by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Benjamin 700 repeating BB gun.
This report covers:
- The Benjamin Automatic
- Model 700
- Repeater
- How many pump strokes?
- My encounter
- The gun
- Takedown
- Accuracy
- Price
- Ammo
- Getting it fixed
- Summary
And now for something brand new, because it is so old that most of you will never have heard of it. We have to go back to 1930 for this one! And those were exciting times at the Benjamin Air Rifle Company in St. Louis, Missouri.
The Benjamin Automatic
Early that year Benjamin launched the model 600 they called the Benjamin Automatic. It was a smoothbore 25-shot BB repeater that fired as fast as the trigger was pulled. Well, that was the story. I’ve never tested one so I can’t say anything about one for certain, but my general knowledge of multi-pumps of the day tells me you can expect a handful of shots before it’s time to top off the gun by pumping again. I’m saying don’t expect to rattle off 25 shots at one go.
The Blue Book of Airguns says a 600 in 95 percent condition is worth about $250, but 20 years ago I saw one that was in 80 percent condition going for $600. I think the Blue Book has this one undervalued.
Model 700
The same year Benjamin came out with the model 700. It is a 25-shot bolt-action BB repeater. The tubular magazine holds up to 25 air rifle shot (more on this in a moment) that are fed into the breech one at a time by the action of the bolt. Fire and then work the bolt again for a second shot.
Slide the magazine follower forward against spring pressure until it fits in the notch (large arrow). Load up to 25 BBs into the hole (small arrow). The knob on the left is not the bolt; it’s the magazine follower handle.
Repeater
The initial literature was specific about the number of shots you could expect. They said four or five successive shots before it was time to pump some more. So — 25 shots in the magazine, but 4 or 5 per fill. That’s an interesting concept and one that is sure to confuse some people.
By 1934 Benjamin literature was telling buyers the model 600 also got 4 or 5 shots per fill. The initial literature made no reference to the number you could expect — just the number the magazine held.
How many pump strokes?
A 1937 ad says the 700 is pumped 10 to 12 strokes for 4 or 5 shots, then topped off with 1 or 2 strokes after each shot to maintain the power. They don’t mention how many strokes to pump after 4 or 5 shots, but I would think 8 to 10.
My encounter
I first saw today’s test airgun at the 2018 Texas airgun show. It was on a table for $100, which I thought was a great price. I had heard of the 700, but this is the first one I had ever seen. I have seen about a half-dozen 600s in my life and they are considered pretty rare, which tells me the model 700 is also scarce. This one was priced to sell, so I told myself that if I sold any guns I would pick it up. But a reader beat me to it.
A couple hours into the show one of our readers whose name escapes me brought the 700 over to my table and told me he bought it. He did so just it wouldn’t get away. He wanted me to have it and said I could pay him when I had the money. He had paid $95, so I got what I believe is a very nice bargain. I hadn’t sold any airguns yet, but I had sold plenty of Godfather t-shirts and BB-gun books, so I was able to settle up on the spot. I’m glad he did this, because I don’t know if I really would have pulled the trigger on my own.
There was no doubt in my mind that the gun did not work at the time of sale. An 80-year-old pneumatic airgun that has 1930s technology has long since retired from the workforce. But I thought Rick Willnecker could put it right. Boy, was I surprised to learn that he doesn’t work on these models or even make the parts for them! Let me describe the gun for you first and then I will finish the story of repair.
The gun
The model 700 is 34-3/4-inches long overall, with a smoothbore barrel that’s 18-1.4 inches long. The pull is 13 inches and the weight of this one is 3 pounds 5 ounces. The stock is walnut, which was common in those days. Walnut is a fast-growing hardwood and Missouri is loaded with stands of American walnut trees.
The large metal parts are brass and plated with nickel that was very common in those days. The model 600 Automatic was then finished with a dark shiny black finish that we have called black nickel for decades, but I don’t think that’s what it was. The 700 was finished the same way. This gun now has 50 percent of the silver nickel remaining with none of it in good shape, and a little of the black under the stock.
The Blue Book says there are two versions of the 700, with the earlier one having the model number on the left side of the receiver. Mine has that, so it is early. Later guns had that information on the receiver end cap.
My gun has the model number on the left side of the receiver. There is that pesky “Benjamin Franklin” that fools so many into thinking it’s the company name! The quotes mean it’s a tongue-in-cheek play on the company name.
The pump is a pushrod that comes out of the front of the gun, under the muzzle — hence the nickname front-pumper. The model 300 single shot BB gun that came out at the same time had the same pump mechanism that Benjamin called a plunger back then.
The pump rod comes out the front of the gun.
Takedown
The 700 takes down and was sold that way. Takedown rifles were very popular at this time. They are still popular, but it’s much more difficult to take a broken-down rifle on a train or a bus today than it was in 1930. The 700 has a single captive stock screw that holds the barreled action in the stock. The stock inletting is very tight, so the one screw is all that’s required.
Gun comes apart with one screw.
Accuracy
Benjamin claimed an accuracy of 2-inches at 15 to 20 yards. I doubt that very much, because I have owned many of their BB pistols for which they make similar claims and they couldn’t do it. But we shall see.
Price
In 1930 the model 600 Automatic retailed for $10. This 700 repeater sold for $7.50 and the 300 single shot was priced at $5. While the stock market had just fallen, the economy was still stable in 1930, but the Great Depression was coming soon.
Both the 600 and 700 were advertised as having hair triggers. That was just a marketing ploy. The 700 trigger is a simple direct sear type that breaks at a reasonable weight for the 1930s. By 1937 the hair trigger claim was dropped and they were saying 3 to 4 lbs. which I think is a reasonable figure. We will find out in Part 2.
The 700 production ended in 1939. It was replaced by the model 710 that came out in 1940 and lasted until 1947. The thing that’s interesting about both guns, as well as the 600 Automatic, is that they are purposely made to shoot more than one shot per fill. If you only want to shoot one shot, just put in 4 or 5 pump strokes, according to the manual.
Ammo
Here is where things get a little strange. The Benjamin sales/promotional pamphlet, BB Magic, stresses the importance of using STEEL air rifle ammo (BBs) in these 3 guns. They say not to use lead because the spring-loaded magazine follower can deform the soft lead balls. However the same brochure goes on to say that air rifle ammunition is 0.175-inches in diameter and “real” BBs are 0.180-inches. Yes, the BBs of the 1890s were 0.180-inches and were also pure lead, but Daisy changed all that around 1905 when they reduced the size of the BB to 0.175-inches. They called it Air Rifle Shot from that time on. In the mid-1920s Daisy switched from lead shot to steel (you’ll shoot your eye out) and the size decreased again to around 0.171-inches. I have never seen steel BBs that are 0.175-inches, so I’m not sure what Benjamin is referring to.
I have in my collection a tube of Remington Air Rifle Shot from the 1930s. These BBs measure 0.175-inches on the nose. I also have a 1940’s-era can of Benjamin Air Rifle shot, but unfortunately it is in .22 caliber. Benjamin went on to make this same sort of BB repeater in .22 caliber, as well, and they made them until 1985. That’s fodder for several other reports that we won’t get into today.
This full tube of Remington Air Rifle Shot contains lead BBs from the 1920s. They are sized 0.175-inches in diameter.
I have this tin in my collection. Too bad it’s full of .22 balls!
I don’t know if Benjamin ever made steel Air Rifle Shot (BBs) that were 0.175-inches in diameter. They go to great lengths to explain them, though, so I assume they did. I will try both lead Air Rifle Shot and the largest steel BBs I have in the gun for testing.
Getting it fixed
Rick Willnecker told me he refers jobs on all old Benjamins to Harry Smith in Sunset, Louisiana. I called Mr. Smith, who owns a gun store, and he told me to send him the gun. On a gun this old he can’t say if he can repair it until he sees it.
I sent the gun and in less than two weeks it was back, and fixed. Mr. Smith had to make some tools to make the parts he had to have for the job, and the bill with shipping came to $168. I think that’s cheap, given what he had to do. But you may notice that I paid more to have it fixed than to buy it. That’s a common thing when the guns get this old and rare.
Here is Harry Smith’s contact information:
Harry J. Smith
385 Hwy. 182
Sunset LA 70584
337-662-3610
Coincidently, there was another 700 at Harry’s at the same time. I’m glad because it helped spread out the load. Harry told me he hasn’t seen a 700 in a long time and he hoped it would be like the 710s that he has seen. At any rate the gun is back and working, so you are about to see a test of a very rare airgun!
Summary
We are starting a look at a rare old American airgun that comes from a simpler time. This series will be as interesting to me as to the rest of you, because this is an airgun I have only heard about, but never seen.
B.B.,
Now I can see the lineage of our locally manufactured front pumpers! I wonder how many pumps it takes to refill this after the air has been emptied? I think I will revisit my old pumper which is gathering dust in the corner.
Siraniko
BB,
Awesome! I have been interested in knowing more about these front pumpers for years. I wish I had sniffed one out before this though. After this blog I am certain sale prices will likely climb.
B.B.,
A very nice write up.
The simple fact that there was multi-pumper back then that could even do 4-5 shots is amazing. Where is that today? Would that not sell? The Nova, the Independence,… but those are PCP/Pumper hybrids.
I am glad you were able to get it fixed,.. and fast at that! The $168.00 seems to me to be very well worth it. You did not mention ((what)) he had to do.
Looking forwards to more reports. (You know?,… you have ol’ Ridgerunner drooling all over himself about now?) 😉 I think that he did not act overly excited on purpose, so as to keep the end value down a bit. 😉
Good Day to you and to all,…. Chris
That’s an interesting old timer or an air gun.
I wonder how many youngsters accidentally shot themselves in the hand or arm while pumping this front pumper….
B.B.,
You know I will be following this series closely. I can see some carry over on the design especially the early Benjamin 31x. The linage of the stock and trigger still show up in the 397/392 pumpers.
Please let me know the length of the pump stroke when you measure the pump force.
Glad you provided Harry Smith’s contact information.
RidgeRunner might have some competition if you sell this one.
I will be suprised if it is accurate at all.
Don
B.B.
You nailed it. That is a very interesting piece of history. Chris asked if anything like that is marketed today. The Senica dragonfly is of the same operation with a different pump geometry. Pump up for several shots.
Gerald
Neat old gun. My Dad had a Model 300 back in the day when he was young. He said he was the envy of the neighborhood due the the gun’s power compared to the Red Riders the other kids had.
Mike
Mike,
That is an interesting observation. The pressed-steel BB gun was what this gun was being compared to — not some accurate breakbarrel. I think I will include that observation throughout the remainder of this report.
Thank you for sharing your father’s thoughts.
B.B.
B.B.
Guess that is what happened in my area and has left an unfair negative impression toward all BB guns.
The first “real” rifles that showed up were breakbarrels and that set the precedent for accuracy, power and range. Compared to the machined, blued, steel and wood construction of the breakbarrels the painted tin and plastic BB guns were regarded as “toys” and were considered to be in the same class as slingshots.
It took me to my second childhood before I could consider buying a BB gun – I keep on looking at the 499 and think that with the spring upgrade I might make room for one in the safe.
Happy Friday!
Hank
Hank,
If you are going to get a bb gun, I would highly recommend trying to find a first variant 99 made in 1959.
/blog/2018/07/daisy-model-99-target-special-part-2-2/
It may not be quite as accurate as a 499, but it is much more funner.
RR,
Yeah, the 99 have some potential and I will keep an eye out (pun intended 🙂 ) for one.
The fast slide-action and repeating capabilities of the Model 25 appealed to me and way back then I traded for one – had it for a couple of weeks before I got rid of it. Just didn’t have the accuracy I expected/wanted.
Most of us hunted with home made slingshots and dime-sized groups would be considered “easy” at 15 feet. We usually practiced shooting bottle-caps at 25-30 foot range and had little trouble hitting them. None of the BB rifles or Co2 pistols we tried at that time were as accurate.
If I could put an accurate barrel and a more powerful spring in a Model 25 chassis I think that would be the ultimate feral soda can slayer.
Hank,
I just shot my 99 a little bit ago at a Cicada shell on the corner of my garage. The range was about 20 feet. On the second shot there was no more Cicada shell. Poof. The 499 may be able to out shoot it, but it does not hold several hundred bbs at a time. I usually get tired of shooting it before I run out of ammo.
RR,
🙂 and a big 😉 !
Chris
Chris,
Just prattled on a bit to you! Please enjoy my blurb as a positive! 😉
Hank,
Vintage aside (RR) 😉 , the 499 will put bb’s into a 9/16″ dot ALL day long at 24′. The spring is a nice mod. and will add range. 150 added fps. Accuracy did not suffer at 24′ and am pretty sure it improved. It would be a great casual plinker. You would not be sorry to get one. Promise. You may love it so much just stock that you would not even bother with the spring mod..
Chris
Chris, are you calling RR “vintage”?? LOL!
The accuracy of the 499 is good and the upgraded spring puts the power level where it needs to be (IMHO). Its the muzzle-loading that makes me hesitate to buy one… still thinking about it though.
Hank,
RR may be vintage?,… but I was referring to his fine eye and taste for vintage air rifles. 😉
You are talking to a repeater/magazine lover. I do like them. I find it relaxing and using the peeps is a lot of fun too. Casual indoor plinking. If you remember, I pressed a very small washer in one of the ring sights to make it even smaller and the sight picture is perfect for ring binder stickers at 24′. It is like I can not mess up a shot it is so perfect.
On single shot mode,… I have been using the very nice shot tray on the Red Wolf almost exclusively while getting to know it and assessing the accuracy. Not only 2 magnets, but also 2 pins. I did try the mag. and pulled 1 shot, I think, and opened the group to 5/8″ at 30 vs the tray at 1/2″. 10 shots each. I think that they are really both the same. Got lucky there, I guess.
I could get used a shot tray. The MTM rest holds the rifle nice,… so all I have to do is pull the lever, load and return the lever to rest. If I had to pull the rifle up each time, the mag. would be more attractive.
I just remembered something,…. using the mag. does allow me to keep my position and getting a better feel for things in a more continuous/uninterrupted manner. My best groups have been with a mag. in the M-rod.. Easier to stay in the “zone” so to speak. The side lever is even nicer than the bolt in that regards too.
499,… you would not regret it,… just sayin’,….. Chris 😉
Chris,
Vintage?! VINTAGE?! You better believe I am vintage! Like a fine wine I improve with age. That is also why I do see the quality and craftsmanship in the antique airguns that is lacking in many of the “new” ones.
I do applaud your purchase of the Red Wolf, as Daystate is one of the few airgun companies that put quality number one. I so do wish I could find that quality in a modern Crosman.
Will that airgun be around 100 years from now? These will shoot as good as a brand new one. My 1906 Lincoln Jeffries model BSA air rifle was designed to be a 10 yard target rifle. You would be hard pressed to find any sproinger with open sights that shoots better than it does.
I am not saying there are not top shelf new airguns that are not as good. I am envious of your Red Wolf. I am also wanting an ASP20 so bad I can hardly stand it. All I am saying is you have to go to some pretty great lengths to impress me. Just changing the stock and calling it new is not going to do it, most especially when I can take an 100 year old air rifle and outshoot it.
I have watched you come into this blog not knowing much at all about airguns and watched you ask questions, willing to learn and advance to the point where you have become quite discriminating about what you truly wanted in an airgun.
Back in 2005 I sat down with Gary Barnes to work out a deal with him to build me an air rifle. At that time he asked me “What do you want to do with this air rifle?” That is the first question that everyone needs to ask themselves.
Now that I have prattled on as the “vintage” gentleman that I am, I shall bid ado and let others voice their opinions of which I could care less.
RR,
Well,.. not much to add to that! Spot on!
On the topic of “newbie – to – highly discerning air gun coinsurer”,… sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error and a lot of time and shooting to finally arrive at that point. Not to mention some coin dropped along the way.
As it is,.. I suppose we have a pretty economical hobby as compared to some. A word of caution to the unwary though,… shoot enough and try enough and economics might fly right out the window. 😉
No matter what,… enjoy it and have fun.
Chris
“prattled on”,….???? What is that? Something from the 30’s or so I imagine? I mean,… with you being so “vintage” and all. 😉
Chris,
I’ll second what RR said about – you have come a very long way in a short time!
Always enjoy your posts, inquiring minds always want to know eh? And you like to have fun!
Cheers!
Hank
Chris,
Ya young whipper snapper! I’ll thunk a knot on your head with my cane in a minute!
Connoisseur,… not what ever it was that I spelled. I knew it did not look right. 🙁 Had to look it up,… in a book,… as in the paper kind,… with actual pages.
That shows you how much of one I (really) am,….. 😉
Hank,
See my blurb to Chris below concerning being “vintage”.
RR,
Isn’t vintage just another word for OLD? 😀
Geo791,
It just sounds better.
B.B.,
My dad died eight years ago, but perhaps two years before that, shortly after I began as a hobbyist in air-gunning, He and I had two or three conversations about the two airguns that were in the house when he grew up. One I have to this day, a first or second variant Daisy 25. The other, gone from the family before I was born, was, I believe, through listening to my dad’s recollections and showing him photos of different models, was a Benjamin 700 Repeater in nickel plated brass.
My dad remembered clearly that it pumped from the front, was a repeater, and it shot lead round balls that were very small. When my dad, who was always strong for his age, had enough strength to cock the 25, my grandpa allowed him to plink with it.
The 700, on the other hand, my grandpa did not allow my dad to touch. Perhaps he considered it too powerful for a child, perhaps the quick followup shooting made him consider it too likely a youngster would be careless with it, who knows?
My dad remembered that every winter they would get a few mice in the closet under the stairs. My grandpa would kill them by shooting in the closet (lead, after all). He would shoot a mouse in the “heart-lung” area and then finish it off quickly with a point-blank head shot. My dad said he never used the 25 for mousing because, as my grandpa explained to him, he wanted the extra shot, which my dad remembered him doing even if the animal appeared dead from the first shot.
I can guess that my grandma, who very strongly loved all animals (“dumb animals,” I remembered her calling all animals) might have extracted a promise from my grandpa that even a lowly mouse not suffer one moment longer than necessary.
Michael
MIchael,
How interesting! In out first house Edith and I had a lot of field mice. The 8 cats would get them and chew out their livers then play with them until they dies and Edith could not stand that, so she asked me to teach her to use my Sheridan Blue Streak. She documented it is a blog.
/blog/2008/12/how-i-learned-to-love-guns/
B.B.
B.B.,
Gah! Please look below this for my response. I keep putting my responses in the wrong spot. After all these years . . .
Michael
B.B.,
Oral histories are precious. Sadly, the immediate nature of the internet seems not to encourage it, although I hope I am wrong. BTW my dad taught United States history to 8th graders for 30 years, so I grew up having the importance of history driven into my entire way of thinking and beliefs.
And since you began making Fridays a history day, I have very much looked forward to them, even more than I look forward to a new blog of yours Monday through Thursday.
Michael
That is a cool old pumper. Glad you was able to get it fixed.
Made in St Louis. I never knew Benjamin was in St Louis. When did that factory close?
GF1,
It ran from 1898 until some time in the late ’70s or early ’80s. When Benjamin bought Sheridan they then moved to Racine, but maybe not immediately.
B.B.
BB
I didn’t even realize that. I was in my teens and 20’s at that time. Our farm was only about 15 miles or so away from downtown St.Louis over in Illinois.
Don’t know why I didn’t know. Heck I even had a few Benjamin’s back in that time era.
Gunfun1,
The Sheridan/Benjamin/Crosman story is a great example of larger corporate fish swallowing smaller corporate fish.
For a long time each was a separate company and competitor of the other two. Then Benjamin bought Sheridan. Benjamin soon consolidated manufacturing at one location. But instead of moving Sheridan from Racine, Wisconsin to St. Louis, Missouri, the Benjamin higher-ups decided the Sheridan facility in Racine was better suited for their plans, so they moved Benjamin production up to Wisconsin alongside the Sheridan production line.
Then, as B.B. wrote above, Crosman eventually bought Benjamin/Sheridan. Pretty soon the manufacturing of Benjamins and Sheridans was moved to Crosman’s factory in New York State.
By the way, I had at least a few cousins who worked for a time at the Sheridan plant back in the old days.
Michael
Michael
I knew about the buy outs. But just never realized that Benjamin was in St Louis.
ChrisUSA, thanks. Unfortunately, my schedule is unpredictable between my rehab, writing a book, and some traveling. My book is on library services and the intellectually disabled who used to be called retarded. That’s why I was so intrigued that Lyudmila was partly a librarian.
Thanks for all the questions and concerns which I can’t respond to all individually. Hank, thanks for the reference to the online flight simulator. I was using X plane for awhile, and it was realistic enough to have me jerking around in my seat as I zoomed through New York City in an F22. But things got in the way, and I found the supporting forum to be pretty obnoxious. Maybe I’ll get back to it.
True that Lyudmila was no ordinary peasant. Still, I wouldn’t discount your basic peasant. Where they were deprived of formal education, their ingenuity went into practical things around them, and they certainly had plenty of motivation. The invading Germans made the mistake of stereotyping the average Russian soldier as a subhuman and paid a heavy price. I’m not sure about the fate of Duskwight’s opposed springer invention. Possibly he stopped telling me about it since it was over my head, but I also got the impression he got stalled on the availability of certain parts. For the moment, he is focused on reloading which is a great arena for his abilities. He has confirmed for me that at some point in WWII, there was a dedicated production line for Mosin sniper rifles. They didn’t exactly fabricate new parts from scratch, but they did a certain amount of customizing work, probably like the British did with their Enfield No. 4 sniper rifles. Duskwight has also volunteered to take me on a personal tour of Lyudmila Pavlichenko’s grave in the Novodvichey Military Cemetery in Moscow which seems to be comparable to our Arlington Cemetery. So, I just have to get to Moscow.
Matt61
B.B.
Thank you for explaining the “Benjamin Franklin” conundrum, I always wondered about that.
Carl
B.B.,
I look forward to the rest of the blog on this cool old airgun.
I once passed on a non-working Benjamin 300 as I thought it could not be repaired.
Hence, thanks for the contact info for Harry; mayhap I’ll grab the next one and send it to him.
Keep up the good work,
dave
Thank you for covering an early Benjamin. I have a soft spot for the front pumpers and the wife is glad they are scarce (limits me purchasing more). I have collected nearly each model, except 317, with several still in working order. The first I got was a Model C to the Model G. I attached a photo of some that I have.
That’s a fantastic collection. I hope you have them displayed in a place that is highly visible. I was born in ’46 and I think ALL those rifles were produced before me. Very nice 🙂
Defiantly, main room of the house. Friends are intrigued by them.
Rick S
Nice collection.
The ones that do shoot makes me ask. Do you still shoot them or do they just sit?
And then. Are you planning on getting the others shooting?
A fine collection. But to me they need to shoot.
Don’t know if you can relate. But I had alot of muscle cars growing up. And none were trailer queen’s. They all got used like they were intended from the start.
I hope your shooting and or repairing those guns. To shoot. If not why own them.
Don’t mean to sound harsh. But that’s just me. I like to see em work.
I do shoot the ones that still function. Enjoy the vintage! Generally the only repair needed was new leather on the pump. Surprisingly the pump leather from a Coleman lantern fits the bill and Neats oil. Yes I can relate, my very first car at 16 yrs old was an original 1969 Pontiac GTO. I too grew up with muscle cars. My brother and I at 18 yrs old, completely built from the ground up a 1965 GTO (389 Tri-power, Muncie 4 speed, 3:90 Posi). Very fast car! It looked stock but had some goodies for the internals. Lets say shifts at 6200 RPM and able to pull the front wheels. Just saying. I love to know how things work and fix those that don’t.
Rick
Glad to hear that.
Guns and muscle cars. Who would of thought. 🙂
But yep use to find those old cars that was sitting and bring them back to life. Can’t even say how much fun we had.
Do you have plans for the ones that don’t shoot?
Rick
Oh and how did you come about persuing the old pumpers you got?
I’ve always enjoyed vintage stuff made in America. I have always been into firearms and shooting. I reconnected with my interest in airguns from when I was young. I became intrigued with vintage American made airguns. Then discovered the community of collectors and airgun shows. The first one I attended was in Roanoke VA. I was HOOKED! I even met Tom Gaylord there. As for the pumpers, the story of Benjamins and their rarity peaked my interest. With their rarity i figured it would limit my collecting and I enjoy the hunt. Surprisingly the very first one a 1908 Model C was my first, nearly impossible to find! I found it by accident and wasn’t even looking, at a gun show in Raleigh NC. I have limited myself to the front pumpers. Then it became almost an obsession, anything connected with Benjamin and the company. Due to the rarity it has kept my collection small. This keeps the wife happy. Sorry I got long winded but I love this hobby.
Rick
Do you have other Benjamin air guns? Or is these front pumpers the main interest.
And come to think of it. Do you have any other air guns you shoot?
And you don’t know RidgeRunner do you. If I remember right he mentions those shows. And likes old air guns too.
And yep these old air guns are just as cool as old cars. To me anyway.
What I always liked when I found a old muscle car I was going to buy. Was the story behind it. The owners usually had a history of what that car was about. And always shared it. Even if I didn’t buy it.
Do you have stories about the guns in the picture?
Rick,
They are pips! Is that a 700 on the right? And next to a 600?
B.B.
I have L-R Model C, E, F, G, 300, 322, 600, 700. Looking for a 317.
Rick
Perhaps the only display of these airguns. Readers all over the world get to enjoy looking at your unique collection.
Thanks for sharing.
Decksniper
B.B.,
“…. pips”. Huh? Would you care to elaborate on that word? New to me.
Chris
Chris,
Just a slang word meaning something very special. From the 1930s I think. She’s a pip!
Also the term for round emblems of rank in US Army ROTC. A cadet captain has three pips.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you. I enjoy learning the occasional new word and the meaning behind them. The 30’s does pre-date my “born on” date,.. by just a wee bit.
Chris
Chris,
There you go again, rubbing it in our wrinkled faces!
Rick,
That is a great collection. Thanks for sharing. I would like to hear more about the ones you shoot.
Don
Rick,
Very nice! Thank you for sharing. A very unique display method.
Chris
DeLong in TN has an amazing collection and knowledge of Benjamin’s. He is a very helpful fellow too.
Red Wolf update:
No shooting today,… (very sad),… 🙁 but did get an ocular eye shade cup made. As good as the UTG. The product is called zipper tube and is made to encase chain or wires. As you can see, both edges are rolled together and “zipped” up with a tool/special pliers.
https://www.zippertubing.com/products/wire-and-cable-bundling/lightweight-jacketing/zip-on-pfr
I however,…. pulled it end to end and made a spiral wrap of sorts. This way I could dictate the ID size to fit the ocular lens. It worked perfect and after 1 sacrificial test subject,… I came up with a custom fit eye cup to my cheek, head and eye socket. It should help a lot with keeping extra light out, and thus,…. better sight picture clarity.
On the objective lens sun shade,… I did find/make a ring to match the objective ID and used plastic soda straws. Well,…. let’s just say that it proved more challenging than first anticipated. The straws want to slide around and gluing them would be tedious and messy. And still,…. you have to cut a nice 1/4″-1/2″ slice off the straw “log”.
(For now), on the objective lens sun shade,… I will use the manila file folder tube that I made and works. 11″ long and slips over the objective. I will add duct tape to the outside to prevent light from filtering through the off-white cardboard. This is only a test and will illustrate how well a front sun shade/tube add on will work for me and if I should consider purchasing a proper screw in one.
As I said,… a little update. Shooting tomorrow! Yea,.. HAH! 🙂
Chris
Hey Chris,
I received two emails with links to videos on the Red Wolf. I thought you might be interested so I will post the links here for you. I watched the review video but have not yet watched the programming video. Good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_KFJUA5rRA&feature=em-uploademail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG3Y74va4TM&feature=em-uploademail
Geo,
Thank you VERY much for both of those. They are 2 I had not seen yet. Both saved. I watched the first one all the way through. On the second one,… the programmer is an add on feature and info. is sketchy at best,.. from what I have seen. I will have to watch the second one in full later.
I would be looking forwards to part 2 of the first one. My battery is identical, but the charger is different/newer and very simple to use.
My rifle is identical with the exception of stock color. Mine is the more red with black undertones where as the one in the video is the standard Red Wolf and has the more black stock with red undertones. Other than that,.. they are the same. Both are gorgeous.
Thank you again,… Chris
No problem Chris. I too am looking forward to part 2 as well. I will get an email when it is posted as I did subscribe to AOA and ask for notifications. I know when I first got my Urban l looked for, and read everything I could find online about it. There’s always something new to learn 🙂
I was reading your discourse with (vintage) RidgeRunner. He was referencing you as newbie at one time a few years back. I’ve been following and learning about airguns here since 2013 and feel that I have barely scratched the surface of all there is to know about airguns. To me it has become addictive and I want to absorb all the knowledge I can. It’s been a great experience being here.
Geo,
I totally agree with you. There is much to learn,… and not only that,… to learn (well). Some of the posters here are/have been into airgun competition and have all of this figured out a long time ago. I learn what I can,… when I can.
The key then is,…. will I remember it 2 days later???? 😉 I find I do the best when I actually practice what I learn. I was laid off a few years back,.. but knew I would get called back and spent about a year shooting a lot. I got way better. Unless someone has a natural talent,.. that is what it takes.
The pace of progress in the industry is amazing. You have to really be on your toes and willing to sift through the BS and lack of info early on in a product launch. Not to mention,.. wait. Fortitude anyone?
SIG seems to have done well by putting it out ALL UP FRONT. That is the way it should be done IMHO.
Chris
Good afternoon Chris,
I just viewed the video on programming the Red Wolf. It was a very interesting video on how to make modifications to the power levels. He showed the results of increasing the power levels and then decreasing them. It was a pretty easy procedure. When he was finished with all the changes and results, his final comment was that he felt Daystate had set the base power levels at the optimum settings from the factory. So it would appear that changing the power settings would only be for special needs, such as field target, or wanting 12 FPE max. It was still an interesting video showing the possibilities with programming.
Geo,
Thank you for the review. I have yet to watch it. One would hope,… that they have set it accordingly. From what I gather, there is the 12 fpe, standard and,.. HP which has a longer barrel to get the HP,.. high power. It is assuring to hear that there is no real need to get the programmer.
I (will) watch it and thank you again for posting the link. All info. is good info.. Ok,.. I take that back. You know what I mean though. In today’s age,… you just have to be wise as to where you are sourcing info.. 😉
Chris
Chris,
I know you said that your are going to watch the video but thought that I would share this information anyway. Dan, at Airguns of Arizona, tested the Daystate Red Wolf as it came from the factory. Using JSB 18.1 grain pellets it chronographed as follows:
High Power: 968 fps, Med Power: 924 fps, & Low Power: 874 fps
So this Red Wolf is still very powerful even at the low power level at over 24 fpe at muzzle.
This is an amazing airgun! Pyramyd AIR does not sell these on there web site.
Geo,
Yes, it is quite the marvel. Depending on the model/caliber,… 200+ shots on low on 1 fill. I have yet to actually chrony mine. The DS factory did it and AoA did it and came with reports from both. Mostly chrony on high, but still nice that they do it.
Good Day,…. Chris
Chris,
The purpose of the shade is to prevent sun glare on the lens. It probably will not matter what color it is.
Have you looked at these?
/product/centerpoint-universal-sun-shade-2ct-fits-32mm-50mm-objective-bells?a=5547
If a screw on sunshade is not available, these should work very nice.
RR,
That is another one I have missed. The Athlon that I bought does have one that screws in and PA does carry it. I would have bought it at the same time I bought the scope, but missed it. Like I have said before, in my experience the objective shades have not proven to make much difference (for me). I certainly do not think that will hurt anything though. Better to have it, than not to have it, I would guess. I like that Velcro wrap around idea though. Very innovative. They sell stick on Velcro strips, so this looks to be something that anyone could whip up with about any tube material.
The ocular shades/eye cups have been a huge benefit however. The UTG one that I have on the M-rod will not fit the Athlon, despite having the original ID (still too small) and 3 more insert rings that can take the ID down further. Past searches have not turned up a whole lot.
At any rate, the card board objective and the zipper tube ocular will be a very good first test step.
On the honey comb lens shades,… I still need to try and determine if there is thread differences from one brand 56mm objective to another brands 56 mm objective. From what I have seen thus far, they are brand/model specific. You did say that they were different on your 2 Hawkes. I imagine that they are different. I am not even sure a call to a scope manufacturer would be very revealing.
Sidewheels are another thing. The Athlon has none and I miss it. I have seen some pricy universal ones, but forget where from at the moment.
So yes, when getting a scope,… consider if you will want a 1) side wheel, 2) objective lens tube/shade, 3) ocular lens shade/cup and 4) add on front filters/honeycomb disc. Some offer all things, while others offer some or even none.
Chris
Chris,
I myself have been wandering away from the side wheel. I have a couple in my parts bin I am not using.
I may have to pick up a set of those shades myself though. I have always been one for a sun shade on my objective lens. The honeycomb supposedly has the same effect in a more compact package.
RR,
On those shades,… the few I have seen seem to be geared towards law enforcement and mention not giving up position and concealment and such. Maybe for something like a sniper taking up a position?
They should have them for Hawkes. That is a popular brand. I would love to see you get one and run it through it paces.
Sunglasses can improve vision in strong light. I wonder if there is “sunglasses” for scope objectives?
Chris,
Yes, both the sun shades and honeycomb are marketed for law enforcement, snipers, etc. and the reason is they greatly reduce the reflected light that may give away your position. This is also true when you are hunting. A sudden flash can alert a deer to your presence.
Also, if you have ever been shooting in the direction of the sun and had direct sunlight strike your objective lens while you are trying to shoot it can wash out your view with too much glare for you to see what you are doing. Most aggravating when you are trying to produce a 1 MOA group at 100 yards or trying to knock down a field target during a competition.
Many of the new Hawkes have sunshades, honeycombs and flip up metal covers available for them. My next scope will probably be a Hawke.
Chris,
As for the sunglass thing, the sun shade and honeycomb cover that.
Chris,
I have a shade ordered with a scope that should be here this week. A back order item is keeping me waiting.
As far as extending the scope for shade reasons I am one to go to the plumbing department. There I picked up a rubber PVC coupling in 1 1/4″ that fit the ocular end and also the camera lense. The part was less than $5 and I could get a picture of scope view. I could also use it as an eye shade before I spend more on one I will not use. This is just my way of doing a mock up.
Gerald
Participant,
Sounds good. I too hit the home improvement stores when I need to mock up something. As stiff as the coupling would be,… you could still cut and fit it perfectly to your face, eye socket and cheek. You do not need to compress it,.. just come perfectly (up to) it. I spent about 2 hrs. on the UTG to obtain a perfect fit. With some work, it might be just fine.
I did shoot today and tried a 34 mag. at 50 yards into some dark woods. I could see pretty well with the front and rear shades on. Good enough to shoot. I removed one, then the other, then both and when they were both off I could not see a thing. Period.
I would have to say that the ocular (by far) made the biggest difference. The objective helped as well to some degree. That was the manila file folder tube covered with Gorilla tape and ending up look rather nice. 11″ long.
With a shaded target, the sight picture was less than perfect at 34, so I shot the day at 24 mag.. At 34 mag. in full daylight at 30 yards was crystal clear.
At any rate, I think you will find both to be of great help. If you get the ocular to fit nice,.. I think that you will agree that it does the most good of the two.
Chris
I remember back when I was a newbie. This feller named George gave me my first air rifle. He also gave me a hatchet he had cut some cherry tree down with. I still have the hatchet.
I started my journey down this road some time in 2005. My insatiable appetite for learning coupled with a fascination with these drives me to learn something more about them every day. I know most often I am walking down a well worn path, but every once in a while I happen upon a not so worn shortcut and have even had the chance to cut a new path every once in a great while.
Not too bad for an old, fat, bald geezer.
BB,
What did you think of the ASP Super Target?
RR,
I don’t have that much to say about it, so let me wait until Tuesday.
B.B.
BB,
I will try to be patient.
Thought I would give a update on some regulated stuff.
Ended up taking the regulator out of the Maximus and WildFire. Reason being I was starting to have a slow leak down problem with both guns. And I wanted to see if I had the leak down still with them out. No more leak down. And I have done some searching and other people have had the same thing with the regulator brand I’m using.
So I got a new game plan. Well not so new. I already done it on my Maximus when I first got it. I’m using the Air Venturi 13 cu in. regulated HPA bottle and the bulk fill adapter and connecting to the guns Foster male fitting.
But this time around I’m not going to mount the bottle to the gun. I switched the guns Foster male fitting to where the guns gauge is. Then moved the gauge up front where the feel fitting originally was. And I don’t like the gauge up front like that. But won’t be using that gauge anyway. It will only determine regulated pressure coming into the guns resivoir. The Air Venturi bottle will show the pressure of how much I have left to shoot. Oh and if I take the Maximus outside I will now be able to put the Air Venturi bottle in my front pocket since I moved the fill fitting back.
And that’s what I’m going to try with the Condor SS. I’ll just leave the factory bottle on and connect the air Venturi bottle to it’s Foster male fitting. No more AirForce Co2 adapter. Doing it this way now should allow for more air volume with both the guns original bottle and the volume of the Air Venturi bottle plus still have the good air flow from the guns high flow valve instead of the Co2 adapter and it’s valve.
/product/air-venturi-30-co2-coiled-remote-line-male-female-foster-quick?a=4638
/product/av-3000psi-13ci-tank-valve-1100psi-set?a=7882
And here’s a picture of the WildFire and then the Maximus with the fill fitting and gauge swapped around.
And here’s the Maximus.
GF1,
OK fine. I can see where that would work at the range, but not so well when walking around. Then again it might not be too bad.
I have had similar thoughts with a big bore muzzle loader air rifle I hope to have built in the near future. It would have a short air reservoir in the stock and I would carry a small bottle in my possibles bag. I could quickly charge it up after each shot.
RR
It actually works pretty good. You don’t even notice the bottle.
I had my Steel Storm set up like I’m talking about. I would put the Air Venturi bottle in my front right jeans pocket when I was outside can plinking. The gun can move around freely. The coiled line is like 3 feet long. So plenty slack in the line.
Hello Uncle Tom,
Have you tested the Weihrauch HW98 in .177cal?
/product/weihrauch-hw98-air-rifle?m=4402
Ghostcat7,
Welcome to the blog.
I have never tested the HW98.
B.B.
Hello Uncle Tom,
Thank you,I appreciate it. I really enjoy your reviews and insights.
Ghostcat7
Sorry I am so late on this, I will reference it on the next part of this series.
Because this gun does not have the leverage of the typical more modern pumpers I wanted to see how my spreadsheet would calculate the piston force. I had to make a couple of assumptions:
I used 12 inches for the stroke, given by B.B.
I used the inside tube diameter of the more modern Benjamin pumpers of 0.767 inches
I then adjusted the dead space and valve reservoir volume until I could match the pumping force B.B. measured starting with no pressure in the gun.
The valve volume ended up at 2.8 inches of the tube diameter or 1.29 cubic inches. Based on the 12 inch stroke and the 18 1/4 inch barrel there is plenty of space for a larger valve reservoir than the newer pumpers.
The dead space ended up at an equivalent 500 psi maximum pressure or .163 cubic inches.
My assumptions may be way off I don’t know but the results of the calculations sure matched up.
Below is the Chart showing the measured vs the calculated pump force in pounds.
Don