by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Diana RWS 34P is a classic breakbarrel spring-piston air rifle.
This report covers:
- George’s rifle
- Are Diana 34s ever not accurate?
- Examining George’s rifle
- It it a scope problem?
- Use open sights
- Condition of the test rifle
- What I plan doing
- What if it’s not accurate?
- What does accurate mean?
Today we start looking at the Diana RWS 34P rifle that reader Geo791 has had trouble with. If I understand his problem, the rifle will not group for him. I think he said the best he could do at 25 yards was 10-shots in a group measuring 1.5 inches between centers of the two widest shots. George, if that’s not accurate, please enlighten us, because we want to know exactly what we are testing here.
George’s rifle
George’s rifle is a .22. He bought it for pest elimination. As I recall, the garden was the primary area of concern and chipmunks were the principal target in the beginning, but squirrels are now on the list too. He bought a .22 because he read that is was better for taking game, which I would absolutely agree with. Not that a Diana 34P in .177 can’t do the job, but in .22 it’s a lot more positive. That’s assuming you can hit what you shoot at, which brings us to the problem I am evaluating.
Are Diana 34s ever not accurate?
Can a Diana 34P be inaccurate? Certainly! I remember back in the very early 1990s when Diana 34s were considered cheap airguns. They retailed for about $120 at a time when a TX200 Mark II (an earlier version of the TX200 Mark III) sold for over $300. At that time they only came with a plain beechwood stock and the metal was finished very matte. They buzzed when they fired like a mason jar full of hornets. The triggers were heavy and their whole shooting experience was generally unpleasant. I owned several of those old Diana 34s and none of them was that good.
Sometime in the late ’90s or even the early part of this century Diana started improving the 34 line. They tightened the tolerances of the powerplant parts to reduce the buzz, and the triggers got much better. When I tested a Diana 34 Panther (they had to change the name to 34P to avoid infringement of another air rifle) back in 2008 I liked it so much I asked Pyramyd AIR if I could hold onto it for an extended period of time. I have used that rifle to do the following:
1. Develop the UTG droop compensating scope base.
2. Test various scopes.
3. Test new tuneup kits from Pyramyd AIR.
4. Test new tuneup kits from Vortek.
My rifle currently has a Vortek kit installed and it is a wonderful breakbarrel. It still shoots over 20 inches low (from where a scope lines up) at 20 yards, but I have a drooper base that fixes it.
Examining George’s rifle
This report is about the rifle Geo791 sent me. I’m not going to give you the specs because you can read them in the product description I have linked to. I will comment on this specific rifle, though.
I’m guessing this rifle is a drooper, because most Diana 34Ps are. I want to find out more about why it doesn’t shoot accurately. I already advised George how to conduct a couple different tests to see what the problem might be.
It it a scope problem?
If the rifle droops and you have adjusted a scope’s reticle as high as it will go (or even into the final quarter of the elevation range), the first thing to do is dial the elevation all the way down. I usually tell folks to dial it down 40-60 clicks, but if you go all the way down it’s fine. Then shoot at a target 20 yards away and leave a lot of paper below the bull so you can see the pellet when it hits. Remember, my 34P shot 20 inches low at 20 yards!
Once you’re on paper, shoot a group of at least 5, but 10 shots are better. Is the group tight? If it is your scope was adjusted so high that the erector tube that contains the crosshairs was “floating” on top of a relaxed return spring. The scope shifted its zero all the time. The solution is to either shim the rear of the scope so it slants downward or use a droop-compensating mount like the one I showed above. Diana breakbarrels are the reason I encouraged Leapers to develop that base.
Use open sights
A simpler way to see whether the scope is the problem is to use the open sights that came on the rifle. One of the things I insist upon on inexpensive air rifles I recommend is they have open sights. Fully half the shooters I meet do not really know how to use a scope, or what to do when it doesn’t work. Open sights are pretty foolproof, though they can be off on some guns — like the BSA Meteor Mark I I recently tested. Diana guns usually get their sights right.
George did both things and had no luck with his rifle. So I offered to look at it for him. Not only am I doing this for him, I’m doing it for all of you who have similar problems with your air rifles. I can’t examine everyone’s rifle, but you can look over my shoulder while I test George’s.
Condition of the test rifle
George’s rifle is stock, from all I can see without taking it apart. The mainspring is bone dry, which is very common with Dianas these days.
He bought it in 2013, so it’s the newest 34P I have examined. It differs from mine in the forearm and pistol grip that have scalloped ridges instead of checkering and the breech that has a deep chamfer my rifle doesn’t have. The stock I like better than mine. The breech helps to deep-seat the pellet so the skirt doesn’t get damaged when the barrel is closed. I wish mine had the same thing.
Both the forearm and pistol grip have scalloped ridges instead of checkering.
Other than those two things, George’s rifle seems very much like mine. It fires with very little vibration, due to the closer tolerances of the powerplant parts. The trigger is a T06 and adjusted quite nice. I feel just a little creep in stage two of the pull, but overall it’s very nice.
What I plan doing
This will start with a standard 3-part review. Today I’m looking at the general rifle. I have to say this rifle appears brand-new! In Part 2 I will test the velocity, and in Part 3 I plan to test the accuracy. I’ll start at 10 meters and then move back to 25 yards in that same report so I can cover more ground. What happens after that depends on what I discover.
If the rifle turns out to be accurate, I will proceed to tune it with a new Diana 34 tuneup kit from Vortek. Vortek donated the kit for this series, so I will show you everything that’s in it. I plan to use the Air Venturi Rail Lock mainspring compressor for this job. This will be the second type of air rifle I have disassembled with the Rail Lock.
After installing the kit I will test the rifle’s velocity again. I will also try to evaluate the difference in the shot cycle, if there is any. I have used Vortek kits on Diana 34s before I I think there will be a dramatic difference in how it feels. I plan also to show you the Diana parts next to the Vortek parts for comparison.
What if it’s not accurate?
If the rifle is not accurate I plan to explore the possible reasons. George pushed pellets through the barrel and gave us a report on those results, and I will do the same. I’ll also examine the crown closely, although I have looked at it and can see nothing wrong.
George also sent me samples of the three pellets he has been shooting. I think these are the three best he has tried (and not the only three he’s tested), though I hope he will address that for us in the comments.
What does accurate mean?
For a Diana 34P I think if I can put 10 pellets into less than one inch at 25 yards with open sights, the rifle should be considered accurate. To see what I’m suggesting, re-read yesterday’s report on the FWB 124.
I think a scope can shrink the group size by a lot, because the 34P has fiberoptic sights, front and rear. I would also like to test this rifle scoped. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. First we have to see what it can do and tune it.
B.B.
What a great idea for a report. I think all will be able to relate to it. When you compare springs, please go into a little metallurgy and really teach us something.
Can’t wait for part 2.
-Yogi
Mr. Gaylord: As a long-time RWS shooter, my first being a 1989 M-36 in .177, I can attest that the 34P I own in .22 is deadly accurate. It accompanies my M-36 and an M-350 Feuerkraft Pro Compact in .22.
It has the RWS genetic defect of severe droop. I had to raise the rear iron sight with three pieces of plastic for an aggregate of approximately an 1/8″! I put a droop mount on the rifle and mounted an RWS (Xisico) scope on it and all is well. Like my elder M-36, recently rebuilt by UMAREX, it shoots dead on in my basement range of 10 meters. Given the depth of my yard from my windows that overlook the garden, that is perfect for defending defenseless vegetables and tomatoes from marauders.
The shot cycle is smoothing out with use. The trigger is superb. My only critique is the cheap printing of the RWS Diana Logo on the top of the flat paint instead of the older pressing into the steel.
I have found with my RWS rifles that the heavier the pellet, the better the accuracy. I also use my venerable Beeman Pellet Seat tool consistently. Accuracy is never a problem except for the nystagmus of the shooter!
LFranke,
Welcome to the blog!
Your comments come at a very good time for me, as tomorrow’s blog will reveal.
The cheap “printing” is done by laser that burns through the black oxide finish. They do it for speed.
B.B.
Looking forward to your evaluation and testing of this Model 34P.
How about a review of Crosman’s “youth” break barrel, the Crosman Raven? It’s been around for some years now, and is rated at I believe, 780-800 fps, and is a springer.
Birdmove,
First of all, how are you doing? I pray fo0r you every day.
As for the Raven, today is a bad day to ask me. I’m knee-deep in airguns, packing the returns since 2012!!! Also found several I never tested but meant to, so my plate is full again.
B.B.
Thank you, Tom, for that! I meet with my urologist in a couple of weeks to get the results of a second MRI scan. This scan is to see if the lupron injections are shrinking the prostate. Had a recent blood test which showed my OSA level has dropped from 5.6 to .6 in a bit over 2 weeks since the lupron injection. Lupron throws side effects, but mine haven’t been too bad. Hot flashes. Supposedly weight gain, but I’ve lost 25+ pounds. My hope is that, eventually the lupron will shrink that prostate enough that I can quit having to use a catheter. If I remove the thing now, my bladder backs up (due to the very enlarged prostate crowing and pushing on it), and I get some serious left lower back pain. On the 20th (I believe it is) when I meet with my Doctor for the MRI results, he is going scope me to see what’s going on in my bladder. My cancer hadn’t spread, with the possible exception of one inoperable lymph node, and he said that these nodes sometimes enlarge for other reasons. Prostate cancer likes to move into one’s bones, lings, etc. My bone scan checked out good.
Especially for those men with prostate cancer in their family history, my Urolgists wants these men to have their doctors, in conjunction with the PSA blood tests, have an old fashioned digital exam also. If I had had the digital exam I believe they would have found my cancer at least a few years sooner if not 10-12 years. Mine could have been caught early opening up more options than I have now.
Thank you for asking, and you must have a sharp memory. I hope to be around for years to see our now six year old grandaughter grow up. I check into this website every day, maybe several times a day, and do searches and read your older stuff too. I can shoot airguns in my backyard any time I want, and I do it a lot. It keeps my mind off my problems, and is a fun hobby for me.
Birdmove,
Thank you for that report. It’s good to hear how you are doing and it sounds like things are going your way.
B.B.
Birdmove,
We’re members of an exclusive club that no one want to join.
Please do not spend time on the “What ifs.” If you think about it, they are always negative. We, my wife and I, spent a week or so in that puddle after I was diagnosed. Mine was an aggressive cancer and a late stage detection,( PSA 22) and had moved outside the prostate. Those conditions led us to surgery as our treatment choice. God was directing us. Our Urologist studied under a wold-class surgeon at Baylor Medical. That surgeon was at Memorial Sloan-Kettering in NY. We contacted the surgeon who immediately referred us to his associate, world-class as well. That was in 2004. PSA today 0.07
More men die with with, rather than of, Prostate Cancer.
There are treatments for an enlarged Prostate as well. A friend had such a procedure recently. Very short procedure time, little to no post-op discomfort. His pain med was Tylonol. And short recovery.
Will pray that the attending problems are resolved so that you can be comfortable and healthy as you deal with the cancer.
Grandpa Dan
B.B.,
Great idea for a post. I’m looking forward to reading your findings.
Any info on the TX airgun show yet? Do you think it’ll be the same place as last year, and is it always the last of August?
Jim M.
Jim,
I have mentioned it several times over the past 3 months. It’s August 26 in the same place as last year — the Arlington Sportsman Club. Here is the website:
http://texasairgunshow.com
This year Pyramyd AIR has donated a $4,000 Air Arms PCP as a raffle prize that some luckybperson will win.
/product/limited-edition-air-arms-rsn70-air-rifle?m=4357
B.B.
B.B.,
I appreciate the info. I’ve been working on a project the past few months that has kept me from reading this site regularly, and usually skimming when I do. FYI – Before asking you, I did check the link in the upper right of this page, and it still says “To be determined”.
I have the date on my calendar. Hoping to break free and make it there again this year..
Thanks!
Jim
Jim,
I will get that fixed. Thanks,
B.B.
B.B.,
On another note, I had a question about something at the TX gun show that I wanted to send via email. I used the “blogger@pyramydair.com” address, but as a backup also sent it to “The Godfather of Airguns” via Facebook messenger. I know you can’t respond to every personal message in addition to fielding questions here, but this was of a more personal nature. I’m just posting here to ask which of those methods works best for you — or is there some other preferred method?
Thank you!
Jim M.
Looking forwards to more of the reports. Thanks again for taking on this project.
Good Day all,… Chris
BB,
This should be a very interesting report. Thank you for taking on this little project. I have considered one of these for some time now and am very interested in how the Vortek kit performs in such.
RR,
I have installed and tested two Vortek kits for the Diana 34 in the past. The last one is still in the 34 I have on long-term loan from Pyramyd AIR. These kits are great! And the one that I received for this report looks better than any I have seen. I like the look of the mainspring in this one. It seems to have a chrome steel spring that I have had a lot of success with over the years.
So we shall see!
B.B.
Very interested in this series.
I have been having almost the identical situation with my Diana 34 (2004 & .22).
Even have the droop compensation base.
Have been considering sending it to PA just to get confirmation whether it is me or the rifle.
Belgrath04,
Well, this series will either confound people in your position more or it will start a run on getting their airguns “fixed,” whatever that means and entails.
B.B.
I’ll take a glimmer of hope that it is not just me.
Belgrath04,
See what I mean? I am rooting for the gun! 😉
B.B.
BB, Glad to see this report, it will be interesting. I don’t own a Diana 34, but my brother does, and my friend Paul B has several, I have shot a few of these for accuracy, and purchased one for a friend, recommending this rifle in .22 to those who inquire about buying an airgun. Everything you say rings true. The newer ones seem very well made. Given that RWS seems to be quite competent in their manufacturing capability, what is the issue with correcting the “droop” that prevents this being resolved? Do they simply consider that it is an open sight rifle?
Jerry,
Diana is a German company. The Germans are not as wedded to scopes as Americans. I talked to the Diana VP of Sales about 10 years ago and she said she didn’t see any problem with the gun. The front and rear sights are both on the barrel, so there is no droop problem. When I tried to explain that Americans wanted to use scopes, she seemed not to understand why.
I think instead of a cultural difference, she was just being a good sales manager — insisting that the product was all that the company wanted it to be. I get that from corporate types all the time.
Diana has changed hands and I note that their latest crop of guns, such as the 340 N-TEC, don’t have the droop problem. I think they are riding guns like the 34 out to the end of their useful production cycles, rather than spend a lot of money changing production for a gun that still sells very well. I can argue against that philosophy just like you, but it does make sense from a bottom line viewpoint.
B.B.
Jerry,
Will you be — or do you plan to be — at the TX airgun show this August?
Jim M.
Hello, Jim,
Yes, I hope to be at the TX show. It’s the same week as the eclipse, and I will have guests here that week – I am in the totality path. Will have a long drive, I guess.
B.B.
I think you need to get all (or most) of your shots on a dime at 25 . We need minute of sparrow accuracy.
tt
TT,
Do you think a sparrow can hide behind a quarter? This is a .22. One inch with open sights will be fine.
B.B.
TT.
We use the same units-of-measure for accuracy 🙂
I do most of my pesting with a scope sighted FWB300 and have no problem making change at 25 yards with it.
Hank
Vana2
I do not consider knocking off feathers or pieces of skin to be acceptable ..I want to get the pellet into the vitals . I want them DEAD .
I need to try my FWB 800 on some sparrows . Kills starlings dead .
tt
TT,
I just reseeded my lawns and have had to keep hordes of sparrows at bay. The 300 is so precise that I usually take head-shots.
I find that within 20-25 yards the 300 has more than enough power for grackles, starlings and squirrels – think that the 800 would do a great job on your pests.
Gotta love the triggers on the FWBs eh?
Hank
Hank
I go for the biggest kill zone on the critter . Then I pick a tiny spot where I want it to go . Better chance of success that way .
Yeah, them FWB triggers ….
Very intricate arrangement of long levers and fine springs on the 800 . 3.5 oz. pull straight out of the box.
I have the Basic field target . 800 fps with 8.4 grain Exacts .
tt
TT,
Biggest KZ – Good approach – I can get a bit cocky with the 300 because it shoots like a laser.
I have been looking at the Basic Field Target 800 myself and purposely not gone to the local FWB dealer (Cibles Targets Canada) to try one. Been thinking about selling my FWB603 and TX200 for one… might be better if I didn’t think about them too much – could be an expensive day-dream 🙂
800fps with 8.44s is a nice place to be – what kinda shot count are you getting on a fill?
Would it be easy to mount a scope on the 800? My eyes are not too comfortable with aperture sights any more.
Hank
Hank
This rifle does not come with target sights . It’s scope only .
You have to watch the scope size to clear the mounting rail with the scope bell.
I turned the flipper around backwards to avoid the windage knob on the scope .
120 shots / fill .
It’s quite heavy and chunky .
tt
Thanks TT,
I web-site that I am looking at lists a number of the 800 models and all the images show aperture sights. Lunch time now so I am going back to read the fine print.
120 shots per fill is great.
My 124 is my walk-about rifle and I hunt with my FX or Weihrauch so I’m not concerned about the weight. I would use an 800 for target shooting and my shooting bench is 20 feet from the basement door 🙂
Appreciate the input TwoTalon… oh, if my wife sees me lusting for another rifle, can I blame you? LOL!
Later,
Hank
Hank
Go ahead and blame me .
Check the PA site for the one I have .
tt
Hank
I got my modded FWB 300 back from Buldawg. It’s deadly accurate. If I miss a sparrow at 50 yards and in I’m surprised. It just don’t miss.
And yes excellent triggers.
GF1,
Was talking to Buldawg and he mentioned that you were focusing on springers and that the 300 was on its way back to you.
Glad the you have her back – don’t know how you would have let her go in the first place. My 124 and 300 are permanent residents – not for sale at any price.
Hank
Hank
Yep learned my lesson.
Won’t never get rid of the 300 or the .22 Tx that I have now or the HW30s.
I know, I know. I said that before. But pretty sure this time. Really. 🙂
GF1,
I know you like your TX – I picked up that .177 TX200 Mark III on a trade last year but I haven’t really warmed up to it.
To be honest, I haven’t shot it much beyond adjusting the trigger and sighting in so I holding judgment until a put a couple of tins through it. Need to find the golden pellet and how the rifle likes to be held.
Nice and calm out this afternoon – will see about an hour ‘s shooting with the TX before supper. 🙂
The rifle was set up for FT with a 12 fpe spring and it was super calm and quiet but
I changed it back to a stock configuration to start. I have a couple of kits that came with the rifle that I can mess around with – can see spending a month just figuring out what is what.
Now, a HW30S sounds like a nice shooter. I keep on looking at them, a 30 or maybe one of its bigger brothers.
Happy Wednesday eh!
Hank
Hank
Let me know how things go with your Tx.
And I had one of the HW30s older brother. The HW50s. I like the HW30s much much better in a bunch of ways.
Will do.
Would be interested in your comparison of the 30 and 50 as it was the 50 that I was thinking about.
Later!
Hank
Hank
The HW30s is easier to cock. Has a very smooth shot cycle. And is lighter. And to me seems to be able to be shot more accurately easier.
I definitely would take the 30 over the 50 but that’s me.
GF1,
I see a HW break-barrel in a plinker role like I use my FWB124 – as a walk-about rifle for casual shooting. Power is not an issue or a requirement as I would be looking for an all-day shooter. Light cocking and smooth shooting cycle rules eh!
I spent some time shooting the TX over the chrony last night. I like the heft of the rifle – feels nice and solid in the hands and the weight makes it good and stable on target. The Rowan trigger is good as well – have it set up the way I like it now. Shooting cycle is smooth (no buzz or anything) with a deep “chug” when it fires – Its got a good recoil for and air rifle 🙂 Noise level is quiet low as my shooting didn’t disturb the three deer feeding 50 feet away – they were curious but not alarmed at all.
Some numbers (factory configuration, – 3 strings per pellet, averaged)…
JSB 7.33 AV 886 ES 28
JSB 8.44 AV 869 ES 11
JSB 10.34 AV 778 ES 15
More fun to be had. 🙂
Hank
Hank
Yep on the HW30s.
And your Tx is shooting a little slower than the .177 Tx I had. But I’ll tell you what this new Tx in .22 caliber is a shooter. I had my trusty ole red dot on it while I was waiting for the scope to get here for it. I was hitting my 1-3/4″ spinner every shot out to 50 yards. Now I know why. Put the scope on yesterday and getting pellet touching clover leaf groups at 50 yards. At 25 yards you can hardly tell there is more than one hole. It’s like a oval shaped hole. So I call that one hole groups at 25 yards.
Very pleased with it.
GF1,
Sounds like you have a winner there!
Now you have me anxious to see how well mine groups. Won’t be until next week if they are right with the forecast – rain and windy all the way to Monday 🙁
Hank
Hank
As much as you shoot. I think that Tx you got will fall right in place. They are a bit different than the FWB 300’s. But they do shoot with just a little little bit of hold and trigger technique.
I say hold technique all the time and fail to say trigger technique too. So figured I better say that from now on.
GF1,
The TX seems to be making a little niche for itself in between the FWB124 and the 300. 🙂
Any hold suggestions (off-hand and benched) would be appreciated.
Hank
Hank
Not really on the hold. The Tx are very forgiving guns to shoot accurately.
I held it all kinds of ways and it just likes to hit.
Twotalon,
Hi! I agree with you 100%. I have knocked the feathers off several sparrows this spring and it really aggravates me to see them fly off. Last week, after removing my scope, I shot at four starlings that were raiding my woodpecker feeder. I killed one but the other three hit the ground and then ran off into the neighbor’s bushes before I could get a second shot. I really hate when that happens.
After B.B. tests and tunes my RSW34, if I am not able to shoot those 1″ groups at 25 yards, then I will definitely be looking at an entry level PCP like the Maximus, Chief, or possibly the Gauntlet. The scatter groups I have been shooting with the RWS34 are not acceptable, period.
Thanks for that tip on a previous post to push a pellet through the bore by hand. That was telling.
Geo
I want the vermin dead on the first shot . Frustrating to wound them . Be sporting….kill ’em on the spot, miss them clean, or don’t shoot .
I push pellets on any rifle now if the design allows it . You find out a lot about a barrel that way .
tt
TT
DOA before they know what hit em is the way I like it.
GF
Somehow, I have never shot a starling with anything big enough to blow it into tiny pieces .
I look at this as a failure on my part .
tt
TT
Explain.
GF
I used to do massive overkill, spreading various critters over a wide area. Somehow, I don’t remember blowing up any starlings . I am so ashamed .
tt
TT
Adequate power and accurate for the purpose is the way I like.
And I imagine you change that outcome pretty easy if you really really wanted too.
A 0.95 inch quarter at 25 yds is 3.6 MOA.
Now, with open sights, that isn’t bad at that distance. My personal benchmark for an accurate rifle would be five shot groups at 2 MOA rested with a scope, and that would be 0.52 inches, smaller than a 0.70 inch dime at that distance. And for me, the groups out to 25 (or better 35) are what I care about – but they MOA can be translated for distance. This calculator can deal with various units of measure, too.
http://www.indecorous.com/bullseye/moacalc.html
B.B.
My favorite type of blog – the Who Done It Mystery. Can hardly wait for the next part to see what happens!
To the comment “what does accurate mean” I have a question…
In the airgun world, what is the definition of a “Tack Driver”?
I tend to be literal and think that a “tack driver” has the ability to hit one of those 1/4″ diameter push-pins as you rarely see the old steel tacks any more.
I know that those push-pins take a beating when I get bored punching paper 🙂
Hank
Hank,
Yes, I would agree that a tack-driver is more accurate than the level of accuracy I have described for this test.
My AR-15 is a tack-driver. I have put 10 shots into 0.375-inches at 100 yards. Now, I only did that a few times. A half-inch group is far more common. But that would be my definition of a tack-driver.
B.B.
BB
The AR-15 sounds to be an awesome rifle!
Are 1/2″ groups typical for an AR-15 or is yours a specially tuned exceptional one shooting custom loads?
I guess that a proper description of a tack-driver requires the inclusion of the range it will consistently deliver 1/2″ (or less) inch groups.
I have always determined my maximum effective (accuracy) range by how far away I can consistently shoot dime-size groups.
As TwoTalon says – minute-of-a-sparrow accuracy 🙂
Cheers!
Hank
I agree that 10 shots into 1/2″ at 100 yards qualifies as a tack driver–especially for an AR-15, which are not typically that accurate. Usually you need to spend a fair amount of coin on a quality after market barrel and maybe perform a couple of other less expensive customizations, but nothing like what you’d typically have to do to an M1 Garand or M14/M1A to get sub-MOA accuracy!
Tom ,
Biggest thing with the 34 is vibration. This is a big killer of accuracy. Grease the spring and guide this will help allot, We see this on installs allot and it fixes most of them. The new Vortek kits are great, the rifle will just go thud when fired !!
Gene,
Welcome to the blog!
This one is relatively smooth, but my experience is the Vortek kits make them smoother.
B.B.
B.B.
Regardless of the results, this blog, as far as information goes, could be your best one yet. Great idea!
Ken
Semi-off topic, but related to air rifle performance:
Can anyone tell me the best way to apply Tune-in-a-Tube to side-levers (Diana 48/52) and under-levers (Walther LGU)? By that, I mean specifically where do you squirt it into the rifle? I have applied it on my HW50, and besides being readily apparent as to where I should put the TIAT, it made a noticeable difference.
I am not much of a “tinkerer”. I don’t have much extra time for that, and it’s not really my nature. Although, every now and then I’ll take on a small project if I feel confident it can be completed within about an hour.
Thanks in advance!
Jim M.
B.B.
To refresh, the intended purpose for this rifle is to dispatch sparrows from my bluebird nesting boxes along my property line out back which is 25-30 yards from my back sliding door. I don’t shoot the chippies or the squirrels. My wife would freak out if did that. I am not allowed to even shoot the flower eating rabbits. They are so cute you know. So, my goal for the RWS34 has always been to shoot 1″ or less groups at 25 yards…consistently.
Next, my RWS34 came with a Hawke 3-9x50AO IR scope with a RWS droop comensating mount with integrated rings. I measured the mount and the front end is 0.8mm lower than the back. It has the set screw stop pin also.
Also, when I first received the rifle I removed the stock and place (6) drops of RWS spring oil on the coils as per the manual instructions. Oiled the joints as well, and two drops of RWS silcone chamber oil in the port.
Pellets & Groups: (10) Shot Groups at 25 yards & some (5) shot groups at 25 yards
• H&N FTT 14.66gr .555mm = 1.13”, 1.28”, 1.50”
• H&N FTT 14.66gr .554mm = .65”, 1.54”
• H&N FTT 14.66gr 5.53mm = 1.18″, 2.49″
• H&N FTT 14.66gr 5.52mm = 0.63”, 1.18”, 1.53”, 2.49” (several flyers)
• JSB RS 13.43gr = 0.90”, 1.7”, 2.2”, 2.5”
• JSB Exact Jumbo Express 14.35gr = .31”, .86”, 1.28”, 1.32”
• JSB Match Exact Jumbo 15.89gr = .45”, .52”, 1.01”, 2.1”
• CPHP 14.3gr = 0.7”, 1.3”, 1.2”, 1.5”, 1.1”, 1.03” (at least 1-2 flyers 2”-3” out in each group)
• RWS Superdome 14.5gr = 0.71”, 1.0”, 1.25”, 1.63”
• RWS Super –H- 14.2gr = .55”, 1.82”
As you can see, I had a lot of mixed results with most groups having some flyers which I excluded from the measurements. Several of these groups were before cleaning with JB Bore paste. The groups I shot subsequent to the barrel cleaning were not improved…maybe a little worse even. Didn’t even measure groups until I had shot fifty plus shots after cleaning the barrel.
I shot some groups after removing the scope to send the rifle to B.B. With the fiber optics on the open sights I was not able to see the target well…even at 15 yards. The groups were so bad I didn’t even record them. I had some starlings raiding my bird feeders. I shot at four and winged three of them. That makes me angry as I want to make clean kills. Looking forward to part II.
Geo
Geo,
That’s what I needed to know.
Thanks,
B.B.
No problem…if you have any other questions, I’ll be watching the blog closely.
Geo,
Thanks for the recap. I could not remember for sure what you were getting. B.B. eluded to 1 1/2″ at the top and your rifle is certainly capable,.. just not all of the time. When I first started out with the TX200, I kept (very good) records. Even kept the targets. Still have them. Lots of them. All in a notebook. Just now looking back over the “data summary sheet”,.. 1″ seems to be (my) average at 25. Some days worse, some days better. Given the summary above,.. I would not be surprised to see B.B. do 1″ or better. Who knows?,… I do not. I shot the TX, the LGU and the Maximus Sunday and the Maximus won out and the LGU 2nd. and the TX last. (all .22) Not by far mind you,.. but I did not need to measure the 10 shot groups either.
In the end, after several years,.. I came to the conclusion that I did not have the time ( or dedication? ) to getting my springers shooting any better. Hence,.. giving the PCP’s a go.
Thank you for following through with B.B.’s offer. We should all learn something.
Chris
Thanks for the comment. Yes, the RWS 34P does surprise me occasionally with a 1″ or less group but that’s the exception rather than the rule. I thought at one point that I had discovered the best of the best pellet for my rifle which was the JSB 15.89gr. I shot a (10) shot group at .52″ and another at 1.01″. I was happy but then a few days later I shot some more groups with one group .45″ and another in the same session at 2.10″. The JSB 14.35gr showed a lot of promise too. In one session shooting (5) groups, I shot a .31″ group with one large hole. Then in the same session the group opened up to 1.32″. The groups are so sporadic that I am totally baffled.
Your last comment seems to fit my situation too. After several years of hit and miss, I don’t think I have the patience any longer to learn the techniques of shooting break-barrel springers accurately either. Depending on the results B.B. gets, I am leaning more and more to the dark side of a PCP so I can just load, shoot, and be able to call my shots. It has been a real learning experience thus far. I wish I knew then what I know now.
Geo
Next step will be to get a PCP and see what happens. See if similar results happen.
Now that will be interesting to see.
GF1
If I thought there was a possibility that I would not be able to shoot good groups with a PCP, there would be no reason whatsoever of me even considering that purchase. I am tenacious and persistent and depending on Tom’s findings, I will make a decision at that time to continue with my endeavor to shoot the RWS 34P, or move on to a PCP. We still have not determined if the issue is with me, or the rifle. Tom’s thinking that is that the problem could be with my using an inconsistent hold. We shall see.
Geo
Still yet with a PCP you don’t just plop it down on a table and shoot. You still need to develop a technique in your hold.
You’ll see what I mean if you ever get a PCP.
Geo,
I made a similar comment the other day. Mine went,.. “I (might) have done things differently, knowing what I know now”. I say “might”,.. because the lure of fine springers probably would have “bitten” me sooner or later anyways. Just getting back into air guns,.. from really never having anything to speak of,.. PCP’s were a rather large leap of faith to go for straight out of the gate. Not to mention the cost. I was pretty sure that I did not want to hand pump. Rather,… just fill and enjoy. That desire comes with (added) cost though.
What would I do now,.. knowing what I know now? I would have to give that a lot of serious thought.
Fishing? A new pole and reel? A big stout one with roller tip? Wait a minute!!!,… been there, done that. That was a learning experience as well. Not without substantial cost and time. Regrets?,.. no. Would I have done things differently? Maybe. Anyone else seeing a pattern here? 😉
Hobbies are hobbies. Like many things,.. you will learn and progress and fumble along the way. Like many things too,.. there is often no limit to the amount of money to be spent if one is so inclined. I suppose the big takeaway from all of this is to keep things in perspective and try to remember to enjoy the process along the way.
Chris
I know that this is a hobby for most of the posters on this blog. It’s not a hobby for me. I live in a area where neighbors are too close to shoot firearms. I bought the RWS 34P for the sole purpose of protecting my bluebirds from the sparrows. The target shooting initially was to adjust my Hawke scope and check for trajectory. That’s when I discovered that I could not shoot the desired groups of 1″ at 25 yards. I was missing a lot of sparrows and wanted to know the reason. And so the process goes on… I’m not going to invest hundreds of dollars into airguns to accomplish this purpose…oh wait…I already have!
Geo,
I get it,… you are serious. On a mission so to speak. You have a specific goal/task in mind. Your dedication, record keeping and 3 years of persistence more than proves that. Hopefully we will have a workable solution at the end of all of this. Fingers crossed! 😉
Geo,
I have been reading your messages and I think I see a pattern. Your rifle seems to be accurate. But something seems to affect how accurate it is. The most likely thing is you. I am now wondering if you are shooting with an inconsistent hold. That’s what your comments seem to be saying.
This helps me plan my testing. I can take one of the pellets that has given you good results, like the 15.89-grain JSB, and I should be able to shoot repeated groups that are good. They won’t all be the same, but, if I can control my hold well enough, they should all be good.
Since I shoot 10-shot groups, this will take some time. I can’t hold my concentration for more than about 60 shots with a rifle of the power of your Diana. But 10-shot groups are very powerful for finding things that are subtle, like the inconsistency you are experiencing. In a 10-shot group such inconsistency would look like 6 shots in a tight group with 4 shots scattered around. A five-shot group of the same pellets might all be inside the tight group.
Just thinking out loud.
B.B.
All I can say about the hold is, I studied your artillery hold and tried to emulate it as much as possible. I did have to shift my off hand a little further towards the muzzle. When I tried to place my off hand back touching the trigger guard the balance was very muzzle heavy and I had trouble holding my POA on target. I moved my off hand forward and used my index finger to feel the notch in the cocking slot where it widens slightly. I tried my best to use a consistent hold…maybe that’s something I’m just not able to do. After attempting to do this for three years…I have basically run out of ideas on the hold.
BTW, the pellets I sent you were the only ones I had on hand at the time. I couldn’t say that those necessary gave the very best groups but they were better than others. The JSBs I sent have a smaller head size than specified. I measured them to be 5.49mm and the tin labeled them 5.52mm. I tried some of those last summer that I bought on ebay from precisionair as (25) pc samples and I don’t recall that those feel out of the breech when I de-cocked the rifle. Some of the other pellets fall out too though. Something is just not right somewhere. I’m sure you will sort this all out and everyone will benefit from your findings.
Geo
You know there is something else I just thought of that I can’t remember if anyone said. And what I’m going to mention can make your group size bigger.
Do you measure your groups from the center of the pellet hole to the center of pellet hole? Or do you measure from outside the hole diameter to the outside of hole diameter.
If you measure center to center that gives a smaller group size and that is the way most people measure group sizes.
If you measure outside diameter to out side diameter of the hole that will give bigger group sizes. As I said most people measure the other way. Center to center.
And I know you got some flyers in the group’s. But I would eliminate the one or two flyers and then measure your group center to center. Just a thought figured I would say so we know how your measuring.
GF1
Yes, I measure to the outside of the group and subtract one pellet diameter to get the CTC size. I have thrown out what appear to be flyers from my group measurements. Most of the pellet samples did have a few flyers, but the CPHPs always had two or three flyers in each ten shot group. Thanks for asking that question though because other posters may have wondered about my group measurements too. Also, I used dial calipers to do the measurements.
Geo
Ok it slipped my mind for some reason. Wasn’t sure so figured better ask.
Hey guys, I need some info on the new Air Hawk Elite 2, can’t find any reviews, and very little info, if anybody has this rifle I would like to know what you think about the nitrogen piston, and the gun as a whole, I went out and bought one on impulse, but I live in the city and haven’t yet had a chance to take it out and plink around, so if somebody has any knowledge with this rifle “good or bad” would help, thank!!
PelletNoob,
Welcome to the blog.
Not an air rifle I am familiar with. Can anyone help him?
B.B.
Thanks Bud, I was originally wanting the Ruger Air Hawk, or Air Hawk Elite, but the only one they had in stock was the Ruger Air Hawk Elite 2, and was just wondering how fundamentaly different this platform is from the Hawk and Hawk Elite, but can’t find anything about this rifle, no blog’s, reviews, and very little info, feels like a pretty solid rifle, I’m just hoping it was worth the money, and not a total piece of junk to shoot lol!!
I guess the main difference between the air hawk elite and elite 2, is the elite uses spring piston, and the elite 2 uses the new TNT turbo nitrogen technology, will see how it shoots in a few days!!
And sorry guys, I know this is not the forum for this rifle, but I just posted in the most recently used forum I could find, sorry for all the noon questions, but this is the first time I’ve been in a forum and I’m very very noob SO BE GENTLE LOL!!
PelletNoob,
No need to apologize for “not the forum for this rifle” or anything like that. Nothing could further from the truth in fact. If you look at the comment section of most any given article,.. you will see the comments vary on a wide range of topics. Shooting related for the most part, but sometimes not. I was new here about 3 years ago and find that I rarely need to look any further than right here. If you are new/new again to air guns,.. you will most likely have scope/sighting/accuracy questions. I can assure you,.. anything you can ask can be answered here. Reader’s are real good about posting links to other sites, etc. to help a person out too.
Be sure to look at the Categories section on the right of the page. Pick a topic of interest and all sorts of past articles will pop up. Much to be learned. Much good info. too in the comments section below the article.
((Be sure to let us know how your new gun does.)) In general/most always, post on the (newest) blog. It does not matter if it is not related to what you are asking/commenting on.
Looking forward to seeing you in the comment section in the future. Chris
Be sure to look through the
Ignore that last line.
Pellet Noob,
Here is a Ruger with gas piston that make the same FPS as the spring piston Air Hawk that you have. These rifles often have the same “guts”,.. just different stocks, sights, etc.. The comments may give you some idea of what to expect from yours.
/product/ruger-yukon-air-rifle-combo-gas-piston?m=3102
Chris USA,
Thanks for info and link, I wonder how mine will stack up to the regular hawk and hawk elite, I didn’t even know they had come out with my Elite 2,
I really like the look of that Yukon in the link,
I hope I didn’t make a bad decision on getting a Gas Piston AR over the tried and true Springer’s, but from what I’ve read there are quite a few advantage’s with a Gas powerhouse, but I read if they take a crap its hard if not impossible to get a replacement powerhouse, so let’s hope I got one I’ll be able to enjoy for years to come, and I’ve got a little money saved up for something a little more high end, what would you recomend for around $300 , I don’t want a fancy bells and whistle rifle I just want a solid decent high end AR that’ll shoot right for a long time!!
PelletNoob,
Go to ((today’s)) blog and ask that very question. It is a weekend blog and should get a lot of answers. 3 days. I personally have a MK III and LGU in .22 (springers) and a .25 M-Rod and a .22 Maximus (PCP’s).
A suggestion,… do a quick recap,.. i.e. ” I posted on the 6/13 blog as a new member, etc., etc,… and I was wondering what anyone would suggest for $300″. Describe what you want and what you want it for, etc,…. and then,…. hang on! 😉
See you on the current (6/16) blog down in the comment section. Chris 🙂
Clarification,… I know that you do (not) have a spring a piston. P.A. had one, a Air Hawk, a spring piston and I looked at the FPS and found a similar Ruger in gas piston that had near the same FPS. Sorry for any confusion.
Thanks Chris,
The rifles box claims 1200 with alloy, and 1000 with lead, and I guess these new Air Hawk Elite 2’s have a TNT turbo nitrogen tech, instead of a spring, and they dont have a wood stock option like the regular hawks and elite hawk, its only synthetic, I put a crosman premier 7.9 destroyer in it, and tested the depth on a Tulsa phone book “about an inch and a quarter thick” but I forgot about the dieseling with brand new rifles and it blew right through the phone book and just into the drywall at about 6 feet away, but it also comes with a nucleus rail system for the scope which I know will have horrible rings but I’m really wanting to get out and do some basic testing with this rifle and see how it performs, as I have yet to see any of the normal stats on it from the feild , but thanks for replying I’m new to forums and just getting back into the hobby of Air Rifles since being a young kid with one in my hands everywhere I went lol, I can tell there’s gonna be a wealth of knowledge here, thanx!!
PelletNoob,
Welcome to the blog. Please bring your conversation to the latest blog entry. That way everybody can read it. As is only B.B. and those that have chosen to have an RSS feed of the blog can read your journey back to airguns.
Besides it’s the weekend when the topics discussed can veer far from the current topic.
Siraniko
Thanx, and I shall do that, I might need a little help learning how to navigate feeds and the latest blogs, so if you could tell me how to get to the latest blog I’ll be more than happy to chat and learn with everybody!
PelletNoob,
To get to the latest blog entry go to the top of the page and click Home. That brings you to the latest blog entry. Go to the Comments Section and post away.
Siraniko
Awesome, much thanks Siraniko,
PelletNoob,
Just click on the link I provided above,.. and (scroll down) to customer reviews and click on that. There are 33 reviews. If it is the same barrel/same gas piston/same trigger,… that should give you a pretty solid idea of what to expect from yours.
I thought that I had linked the comment page, but it loads up as the product page.
PelletNoob,
No one will criticize you here. If they do, they get banned from the site. I have well over 100,000 users and over the years I have banned less than 10 people.
Just tell us what’s wrong and we are here to help.
B.B.
Thanx BB,
I can already tell there will be a wealth of info on here, I really appreciate the quick responses, and looking forward to learning much about this hobby, thanx
One of the good things about the blog is that it’s Diana heavy. They are very nearly a sleeper brand in the UK these days but still have their hard-core fans.
I have an ’88 34 in .22 with the T01 trigger. While it is a rather utilitarian design it is well made and shoots well. The .22 34 at sub 12fpe has a nice, understressed feel to it. Not lazy like a UK spec HW80 but not busy either. I have its little brother D280 as well (amongst others) and it’s interesting to shoot the these two Diana’s back to back. The 280 reminds me of the old Model 35, so not a poor relation.
Keep busy with those Diana’s, Tom.
I just got a new RWS 350 Magnum in .177 and I am in love with it. Put a cheap Crosman Center Point 6-20X50 scope on it with my RWS lock down mount. They have a droop compensator built in and two screws that go down into holes in the top of the rifle and I have never had a problem with them moving. I have one on my RWS Diana 350 .22 too and it has been on there for three years without moving with lots and lots and lots of shooting with pellets as heavy as the 25 grain JSB Ultra Shock hollow points.
Anyway I shot it 30 times right out of the box with the iron sights at 20 yards and got one big jagged hole about 3/4″ wide. I mounted the scope and put ten shots in about 3/4″ of and inch at 30 yards dialed in right above the bullseye. Moved back to 40 yards and shot it 10 times and it was a 7/8″ group right above the bullseye again. Moved to 50 yards and the gun shot exactly an inch group just barely above the bull. I was absolutely dumbfounded how flat the gun shot… and this was using the Crosman Premier Domed 10.5 grain pellets from a cardboard box that comes with 1250. That was probably the best group I have ever shot with a pellet rifle at 50 yards, I’m not exactly Annie Oakley.
The gun was sitting on a bag of play sand right in front of the trigger guard at all times. Airguns of Arizona had this rifle on sale for $199 last week and even though I already had a 25 year old .177 Model 34 and a 2015 RWS 350 in .22 I couldn’t pass it up. Man am I glad I didn’t. Maybe to other people this is inaccurate but for me it was outstanding. The .22 RWS 350 has never been this accurate and when I bought it I couldn’t shoot a 2″ group at 40 yards, half the time not even at 30. Even after thousands of shots it practically jumped out of my hands so I had someone put a Vortek spring and seals in it, and even though it is much smoother it still isn’t as accurate as this new gun straight out of the box. I’m in love.