BB
I was talking about the plastic piston being cracked not the o ring and where I am referring to is between the o ring and the felt wiper in the picture you have in this report.
BD
BD,
I see that now. I will examine it closely upon disassembly.
I thought I saw chips in the o-ring.
B.B.
BB
Let us know what you find
BD
Bulldawg,
I just want to thank you for the time that you took to explain my XS 46 u trigger to me. I talked to Mike Melick shortly after purchasing the gun from him and he feels like there’s not much you can do to the trigger. I’ve work on Crosman and Chinese triggers but I’m a little leary about diving into this one. I did take a cue tip and put a lot of moly down in the trigger and that seemed to help. If the Chinese put their version of the Record trigger in this gun,I think it would be a serious low-cost alternative to the TX and hw97k. It’s a pretty darn good gun as it stands now.
Brent
Glad I could help and hope it gave you a better understanding of the trigger in your gun and what adjustments can be done to improve it to as good as it can be. It certainly will not ever be a Rekord or TX trigger but with some lube which you have done and some fine adjustments it can be made much better than it is from the factory.
It really is not that complicated to set and should have a window that allows you to see the sear engagement and as long as you keep at least 1/16″ of engagement between the trigger contact surface and the sear contact surface it will be a safe trigger. the thing you are trying to do is set the trigger travel to your liking before you feel it stop against the sear contact pressure and then just allow enough trigger movement when pulled to fully release the sear contact so it does not drag on the trigger and allows the sear to reset ready to be cocked for the next shot.
Just allow the moly to work into the metal and the surfaces to polish against each other and over time it will improve on its own with use.
BD
Buldawg76,
Day off and shooting the M-rod. Full out on striker and full in on hammer. Port is 4 out from bottom. 31.02 HN’s, quick chrony was 860 avg. over 5 shots with a 3100 fill. Did GF1’s POI test and they started falling off by around shot 12 and for sure by shot 18. Did 21 shots from 3100 down to 1300 fill. Still need to repeat the test over a chrony (to match FPS to the gun tank pressure and POI data) that I now have.
So 2 questions,…
1) What would you recommend for additional shot count? Metering screw?
2) While I do not profess to the most steady, most shots were good, with some fliers. The group held 1″ well at 42 yd. sight in range. So,… question,….is there any chance I am pushing the 31.02’s too fast and need to back it down? If yes,….then what would you recommend? Meter screw? Or,… a combo of hammer and stroke? Or,… all 3?
GF1 is busy for a couple of days and thought that you might enjoy helping out a PCP newbie.
About the only other info. is that I am using the shot tray. And,.. sorry to say,.. I have yet to check out the SSG link you sent. Weather is awesome now, but will get worse tomorrow, so maybe then.
Heading out to clear a 100 yd. lane, hopefully. Hedge trimmer for very small trees. I will go as far as I can go without busting out the chainsaw! I am out to 70 now before I hit thicker small growth, so I need an extra 60′. Check back later.
Thanks,…. Chris
Chris USA
Yep busy so got to make this short.
How did you decide 3100psi was high fill psi?
3200 or even 3300 could give you 3-4 more shots. Fill to 3300 and see if your first 5 shots are the same POI as they have been. If they are low on POI then you are probably at the point of partial valve lock and too high of a fill pressure.
Next after you do that and are happy with the fill pressure and POI. Fill your gun back up to that psi you determined. Then take and screw the transfer port screw in a 1/2 turn at a time until you SE POI drop. When it drops fill the gun back up and shoot a full string of shots again. See when POI starts dropping on that setting of the transfer port screw. Bet you will have a better shot count. Velocity will be lower though when you chrony.
So after you do that. Now you can open up the transfer port setting to get a little more velocity and a little less shot count. Or screw it in and get less velocity but more shot count. That will be your fine tune to balance e out shot count and velocity.
Try and let me know.
Chris USA
Oh and forgot to ask. This is a important question.
The groups you just shot and POI was falling off at shot 12-18. How much of distance did those shots drop from your shots that were 1-12?
If only a 1/8″ on shot 12-18 to me that would be consider still good shots. Well for me out at 50 yards is what I base the POI drop at.
So what I’m getting at is if you was shooting a ground hog at 50 yards. You know that set up and fill pressure you determined would produce 18 shots that would hit that ground hog in a acceptable kill zone.
Here’s what happens with pcp and Co2 guns. There is always a point that POI will start to drop off. What you have to determine is when that falling of or lower POI is unacceptable for the type of shooting your doing.
The way my .25 Mrod is set up right now is my first 3 shots are about a 1/8″ high from my aim point at 50 yards. Then about 16 shots POI pretty well dead on to POA. Then about 4 more shots go low on POI from my point of aim.
That’s the nature of the beast so to say with a pcp gun. Especially if its unregulated.
GF1,
Sent you a nice reply and it vaporized. 🙁 I will note and try. Pretty much what I had figured based on what I know thus far. Got the 100 cut. Heading back out now to get some hold over data. I got into Chairgun a fair bit too.
Those 25’s will REALLY mess up a steel can!!!! 😉
Thanks,…. I will try to keep the comments/replies to a minimum. Chris
GF1,
(Final update) for the day,….. the 31.02 HN’s were too erratic for some reason.
Did the 1/2 in on port screw. Decided to go for the “big boys”,… 33.95 JSB’s and do (100 yds.) at a 15 oz. soup can and a 4 oz. mushroom can.
1st. shot high at 2 dot HO. Moved to 1 1/2 dot. 15 oz. can 6/6. 4 oz. mushroom can 1/3. All direct hits!!!! And yea,… the 31.02’s and 33.95’s will punch through (both) sides of a steel can at 100 yds.
I will be playing with these 33.95’s some more!!!! 🙂 Me! And yea,… all the other stuff that I need to nail down yet.
Thanks again,…. Chris
Chris USA
Maybe you needed to shoot more of the Barracuda 31.02’s to season the barrel as we say. They are a little harder pellet than the JSB’s. So you might want to give them another chance.
But it does sound like your having fun with the gun.
And do this experment when you get a chance. Its a short simple one. Out at 40 or 50 yards put a 2×4 about 8″ long and stand it up against something solid like a tree so it’s solid and steady. Take one shot with all 3 different pellets you have at the 2×4 and of course aim at different places on the board.
I want you to take a small diameter Philips head screw driver in the hole from each pellet and tell me approximately how deep each went.
Can you do that today?
GF1,
Well,… Mmmmm?,… You always say,… Forget Chairgun, forget chrony,…. get out and shoot the dang thing to get (real) results. Well, maybe not that exactly,… Chairgun will get you in the ball park and the chrony is a must to verify and tune.
But, shot is what I did. Not to mention 100 yds. The results were pretty dramatic, though I do not have much data to back it up. The 33.95 JSB’s were a “grab” out of frustration of the 31.02 HN’s not doing so well.
As for the 2×4 test. I would imagine that the heavier pellet will go deeper,… at 40-50 though, the lighter pellet might have enough fps to out penetrate the heavier pellet.
Tomorrow’s weather sounds poor at best, with Sunday looking better. Cool, but I can do 55 degrees, no problem.
Hey,…. ain’t you busy? Get back to the family. I got enough info. to keep me busy and just this side of dangerous! 😉
Thanks again,… Chris
Chris USA
Working a half day at work today. Got to get stuff done tonight at home. Tomorrow morning is oldest daughters graduation ceremony from graduating high school. I sure do remember that day when I graduated. But yep after words people and their kids and her freinds are comming over after noon time. BBQ’n and all that other stuff. So it will be crazy tomorrow I’m sure.
And I’m glad you got some shooting time on on the fun and found out some things about your particular gun.
One thing I’m going to ask again. I mentioned this a little while back. But did you remember to check and make sure your barrel band at the muzzle end of the gun by the fill fitting is (not) contacting the shroud. That’s not good at all.
And the reason I say to do the test on the 2×4 is I want you to see how even though the Barracuda is the middle weight pellet that it will penatrate more than likely deeper than the other 2 pellet types.
Plus I want to know how much power your gun is making. I know what my .Mrod will do to a 2×4 at 50 yards with the JSB 33.95’s and the Barracudas.
So if you can do the 2×4 test with your 3 different pellets.
Chris USA
Oh and what magnification was you shooting at when you did the 100 yard shots?
GF1,
7 magnification,… it works good out to even 100 yds. I still want to do 16,… the max. I have now. That will show just how steady you are,… or are not,… real quick! 🙁
As for the barrel band,… it was touching the barrel out of the box. I do not remember you mentioning that, but I did fix it early on.
I will be taking a look at the cocking handle. I am thinking a longer bolt handle.
It is fine as is, but I got big hands. Any chance that you have ever had one out and know what thread it is? I am assuming that it screws in?
I will try to do the 2×4 testing. The 33.95’s really got me going though. I gave the other 2 a good run. 100 yds. is a pretty hard test. I am looking forward to doing some POI of impact testing with them at what ever the Chairgun says is good, per the chrony data.
You,… of anyone,… knows what it is when you find something that works,… or at least seems to work. “Obsession” kicks in.
Fore-warning,…. if they work,… next will be how to MAX. them,…. after that,…. then we move “onto”,.. or should I say “back”,…. to the ARROW testing. Oh yea,… I need some barrel/breech od/id info. 😉
You know,… I was going “there”,… sooner,.. or later! 🙂
Get out of here,…. big day tomorrow,…. rest up.
Thanks again,… Chris
Chris USA
Moved to the bottom.
Writing the comment now.
Like you said, it was thirsty…
When you get the Daisy parts, the orings will probably be different colors, the instructions don’t mention anything about them being different, but a call to Daisy clarified that, the orange one goes on the valve body, the black one goes on the piston.
I have seen some 853’s that have extreme spreads of 5fps over 10 shots.
These things really are amazing!
45Bravo,
Thank you for that information! I’ll be sure to put the o-rings where they belong.
B.B.
I’ll probably be ordering a new piston and lever catch for my 953 along with the set of magazines I have in my cart to bring it back to stock specs after the mods I’ve performed on it. I feel that the lower volume of air has dropped the velocity after filling the piston cup and the lever catch mod actually made it less user friendly but the Pilkington trigger mod is definitely a keeper! I used a Crosman self-locking screw for mine and it’s held steady for over two years now.
First let me thank you for your blog and all the comments. I follow a pattern of a lot your readers. I brought out a Sherian after 30 years and started shooting in my garage some in the summer. I hated the sights and wanted a new gun. Seeing the ads in the paper…wow…airguns have changed…super sonic. $200 later that’s not really what I want. I started to read and then I found you to tell me what I want.
What I really wanted was a place to shoot all year. I set up a place in my basement. I read your blog from 2005 and became a daily reader. I ended up buying a Daisy 953 with the target sight. Now I needed a pistol or as it turns out to be 3: Daisy 717, B17 and a Crosman 1377 with steel breech. I started the Crosman upgrading, but they have what I want except the barrel is not available. I looks like I’ll need four pistols.
Mark,
Welcome to the blog.
I recommend the P17 for you. Unless you have a problem cocking it (20 lbs.) you should love it.
B.B.
Mark
What barrel are you looking for the 1377?
B.B.,
So excited about this report. Like reading a suspense novel! Can’t wait to read about the “rebuild” and results. Gives a novice like me, hope that maybe I could do this! I’ve always wanted one of these.
Doc
Doc,
I have never been inside an 853 before, so I’m a novice, too. I just trust Daisy and all the helps online that we can do this.
B.B.
I got the B17 with a red-dot. I had never seen or tried anything like that. What a cheap way to see what that kind of sighting system is like. I kept the red-dot on and took the rear sight off and padded the area and a little duck tape to make it easier to load. I assume that most of what applies to the Daisy 853 will work with the 953.
Mark,
Yes, the 853 and 953 should be very similar in the sight base area.
B.B.
Gunfun1
The barrel for the 1377 is 14.6 Lothar-Walther that the Crosman custom shop says will be out soon. I’ll just wait for a while.
Mark
Ok thought maybe you was looking for a longer barrel for it. The Discovery barrels will fit the steel breech and are very accurate.
Have you thought about making the 1377 into a rifle?
I had thought about making it into a rifle, but I shoot in my basement. I shoot less than 10 meters and a carbine seems a better fit. The 1377 is cheap enough to start several projects.
Mark
I use to shoot in the basement at my other house with my air guns that were rifles. I liked it.
The main thing is shoot and have fun.
And yep interested to see how that Walther Lothar barrel shoots. If you get that barrel I hope you post info on how it does compared to how it shoots now.
And have always had good luck with the Lothar Walther barrels.
Chris USA
And just think. Remember when you thought 50 yards was going to be far. 50 yards will be a piece of cake now.
And the scope. You mentioned 1-1/2 mildots hold over at 100 yards. It seems to me that scope you have on the .25 Mrod is not a true mildot reticle like the Hawke scope. I bet if you look through your Hawke scope at magnification the dot to dot spacing is farther apart on the scope on your Mrod compared to the Hawke. Let me know. I know my .25 Mrod needs around 4 mildots hold over at 6 magnification with the Hawke scope.
And do the 50 yard shooting at the 2×4 for sure. There’s something I’m going to point out with the holes after you do it.
And tomorrow morning till about noon I’m sure I won’t be able to reply back. After noon time I’ll be able too.
Oh and next try a 2×4 out at 100 yards propped up against something solid. Then we are going to compare it to your 50 yard 2×4. I think you will be surprised at the results.
Tomorrow. 🙂
GF1,
Hey,…. I ain’t done with the first 20 homework assignments you gave me!!! 😉
One thing I did realize awhile back was that a heavier pellet will carry greater FPE further out than a lighter faster, pellet. Closer up may be a different story. Of course,… heavy or light,… they got to hit.
Thus far,…. the 25.39’s and 31.02’s did not “hit” so well.
Will re-read all comments in the AM,… when I am much fresher. Just me,….
For now,…. Out’a here,….. Chris
Chris
I know I was waiting for that about the homework assignments. Can’t help it. We’re on a roll. And you know I been waiting for you to get this .25 Mrod and finally get it shoot’n.
Makes me feel like I just got a new gun.
😉
Chris,USA
Sorry I have not got back to you but GF1 seems to have you on the right track so I will not add anything to his input.
I have not been doing well as had another sleepless night and just very tired and exhausted this week. Just when I think I have the medical bills and paperwork all done and can get back to enjoying a simple life they throw more stuff my way and it just overwhelms me with bureaucratic red tape to keep the money mongers at bay. I am honestly just about ready to hibernate for the rest of my life and hope I wake up 50 years in the past as I am not sure I can continue in the future in this country that cares nothing of its citizens rights or needs as compared to the rest of the world.
I have had all I can take of the corporation known as the USA. INC.
BD
BD76,
Hang in there you Ol’ Buzzard! 😉 I do not know what the answer is to health cost. Heck, even with insurance, anything can put you in the hole real quick. 20$ per aspirin? Don’t get me started.
On the M-rod,…. love that fore pistol grip. The modded pod is nice too. You can hang the butt off the rear of the bench and the gun will balance great on the trigger pistol grip. Bad weather today, but cooler, 55, and better tomorrow. Will be playing with the 33.95’s, which performed stellar yesterday. Get some group data, POI vs tank pressure, chrony, etc.
Chris,USA
I aint givin up its just when I think I am getting ahead of the bills they find a new one to send me. The worst part is I get a letter back in December from our hospital saying that any services provided by them will be waived between 12/15 to 6/16 and the wife has knee surgery in the end of January.
Then in February I get another letter from them that says our wonderful corporate Medicare changed the rules and now wants my life history to be able to honor the first letter. So to me a mans word is not worth the paper he puts it on anymore and we are fighting a loosing battle unless we can unite and take control back from the corporation of USA.INC.
Glad the Mrod is doing good and hope the weather cooperates for you tomorrow.
BD
This worked pretty gooder on my Daisy but my sweetie objected somewhat to the application stage of the subsequent proceedings. There does not seem to be enough of those “#%*€{$” type funnie type letters on the keyboard to adequate translate her commentary on the subject.
Any suggestions?
By the way, “can’t use too much oil,” does not seem to work so well on a 46″ Sony. Makes the NFL cheerleaders look somewhat…fuzzie-like.
But maybe that’s just the way they look real life. :):);)
B.B.,
I have a 1970s Benjamin and a Smith & Wesson 77A multi-pumper that have a felt wipers as dry as a chip and will not hold air. Could you provide me with the names of a couple multi-pump experts to whom I could send them to be resealed?
Thanks very much in advance,
Michael
Michael,
Best man in the business is:
He makes the obsolete parts all the other repair stations use.
I don’t know if he can do much with the Smith, though. The parts are odd in that gun.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wouldn’t you know it, I was looking for a rifle for young shooters and the 853 report happened to pop up. When you mentioned the site where you bought yours, I also found one for a decent price. Did you happen to order your seal kit from Daisy? I can’t wait to see the report on modding the trigger. Thanks for everything you do.
Paperweight,
Yes, I have received the kit from Daisy and will get to the work straight away. I am also looking forward to the trigger mod.
B.B.
Just after a passing glance at a few pages mentioning trigger mods for the 853, I see there are at least two ways of going about it. One involves cutting springs and the other has you installing a screw to adjust the sear engagement. The second one needs a few other parts to be modded to get the safety to work properly. This should be interesting.
B.B.,
Is there a way to send you a parts diagram and a step by step tear down manual pdf? I got an official Daisy how to CD with my rebuild kit. It might come in handy for you.
Paperweight,
Email me at blogger@pyramydair.com and I will contact you.
B.B.
Question,…
On filling a PCP gun from a tank,…. I noticed that with the gun tank at 1300,… I cracked the valve on the tank “ever so little”,…. it stopped at 1750,… cracked it some more,… stopped at 2350,… cracked it some more,….stopped it at 3100 which was the desired fill.
So,.. is that normal? Stop, start, stop, start. I am trying to go real slow,… maybe 2 minutes.
Also, with the tank and gun reading 3100, let’s say,…. after about a half hour the gun pressure will drop to 3000.
Is that normal?
Thanks to any and all,…. Chris
Chris USA
Open the valve real slow. Let the psi come up slowly. You should hear the Foster fill fitting on the gun click. Even if you can’t hear it that’s ok.
And don’t open and close the tank valve. Once you start filling just let the air continue to flow. Just keep the psi on the gauge increasing slowly and progressively to you reach your desired fill psi on the gun. And a 1 minute is ok.
And yes you can see the psi drop 100 psi on the gauge once your done filling to your determined psi. HPA flowing creates heat. So you will see that. I usually fill to 50 psi or so higher than what I determined was my high fill psi.
And your going to find if you shoot outside in different weather temperatures that your fill psi will change from what your inside fill pressure was. Then see what happens if the gun is in the direct sun on a hot summer day or in the shade.
Here is something to remember. Air pressure will change with temperature. Be it HPA or regular low psi compressors.
Bottom line. Don’t knock your brains out over a 100 psi. That’s only about a shot and a half maybe when you relate psi to shots taken.
Remember somebody called pcp’s the darkside for some reason. Pcp’s are a different breed is all I can say. You got to experience them and learn. No easy way about them. Period.
GF1,
Thanks for the confirmation. Just to clear, I am (not) opening and shutting the tank valve. I just crack it open and at some point the gauge will stop moving. So, I open it just a wee bit more. That is what I meant about the stopping and starting. And yes, I do hear the valve on the gun “click” open.
Bottom line, it is working good. I will try to find that “fine line” and see if I can get 1 steady rise. That second gauge on the tank is nice. It makes it a no brainer to see and know how much is left in the tank. The other day, I topped it from 3600 to 4400 in just 16 minutes.
38 degrees now, supposed to be 55 today. Hopefully some sun and little wind. We shall see.
Chris USA
You out getting any shoot’n in today?
Did you do the 2×4 test at 50 and a 100 yards yet?
GF1,
Just got back in. 53, windy. It actually spit some light, hail like, bb’s for about 10 minutes.
Did 2 50yd. groups,… one with tray and the other with the magazine. Also did a 100yd. group. All 33.95’s.
Got some other stuff I need to get done now. I will report back in a couple of hours,… or so.
Chris USA
Ok sounds good.
And do at least one shot at the 2×4 at 50 and 100 yards with the JSB 33.95’s. I want you to see what the diameter of the hole looks at the 2 different distances. And the depth of both holes. I want you to see how far the pellet still penetrates at 100 yards.
Let me know how it goes.
GF1,
Still doin’ stuff, but thought I would give you some data. 50 yd. POI test with 33.95’s.
Shots dropped off at shot 9. Fill 3100, end 2250 at 8 shots. Chrony was 833 at shot 1, 815 at shot 5 and 802 at shot 8.
Also, did 1 group with shot tray and 1 with magazine. Both were 1 5/16″. After carful study, I can not see where there is any issue with the magazines.
(By comparison),… you say that you are getting 950~905 and 20 shots. We are both maxed, but you got some mods.. Plus, your fill was 3500, whereas mine was 3100.
So,….. “me” is wanting that extra 125~100 FPS in max. ~ min. and that extra 12, or so, plus shots! 😉 (Hint-Hint) 🙂
As for the 100 yd. group,…. it was 4 1/4″ wide by 3 3/8″ tall. Evenly scattered with the only “pattern” being 2 at the top that landed about 1/4″ apart. Yawn,… you may say,… but I was pleased. The 7 mag. was pushing it, but worked. I think I will go 10 mag. next time.
The 2×4 test will have to wait. I am more interested in tune options over and above stock tune options. Next time out I will give the 25.39’s and the 31.02’s a try again. Friday off again is looking good, if the weather holds.
That is about it for any kind of an update. Chris
Chris USA
Yep I have tryed a 10, 12, 14 and 16 pound spring for the striker. 12# is what’s in it now. 14# showed only a few more fps and the 16# showed nothing.
But I did find that my breech o-ring might of been going bad or did get messed up when I had the 16# spring in it. I took the 16# out because there wasn’t any difference in fps with it.
Put the 12# back in it and then found the o-ring cut in half at one place. Gun was getting louder and could feel air blowing out the bolt before it broke when I shot. I need to chrony again to see what fps is and also will try the 16# spring again. But probably won’t until I get one of the hi flow valves like Buldawg is getting.
But yep fill pressure and the spring is helping I’m sure with shot count in my gun. I don’t have to max out my striker spring pressure with the heavier spring. I’m guessing it’s helping control the striker bounce is why the shot count POI wise is staying good.
And your getting 830fps with the JSB 33.95’s? If so that’s pretty good velocity with that heavy pellet in a factory stock gun. Probably fill pressure and factory striker spring is hurting shot count in your gun. And to me sounds like you got the transfer port screw out pretty far still to get that kind of velocity. And if so that’s hurting your shot count too.
And on the shot tray and magazine. I still don’t like a 1-5/16″ group. There is something going on. Those pellets should touch at 50 yards with a .25 Mrod. And I know you said the tray and mag produced the same results. Maybe shot tray or mag ain’t the issue. But you should definitely be getting under a inch at 50 yards.
Wish I could shoot your gun to see how its shot cycle is when it shoots and how it sounds also when you shoot. My gun is a crisp snap sound every shot of the shot string. And the barrel of the gun pushes up and back at the same time. Plus if you dry fire the gun so you feel any vibration in the gun? My gun is smooth when it fires. But if I crank the striker spring pressure all the way up with the heavier springs then the gun does vibrate.
So without shooting the gun it’s hard to say what your gun is doing.
GF1,
Well, it sounds as if a hammer spring (OR?) striker spring may be the answer to some of it. The striker stroke (1/8″ Allan) is out 7 turns out from factory. That, to me, would mean less spring pressure/longer stroke. The Hammer spring (1/4″ Allan) is 6 turns in from factory, which to me, means more spring pressure. As I said before, terminology varies depending on what you are reading.
What are the specifics on the spring? Grainger, if I remember correctly.
The port screw is at 3 1/2″ from bottom, which is where it was from factory. Supposedly, 4 to 4 1/2 out from bottom will get you no more.
Sorry on the groups. The pod is real steady. It must just be me at the shoulder. I even got some foam blocks under the pistol grip to further the steady. I will be working on that.
What can you group at 100 yds. with the 33.95’s?
Chris USA
No need to be sorry on the groups. But I don’t think I have ever shot over a 1″ group with mine though ever. And 100 yard best ever is 2″ with a 5 shot group but most of the time 2-3/4″ with a 5 shot group. And my bi-pod is very steady.
And then if that is where your transfer port adjustment is at then you didn’t turn your screw in a 1/2 turn at a time and shoot to find out where your velocity dropped off. You will probably be at about 1 turn out is where velocity and POI will drop. So you are using excess air right now. I don’t have a stock gun. But I’m thinking around 750fps with the JSB 33.95’s is what they should be at. And that may be estimating a little high on fps.
And first on spring adjustment say you turned the adjustments clockwise or counter clockwise. The screws could be left or right hand threads you know. So you might be saying the wrong thing when you say you turned a screw out or in you know what I mean.
And 1/8″ Allen wrench turned counter clockwise will give longest stroke and hardest hit of striker on valve stem.
The 1/4″ Allen wrench turned clockwise will give the spring more pressure which will make the striker hit harder.
And I don’t have the part numbers for the 14 or 16# spring I know. I only ordered one of each of those. I do have 3 or 4 more 12# springs if I remember right. But what I did is measured how long my factory spring was and the inside and outside diameter and counted the coils. Then I found the spring in the catalog and ordered heavier springs by pound and dimensions. Just like finding a different spring for a spring gun.
GF1,
Go to bottom. Will type now.
GF1,
Correction,… end was 2500,…. not 2250 as stated, which was within 50 of the POI test gun tank pressures.
Chris USA
Yep you are not set up right for sure. You should see more than 9 shots before POI falls off with those fill pressure’s.
Chris.USA
To add the GF1s explanation of filling from a buddy bottle when you first open the valve on the bottle and see the pressure rise fast it is just filling the hose to the same pressure as is in the gun. then if you are filling slow enough you should either hear the foster check valve click open or see the gauge needle stop rising. That’s the pressure that was left in the reservoir after your shot string.
Then just barely opening the bottles valve a little more should start the gauge rising again and is now filling the guns reservoir and the slower you can go filling the guns reservoir the less heat and moisture you introduce into the reservoir.
Taking a minute or even two is far better than filling in 10 or 15 seconds since if you fill fast you can actually feel the reservoir become hot from filling fast.
Then as he says the pressure will drop a little after you stop filling as the pressures equalize between the bottles hose and guns reservoir.
Take your time and pay attention and it will become second nature in no time.
Welcome to the darkside and I do not know where or how that term came about.
BD
BD76,
Thanks for the added info.. It is second nature already. The whole process is actually quite easy and fun. I must admit though, the whole thing of PCP’s seemed quite daunting at first, with getting all the stuff and learning to use it all. See reply to GF1 above for a little more comment.
Thanks again,.. Chris
Chris,USA
That click of the foster check valve is what I was saying is the end pressure in the gun after a shot string so since the bottles gauge is more accurate than the one on the gun and you use the bottle gauge to set your fill pressure in the gun as well. You should start checking the guns gauge against the bottles and/or shoebox gauge to see if they are close to the same or if not note the difference between the bottles gauge and the guns gauge so you know where your best fill and end pressure on the gun is using the gun gauge so you know when its time to refill and if you have the correct fill after topping off.
Plus if you get to know both readings of the gun and bottle gauge its an indicator there may be an issue starting such as a leak or gun gauge going bad. PCP is inherently dangerous so its always good to be observant and aware of problems that may arise slowly overtime.
Better safe than sorry.
BD
BD
Sounds like the bill problem is still eat’n at ya. Remember when we was talk’n about getting a puppy the other day. Well the wife and daughters are on me now to get one.
But anyway have you heard anything on that Hi flow valve for your .25 Mrod yet?
And you get any shoot’n in yesterday or today?
GF1
Yes and no on the hospital bill since I sent the requested paperwork in yesterday so its just a waiting game now to see if they are going to stand by their word. You know how I feel about a person/companies word and it being retracted to suit them so I can only hope that it is still good.
I sent him a email on the valve but have not heard back yet so maybe will get an email tomorrow about it but will let you know as soon as I do.
I have not slept good the last few nights despite taking sleeping pills to knock out a horse and have just not felt good at all so no shooting for me. The weather was excellent just a bit windy yesterday but was just not up to doing anything at all. I mainly just tried to get catnaps when I could to get some rest. I did manage to tinker on my 2240.Hipac gun and add another o ring to slow it down some to gain more shots but did not test to see if it worked out good.
Just hope I can get my sleep patterns on track soon since its just running me down more everyday.
BD
BD
Ok yep let me know if you hear anything on the hi-flow valve.
Was pretty nice here today. Did some shoot’n and just kind of kicked back and relaxed. Had a busy last few days.
Did you see that 20% off sale PA is having. Maybe time for a pellet order again for me. If I had some extra money. It’s their 20 year anniversary. That’s probably the biggest amount off that I can remember that they have given before.
GF1
yea will let you know as soon as I hear about the valve.
It was beautiful here today and yesterday unfortunately I was not up to much of anything so just laid around and relaxed as well. I have all the parts to build the blue streak and Benji 720 but just am not up getting them finished either even thought the money is badly needed.
Yea I saw the sale and had just placed a order for pellets on Thursday so as usual my luck is not with me so will have to pass on this sale as I don’t have funds to truly take advantage of the sale to its best extent. I wish I had funds to buy a new gun but just not at this time.
BD
BD
Same here on the money. Alot of other things going on. I guess I need to start working some overtime again.
Would like to get another gun also. Just got to get my butt in gear and make some extra money.
GF1
Never enough money for what’s needed and I believe it would still be the same even if we won a lottery although just to a different extent, but I would not mind finding out first hand.
Likely will never happen since my bible toting state will never pass a lottery but just spend its money in every state around us with one. Hypocrites all of them.
Yea I need to get my butt in gear as well just cannot seem to find the motivation I need to do so recently. If I can get my sleep straightened out I think I could do much better but as it is I feel like a zombie all the time. Its murphy’s law or a catch 22 all the time anymore it seem like for me.
I will get past it though just not sure when.
The PA sale is only on certain items though not store wide.
BD
GF1,
Yep on the screws. I have messed with the port screw. On the 31.02’s I believe. From factory, it was 3 1/2 out from bottom. I have had it out to 4 1/2. I will take it in further and see where the fps drops off at, and maybe improve shot count.
I will check into the springs. That means I have to tear into it to find out what size it is. Not sure if I am ready to do that just yet. I have not watched any full tear down videos yet. Extra springs you say?,… might one just show up in the mail and I can watch some videos in the mean time? Just sayin’,… just sayin’….. 😉
Oh yea, with the hammer tension full in, how far can I push the gun fill? I have done 3250. And, on the tank,.. I did not get a manual with it. How far would you push that? The tank however may be a mute point,…. it already has been at 4500-4600 which is where the Shoebox automatically shuts off.
Chris USA
I do have the extra 12 pound springs. So yes you can have one. The 14# and 16# spring I want to keep for the hi-flow valve to try.
And changing the spring is just like the bolt in a sense. Back breech bolts comes out. Back screw on trigger assembly then the end cap comes out. Then change the spring and put it back together. Probably like you had to do with the RAI adapter. But I could be wrong. I keep forgetting if the butt stock is attached to the stock you have from RAI or if it goes in the main tube like what I had.
And on the stock striker spring I only tryed to 3200 psi. Never whent higher till I did the heavier springs.
And only go to 4600 on the tank. The tank has a safety burst disc incase of over pressurization and the Shoebox does to for that fact. So I would only fill the bottle to 4600 psi.
GF1,
Sounds good. I will try to study up in the mean time. Thank you.
The stock goes into the RAI stock. Very nice set up and recommend it highly.
Oh yeah,… remember that Artisanal Gourmet Hot Sauce you liked? A bottle will be headed your way this week sometime. 🙂
Well worth it,…. and then some.
Chris USA
I’ll mail the spring tomorrow.
And that’s funny you mention the hot sauce. Me and the oldest daughter was just talking about that this morning. She likes the one with the A1 sauce. I liked the one made from the ghost peppers. I been using it to make hot kosher dill pickles. But she goes dad you think you can ask him if he’s going to make more were about to run out.
So would love to have some more.
GF1,
Well hey,…. it ain’t it funny how “things” just seem to work out? 😉 (of course,…. the “modded” A-1)
Out’a here,….. Chris
Chris USA
Thank you. And you know they do. 🙂
Wow, this reminds me to oil the felt wiper on my Daisy 747 which I have forgotten to do for months if not years.
Yesterday, I made my first range trip since my injury, so my return is complete. Shooting firearms is a wonderful thing, and I fired off close to 400 rounds. Ye shall know your airgunner by how fast he shoots and how liberal he is with ammunition. Slinging Lead would be amused to hear that I did forget a few key things. Even though I was planning on long-range accuracy testing, I managed to forget the cheekrest for my Mosin and a special bag I use to regulate the height of my stock on the bench. But notwithstanding, I believe that I would have made a good supply officer in the army. The wonder is that I got the operation to work at all with my various guns and all their ammunition, eye and ear protection, cotton balls, ear plugs, different targets, stapler, spare staples, shooting gloves, spotting scope, parts for the standing spotting scope, Ballistol, water, brass catcher with its various parts… B.B. and other gun writers talk about a range bag is if everything is pre-packed. Every time I go to the range it is like mobilizing for Iwo Jima.
I started with the pistols and they went surprisingly well; I haven’t really lost anything. So, either a break is good for you or my very slow and repetitive training over the years is paying off. As my final act, I tried shooting offhand with a .357 magnum at 50 yards. I grouped within 6 inches–for the rounds that hit the paper anyway. Jill has some catching up to do. This is a milestone for me. The last time I tried shooting a handgun at 50 yards was with my 1911 over a rest. Not only did I fail to hit anything, but it completely wrecked my offhand technique for some time. I found out that the way I was resting the gun on the bag was wrong, but that wasn’t the only problem. I also tried zeroing my rifles, and I put 4 rounds into a half inch with the M1 and 3 into a half inch with the Mosin sniper rifle. This was a good sign for the 100 yard line.
For my shooting there, I had some of my best sight pictures and shot sequences ever. The Jaws of the Subconscious felt very present. Trouble is that the group size did not quite match. For the M1, there were signs of greatness. I put 3 into a half inch. If I were a certain kind of gun writer, I would stop there, but most of my five shot handloads were an unimpressive 3 to 5 inches like an AK. I tend to think this was me more than the gun. But far more important was that the rifle operated without any problem. So, my 10 year quest with the rifle has finally come to an end. For this, I owe a special thanks to blog reader TPC who advised me to get the rifle checked by a gunsmith. I believe Mike and Kevin had advised the same thing some time before. Anyway, without this I would have persisted in my misguided determination to experiment with the gun for much longer. Shooting that M1 is a real joy with that long stroke piston, apart from the accuracy. I certainly noticed the difference in comfort compared to the Mosin.
For that rifle, I got a little over 2 inches for 5 shots. Seeing that I didn’t have my cheek rest and am not familiar with the gun, that is not so bad. I can imagine a professional sniper getting about 1 MOA which is about what those rifles were required to do from the testing procedures that I have seen. This is an irony that I, as one of the most clueless consumers around, ended with a real sniper rifle among all the fakes that are out there. What saved the day for me is relying on knowledgeable people to do the work for me. I found a dealer that is known for the quality of their products although their customer service leaves something to be desired. They said that the gun is not a WW2 sniper rifle which collectors demand. However, it was reconditioned as a sniper rifle after the war before it was locked away. My gunsmith appeared to confirm this by saying that if it is a reproduction, it’s a good one. Firing off 60 rounds with the gun also gave me more of an opportunity to observe its design quirks. In offhand, the bolt cycles as smoothly as a Mauser and is infallibly reliable. It is just as accurate, for the likes of me anyway. The grounds for criticizing the Mosin keep getting smaller.
This is all the more surprising in view of the extremely dirty barrel. Is it possible to have an infinite amount of gunk in the barrel? My gunsmith said that he couldn’t keep charging me for cleaning it although he did end up charging me over $400. I’ve given it many treatments with Sweet’s 7.62 copper fouling solution. Following Mike’s advice, I gave it a good cleaning with a bronze brush and Ballistol before this latest session. Then, afterwards, I squirted a squeeze bottle of water through the barrel and then flooded the bore with Ballistol. Later, I poured a whole thermos of boiling water down the barrel followed by a patch soaked in Windex followed by a full treatment with Sweet’s 7.62 and Hoppe’s Number 9. I would think that the bore must have been blasted down to the bare metal, but the patches were still coming out with black markings. I guess what has been baked in there since 1931 will be there forever.
It’s kind of odd to hear that it is not possible to rebarrel a Mosin. The advice has been that it is not worth doing because the rifles are so cheap that it is easier to get another. But apparently the barrel is attached in such a way that removing it can crack the receiver. Kind of odd. But at least my historical piece shoots decently.
Matt61
Matt61– I have 4 Mosin,s. The oldest has an 1898 date on the barrel. One is a Finn m 39 ( the Finns rebarreled many thousands of Mosins). I clean them with wipe out. I just spray the wipe out ( like shaving cream) and wipe it out a few hours later. Repeat as and if needed. Look up the wipe out web site and see how easy it is to clean rifles. Look up Merrill Martins articles on how he cleans military rifles (including national match M1,s and and bolt action match rifles.). The relatively rough military barrels require diff rent cleaning methods compared to bench rest and custom barrels. Ed
Hi BB, is the 853 and 753s basically the same gun except the 753s has the synthetic stock? I was impressed by your review of the 853 and it’s accuracy. The 753s was on sale and bought it last week. Unfortunately, the self tapping retaining screw just behind the trigger which secures the plastic receiver fell out after only 8 shots! It appears the hole was stripped or the screw was too short. in any case, I see this as a design flaw. Is this screw of the same specs in the 853, which has a wood stock?
Regards,
Peter
, Peter,
The 753 and 853 actions are identical. But the triggerguard screw doesn’t attach to the stock on the 853. It goes into an insert. And I bet that is true of the 753 also.
Please contact the techs at Pyramyd AIR about this.
B.B.
Thanks BB…..it’s not the trigger guard screw. when it came off, the entire action lifted off and pivoted on the front two stock screws! I will contact the techs….
-Peter