by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Hellboy BB gun is a realistic semiautomatic repeater.
This report covers:
- Features
- Realism
- Sights
- Carry handle
- Stock
- Magazine
- What’s it for?
- Summary
Today I start testing the Hellboy-BB-gun from Hellraiser — an Air Venturi brand. This is a semiautomatic BB repeater in the form of an M4 tactical rifle. Several readers have been waiting for this review, so here we go!
Features
Yes, the Hellboy is semiautomatic. Despite having a selector switch that has the Safe, Semi and Auto positions, the Auto position does nothing. The gun will still fire semiautomatically when the selector is in that position. The selector is located in the right place for anyone who has used an M16, M4 or AR-15.
The Hellboy’s maximum velocity is 495 f.p.s. which is below the Canadian limit for an airgun. However, because the Hellboy is a replica airgun that copies the M4, I am pretty sure it is a prohibited item under Canadian law.
Realism
I must comment how realistic this BB gun is! I looks and feels like an M4 in most ways. Only the weight difference gives it away. The Hellboy weighs 5.2 lbs. and the M4 weighs 6.5 lbs. empty and one more pound when a 30-round magazine is loaded.
The receiver is metal that feels like the aluminum of an M4 receiver, and the stock, forearm and pistol grip are made of the same plastic as the M4, or very similar. The metal is finished in a matte black that copies the military finish perfectly.
Sights
The rear sight adjusts for windage and elevation. It has a flip peep with two apertures — a large one for the battlesight and a smaller one for precision aiming.
The rear sight adjusts in both directions.
The front sight looks like it adjusts in the conventional way by pressing down a pin and rotating the sight post. The pin presses in easily, but I couldn’t get the post to rotate. The manual only addresses the rear sight adjustments.
Carry handle
The carry handle comes off the top of the receiver easily, via two thumbscrews on the left side. The handle lifts off to reveal a Mil-Std 1913 Picatinney base for mounting optics.
The carry handle lifts off to expose a Picatinney base.
Stock
The stock adjusts to one of six positions for changing the pull. Pushing it all the way in gives a pull of 10-1/4 inches, and all the way out is 13-1/2-inches.
There is an ambidextrous (swivels from side to side) sling anchor attached to the butt, and a sling swivel at the front of the handguard. I should mention they have installed a large round handguard to feels very full.
Magazine
Like many repeating BB guns, the magazine is where both the valve and the CO2 cartridge live. To load the gun you first take the magazine out of the gun, then disassemble the top of the mag from the hollow bottom.
The magazine insert (left) contains the CO2 cartridge, the firing valve and the BBs.
The BB magazine follower spring is quite easy to compress and the follower locks out at the bottom. Up to 18 BBs go through the same hole they will come out of when shot. It’s a deliberate loading system, but not tedious.
When you put the mag back in the gun it takes a slap to seat, just like an M16 or M4. That’s not surprising because the hardware all looks the same.
One person said his CO2 cartridges took a long time to seal when he pierced them, so I installed a cartridge to check it out. It did take longer than I expected. That means more gas escaped. The gun comes with a large Allen wrench to tighten the piercing screw, so I recommend you get ready to twist that wrench fast when you install the cartridge — especially the first one. I do wish the wrench were somehow stored inside the hollow magazine shell so it would always be with the gun. I suppose I could do that myself, wrapping it in a rag to stop the rattle.
What’s it for?
If you are asking what this Hellboy is for, it’s not the airgun for you. It’s for the guy who can’t wait to start rolling cans across the lawn. Please bear in mind that this is semiautomatic, only. The trigger must be pulled for every shot.
I’m going to test it for accuracy at 5 meters, and if it’s accurate I will try a little farther. I can see shooting this gun at 25 feet.
Summary
This is the start of yet another great lookalike airgun. I have high hopes for it!
Sorry everyone. I scheduled this for the wrong day.
B.B.
I must confess to being a little surprised by the excitement and hype surrounding this gun, because it reminds me a LOT of the semiautomatic Winchester MP4 which had some jamming issues but did most of what the Hellboy does, plus shot pellets with reasonable if not great accuracy. It had a full metal receiver and was a fairly accurate AR15 replica, though the factory sights were poor. What am I missing?
HiveSeeker
If you look closely the MP4 looks somewhat like an M4 with a 308 mag from the M14. The quad rail is also very plastic looking with no vent ports, same with the flash hider, a solid part with no cut outs. A nice try.
The HellBoy on the other hand is a dead ringer for the M4 and perfect replicas are the hot thing now. It had a lot or promotion time ahead of its release. I think the accuracy of the HellBoy is a big let down. Waiting to see how the one BB has works out. I replaced the barrel on mine and had some bad luck with extra mags, hopefully they have resolved that situation before the release date.
I honestly think they pulled the MP4 off the market because of the feeding problem. They should have keep the M14 set up with the mag captured in the receiver instead of the CO2 mag housing. Apparently the mag was easily misaligned. I have one NIB, perhaps I can check for a solution one day.
Thanks Bob M for the informed opinion. Though the MP4 came pretty close to the AR15, and I’m still a little puzzled it wasn’t more popular–but maybe that’s just good marketing at work for the Hellboy, and the MP4 jamming was a definite issue.
You are spot-on regarding the jamming problem with the MP4 compared to the Winchester M14, and if you can find a replacement CO2 Clip that might get a “bad” MP4 working right:
/blog/2014/08/winchester-mp4-co2-rifle-part-3/
HiveSeeker
I wondered for a bit if the problem BB encountered with the CZ75 mag when only one pellet was used could be part of the problem with the MP4 with one pellet left. But … the problem did not pop up when used in the M14. Probably is just mag irregularities as stated with a bad receiver design to keep it centered.
Hmmm . . . I noticed that magazine being listed as compatible with the MP4 (if I recall correctly). When I tested 9 magazines I had no problem with any of them. It does appear that the CO2 Clip is the sole source of the jamming problem. I came across no mention of jamming in the M14 which uses the same exact clip. I think this clip works in a couple other pellet pistols as well but couldn’t name them off the top of my head.
Hmmm . . . I noticed that magazine being listed as compatible with the MP4 (if I recall correctly). When I tested 9 magazines I had no problem with any of them. It does appear that the CO2 Clip is the sole source of the jamming problem. I came across no mention of jamming in the M14 which uses the same exact magazine. I think this magazine works in a couple other pellet pistols as well but couldn’t name them off the top of my head.
Sorry, I mixed up “magazine” and “clip” which are two different parts on this gun–the second post is correctly worded.
HiveSeeker
It just dawned on me that you wrote that four part series on the MP4. Talk about an outstanding job ! Well done my friend. I will try that black pellet.
I forgot you actually found the cause of the miss-feed problem. By the way, in section 3 of your blog I had an entry about putting a rail on the M14 with airsoft parts, I was “Max Firepower” back then.
I pulled mine out today to look it over and found the barrel not tightened as well as a lot of play at the end. I put two wraps of aluminum tape around the inner barrel in two places. One at the front pinch point webbing of the plastic quad rail alignment casting and another about midway down the metal outer barrel section which happens to have a pinched center section there. Barrel now tight.
Love that aluminum tape for centering things and removing play, watch for overlapping ends that may cause a build up and push things off center.
Like you I thrive on a good challenge and perhaps you have caught some of my earlier off topic blogs about this HellBoy. Especially mag irregularities I found and the conclusion I reached about the barrel being bored out too much to be accurate.
I replaced it with a Remington AirMaster barrel and things got a little better.. Actually turned it into a fairly good single shot pellet rifle too.
Started a little on the DPMS SBR by adding that removed HellBoy barrel to it’s length and getting an extra 100FPS out of it. (DPMS Sniper now?) Didn’t want to get too deep because BB had planned to do reports on these two as well as Stephen Archer
Thanks, Bob, and it did turn out to be a bigger blog project than I originally planned. I really like that gun though wish it was more accurate, but the semiauto firing makes it a lot of fun. Sounds like you are pretty good at tinkering with airguns!
HiveSeeker
Most of my modifications are cosmetic along the ‘Black Rifle’ theme. I too was disappointed with the lack of military replica airguns available in the past and looked into converting Airsoft but that’s rapidly changing today. Now I enjoy correcting defects and making the most out of something to suit my desire and who knows that may one day lead to modifying operating actions.
If you go back to the July 17 2018 blog I have three pics there and the first and last two pics in the P/A HellBoy customer images are mine also.
Bob M
Hiveseeker,
VERY nice set up you have there. I see now why you can put together such excellent reports.
By the way, I got the same rest that you have and love it. I even added two 3/8″ riv-nuts in the rear feet holes along with some bolts with knob heads. Now the back adjust too. My latest addition has one of those large bottles up front and I needed to get the back up (front fully down) to do 20-25 yards.
Good to hear from you,…. Chris
Hi Chris!
It’s a nice benchrest. The only guns I’ve had trouble with are some of my 2400KTs that have big scopes making them top-heavy. Sounds like you’ve done some nice tweaks to yours.
Personally, I have no interest in owning an air rifle that copies the appearance of a military weapon. Especially a weapon that is a weapon of choice for criminals that want to shoot large numbers of people. Think about going into your back yard to target shoot with your nee neighbors also in their back yard. First, take your Daisy Red Ryder out. Then your air rifle made to look just like an AR-15, M4, or what ever. Yes, you and I know that looks don’t mean much in air guns and rifles, but what about those neighbors? I’ll stick with my multi pumpers, maybe a nice Benjamin, or a Sheridan 2260MB. I have troubles enough without having the SWAT team called by my, otherwise, good neighbors.
Birdmove,
I talk to all my neighbors (especially when they are brand new) about the fact that I shoot live ammo as well as dry fire in my yard and invite them to watch or join in if they want to try shooting out. I have Range Is Hot – DO NOT ENTER signs at the entrance points. I have safety glasses for them and I point out the trap, secondary backstop and finally the tertiary backstop. I also point out that their are no holes in the last two safety measures. Most of them are amazed at how small the paper target bulls are and even more at the groups on completed targets. So far no SWAT TEAMS have visited and most of the neighbors say they feel safer having a neighbor they can call on in time of need. I live in a very non gun friendly area; other than the other military types who rent or buy homes here. The heads up has resulted in teaching a few of the adults about the good work of the NRA and lots of the kids about gun safety using the Eddie Eagle method and a few how to shoot.
May or may not work where you live but it works for me!
shootski
Birdmove
I don’t think our military consider themselves criminals and they use them all the time to shoot large numbers of people. I’m sure you are referring to mentally challenged people. I believe most criminals prefer a pistol.
Sorry you live in a place that restricts your freedom. You have made a wise choice in not owning a black military rifle and I am not likely to expose people to mine. Fortunately I can shoot anything, any time on my property without raising an eyebrow.
Sometimes you would think there was a shooting range close by and shotgun blasts are just part of life here. I have vacant land on two sides and can barely see my only two neighbors homes.
Glad you can at least shoot something. I could not for the first 20 years of my life in NYC.
Bob M
B.B.,
Just got a wee bit worried when you didn’t post on time. If the rear sight is removed along with the carrying handle to allow installing a scope, wouldn’t the front sight be in the way? Looks like all the adjustment is on the rear sight. The front sight seems to be only an ornamentally adjustable sight.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Usually these front sights don’t even show in the scope. Sometimes you see a blur in the scope of lower power but often you see nothing. The sight does subtract some of the light coming from the target, but in most situations it doesn’t matter.
B.B.
BB,
I’m with Siraniko on this. It seems one would have to use ridiculously high mounts to prevent seeing a front sight with that much material in its construction, and what about an unmagnified reddot? They don’t have a lens system to bend the light, as a scope does, to mitigate the blur.
PA’s sight confirms that the windage and elevation are both adjusted at the rear. On this gun and an actual AR with open sights, does the height of the sights above the bore axis require a shooter to be especially aware of cant when shooting at long range? I never gave it any thought in the past, but I have since learned, from this blog, how important a level hold is for distance shooting so now it stands out to me how high they are.
Half
Half,
You’ll see the front sight through a red dot every time. And, yes, cant does matter.
B.B.
Hey Half,
On the A2 front sight some if not all have a purpose made tool for removal and adjustment if provisioned with the correct sight pin. The usual setup for a no magnification optical system is call
Co-witnessed or Lower third Co-witnessed [which simply means that the iron sight system shoots to the same point of aim (POA) and the iron sight appears centered or in the lower third of the optical image.] It works but is a compromise until you use the quick off and loose the optical system off the rail. I prefer a full Mil Std 1913 Picattiny rail with BUIS adjustable front and rear sights and some optical type of sight Co-witnessed on my Stoner AR platforms or JUST a fixed handle for a end of the world as we know it weapon. I have watched shooters mess with the front and rear elevation adjustable sights and get more lost than than the characters in the LOST series!
The buety of the platform is that you can make it what you want without needing to be a gunsmithing or paying a gunsmithing to make modifications or upgrades…needed or not!
shootski
Shootski,
You may have caught that B.B. and I were kicking around the idea of a (pellet weigh/pellet head/accuracy test),… of sorts.
Do you have any experience with pellet head sorting and weight sorting?,… and if so,…. any opinion good or bad?
Any opinion welcomed,…. Chris
Hey Chris,
Just watched another Daystate Red Wolf video at AOA. You may have seen this one but I came across it and thought of you. The first five minutes or so of the video speak of the features of the Red Wolf so you might want to skip that part. The shot counts, FPE, and 5-shot group at 50 yards were all impressive. That sure is a primo airgun 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAbyBZjfuA0
Geo,
Thank you. I have seen that one and I thought you had posted it,… but perhaps not. It is too early to tell much as I am still refining my learning of it, the FFP scope, higher mag. and solid rest. So far, so good.
I am not one to rush things and tend to take my time and be a bit methodical in my approach to things. Limited shoot time too. So,.. time will tell. I like to have a plan of things to test and try when I shoot and pretty well stick to that. The current focus is final sight in and playing with sorted pellets. Also,… introducing pellets that are (known) to be off from the main sorted batch that I am testing.
The biggest thing I am looking for is repeatable results. If I do not get that,… then I am doing something wrong.
Thank you again and keep them coming. I am sure there will be more as times goes on. As much as I would like to endlessly search the net,… I do not make a concentrated effort to do so.
Chris
Chris USA,
Something for your peace of mind if anything happens to your Daystate Red Wolf: https://airgungurus.com/news/well-done-daystate-8
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I just saw this on another site and got the same impression from the owners post. That is good to see. Thank you also for the site as it is one that I have not seen and have saved and plan to look over further. Thank you. You are for SURE a wealth of air gun information.
I remember that you were kind of leading the way on air gun blogging in the Philippines,… so I guess that you (have to be) on top of things. 😉 Maybe you are like our version of B.B. over there? 🙂
Thank you,… Chris
Chris USA,
I’m not actually blogging. There was a time I was active in putting up links to the blog with short summaries in our native language to the various local Facebook groups. The responses were not that great though. Actually only a few ever responded and since most are stuck with the bulk CO2 as their powerplant of choice not much I can get from the blog right now. Only recently has the spring powerplant been recognized but with our economy going south that may evaporate too.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Well,.. thank you for making the effort over there on your end. Rest assured,… we (all) appreciate you here! 🙂 More often than not,… you really surprise me on the stuff you come up with,… and pretty darn quick at that! 😉
Chris
Hey Chris USA,
I’m happy to add what little I still remember about sorting by weight but I never have done head size sorting. When I was much younger and serious about 10 Meter airrifle and airpistol I bought R-10 by the case and was able to specify head diameter. I had heard of competitors measuring and sorting but I don’t recall ever hearing of pellet head size gauges back then; I tried to use micrometers and even had a lab machinist make a head size fitting to hold the pellet head to avoid the obvious crush/deformation problem. As far as weighing I had a balance beam with calbrated weights and the time that took to stabilize for each pellet quickly ended that endevour.
Digital balances (scales) were inordinately expensive and had calibration drift issues. As a matter of fact they still are expensive and have stabilization time issues and still need to be calibrated by a precision calibration weight every time they are turned on. They are also sensitive to ambient and operating temperatures.
https://www.dscbalances.com/balances-scales/balances/precision-balances?dir=asc&order=grade
You all can check out the facts and cost of the weighing matter on the above link.
My personal opinion is that if you are good enough of a shooter to need that level of precise pellet/bullet size/weight your sponsers or coach, assistant coach can/will be doing that for you…Lol!
I personally think trigger time, physical and mental strength training are time better spent than working with weighing ammo; for me these days for sure.
As an aside, if you take away those variables then I have little to use as acceptable excuse when I embarrass myself shooting even my old Hämmerli AR-50.
I have no experience with measuring pellet head size with the pellet guages so can’t comment on the cost bennefit of that method.
I can say that with a big bore bullet I do a random check on commercially puchased bullets for both weight and size. I use a set of sizing die as a Go-No Go on bullets and a micrometer and dial especially for cast lead ball ammo to randomly sample some few.
Obviously when I cast my own they are perfect ;^p
Just to avoid frustration at the range or on a hunting outing. Most of the time I go by feel as I am loading into the breach as a final check.
Not a big help I’m certain but that’s my honest opinion on the matter.
shootski
Shootski,
Thank you very much for your time to reply and share your experience.
I do agree, practice and everything being second nature is key. I do well to shoot one time a week and if real lucky,… 2 times. A good outing will be 100 shots, thereabouts.
Variables,…. yes, they are good to eliminate. The downside, as you said,… now I am out of excuses. 🙁 The rifle lacks nothing,.. so no excuses there either.
Thank you again,…. Chris
I can certainly confirm that. One time I was sneaking around the corner of our house to take a squirrel in the back yard. To be stealthy, I had already raised the gun to firing position with my eye to the scope before coming around the corner. I had a perfectly clear view of my target and surroundings at that range of about 15 yards. Little did I know that my muzzles was just 2 inches directly in front of a downspout on the corner of the house. I saw none of that in my scope. Pulled the trigger and shot right through the outer corner of the downspout. I then did a test by setting a block of wood directly in front of the scope that blocked half of the scope. Still had a perfectly clear view down range. The only difference when removing the block of wood was a slight change in illumination. Lesson learned.
That is a funny story 😀
I was shooting at a gopher in my backyard with my Diana 34P in .22 caliber. The range was about 15 to 20 yards. I missed the gopher, but that pellet ricocheted off the ground and hit my neighbor’s pole barn. It ripped a hole right through the metal and left a gaping hole about 2″ long! I pushed the metal back down and it was no longer visible. Learned a lesson there too. Don’t shoot towards a building, the pellet and skip right off the ground and do some serious damage.
B.B.,
This sure looks like the real thing! With very little work it could go right onto a movie or TV set.
Given that it is semi-auto only, I wonder how it will fare in sales against the DPMS SBR by Crosman. Neither appeals to me personally, but if I wanted a black rifle in air rifle format, I would probably want to at least shoot bursts, which is how the real steel ones are to be used.
These reminds me how what defines “cool” is in constant flux. When I was young it was the M1 Carbine, no question. Kids of the 1960s and early 70s considered the M16 to be ugly and formless, but the M1 was classic.
That, of course, changed. A lot. We thought the coolest revolver was the S&W Model 29, “the most powerful handgun in the world.” Now many people barely know what a revolver is. The cool pistol was either the Colt 1911 or the PPK, Walther PPK. Now the square angles of Glocks are what young people probably think of when they think of “handgun.”
Michael
Preliminary on the Air Venturi Nomad with outboard inverter.
It runs . Comes with a bag of spare parts , oil, male qd adapter , extra moisture filters (4).
The plastic window that covers the load indicator fell off , but I was able to retrieve it through one of the ventilation slots. I will tape it over the load indicator hole with some clear packaging tape.
There is a small pressure leak somewhere . There are a lot of possible leak points in the hose/filter assembly.
tt
TT
Did you figure anything out about the leak yet with the compressor?
GF
Not yet .
I want to look at the power requirements too . Nothing specified on the unit or in the book about how much juice it takes in ac or dc mode.
tt
TT
Is it built nice? And I forgot it takes a shop compressor to operate right? What cfm does it need if so.
GF
Looks nice . No shop compressor needed . All it needs is power .
I topped off a T200 tube that was down about half a fill . It was quick with such a small air tube.
I need to put a fill in something to time it .
tt
TT
When you get to that point of filling guns. I would like to know how long it takes.
And I like the idea of no shop compressor needed. I think that would be a pump I would buy.
GF
It is not intended to be beaten hard, or for filling massive carbon fiber tanks . Frequent maintenance is required.
It will suit my purposes just fine .
tt
TT
It sounds like it performs similar to my China compressor.
If the China compressors weren’t available. I would probably have the compressor you have.
And who knows. Depending on how the China compressor holds up. I may get the pump you have next.
GF
This is made in China . Where would you find ANYTHING that is not made in China ????
tt
TT
Hmm really. I just didn’t think it was for some reason.
GF
There is no leak in the compressor setup. It is somewhere in the fill adapter setup for the T 200 . There is a DIN adapter with a bleed screw, and the adapter to the T200 tube .
I measure almost 3 amps current (125V AC) at 3,000 PSI . That’s 375 watts. That much power at 12 volts DC would be 31.25 Amps . You might want to leave your engine running while you fill .
tt
TT
Ok on the fill adapter hose set up.
And what would a marine deep cycle battery be like. Would that be better than charging from a car battery and alternator?
GF
I am not familiar with operating parameters of the marine batteries . Would take some time to charge back up for sure .
I would not want to run the voltage down too much, though. You could cause an overcurrent condition that might smoke the motor .
tt
TT
Doesn’t the compressor have a overload breaker on it that will kick out? The China compressor does.
GF
I know it has a fuse, but without any value showing. It also has a kickout if the load exceeds a certain amount . I would not want to risk it.
tt
TT
The kick out is what I’m talking about.
See if it has a rating on it.
Who knows if they got it right. And I’m betting the motwe doesn’t have a motor plate on it to show what it’s rated at. That’s a very important thing to reference on our motors at work to see.
If the breaker is set to low you will kick it out all the time from the load. If it’s set to high you will eventually burn the motor up if the amps get to high.
The radio controlled airplanes that are electric are the same. You have to have a big enough speed controller for the amps it will draw. You will smoke the motor or the speed controller be if they ain’t right.
That’s why the motor data plate is important.
And I’m sure I’m just rambling to you since you worked on F4’s when in the military. 🙂
GF
The old F4 curse .
Breakers will eventually fail either from being manually popped, or if something pops them too often.
3 phase 400 Hz powered equipment does not work if you lose a breaker on one phase . A bad breaker can pop, or not pop depending on how it fails .
Guaranteed to stump almost everyone and have them running in circles all day .
A phase reverse is also a champ for driving people nuts . Why did I always get called to troubleshoot these problems ??
tt
TT
Yep with the 3 phase. That’s what I deal with at work.
Our machines have usually 12 or motors on one machine. Each machining station has it’s own 3 phase motor, breaker and contact.
The last 4 new machines we have got use frequency drives and no contact or breaker. But also there are other parts of the machine that run on contacts and breakers.
The frequency drives are good in some ways and a pain in the butt in other ways.
tt,
I read the review of this compressor at ‘Hard Air Magazine’ and he said it will shut off if battery voltage drops too low. I don’t remember the number but he advised to keep the engine on while using the compressor.
Gerald
Gerald
I still don’t like the idea of beating circuit protection devises .
Thanks for the info.
tt
tt,
I just saw that I spoke of the wrong compressor. The one reviewed by Hard Air is the Benjamin Traveler. Similar set up but different brand. Sorry
Gerald
Gerald
Thanks. I will still stay on the side of caution. You don’t blow as many things up that way.
Can always do it the hard way…load up the generator and take it along so I can run on AC power.
Did I really say that ?
tt
Twotalon,
Deep cycle marine batteries are more tolerant of complete discharge than automotive lead acid batteries. Otherwise they operate the same. They should last longer if not abused.
Siraniko
Siraniko
Thanks.
tt
M4 High Sights
The sights on the M4 are high because the stock sits high, no drop off. You would need to raise just about any sight system to get proper eye alignment. A dot sight should line up with the front sight in a co-witness set up.
The A2 AR15 with the fixed carry handle rear sight even requires a raised cheek adapter to compensate for the added height created on the fixed handle with a drop in weaver mount for a scope.
You only capture a small section of the front sight and its all but invisible with a magnified scope.
BB
If you could … would you measure the spring pressure for the hammer lever at the back of the mag. I found some at about 3lbs. and another at 5lbs. Needless to say the 5lb.had better FPS. I think they played around with the mags operating specs and a few earlier ones may be floating around.
Bob,
I will try. I know what you are talking about, but what exactly do you want me to do with it?
B.B.
BB
I’m trying to find out if the 5lb. magazine springs are being issued with new rifles and have the stated FPS . There have been people reporting very low FPS and returned them. I suspect the 3lb. spring was in those. I received two spare mags that performed poorly with the weak springs. I was going to return them but it’s not cost effective.
Was my 5lb. spring a fluke or the reason for the better FPS. I want to order two more mags and may try to get P/A to test them before shipping. If you have a push pull scale and can easily accomplish the test we may find a relationship between the spring and FPS. I used a bath scale and deep socket to connect the two myself There is a 40% difference in the springs. Which one is preferred by the company and being issued with the rifle. Or is it just the luck of the draw ?
..Thanks, Bob M
Bob,
I will try to measure the spring force. It seems very stiff to me now, so I’m guessing it’s the higher rate.
B.B.
B.B.,
This is legal under Canadian law – the legal gray area around replica guns is around airsoft. One source I ran across mentioned a fps/KE threshold above which an airsoft or bb gun would be considered ‘potentially deadly’ and no longer fall afoul of the replica prohibition.
Although they are not airsoft retailers, DL Airgun are a well-known airgun distributor up here and stock a number of the Legends BB pistols and rifles including the full auto MP40 and M712. I’m sure they may be familiar with the ins and outs of that area of the law if you are interested.
As you pointed out in the previous blog, the airgun community is much smaller than the firearms community (up here as well), so the quirks of legal gray areas aren’t as well known.
On an unrelated note, DL is apparently able to import Weihrauch powder-burners as well
Chanman819,
Thank you for that clarification.
B.B.
Ditto for my experience with the MP4. I used various sizes of plastic and Brass pipe to keep the barrel from wandering. Shoots great at nine yards but I haven’t had much luck at distances like 30 yards… Even with a scope.
There is no “gray” area.
Our airgun laws say that to be considered an airgun it has to shoot over BOTH limits. It has to be over the FPS AND energy limits. You can exceed one but not both (the RCMP (our federal police force) says it’s one OR the other but the law clearly says you have to exceed BOTH)
Prohibited replicas are for stuff like Denix unless they’re antique, then they’re not prohibited.
To be a prohibited replica airsoft have to shoot slow (under 166fps if I’m not mistaken). If it can harm you, it’s not a replica, it becomes (like most airguns) a firearm except on some laws regarding transportation, registration, storage etc.
So slow airsoft guns have to be clear plastic so they’re not considered replicas and we don’t need that dumb orange muzzle thingy.
If you were to commit a crime with an airgun (airsoft, one made out of wood or your fingers in the shape of a gun in your jacket pocket… if you tell the bank teller you have a gun) than it becomes a crime commited with a gun.
It’s not that complicated once you’re used to it.
And silencers are considered a prohibited firearm by themselves, even if they’re not attached to an actual firearm or barrel.
So you want a gray area, here’s a fun one.
Since any device that lowers the report of a firearm (or airgun/airsoft gun) is a prohibited firearm, it could be argued that a indoor shooting range is a prohibited device since it lowers the report for everyone outside said device. They’re no mention of a size for said “device” in the law so where is the line of “prohibited device” drawn? If you’re firing in the woods behind your house… the trees are lowering the report of your gun… SPACE between the gun and people ears are lowering the report of the gun!
Aaaaah are laws great? Don’t you love it when people who know absolutly nothing about a subject are making laws regulating said subject?
Been a while since I posted here, I still read a lot of your great reports but I don’t have as much time for the comments as I used to and I still really miss Edith interventions a lot.
J-F
I’m not referring to the KE/FPS limit for an airgun to be treated as a firearm for legal purposes (the 500fps/4.2 foot pounds threshold you mentioned).
I’m talking about the second threshold for prohibited replica airsoft as the replica prohibition was the one mentioned by B.B. in the review.
For example, in these RCMP fact sheets, you can see the replica firearms are already a legal grey area because of the grandfathering clause. They also note that airsoft guns with a MV above 111.6 m/s (366 fps) are safe (overzealous customs agents notwithstanding).
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/air_gun-arme_air-eng.htm
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/replica-replique-eng.htm already a grey area since
However, the RCMP’s interpretation does not cite a court ruling.
The likely the source of B.B.’s original confusion is the Firearms Act (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-19.html) as it defines a Replica firearm as:
“any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm;”
and then subsequently defines “Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms” under which the most BB guns fall.
Chanman819,
That is what confused me.
B.B.
It’s confusing because of the way the RCMP interprets it. They’re not making the laws, they’re supposed to be applying them, they shouldn’t interpret and re-phrase them they way they are doing right now. The worst part is the re-classification they’re doing on some long guns on appearance alone but that’s a whole other can of worms.
But the key part is “and that itself is not a firearm” since all things that shoot over the 366ft/s limit are considered firearms (except for some parts of the law mostly regarding transportation, registration and storage) that make it quite clear I think… our gun laws SUCK LOL
J-F
J-F,
It is good to heart from you again.
B.B.
I think the MP4s practical range is 20 to 25 yards, and that’s when you find the right pellet for it, which seem to be either jsb 7.3 or 8.4
Hi BB,
I am a Canadian owner of a new HellBoy M4.
The HellBoy is legal to own because of it’s muzzle velocity and muzzle energy being lower than 500 fps and 4.2 fpe.
If the power exceeded 500 fps and 4.2 fpe (must exceed both) then I believe the HellBoy M4 would be a restricted firearm.
Spinoza,
Thanks. I guess I did not understand the law, as it is written.
B.B.