Quackenbush Number 7 BB gun: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Quackenbush Number 7
Quackenbush Number 7 BB gun.

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • What is it?
  • Quackenbush airguns
  • No such luck!
  • Smart Shot
  • Some facts about the Number 7
  • Adjustable trigger!
  • Push-barrel
  • Sights
  • Summary

What is it?

What in the world is a Quackenbush Number 7 airgun? Well, for starters we aren’t talking about anything made by Dennis Quackenbush. No, we are looking at an airgun made by a distant cousin of his, Henry Marcus Quackenbush, of Herkimer, New York. He worked for the Remington Arms Company as his first job out of school, and, in 1871, started his own company under his name.

H. M. Quackenbush was a bright and gifted man who is credited with the invention of the nutcracker in 1878. The company he founded still exists under the name HMQ Metal Finishing Group and I believe are still in business today in Syracuse, NY. Look in your kitchen for those initials on your nutcracker.

nutcracker
Almost every household in America has one of these nutcrackers.

closeup of initials
And Henry Marcus Quackenbush made it.

Quackenbush airguns

We are interested in their airguns, though. When Dennis Quackenbush came out with his Brigand in 1996, the old-time collectors moaned, “There goes the neighborhood! In 20 years no one will know there ever was another Quackenbush.” Well, it’s 20 years later and they were partly right. The average airgunner thinks of Dennis when he hears the name Quackenbush, but the collector is very aware of Henry Marcus.

H.M. Quackenbush made airguns and rimfire rifles. His “bicycle rifles” — so-named because they were small enough to carry while riding — are favorites of the rimfire collector crowd. Today, though, we are looking at his Number 7 air “rifle”. It’s really a smoothbore BB gun. I bought it, hoping it was really a vintage BB gun that was bored 0.175, because it is an early 20th century airgun and BBs were that size at that time. And for once I lucked out, because that’s what it is!

Great luck!

However, when I received the gun, I tried loading BBs and they fell through the barrel! Was I duped? No.

Today I was reading John Groenewold’s excellent book, Quackenbush Guns, and found the end label from a Number 7 box pictured in the book. It contained all the loading instructions! I had thought the projectile was supposed to be loaded from the muzzle, and the bore of the gun is too large to work with a 0.175-inch BB. It falls all the way through. But when the same BB is loaded PROPERLY into the breech, it fires with great force — as defined by complete penetration of 2 sheets of stout cardboard box. I’m not looking for an elephant rifle, here. I just want to shoot the thing, and, thanks to this book, I can!

I used 4.4 mm lead balls I have for other air rifles. At 0.174-inches, nominally, they are just slightly too small, but they do work.

Some facts about the Number 7

The Number 7 is one of three similar airguns made by Quackenbush. Number 6 was the first, and it was designed by Henry’s son, Paul, to be a less-costly-to-make (but not cheap) competitor for the BB guns of the day. The earlier Quackenbush models are made from solid material that is mostly brass. They are heavily nickel-plated. In fact, nickel-plating is one of Quackenbush’s hallmarks. No Number 7 gun was ever plated, though. They are either blued or browned, and mine is nicely browned with rust — the patina of age.

These are tin-plate guns — the title some collectors give to the technology of folded-metal construction. They had to be, to compete on cost with the other BB guns of the era. But the Number 7 is made from metal that’s much thicker than most BB guns.

Overall length of the test gun is a whisker over 38 inches. Taken down the longest part is the action that measures 26 inches. The pull is 13 inches. The gun weighs 2 lbs. 9.25 oz, which is in the ballpark with other single-shot BB guns.

The stock is a shaped slab of what appears to be gum — an inexpensive hardwood that can be stained to look like walnut. The shape is simple, as is the inletting. All of this is what is expected in a gun that competes on price. It retailed for $5.50 in 1918 — a time when $5 bought a Daisy Number 40 repeater that came with both a sling and a bayonet. A better price for a single-shot airgun like this would have been around $2.95 at the time, but Quackenbush was not willing to compromise on quality. Though it doesn’t look it, the Number 7 is a very well-made BB gun!

Looking at the muzzle would lead you to believe this gun is incomplete. It looks like the shot tube is missing. That’s just an illusion caused by the design of the gun. In fact, it’s all there.

muzzle
The muzzle looks unfinished — like something is missing. The shot tube is deep inside the barrel jacket.

The Number 7 was made from 1912 until 1936, with a total of 15,011 guns sold. That does sound rare, as a lot of those guns have been thrown away by this time. But the Number 6 (1907-1923) gun that proceeded it is much rarer, with just 2,365 sold. The Number 7 is an upgrade of the Number 6 breech, making it easier to load.

The gun is a take-down model, which is in-keeping with many Quackenbush airguns. A single thumbscrew on the forearm comes off to separate the action from the buttstock.

gun taken apart
One nut comes off and the gun comes apart like this.

Adjustable trigger!

When I removed the stock, you can imagine my utter shock to discover this inexpensive folded metal airgun has an adjustable trigger! Of course it is a direct-sear type that no lawyer worth his or her salt would approve today, but this was an earlier time with simpler people who thought about things before they did them and accepted the consequences if they messed up!

trigger adjustment
Look at what they did! The arrow points to a portion of the spring that’s punched out to form the sear. The screw to the left of it controls the amount of contact area. Not only is this the sear spring, they also made it the trigger return spring! This is how good engineering shaves cost while still creating a winning design.

The breech opens for the loading of darts, which I may also try, now that I know the gun works. I’m just glad I can shoot it at all. I have had it on hand for several months, thinking I got skunked on the deal. It turns out I probably blundered into a great deal on this one.

breech
The breech is closed, but you can see the rear of the actual barrel through the cutout. The tab underneath is what catches on the frame when the outer barrel jacket is pulled back during cocking.

breech open
Gun is cocked and you can see the chamfered BB seat.

BB loaded
The 4.4mm lead balls fall deeper into the breech than a 0.175-inch BB would.

Push-barrel

Most Quackenbush airguns cock by pushing the barrel straight back. That was common for the era, but not as common today. I think the Crosman M1 Carbine (derivative of the V350 BB gun) may be the last American-made example to use that type of operation. The British Gat pistols and rifles also cock that way. The push required is pretty stout, making this a gun for adults and older youths (or yoots, as Cousin Vinny likes to say). I will measure the effort in Part 2, when we look at velocity.

Sights

Yes, there are sights. They are just better than vestigial. The rear sight is a simple notch that may slide crossways in a dovetail. The front sight is a triangular blade that is actually the forward part of the shot tube. There’s not going to be any adjusting these sights. Wherever the gun hits, I will have to learn to hold off-target by that amount. And you can forget about optical sights. They are about a pertinent on this gun as they would be on a flintlock!

Summary

We are looking at a very old BB gun in the Quackenbush Number 7. It’s impossible to say when this one was made because there is no serial number, nor were there major design changes throughout the model’s life. I think it is a rare testimony to the longevity of a simple design like this that it has lasted for perhaps a full century and is still working well.

145 thoughts on “Quackenbush Number 7 BB gun: Part 1

  1. BB–Have you seen the Huber trigger for Mosin Nagant rifles? I think that it is similar to the trigger on your Quackenbush. Ditto for the Viggo-Miller trigers that were popular 50 or so years ago. My Haenel #1 and my unnamed Itallian air rifle also have similar triggers. Ed


  2. Hi BB et al..
    Well, as per the email with the photos on Monday sent to BB here is the write up on my
    project. To summarize I had mentioned a while ago that I was in the process of cleaning
    out my airgun spare parts/junk closet. After getting everything spread out over a couple
    of card tables and ironing boards I thought I could see a project in that pile of bits
    ‘n pieces. Well it seems there was and here’s what I cobbled together.
    Parts I found:
    1 – Crosman 262 stock in fine shape.
    1 – Crosman 262 Gas Tube – no valve, no breech, cocking pull/hammer working and intact
    1 – Crosman .22 cal. Steel Breach.
    1 – 2240 valve assembly.
    1 – 24″ Crosman Barrel .22 cal. and barrel band.
    1 – Crosman 262 barrel shroud (fits 24″ barrel perfectly).
    1 – Trigger group at least 20 years old. Purchased new and never used. Still sold by PA.
    Identical to the Sheridan/Crossman 2260, Disco or Maximus trigger group I believe.
    1 – Box assorted 2240 seals, screws, grub screws, gas tube extender cap and etc.
    1 – Scope – BSA Contender 3-12 X 40AO w/HMR .17 turrets and 30-30 reticle.
    1 – UTG Dovetail to Weaver adapter.
    1 – Boss 2240 valve that I decided not to use as it is rated for only 17 shots.
    Assembly was straight forward and only took a few hours with the end result being a
    rather funky looking looking rifle because of the short backspaced forestock of the 262.
    Google Crosman 262 to see what I mean.
    Total length of the rifle is 46 1/2 inches which includes 6 1/2 inches of the shroud
    which extends past the muzzle. I was lucky as the grub screws holding the shroud on
    matched the divots in the barrel perfectly.
    Well,thats all for today, my wrists can’t take anymore typing tonight so will finish
    with another blog entry tomorrow.
    Cheers
    Dave


  3. Yes I remember those nut crackers as a kid. We may even still have one somewhere I think.

    And this #7 is a cool gun. Can’t wait for the velocity and accuracy tests. And just love how light these bb guns are. I was surprised when I read how light the model 74 Daisy is I just got. The 1077’s are light also. But the 74 is even lighter. My .25 Mrod is going to feel like it weighs a ton when I pick it up to shoot after the 74. 🙂



      • Doc
        FedEx dropped it off yesterday while I was at work. I haven’t even got a chance to take it out of the box Pyramyd Air shipped it in yet. Been busy with all kinds of stuff.

        I plan on opening it up tonight when I get home from work. And you know what I don’t think I have ever chronyed a bb gun now that I think about it. It will be a history making event for me when I do. 🙂

        I will let you know. I have some steel bb’s and some smart shot. So we will see. I don’t think my chrony has ever seen any velocities that low yet. When I shoot at cans I usually go by how hard it knocks the can you know what I mean. And that lower velocity like 400 fps and slower is just right for transfering all the energy to the can instead of piercing through real quick.

        If the 74 shoots as good as the Python pellet pistol and the m22 bb pistol I will be a happy camper. And it’s going to be strictly a open sight gun. They say there’s a dove tail for a scope. But some people say it can be scoped and some say it don’t accept a scope right. Any way we’ll see. And thanks for asking.


        • GunFun, I know what you mean about lower velocity and transferring energy. Years ago I discovered the joys of shooting my first .22 CB rounds through a Winchester pump 22. We were so amazed at the energy that was transferred to the bottles and cans. No it was not smashing energy, but on certain targets 22lr would just zip right through while the 22 cb’s would “knock over” the target. Can’t wait to hear about your results!
          I too love bb shooters. I don’t know why. Not as powerful, accurate and so on, but there is something about that bb. Maybe youth?

          Doc


          • Doc
            We shot the shorts in my semi-auto Winchester 190. Had to cycle the bolt for each shot but had a blast shooting the old tin cans. Not aluminum but tin. Man would they go fly’n.

            And I mostly had pump air guns when I was a kid and shot pellets. Never really did bb’s. But we learned real quick if we was can plinking to only put like 3 pumps in the gun. Them pellets would really hit them tin cans hard. It was actually more fun to hit the cans with the pump air guns then those .22 rimfire shorts.

            But I still do buy a brick of the CCI 710 fps 40 grain long rifle rimfire rounds when I find them. Love popping cans with them in my Savage bolt action rifle.

            Yep I know it sounds like I like power when I talk about my .25 caliber Marauder. But I like slow velocity hard hitters to. Especially the guns you can rapid fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. 🙂


        • Hi GunFun1,

          When you do your test report on the 74, please also give your opinion of the trigger. Hard pull? Long pull? How does it compare to the Python?

          Mike


  4. BB,

    That is an awesome little BB gun and I am so glad it is in good working order! It reminds me of the Iver Johnson Mark X .22 rifle. Absolute simplicity in a well made package. The trigger assembly is even very similar.

    Yes, the legal firms would be having a heyday with these, but are they not the very people who are promoting evolution? Should we not allow the removal of stupidity from the gene pool?


    • Hi RR;
      Let me bring some thoughts in response to your post. If you removed stupidity from the gene pool:
      1. Lawyers would lose 90% of their clients. Then lawyers would have to get a job as a greeter at Walmart.
      2. Think of all the people who would be out of business who make the ubiquitous warning labels on every item today.
      3. If we lost all the stupid people, there would be no more politicians.
      4. The Nigerian scammers would be without jobs as they had no more people to fleece.

      Enjoy the weekend. Big airgun show next weekend and I am looking forward to my visit.

      Bob in Pearland, TX


      • B-I-L,

        You are not going to make me feel guilty about allowing “evolution” to take it’s course. The elimination of the stupid people will create more job openings for the label makers and the lawyers deserve what they get. The elimination of the politicians cannot be viewed any other way than a positive.

        As for the Nigerian scammers, we can use them to help sniff out the future stupid people that will likely be born.

        Enjoy the show. I wish I could make it. Say hello to BB for me.


        • Hey mister NRRR.

          How do you rate the Daisy model 74?

          And a quick note. No glowy thingy sights. And it don’t even shoot light weight pellets.

          That’s a few bonus points right there I would say.

          Well what do you rate it as.


          • GF1,

            Do you really want me to rate the 74? To the best of my recollection I have never seen one, much less played with one. How can I possibly give a fair rating?

            Not having glowy thingy sights is indeed a positive. Not shooting pellets, hmmm. Well, at least it has made up it’s mind as to whether it was going to be a BB gun or a pellet gun, so I guess we will put that on the plus side.

            Now as for the CO2, I personally do not care for that. Most of my shooting is not in the summertime so it will not be at it’s top performance. Also, the cost of the CO2 cartridges would add up over time.

            The truth is it is just not my cup of tea. I really do not have an available slot in my “collection” for another BB gun with the possible exception of a nice functioning Quackenbush. My 1959 Daisy model 99 fills that slot real nicely.

            In all fairness I will have to defer to you on what rating the Daisy model 74 should receive.


            • RR
              I’m really wondering how much the cold will affect the 74. It gets alot of shots per cartridge and it doesn’t seem to slow up if I rapid fire it.

              We’ll have to see how it does this winter. Maybe the 74 might just be the co2 gun that’s going to work ok in the cold. I have shot my 2240’s with the Discovery breech and barrel on co2 forever before BB reported on the HPA hi-pak conversion. Shot them in 30° weather. Shot count and velocity was a little lower but only very minimal.

              I think with the way the 74 gets so many shots per cartridge from such a little amount of co2 it uses per shot. I believe it just might not show as much of a velocity drop or shot count loss. Anyway we’ll see soon enough. Fall is just around the corner.


  5. I have a nut cracker that is branded HMQ. It is a T- handled, screw type with a half, bulb shaped cup. Worth about $30.00 per on line antique listings. I have seen plenty of the type that B.B. showed as well over the years. (Thanks for the insight). 🙂 That made my day!

    Nice old bb gun as well. Interesting design and functionality.



  6. Like Redrafter, I started pulling out parts left over from other projects.
    Decided to build up another 2240 . Have most of the parts. Then decided I should make it a 2040 or a 2540, so now I have to find either a .20 (5mm) or .25 caliper barrel that will fit the 2240 steel breech.
    Anybody know where I can find them? Maybe the Texas Airgun Show at the end of the month? Dennis Quackenbush will be there, may he still has some of those barrels.


  7. B. B.

    Thanks for a very interesting article with the tie-in to the nut-cracker. It reminds me of the BBC “Connections” series by James Burke with reference to style. One of my favorite shows.

    Chris, thanks for the comment. It feels good to be noticed by someone who’s a regular. I appreciate the welcoming tone.

    Thanks!

    Walt


    • Walt,

      I do not know much about scopes,… good ones anyways. B.B. said you can count on UTG to deliver a consistent product at a good value. I have found that to be true. And, he said the best brands can vary. Talk about a buying confidence builder! 🙁

      When buying, I tried to do my homework and buy the best gun I could afford. After all was added up,.. UTG scopes fit the bill. I would like the opportunity to look through a 1000 or 2000 dollar scope sometime, just to see. Not that it would help me shoot a lick better! 😉


      • Chris,

        B.B. is right about UTG scopes. They will do the job for a fairly painless price. I like the two that I have used. Don’t think that most airgunners need high end scopes. Serious target and field target shooters can probably justify spending more than we would. But put in perspective, many modestly priced scopes offer performance and features found only in high end scopes a couple of decades ago. Advances in robotic machining have made accurately figured optics available to the budget conscious. And UTG scopes seem to be physically robust, something unusual in the lower cost products. I put the 4-16 X 56 on my .25 Gladius. It’s a handful, but boy, will it score. I get a workout, but it’s very stable and weight distribution is great. It destroys whatever I point it at.
        I have a 4-12 x 40 Bushnell XLT mounted on my .22 Synrod. Very nice optics for the price. Better coatings and glass than the UTG, but it’s less strong mechanically. B. B. also recommends an Airforce 50mm scope for it’s good optics, and I’ve no doubt that he’s right about that also.
        Most of my optical experience is not with rifle scopes, but with astro scopes, spotters, binocs, and camera lenses. But glass is glass. Been using optics critically off and on since the late 60’s. Back then only the priciest scopes could approach the quality of views available in today’s everyday units such as my Bushnell.
        Have a great weekend!

        Walt


        • Walt,

          I too wish to express my gratitude for your sharing your insights into optics. I have learned some and also have had many of my experiences with such reassured. Modern optics have indeed come a long way over the years.

          The one regret I have with the UTG scopes I have is not so much the optics, but the reticles. Their reticles are so thick that you have to use a high power to see your target around them. I recall the very fine crosshairs that were on my father’s Weaver 12x scope he had mounted on his varmint rifle. It is difficult to find them that thin today, but it still obscured about six inches at 500 yards. The UTG reticles are like telephone poles in comparison.

          With the slightly higher end scopes of today, upper end UTG and Hawke included, you can get the etched glass reticles, many of which are quite fine though I have an issue with some as they have made the reticles very fancy, making the sight picture very busy. To each his own I guess. Perhaps if someone was to loan me such a scope for a few months I may change my mind. Any offers out there?


      • Chris,

        Walt most certainly knows optics. As he pointed out, for the money, UTG scopes are the scopes to buy. I strongly suspect that should you decide to spend less, you would regret doing such. I have yet to come across a lower priced brand of scopes that I would be happy with.

        Over the years I have had the opportunity to look through quite a few rifle scopes, some of which were of the very high end variety. Yes, you can find scopes with much better optics than UTG provides, but you are going to pay more for such and when does that price tag become bragging?

        Another brand you may consider is Hawke. Very recently I purchased a Webley / Hatsan Tomahawk and a Hawke 3-9×32 AO IR Mil-Dot scope with mounts. The whole package with shipping was $166. The scope itself was worth the deal. I am very impressed with the quality of the optics, so much so that I am having a hard time deciding what to mount it on. For now I have mounted a UTG Compact 4-12×44 SWAT on the Webley. Hopefully I will have the opportunity to zero it in and shoot it some this weekend.

        I have always been quite impressed with the Hawke line. They have excellent optics in a well made package. You can spend more, but then you are faced with the law of diminishing returns.

        By the way, I would stay away from the compact scopes unless you just have to have a smaller package as the image quality is reduced by the thicker lenses and the shorter focal lengths. Golly Gee Whiz I hope I said that right. If I did not, I hope Walt corrects me.


        • RR,

          I have that UTG 4-12 on the TX. That was my first scope and is nice as you say. The LGU has a Hawke 2-10, Varmint I believe. It is nice too. And, like I said, the 4-16×56 on the M-rod. Hawke was my (first) choice for the M-rod. But, just getting into PCP’s, Shoebox, Tank, etc.,… I opted for the UTG. No regrets. I do like the lighted reticles. I use the green 99% of the time.

          Like you said, at some point you are paying for a name. As for $ bragging,.. I never was into that. I just expect to get what I pay for,.. or at least hope to anyways. I do not find it offensive if someone mentions how much something cost. In fact,.. the opposite. Like you mentioning that Hawke. You recommend it and gave me the price of it. That, to me, says that if I want a lower powered, light weight scope perhaps for wood’s hunting,… it is something that I should consider.

          I just looked through all 131 articles in the “Optics” section of the archive with specific interest in scopes. Parallax in particular. Lots of good info.. Good reminders as well. With the exception of the most serious bench rest shooters or big game hunters shooting across valleys and mountains and 400-700 yards, I don’t see the need to get carried away on spending a ton on optics.



            • GF1,

              I did 70 yds. yesterday for a bit. 6 groups with the 25.39’s and 3 with the 33.95’s. All groups were pretty much the same, sub 2″. All groups had the pellets “hopping” around the bull from shot to shot. No real sub groups. I was very focused on hold and hold pressures to eliminate that variation.

              I did run the chrony today with the 25.39’s. I still had some jump (ups) in the string of 9,4,2 and 8. Also, for current settings, 3400 looks like the fill. I had it at 3500 and the 1st and 2nd shots were 854 and 870. 2 and 4, no issue. 9 and 8 jumps I would prefer not to see.

              I have tried everything I know to do. If I can do 24 shots and the groups do not tighten up on a repeated basis, then I do (not) think that FPS (in)stability is an issue.

              No rain till later, but I am going to take the day off from shooting and hit it again tomorrow.

              I may try the striker full back,… but I do not really see what that would do for accuracy.


              • Chris USA
                You never know the striker full back may be what your valve gun likes.

                And I see you switched up pellets again on the same day. When I switched to the JSB 33.95’s it took 2 days of shooting before they started tightening up the groups. Why do you keep switching pellets and only shooting those little number of shots? I might shoot the same pellets 3 or more days before I got a good evaluation of that particular pellet.

                And since you mentioned you went through and read some reports on parallax what did you find out? And did you leave your parallax set this time when you shot?

                Man listen to me today. I’m just full of questions. 😉


                • GF1,

                  I did learn that there is a lot of parallax at 25-50 yds. and not so much at 100-150 yards. Head position is critical, per B.B.. I know you differ on that. I did test the parallax set at 100, (which looked good) when moving my head around,…. and then tried it at 70. I was shooting 70 both times. The results were the same. 3 eight shot groups each. ( If anything at all, the 100 setting produced groups that were maybe 1″ higher. Left to right did not change, nor did the group size change ).

                  When set at 100,.. I could see my 50-100 yard markers good. When set at 70,.. the 40-90 looked good.

                  As for switching,….. I figure if I am doing JSB’s,…. the lead will the same. I have 0% worries there. If I were switching to an HN or some other pellet, I would be more worried about sticking with a pellet longer.

                  I will take the striker full back and see. I think for THIS M-rod,… this is about the best it is going to ever do. I am still getting better than the average M-rod shooter though.

                  You remember “Slinging Lead”? Thinking about changing my handle to “Wasting Lead”.

                  😉 or ;( ?,…… Chris 🙂



                  • Chris USA
                    What magnification did you use. Your normal 10 or 12 magnification? And you don’t have to shoot to do this. Take your gun out and set your parallax at 50 yards with 10 magnification. Then look at a target or object at 15 yards. It probably won’t be very sharp. Then turn your magnification down while your still looking at that 15 yard target till you see it come into focus. Now look at a target at 50 yards. It should still be clear and focused also. Then tell me what magnification you end up on your scope. After you tell me that I’ll tell you something else to try. You will like the results at the end I believe.

                    And just because your shooting the same brand of pellets in your gun that the “barrel seasoning” doesn’t still need to be done. That’s a mistake to assume.

                    And striker full back. Ok.

                    And yes if you change your user name pick a shorter one this time ok. Something that abreviates easy.

                    Yea Waisting Lead would be ok. How about it WL. 🙂


                    • GF1,

                      Will try first thing in the AM. Notes made. If I can not have to adjust something, that is one less variable. Not sure I like it though. I can see the blue lines on graph paper at 50 yards, or fresh holes in steel cans. When I got those nice and clear,…. I figure the parallax is good as it can possibly be. Writing on the target with a marker works good too for knowing when the parallax is prefect.

                      As for mag levels,… .25 M-rod for example,… 7 @ 30-60, 9 @ 70 and 80, 10 @ 90 and 100. So yea,…. I am keeping it at the lower end of things. The UTG on the M-rod will do 16. That is the highest mag. level scope that I have.

                      Odd on the same brand testing. That makes 0% sense! If you say so,… then ok. Based on all the shooting you have done over the years no doubt. Still,… if you want to throw out a theory on that,… I am sure that me and a few others would be willing to hear it.

                      As for the handle,… how does just Chris,… or C sound? USA? I do not care. What ever is the easiest for you and your,.. a,.. err,.. “Smart” phone. 😉

                      (Hit me up at the bottom so as we don’t get into all that running out of room stuff.)



  8. Ok I know it’s late but had to post about the 74.

    First nice box. Gun is zip tied to box. So gun would be safe from abuse when being shipped. I like that. Good owners manual too.

    Now the gun. It is plastic and metal. Reminds me alot of the Crosman 1077 in the way that the stock and barrel are constructed. It is a light weight gun like the 1077 too. But it’s a very solid constructed gun where it needs to be. Again like the 1077. What I noticed right off the bat is the receiver shape and the fore hand stock grip really resembles my old Winchester 190. Kind of like the 1077 is modeled after the Ruger 1022. Well my 190 doesn’t have checkering and is wood and metal. And of course the 190 is a tube mag that holds about 15 long rifle bullets. So the 74 holds 15 in its spring loaded magazine. The tube fed 190 is a spring loaded magazine also. So could be a good trainer for a kid before they got a semi-auto rimfire gun.

    I had to shoot the gun tonight. I could just tell it was going to be cool even if it wasn’t accurate. But low and behold it was accurate. It’s better than the Python but not quite as accurate as the 1077. Oh and the 1077 shoots one holers out to 18 or so yards. I was ringing my 1-1/2″ spinner every shot bench resting the 74 at 20 yards and open sights even. It does not shoot like what I remember my buddies bb guns shot like as kids And I’m dead serious. I even loaded only 15 steel bb’s in the resivoir shot them then tryed the smart shot with only 15 of them loaded. I didn’t want to dump a bunch in the resivoir and fudge my results with mixed bb’s and smart shot lead bb’s.

    So I should mention the sights. Here I’m totally surprised again. I did not have to touch the adjustment on the open sights from how they were set out of the box but they are fully adjustable for windage and elevation. The steel bb’s required a 6:00 hold to hit the bullseye at 15 yards. The smart shot hit just a hair under the bullseye when aimed dead on. So thats about right for the heavier smart shot I believe.

    Oh and it is a very quiet gun. Quieter than the 1077 and way quieter than the m22 and Python.

    And the light weight of the gun makes it so easy to hold on target shooting standing free hand it’s ridiculous. And now the trigger and rapid fire. Ok I got the biggest $h!+ eating grin on my face right now it ain’t funny. The trigger is a single action. And can’t really feel when it breaks. But it’s very predictable. You pull the trigger for a medium distance and the shot goes off. No creep. No extra pressure as more trigger is applied. The shot just goes off when the trigger almost stops movement. It’s definitely a better trigger than the 1077. It’s as light as the Python if I shoot the Python single action. It’s lighter than the Python when I shoot it double action. And definitely lighter than the m22.

    And shot count. Ain’t went there yet but getting ready to finish this 12 gram cartridge. And if I shoot a slow rapid fire of one shot per second I haven’t seen no poi drop at 15 yards. It’s still to early to tell how the co2 performance shot count and such will be. It usually takes me about 3 cartridge’s or so to get a idea of what my accurate shots are before the poi drop happens.

    Way satisfied with the gun so far. Price and all. And if I was to of got this semi-auto bb gun as a kid I would of very well loved it I’m sure. A good way to get a kid into rapid fire shooting. I know my daughter’s when they were young use to fight over who was going to get to shoot the 1077. Now I’m sure I will be taking turns with them with the 74. I’m seeing one or two more of these in the future. And some feral can competition a brewing.

    Ok got to go. Going to finish this cartridge and call it a night. More to come tomorrow. 🙂


    • Oh and Doc. Sorry no chrony readings yet.

      But will say this. It does knock the feral cans for a good one. I think when they made this 74 they made it with feral can kill’n in mind.

      I like it. 🙂


      • Look at the time of my last post about the 74.

        3:24 am

        Look now at the time. I’m still on the guns first cartridge. And I just refilled the resivoir. And it’s still shooting same poi at 15 yards. This gun is amazing. Whatever Daisy did with this guns valving other companies should get one and tear it apart to see what makes it tick. I’m just absalutly surprised.



          • Siraniko
            With you there. But what’s crazy is this gun is accurate. I have never been much of a bb shooter. Pretty much always bullets from firearms or pellets and air guns growing up on the farm.

            This cheap little bb gun is a performer. I’m seriously ordering another one.

            And already planning a video with the 74. Going to have my oldest daughter use my phone and get a can dance video with the 74. No iscope this time around. Just focusing on a can with the phone and me pulling off 15 shots rapid fire and keeping the can moving till the last shot is fired. I think nobody has posted any air gun video’s like that yet. If someone finds any video’s like that I hope they post the link here this weekend.

            Crazy how cheap guns can be fun too ain’t it. 🙂


    • GF1

      Glad to here it!!! I have always liked that little gun in either my catalog or drooling online. I was always afraid of the gamble… I’m glad you have another shooter on your hands. You starting to get two distinct factions of AGs around there, huh? That’s pretty cool. I’ve got another to put on my list it looks like.

      GF1 and anyone else interested

      I had the slavia out last night and wow. That thing is so much fun! Rested at 10yds I started trying a few pellets. I started with the crosman points, no good. Then I tried the jsb 7.87 and aa 8.44. They both did OK but it was getting dark. The 8.44 cloverleaved 3 shots when i went down to check so i kept going. I need to go get my falcons and test them. The rws r-10 are pretty sweet. They gave me about an inch in the crazy wind and failing light. For comparison my Hw30 had a funky group. .25″ctc horizontal and .800″ vertical. Definitely will be using more of those at 10meter ranges. Hopefully the rain quits and I can get out today.

      The weirdest thing, I picked up my Hw30 and it felt so heavy. And heavy to cock. The trigger was stiff and the cycle was super buzzy. I was like what happened? Lol that little slavia is just a peach. Super calm sharp thunk when it fires and no buzz. Light predictable trigger. Its not really that great but I can control it well.


      • PH
        The 74 is such a fuel miser it’s crazy. Shot after shot after shot. It just keeps going. I seriously got over 200 shots last night on one 12 gram co2 cartridge out to 20 yards before the shots started going low on poi. I didn’t want to say last night till I confirmed it again today. Just got through shooting and definitely emptied a full 200 round resivoir and filled it again then about 20 more shots and it started dropping out at 20 yards. If I moved in to 15 I was able to get about 50 more shots before it was done. So I would say easy 200 shots out of a 12 gram cartridge. Like I said crazy efficient gun.

        And yep sounds like someone has been inside that Slavia. Sounds alot like how my tuned Tx sounds. Like I said before if someone was shooting my Tx with their eyes closed they would think it’s a PCP rifle. It’s silky smooth. But don’t you just love the ease of being able to shoot your air gun where you couldn’t even think about shooting a firearm… I love it. 🙂


        • GF1

          Yes that is so great. I just get my cheap pellet trap out and all my practical worries dissapear. No hearing protection and happy neighbors. My neighbors aren’t close but I think if I shot a powder rifle 100+ shots in a night they would make the drive to come see me. With a firearm I’m never at ease. Unless I go to the one location with all the right blah blah blah ya know?

          That is seriously cool about the 200+ shots. Serious mileage!!!! Plus you would think less air each shot, less Co2 liquid flashing off to replace pressure of vessel= less cooling effect. Seems you have at least partially proven that when you reported your findings in a more “rapid fire” setting. Plus I find that range pretty amazing for a bb gun.

          You really think someone was inside it? Now that you mention it, that would add up. It is really smooth and the trigger seems like a perfect version of a crosman /gamo trigger. But so much lighter and predictable. Like polished and lubed feeling. Its hard to explain. Its kinda like the trigger on my Diana 45. But shorter first stage and better second stage IMO.

          Id love a tx200 but I’m a lefty… it just makes it that much more expensive. But I would love to have a tuned one. Gotta be as smooth as you say. I kinda have my eye on a hw77 first tho. Plain and might be able to find a used one for a decent price? Idk… I have to drool for a while though, the stable is full for now. Gotta make some room. 😉


          • P.H.,

            With you on the lefty and the TX. Been there, done that,…. did it. I am right handed but left eye dominate. More rifles should be ambidextrous. Dare I say,….. ALL?????



        • Thanks for referring me to this thread with information about your Model 74 Daisy. Over 200 shots from a CO2 can! MY 1077 used to get over 40, but seems like the pellets start dropping around there, and then they drop farther FAST.


          • Birdmove
            No problem and I have a 1077 and I get about 60 shots from it. I’m using the Daisy wadcutters. It’s good out to about 35 yards for that many shots. If I move in closer to say 15 yards I could get another clip of 12 shots. Don’t know about yours but my 1077 is actually very accurate out to 50 yards with JSB 10.34’s but get only about 4 clips of 12 with the heavier pellets before point of impact drops.

            But yes very happy with the Daisy 74. My 18 and 16 year old daughter’s like it more than the 1077 cause we don’t have to stop and keep reloading the clips. Matter of fact ordered another one and it’s suppose to be here Thursday. That way they can do some can shooting competition. Very happy with the one I have right now


      • PH,

        I have always heard good things about the Slavia. I have been tempted quite a few times to pick one up. For the price they are excellent for thinning out the pack of feral soda cans.


    • GunFun1
      I have been looking at the Daisy 74 for a while too and because of your review here I just placed an order for one. Sorry PA but I couldn’t buy from you. By the time it gets across the border the price is almost $125.00 (Duty, brokerage fees, shipping, Customs fees and the difference on the dollar!!). Amazon.ca was the best price for me at the equivalent of about $46.00 USD and free shipping. Should be here by next Wednesday.
      I,m looking forward to shooting it on my indoor range as I need a cheap to use shooter for the upcoming cold winter evenings
      Thanks for the great review.
      Cheers
      Dave


      • Dave
        Another thing it’s easy to use and refill the resivoir. And so easy to reload the 15 shot magazine. Pull the spring loaded pusher back. Turn the gun upside down and give a few shakes and your shooting again. You will use up bb’s with this gun. And I did some super fast pull the trigger shots and the gun kept up. It’s just a totally cool gun.

        And if your shooting indoors and at say 10 yards your probably going to get I bet close to 300 shots on a 12 gram co2 cartridge.

        Please give a update when you get yours on shot count and what you think about the gun. Very interested in what you think. I think it’s going to surprise you. And thanks for ordering on my words about the gun. I hope your happy with yours. 🙂

        Oh and I’m ordering another one to as I have mentioned already. Both daughter’s have shot it and like it more than the 1077 because of how easy it is to load and keep shooting. My wife shoots here and there too. She liked it also because of how light it is and easy to hold. And this is the first gun that I have shot over 500 rounds through without out bench resting it first. I have not yet bench rested it. And still open sights. That’s not the normal for me. I think that says a little there towards the gun too.

        Will be wait for you to report about yours.



    • Sounds interesting, but I think I’ll hold out for the Winchester M-14 if one of the local liquidation stores gets one in at half-price and it looks to be in good shape. I’ve always wanted an M-1 Garande but that’s not going to happen anytime soon. I’m getting more recoil sensitive as I get older so my Ruger American in .243 at about 7 1/2 lbs with scope is enough for me. Don’t think I’d find an M-1 particularly fun to shoot more than a dozen rounds if the few times I’ve got to shoot one is any indication. I’d much rather have an M-1 carbine.


  9. R.R.

    Thank you for the compliments! My optical knowledge is almost all practical. I did learn a little electromagnetism (which includes visible light) in general physics, but the math ain’t my strong suit.

    Thanks!

    Walt


  10. BB– If I put a leapers Diana 460 mag. scope mount base on my Diana Mauser 98K rifle, will it prevent me from using the iron sights, when I remove the scope (qd mounts)? 25@ years ago, I installed a RWS scope on my RWS 52, using a RWS adjustable mount. After about 500 rounds, I removed the scope and mount. the scope stop pin had damaged the stop pin hole in the rifle. If I use Weaver to 11mm adapters on the “Mauser”. will the stop pin damage the rifle ? Ed


    • Ed,

      Yes, you cannot use the iron sights with the adaptor and if the adaptor has the recoil shock shoulder, the holes will not be marred. But if you have to screw two screws into the holes, then there is no guarantee.

      I think it is the latter.

      B.B.


  11. Chris USA
    Yes I do have very simple theory on the pellets. The pellet has different angles and such on the waist of the pellet even the shape of the head. And skirt thickness and so on. Start looking at your pellets closer. Hold them side by side and compare them.

    Set a JSB 33.95 next to the JSB 25.39’s. look at both pellets and compare and see if you see any changes in its shapes and such. I’ll bet there is something different between the two different weight pellets.

    Each pellet just like each gun even though they are the same gun doesn’t mean that one will perform the same. I myself think barrel seasoning is very important. If I was doing some serious field target shooting I would be pellet weighing and head sorting for sure. And I would use the same pellet. Plain and simple I would not change my combination on my gun anyway the day before a competition was to happen including pellets.

    Im not a serious shooter but I do get good results. I stay with one thing and test it for some time before I change. I thoroughly want to now its performance before I make a change. I know from shooting that one day to the next brings a different result in performance. I want multiple days of testing one combination so I can get a average idea of how the performance was.

    If it was me I would pick one of your favorite JSB pellets and shoot that one pellet weight for a full week. No change on the gun. Nothing , zip absalutly no change. Then the next week do the same with another pellet. Making continuos changes ain’t going to do nothing but make things more confusing.


    • GF1,

      What’s up with the Chris USA? Thought you were going for something a little more smart phone friendly? 😉

      As for the other,… slow, steady, proven (is) best. Repeat tests and try to get consistent results. Yes, the pellets are different. I (could) see a “drag” difference,… based on lead contact and “squish” into the breech. I thought that “seasoning” had to do more with the lead “mix” make-up. ? Mmmmm.

      I will keep this in mind. Will post what happens tomorrow,…. tomorrow.


      • CU
        Ok will be waiting as usual to see how it goes for you.

        How was that for a short Chris USA. Really (See You) CU. First time I thought about your initials on your user name. Maybe you should switch to Waisting Lead. 😉


        • GF1,

          “waiting,… as usual”,….. ehh? 🙂

          CU works,…. what ever works for you.

          Of course,…. you know that if I start bustin’ those 3/4″ groups at 100,…. you may have to switch that up to,…. “Oh Hail!!!!!,…. The Great One!!!!”,… followed by,…. “Please bestow your great wisdom upon me,….. 🙂 🙂 🙂



            • GF1,

              Ok,…. you busted me,….. 3/4″ at 100,… on a consistent basis,.. might,.. just might be a weeee bit of a “stretch”. 🙂 Just dreaming I guess. The S510 Ultimate Sporter maybe? 😉 I have only had the TX and LGU out to 70, so yea,… the M-rod would be it.

              Thanks for all the help and suggestions. You got me thinking real hard on that new 74. Sounds like a real blast. GF1,… shootin’ bb’s,… who would have thunk it?


              • CU
                Ask TT about the 500 series AirArms guns. He’s got one.

                Matter of fact TT if your out there. How’s that FWB 800 going?

                Chris today’s blog is about bb guns. I’m really not a bb gun shooter at all. Well in the past anyway. Mind has been changed here lately. But this 74 really is showing its stuff. Call me lucky but the one I got is a good one. This is definitely one of those don’t sell guns. And it does like the smart shot. Won’t shoot as many shots as the lighter steel bb’s out at 20 yards cause they drop off sooner on poi. But they still hit good.

                A $20 box of 40 co2 cartridges will go a long way with the 74. And the Daisy zinc coated bb’s is what I have from the past. They around 7 bucks if I remember right for 4000 bb’s. Then a $39 Daisy 74. Sounds like a heck of a Christmas present for a kid.

                You know this is even more weird. Haven’t even got the Mrod or other air guns out yet this weekend. Been hav’n to much fun with the 74. A big smiley face right now. 🙂


                • GF

                  Not shooting for a while . Want better conditions .
                  Want to try the 800 for some bug hunting . The Hawke with the AMX reticle should be great for the job. Very fine reticle .
                  Might even try to video record some bug hunting .

                  I don’t know that Chris would be interested in the AA rifles . Probably not enough power .

                  twotalon


                  • TT
                    I don’t know. Maybe Chris would like the 500’s velocity. But know you have one so that’s why I mentioned you.

                    Bug bust’n. Now that is fun stuff. When you master that in air gun shooting your one step closer to being a ninja. No Jedi Star Wars stuff. True grass hopper ninja stuff.

                    Wait a minute. Ninjas and Jedi’s are two different things if I’m remembering right.

                    Right?


                    • GF

                      I think that bug wacking is more Jedi than ninja .
                      You get on a bug, and guide the pellet with your mind .

                      The AA crank out about 20 fpe in .22 . My 500 does not have the accuracy I would want for shooting much over 25 yards . It was much worse when I first tried it .

                      twotalon




                    • GF

                      I pulled out the barrel and recrowned it . Then did a bit of work polishing the bore .
                      I tried polishing the transfer port a bit too . Trying to reduce snags .
                      Could probably use a bit more polishing .

                      twotalon




                    • GF

                      You never know what you will get . Once in a while, you will get a fantastic shooter, but it is not something you should count on . Some time you can fix it, some times beyond hope .

                      tt



                  • TT,

                    Thanks for the input on the 500’s. The 510 line always caught my eye. For that kind of coin, those things ought to be tack drivers. Like you said, sometimes you get lucky and get a really good one. I am happy with what I have. I am not about to start playing gun roulette and start buying and selling.

                    I might try a re-crown on the M-rod sometime in the future. But, last time I was in there, it looked really good so I do not see a pressing need to try it.

                    Thanks again, Chris


                    • Chris

                      You are doing good for the distance you are shooting . That’s a long way for a rifle that should really be used closer .
                      I took out a lot of squirrels over the years with firearms . Never cared much for shooting very far over 25 yds . I stayed within a very lethal range . I did not care to have to allow for all kinds of trajectory and wind problems .
                      I will try longer range plinking at times for fun, but when it comes time to be serious, I work close, and with a vengeance .

                      twotalon


                • GF1,

                  Cool,… very cool,….. Glad you are having a blast. One can not argue with the cost of the gun and ammo. Winter is coming,…. Plus,… got to luv that shot count and rapid fire feature. That is some insane shot count for sure.

                  And yea,… some info. on the 510 line would be treat. Especially at 70-100 yards. Not in the market now,… but was looking (real) hard at it at one time.

                  Out’a here for now,…. chill time,…. Chris


  12. Hi BB et al..
    Friday Eve. Aug 19th.
    Well, here we go with the documentation of the home built .22 cal. co2 pellet rifle. If you recall BB, in Mondays email, I said I was getting groups with ctc measurements of 1/8″ or better (.125″) at 15 yards. Today I was able to proove out those ctc measurements again, mathematiocally though and not real world.
    The problem today was too much wind and my 60 yard range in the yard was unuseable because of that. I had to wait for everything to settle down and only got to start shooting about 7:00 PM this evening. All shooting was done from sandbags.
    The first thing was to chrony the rifle with a new co2 cartridge. After the puncture shot and the second dry shot to blow away any cobwebs the chrony gave me readings of 541 fps and 543 fps useing 12.4 grain Beeman Laser pellets. Around 80 to 100 fps faster than a stock 2240 pistol.
    I spent the next 30 shots getting chrony results and getting the gun zeroed at 50 yards with the Point of Impact about 2 inches high and 2 inches to the right of the Point of Aim – in the upper right hand quadrant formed by the reticle lines. I do it this way because I use painted steel targets and sometimes the reticles get in the way of seeing the impact splats clearly.
    Now with everything setup I started again with a fresh co2 cartridge and shot a 10 shot group of 1.370 inches – outside of left splat mark to outside of right splat mark minus .22 inches (pellet diameter) for a group size of 1.15 inches ctc. Useing the Tan Function we can extrapolate that 1.15 inches down to .345 inches ctc which is bang on with the physical ctc groups I was getting at 15 yards and 1 hole groups at 10 metres.
    Temperature at the time was about 55F and the Chrony readings stepped down nicely after the first 10 shots to 509 fps and 507 fps for shots 31 and 32 respectively. I think the gun could get at least 22 to 25 fairly accurate shots without too much hold over on a warmer day.
    This long range shooting has alleviated all concerns I had about how far the shroud sticks out in front of the muzzle. (6 1/2 inches to be exact).
    I think this rifle will be a work in progress. There are so many mods to be found online that it will keep me busy for a while.
    Another thought I have had is to set up the rifle as a Bench Rest Rail Gun (Look it up on Google). I think the design of the gun would lend itself to be easily setup on that kind of mount and I wonder if it is capable of shooting 2 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards??
    I have had a lot of fun working and shooting this rifle and even though it is a bit of an ugly duckling built out of a pile of spare parts I think it is definately a keeper.
    Cheers
    Dave
    PS – as it happens when I try to post my connection is down so will try again Saturday afternoon.


    • Dave
      Nice info on your gun.

      And I have shot 2240’s and 1377’s with the disco barrels and steel breech with the 1399 stock and the 2.5-10 power Hawke sidewinder scopes out at 70 and 80 yards with no problem in .177 and .22 caliber.

      Had good results bench resting them. Haven’t tryed them at a hundred yards though. But I don’t see why it would be a problem once you get your hold or sight in right. Maybe no wind would help. But as they say. Anything is possible. 🙂


  13. Gunfun1
    Hi
    I was caught off gaurd when I began assembling the rifle by how similar the designs were, 262’s 2240’s 2250’s and etc, even being about 10 years apart and that everything just fit! After I realised what was going on it was a pretty simple build.
    Back around the turn of the century I was into modding 2240’s and quite a few have been through my home shop with different mods applied. I still have 2 guns at present, both with 14″barrels. One is a real late 90’s model with a Boss Valve and Williams Notched blade sight. The other is a 2250 from the 90’s as well with a 2240 valve and LPA MIM sights. They are both accurate although the Boss valved gun doesn’t get a very high shot count.
    For quite a few years they were my go-to guns for getting rid of gophers (read Richardson Ground Squirrels) which we were over run with. Not so many now – ha ha. Both guns zeroed at 25 yards.
    I haven’t shot these guns for a few years now, maybe I should take them out for an afternoon and make sure the seals are oiled properly.
    Well, thats all for now, I have to get back to work on a new toy I recieved in the mail yesterday, Mebbe I’ll do a short blog on it next week
    Cheers
    Dave


    • Dave
      You wouldn’t believe how many Crosman guns use interchangeable parts.

      If you look at the schematics. You will see all the interchangeability that is our there.

      That’s why I like Crosman. Look at the fast food restaurants that offer a new fried chicken wing meal. Then 3 week’s later its off the menu and you go what the …. when you like it and want it again.

      Well I like restraunts that stick to their menu. Don’t tease me with something and take it away.

      Crosman keeps with the ball game. They serve up their menu plain as day. More so than some other air gun suppliers.

      Sorry about ranting on the subject. But hate the company’s that don’t back up their products with repair parts. Not to say that they don’t have quality guns. But I want parts 20 years from now to repair them like most good gun makers do.

      Should I list the names of company’s that still provide parts to guns that are over 15 years old? Probably not. Most people already know that answer.


      • Gunfun1
        You’re right you know. While building the rifle the only part I didn’t have was the tiny front breech screw. I was able to find a screw with the right threads but had to work it down to fit. As well I had to grind down the head and make a slot. Lots of fun with a Dremel and magnifier. It worked but interfered with pellets when loading. Have to be really careful not to scratch up the pellet skirt. Thanks to Crosman I was able to find the correct replacement online. And actually better because it’s a Phillips head screw which will not interfere in any way with loading pellets.
        Cheers
        Dave


        • Dave
          You know what. I don’t use that front screw sometimes. I rely on the barrel band clamp.

          The Discovery steel breech has the screw back behind the bolt. The steel breech that Crosman sales for the 1377/22 and 2240 is the forward screw that tends to interfere with pellet loading. That’s why I like the Discovery breech instead of the other breech.

          You know the main tubes have changed throughout the years too. Some are drilled and tapped in both locations to accept that screw your taking about. Some in only one or the other location.

          Like I said that’s why I order the Discovery steel breech through Crosman. It allows for the smoother pellet loading with less chance of pellet damage.


  14. To whom it may concern and everyone else who should read this,

    I finally had some range time yesterday with my new Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk and I am ready to give it my RidgeRunner Review.

    First thing out of the box, this air rifle has a real nice looking walnut stock that comes to shoulder nicely and just fits me real nice. The fit of the stock to the rifle was also very nice. Did I say the stock was nice?

    Next thing I noticed was the poor quality control exhibited by the poor alignment of the machined edges of the barrel block and the compression tube. Also, the back, top edge of the barrel block had burrs. If I had bought this air rifle for $270 from PA, I would have immediately boxed it back up and returned it for a refund. Since I had only paid $100 for it from another well known airgun retailer and knew there were issues I decided to proceed with my review.

    I took it outside without mounting any sights and fired a few pellets through it to see what the firing cycle was like. Can you say harsh? It had a sudden, hard firing cycle that sounded like it could use a little grease in there. Over the next few days I pulled it out of the stock and lubricated the spring with a product called “TUNE IN A TUBE”. It is a red grease in a syringe that allows you to lubricate the spring through the cocking lever slot without have to totally disassemble your air rifle. This helped smooth out the firing cycle, though it is still hard. I give “TUNE IN A TUBE” a RRR rating.

    I also took note of the Quatro trigger and found it to be pretty decent. No, it is not an Air Arms or Rekord, but it is much better than a Crosman or a Gamo. After it has broken in I anticipate it will be even better.

    Saturday I finally had the opportunity to mount a scope and see how it shoots. I mounted a UTG 4-12×44 Compact SWAT. I could not zero the rifle because of too much “droop”, but I was able to shoot groups. While shooting I noticed that I had severe dieseling with the lighter pellets I tried. I hope this will cease after a bit. The Crosman Premier Hollow Points were very tight and did not do very well. The 15+ grain JSBs showed promise and if the dieseling stops I will revisit them.

    The pellet that shined in this rifle was the H&N Baracuda. I was able to shoot a ten shot group at 25 yards that eight of which would be completely hidden under a quarter! I then took and shot at a ¾” spinner I have at 25 yards and hit it six out of eight shots! Keep in mind that I have not had a break barrel sproinger for many years and then only briefly and this was my first range session with it!

    Needless to say I am quite impressed with the performance of this air rifle. Yes, I am disappointed with some of the machine work, but for price I paid for this rifle I can live with it. I need to restock on my Baracudas so I can give this rifle a good workout and see how it does when it quits dieseling and is broken in, but I think I can confidently say this air rifle has earned a spot in my “collection”. I give the Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk the coveted RRR rating.



      • TT,

        Thanks on the above compliment. I think I am shooting in the dark most times. It is those darn groups that puts 5 of 10 in 3/8″ at 50 yards that keeps me thinking that I am onto something. More like chasing my tail,…. 🙂 Today was a good day. At least appears to be moving in the right direction. Now,… let’s just see if I can keep it moving that way. I am not holding my breath though,….. Ok,…. maybe just a little….. 😉


    • RR,

      Well, you have uncovered the reason that Webley had so much trouble. First they exported manufacture of their airguns tom Turkey. The Turks are capable of building airguns just as fine as those made by the Brits, but apparently the new Webley management team price4d the contract so low they destroyed the integrity of the design.

      The point is — the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel does not need a second coat!

      B.B.


      • BB,

        It is like I said, the air rifle actually is pretty nice IF you do not mind tinkering with it a little. I bought it brand new for $100. If I had paid $270 for it I would have had a fit. As you pointed out, the contractual price likely did not leave a large enough margin for the fit and finish this air rifle deserves, however if you can set some of the cosmetics aside, I think this is going to be a real shooter and very likely will stay with me. Not many do.


    • RR
      Sounds like a nice gun. Don’t know if I would care for shooting it all day with that kind of shot cycle though. And looks like it’s liking the Barracudas. You will have to give us a update as you get more time on it.


      • GF1,

        Out playin’,…. cut the 70 yard group in near half with one combo. Striker full back and have been playing with port screw and parallax. Back later after some more confirmation. (2hrs.?)



          • GF1,

            To keep it simple, I started out with Hammer 6 in, Striker full back and Port Screw 4 from bottom. 25.39’s, 70 yards, 3400 fill, refill every 16, eight shot groups, .25 M-rod.

            I ran the port screw in to 3, 2 1/2 and 2 1/4 from bottom, giving each adjustment 2 eight shot groups.

            Started out with 2″ groups on average, sub 2″,…. and went from there. At 2 1/2 turns from bottom on the Port Screw, things tightened up considerably.

            Actual groups, 8 shots, were 1 1/4″, 1 7/16″ and 1 3/16″. The last one blew open to 2 9/16″ with 4 in 1/2″,….. so not sure what to make of that????? It was the last 8 of 96, so maybe I was tired.

            I will post again on parallax in case this post vaporizes.


            • CU
              So what was your best group size today was1-3/16″ but you had the last group going a 1/2″ for 4 shots then opened up right?

              So maybe you were pushing to much air through the barrel. Maybe now the shot cycle of the gun got better. Or it’s timed better to when the pellet leaves the barrel for how you hold the gun.

              And waiting for your parallax info.


          • GF1,

            On parallax,… I did your test. I used the 50 and 20. Started at 50 yard at 10 mag., went to the 20 yard, dropped mag. to 5.25, all clear,.. back to the 50,…. looked good. The point?

            Another parallax test,…… at 70 yards,.. adjusted AO until no reticle movement could be detected. The knob ended up at 175 yards. Shot 2 eight shot groups. Re-adjusted the AO back to 70. Some reticle movement detected. Shot 2 eight shot groups. Both groups same,… all about 1 3/4″.

            Oh, on the Port screw,….. at 4 and at 2 1/2 turns from bottom,…. both seemed to use about 300 psi per 8 shots. No real savings on air. Maybe a tad better at 2 1/2 in.


            • CU
              The point of what you did with my test is you found out what magnification is focused clearly at in close distances and all the way out to the longer distances.

              So 5.250 magnification will allow you to shoot at 20 to 50 yards with out adjusting your side wheel. You could probably be good out to 60 yards. And maybe even into 15 yards with the picture starting to be a little out of focus.

              And now if you use that magnification of 5.250 and set your side wheel at 100 yards. You should be able to focus clear at a 100 yards all the way into 20 yards.

              That is basically how I have the .22 Talon SS and my .25 Mrod set. But it works out to 6 magnification for my Hawke sidewinder scopes. And that is exactly how I determined my 6 magnification that I use.

              And on the transfer port flow adjustment if it’s not making a difference in air use then set it to give you the best accuracy. That’s something to look more into for your particular gun.

              So your last group of the first 4 shots went into a 1/2″ at 70 yards. That’s pretty good. You are using the lighter JSB’s. Did wind come into play on the last shots of that group and open things up. Maybe not. Maybe so. But I myself still rather shoot a heavier pellet then a lighter one.


              • GF1,

                I do like the lower mag. levels for the added clarity. I do the higher (10 at 100) just to see the target/bull better. Good points though.

                As for that last group,.. I am not going to loose any sleep over it. The other 3 proved the setting. That was the biggest improvement BY FAR over anything that I have tried. And yea,… the first 3 all went into that 1/2″ and then one of the others from 4-8.

                And yes,… all 25.39’s. That is what I have the most recent data on,… so that is what I stuck with. You sayin’ switch? That coming from “Mr. No Switch” till after a whole bunch of shots. 😉 Yes, I would prefer to use the heavier 33.95’s. No wind today. It is a very nice day with the humidity finally down.

                I can not wait for Fall. I love Fall.


                • CU
                  What I’m saying is I like the heavier pellets for windy conditions and the extra retained energy at longer distances. The lighter pellets will billed of speed faster than a heavier pellet to. So that makes a difference too for longer distance shooting. And no I would shoot at least 4 days on the set up you have now with those 25 grain JSB’s. Then don’t you h anything on the gun and shoot the 33.95 JSB’s for a minimum of 4 days. Then compare results.

                  And getting ready to post a short video of the 74 shooting a feral can down below.


      • GF1,

        I would strongly suggest that you open that wallet of yours and get one of these while they are still available. At this price you will not go wrong. It is not that hard to cock and the firing cycle since I lubed it is not really that bad, better than the 46E at the moment, though that will change this week.

        With a $100 price tag it is an awesome buy. I am serious about the RRR rating at that price. You will spend more than twice that much for a sproinger that shoots as nice. Just do it! If you don’t like it after a little TLC, I will take it off of your hands.


        • RR
          I already got too many guns right now again. Plus another Daisy 74 on the way.

          It sounds like a nice gun and especially for that price. I just don’t need another single shot air gun right now. Got enough of those to take care of me for awhile. Plus not really crazy about break barrels. The only ones I really trust right now are the German made guns.

          Now if the gun you got was a fixed barrel underlever in .22 or .177 caliber and cost that much I would have to say I would be more likely to get one.

          But like I said it sounds like a nice gun. But just not for me.


  15. BB–Ridge runner–Re dieseling, my new HW 30S did the same thing. The dealer told me to shoot heavy pellets, and it worked. I would think that a heavy pellet would have a longer dwell time , before moving down the barrel. This should allow the hot air in the compression chamber to vaporize more lubricant and cause dieseling. The lighter pellet moves faster, lowering the air temperature to drop faster. My explanation is incorrect. BB– can you explain why an air gun does not diesel with heavy pellets ? Thanks, Ed


  16. BB–I just read your 3 part article re dieseling. You wrote that increasing the back pressure “SEEMS” to stop dieseling. But no explanation of why it happens. I am reminded of the demonstrations of trying to ignite a vapor or gas (hydrogen) when there is no oxygen mixed in . This is similar to the problem that faced the British in WW1, when trying to shoot down German Zeppelins and observation balloons. Thats why the French used rockets against the balloons. Is it possible that there is too much oil vapor and too little oxygen when the back pressure is increased. I recently installed a Vortex tune kit in my old (20 years @) Beeman R7. The original piston seal had a deposit of carbon on it, like the cylinder screw on my M 1 Garands after firing. So it has been burning oil for a long time. Ed PS– you must be thinking about thanksgiving–tom Turkey


    • Zim,

      A possible explanation of why the heavier pellets help with dieseling is they do increase the back pressure, causing more efficient burning, thereby less smoke. After a point there is less oil to burn, therefore even less smoke, even with the lighter pellets.

      This is all WAG by the way, but I am usually pretty close when I do such. 😉


  17. B.B.,

    On the above comment of me shooting at 70 and having to adjust the AO to 175 yards to (eliminate reticle movement),… I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Confusing,.. to me anyways,… was even though it worked and worked very well (first time I had tried it),… the groups with the AO set at 70 were no better or worse.

    I know parallax can be a can of worms to explain,… so pass if you want. If I re-read your past articles correctly,…..

    1) You will never completely eliminate parallax
    2) Perhaps most important,.. is to have a (very) consistent cheek weld

    My cheek weld is very good with the AR comb riser stock. Much easier. I am trying real hard to keep that the same.

    Thanks,… Chris



      • B.B.,

        Thanks. I really did not care where it ended up at. The other day when I did it,… it ended up at 125.

        I was (very) surprised at how well it worked. I was hoping that would be part of my “secret recipe”. That was very cool to move my eye up and down and side to side and NOT see the reticle move -vs- some other AO setting.

        I guess my good cheek (bone) weld is making up for the differences in the 2 settings (70 vs 175),… as the groups were the same,… 2 eight shot groups each.

        Thanks again,…Chris


        • CU
          So your good cheek bone weld is making up the difference at longer distances.

          You just said in your comment that when you did move your cheek away from the gun that up and down or left and right that the reticle stayed on target.

          So how did keeping your cheek bone in place make a difference. You have two different answers here if I’m reading it right.


          • GF1,

            Mmmmm? What I did say is that I did 2 (different) test and ended up with the (same) results.

            I am assuming you have done the same test. I only pull up off the cheek weld a little and move my head/eye just a little. You WILL see the reticle move around the bull. Keep adjusting the AO in or out until you can (not) see that happen,… or happen very, very little.

            I am not sure what to make of it,… if anything. One thing B.B. did stress was the repeated cheek weld in past articles. I can’t do that with the TX or LGU. With the cheek riser AR stock on the M-rod,… it is much easier. Near fool proof even. Add in the eye bellows and get an repeated eye socket/forehead weld and well,…. I will just say that it is nice,… real nice. The only variable that enters is the amount of pressure applied. Solid and firm seems to be working best.

            I do not know how else to explain it. I sure can not explain the (same) results,…. for sure anyways.


            • CU
              Hmm I guess I must always get my parallax adjustment and magnification right then. I never had problems shooting good groups if I didn’t get my cheek placed in the same place.

              Matter of fact the 1322/77’s and 2240’s with the steel breech and Discovery barrel and even my 1720T where all very accurate guns. I had the Hawke varmint sidewinder scopes on them as well as the 1399 Crosman stock.

              The 1399 stock makes it next to impossible to repeat eye placement. The comb drops off fast so no way to even rest your cheek on the comb. Probably about a inch or more away.

              I could very easily shoot 3/4″ groups at 50 yards bench resting them. And I’m positive I never repeated my line of sight with those guns.

              Sounds to me like you should move into 50 yards and shoot anyone of your scoped guns. Try a couple groups of 10 and use radically different eye placement on two groups and see what happens. I’m interested to see how that goes now that you have the parallax correct. Or do you?


              • GF1,

                Ahhhh,…. the mystery deepens. I don’t know. For now,… I will just adjust the AO for clarity at the range I am shooting at,.. at that time. If I get into to plinking at random yardages,… I will give the “range adjustment setting” more consideration.

                As you well know,… I have been trying to ring out the best accuracy and consistency from the M-rod. (You have been a great help in that). You have suggested many things and I have tried most,.. if not all of them.

                Parallax or no parallax,…. let me run with what I got for the time being. Today looked like a good step forward.


                • CU
                  Yes stay with what you have. I just want to point out that seriously cheek placement doesn’t matter. What matters is keeping your hold of the gun so the scope reticle is fixed on the target. What’s important is to repeat that hold each shot to get a good group. Of course there will be flyers and such.

                  I just got my Mrod and shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards with my parallax set at 100 yards like what I shoot at always. And of course 6 magnification. I held my head to the left with my cheek about 1-1/2″ from the comb of the gun. Guess what. A .600″ group. Then I did 5 more shots with my cheek positioned over the top of the comb and about 1″ to the right. I even had my head back about a inch from the scope farther away than were I usually place my eye. That group of 5 shots was actually a .550″ group.

                  Then I adjusted the parallax down in yardage till I seen the reticle move when I placed my eye in a different position. About 65 yards on my scope is where that happened at with my scope. So did two more groups of 5 shots like how I placed my eye on the above mentioned groups. Absolutely the same size groups. Actually .525″ groups.

                  What I want to stress is I made sure I held the reticle on target each shot the best I could.

                  All I’m suggesting you to try at some point is leave your magnification as you have it now. Leave your parallax set as you have it now. Then shoot some 5 shot groups at 50 yards with your eye in different places. And try to hold the reticle on target the best you can. Then I want to see if it changed your group size or location on the target. That will verify if eye placement matters or not.

                  What I did today did not matter where my eye placement was. What did matter is how well I kept the reticle on target.


                  • GF1,

                    Thank you for taking the time out from the bb shooting to prove your point. I will try in the future.

                    Of course,… it goes without saying that one always tries to keep the reticle on the bull,…. (regardless) if one is aware or not that their cheek weld is not repeated.

                    Very interesting. I am sure that this little back and forth we have going has left B.B. scratching his head. It does play into the current “accuracy” series. Just how,.. I am not sure. I had hoped to answer that for myself today. So much for that.


                    • Chris U
                      Ok I’m changing to this when I respond to you. Chris U as in Chris University. I think there is definitely some eye opening going on here. And I’m sure more to come. Definitely making me think about this air gun stuff.

                      And thats not a bad thing. 🙂


                    • Chris U
                      And forgot.

                      You know that this scope stuff can be just as mysterious as those little pieces of flying lead. 😉




    • GF1,

      Not bad. Looks like fun. I was thinking a bit more “can dancing” though. My first thought was,… “Let me bust some .25’s into that puppy!” 😉

      Very cool you have the video stuff figured out. Keep it up. (Matter of fact, do the .25 on some steel cans at 20 yards. I bet you would bounce them down range 10 feet at a time.)


      • CU
        Yep I wasn’t hitting on the edge of the can on some shots. Was hitting in the middle so the can would just do a little bump.

        And if I shot the can at 20 yards with my .25 Mrod it would just go right through and you wouldn’t even see the can bump. Even hitting on the edge of the can.

        And that was standing unsupported when I was shooting. For a bb gun to hit that well at 20 and medium fast firing that’s pretty good hits.

        Firing one shot at a time bench resting like you do with your 499 is a whole lot different than shooting unsupported standing. Then throw the rapid fire in. That makes it hard to stay on the can with all that trigger movement pulling you around. Most bb guns won’t even hit a 2 litre bottle out at 20 yards bench rested. Let alone standing unsupported.

        Ok I’m going to ask you a question again. Have you tryed shooting your pistol standing unsupported out at 20 yards yet at some cans? My Python shoots pretty good like that but it’s shooting pellets. Your pistol shoots pellets too so you should have some pretty good results fast firing it at 20 yards. What ya think. You going to give it a try. Heck take your 499 outside and see what it will do at 20 yards standing unsupported. I bet it will be fun.



        • GF1,

          I know that you are serious. I have not. See,…. there was this dude that talked me into all this crazy, long range, high powered shooting. PCP’s and such.

          Can’t remember who that was now,…. but darn it,…. I am hooked! Unless I am stuck indoors,…. under 50 is just not of much interest.

          🙂 Chris



          • LOL! I was at the opposite end of the spectrum with air rifles when I started with them. My first air rifle was a Gamo CFX. My next air rifle was a FWB 601. For me accuracy is of the utmost importance, no matter what the range. I have been very slowly extending the range. That is why I have hesitated to buy an MRod.

            I am at this moment tinkering and hotrodding an AirForce Edge and it is giving me close to the accuracy at 50 yards that an MRod can and I expect that soon I will surpass such.

            Once I can achieve such I will be looking at 100-150 yards and I know the MRod will not do what I want. It will be big bore time.

            I see myself with likely no more than four air rifles and maybe two air pistols. My 1906 BSA is for 10 yard shooting and feral soda can killing. My new Webley will fill in for my break barrel. I would like a PCP for under 100 yards and likely my Edge will fill that slot. I want a long range/big bore for reaching way out there. I have a 100 yard range set up at the moment and I think I can easily extend that out to 200 yards.

            My problem is I insist on 1 MOA or less. I have come to accept that to do such with a sproinger is just about impossible, but I keep on trying.


            • RR,

              Those are some lofty goals. “Insist” on 1 MOA. ??? I would not overlook the M-rod. That would be a good step up to your “long range, big bore, mega blaster”. 😉 “Edge”,…. ain’t that the little “pup” of that pack. 😉

              Me?,….. I would be tickled pink to do 2 MOA on a consistent basis.


              • Chris,

                That goal may be lofty, but it is achievable. There are air rifles capable of such, most are not “off the shelf” though and the price tag is considerably larger than the M-rod.

                As for my Edge, it is not so much of a puppy right now. I have modified it to where the trigger is almost as nice as a FWB and it is shooting at almost 12 FPE. When I last shot it right after my last modification I shot a ten shot group at fifty yards that was .8″ CTC. Not bad for a little puppy. With some more range time I believe I could tighten that up some. My next modification will be an 18″ barrel which will give me a little more power and maybe an even better chance at sub MOA.

                What is really neat is all of the modifications I am doing to my Edge are “drop in”. I can remove them and return it to original if I desire.


                • RR,

                  I was just funnin’ with you a bit. I have the same goals actually. Remember that shoot off GF1 and I had. He got 13/16″ at 100. I got that with 7 of 10. Similar results at 50, sub 1/2″. So yes, the M-rod will do it. I just want to be able to that on a repeated basis.

                  Like we have been discussing,…. at what point do you chalk it up to skill and at what point do you chalk it up to “The Luck of the Landing”? Repeated results,… over time.

                  Drop in mods. are a sweet thing. More should offer that. With the RAI stock, I am hooked so bad on the LOP and comb riser, front grip, bi-pod, etc.,…. it would be real hard to give that up. Any looks aside,…. it just plain fits to a T. I like the repeaters too.

                  I am waiting for Buldawg76 to get his together. If you remember, that is a guy that liked the long range power and accuracy and would stop at nothing to get it. Yes,.. I am waiting for that one.


            • RR
              Let me know if you find a air gun that does that out at 100+. And cost near to what a Mrod costs.

              I will probably get one too. I know but I got wants too. Cost is important too.





                    • RR
                      Oh ok I thought you just wanted to do some longer range target shooting or plinking. Even with the 70 fpe that mine is making right now would probably be pushing it to dispatch a coon. But I know it will do a sqerrial or rabbit at that distance no problem.

                      So yep if you want to deer hunt also maybe you should look at the AirForce Texan. It would do it. And it’s only around double the cost of a .25 Marauder.

                      Like I said. Right now my .25 Marauder works for me.



                  • GF1,

                    I could not comment at your below post, but the Marauder is on my short list. It is a superb air rifle at any price range. I only wish Crosman would bring out a version to appeal to the more traditional hunters such as myself. A nice well shaped walnut stock would go a long way to have me open my wallet. Yes, I can buy a M-rod and put it in a custom stock and tinker with this, that and the other and before long I should have just bought the Daystate or Air Arms that I turned the Marauder into.

                    As far as big bores go, Crosman seems to be absolutely clueless. I have shot the Rogue and the Bulldog. If you gave them to me I might see if I could turn them into something decent, but I would more than likely just pawn them off on someone else. They should just take a long, hard look at the Marauder and see what they can do with it.

                    No, what we get is “Duh, maybe we can take the Bulldog and turn it into a bow?” What else are they going to do with all the Bulldog parts they have laying around?


                    • RR
                      A .35 caliber barrel on a Marauder would be a good start if Crosman would venture to go to a bigger caliber on a conventional gun.


                • RR

                  I was lucky enough to shoot a .30 cal RAW at 35 yards (not enough room to stretch it out).
                  It made one hole groups (well a big hole because of the size of the pellet 😉 With 44 grain JSB’s, it chronied at right around 900 FPS and got around 30+ shots with a 3500 psi fill (If I can remember right). Martin makes great air rifles. Many of the field target guys who shot PCP’s in TN shoot one (in 177 of course)





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