by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Remington 1875 pellet and BB pistol.
This report covers:
- Different cartridges?
- Thank you for asking
- Problems loading?
- Let’s go!
- RWS Hobby
- I was confused
- Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
- Air Arms Falcon
- Learned something
- Shot count
- Summary
Today we look at the velocity of the 1875 Remington BB and pellet revolver. In the first report I glossed over the fact that this revolver also shoots pellets. It even comes with 6 cartridges that are specifically for pellets, so those are the cartridges I will be using today.
Different cartridges?
This first question that came to my inquiring mind was — what’s the difference between the two cartridges? Obviously the 6 additional cartridges cost money, so why put them in a blister pack with a gun you are partially selling on price? They must be different and the difference, however small, must be important.
Thank you for asking
I’m so glad you asked! First, let’s look at the headstamps on the base of each cartridge.
The two cartridges look quite similar, but their headstamps are different. The BB cartridge (left) says 4.5mm and the pellet cartridge has the image of a diabolo pellet (arrow).
The BB cartridges say 4.5mm on their base. The base of the pellet cartridges have the image of a diabolo pellet. Both are loaded at the base, where there is a soft synthetic material to hold them. I tried measuring the inside diameter of each base, but the numbers I got were conflicting and not accurate. There are low ridges in the synthetic material of both types of cartridge, to hold the projectiles.
On the other end of each cartridge there is no synthetic material. On this end, the pellet cartridge has a hole measuring 0.181-inches. The BB cartridge hole measures 0.175-inches. So, that is a definite difference.
Problems loading?
Reader SigPig said he has a problem loading the pellet cartridges with his revolver. He says the BB cartridges work fine but the pellet cartridges seem too small to accept pellets. If I encounter this I will highlight it for you.
Let’s go!
Well that’s enough background. Let’s start the velocity test. Looking at the velocities we got from BBs (430+ for the standard premium steel BBs), I think we want to stick with the lighter pellets. I will select several lead pellets and a lead-free pellet to test.
RWS Hobby
The first pellet I tested was the RWS Hobby. This is a lead wadcutter that weighs 7 grains and is the standard for lead pellet velocity tests.
I was confused
The first shot went out at 342 f.p.s. Shot two was 391 f.p.s. Shot three was 396 and then shot 4 was 328 f.p.s. I finished that string but what was going on? I initially thought it was the amount of time I took between each shot — that the revolver was cooling down extra fast, because I was waiting 15-20 seconds between all shots. So I decided to try something. I would wait a full minute between each shot for a string of three and then I would only wait 10 seconds for the final three.
That almost worked. Look at what happened.
Shot..…….Velocity
1……………396
2……………400
3……………368 now switch to a shot every 10 seconds
4……………369
5……………351
6……………303
Does that make any sense to you? Because it doesn’t to me. Well, maybe a little, because shots 5 and 6 were slower. Shot 6 was much slower. But it didn’t make much sense — until I thought about what reader SigPig said about the pellet cartridges with his gun loading hard. The ones I am testing loaded easily with all the pellets, but was one of them a little tighter than the rest? Looking at my chronograph data I determined which one it might be and removed it from the gun. Then I marked its base and rim with a Sharpie pen so I could see it without opening the loading gate.
I marked the rim and base of the suspect cartridge with a Sharpie.
It’s just as easy to load the revolver through the loading gate, one cartridge at a time.
Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
Now I was ready to test my theory of whether that one cartridge was tight. The second pellet I tested was the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellet. Weighing just 5.25-grains, this lead-free pellet is the lightest one I tested. Let’s look at the string, with 30 second between each shot.
Shot..…….Velocity
1……………418
2……………408
3……………390
4……………400
5……………395 and shot 6 is the suspect cartridge
6……………292
Well, that was pretty convincing! But I needed more proof, so I switched to Falcons for another try.
Air Arms Falcon
The last pellet I tried was the Air Arms Falcon dome. It’s light, but at 7.33-grains not as light as the Hobby. I’m still suspecting that one cartridge, so let’s do the same test again. I began shooting with one minute between shots
Shot..…….Velocity
1……………356
2……………346
3……………322 after this I paused just 10 seconds between shots
4……………350
5……………340 and now the suspect cartridge
6……………298
Maybe not as big a difference as before, but a difference just the same. Next, I shot the same Falcon pellet with 10 seconds between all the shots.
Shot..…….Velocity
1……………345
2……………342
3……………317
4……………350
5……………342 and now the suspect cartridge
6……………326
That string kind of wrecked my hypothesis. Unless, by shooting, that bad cartridge was breaking in.
At this point in the test 31 shots had been fired on the CO2 cartridge. I continued shooting until there were 56 shots on the cartridge, then I broke for an hour. When I returned — here was the first string of Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets. Ten seconds between all shots.
Shot..…….Velocity
57…………..367
58…………..394
59…………..385
60…………..382
61…………..378 and now the suspect cartridge
62…………..378
63…………..345
64…………..did not register
65…………..350
66…………..345
67…………..343 and now the suspect cartridge
68…………..poof Gun fired by no pellet came out — try again
69…………..poof Gun fired by no pellet came out — try again
70…………..285 this was with the suspect cartridge
Now a five-minute interval while I typed and loaded the gun again. Then I resumed — still 10 seconds between shots.
71…………..291
72…………..290
73…………..311
74…………..291
75…………..285 and now the suspect cartridge
76…………..poof — try again
77…………..poof — try again
78…………..poof — try again
79…………..poof
And that’s where I stopped the test. There is still gas in the gun and you Scotsmen will no doubt continue shooting for a while. But it won’t be very long. And the suspect cartridge needs to be removed from the rotation — its days are over at this point.
Learned something
Today was a good test and I believe we learned something. These cartridges are not all identical and, if you have problems, they are a good place to start looking.
The 1875 revolver has plenty of power for pellets as long as they are the lighter ones.
Shot count
Looking back at Part 2 I see that I didn’t give you a shot count for the BBs. It’s probably exactly the same as today’s, which is somewhere between 70 shots and a stuck pellet around shot 90.
Summary
I’m so glad I took the time to test BBs and pellets separately. That allowed me to concentrate on the performance of the gun which afforded us a lot more insight into how this air pistol really functions.
I will also test accuracy on different days, because I think the pellets will be shot from farther away. This is turning into a wonderful test!
Everyone,
Good morning! Is everyone sleeping late today! 😉
B.B.
BB
Don’t know how it’s been down there in Texas today. But up here in Illinois we have been getting a bunch of rain and storms the last several days. I know today that some people at work have thier power out. Maybe that has something to do with it?
We’re across the river in SE Iowa and last night was the first in a few we didn’t get rain.Had 3″ the night before .There is water everywhere! The yard was squishy even on the high side between the deck and my clangers. On the subject of that rogue cartridge , you might try it with a BB. I’m guessing it will work fine. Or can you put the pellet in the front of the cartridge instead of the back .
Rk,
I might just do that. Thanks!
B.B.
Rk
Yep we had flash floods warnings last night.
GF1,
Thanks. I hand’t considered that.
B.B.
BB
No problem. The weather has been crazy lately I do know that.
Gunfun1,
Up here in the Chicago suburbs it’s been thunderstorms for a few hours, bright sunlight for a few hours, and back and forth like that. It is really strange. At night it always seems to be raining when I make my 3:00 AM trip down the hall. And yes, our power went out briefly two nights ago.
I’ve heard farmers around here have had a tough time getting into their fields to keep to their planting schedules, and (far less important) my yard work and backyard plinking time has been shortened considerably compared to previous years.
Michael
Michael
It took the farmer 5 days to get the fields planted behind my house because of the rain. It usually takes him 2-3 days.
I’m surprised he even plowed as wet as it was. But he’s got one of those big all wheel drive tractors that swivel in the middle.
I will say that he did have all the tires spinning when he was plowing the hills out in the field. Was kind of cool to watch this year. All I know is his tractor is s bad boy.
I’m up. The sun’s not.
Thanks for the report B.B.
I must have quite a few of the tight pellet cartridges. I have found that if I seat the pellets a couple mm below flush that they are easier to coax out of the gun when firing.
I have been using the 7 grain RWS MeisterKugeln Wadcutters. I have some 5.2 grains that I could give a try.
Failing that, I can just stick to using bb’s as it shoots those just fine.
SigPig,
We shall see! Thanks for telling us about your experience with this gun.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wondering if it would be possible to use some fine emery cloth rolled up to remove a bit of the synthetic material which apparently is gripping the pellet too tightly? Or, maybe using something like a Patchworm cleaning tool with a piece of fine emery cloth on it instead of a patch. Just some thoughts.
Geo
SigPig
If your DPMS mag still leaks into the right cartridge space just leave an empty one in there. Tighten it up just before you insert and pierce the left one. Beats losing CO2 trying to tighten a full one before it leaks out. Just make sure you loosen it up some to save the seal when your done shooting.
Less shots but less waste.
There must be some sort of sliding plug that gets stuck in there and fails to block it off ?
Bob M
Bob
I got my Daisy Winchester M14 yesterday. I’m getting ready to take it out of the box here in a few minutes.
And already got the parts to convert it over to a tethered Air Venturi 13 cubic inch regulated hpa bottle.
Going to shoot it first with the open peeps. But next PA order I’m getting the Air Venturi scope mount for it.
Just thought I would mention it to you. I know you like the military guns. Have you had one of them? If so what do you think about them? And if anyone else has had one I would like to know what they think also.
Gunfun1,
I LOVE killing pop cans with mine! The Daisy/Winchester M14 has “Gunfun1” written all over it, I suspect. I have no idea how accurate it is or isn’t, but it is a blast in a back yard. I intend to sometime remove the brick-a-brack around that long barrel and putting some sort of full-length “moderating influence” on it.
You will love it.
Michael
Michael
What pellets you use? Or bb’s?
But no bb’s for mine. Can’t bring myself to try bb’s in it. What’s the saying. Don’t want to mess up a good thing.
And this may sound crazy but it equals the performance of my .177 HW30s with the peep sight on it. It really is a shooter. Sorry to say but it’s hitting better than my WildFire and 1077.
If I got a accurate one I’m grateful. If they all are like this one then I’m thankful. 🙂
GF1,
I have used pellets only, probably Hobbies or RWS Basics or Club pellets, the cheaper the better.
Michael
Michael.
With you there on cheap pellets. Especially with a semi-auto.
And even more of a benefit if they are accurate. 🙂
Excellent idea Bob. I had thought of that only after writing everything out and hitting the post comment button. Funny how that works.
I don’t have a chrono but the reports I have read is that the fps is the same on one CO2 as it is on two.
Thanks again.
BB
It’s still yesterday for me about 3:30 in my night ! One of those night persons and probably why most of my posts are at the end of a blog or the beginning, at night. Had three brush fires here today, highly unusual for a wet season. Arson?
I have a pair of these but I think the Colt SAA’s and Scofield’s have taken the wind out of this Remington’s sales.
Same type of pistol action, different shape basically and its all been covered already except for the technicalities.
Perhaps it’s the conclusion that they failed in the replica looks department with all that print on it.
But I guess you could say that about a lot of airguns, especially the 45’s and break barrels and yes PCP’s but it always gets interesting.
Mine are put away but could you see if the centering cone sits on a cartridge or the cylinder? … or some of both?May have a lot to do with accuracy now that we are investigating magazines / cartridges these days. I remember seeing a few cartridges in the early days that we countersunk to avoid keeping the forcing cone from seating. On which I don’t know. Evidently they were too long?
I would imagine it’s more preferable to seat on a cartridge rather than have a wobbly one in the cylinder. But … maybe the cone just forces the bb or pellet alone to align with the barrel?
Bob,
The cone rests against the cartridge, so length is an issue.
B.B.
BB
Makes sense. I also noticed that some cartridge castings were not all that precision engineered early on so perhaps the countersinking helped with air leaks there as well as alignment.
Bob M
B.B.,
I find it noteworthy that these replicas of single action revolvers (except for the Schofield) provide little incentive to purchase extra cartridges due to their being more convenient to load pellet-to-inserted cartridge rather than ejecting empties and loading “pelleted” cartridges.
It is also interesting that two blogs in a row discuss differences in clips, chambers or cartridges producing variations in shooting performance.
Michael
Michael,
Chambers do make a difference. When I had the chamber of my Ruger 10/22 firearm reduced to target specs it shaved a half-inch off my 50 yard 10-shot groups.
B.B.
B.B. and Gunfun1,
It’s enough to make a guy go single-shot (or at least bolt-action).
Michael
Michael
Maybe so.
But good news on my Daisy M14. It shoots very nice. It has a 8 round clip on each end of the mag which is 16 shots per mag. And yep I’m ordering more mags.
I got to compare it to a Benjamin WildFire. Well when I tether my WildFire with the Air Venturi regulated HPA bottle.
The factory peep sights are very adjustable and very easy to pick up on targets. And the trigger is great. It feels like the trigger on my WildFire after I modified it. It’s light and breaks very nice. But I bought this gun used. So maybe the previous owner modified the trigger. I don’t know.
But I can hit the corner of a 12 oz. feral can at 30 yards and send it spinning. And that’s standing unsupported.
Oh and that’s with the Winchester round nose pellets. Tryed other pellets but it likes the Winchester’s. And all the different pellets I tryed fit the clip holes pretty snug.
And I think with accuracy it’s how the hole in the clip or mag lines up with the barrel bore with our pellet guns rather than how a hole in a clips diameter is sized. Well I guess it all stacks up and can make problems.
Anyway happy with the Daisy M14. To bad they stopped making them too.
Gunfun1,
First, please read my response to your post above.
Second, they discontinued them? Oh, Man. They must have been too much fun to keep on the market. The trigger on mine is O.K. Not great, not lousy, but O.K. The only problem I have, and I have them with all of those 8×2 clips, is that one out of perhaps five shots the pellet refuses to get out of the chamber. If I remember next time, I’ll try lubing the pellets first.
Michael
Michael
I replied above.
And happy to say not even a hint of missfire. Mine feeds good. And got to mention again. Mines on regulated hpa. And it hits hard. Definitely harder than my WildFire on the regulated hpa bottle.
And what is funny is the rotory 8 round clip on each end of the mag resembles a mini 1077 clip but one more added thing. It has the lines in the holes that grab the pellet and keep it located like the 1077 clips. Plus where the skirt seats it has just a little bigger diameter there The 1077 clips don’t have that. Maybe helps with the skirt some way with the pellet in the M14?
And here is what I find that usually tells the truth about if a gun is available or not anymore. Other websites just say the guns out of stock.
/product/winchester-m14-co2-air-rifle?m=2719
And my M14 is used. Sorry but maybe it’s loosened up in respect to the mag and clip and I guess barrel and trigger. But seriously it’s like someone opened the box it came in and never removed it. It’s spotless clean.
And yes it’s got semi-auto Gunfun1 written all over it. For sure. 🙂
GF1,
The HPA would be enough to make a difference with pellets not being duds. With CO2, on the other hand, I have that problem not just with the 8×2 clips of my M4 (yes, M4 — I goofed above) but those I use in my two Gamo PT-85s as well.
Also discontinued: /product/winchester-mp4-co2-rifle?m=3284
Michael
Michael l
Ok M4 not M14. Bet they use the same innards though.
And from what I have seen is how it hits the pellet harder than Co2 does in the same gun. So yep maybe the skirt of the pellet is expanding better on HPA than Co2. Probably makes some difference.
Michael
Yes it’s got to make a difference. The trick with clips, mags and cartridges is consistency in size from one to the next.
My Savage 93 .22 rim fire has a nice chamber size. It’s real accurate if I measure case diameters and rim thickness. Yes in other words sort my cases.
Now on the other hand my old Winchester 190 is getting wore out in the chamber area. I shot alot of high velocity rounds through it over time and it shows it. Some cases are a bit loose nowdays when I see how they fit. Oh well that’s what it’s all about. Shooting fun. It’s going to wear something out sooner or later. 🙂
Gunfun1,
I suppose some very particular shooters buy a lot of mags and then sort them. When my mom went back to work, she would buy all her clothes by catalog in three sizes, planning ahead to send two of everything back.
Michael
Michael
And read my comment above to you.
With firearms I think cartridge size makes a big difference.
With our pellet guns I think it’s clip and magazine hole alignment to the guns barrel is probably what kills accuracy with them.
B.B.
It is intriguing that one cartridge acts different. Do you suspect a restriction inside or alignment? I would guess the first, as the second would follow the chamber more than the cartridge.
Not totally related, but it reminds me of one time at a range when, during a break, we were chatting with the guy in the next stall. He was inexperienced and very disappointed about about the poor accuracy of an 6″ 38 Special revolver he had just bought. He asked me to try it and see what was going on, suspecting that it was just his fault. I shot half a cylinder before I realized that the thing had really bad timing – the misalignment made it shave the bullets spraying considerable amount of lead sideways from at least one of the chambers. I told him it was dangerous to use, to box it and either return it to the seller or have a good gunsmith take a look at it. At the same time, I realized how useful where the small partitions between stalls. A good reminder about safety.
Henry
Henry,
I suspect a restriction, as well. But from all our conversations I’m coming to realize there is so much to these guns that I’m not aware of. I guess like everyone, I’m still learning.
B.B.
BB
Can’t swear to it but I think I remember seeing some casting material intruding into the cartridge opening at the tip on some. Hay, that may be why they took a countersink to some to clean it up?
Bob M
Guys,
Check this video out from American Airguner at the 2019 IWA show. These Chinese airguns are over the top crazy! I would never be interested in anything like these but it is interesting, even laughable, the airguns this company is making. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvl4puyJHHs&feature=em-uploademail
Geo791
Boy, I really wish I had never seen that video. Now I need to look into those a lot more !
Geo,
LOL! You always find the best things! 🙂 That is some awesome stuff. I like their innovation and take no prisoner’s approach.
Keep the jewel’s coming, as I sure do not have the time to ferret them out myself.
Chris
Chris USA
May be possible they are a manufacturer of precision aircraft parts as well. The name pops up and that would be very comforting to know.
GF1 & Michael
The mags work better in the Winchester M14 compared to the Winchester M4.
Very nice rifle, good smooth trigger and good accuracy. It is made of plastic unfortunately and light so I added a little weight. Cant ever have a simple Airgun 🙂 Never got around to trying to installing it in an old M14 fiberglass stock.
As you may know it has no provisions for a scope or bipod …. right !
Bob M
Bob,
That looks sweet!
Michael
Michael
That forward rail system is from a plastic spring powered Airsoft M14 with some slight modification and the rear scope mount rail is a standard M14 aluminum dovetail mount I had to shim a little with aluminum tape.
Not the most rugged set up with all that plastic and it should use a sighting device on the lighter side to avoid any problems. That heavy scope works fine but it was just laying around wanting to be in a photo shoot!
Bob
Cool picture and cool gun.
And PA still sells these.
/product/air-venturi-m14-scope-mount-system?a=7774
And I’m keeping mine unscoped. I like the factory peep sight. My M14 is shooting surprisingly well. Definitely happy I got it.
GF1
Thanks for the info !
I know about that M14 mount but never figured it was made for a plastic bb rifle. Rugged airsoft yes.
Read some reviews and it is not really made for this rifle but evidently it can be played with to make it fit. Sounds like it was made to real M14 specs. My rear dovetailed rail mount had to be shimmed too. I screwed the forward tri rail down to stiffen it up.
Bob
My M14 has the front hole drilled and tapped but I would have to drill and tap a place for the back hole.
At least there is a option if a person wanted to scope the Daisy Winchester M14.
Michael
Found a surprise today with my Daisy Winchester M14.
Don’t know how I didn’t catch it. Well I do know how. On the right side of the barrel there is lettering similar to how Crosman/Benjamin I guess they call it lazer engraving. Kind of a bronze colored lettering. But I saw “Made In ….”. Which I thought said “Made In China”.
But to my surprise it says “Made In Japan”.
I think this is my first Japanese made air gun I have owned. But then again maybe that sniper air soft gun I had was made in Japan. I never paid attention when I had it.
Maybe that’s why this M14 is so accurate. But maybe not though. Maybe just coincidence. But thought that it was cool that it’s made in Japan.
GF1,
And now, I have lived long enough to know that I have lived too long! 😉
In my day, Made in Japan was the worst insult a product could receive!
B.B.
BB
I know. Right.
Same when I was younger.
But check out the Honda car brand as well as the Acura brand.
They are definitely top sellers these days. They are nice vehicles and made with quality and dependability. I’m surprised I haven’t owned one of those 2 brands yet.
Who would of thought that back then.
BB and GF1,
Wow, nice trip back in history. As I recall, at the time they definitely earned that insult. The first one and two transistor radios didn’t even have a speaker – you had to use an earphone. And the body was something like tin. (Allen Sherman’s 12 days of Christmas). I also remember school fairs and festivals where almost all the prizes were some little cheap made (Japanese) trinket like the little bobbing skeletons around Halloween.
Larry from Algona
Larry
Yep I remember those little skeletons and such.
Heck they didn’t even remove all the flash that was left from the molds.
Wonder how much it actually cost then to make that stuff back then. Then what they sold them for and how much it costed to get over here.
And look how many years it’s taken for China to finally start getting somewhere. What about 40 or 50 years behind Japan to say the least.
B.B.,
I remember those days, too. Japan did a lot of design-copying in the 1950s and 1960s, making lower-quality knockoffs of European and American products.
But in the 1970s and 1980s Japan started making products (automobiles and guitars come immediately to my mind as excellent examples of this, as do motorcycles) that were far superior to most European and especially American products, which had at the same time began to suffer in quality. As an American I am ashamed, but it is the truth. I love my country dearly, but we got complacent and lazy.
In the 1950s and early 1960s Detroit and continental Europe made the best quality cars in the world by far, but in the early 1970s through the mid 1980s, they made utter junk. At the same time Detroit was making the Ford Fiesta and Chevy Chevette, Japan was making the Honda Civic and Toyota Camry. My wife had a 1990 Honda Civic made in Japan and I had a 1991 Honda Civic assembled in Marysville, Ohio. Her Japanese Honda was incredibly well made and lasted for over 200K miles. My American Honda died from poor workmanship after 87K miles.
Iconic American guitar brands Fender, Gibson, and Martin made junk in the 1970s and early 1980s while Yamaha and Ibanez were making some of the best guitars in the world. (Fender, Gibson and Martin recovered in quality since then, although Gibson went back to making some junk in their offerings eventually.)
How were 1970s Harley-Davidsons and Triumphs compared to 1970s Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasakis and Hondas?
Michael
Michael,
I owned one of the first 4-stroke Yamaha motorcycles in 1970. That thing was a jewel compared to Harleys and Triumphs and BSAs. Those Harleys and English bikes vibrated so badly that the screws and bolts would continually loosen. The guys had to check them all the time or they might lose a taillight or something. I remember taking a tour of the Harley Davidson plant in Milwaukee, Wisconsin back in the early 70s. The tour guide was an old guy who must have worked for HD for a very long time. There were two state policemen on the same tour as us and they had ridden in on Honda Gold Wings. They gave that poor old guy the raspberries all the way through the tour. The technology of that plant looked like something from the stone ages. I rode with some guys who rode Harleys and Triumphs and they were always breaking down it seemed.
If you want a bike that makes a lot of noise, buy a Harley. If you want a dependable, quiet, smooth ride, buy a Honda Gold Wing or Interstate. Of course, be ready to spend $30k for it too. They have six cylinder engines over 1800cc, bigger than many of the cars today.
BB
Just had a pleasant surprise. While digging one of my M14 air rifles out of a storage locker for the photo above I came across a soft rifle case and just opened it a little to see which rifle was in it …. A hooded front sight and a bright blued barrel, what was my RWS 350 Magnum doing in there? Should be in it’s original box.
Turned out to be a 22cal Tec Force Contender Series Model 89. I totally forgot I had it. Ten years ago I got it and for some reason I never shot it. Just packed it away for a move or something and life moved on.
Just read your multi part blog on it back in 2011 and I believe I have the early blued edition. Very handsome rifle.
I read another report on it and it said it gets even better once broken in, as you suspected.
Believe I got it from Compasseco back then. Perhaps on sale before they were bought out by P/A and it may have been a spur of the moment unplanned purchase so it was not received with lots of anticipation.
Just think as we get older and memories start to fail we may find lots of Airguns we forgot we owned !
Boy the names do come and go on this blog over time. Makes you wonder which ones are in airgun heaven, aside from the obvious loved one.
Bob M
GF1 and BB
No one has to sell me on Japanese quality when it comes to airguns. I have owned for several years a Sharp Innova in .177 made in Japan. Its strictly utilitarian in appearance but its all business when it comes to power and accuracy. Its a multi pump that can exceed 1000 fps with 8-10 pumps (lead pellets). And one hole groups at 10 meters with the right pellets.Its got a “blow-off” valve design instead of the usual spring loaded hammer strike like most pump ups have. If I remember correctly I bought it from Great Lakes Airguns (long gone). The gun is approx.the size and weight of the old Benji 312-317 series guns. When it comes to quality cars, motorcycles, and guns, I have no qualms with the Japanese. They have nothing left to prove.