by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- The Spittin’ Image
- What is it?
- Catapult gun
- A kinetic gun?
- Very low power
- Cowboys are cool
- Four variations
- The Holy Grail
- The pistol
- That’s all for today
The Spittin’ Image
In 1960, Daisy Manufacturing Company embarked on a marketing campaign that was to blossom into one of the largest segments of the airgun market. They brought out their model 179 BB pistol that was copied after the Colt Single Action Army revolver. A few years later they brought out their first 1894 that was highly successful, and a half-century after that not many people remember the first Spittin’ Image BB gun.
Daisy’s 179 BB pistol came out in 1960 — the first of the Spittin’ Image guns.
Today the lookalike airgun market is huge. It’s expanding all the time, with more and more realistic models coming out every day. You can argue that the 179 was not even the first such airgun Daisy made. many folks think their Targetmaster BB pistol copies the Colt Woodsman Match Target and the Number 25 slide action BB gun was patterned after the Winchester model 12 shotgun. But in 1960 the term Spittin’ Image was first used to describe this pistol as an intentional lookalike.
What is it?
The 179 is important for another reason. It operates differently that any other BB gun, as far as I can determine. When I first reported on this airgun in 2007, I called it a catapult gun, but I’ve thought about that more and no longer believe that term describes it accurately. A catapult launches something with the energy of a spring.
Catapult gun
There are many catapult-style airguns. The Johnson Indoor Target Gun is one example. It uses elestic bands to launch a BB at low speeds, but it is remarkably accurate at close range. Another series of catapult guns are the Sharpshooter pistols that owe their lineage to the Bulls Eye pistol that was first made in 1932. These pistols all use number 6 birdshot and launched by rubber bands. And who can forget the powerful Hodges catapult gun that was actually a big bore (though it has no barrel and therefore no real bore)! Yes, indeed, there are many catapult guns.
Johnson Indoor Target gun was another popular catapult gun.
But the Daisy 179 doesn’t work like the others. Instead of a launcher that accelerates the projectile to terminal velocity by means of an elastic band, a BB in the 179 gets whacked by the hammer in the same way you send your opponent’s croquet ball off course — by whacking your own ball that’s in contact with your opponent’s ball. You step on your ball to keep it in place, and the kinetic energy of the mallet blow is transmitted through your ball to your opponent’s ball.
A kinetic gun?
So, what do we call this? Is it a variation of a catapult, or does it rate a different term of its own? It it a kinetic gun? I don’t know. What I do know is there aren’t many others like it. I can’t think of any, but I don’t know everything, either.
Very low power
Catapult guns all share a common trait — low velocity. The book, The Practical Guide to Man-Powered Bullets, by Richard Middleton, is an excellent study on the subject. In it I learned that going above about 225 f.p.s. with a catapult is difficult, if not impossible. The author calculates the maximum possible velocity of a catapult powered by elastic bands to be 270 f.p.s., but in his tests that speed was never reached. As an interesting sidenote, Middleton mentions what I have called “splatology” briefly in his book and he even refers to, The Crossbow, Sir Ralph Payne Gallwey’s book that mentions it from back in the 19th century.
Now I will tell you that the kinetic powerplant of the 179 is even less efficient than the true catapult. I will save the velocity test for Part 2, but it’s going to be very slow. One reader commented when I first wrote about the 179 that I had shown him something even slower than a Marksman 1010 — an airgun he thought was the slowest.
Cowboys are cool
When the 179 came out the most popular shows on television were about cowboys. It may be difficult to imagine today, but that was a time when every kid in this country wanted to be a cowboy when he grew up. Actually, most of us didn’t grow up, we just got older and larger. But we all wanted to be cowboys.
Anything cowboy was going to sell. And the 179 was the only game in town, if you wanted something to come out of the gun. Oh, you could launch Shootin’ Shells with Greenie Stick-‘Em Caps in a Fanner 50 toy gun, but the 179 was a real BB gun, and therefore much more desirable.
Four variations
The 179 exists in four variations, with two of them being primary. The first variation was produced from 1960 until 1981 and is characterized by having no safety. The gun was dropped in ’81 but demand forced it back into production in 1992. This time it had a crossbolt safety that differentiates the second variation from the first. The second production run ended in 1996 and the number of guns made was much lower than what was made in the first run, so this one will be harder to find. But the story doesn’t end there. In 2004 Daisy found a supply of parts in their warehouse that had been returned from a foreign customer. They had shipped the guns as parts, so the customer could assemble them in their own country, but politics turned the sale around.
From these parts Daisy assembled the final 700 model 179s they ever made. They put them in special vintage-looking boxes with certificates of authenticity signed by former Daisy employee and museum curator, Orin Ribar. They sold them from their museum over the course of the next few years. This variation is identical to the second variation and must be accompanied by the box and certificate. And it doesn’t end there, either.
The last 179 Daisy made was a run of 700 made from parts returned from South Africa. They were sold by the Daisy Museum and must be accompanied by the box and signed certificate of authenticity.
The Holy Grail
Daisy made up a small number of 179s made from solid brass parts. These guns are sometimes called “salesman’s samples” but they were more likely made up as special gifts and presentation guns. They are painted gray and weigh 2.7 lbs., so the difference from the other 179s is apparent. The Blue Book of Airguns says a perfect one is worth $2,000, but that’s just a guess. I would imagine they would go for a lot more than that and they wouldn’t have to be perfect, either. I have never seen one of these, and there aren;’t many airguns I can say that about.
The pistol
Okay, I have given you a lot of history — some of it that’s not even in the Blue Book — but now let’s take a look at the gun itself. The 179 is a 12-shot repeater. The BBs are in-line in a tubular magazine with a spring-loaded follower. The cylinder is just molded into the metal body. It doesn’t move. [Editor’s note: I originally described the body as plastic, and a sharp reader called me on it. Indeed, the frame or body is metal.]
I will now describe the physical characteristics of the gun that I own, which is one of the ones sold by the Daisy Museum. The gun weighs 1 lb. 1.25 oz. It is finished with a shiny black paint. The grips are dark brown plastic molded to look like wood.
Cock the gun by pulling the hammer back until the sear catches. When you release the hammer after cocking it rotates forward a half inch. Pulling the trigger fires the gun. The hammer is pulled forward by a strong spring and it hits the BB that’s sitting in the breech. The force of the impact sends the BB on its way.
The hammer is cocked and the pistol is ready to fire.
Even though the gun is low velocity, the hammer is quite hard to cock. You certainly cannot fire the gun rapidly.The light weight of the gun and the strength of the hammer spring combine to make operation a deliberate act.
That’s all for today
I’m going to stop here. There is a little more introduction to do and I will cover it in Part 2, along with velocity and probably accuracy, as well. I will talk about the trigger, the cocking effort and the sights, such as they are.
Here’s some nostalgia I found last night on the internet from 21 years ago this month (March of 1996):
The Airgun Letter
3/25/96
We have been testing an RWS48 for The Airgun Letter since Dec.
1995. Our gun is in .177 and performs very nicely, but it has
broken its spring at just under 2000 shots. From the
correspondence we’ve received, spring breakage is very typical of
the 48/52-series rifles. Many of our readers predicted that our
spring would break in three pieces, one inch off each end, which
is exactly what it did.
You can’t tell your spring is broken by the feel of the gun or
even by the cocking effort. It remains a very smooth-shooting
gun. Only a chronograph will alert you to a loss in velocity.
We also have a model 52 in .22 caliber. Like you, we assumed that
22 was the ideal caliber for this rifle. Our 52 is an earlier
production gun than our 48 and is identified by the lack of a
reinforcing groove on the sidelever. Our 52 vibrates quite a bit
and is one of the heaviest recoiling guns we have ever
encountered. If we were going to keep it stock, its firing
behavior would present a problem. But because we know the spring
will probably break soon, we’re going to retune the rifle before
anything happens.
Jim Maccari (410-398-2086) both tunes these rifles and supplies
the parts, including springs that he makes, for hobbiests to do
their own tuneups. Our 48 has one of his springs and is now
performing beautifully. Maccari’s springs have a reputation of
not breaking nor taking a set over many years of hard use. The
Bullseye Airgun Club in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, uses Maccari’s
parts exclusively in their 48/52 rifles. They think so much of
this design that they have all gotten rid of their TX200s in
favor of the slightly more powerful 48/52.
Properly tuned, you’re probably not going to see much over 1000
fps in .177 in this rifle. The factory mainspring is definitely
overstressed, as the early failure indicates. At the speeds you
can obtain (950+ fps with Crosman 7.9-grain Premier pellets),
this sidelever is a flat-shooting highly competitive air rifle.
The trigger in our 48 is a sheer delight, breaking crisply at
about one lb. We have done nothing to it but use it. Our 52,
which only has a couple of hundred shots on it so far, breaks at
2-3/4 lbs. and is not nearly as positive as the one on the 48.
Be aware that the barrels on these sidelevers are universally
mounted out of line with the receiver. To get a scope working on
a 48/52 requires an adjustable mount. The typical orientation is
that the barrel shoots low and to the left.
We publish The Airgun Letter, a monthly newsletter for airgun
users & collectors. Stop in at our Web site:
http://www.airgunletter.com
If you’d like a free copy of the newsletter, please e-mail your
name & mailing address (no obligation, no follow-up).
Tom Gaylord
The Airgun Letter
John,
Thank you for that blast from the past.
B.B.,
I realize you have time constraints and articles are always better when accompanied pictures, but you could possibly start releasing a text only version reprints from your Airgun Newsletter. Having never seen a single copy I have no idea if this is possible even.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I actually have done that in this blog. When I was in the hospital for 3 months in 2010, Edith put several of my Airgun Letter and Airgun Revue articles in the blog, as she kept it going all that time.
B.B.
B.B.,
I recall she did but I think you have a lot more articles still waiting in reserve for your rainy days. Your Airgun Letter ran for 5 years from what comments I can see on the internet. The Airgun Revue from what I can gather were 6 issues only.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
It ran for 9 years. Airgun Revue was 100 pages per issue, so those 6 issues had a lot of stuff in them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wow! Never having seen an example of either one I had no idea what were the contents or how much was in them. This blog has run longer than the Airgun Letter though. I do wish there was a way those old articles can be brought to the internet without breaking any copyright laws.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
It is my hope to someday have enough time to make a compilation of all the old newsletters.
B.B.
B.B.
I remember this one as possibly/probably the worst gun I ever owned. To this very day, it remains not only tied with the at-least-equally-awful Model 100 Daisy but precluded any future purchase of a Daisy product for the next half-century.
(Well, okay, the 499 has been the exception, but only because Tom and Edith told me to buy it. They were right, by the way.)
As I recall, this one came as a trade-in from a local gun store and it actually generated negative numbers on the trade-in. In other words, the former owner would have done about $5 better on the trade-in had he denied any knowledge much less ownership of it.
At the time, having a budding security business, we used it as a training aid for disarming drunks at the Renaissance Faire, which it was very good for. (We were a lot more worried about broadswords and battle-axes and such, all of which were all-too-available.)
But those be stories for another day.
One of these days I’ll tell the story of just how the fluff (the Sheriff’s girl) singlehanded like disarmed a brandishing broadsword-wielder while the Sheriff (Me) looked on.
Really.
David,
Your Daisy 100 may have been bad (never owned one), but Wamo thought enough of it to buy the plans from Daisy. That’s where their Powermaster .22 single shot pistol came from.
B.B.
I have a first generation 179, the only plastic parts on the gun are the grips, and the nylon follower that pushes the BBs from the magazine tube to the barrel.
The body of the pistol is metal.
It is also the exact same size as my 1873 powder burner.
The umarex colt is a somewhat smaller frame than the real 1873, and longer plow handle grips (to hide the co2 cartridge) but no one ever mentions that.
The power of the gun?
It can penetrate 3, count them THREE, SHEETS OF COPY PAPER at point blank range.
It will roll a empty soda can at 10 ft,
It was my first bb pistol.
And I still love it.
45Bravo,
Good catch! After reading your comment I got a sick feeling in my stomach that I might have said something wrong, so I pull;ed the gun out of the closet and indeed, it does have a metal frame!
I have edited the text to get it right.
Thanks!
B.B.
LOL! David hates it and Bravo loves it! It is just one of those type BB guns.
It was my first NEW air gun (or kenetic gun) I ever got. I was 9 years old, got it for Christmas.
And got it taken away that same Christmas Day.
I didn’t get it back until the NEXT Christmas.
When I got a new spitting image 1984 rifle.
So I got a matched set the second Christmas.
Not the most powerful, not the most accurate.
But I still love it…
I don’t think too many people ever consider the fact that one day in the future a lot of the things we own may be sought after by collectors. Who ever thought our furniture from the 50’s would ever be considered “Mid Century” décor.
After all, ‘today’ we can always go to the store and get another one…. until the day you discover you can’t and then regret throwing it away later on in life. Kinda like that shoebox full of baseball cards we had as a kid.
In todays world we are aware that people collect just about everything. Especially rare things can really become valuable in a lifetime. In the 50’s there wasn’t a lot to collect, rocks, baseball cards and marbles were big and not too many people had disposable cash, but today is another story.
Think twice before you throw something away, no wait, I mean ‘recycle’ it. We don’t throw stuff away anymore, do we? Wonder how much my wire stock Daisy will be worth some day?
B.B.,
Very nice article. I was really getting into reading the background. As you know, my first bb gun was the 1894 rifle, Sear’s variant with the octagonal barrel and brass colored receiver. And as you also know, not long after a came here, you did a nice article on it which I greatly appreciate to this day. Yea,… Cowboy stuff was the big thing. The parents have pictures of me and my brother at young age in our cowboy pajama’s. I do not recall watching a bunch of TV in the early 60’s, but apparently there was enough of the cowboy influence around.
Would love to see a re-issue of that exact Sear’s model. Gotta’ have the octagonal barrel and brass colored receiver though. 100$,… sold. Well used ones seem to go for 100-150. Oh well, the 499 is keeping me plenty happy in the meantime.
I can not stress the pure joy of accuracy with the 499 enough,… for those that have never tried one.
Chris
I’m waiting for the Fanner 50 review. I had one of those! Similar power level to this one?
😉
Jerry,
I know what you mean, but have you ever read my Fanner 50 story? 😉
/blog/2009/07/fanner-50-part-2/
B.B.
Should have known!! Thanks, Tom…
B.B.,
Two fine articles filled with tons of humor. Love that cartoon. (Worth a read guys). Both parts. It will take you back to,.. “back in the day,… as a kid.
Chris
Chris,
That is a true story, with some embellishment.
B.B.
B.B.,
Well,.. the paper route, collection day, steel pop cans and scrounging the bushes and ditch’s for pop bottle cash all hit home. Not to mention the comic book, candy and pop “budgeting”. Lucky for me,.. or unlucky depending on the perspective,.. 500 person town, 1 gas station, 1 store and 1 hardware store. Talk about limited spending options. 🙂
Chris,
Was I you in another life??? We had 3,000 in town and two gas stations — one of which sold BB guns.
B.B.
B.B.,
Well,.. tuff to say. What is pretty obvious though is that we were the type to get off our kid butt’s and go out and earn a dollar. Old bikes and mowers were another source of income. Pick ’em out of the curbside trash, fix ’em up and put them back out for sale. Find a day job in the summer too. Helping the old guy at the gas station was always good for a pop and a candy bar and/or a few bucks. He had one leg shorter than the other and you could tell he had been around the block a time or too. I would shimmy up under cars for a quicker oil change or pull a tire (ol’ 4-way style).
Safe enough to say we both had a bit of a work ethic. Growing up with limited income options forces one to be a bit resourceful.
Chris
BB
I must be living life in reverse. Grew up in New York City and now I live on a dirt road in a town? with no gas stations, one general store, one school a PO and fire station and once in a while a restaurant. Lots of peace and quiet and no traffic lights !
Population? Don’t think anyone cares.
Bob M
Bob,
Just make sure you don’t meet Rod Serling in town! 😉
B.B.
BB
I certainly have felt I was in the Twilight Zone at times. Like when you realize you are in a one car rush hour … and you are the one car !
Or the time I returned home after the Harris Ranch wild fire passed through and everyone was still evacuated. A bright moon lit night with a blackened terrain, no power, no people, and no dogs barking. or any sound what so ever. Talk about a surreal situation. Pulled up a lawn chair, popped a cool one and just sat there with my AR and took it all in.
And one I will never forget, driving to work at 4AM on a damp cold totally fogged in morning when all of a sudden I broke through the fog bank going up a mountain. Ultra bright full moon in a crystal clear black starlit sky and all I could see was the silvery white top of the fog bank all around me. A once in a lifetime view. Did not last long before I descended back into the muck like a jet going in through the clouds.
BB,
That’s just like the gun I had as a kid! I really liked it, and I shot a LOT of BBs out of that gun Then it came up missing and I never saw another one like it since. I have wondered what it was and I could never find any info on it, but it looks and functioned just as you described.
Thanks for the review. It reminded me of some good times shooting BB guns with my Grandpa.
CB
CB,
Wow! I didn’t expect that to happen!
Now, you know.
B.B.
B.B.
I bought one of the first models a few years ago. I probably would have liked it more if I got it as a kid (as a kid, my neighbor had a Spittin’ Image 1894 that I wanted BADLY, but my Dad wouldn’t get me one. =( ). As for the model 179, the best I can say is that it looked cooler than it shot. My Dad’s old Tempest can hit the 3/8″ spinner on my indoor 5 meter range. My Pyramydair Crosman 1377 (modified with a steel breech and an 11.5″ .22 caliber barrel) can hit an empty .22 shell at that range. The 179 couldn’t keep all it’s shots on a playing card at 10 feet; hence, I sold it to a collector who wanted it more badly than me. If I had had one as a kid, I likely would have kept it for nostalgic purposes. Thanks for the interesting write up.
take care & God bless,
dave
B.B.,
Long before I ever went BB-gunning with my father, before I had ever even held a BB gun, the Daisy 179 was an object of my desire. Indeed, the Daisy 179 was the first BB gun I was ever aware of and ever wanted to own, probably at the age of six or so.
Michael.
BB
Thanks for the article since It has made me think about Greenie Stick ’em Caps for the first time in over half a century. Those were the days, as the old saying goes.
Halfstep,
Okay, buckeroo! 😉
B.B.
That’s great ,too! Just read your Fanner 50 story and I must join the others who make the Patrick McManus comparisons. Storytelling at it’s best!!
Gunfun1 and Mike, thanks for the advice. I had more or less arrived at the same solution to the double action trigger which was never to quite stop the trigger travel and thus avoid the deadly coefficient of static friction. One way I arrived at this solution was through another problem that was so silly that I never got around to reporting it but seemed based on the same principles. When cleaning a revolver, you have to clean from the muzzle, right? But once the brush goes through the bore and is released from friction, how do you keep it from slamming into the back of the cylinder housing right on top of the firing pin? This doesn’t seem like a good idea. My original plan was to stop right when the brush was about to emerge from the bore into the cylinder housing and then apply the tiniest bit of pressure to push it free without hitting the other side. But try as I might, I kept making an impact. That was my model for stopping the double-action trigger just short of release. Then I found that if you push the brush through at a slow but steady speed, it is much easier to control when it emerges from the barrel. This is analogous to the solution. Still, I wonder if anyone else has had this problem with cleaning revolvers.
I well remember the fascination with cowboys which I must have experienced at the tail end and which would probably not be considered PC today. I had a long-running debate with myself on which comic book cowboy was the fastest: the Rawhide Kid who wore a blue outfit with decorative spots on the front or Kid Colt who always wore a red shirt with a cowskin vest. Judging by the tally of gun duels, I generally came out in favor of the Rawhide Kid. But he was a less developed character than Kid Colt who had a quality of nobility in failure which explains his slightly inferior record. I acted this out with large nickel-plated sixguns which I can see in retrospect were capguns that I never learned to operate. But imagination was enough.
While a technologically simpler medium, the comics were highly creative as I look back. There was a whole series called something like Turok Son of Stone which followed an American Indian and his sidekick who got lost in a prehistoric valley. Their bows and arrows were enough against the dinosaurs. Writing that stuff must have been almost as fun as being an airgun writer.
Matt61
Matt61
Yep exactly what I was talking about with a double action trigger.
And guess what I will get to practice that technique on a new gun pretty soon. Just ordered my Benjamin Wildfire.
When you search it. It still says preorder. But if you click on it and the page comes up it says in stock. Plus just got a PA email advertisement saying the Wildfire is in stock. So maybe they didn’t update the site page yet earlier when I ordered. They might have it fixed now. Haven’t checked again recently.
But I’m excited that I’m finally getting one. Can’t wait to try it out. And going to shoot it open sight even. No scope. Been shooting the Daisy 74’s open sight too. I think that’s the best way to shoot them fast action guns. That’s how we shot our semi auto .22 rimfire as kids. Yep I’m happy right now. 🙂
Noticed that the email advertisement said limited quantities. And now does show back out of stock with a 3/15/17 in stock date.
Checked the status on my order this morning and says received. So now not sure if I’m getting mine now or what. Will have to watch the status and see if it updates at some point in time to ready for shipping.
Hi Matt,
I had the same problem with cleaning revolvers. Alway smacked into the standing breech with my brush/jag/whatever. Now I use a Hoppe’s bore snake for cleaning, and clean from the breech to the muzzle. Problem solved. If the forcing cone gets leaded, I have a tool that scrubs it with brass mesh, also pulling out from the muzzle.
I always thought Wyatt Earp was the fastest, until I read “fast and fancy revolver shooting.”
Mike U
Flintrocker
Maybe some one else was just as quick or maybe faster. That being Doc Holiday. Lucky for them both they were on the same side.
Makes me think of one of my favorite movies. Tombstone. And Val Kilmer nails it playing Doc Holiday. Love his quotes. And his fast action beverage cup handling. Or should I say showing off or putting down his opponent Johnny Ringo in the bar scene.
Here check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhJLaVagwqw
BB,
It is interesting that you call the 179 a catapult gun. I don’t disagree with the designation but there are some different aspects that come into play on the energy going from potential to kinetic in the pistol. On a typical catapult the spring acts on the projectile from the beginning of the trigger pull to the release of the projectile. In this case the hammer takes on kinetic (motion) energy until it hits the projectile and transfers its kinetic energy to the BB. In theory this could be a very efficient system.
If the hammer to projectile transfer of energy was high. Some steel balls on a steel plate can almost bounce back to the same height (very efficient). A good balance for the hammer weight to BB would allow the hammer to transfer all its energy (well most) to the BB. The hammer would stop before hitting the frame. I am thinking the 179 pistol used brute force and the hammer used most of its energy hitting against the frame.
I bet with todays high strength steel, a hammer and projectile could be developed that would require very little effort to cock the hammer and give a good velocity to the steel ball. Look out for the ricochet. Obviously it would not work with lead balls.
Don
Don,
I was wrong about how it works. I will explain everything and show all on Monday.
B.B.
B.B.
Grasshopper will try to be patient. The physics of all the different types of airguns in storing and converting energy into motion is one of my fascinations.
Don
I purchased two daisy pistols at the Texas show that look and function like the one pictured however there
is no model number stamped on either one
Paw,
The model number is not stamped into the gun. It is raised letters along the ejector rod housing. The shiny black paint makes it hard to see, but you can feels it there. Use a magnifier and get into bright light and you will see it.
B.B.
BB
Have you ever tested a Daisy CO2 200 semiauto BB pistol? Yes, they’ve been discontinued for years but when they were up and running and available they were the sweetest shooting CO2 pistol made (in my opinion). To be able to find a functioning one for sale would really make my day.
Reallead,
I have owned a couple, but never formally tested one. Getting one that works today will be a challenge.
B.B.
Off topic. Local lawn shop has a Haenel model one that the salesman cocked and fired for $120. The report was fairly strong. The rifle is a little loose in the stock and one of the screws is boogered. Think this could be worth getting?
Pgray,
Got to “jump in line” here. I am a big supporter of getting a Blue Book. Just looked it up with values and picture. (Get one guy’s) I will let BB weigh in on the value as the Blue Book is sometimes under depending on demand. “Lawn shop” huh? I have checked a few pawn shops, but never a lawn shop. 😉 Gotta’ love that auto spell correct huh?
Pgray,
Oh,…. and I hope he had a pellet in there when he fired it. Firing a springer with no pellet is a HUGE no-no.
Chris U
And I bet somebody is wondering why.
GF1,
Well,.. I thought perhaps Pgray might ask that if he did not know. But, for anyone that does not,.. in short:
A springer (a manually cocked spring piston power plant) needs that pellet in the barrel to create a “cushion” of air so as the piston does not slam into the front of the compression chamber. A shock absorber if you will.
Without a pellet, the spring, piston and perhaps even the cylinder would all be prone to damage due to not having that cushion. The air would simply be pushed out the barrel and the piston would come to an abrupt stop,.. essentially bottoming out. In the mechanical world, that is never a good thing.
Chris U
Yep. 🙂
Pgray,
Not withstanding B.B.’s input, the Blue Book rates the value based on condition given in %. (20,40,60,80 90,95,100 %) Values are 25,40,60,75,90,110,130 respectively. So unless it is really good condition, it sounds a bit over-priced. The buggered screw would raise a flag as well indicating that someone may have worked on it and done who knows what.
Pgray,
I think that one is worth about half what they are asking.
B.B.
Thanks for the input guys. The Pawn shop guy said it was his gun that his grandfather given to him as a boy. He cocked and fired the the gun before I could say don’t do it. I looked for parts to this gun online and decided it was probably beyond my poor skills to be of much help for it.
Seems like an abused sample of a nice little springer. The date stamped on the butt of the stock was 12 32 if I remember correctly. A shame to see the machine in such a state.
Chris I should probably put on my reading glasses and review my posts before sending. Autocorrect tried to make it lawn again this morning.lol
Pgray,
The Blue Book states production from 1925 ~ 1939. So your 32 fits if in-fact that refers to the year. It also list it as a smooth (or) rifled bore. The Apache article just recently was a gun listed the same. It turned out the rifling was there, but quite shallow. Blue Book to the rescue once again! 🙂
BB, Gunfun1 et all.
Re: Daisy 450 at 15 yards
Well, it seems that I jumped the gun a bit on the 15 yd. shooting test. This morning I decided to do the test and right from the start things went wrong.
First the mag wouldn’t hold pellets properly. They jammed just about every shot! Then, as I was taking the mag out, the gun just seemed to disintegrate with loose parts coming out from the rear of the mag well and transfer port area.
I managed to get everything back in place in what I thought was the correct order but the gun still jammed and just didn’t feel right. Also the cocking lever seemed to grind a lot now when cocking the gun. Maybe a broken spring causing all these problems?
I even tried to get the parts out again and see if I could spot where the problem is but with no luck, they just would not release again.
I was becoming more and more frustrated and decided the only place for the gun now was in the junk and spare parts closet. I know some of you will say take it apart and fix it but for a pawn shop gun that I think I paid $7 for and I doubt any spare parts are available it wasn’t worth wasting any more time on it.
I removed the nice Daisy 5899 Peep Sight and found a place for the original peep sight on another gun.
This gun is the only used gun that I have ever bought expecting to use for indoor target shooting and reinforces a decision made a long time ago to stay away from used airguns.
Cheers
Dave
Dave
I’m not familiar with that gun so can’t offer no advice on the problem. But bummer. I was waiting to hear what it would do at the 15 yards.
What gun did you put the sight on?
Hi Gunfun1
I put the original rear Peep sight on an old multipump B5-10. With the stock extended the rear sight was just too close for any kind of accuracy. Replacing it with the Daisy 450 peep sight made it into a perfectly usable gun and only took a few minutes to complete.
Cheers
Dave
Dave
That’s a cool gun. Love the folding wire stock.
Well one gun dies and another lives. Again the B5 is a cool gun.
How well does it shoot?
Gunfun1
When I can hold the darn thing steady enough about 3/8″ at 10 meters on 4 pumps and minute of tin can at 40 yds on 8 pumps. It might do better now the peep sight is mounted.
It’s a nice shooting little carbine but I have to replace seals before next summer – my current project.
Cheers
Dave
Dave
I do believe it would be a gun I would enjoy to shoot.
🙂
Redrafter,
Sorry for your loss. Perhaps a Bugler in the bunch can play a round of “taps” and find a country Parson to say a few words. At least it was an organ donor. Hey, the nice peep was probably worth the 7$. Ya did ok.
On used,… I would feel pretty comfortable given the crowd here. Lot’s of knowledgeable chaps to bounce a thought off of. The Blue Book don’t hurt either.
Hi Chris
It has already become an organ donor – see my reply to Gunfun1.
I try to stay away from used anything though. Others junk is just that and generally the worse for wear. The only other used airgun I own is a Daisy 1894 Western Carbine – made at the Daisy Manufacturing Facility in Preston, Ontario. It’s a collectable model that works. I clean it up and shoot 8 or 10 shots through it once a year then put it back on the wall. I chronyed it a few years ago and it was still shooting about 270fps. The gun is in about the same cosmetic condition as BB’s NRA Centennial Model except the stock (plastic) is in black walnut.
Oh ya, I also have a. 22 Cal. Crosman Mk I that I bought Crosman Refurbished back in the 80’s. It was/is the my main gopher (read Richardson’s Ground Squirrel) gun for over 25 years! Don’t know if that qualifies the pistol as used or not – after all it’s a farm tool(tic). It’s still a flawless performer and a hard workin’ girl every summer.
Cheers
Dave
BB,
bring a slingshooter myself, I can tell you that velocities of 400-500 fps are acievable with a slingshot, using common stew balls and easy to get rubber (such as theraband). You need to taper the bands and either use a fork extension or shoot “albatros style”, with both arms extended.
Mel,
Wow. That’s a lot more than I knew about slingshots. And I assume you are saying this about a catapult, because in some places the sling is called a slingshot, too.
B.B.
I was born in 1960 and had one of these Spittin Image pistols and the 1894 rifle too. I think I got the rifle in 1968, it was my first BB gun. I slipped in the Indiana snow the first year I got it and broke the plastic stock. My dad had me sit down at his desk and write a letter to Daisy and they sent me a new one for free. It was one of the high points of my life… good people and they treated me right.
And yeah that pistol was the only gun ever made that shot slower than the Marksman pistols, ha ha ha.
DR,
🙂 Very similar story. I do not recall breaking it, but not sure whatever happened to it either. Mine was the Sears variant. Brass colored trimming and octagonal barrel. I would love to see it re-issued with a stronger spring and stronger trigger mechanics (for the stronger spring). Tweak it here and there and add a 499 barrel. That would be real winner in my opinion.
I re-sprung a 499, but the trigger mechanics and the latch rod could not withstand the extra pressure. That is why I mentioned the trigger mechanics.
Hi, I know I’m late in getting to this however I have a question about the 179. I purchased a Daisy 179 back in the early eighties, in PA either Oct of 1981 or Oct of 1980. I still have it and was wondering why it has the safety? It is the only one that I ever purchased, did some of them(1960-81) have safety? Would I be able to tell anything from the serial number on the bottom of the gun handle? I’m not interested in selling the gun. Thank you
Crossman,
The history in this report is correct. I have no idea why yours has the safety. As for that ni=umber, unless it says serial number next to it I doubt that’s what it is.
BB
Thank you BB for getting back to me. The number has lot before it and starts with a ‘J’ then the numbers ‘197983’ follow, some of the numbers maybe incorrect as they are very small, will need to check them out better. It is stamped into the metal on the very bottom of the handle between the two plastic grips. Thank you for providing all this information..