Collecting airguns: Modifications and refinishing 5

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Scarcity Part 1
Condition Part 2
What is collecting? Part 3
Collecting airguns: Fakes and counterfeits Part 4

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • Hypothetical
  • It’s a Tucker!
  • Dig in or knuckle under?
  • What about it?
  • However…
  • Specifically
  • When not to modify
  • What about an FWB 124?
  • Controversy
  • The end

Today’s topic will be controversial. Many of you will feel that this isn’t any of my business. If you own something you have the right to do anything to it that you like — including destroying it. I would agree with you on that. If it’s yours, it’s yours to do with as you like. But it isn’t that simple. If it was, there would be nothing to say.

Hypothetical

Let’s say you have inherited a vintage car from your favorite rich uncle. It was made in 1948, and it has some lines that you think are cool, but others that you don’t care for. You want to do extensive bodywork and also to lower the suspension several inches.

The engine needs a rebuild, too, and it’s not a common engine. A local shop estimated it will cost $50,000, just to rebuild it! That’s because they say they will have to make many of the parts. You don’t want to do that, so you have decided to install a modern engine of a type to be determined later. The engine in the car right now is a massive 589 cubic inch flat 6.

It’s a Tucker!

Oh, and one more thing. Your car is a Tucker Torpedo. That is a rare car with only 51 made in 1948 and just 47 remaining today. The last one to sell publicly went for a hair under three million dollars at a Barret-Jackson auction in 2012. Ah — but that was for a run-of-the-mill Tucker — if such a thing exists. Your car is one of just five that were built with this extra-large engine. There’s no telling how much it’s worth.

Tucker Torpedo
A 1948 Tucker Torpedo.

Now — what do you think about modifying the car?

Dig in or knuckle under?

This is where the curmudgeons will dig in their heels and swear that if they owned the car they would do whatever they wanted. They would dare the world to tell them they are wrong. Yes, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel could use a second coat of paint! And, while you’re are it, the water in the public bath is getting cool. Throw another pile of those ancient manuscripts from the Library of Alexandria on the fire!

Many of us, however, would have to admit that if we owned something this rare it would be our duty to conserve and preserve it for future generations.

What about it?

But really, what about modifying or even just restoring a vintage airgun to its original glory. What’s wrong with that? Depending on the airgun — nothing — or everything. Let’s get specific.

You want to restore your old Crosman 101 multi-pump pneumatic. The metal parts are all painted, so who’s to say they aren’t original when you finish? And what if they aren’t? Crosman 101s abound. Guns in shooting condition sell for as little at $100. Nice ones can go for $200. This is not an airgun you can mess up.

Crosman 101
A Crosman 101 is not so rare that a good refinish won’t improve it.

In fact, a refinish done well will increase the value of an airgun like this. It can take a beater $80 gun (one that doesn’t hold and has a poor finish) to the $200 mark.

However…

But, you might want to stop and think before you pay another $300 to have a custom Tyrolean buttstock carved for your 101 that’s just been resealed and refinished. It won’t add a penny to the value and it puts you $300 upside-down in the gun. At the very least keep the original stock and don’t modify the rifle in any way that prevents it from being reattached.

If you just want it that way, that’s your business. However, don’t suppose other folks will feel the same. I have seen rifle stocks carved from extremely expensive wood that looked good enough to eat. But they were shaped like electric guitars and put off a large part of the shooting public. Do something like this only if it’s what you want, because you may meet with resistance when sales time comes.

Specifically

Let me get specific. I once owned a Falke 90 air rifle — a rare gun of which fewer than 200 were supposed to have been made in the 1950s. My gun was not working when I got it and was in NRA Horrible condition. A blog reader named Vince got it working again, and then I sent it to a stockmaker to have the damaged stock restored. He did a beautiful job, in my opinion. You can read about it here.

That was a partial restoration — the wood but not the metal. Was it “worth it?” Well, before the work was done, the airgun didn’t work and was ugly to look at. After it was refinished, it shot well and looked okay. Fewer than one-sixth as many of this air rifle were made as Colt Walker revolvers (200 to 1,500). Yet the Falke 90 is not well known today. You have to give the potential buyer a history lesson on the company before there’s any interest. The Colt Walker is well known.

Refinishing a Colt Walker is an absolute no-no, no matter how far gone it is. That gun is a piece of history, as we learned in Part 1 of this report. Refinishing a Falke 90? You would be lucky to find anyone who even knows what it is, let alone someone who’s interested in the original finish. Sure, if it’s a nice gun to begin with, don’t refinish it. But a dog like mine can be made to bark another day with little risk. I lost money when I sold that rifle at the 2016 Texas Airgun Show, but when you consider all the blogs I got to write and the feature article I wrote for Shotgun News, for which I was paid, the “loss” wasn’t that hard to suffer. And the buyer got a great deal.

When not to modify

You have a Feinwerkbau 300, but the stock is too short for you. For some strange reason the pull of your rifle is only a little over 11 inches. You decide that a 3-inch piece of wood can be added to bring the pull out to where you want it. It’s your air rifle — what’s to stop you?

Unfortunately, nothing. What you have ia a rare FWB 300 Mini, and you are about to wreck it to create an FWB 300S that is worth several hundred dollars less. There are lots of FWB 300S rifles for sale. Find a Mini! Oh, and yours is also left-handed. Poor you! You can sell that rifle and buy a pristine right-hand FWB 300S that’s like new in the box, and it’s just been resealed. With the money left over you can buy another fine airgun.

But hack up that Mini stock and you have lost hundreds of dollars. A left-handed FWB 300 Mini is both rare and desirable — not only as a collectible, but as a shooter. It’s not that old — maybe 20 years or so. But it’s something that was never made in quantity and also something that shooters today will treasure.

What about an FWB 124?

Few spring-piston airguns have been modified/customized as often as the venerable FWB 124. Shooters love the light cocking and smooth action (if tuned) the 124 offers, and so they modify it left and right. I remember a time 15 years ago when the 124 was just taken off the market, you could buy factory stocks for a song. Everybody was taking them off and installing their version of an airgunner’s dream. Only one of those replacements has any value that’s guaranteed. That was an outsized stock made by Air Rifle Headquarters (the original ARH — not the company that’s doing business today) in the early 1970s.

People criticized the long cocking slot of the 124 factory stock because it allowed the rifle to buzz when fired. ARH had a custom stock made that was several inches deeper in the forearm. The cocking link was entirely contained inside the forearm, so no slot had to be cut. It looks outlandish when you see it, but it’s also so rare that I have only seen one. There probably aren’t 50 in existence, and that’s just a guess. I say that because the 124 was already an expensive airgun in the 1970s ($144.50 in 1973) and this stock added 90 dollars to that price. It was called the FWB 120 Custom when the pistol grip was checkered.

FWB 120 Custom
FWB 120 Custom from the old Air Rifle Headquarters is a rare bird! The forearm is inches deeper than the one on a standard rifle so there doesn’t need to be a cocking slot — everything is contained inside the large forearm! Sorry for the poor photo. it was taken from an old ARH catalog.

If your custom stock isn’t that one, it needs to be a classic design if you want the rifle to have value. And, don’t throw the factory stock away !

Controversy

Today’s report is a controversial one, because it touches on taste, which is very personal by definition. If your collecting is just so you can have what you want, then most of what I have said about the money side is meaningless. Just promise me you won’t customize any Tucker Torpedoes or refinish any Colt Walkers.

But if you collect with an eye towards reselling at some point, my arguments should be considered. I am the type of collector who never had enough money to buy everything he wanted, so I worked my way through things as I could. I had to consider the money side all the time.

The end

I know I haven’t touched on everything in collecting, but most of the major topics have been addressed. Unless there is something you feel I’ve left out, this will be the end of this topic.

125 thoughts on “Collecting airguns: Modifications and refinishing 5

  1. Old cars, strait razors, coins, air guns, and any other collectabe – the first thing is the education. Learn everything that you can first. Invest in your library.

    BTW, what to do with a $3 million car from rich uncle – no problem, no question. SOLD

    Jim



  2. B.B.

    Boy your comments about mucking up antiquities really hit home! I was considering getting an older LGV, or Diana 75, 300S, HW 55; for 10 m indoor shooting. Instead I bought a new HW 50, tuned, custom stock, short stroked; made it into just what I wanted. I am sure I spend much more than any of the aforementioned, and I left them alone for somebody else to enjoy.

    All the REALLY collectable cars are worth a lot more money with low mileage. What is the fun in that?

    -Y


    • This spring I bought a 2003 Mustang Cobra from my son, he bought it new in 03. He drove it some the first couple years, after that, it spent most of the time in the garage. It has just over 5000 miles on it. The color is Sonic Blue, available on the Cobra only in 03. It will get some more miles on it but not a lot. It was just too nice a car to send down the road. Also, he can get it back some day if he wants. BUT, if I go first, he will have to BUY it from his mother! 🙂

      Mike


    • Yogi,

      I can’t vouch for the accuracy of this, but years ago I read somewhere that among high-end car collectors Ferrari collectors are known for believing a vintage Ferrari must be driven and enjoyed. As a result, higher mileage vintage Ferraris lose less value than do Maseratis, Lamborghinis, etc.

      Anyway, that’s how I remember it.

      Michael


      • Michael,

        All the $$$$$ supercars made in the last 20 years are worth MUCH more with super low miles.
        The older ones with good provenounce,they can totally rebuild for wear and tear, unless it is the one in 10 million.

        -Y


        • Yogi,

          You should read my post below regarding the brand new 30 year old (now 50 year old) Corvette.

          I believe you about mileage and supercars, including Ferraris. I had simply read that (and this is probably no longer true if it ever was) an owner of a Dino would put 3 or 4 thousand miles (no, kilometers!) on it each year and feel no guilt whatsoever.

          Michael


          • Michael,

            My understanding is that there is problem with the Dino engine and it will need to be rebuilt anyway ever so often. The “F” word always has and probably always will demand a huge premium. But an Enzo with 1,000 miles> is probably worth 2-3 million more than one with 20,000+.

            Friend of a Friend story;
            bought a 2year old Ferrari FF for 2/3 of original. Car had less than 12k on the clock.


  3. For a long time I regretted not getting a Boss or Mach1, not to mention a Shelby, when I got my plane Jane 69 Mustangs, a fast back and a hardtop, but now I can do resto-mods without any guilt of destroying a classic. Some sort of compensation I guess.
    I enjoy seeking out and collecting todays airguns that I believe will become limited production items. Not so much for monetary gain or even desirability, but just because they may be relatively unobtainable at some point. For example the Evanix Carbine Version AR6 and Speed or the gloss black finished and brass Wells Fargo versions of the Walther lever actions. And one of my favorites, the Webley Alecto Ultra. Needless to say limited editions are a given. Classics seem to stick around for a while and can be had for a price but then most everything can eventually be had for a price.
    Enjoyed the blog topic.
    No chance of going to the Texas show for me. Already had a 200 acre “Eclipse” fire here in the Campo area and I’m very busy caring for my ex while she recovers from months of hospital care for Pancreatic problems. Hope the weather works out for everyone going. Looking forward to blog coverage.
    Bob M


  4. BB,

    I have seen many air rifles for sale that have been tuned and/or modified that the owner is expecting the perspective buyer to cover the cost of such. To me, that is like expecting me to pay for all of the oil changes, tires, brake pads, etc. when I buy a used car. Maybe you really like those spoked rims and hot pink paint job, but that does not mean I do.

    As for refinishing/modifying collectables, one must be prepared to not have a financial return on your investment. I myself almost modified a FWB 300S for my personal taste and I may still if I find another deal on a beater, but I know once I modify it the marketable value is gone.

    Yogi chose to modify a new air rifle into what he wanted. He knows he will not likely gain by his financial investment, but his personal satisfaction factor far exceeds his financial losses. I have to agree with him that leaving a car parked in a garage and not driving it is no fun. My 1906 BSA comes down off of the wall quite frequently.

    Enough of my ramblings.



  5. Is anyone having trouble viewing the images attached to our comments? Yesterday afternoon I was able to see Codueces photo of his fire pit. Today I can’t see that photo or the comment that I left complimenting him on it. Also I am unable to see the photos that GunFun1 posted of his targets after oiling his 3 guns. Any help?



  6. Sometimes a persons collection or at least items within it transcend normal collecting. Think Robert Peterson who’s firearm collection contained items with such historical significance and importance that their monetary value becomes secondary. In those cases the collector becomes more a steward than possessor.


  7. Ok. A couple of things. First regarding this particular subject.
    I have always felt that old guns, especially ones that have some connection to a family member or friend that has passed the “treasure” on. I never, never ever recommend doing anything to make the object, (gun, knife etc.) look different or better. I have my dad’s old Sears 16 gauge pump shotgun (probably made by Browning.) I’ve had many people suggest a re-bluing and stock clean-up. I have always said my dad carried that gun for decades in pursuit of bunnies and pheasants. Each and every spot of worn meatal and scratch on the stock represents some memory of my dad. Do a refinish… never!!! This is always my recommendation to anyone that suggests doing this to any old “keepsake”.
    Also, years ago when I was shooting muzzle loaders and going to ‘rendezvous’ we’d be sitting around the campfire swapping “lies” and I’d tell the yarn about my camp hatchet. Told everyone that it was “the original, one and only” George Washington cherry tree hatchet. It only had the handle replaced five times and the head replaced twice! Kind of puts everything in perspective.
    One thing, Tom, off subject.
    Watched your YouTube video on mounting a scope. In the video you mention that you don’t tighten the ring screws with any more force that using the short end of the allen wrench for leverage.
    If I don’t really tighten the ring screws very tight the scope ends up sliding in the rings. How do you keep this from happening?


  8. B.B. Interesting that you mention three of the rifles in my collection that are extra special to me. 🙂

    My 101 is in parts and is scheduled for total overhaul this winter. May even re-barrel it. No interest in selling as this is the rifle that I learned to hunt with as a teenager. Just want to shoot it some more.

    Thanks for the articles on collecting B.B. – its not my thing but it is good to know about.

    Have a great show!

    Hank


  9. B.B., Off subject, have you heard of Gamo doing anything new for Daisy? I was sad to see Daisy see, but on the other hand, I was hoping Gamo would breath some new air into my old childhood friend. So far I’ve seen nothing other than it seems some more models have slipped away. I’m still holding out hope.

    Doc


  10. B.B.,

    I worked with a guy who collected vintage Mustangs and had about a dozen of them. He had a friend who collected only Corvettes. In the very late 1990s my coworker and his Corvette collecting buddy flew out to California (from Chicago) to pay for and pick up a late 1960s ‘Vette with — no joke — single-digit miles on it, probably no more than 20 or so. It was in original showroom condition. From the L.A. airport they drove a rented van to a nearby Chevy collector to buy new tires mounted on correct rims. They put them in the back, and they then headed to the Corvette seller.

    They exchanged cash and the title, and the seller asked if their flatbed would come later that afternoon or the next day. My coworker’s friend said, “Oh, no. We’re going to drive it home.” And they did.

    By the time I heard the story, the car probably had 30,000 or so miles on it.

    In the words of Michael Corleone in the first scene of The Godfather, “That’s a true story.”

    Michael


  11. B.B.,

    I actually own a professionally resealed Feinwerkbau 300 Mini LH. I had thought it was a “Junior” 300s, but you’re probably right. I’ll have to look. It is nice because it lacks the bull barrel and is probably a pound and a half lighter than most FWB 300s. I cope with the short LOP by extending my elbow to the side. Sweet shooter, and it chronies in the mid 600s.

    Michael



    • B.B.,

      As long as the report doesn’t end in the ER!

      One of my Boy Scout memories was our Scout Master teaching us how to sharpen knives with a stone and oil. He used honing oil on work knives and corn oil (!) on the kitchen knife he brought as a visual aid. He had each of us sharpen both blades on our scout knives as he watched and gave instructions. He had us put (the terms are probably just his words for it) a “working edge” on the larger blade and a “razor edge” on the small blade. He believed, and therefore so do I to this day, that a working edge lasts much longer and is safer and better for most work. His vintage scout knife had a small blade which could easily slice a sheet of paper, though. That elicited Oohs and Aahs from the troop.

      Michael



    • Yogi,

      I’m right there with you. And don’t think for an instant that you can’t cut yourself with a safety razor. I did twice this morning! But no cuts with the straight razor.

      However, what I have learned is not exactly that. It’s pretty amazing — or it is to me, at least.

      B.B.


  12. B.B.,
    I’m with you 100% on this one!
    Years ago, I bought a “James Bond Plinker,” a pre-WWII PPK in the original caliber, 7.65mm (or .32 acp the USA).
    I wanted a gun with no collector value, and this seemed to fit the bill; I even thought about having it refinished.
    Then Walther stopped making them, the value shot up, and I realized it would be a sacrilege to mess with a piece of history like this, so I gave it to my son, as is, to be passed on to my grandson.
    Keep up the good work.
    take care & God bless,
    dave


  13. Look up Browning double automatic shotguns. I have two, one was my dad’s shotgun, the other was my father in laws shotgun. After my dad died I inherited his gun. When my FIL died the family gave me his gun. My dad’s gun is still all original. I had Herb’s gun refurbished because of the condition that it was in when it was given to me. Both are shot on a regular basis. As an net interesting note both purchased their guns new in the late 1950’s. One in LA and the other in AL but the serial numbers are less than a 100 apart.

    These guns don’t have a collector value even though only a few thousand were made but, boy, are they shooters. As Tom says you can get them from my estate sale or more likely my daughter’s estate sale.

    I believe that for me personally I want guns, air or PB, that I can shoot. My best wishes to those who collect and conserve history.

    Jim


  14. B.B.
    That picture of the FWB120 looks a lot like the FWB124 I bought during the same time period – late ’70s. Do you know if there were variations of this? For instance, the one I bought looks just like the picture with an added rubber butt pad, and as I recall there was a smaller slot in the fore end. I’ll have to check with my brother since he is now in possession of that rifle.
    Larry from Algona, now tired after 5500 MC trip



      • B.B.
        I gave him a call – he confirmed there was a slot in the fore arm of the stock but everything else was identical to the picture. I kept trying to nail him down on specifics while he wanted to watch a Seahawk pregame hooray and managed to tick him off. He’s going to bring me the rifle so I can do my own research and leave him alone! I will try to take pictures but I haven’t been successful before, so we’ll see about that.
        The questions that I get from this is: Did ARH make variations on the stock and just offer them on the regular 124? and, if so, are they also rare? Also, wasn’t a 120 really just the same as a 124?
        LMo


        • Larry,

          I only know what little I’ve read in the ARH catalogs and the one rifle I saw. As I remember (20 years ago) it did have a small cocking slot that was maybe 3 inches long. The key is the depth of the forearm.

          Yes, the 120 and 124 are the same. The 120 is probably a very early iteration of the 124, or it is the model just before the 124 — I am not sure.

          Those stocks were custom, so there are no doubt some differences among them.

          B.B.


          • B.B.
            Thank you very much.
            Bringing everything back to your blog – If someone has such a “rare” rifle, what damage to value happens if there had to be repairs done. On this one, the main anchor lug (for lack of knowing correct name) came off the action. This also caused a crack in the stock fore arm. My brother took it to someone that could repair it and now it works just fine. The man that did the repairs was very old and may have even died since then. I believe all original parts were retained.
            I know you mentioned before that some repairs would ruin the value but the alternative here was a basket case, literally – the stock and action would not go back together.
            LMo


  15. B.B.
    I just found this on the web. I bet you can tell what it’s saying:

    Sep 20th 2014
    F120
    Alles klar. Das ist kein FWB 120, sondern ein F120 wie es
    bei “Air Rifle Headquater” von Robert Law Ende der 70er in
    den USA angeboten wurde. Es müsste sich also um ein
    modifiziertes FWB 124 handeln. Das ist in der Tat sehr schwer,
    solch eines zu finden. Dann eher ein 124 mit entsprechenden
    Tuningteilen modifizieren.

    Gruß Klaus

    Interesting, nicht wahr?
    LMo



    • Coduece,

      One way is to use a tape measure. Put the tip on the crook of your elbow and then measure to the first/end joint on your trigger finger. Mine is 15 1/2″ and just by feel alone, I like 15 1/4″ – 15 3/4″ which is what my 3 regular shooters measure. The M-rod has a AR butt which is adjustable and the TX and LGU have Limbsaver butt pads that add 1″. I use it on the Maximus as well. Hope that helps.


      • Definetly helpful I’m wanting to improve the fit of all my guns, and it seems like the right place to start. I thought their might be an element of feel to this equation. Thanks Chris!


        • Coduece,

          The Limbsaver brand is great. The are super soft, super flexible and super grippy. They are very forgiving to different contours. I tried others and they do not even come close. Just pay attention to the sizing chart. If you are lucky, you can swap them from gun to gun. The large fits the TX and the Maximus, while the medium fits the LGU. They are a bit pricey at 22-25$, but well worth it. They add 1″ to LOP. Good luck on getting set up better.



        • Coduece,

          I love a “mission”,…. I am running out them. 🙁 Since you have a M-rod,.. I pulled all of the baffles and now have bronze sleeves in place. The idea here is to reduce muzzle jump. Something like 7 oz. now. I also closed off the vent holes in the barrel shroud support. Now it is just like a standard barrel. It is louder. Today or tomorrow I will be doing 100 yards.

          As a funny side note, the prior set up was weights, 1 baffle and spring. I tried vent open and vent closed. The set up now is all sleeves. 70% is 3/8″ ID and the last 30% is 1/2″ ID. The stock cap is reduced close to pellet size,.. .25 in my case. Not good I think. Low and behold, I had a an adapter set for a kitchen faucet. All male to male, 3 sizes. It turns out that one fit the cap threads and the faucet end cap (chrome) now fits that. So,…. I have a non-restrictive,…. did I mention chrome?,… muzzle cap.

          So,.. I suppose that you can now say I have thrown everything at it,… (including) the kitchen sink! 🙂

          FYI,.. mine has an RAI stock, bi-pod, front pistol grip, matching UTG finger grooved pistol grip and a FAB defense 6 position AR butt with adj. cheek riser. Oh, an RAI offset adapter for the stock. I guess that you could say that I got it set up to “fit”.


          • That m-rod sounds super trick why no pics? I screen shot your comment for future reference. I just got back with my de-accelerater pad. It didn’t fit my Marauder well, but it did fit my Titan GP pretty nice and what a difference This all to get my lop right so I can get a Boyd’s stock for my marauder. I think 15 1/2 is about right.


            • Coduece,

              I do not have anything to take pics with except for a flipper phone. I have sent GF1 pics via phone in the past. Maybe he could convert it and post it if I sent him one? The Boyd’s are nice. I looked at them too. Instead, I went the Mattel-O-Matic route. No regrets. It looks bad # and is fully adjustable.


              • Chris
                Yes text me a picture and I’ll post it. Try to take the picture a little away from the gun. Like extra area around the picture. That way I can size it right to fit. Plus that kind of makes the picture zoomed in closer when it gets posted.

                And I’m waiting to hear how your Mrod does. And so far today the wind has been going crazy in different directions. Definitely the type of day I don’t like to shoot in. I posted some pictures today of some targets and a JSB pellet with some flash on the side. It’s on the Sig Sparitan pistol blog that I was talking about the barrel lubing the other day. But check out what the wind did to the group’s I shot this morning if you get a chance on that blog.





                • Coduece,

                  Hey,.. you noticed! 🙂 It is a bolt cap with a bb in it. It makes for a very precise finger pad placement. The bolt cap alone was an improvement. Hey,… it is just something I tried and it worked, so it has been on for well over a year now. I know,… I am not “right”. 😉




                    • Halfstep,

                      Mine did not have that cap. It sounds like the same thing though. Any small hardware store with all those bins/drawers of “goodies” will have them. They are usually specific to color/size. That can vary too, depending on the supplier.

                      The bb just makes a bump and keeps the finger from getting too heavy on the side of the trigger. The thought there is to prevent any pull.


                    • Chris,

                      I can’t really tell from the photo where exactly the bb goes. Could you describe it, since I know you can’t post a pic?




                    • Halfstep,

                      It is on the front side, toward the bottom. The cap fit good to begin with by itself. To get the bb to work, I put the bb in the cap first, then put it on. Then, take something to work the bb around to the front. I used a chop stick. The M-rod is the only one that I have done this to, but I would not hesitate to do it with any of the other rifles I have. And hey, it is 100% reversible if you decide you do not like it.


                  • Chris,

                    Thank you. Now that you have explained it to me I can see it in the pic. Do you place your finger above the BB or do you put the finger pad right on it. Sorry if I’m beating this to death but I’m leaning towards giving it a try myself and want to make sure I’ve got it right.


                    • Halfstep,

                      Finger pad right on it. The M-rod trigger breaks at 1 1/4#,… so not a problem. On a heavy trigger it may not be so comfortable. Good luck with it.


                    • Halfstep,

                      No problems on the questions, by the way. I just wish I could offer more in the way of experienced based advice/tips. As they say,… “Ya gots,.. what ya gots” 😉


          • i feel I’m getting a much more consistent hold with the right stock length. Which is hopefully going to help nail down my eye relief.I’m going to definetly be tweaking my scope position.




              • Chris
                You mentioned yesterday you was going to try out the shroud weight mod on your Mrod today at a 100 yards.

                If you get pictures of the targets and want them posted here today. Text me them on your phone and I will post them for you.


                • GF1,

                  I have decided to do 70 yards instead. The reason is,.. that is what I have the most of in the way of saved targets, for comparison. After a full review, I see that most of 8 pellets landed within 1″ with 1-3 further out. We will see about the pictures. I thank you for the offer. If I get some really good groups, I will take you up on the offer. The hope is to see all 8 within 1″ without any extraordinary efforts on my part. If I can do that, I will deem the experiment a success. I would say today is perfect in all regards. Heading out pretty soon. Catch you later.


        • Coduece
          A shorter legnth of pull has never bothered me. The only thing I don’t like with a shorter legnth of pull is it does affect how you mount your scope and rings. The scope has to be postioned more forward than normal on the dovetail for proper eye relief sight picture. Not bad on a springer unless you use a long scope and end up over the breech where the barrel breaks open. Or on pcp’s where you load the pellet or magazine or clip because of the turret knob housing getting in the way. Higher scope rings help with that though on pcp’s.

          But what I don’t like is a long legnth of pull. I don’t like to have to stretch my arm out and finger to get on the trigger comfortably.

          So yep the right legnth of pull or even a bit on the short side doesn’t bother me. The most important thing is the gun holds comfortably when I hold it.



    • Coduece
      Try different high scope rings to get your cheek weld correct if you don’t have an adjustable comb.

      I like keeping my scope closer to the barrel in certian situations. But do what you got to to make the gun feel comfortable is a big thing.



  16. Hey Folks,
    Asking everyone because someone surely knows… Why do some break barrel op rods have two pieces with a joint, and other have a single piece with a slight elbow?

    Is it a mechanical advantage thing, or an aesthetics thing?

    Also, what5 keeps the two piece rod elbows form bending into acute angles instead of applying force backwards?

    Thanks one and all (and Tom),

    -W



  17. Have been out of town for a couple of days. Tonight when I began catching up on the blog comments they were not working as normal. Normally I read the comment and then click on the date / time to mark the comment as read. Then the comments just drop down and I read the next comment and so on. But tonight every time I clicked on the date, the page would reload and then I didn’t come back to the same place I was at before clicking. I have finally have all caught up on all the comments over the past two days, but it was a chore doing so.


    • Geo
      Don’t know if you saw this. I posted some info and targets on Thursdays blog and more yesterday about lubing the barrel and accuracy. The blog was about the Sig Spartan pistol. Here I’ll just post the link to that blog it’s easier that way.
      /blog/2017/08/sig-sauer-spartan-bb-pistol-part-2/


      • GF1,

        Nothing dramatic to report. The M-rod is LOUD with no baffles,.. I will say that. Long story, short,.. I put the stock baffle system back in and opened the shroud support/vent back up. No weights at all now. The groups were tighter. And the sound?,… more of a ping instead of a loud BLAM!

        Lesson?,… The baffles seem to help accuracy and the gun was 4-5X quieter. The only caveat is that I left faucet adapter and faucet cap on. The only thing to do different is put the stock cap back on.

        In the end,… no real answers. But,… it would seem to be a step (back),.. in the right direction. 🙁


        • Chris
          I think it’s got to do with opening the vent shroud support back up more than putting the baffles back in.

          Remember when we talked sometime back about putting a air stripper on the end of the barrel with no shroud. I think opening the the shroud vent back up allows the extra air turbulence to blast back and relieve pressure instead of following the pellet.

          I think that when the pellet leaves the actual barrel that the more air pressure you can relieve the better. I had those 6 or 8 holes (don’t remember how many it had right now) in the shroud support drilled out bigger so there was about a 1/16″ wall between each hole on my .25 Mrod I had. That helped accuracy alot on my Mrod.


      • GF1
        Yes, I read your comments and viewed the pictures of your groups. Wow! At 50 yards your groups are better than mine at 25. Those TX groups really opened up after introducing a little silicone oil. I scrubbed the barrel of my RWS 34P with JB Bore Paste and a brass brush not too long ago so my barrel should be good for a while. I probably should not use the JB again on this barrel.


        • Geo
          I don’t think I would clean your barrel anymore after that time you did it.

          But you should try a few drops of some silicone lube in the barrel. And not really down to he transfer port hole. That seal on the piston don’t usually need lubed that often. Especially with the synthetic seals now days.

          But here this knocked my socks off today. I finished that tin of 250 JSB 15.89 pellets that had the flash on it. The ones that started grouping big and made me decide to lube the barrel (my way of cleaning barrels). And also the tin of .177 10.34 Air Arms pellets.

          I went to the new tin of 500 JSB 15.89’s I tryed yesterday when I was wondering if it was that other tin of 250 pellets with the flash causing the problems. And at the same time started a new tin of the Air Arms 10.34’s.

          And more things changed. Absalutly a great day for shooting. Maybe a 2 mph head wind and a slight overcast outside. So not as much glare today. Basically went from the worst kind of shooting day yesterday to the best today. Yesterday wind was blowing from 6-10 mph headwinds then changing from left to right and right to left. And sun shiny as can be. Just rediculous to shoot. No way to even figure a Kentucky windage hold if I wanted to.

          But here and this is probably the best groups these guns will probably do. Definitely the best I have shot with them yet.

          Oh and the flyer on the Tx group was the gun rotating when the shot went off. I think I pulled the trigger blade a little sideways when I shot causing the gun to move in the bag.

          I’m just going to say the stars we’re aligned right today though. 🙂


          • GF1
            Those are fantastic groups…especially being at 50 yards. I’m simply amazed that you are able to achieve such results with three spring guns. That FWB 300 can really shoot!


            • Geo
              And more than we think. That was a ideal time to shoot on those groups.

              Like I just said to Coduece. It took some time to make it happen. You saw the other groups and what happened with the gun and the weather.

              And believe me. All it was going to take was one little wrong move or hold and that group would be no good. Lucky I had only that one flyer on the Tx group.

              The thing is. That one flyer was a exaggeration of what happens with every group you shoot. That’s what you got to make not happen. And that is very hard to do. Repeating results and hold is what’s hard to do. And just think. I’m shooting 3 guns and hoping for a good groups on all. That makes it even harder.


            • Geo
              Yes the FWB 300 is a shooter. I had a .177 Tx that I tuned that shot good at 50 yards. This 300 out shot it to at 50 yards.

              I hopped it up and it’s shooting faster than stock. Plus faster than the HW30s. That’s why the HW30s can’t keep up out at the farther distances. It’s just not powerful enough. But if I tuned it up it still might not be as accurate as I want. Shot cycle will get more abrupt. So basically is a balance to get that gun to shoot how you want.

              The HW30s is definitely a good gun for the power it’s making. I usually mess with everything I get. But it still remains as I got it when I opened the box.


            • Geo
              Here is the thing now. What actually helped my groups the most today.

              Going to a different tin of pellets. Better shooting conditions. Me being more on the ball today. The lubing the barrel settling in more.

              Or was it a combination of all. You see what I mean. Alot to get right to make a shot count. And again. That’s bench resting. What happens out in the feild complicates things more.



            • Coduece
              This was a exceptional group.

              Look what I went through on the Spartan pistol blog to get here.

              Takes things to be right to make it happen. One little mess up and it’s over for than 10 shot group. Look what happened to the Tx group.



            • Chris
              Probably the best all 3 guns will ever do again on the same peice of paper. Everything was right at the right time.

              All 3 guns do shoot good repeatedly. But that was the best I seen yet out of them.


  18. Went to the air gun show yesterday. Hard trip with the traffic going up and weather coming back, but had fun and met some nice folks. Many thanks to Jeff Cloud for his efforts in making things to smooth for the vendors. Small crowd probably due light rain in the area. Perfect day otherwise cloudy with a steady breeze and mild temperature. Quite unexpected for Texas in August. Got to see Tom for a minute, but he was busy as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
    Not as much fun when you have a table to tend to, but at least you can visit with the other vendors in the lulls in traffic. Managed to thin the herd slightly. Ended up with to 2 new guns to bring home, a m-rod pcp with a hand pump and a Benjamin 347. Looking forward to next year.
    Pat




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